The Living Soldering Thread

[BlueBär]

The concept of hardwiring is simple: you create a keyboard matrix by wiring some contacts together and attach that to a controller, for example a Teensy. The controller then reads the matrix, recognizes which key was pressed and sends that to the computer.
If you want to know how a keyboard matrix works, I would recommend you this article by komar007: http://blog.komar.be/how-to-make-a-keyboard-the-matrix/

[dorkvader]

I did some searching on the forum, but didn't quite find any extra info, so thought this would be a good spot to ask.

I've seen the 'Hard-Wiring How-To', but was hoping to find more information/explanation on hard-wiring. Do you know of any other posts/sites/etc. that go deeper into explaining hard-wiring? New to soldering and keyboard creation, so just wanting a bit more in-depth info if it's available.

Thanks in advance for any info!

Here is one of the first guides
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0

some new tips:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

For the matrix circuit, I like this page
http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/one_html/

[skottr]

Here is one of the first guides
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0

some new tips:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

For the matrix circuit, I like this page
http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/one_html/

The concept of hardwiring is simple: you create a keyboard matrix by wiring some contacts together and attach that to a controller, for example a Teensy. The controller then reads the matrix, recognizes which key was pressed and sends that to the computer.
If you want to know how a keyboard matrix works, I would recommend you this article by komar007: http://blog.komar.be/how-to-make-a-keyboard-the-matrix/

Thanks, guys! I'm completely new to the electronic side of fabrication, so I'm reading everything I can get my hands on. I appreciate the links!

[mkawa]

Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?   

http://www.mcmaster.com/#carbon-fiber-fabric/=tu7tt6

underneath the carbon fiber textile, i highly recommend using a sheet of insulation. the cheapest thin insulation is fiberglass sheeting:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#fiberglass-fabric/=tu7uc7

the acrylic coated stuff is going to be the least toxic. if you want to get really fancy, get 2mm aerogel

http://www.pacorinc.com/standard-length-aerogel-insulation/try1-sample-kit

you want the 2mm pyrogel 2250. the 5 and 10mm are overkill and have poor compression set characteristics.

[tbc]

i use a piece of cardboard -_-

amiduingitrong?

[digi]

Or a baking mat? I think WFD uses this in his youtube vids - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LUYK1I/ref=s9_simh_se_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=search-desktop-advertising-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=0W9GMPTRKJF1R7QTKB2A&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1912906122&pf_rd_i=SAINTOGRAPH%20cutting%20mat

[mkawa]

silicone melts at 200c

[BlueBär]

Or a baking mat? I think WFD uses this in his youtube vids - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LUYK1I/ref=s9_simh_se_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=search-desktop-advertising-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=0W9GMPTRKJF1R7QTKB2A&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1912906122&pf_rd_i=SAINTOGRAPH%20cutting%20mat

[digi]

silicone melts at 200c

ah, thanks for that...for $8 it's still better than what I currently have, which is nothing, lol.

[digi]

i'm obviously biased here, but to present a factual point, a temperature controlled iron used with 63/37 kester 44 gets set to 350C and never moves from that temperature.

also, my 80$ kit comes with a stand (edsyn IP491).

but, as levar burton once said, you don't have to take my word for it. *cue reading rainbow outro*

Just to confirm, if I'm only using the iron for soldering keyboards and such, the constant temp of the CL1481 should be sufficient then?

How do i find the operating temp of the CL1481 from the range Edysn specifies here? thanks

"Temp Range: 400°F-800°F/205°C-427°C" from: http://www.edsyn.com/product/CL1481.html

[cooldiscretion]

Just curious if anyone has any opinions on using solder paste for SMDs.  I have some pretty small (0806 package) resistors I need to solder
on a board and using solder paste has worked well for me in the past. just put the paste on the pad, plop the component down and place the
iron near the past until it heats up and makes the connection. This way, if more solder needs to be added the component is already nicely in
place and stuck to the PCB.

[BakaPhoenix]

Sorry if this was asked so many times, but on what temp should i keep my soldering iron to solder/desolder switches and led?

[digi]

Sorry if this was asked so many times, but on what temp should i keep my soldering iron to solder/desolder switches and led? It's really tight.

It depends on which solder you're using but I believe 350C for Kester 44 is the norm?

[Melvang]

Sorry if this was asked so many times, but on what temp should i keep my soldering iron to solder/desolder switches and led?

It depends on which solder you're using but I believe 350C for Kester 44 is the norm?

That temp should work for all 63/27 solder.  The mix between lead and the tin affects the melting/flowable temp.  This temp should work fine for most leaded solder.  For lead free you will want to go up a bit more as it has a higher melting temp.  Though if you are removing lead free solder, add some leaded solder to it and it comes up a lot easier.

