The Living Soldering Thread

[PointyFox]

There's more about cutting hard wire in this thread:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48585.0

[mkawa]

conclusion: hard wire sucks to cut

[PointyFox]

conclusion: hard wire sucks to cut

I had two pairs of hard wire cutters I used for years on medical wire. 

Keiba power max cutters and Excelta tungsten carbide cutters.

Both are very good.  The wire diameter limit on the Exceltas I used was 0.020''
I used the Keiba for up to 0.045'' wire. The Exceltas keep their edge and are good for small wire.  The Keibas get chewed up slightly but continue to work on larger wire ~0.016'' and up.

[mkawa]

have you tried the tronex carbides? the class W full carbides can only do up to 28ga, but the class T brazed-head carbides can do up to 0.02. i've heard extremely good things about them.

[stancato9]

Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks

[riotonthebay]

Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks

I'd recommend mkawa's soldering kit.

[stancato9]

Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks

I'd recommend mkawa's soldering kit.

Maybe I should have said a "budget" soldering station. While mkawa's kit is very nice, it's far out of my price range.

I don't need all the bells and whistles. Just a decent iron and pump to start.

[riotonthebay]

Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks

I'd recommend mkawa's soldering kit.

Maybe I should have said a "budget" soldering station. While mkawa's kit is very nice, it's far out of my price range.

I don't need all the bells and whistles. Just a decent iron and pump to start.

Ming will sell the iron and pump from the kit separately. I believe it will be less than $80. I also think this will save you money in the long run, or even the medium run. Bad irons will ruin PCBs and bad solder suckers will break.

[mkawa]

the BYO holder option reduces the kit price significantly (to 130). you can get iron holders which are not as fancy or as safe but are much cheaper for 5-6$ at electronics surplus shops. there's not a whole lot else you can remove from the kit before it becomes a BYO everything kit.

although if you don't want the iron, check out the soldering accessories GB

[tjcaustin]

Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks

I'd recommend mkawa's soldering kit.

Maybe I should have said a "budget" soldering station. While mkawa's kit is very nice, it's far out of my price range.

I don't need all the bells and whistles. Just a decent iron and pump to start.

Via OP - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481-K

Just iron and pump cost approximately $80.

From there, maybe look for a used 888d and a new soldapullt as any of the options that come to my mind are cheap because they aren't good.

Additionally, you have a PM.

[Kayliss]

I've had my JBC CD-2BC for a little while now and have got quite alot of use out of it so far. As far as I'm concerned it was a great choice, absolutely rock solid so far.

The small handle is nice to use, it's been a huge relief for me. As far as real use, everything from 0603's to Lipo battery packs for high power RC cars has been a breeze. I picked up a couple of different cartridges/tips to suit what I'm doing and so far I haven't been left wanting in that regard. I thought the quick change tips were a bit gimmicky at first, but in use it's very helpful, it's something I wouldn't go back to a station without.

If I had the choice again I'd still get the JBC, I'd really like to try a Ersa station though.

[mkawa]

can't argue with experience. glad you like your station. the ersa's look like _very_ nice stations fwiw. i think i mentioned this earlier when komar was talking about his search for a station that could be purchased locally.

ersa looks like a mostly european brand though, as i haven't seen a lot of 115v versions easily available in the US.

also i want to mention that the soldering GB kit is supposed to be a step up from the edsyn bundle (which i can't offer for less than edsyn. it's their thing). if you're budget limited i do highly recommend the edsyn bundles with the cl1481. i tried to add a bit more convenience and safety to my kit with the holder, the kester 44, the larger augmented DS017GH soldapullt, the full set of tips, etc.

my margins are quite low on my kit, and the edsyn's margins are even lower on their kit. i talked about it with my edsyn rep and our goals are exactly the same. we're both just trying to provide good gear for learning to solder without discouraging people. hard to go wrong with either kit. we've both thought pretty hard about what to put in and what to leave out at our given price points.

