SP-SA Carbon Round 2

[T0mb3ry]

This is GB/Drop thread for SP-SA Carbon Round 2

Buy SP-SA Carbon here!

[T0mb3ry]

reserved.

[yookwh]

Hype!

[KnightDX]

Excitement is building! Was there a ETA on when it would ship on the MD page at all?

[richard912]

Hyped for Bone!!!

[ChitownM2]

Excitement is building! Was there a ETA on when it would ship on the MD page at all?

I'm sure there will be once it goes live tomorrow morning. Very curious to see how long the wait will be....

[zoomwalt]

So much for saving money this month.......

[isunktheship]

First page hype bump, wallet ready to flip inside out.

[a_ak57]

I'm so utterly terrified to see the final cost of everything I'll want to buy tomorrow.  But this is my favorite SA set and what got me into looking at custom keycaps in the first place, so I at least know I won't have buyer's remorse later on.

[zeshon]

Oh god... I'll be buying 8 different kits tomorrow, at least. RIP my wallet.

[Oblotzky]

So much for saving money this month.......

You'll be charged next month, so technically.....  )

[hervuli]

Drop looks great! Should have paid closer attention to the IC thread, but I'm curious about the Adaptive Alphas kit - as someone who much prefers uniform R3 SA to fully sculpted, this is an awesome option to have. But I don't see a corresponding kit for R3 modifiers; am I missing something?

[KaosJ]

There should be a mistake on massdrop   

https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/img_comment%2FIE0ubZGNS8W4JZ7xKUhF_asd.png?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=max&w=1300&h=760&dpr=1&q=80   


Also, can someone explain me the ADAPTIVE ALPHA, seems to be a all-R3 flat alphas, with an extra R2 that i don't understand and there are no modifiers kit in R3.  What i missed?   

[eddible]

Great to see this drop! However, on the IC it said:

When it will be made? - Soon. Sooner as you might think, thus you can keep the jokes about SPs leadtime for yourself.

Is March actually a sooner date than expected, or is there a chance that the ship date will be reviewed? I guess I was just hoping that MD had already reserved a production slot or something.

[kawasaki161]

Interesting to see that the bone extension kit is cheaper than the normal extension kit.

[iindigo]

Great to see this drop! However, on the IC it said:

When it will be made? - Soon. Sooner as you might think, thus you can keep the jokes about SPs leadtime for yourself.

Is March actually a sooner date than expected, or is there a chance that the ship date will be reviewed? I guess I was just hoping that MD had already reserved a production slot or something.

Yeah seriously, SP waits are always long but this is reaching a new level. Was hoping to do a carbon-based build as an xmas gift for someone but that's no longer a possibility.

If SP can't meet demand a little better I think maybe the community as a whole should start exploring the possibility of switching manufacturing to a company that's a little less lackadaisical.

[RubenMcNoobin]

YES! I'm so excited for this, even knowing full and well the kind of wait ahead of us before it's finally in our hands. Let's do this!

[a_ak57]

Added what I plan to get and over $300, and I didn't even put everything I'd like to get.

[haydoselefantes]

Massdrop shows Backspace in R2 profile for the regular modifiers. 

Is it safe to assume Backspace is R1 profile like it shows in the IC here?

[Arallu]

Massdrop shows Backspace in R2 profile for the regular modifiers. 

Is it safe to assume Backspace is R1 profile like it shows in the IC here?

Interesting, is that an error? It looks like the normal kit is 1-2-2-3-4-4 and the Bone kit is 1-1-2-3-4-4, but the extension kits both have R2 backspaces?

[T0mb3ry]

Massdrop shows Backspace in R2 profile for the regular modifiers. 

Is it safe to assume Backspace is R1 profile like it shows in the IC here?

Interesting, is that an error? It looks like the normal kit is 1-2-2-3-4-4 and the Bone kit is 1-1-2-3-4-4, but the extension kits both have R2 backspaces?

Its an error. Will be fixed next update.

[chuckdee]

Great to see this drop! However, on the IC it said:

When it will be made? - Soon. Sooner as you might think, thus you can keep the jokes about SPs leadtime for yourself.

Is March actually a sooner date than expected, or is there a chance that the ship date will be reviewed? I guess I was just hoping that MD had already reserved a production slot or something.

Yeah seriously, SP waits are always long but this is reaching a new level. Was hoping to do a carbon-based build as an xmas gift for someone but that's no longer a possibility.

If SP can't meet demand a little better I think maybe the community as a whole should start exploring the possibility of switching manufacturing to a company that's a little less lackadaisical.

That assumes that it is lackadaisical, and that there is another company with the same quality, and that they aren't trying to do something, but it just takes time and money.

[KaosJ]

Just out of curiosity, was the 1.75u R4 proposed in some kits (like common modifiers) and refused, or no one proposed it? 

Seems like, as expected i will have to buy an extra kit (extra modifiers) only for a damn R4 1.75u R-SHIFT.   

