The Living Soldering Thread

[mkawa]

i'd suggest something like 18-22g solid core, tinned without insulation if possible. it's pretty rare to find that stuff though, so the other option is magnet wire. it has an acrylic insulation that you just melt through to make an electrical connection. magnet wire is not tinned, so you'll have to flux it like any other wire.

[swill]

I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

[mkawa]

yes, but it's harder to work with

[CPTBadAss]

public service announcement:

cptbadass sent me these pictures of his soldering pencil when he was having trouble desoldering some joints:

Show Image

Show Image

what you're looking at is a heavily oxidized pencil and tip. metal oxides have really poor thermal conductivity and will refuse to be tinned with solder. however, this is very easily fixable.

the solution is:

SCRUB THE CRAP OUT OF IT. use something hard. sandpaper works. baking soda slurry works. steel or brass brushes work (often used for painting; cheap at the hardware store). steel wool works. heck, sand slurrys work too.

bottom line: expose the underlying metal. the tip will either be made with tin (not the highest quality, but heck, it works), or copper (more typical). the shaft and the rear bit of the tip will be zinc plated steel. that won't take solder, but it will clean up nicely. KEEP YOUR IRON CLEAN. this is the key to maintaining thermal efficiency. without thermal efficiency, your iron is going to very slowly heat the workpiece, resulting in either the workpiece not getting hot enough to take solder, or getting too hot and burning up.

PROTIP: scrubbing a hot iron is a little bit easier than scrubbing a cold iron, as you can cover your brush with flux, and use the wetting action of the flux (really what's happening is that the flux is corrosive and helps chemically get rid of the oxide layer while your brush mechanically debrides the oxide layer). then, once your tip is clean, IMMEDIATELY tin it by melting a crapton of solder on it. keep the tip over something that won't burn if hot solder drops on it. at the end of this process you should have a clean iron and a shiny tinned tip.

happy soldering!!

Even after I spent 2 hours cleaning it with a brass wire brush and a baking solda slurry, I couldn't melt that damn joint. I ended up removing what I could, then snipping the switch leg until it lay flush to the pcb. Then I cranked my 808 way up and just sucked it out like that.

Also, now everyone will know I'm terrible at soldering

[tbc]

i'd suggest something like 18-22g solid core, tinned without insulation if possible. it's pretty rare to find that stuff though, so the other option is magnet wire. it has an acrylic insulation that you just melt through to make an electrical connection. magnet wire is not tinned, so you'll have to flux it like any other wire.

thanks!

so it sounds like when using kester 44 (the r2 kit I got from you), that it doesn't matter if the wire is tinned or not.

[mkawa]

yah, not really. if the copper is heavily oxidized, use a wire brush on it first. this goes for all oxidized metals, however.

[swill]

I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about that I bought on element14 (newark)...

[James35]

Best bang for the buck: Hacko FX888.  It's a dumb, but brute force of an iron for under $100.
Best soldering station is JCB Soldering Stations - $490. If you watch this video, be prepared to wipe up your drool.

[tbc]

wow.  that tip changing feature looks baller.

[James35]

Yeah, there are so many bad ass features on the JBC's.  I would love to splurge for one someday.  It's not like soldering will get outdated.

[Zeal]

Yeah, there are so many bad ass features on the JBC's.  I would love to splurge for one someday.  It's not like soldering will get outdated.

Are those tips being held in with a magnet/indents inside? Didn't look like it required much force to switch the tips.

[James35]

I don't know.  I think it's a press fit.

[mkawa]

I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about that I bought on element14 (newark)...

yah, that should work. just remember not to treat it like hookup wire. it's more like a bus bar.

[swill]

I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about that I bought on element14 (newark)...

yah, that should work. just remember not to treat it like hookup wire. it's more like a bus bar.

Can you put that in more layman's terms?

[Fire Brand]

Hello just wanted a little help and I thought this may be the best place to ask, although I have done things before I wasn't sure on this, basically I had a KBT Pure that the 1 key would not work or very intermittently after changing the switch multiple times today, I finally found someone had before suggested bridging the switch with the next switch, which is the number 2 after doing this the 1 switch is now pressing and registering correctly, should I leave this with the bridge in place or would it be best to remove as it could cause other issues, my main concern is that it could effect the board and damage it more, sorry for the picture below its one I made to try show what I have done as I don't wish to take the pure apart again unless needed.


the bridge is a wire isolated between point A and B

[mkawa]

I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about that I bought on element14 (newark)...

yah, that should work. just remember not to treat it like hookup wire. it's more like a bus bar.

Can you put that in more layman's terms?

run a single long wire across the each matrix row and column, then modify the wire as necessary to get your diodes in. don't try to wire everything point to point.