[Melvang]

Alright so I have done a bit of soldering on different boards including, Cherry switches, diodes, desoldering both, bypassing traces to rotate a switch on the factory PCB, and desoldered a teensy from a phantom (now that was a freakin pain in the ass).  My question is this.  Is it really that difficult to hand solder SMD diodes?  I have a weller iron with 1-5 scale and a 1.6mm chisel tip.

[Photekq]

Alright so I have done a bit of soldering on different boards including, Cherry switches, diodes, desoldering both, bypassing traces to rotate a switch on the factory PCB, and desoldered a teensy from a phantom (now that was a freakin pain in the ass).  My question is this.  Is it really that difficult to hand solder SMD diodes?  I have a weller iron with 1-5 scale and a 1.6mm chisel tip.

It's pretty easy with a 1.6mm tip. Just tack one side down with solder, solder the other side, then redo both joints to make sure they're good. Tacky flux is helpful

[Melvang]

Alright so I have done a bit of soldering on different boards including, Cherry switches, diodes, desoldering both, bypassing traces to rotate a switch on the factory PCB, and desoldered a teensy from a phantom (now that was a freakin pain in the ass).  My question is this.  Is it really that difficult to hand solder SMD diodes?  I have a weller iron with 1-5 scale and a 1.6mm chisel tip.

It's pretty easy with a 1.6mm tip. Just tack one side down with solder, solder the other side, then redo both joints to make sure they're good. Tacky flux is helpful

Thanks photekq.  So for this I would want flux in addition to flux core solder?  I was thinking add some solder to one pad, place with tweezers, add flux, heat to flow, hole till cooled, then solder the other side.

[Photekq]

So for this I would want flux in addition to flux core solder?

Yeah, flux will be very helpful. I found that tacky flux is a lot better than liquid flux for this (as well as most other SMD stuff).

I was thinking add some solder to one pad, place with tweezers, add flux, heat to flow, hole till cooled, then solder the other side.

You could do this, but I'd then add flux to both sides once soldered and heat to flow once more to make sure the joints are good. I did a method like this to begin with and it worked fine, but I found the method I described earlier to be better.

[Photoelectric]

Please help me figure this out.  I'm trying to add an LED to the underside of a PCB, attaching it in parallel to another LED. 

Trouble is, I can't get good contact.  The in-switch LED works fine, but the LED I attach underneath does not light up.  It seems like the only way to make it light up is to make contact with the ringed pads on the PCB -- not with the in-switch LED pins.  I thought the whole soldered "mound" was supposed to be conductive... why can I not get continuity?  I've even used copious amounts of flux trying to get a clean connection, and pressed the second LED leads as close against the first and the ring as possible (though the rings are TINY, so it's near impossible)  after normal amount of flux in Kester 44 did not seem to do it.  I've tried reflowing a few times, and getting all LED pins as close to each other as possible.

Here's what I'm talking about:



(the scary looking orange-brown stuff is rosin flux)

I can insert 2 LEDs into the same switch LED holes without soldering, and both light up when I touch the pins to the ring-pads.  But once I solder one LED and try to attach another... no go.  Must be some wire-connecting magic I'm missing.  (Yes, I've tinned the ends of the LED I'm trying to attach at the bottom).

P.S.: the negative LED lead is not touching the ring pad to the left--it just looks like it does from above.

[SpAmRaY]

Seems like I remember someone saying too much heat will kill an LED..just a thought....

And your sure you've got the positive and negative oriented correctly?

[Photoelectric]

Yes.  Also I've already tried this with 2 LEDs.  I can desolder and test if it still works, just in case.

EDIT: just removed it and tested--LED works perfectly.

And this is the area that I've just cleaned up.

[doub]

When you solder it in the right orientation, does the LED on the other side of the PCB stop working? Do you have the datasheet for the working LED and the one you're trying to attach?

[Photoelectric]

No, I've already tested that I can have up to 2 LEDs in the same switch, glowing at the ~same visual intensity.  Both light up until I do the soldering.  Yes, the orientation is correct.  To make them light up, I have to touch the ringed pads on the PCB at the same time.  But now that the in-switch LEDs have been soldered in and I'm adding another LED underneath afterwards, I can't establish a proper electrical connection between the ring pads and the second LED.  That's what I need to figure out.  What am I doing wrong in a technical sense that there's no or not enough current flowing to the other LED? 