[bciamny]

congrats on this awesome gb t0mb3ry. i feel pretty confident that md is taking a loss on the warning sign kit. 36 keys (novelties at that) for $13 doesn't make sense and the additional drop point went away.

i hope we get to 100 moq for rolling bones. as the freshest concept in this round, it'd be awesome if it was a little more affordable.

[isunktheship]

Was a bit surprised to see drop 4 quantity at 200 - T0mb3ry did you doubt the demand for your set  (or maybe that's just as low as humanly possible)

The following have exceeded their highest MOQ tier:

• Alphas, 193.5% overfunded
• Modifiers kit, 109.5% overfunded
• Numpad kit, 95% overfunded
• Carbon novelties, 162% overfunded
• Arrows kit, 148% overfunded
• 6.25u spacebar, 16% overfunded
• Blank alphas, 4% overfunded

The following haven't reached Tier 1 MOQ (yet):

• Base modifiers extension, 44% underfunded
• DC kit, 28% underfunded
• Adaptive Alphas, 12% underfunded
• 40%, 62% underfunded
• Bone numpad kit, 36% underfunded
• Orange NORDEUK kit, 84% underfunded
• Exotic kit, 40% underfunded
• Flex kit, 12% underfunded
• Rolling bones, 6% underfunded
• Spacekeys, 64% underfunded

[chuckdee]

There should be a mistake on massdrop   

https://massdrop-s3.imgix.net/img_comment%2FIE0ubZGNS8W4JZ7xKUhF_asd.png?auto=format&fm=jpg&fit=max&w=1300&h=760&dpr=1&q=80   


Also, can someone explain me the ADAPTIVE ALPHA, seems to be a all-R3 flat alphas, with an extra R2 that i don't understand and there are no modifiers kit in R3.  What i missed?

It's for Planck.  t0mb3ry explained it via Slack.

[1:01] sry full uniform support is not available
[1:01] only for planck

[T0mb3ry]

Was a bit surprised to see drop 4 quantity at 200 - T0mb3ry did you doubt the demand for your set  (or maybe that's just as low as humanly possible)

The following have exceeded their highest MOQ tier:

• Alphas, 193.5% overfunded
• Modifiers kit, 109.5% overfunded
• Numpad kit, 95% overfunded
• Carbon novelties, 162% overfunded
• Arrows kit, 148% overfunded
• 6.25u spacebar, 16% overfunded
• Blank alphas, 4% overfunded

The following haven't reached Tier 1 MOQ (yet):

• Base modifiers extension, 44% underfunded
• DC kit, 28% underfunded
• Adaptive Alphas, 12% underfunded
• 40%, 62% underfunded
• Bone numpad kit, 36% underfunded
• Orange NORDEUK kit, 84% underfunded
• Exotic kit, 40% underfunded
• Flex kit, 12% underfunded
• Rolling bones, 6% underfunded
• Spacekeys, 64% underfunded

Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq .

Keep in mind i am not responsible for price drop points and moq. Its almost solely done by SP. Afaik SPs drop points are significant at the beginning but with higher MOQ reached, they become neglectable.

[jcc04]

Base modifier extent. is one of the problems with a weird bottom row... boo

[isunktheship]

Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq .

Keep in mind i am not responsible for price drop points and moq. Its almost solely done by SP. Afaik SPs drop points are significant at the beginning but with higher MOQ reached, they become neglectable.

I'm sure they will too, barely 10 hours into the drop!  Good to know how pricing works, makes sense that the savings become negligible.

[OracleKev]

> Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq.

T0mb3ry, frankly this is lame.
To be blunt, Mod Extension Kit is a fiasco.
I went to the GH IC thread and was surprised to find out that the Modifiers were initially a full set, but was subsequently split under the pretense of making things affordable with TKL.  While TKL might have eked out some gain, but everyone with non-standard layout are force fed an expensive kit with low utilization.

What also disturbed me was there were bunch of feedbacks multiple times in the IC discussion in this regard.  They were shut down.  Your quotes:
"Anyway TKL is the base - deal with it."
"the kits as FINALIZED. That means i do not take any new suggestion"

And now that the numbers are showing up proving the short sightedness of this decision, you say
"Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq" and I am not responsible for bunch of stuff!!!???

I'm a fan of your designs and recently I bought $379 worth of Yuri and told friends+family to get it.
If you are not listening to the community, why should we support you?

[bciamny]

> Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq.

T0mb3ry, frankly this is lame.
To be blunt, Mod Extension Kit is a fiasco.
I went to the GH IC thread and was surprised to find out that the Modifiers were initially a full set, but was subsequently split under the pretense of making things affordable with TKL.  While TKL might have eked out some gain, but everyone with non-standard layout are force fed an expensive kit with low utilization.