[Tarzan]

I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about that I bought on element14 (newark)...

yah, that should work. just remember not to treat it like hookup wire. it's more like a bus bar.

Can you put that in more layman's terms?

run a single long wire across the each matrix row and column, then modify the wire as necessary to get your diodes in. don't try to wire everything point to point.

IIRC, one hardwired keyboard project I saw pictures of took this approach, but only for the rows.  Rows were all wired to thick straight conductor material, columns were wired using diodes, as it was easier to guide the wire around/under each "bus bar" to avoid shorts.  (I'll see if I can find the thread with these images...)

[bpiphany]

Don't scrub away too harshly on a soldering iron tip. You don't want to go through the plating on it. If you get down to the copper inside it will eat away very quickly. I don't know if the prognosis is as bad with lead solder, but I hollowed out a tip very far soldering just one 40% board. Back in 9th grade we always filed down our tips to clean and sharpen them, but I'm pretty sure we used leaded solder, and the tips may have been a different material altogether as well.

I use a brass bristle brush and a tip tinner. For bad cases I also have a sort of grinding stone from Weller that eat away corrosion quickly. I suppose it's hardness has been chosen not to damage the tips too badly..

[mkawa]

if your oxide layer is that bad, the tin plating is not doing very well and probably all oxide anyway. if you end up in this situation often, consider switching to an sn63/pb37/cu1 (1% copper) soldering until you're better able to manage your temperatures and tinning habits to keep your tips in good shape.

[asdfjkl36]

Nvm. Problem solved. 

[kaotikb]

I just ordered the Hakko 888d. I was using a cheapo 10 dollar iron before.

https://solarbotics.com/product/44162/

Will see how it works out.

[domoaligato]

I just wanted to check back and say that the hakko 808 is worth every f^&*ing penny.
Thanks!

[tbc]

just out of curiosity, is it normal for there to be splattering while soldering?

when I start making a new joint, little tiny balls of mildly hot solder/flux start shooting up to 2-3in away from the joint.

[kaotikb]

Maybe iron is not hot enough?

[SpAmRaY]

Maybe iron is not hot enough?

Or too hot?

[domoaligato]

I was thinking too hot.

[mkawa]

just out of curiosity, is it normal for there to be splattering while soldering?

when I start making a new joint, little tiny balls of mildly hot solder/flux start shooting up to 2-3in away from the joint.

splattering can definitely happen, but it shouldn't always be happening. it generally indicates either an issue with heat, your technique, or the solder.

for temperature, if you're using a temperature controlled iron, remember that you want 350C for leaded solder and 425-450C for lead-free solder. if you're not using a temperature controlled iron, try wiping your tip down and tinning it more often, so that tip temperatures peak less. some out-of-date solders can splatter because water has migrated into the flux core, and when it vaporizes, there's a bit of a pop as the energy releases.

however, most likely, from what you're describing, it's probably technique. to make a standard joint, take your clean tinned tip and apply a little bit of solder to it, just enough to make contact with your joint substrates. think of this as a bridge for heat (because that's what it is -- it's a thermal junction between the tip and your workpiece). now, hold your iron up to the desired joint material with the heat bridge touching _both_ parts of the joint. now you can start poking _the joint_, NOT your iron, with solder. when solder flows or wets across both parts of the joint, such that they're pretty clearly electrically bonded, remove your iron and solder. let the joint cool without disturbing it. you should now have a shiny new joint.

[nereme]

Got myself a Soldering Iron today as my S key broke last night and am happily typing after fixing my Board and I am really happy

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/48w-lcd-display-solder-station-n16ch

Thats the Iron I got. Thought for the money it was probably the best I could easily get.

[tbc]

thanks for the soldering tips guys! 

I'm going to do it the way mkawa says to do it and I'll see what happens.

learning lots

[swill]

X-post...  A bit of a soldering discussion started in my build log.  I learned some tricks regarding cylindrical SMD diodes that the followers of this thread may be interested in, so here it is: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58969.msg1352424#msg1352424

[minho]

I am planning on purchasing a GON NerD TKL but I have a few questions about building this keyboard before I start and order. What other components besides switches/case+plate/keycaps do I need if I want a fully backlit board? (I believe this order comes with PCB, USB connector, and side LEDs).

Also, does anyone have any experience with programming this keyboard and programming backlighting/custom layouts or anything? I imagine I may need help with that later 

Thanks

[domoaligato]

From gons site...
Hardware MACRO(Realtime Macro without Software / Macro Recording with Dedicated Software(Software to be released in a few months.


The phantom has been out for quite a while now and is open sourse with support from tmk firmware project and the easyavr projects.
Sorry but I do not know much about the nerd yet.