I tinned the ends of the unattached LED, heated both the leads and the pins of the previously soldered in-switch LED, and added some solder (and later also additional flux).  My best guess is that the LED pins of the bulb I'm attaching from underneath don't actually make physical contact with the ring, but I thought that having a clean layer of solder between the two would be sufficient to bridge that connection.

[Photoelectric]

Ha, thanks to dorkvader, the issue has been resolved.  Turns out I forgot to check that the LEDs I'm adding have the same forward voltage than the ones I'm attaching them TO.  The answer is, they don't   The additional LEDs work fine now when I attach them to the number-row in-switch LEDs, which are identical (and thus have the same Vf).

[AKmalamute]

Well, I just found out what a lifted pad looks like O.o

Somewhere I thought I got the impression that it was caused by overzealous solder-suckering. So I was careful to remove solder at a steep angle relative to the board, and when I couldn't see any more solder I got a flat screwdriver and pushed down on the switch's stabilizing plastic center pin while moving the iron back & forth between the connector pins to keep any remaining solder liquid.

 One of the pins came out clean.

LMGTFY and oh, yes, lifted pads are associated with solder-suckers, just not in the way I had thought.

It's all good, though because I think just maybe there was a problem with the board ... I ended up jumpering the new vintage-black's pins to the ISO pads just to one side, which had always worked in aquakeys + tweezers, even when fiddling with adding more solder to the existing switch never did anything. Yes, same switch location but I couldn't get the "official" one to work but the other one did. //shrug

one more key wasn't responding but I think it was just because I was a little too skimpy with solder when attaching through-hole diodes. Added solder to the diode from the bottom and now ALL the keys on my phantom work.

MY FIRST KEYBOARD, DONE!

Now I just need a case for the thing o.O   (Ergodox, here I come!)

[Photoelectric]

Woot, all done!

Adding LEDs to the underside of an A87 PS2AVR PCB (in a GON case).  Had to sacrifice a USB cable for some sleeved wires:


(white is signal, black is ground)



Artsy shot:


Taped in place:


Done! (looks better and brighter  in person)

[Sifo]

Woot, all done!

Adding LEDs to the underside of an A87 PS2AVR PCB (in a GON case).  Had to sacrifice a USB cable for some sleeved wires:

Show Image

(white is signal, black is ground)

Show Image

Artsy shot:

Show Image

Taped in place:

Show Image

Done! (looks better and brighter  in person)

Show Image

Glad you  got it to work

[Dreamre]

Does anyone have experience with solder not being able to be sucked up? I'm using a sulapullit and I have experience soldering with 3 boards and this one is being extremely stubborn...I'm not sure what I should do.

[Melvang]

Does anyone have experience with solder not being able to be sucked up? I'm using a sulapullit and I have experience soldering with 3 boards and this one is being extremely stubborn...I'm not sure what I should do.

Plated through holes are a lot more stubborn, this is what they do with multi layered boards.  It is more of a pain because the solder will stick to any of the copper that is hot and there is copper going all the way to the other side of the PCB.  Plus lead free solder is a pain to begin with.  if you don't get it the first shot add some back to it, let it cool, and try again.  Just don't add to much.  You don't want more in there the second time than the first time.

[Melvang]

Sorry about the double post but it has been a few days.  But I have a quick question.

Can someone recommend a good pair of wire strippers for small stuff.  I was thinking for wires hopefully down to about 26 or 28 gauge.

[SpAmRaY]

Sorry about the double post but it has been a few days.  But I have a quick question.

Can someone recommend a good pair of wire strippers for small stuff.  I was thinking for wires hopefully down to about 26 or 28 gauge.

nubbinator recommended these http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006962E7G here -> http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44924.0

I'm considering getting some but for now I used a pair of flush cutters and squeezed gently and pull.