[digi]

I'm trying to desolder some leds and remove them. I feel like I'm getting all the solder without a problem but I can't pull the led out...am I missing something?

[SpAmRaY]

I'm trying to desolder some leds and remove them. I feel like I'm getting all the solder without a problem but I can't pull the led out...am I missing something?

Even a very small amount of solder can cause them to stick. Normally when I desolder LEDs they fall out on their own.

[digi]

something isn't right, I don't want to damage the pcb...I've touched the iron onto the lead in every angle and soldapulted multiple times...these don't want to come out...

[pichu23]

something isn't right, I don't want to damage the pcb...I've touched the iron onto the lead in every angle and soldapulted multiple times...these don't want to come out...

add a little more solder then try using the soldapult again.
it always works for me. or maybe your soldapult is filled with solder inside. might have to clean it.
if not the "sucking power" isn't really that strong. 

[digi]

I added more solder to both leads, bridged it with solder and sucked the solder out...These things are really stuck in there. Still wouldn't come out.

Working on a second bad led, I managed to pull it out but think I pulled too hard, did I mess up the pcb? switch still works, guess I won't know I receive the replacement leds..ugh.

[digi]

update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.

[heedpantsnow]

Geekhackers is out of learn to solder kits. Is there something similar somewhere else?

[yasuo]

This is an effective way for desolder

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365

[HPE1000]

My soldering pump just naturally did that. It's still a pretty garbage solder sucker but it helps I guess.

[kohi]

something isn't right, I don't want to damage the pcb...I've touched the iron onto the lead in every angle and soldapulted multiple times...these don't want to come out...

I had the same problem as you - it looked like I got all of the solder off, but the LED wouldn't budge. I used a solder sucker, but it actually lifted the LED pad. . .
luckily I was able to reposition my 'out-of-position' LED, and when I soldered everything back on, it worked. hopefully it doesn't cause any problems in the future;;;

[azhdar]

It seems that the OP is not up to date , what would be the budget soldering station nowadays ? 50-100$

[esoomenona]

.

[tjcaustin]

It seems that the OP is not up to date , what would be the budget soldering station nowadays ? 50-100$

It's up to date.  There hasn't been anything that needs an edit to come along.  Soldering stations don't change by year or semi-annually.

[cooldiscretion]

This is an effective way for desolder

Show Image

Show Image

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365

I count three hands to take this picture???!!!  )

[margo baggins]

Just curious if anyone has any opinions on using solder paste for SMDs.  I have some pretty small (0806 package) resistors I need to solder
on a board and using solder paste has worked well for me in the past. just put the paste on the pad, plop the component down and place the
iron near the past until it heats up and makes the connection. This way, if more solder needs to be added the component is already nicely in
place and stuck to the PCB.

I use solder paste a lot - it's the fastest way to solder loads of smd. Just cover all the pads in blobs of paste, drop on all the passives - then I use how air and just blast it all until it's all melted and made nice joints.

[yasuo]

This is an effective way for desolder

Show Image

Show Image

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365

I count three hands to take this picture???!!!  )

it's for switch i dont think for smd it's very small & risk )

[azhdar]

Just curious if anyone has any opinions on using solder paste for SMDs.  I have some pretty small (0806 package) resistors I need to solder
on a board and using solder paste has worked well for me in the past. just put the paste on the pad, plop the component down and place the
iron near the past until it heats up and makes the connection. This way, if more solder needs to be added the component is already nicely in
place and stuck to the PCB.

I use solder paste a lot - it's the fastest way to solder loads of smd. Just cover all the pads in blobs of paste, drop on all the passives - then I use how air and just blast it all until it's all melted and made nice joints.

How hot are we talking about ? Would an hair dryer works ?

[margo baggins]

Just curious if anyone has any opinions on using solder paste for SMDs.  I have some pretty small (0806 package) resistors I need to solder
on a board and using solder paste has worked well for me in the past. just put the paste on the pad, plop the component down and place the
iron near the past until it heats up and makes the connection. This way, if more solder needs to be added the component is already nicely in
place and stuck to the PCB.

I use solder paste a lot - it's the fastest way to solder loads of smd. Just cover all the pads in blobs of paste, drop on all the passives - then I use how air and just blast it all until it's all melted and made nice joints.

How hot are we talking about ? Would an hair dryer works ?

No I don't think so - nor would it be precise or controllable - my air station has variable air power, which is quite important as otherwise you can accidentally blow little smd guys off the board. I use 60/40 paste and have my air set at about 280C

[azhdar]

Ok thanks margo

[quochung1989]

update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.