[jbm]

Hi all. I'm currently teaching myself to solder while waiting for an Ergodox kit to arrive. I have a pair of questions about work surfaces and tools.

First, regarding antistatic mats. I've noticed that they cost anywhere from $15 for cheap ones to $60-$70 for (presumably) nicer ones. Are the most expensive ones worth it? One of the things the more expensive ones add is heat resistance, which seems like it may be relevant when soldering.

Here's an example of a cheaper one: http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RTK-ASM-Anti-Static-Mat/dp/B004N96WQ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402510323&sr=8-1&keywords=anti+static+mat
And a more expensive one: http://www.amazon.com/Bertech-Static-Temperature-Rubber-Grounding/dp/B00HFQPUA2/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1402510323&sr=8-15&keywords=anti+static+mat

My second question is regarding vices. In my first soldering experiment I wished I had something to hold the PCB so I'm pretty sure I want one. I'm looking at the Panavise 301 or 396. Would you recommend one or the other? The 301 seemed like it might be too small but they also seem popular so I may be misunderstanding how much room I'll need.

Thanks! I've already learned a ton from this thread.

By the way, the Ergodox will almost certainly not be my last/only soldering project, so I'm willing to spend a bit more to get the right setup in place.

- jbm

[mkawa]

the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

[swill]

the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

This is the setup he is referring to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45656.msg1349481#msg1349481

I think I am one of the only people who actually have this setup already because I got Melvang to custom build me the cross bar and stem.  I have to admit this setup is absolutely awesome...

[mkawa]

i believe swill and i are the only ones with melvang's stem and crossbar. it's pretty darned sweet to say the least. i suffered through the panavise stem for far too long.

[jbm]

the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

Thanks mkawa and swill. That looks like a nice setup indeed. I'd somehow missed the 316 altogether!

I noticed melvang has an artisnal services thread - I'll get in touch and see if I can get my hands on something similar.

[Smasher816]

I just wanted to check back and say that the hakko 808 is worth every f^&*ing penny.
Thanks!

Hey guys. I'v been bringing my WASD v2 to work and keeping my HHKB at home. The browns in the WASD are too light for my tastes and lead to a lot of typos. I would have prefered to get clears strait out of the gate but it was hard to find a keyboard with them. I could get another topre (realforce) since I like them, but I am thinking about keeping an MX board since variety is the spice of life. Anyways, since I have been doing a bit of soldering recently I was thinking about spending $50 and picking up some keys for a switch mod.

Through hole soldering is fairly easy and strait forward so I have no issue with it. It's desoldering that I don't have much experience with. I'v used some wick to clean up a pin or two but it really don't seem like a good idea for the whole board. That hakko 808 looks like an absolutely magical device but I don't know if I want to shell out $200 just for this one mod. Geekhackers.org has a cheap $15 soldapolt which would work but it seems a little annoying to pump it 200+ times - I guess it's better than nothing. Any advice for desoldering a lot of through hole pins to swap out a TKL keyboard?

[intelli78]

The $15 RadioShack desoldering iron is decent if you have a big desoldering project, but it takes forever to warm up and you have to change the tips often as they are easily damaged/worn. I killed one after desoldering a single keyboard -- that said, it was much easier than a sucker.

I actually ordered a Hakko 808 this weekend.  Definitely looking forward to it.

[mkawa]

actually, someone else made this mistake recently. the 15$ line item is a soldapullt REBUILD kit, not a full soldapullt unit. However, I do have two more blue complete krytox-powered DS017GH soldapullts for 20$/ea. from there on, every soldapullt with be a black krytox-powered DS017LSGH. the pricing from the blue units won't change much (a couple dollars more than the non-clearance DS017GH price of 30$, that's about it).

i've definitely desoldered some pretty crazy stuff (8ga stranded wire? yep!) with DS017 models. and yes, i also have an 808. the thing about the 808 that's great is that you can completely desolder a through-hole board in minutes. the not so great thing is that you can't desolder SMT pads. it will pull the pads off. the other nasty thing about it is that you can completely clog the nozzle/tip, especially when desoldering lead-free joints, and a new tip is like 15$. it's possible to do even worse too. let a post-filter sit for too long in the unit and you will destroy the vacuum pump. it's powerful, but naturally is fussier than a plastic pump.

what i like about the soldapullt most is that it's always ready to pull solder off of anything. no heatup time. no plugging things in or finding the power switch (i've hacked a power switch onto mine and actually upgraded it to an 80w element, and i'm still to impatient to use it most of hte time). the soldapullt is also exceptionally durable. you can pull SO MUCH CRAP into a soldapullt before it even starts complaining, and then you basically just dump it out, wipe the o-ring down, run some water through it and it'll do another thousand joints.