[Thechemist]

Does anyone have experience with solder not being able to be sucked up? I'm using a sulapullit and I have experience soldering with 3 boards and this one is being extremely stubborn...I'm not sure what I should do.

Flow some new solder and then suck it up.

[tgujay]

Woot, all done!

Adding LEDs to the underside of an A87 PS2AVR PCB (in a GON case).  Had to sacrifice a USB cable for some sleeved wires:

Show Image

(white is signal, black is ground)

Show Image

Artsy shot:

Show Image

Taped in place:

Show Image

Done! (looks better and brighter  in person)

Show Image

Show Image

It's so beautiful.

[mkawa]

these are my favorite budget strippers: http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-Communications-22-10-Strippers-Bundle/dp/B000X4X23U/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1394833546&sr=8-4&keywords=paladin+wire+stripper

you can also get them separately if you don't strip 26ga cable. note that greenlee = paladin.

eventually, you're going to kill those strippers, and you're going to need something with replaceable blades. when you get to that point, buy a stripax. the basic design is from a german company: weidemuller, but greenlee has the rights to the US market and packages it a little differently. here's the greenlee version. notice that it has a blade that's fine enough for 28ga. since the blades are replaceable, that's just the blade they pack with the thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Paladin-1113-Stripax-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B0006BHCFO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1394833546&sr=8-3&keywords=paladin+wire+stripper

however, you can get the weidemeier version in the US, but weidemuller packages it with a slightly coarser blade:

http://www.newark.com/weidmuller/stripax-0-8-10mm/wire-stripper-0-8-6mm/dp/24M7939

this blade is only rated down to 20ga. another blade is like 30 bucks, so i tend to recommend the paladin version. there is a slight difference in ergonomics between the weidemuller and the greenlee, because weidemuller is technically a generation ahead, but the only difference is replaceable handles for comfort, so that's the tradeoff. regardless, the stripax is THE wire stripper. once you've used one, you will never go back to any other wire stripper design. it's just a brilliantly designed little thing.

[tjcaustin]

these are my favorite budget strippers: http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-Communications-22-10-Strippers-Bundle/dp/B000X4X23U/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1394833546&sr=8-4&keywords=paladin+wire+stripper

you can also get them separately if you don't strip 26ga cable. note that greenlee = paladin.

eventually, you're going to kill those strippers, and you're going to need something with replaceable blades. when you get to that point, buy a stripax. the basic design is from a german company: weidemuller, but greenlee has the rights to the US market and packages it a little differently. here's the greenlee version. notice that it has a blade that's fine enough for 28ga. since the blades are replaceable, that's just the blade they pack with the thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Paladin-1113-Stripax-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B0006BHCFO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1394833546&sr=8-3&keywords=paladin+wire+stripper

however, you can get the weidemeier version in the US, but weidemuller packages it with a slightly coarser blade:

http://www.newark.com/weidmuller/stripax-0-8-10mm/wire-stripper-0-8-6mm/dp/24M7939

this blade is only rated down to 20ga. another blade is like 30 bucks, so i tend to recommend the paladin version. there is a slight difference in ergonomics between the weidemuller and the greenlee, because weidemuller is technically a generation ahead, but the only difference is replaceable handles for comfort, so that's the tradeoff. regardless, the stripax is THE wire stripper. once you've used one, you will never go back to any other wire stripper design. it's just a brilliantly designed little thing.

^ What I use daily.  I think I've used it to strip around 2000 times since I got it and I still haven't seen it do anything but a clean cut assuming I don't derp the set up.

[Pacifist]

How safe is it to solder indoors? Would the fumes require good ventilation?

[Photekq]

How safe is it to solder indoors? Would the fumes require good ventilation?

I solder in my room with just a USB fan blowing over the area.

[BlueBär]

I use a DIY solder fume sucker with two PC case fans and some charcoal absorber in front of the fans. Works great!