Yeah i agree this with you. Or if anyone know the best way to desoldering led, pls share

[margo baggins]

update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.

Yeah i agree this with you. Or if anyone know the best way to desoldering led, pls share

[berserkfan]

update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.

Yeah i agree this with you. Or if anyone know the best way to desoldering led, pls share

Buy cheapo soldering tweezers.

Buy a vice to hold your keyboard perpendicularly.

Touch both led leads at the same time with the tweezers.

Pull out led.

For putting in LEDs, just do the reverse. It is a bit harder to execute, and you have to examine all joints carefully to make sure the solder flowed properly.

[HoffmanMyster]

speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

I might pick one up sometime in the near future.

Did you ever end up getting one of these?  I did, and was curious if anyone else picked one up.

First impressions after using it to desolder ~20 switches last night: works like a dream - just as easy to use as the 808, but it's lighter, easier to hold, has better temp control, and I love the dedicated power button.  We'll see how it holds up to some abuse, but the initial design is really great.

[SpAmRaY]

speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

I might pick one up sometime in the near future.

Did you ever end up getting one of these?  I did, and was curious if anyone else picked one up.

First impressions after using it to desolder ~20 switches last night: works like a dream - just as easy to use as the 808, but it's lighter, easier to hold, has better temp control, and I love the dedicated power button.  We'll see how it holds up to some abuse, but the initial design is really great.

What do you use for a stand?

[HoffmanMyster]

speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

I might pick one up sometime in the near future.

Did you ever end up getting one of these?  I did, and was curious if anyone else picked one up.

First impressions after using it to desolder ~20 switches last night: works like a dream - just as easy to use as the 808, but it's lighter, easier to hold, has better temp control, and I love the dedicated power button.  We'll see how it holds up to some abuse, but the initial design is really great.

What do you use for a stand?

I take my 888D off the stand and sloppily set/lay the FR-300 in that stand. It comes with a cheap metal piece to set the heater on if you want to set it flat on a table but I haven't used that yet. I also have a spare soldering iron holder I will start to use in the future.

[quochung1989]

update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.

Yeah i agree this with you. Or if anyone know the best way to desoldering led, pls share

Buy cheapo soldering tweezers.

Buy a vice to hold your keyboard perpendicularly.

Touch both led leads at the same time with the tweezers.

Pull out led.

For putting in LEDs, just do the reverse. It is a bit harder to execute, and you have to examine all joints carefully to make sure the solder flowed properly.

Ok thanks your sharing

[margo baggins]

What's the hakko like with tips?

Generally speaking hakko is difficult to get here, but my station is chewing through tips so fast it's starting to drive me mad, am thinking of getting rid and getting a different desoldering station.

[cgbuen]

What a normal Soldapullt should look like: 4:30 - 4:35

More

Completely compressed when opened and unplunged. Maximum suction.

My second ever ruined Soldapullt, ruined in the same way this time as the first time

Outstretched when opened and unplunged. No suction.

What might have happened, as I understand it
Sometimes I'll stop doing DIY projects for 5-6 months at a time, so my Soldapullt stays tucked away, uncleaned. When picking it back up, I'll find that the thin middle "rod" part had stuck to the tip assembly when the leftover, uncleaned solder had hardened over the course of those few months. Since the spring portion moves along with that rod, it had remained outstretched that whole time. I suppose then it just loses its ability to stay as compressed as it was before.

(Also, in these two times, I've proceeded to panic when I don't see the proper suction, try to rotate to open it, see that it's just completely stuck to the tip and try to pull further, which stretches out the spring even further. I was finally able to get it open this time by prying out the tip assembly which was completely stuck to the end of the "rod", but sadly, it was already unusable by this point.)

Possible takeaways for when I get my next
- Keep the Soldapullt clean
- Don't take too long between uses
- (?) Keep the barrel separated from the rear assembly when storing

[Tiramisuu]

Haven't read through all 79 pages yet....
For a sub $500usd setup...   If I want solder, desolder,  hot air are there any combo hobbyist bargains to be found?

My radios hack iron and multi hand tools are not really up to a keyboard project.

[Tiramisuu]

AOYUE 968A+ 4 IN 1 DIGITAL HOT AIR REWORK AND SOLDERING STATION @ 175?

http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

AOYUE 2702A+ ALL IN ONE DIGITAL HOT AIR REWORK STATION @ 239

http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-2702a-all-in-one-digital-hot-air-rework-station/

[cinnamonrollz]

Gas soldering irons ftw!