[phoenix1234]

the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

This is the setup he is referring to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45656.msg1349481#msg1349481

I think I am one of the only people who actually have this setup already because I got Melvang to custom build me the cross bar and stem.  I have to admit this setup is absolutely awesome...

I'm pretty sure you and mkawa are not the only ones who like Melvang setup. There will be more. The crossbar and and stem look amazing. 
I really like the crossbar. In Vietnam, the best thing I can find is the square stainless steel 10x10cm
Maybe you can order Melvang another crossbar with the length 66cm (~26inch) to hold 104 keyboard.

[Smasher816]

The $15 RadioShack desoldering iron is decent if you have a big desoldering project

This? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731. I have a RadioShack by my house so it would be easy to pick one up. $15 isn't too bad for the added help even of it just lasts for one bog desoldering project.

Ohh and quick question. What do you use to clean up flux residue? Rubbing alcohol?

[mkawa]

the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

This is the setup he is referring to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45656.msg1349481#msg1349481

I think I am one of the only people who actually have this setup already because I got Melvang to custom build me the cross bar and stem.  I have to admit this setup is absolutely awesome...

I'm pretty sure you and mkawa are not the only ones who like Melvang setup. There will be more. The crossbar and and stem look amazing. 
I really like the crossbar. In Vietnam, the best thing I can find is the square stainless steel 10x10cm (Attachment Link)
Maybe you can order Melvang another crossbar with the length 66cm (~26inch) to hold 104 keyboard.

melvang just let me know that he's done with another 5 18" units, stem and crossbar. they're going to go up on the geekhackers store as soon as i get them.

PM him about the 26" crossbar. he can make it, no problem.

[minho]

Two questions:

1) Is Kester 44 a no clean flux? As in is it okay to leave flux residue on the PCB after soldering?

2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?

[jbm]

Is this visor (recommended elsewhere in this thread for the magnification) sufficient eye protection, or are goggles safety glasses the way to go?

http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403024244&sr=8-1&keywords=magnifier+visor

Edit: I meant safety glasses, not goggles.

[Melvang]

the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

This is the setup he is referring to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45656.msg1349481#msg1349481

I think I am one of the only people who actually have this setup already because I got Melvang to custom build me the cross bar and stem.  I have to admit this setup is absolutely awesome...

I'm pretty sure you and mkawa are not the only ones who like Melvang setup. There will be more. The crossbar and and stem look amazing. 
I really like the crossbar. In Vietnam, the best thing I can find is the square stainless steel 10x10cm (Attachment Link)
Maybe you can order Melvang another crossbar with the length 66cm (~26inch) to hold 104 keyboard.

melvang just let me know that he's done with another 5 18" units, stem and crossbar. they're going to go up on the geekhackers store as soon as i get them.

PM him about the 26" crossbar. he can make it, no problem.

Correction, I got 4 going to be heading to mkawa, all with 18" cross bars.  I can make one with a 26" bar no problem.  Would just cost a touch more due to material/shipping costs.

[mkawa]

Two questions:

1) Is Kester 44 a no clean flux? As in is it okay to leave flux residue on the PCB after soldering?

yes. i clean it up, but it is generally ok to leave it there, and is classified as no-clean

2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?

for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it

[mkawa]

Is this visor (recommended elsewhere in this thread for the magnification) sufficient eye protection, or are goggles the way to go?

http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403024244&sr=8-1&keywords=magnifier+visor

if you feel you need goggles when you're soldering, your iron is way too hot. also, i have one of those i'm giving away free in the classifieds "free stuff" thread. PM me if you want it.

[Smasher816]

Alright guys. I'm thinking about from my cheap $10 soldering iron... I don't want to spend a fortune but I suppose around a $100 max would be ok.

I know geekhackers.org carries the CL1481, but I can't help wonder for around that price if I might as well get a temperature controlled iron with its own stand. I'v seen a lot of people recommend the Hakko 888, but unfortunately the only the digital version around which seems a little more difficult to use but is not a deal breaker. I really don't want to read over all 70 pages of this thread and scour google for more info. Any suggestions?

[Pacifist]

Alright guys. I'm thinking about from my cheap $10 soldering iron... I don't want to spend a fortune but I suppose around a $100 max would be ok.

I know geekhackers.org carries the CL1481, but I can't help wonder for around that price if I might as well get a temperature controlled iron with its own stand. I'v seen a lot of people recommend the Hakko 888, but unfortunately the only the digital version around which seems a little more difficult to use but is not a deal breaker. I really don't want to read over all 70 pages of this thread and scour google for more info. Any suggestions?

I use the yihua 936 and its good enough for the basic soldering work I do