[HPE1000]

I solder near a window with a desk fan going, although my room smells terrible after I am done lol

[BlueBär]

I solder near a window with a desk fan going, although my room smells terrible after I am done lol

I did that before as well, but in winter that wasn't really an option so I had to get creative. With my DIY thing there is no smell at all afterwards, so I can really recommend it.

[HPE1000]

I solder near a window with a desk fan going, although my room smells terrible after I am done lol

I did that before as well, but in winter that wasn't really an option so I had to get creative. With my DIY thing there is no smell at all afterwards, so I can really recommend it.

I know, it doesn't get that cold here so that isn't a problem for me

If I soldered frequently I would have to make something though.

[Dreamre]

I'm looking to buying some solder, but I'm confused between solder and lead-free solder. From a health perspective, is the lead-free one considerably better? Or are they just equally as bad? Also, what do you guys think of AIM solder? The guy at my local hobby store said AIM is comparable to Kester.

Also, looking at the OP, is this lead free?

http://www.parts-express.com/kester-44-rosin-core-solder-63-37-031-1-lb-spool--370-074#lblProductDetails

Thank you!

[BlueBär]

I'm looking to buying some solder, but I'm confused between solder and lead-free solder. From a health perspective, is the lead-free one considerably better? Or are they just equally as bad? Also, what do you guys think of AIM solder? The guy at my local hobby store said AIM is comparable to Kester.
Also, looking at the OP, is this lead free?
http://www.parts-express.com/kester-44-rosin-core-solder-63-37-031-1-lb-spool--370-074#lblProductDetails

Kester 44 is not lead free, it is made of 63% tin and 37% lead (thats what the 63/37 stands for). It is recommended as it melts at lower temperatures and is easier to work with.
Both is bad if you breathe it and you should wash your hands after soldering. Open your window while soldering or have a fan near your soldering area and you should be perfectly fine.

[Dreamre]

I'm looking to buying some solder, but I'm confused between solder and lead-free solder. From a health perspective, is the lead-free one considerably better? Or are they just equally as bad? Also, what do you guys think of AIM solder? The guy at my local hobby store said AIM is comparable to Kester.
Also, looking at the OP, is this lead free?
http://www.parts-express.com/kester-44-rosin-core-solder-63-37-031-1-lb-spool--370-074#lblProductDetails

Kester 44 is not lead free, it is made of 63% tin and 37% lead (thats what the 63/37 stands for). It is recommended as it melts at lower temperatures and is easier to work with.
Both is bad if you breathe it and you should wash your hands after soldering. Open your window while soldering or have a fan near your soldering area and you should be perfectly fine.

Thanks for providing this information BlueBär!

Does anyone know where else I can obtain this solder? Parts-express doesn't ship to Canada and eBay is around $70USD.

Thank you!

[BlueBär]

Does anyone know where else I can obtain this solder? Parts-express doesn't ship to Canada and eBay is around $70USD.

I have the same problem. Someday when Geekhackers.org is open I would suggest to buy it from there.

[Photoelectric]

I'm working on another keyboard, which was not put together by me, and trying to figure out why one of the LEDs does not light up (on the "N" key).  The LED itself is good, which I've tested--even replaced with another working LED.  But... it doesn't light up.  I can make it light up by doing a continuity check with a multimeter and passing some extra current through it, I guess, but otherwise it stays dark when all the others on that keyboard are lit.

I've tested the resistor for the troublesome LED, and it's properly soldered.  Any ideas what might be happening?  It's like it's not getting sufficient current for some reason or else some weird firmware thing where it's not getting enough current via software (doubtful).  Everything looks clean and neat, no damaged traces.

[jdcarpe]

I'm working on another keyboard, which was not put together by me, and trying to figure out why one of the LEDs does not light up (on the "N" key).  The LED itself is good, which I've tested--even replaced with another working LED.  But... it doesn't light up.  I can make it light up by doing a continuity check with a multimeter and passing some extra current through it, I guess, but otherwise it stays dark when all the others on that keyboard are lit.