[goflo]

@Tiramisu
I recently got a Xytronic LF-853D Station. Solder, Desolder, Hot Air.
I have just done about 500 solder points with it, so no long term experience, but some first impressions.

The hot air unit did a great job soldering the diodes on the ergodox I`m typing on right now.
Heats up quick an has a high air flow (if you want to, I prefer less volume). Air flow and temperature are good to adjust.

The desoldering iron does a real good job, but you have to clean it about every 50 times you desoldered a part. But that`s no big deal...turning a part about 90 degrees, pull out a little glass container, clean it....up you go.
After long use (about 20min) the grip get rather warm, but nothing critical.

The soldering iron has a nice size, compared to my older Weller Station it`s a bit thinner. You get all sorts of tips for it, ranging from 0.8mm round tip to 3,2mm flat. That`s the biggest one I got, maybe there is more available.
Solder an Desolder irons heat up pretty quick (I can measure it if someone is interested).

I`m pretty happy with, in the next days there`s another clock project to solder...another ~250 soldering points. Another chance to test this big boy. 

[Melvang]

I just want to chime in with my experience on desoldering different boards.  I have desoldered my Das a total of 3 times now.  Very solid traces and yet to lift a single pad or trace.  I was into the second row of my rosewill RK9000 pcb and I lifted a pad.  The pads on that pcb is more of a trace than a pad.  They are very delicate and thin.  Fixing that pad won't be an issue though.

[Tiramisuu]

@Tiramisu
I recently got a Xytronic LF-853D Station. Solder, Desolder, Hot Air.
I have just done about 500 solder points with it, so no long term experience, but some first impressions.

The hot air unit did a great job soldering the diodes on the ergodox I`m typing on right now.
Heats up quick an has a high air flow (if you want to, I prefer less volume). Air flow and temperature are good to adjust.

The desoldering iron does a real good job, but you have to clean it about every 50 times you desoldered a part. But that`s no big deal...turning a part about 90 degrees, pull out a little glass container, clean it....up you go.
After long use (about 20min) the grip get rather warm, but nothing critical.

The soldering iron has a nice size, compared to my older Weller Station it`s a bit thinner. You get all sorts of tips for it, ranging from 0.8mm round tip to 3,2mm flat. That`s the biggest one I got, maybe there is more available.
Solder an Desolder irons heat up pretty quick (I can measure it if someone is interested).

I`m pretty happy with, in the next days there`s another clock project to solder...another ~250 soldering points. Another chance to test this big boy. 

Looked at a few reviews.   $600 is a more than I want to spend.      I can see pulling apart and putting together a couple of keyboards 4 or 5 times over the winter figuring out what I like best but after that the tools may sit in a box or go for sale on kijiji in the spring.

[tjcaustin]

I think it's time to start talking about some reworking the recommended list a little.  Let's take a week to discuss options at the sub-100 and 100 - 300 range options for both soldering and desoldering. With the influx of boards with SMT, I'd like to get some good hot air options, too.  In fact, I've been debating buying a hot air station for myself/business use, too. I think the upper range is still pretty much locked down with the edsyn 2020 or one of the production items mentioned that had temp sensing in the tip of the soldering wand instead of the wand handle.

I don't have any real knowledge of current sub 100 options besides the fx888d, but for 100 - 300, the edsyn 951sx(e) is still my preferred recommendation.  That's not to say a similarly priced weller wouldn't be comparable.  I think hakko is weak in this range because of how well they do the fx888d for the novice/hobbiest.

Someone had mentioned (PMed me, too) recommending a butane pen for the sub-$50 range and since that's what I used to learn how to solder anyways, I'm willing to open up discussion pertaining different options there as well. 

As to desoldering, if you're doing one or two boards ever, soldapullt from edsyn is still awesome.  If you're doing anything more, get the newest version of the hakko desoldering gun, FR-300.  Reviews are solid and I like how it works and feels to use.

So let's have it, guys.  I want to hear some recommendations to get this up to date.

[HoffmanMyster]

If you're doing anything more, get the newest version of the hakko desoldering gun, FR-300.  Reviews are solid and I like how it works and feels to use.

So you did end up getting one, then.  I also did, as I mentioned a little while back.

You've also owned both the 808 and the FR-300, so maybe you can comment as well, but I personally think that the FR-300 is a big step forward.  In principle, it's very similar, but the execution is really improved.  I love that it's lighter, quieter, and has both a power light and switch.  I originally paid around $180 for my 808, as I managed to get a good deal, and paid around $300 for the FR-300.  If I could have gotten the same deal on another 808, I would have preferred that.  But comparing retail prices, I think the FR-300 is totally worth it if you don't already own an 808.

That's my ramblings on the subject.