I've tested the resistor for the troublesome LED, and it's properly soldered.  Any ideas what might be happening?  It's like it's not getting sufficient current for some reason or else some weird firmware thing where it's not getting enough current via software (doubtful).  Everything looks clean and neat, no damaged traces.

Something something forward voltage...bad resistor...wrong value resistor...

[Photoelectric]

The resistor seems to give the same reading as others when I do a continuity check.  Hrm.

[Dreamre]

Has anyone used AIM solder before? How does it compare to Kester?

[mkawa]

I'm looking to buying some solder, but I'm confused between solder and lead-free solder. From a health perspective, is the lead-free one considerably better? Or are they just equally as bad? Also, what do you guys think of AIM solder? The guy at my local hobby store said AIM is comparable to Kester.
Also, looking at the OP, is this lead free?
http://www.parts-express.com/kester-44-rosin-core-solder-63-37-031-1-lb-spool--370-074#lblProductDetails

Kester 44 is not lead free, it is made of 63% tin and 37% lead (thats what the 63/37 stands for). It is recommended as it melts at lower temperatures and is easier to work with.
Both is bad if you breathe it and you should wash your hands after soldering. Open your window while soldering or have a fan near your soldering area and you should be perfectly fine.

kester 44 actually doesn't refer to the alloy. there is kester 44 60/40 as well as 63/37. kester 44 actually refers to the specific RA flux formulation. it is incredibly effective while being very low in halides and other really nasty stuff. rosin is actually a plant derived solvent, and it can be activated with really nasty stuff, or not so nasty stuff. the nastiest fluxes will actually corrode the joint if you leave it on. kester 44 leaded solder was incredibly popular for 40 some odd years because it was no-clean in an industrial sense; that is it was corrosive enough to disrupt oxide layers, but not corrosive enough to corrode joints, boards or components (in the expectation, of course). of the kester 44 variants, the best for hobby soldering is 63/37 because it has no glass transition phase between solid and liquid. it phase changes at exactly 183C, which is very low, for the least chance of component heat damage, and the easiest work and rework during assembly or repair. in small diameter (0.02-0.03"), it is extremely versatile, has excellent wetting characteristics (the flux to solder ratio is extremely copacetic to good flow of solder into a joint), is fairly non-toxic, and has very good performace when flux residue is not cleaned off the board.

geekhackers.org does in fact carry kester 44 RA 63/37 in the 0.02" variant, but unless you order a learn to solder kit or soldering accessories kit, i am ridiculously swamped at the moment, and taking a 10 USD order, packing, fulfilling and shipping it leaves me way negative. i'm guessing you'd prefer that geekhackers' resellers have stock of lubricant  anyway with how quickly it keeps selling out on me XD

also: hat tip, i'm working on a GB of premium hand tools right now. i have to do some intensely boring tabulation and cross-checking and demo a few things, but i'm getting pretty excited about it. i have an opportunity to offer extremely premium hand tools for a very reasonable price. sorry, completely off-topic. back to packing lube.

[mkawa]

wait, crap, that post was supposed to be about potential toxicity of solder. kester 44 RA is "not all that toxic" in that a small room air cleaner or a pc fan blowing into some activated aquarium charcoal will get rid of the smell and any consequential (though relatively minor) toxicity. the activators used in kester 44 RA are organic and not nasty halides or arsenic or whatever the hell the really corrosive stuff uses. however, one common misconception is that solder fumes contain heavy metals, ie, lead. this is untrue. what you are smelling is only fumes caused by either burning the flux, or the rx between the flux and metal oxides. heavy metals all stay solid and on on the board, basically. however, handling soldering is handling about 30% of that diameter minus the flux diameter of lead. again, lead residue will end up on your hands when you handle leaded solder (it sounds so simple when you just outright say it ). hence, wash your hands after your handle solder.

that's basically the safety story. if you're an assembly line worker, you really want to follow safety procedure. if you're a hobbyist that solders once a week, you'll do fine with an open window and habituation to good hand sanitation

[Photoelectric]

JDcarpe:  I've replaced the resistor (thankfully had one of almost the same value), and the LED works now, woot!