What also disturbed me was there were bunch of feedbacks multiple times in the IC discussion in this regard.  They were shut down.  Your quotes:
"Anyway TKL is the base - deal with it."
"the kits as FINALIZED. That means i do not take any new suggestion"

And now that the numbers are showing up proving the short sightedness of this decision, you say
"Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq" and I am not responsible for bunch of stuff!!!???

I'm a fan of your designs and recently I bought $379 worth of Yuri and told friends+family to get it.
If you are not listening to the community, why should we support you?

i think the tkl decision may have been in part due to how massdrop sees the economics of this playing out. in smaller gbs that don't use a platform like massdrop, it might make sense to make overinclusive modifier kits since they are usually catering to the interests of a few. in the past for geekhack sa gbs, that could have meant a mod kit that would be bigger to accomodate the various kinds of layouts that gh members sport. massdrop's audience is different and i think that also has to be given proper respect (since we are using their platform to increase the size of the gb).

for the keys included alpha + tkl = $83 for a 200 moq. dasher (the last sa md gb) had tkl for $68 for a 500 moq. jukebox of 2016 had a 750 moq (for base, 600+ moq for 60/tkl) that came out to $64. part of this is simply due to price increases by sp (probably accounting for some of the new investment in production mentioned in the godspeed gb). part of it is different moqs. but ultimately it hasn't really been the case that the keys in the extension sets were a part of the mod kits in past massdrop sa gbs.

in any case, your response seems a bit dramatic since it's only the first day of the drop. let's see where this ends up before drawing any conclusions.

[GroovyGI]

I cant wait to see all the talk about this set till they ship next year. I am happy I got my order in t Massdrop and no longer have to wait til the drop starts. I am very happy about Valve giving permission for the Lambda keys to be added to this set. So when will the GMK Carbon round 2 IC be starting, I didn't give all my money to Massdrop just yet.

Thanks T0mb3ry for making this happen again.

[OracleKev]

> Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq.

T0mb3ry, frankly this is lame.
To be blunt, Mod Extension Kit is a fiasco.
I went to the GH IC thread and was surprised to find out that the Modifiers were initially a full set, but was subsequently split under the pretense of making things affordable with TKL.  While TKL might have eked out some gain, but everyone with non-standard layout are force fed an expensive kit with low utilization.

What also disturbed me was there were bunch of feedbacks multiple times in the IC discussion in this regard.  They were shut down.  Your quotes:
"Anyway TKL is the base - deal with it."
"the kits as FINALIZED. That means i do not take any new suggestion"

And now that the numbers are showing up proving the short sightedness of this decision, you say
"Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq" and I am not responsible for bunch of stuff!!!???

I'm a fan of your designs and recently I bought $379 worth of Yuri and told friends+family to get it.
If you are not listening to the community, why should we support you?

i think the tkl decision may have been in part due to how massdrop sees the economics of this playing out. in smaller gbs that don't use a platform like massdrop, it might make sense to make overinclusive modifier kits since they are usually catering to the interests of a few. in the past for geekhack sa gbs, that could have meant a mod kit that would be bigger to accomodate the various kinds of layouts that gh members sport. massdrop's audience is different and i think that also has to be given proper respect (since we are using their platform to increase the size of the gb).

for the keys included alpha + tkl = $83 for a 200 moq. dasher (the last sa md gb) had tkl for $68 for a 500 moq. jukebox of 2016 had a 750 moq (for base, 600+ moq for 60/tkl) that came out to $64. part of this is simply due to price increases by sp (probably accounting for some of the new investment in production mentioned in the godspeed gb). part of it is different moqs. but ultimately it hasn't really been the case that the keys in the extension sets were a part of the mod kits in past massdrop sa gbs.

in any case, your response seems a bit dramatic since it's only the first day of the drop. let's see where this ends up before drawing any conclusions.

Thanks for your feedback.  Here is my observations after reading the IC discussion and watching how the drop is developing.
1. Community members provided feedback and debugging support via IC discussion and e-mails
2. Community members helped generate buzz on GH and MD
3. Decisions (schedule--drop/ship, kitting and pricing) and logic behind them are opaque, it's not even clear who decides what
4. There has been zero response to thorny questions at MD and here

I'm not going to draw conclusions here.  MD gets revenue, profit, leverage for hosting this drop.  What is the enthusiast community (narrowed down to be specific) getting for its contributions?

No problem seeing how this plays out.  Do you have criteria for success/fail?  I'm curious what you have in mind for metrics from the enthusiast community perspective.  I think we should have some version open up front, so we have something to reference and avoid hand waiving.

[bun]

Well, I said in the interest check that i'm interested, and now here I am all in for 6 kits:

* Alphas
* Modifiers Kit
* Modifiers Extension Kit
* Half-Life Lambda Kit
* Alternate Colorway
* Warning Signs

Total is $198.93 including shipping. The hurt sets in when I convert to $NZD so i'll just pretend that the dollar is 1 for 1.

Massdrop's buy page is a little odd... after buying alphas with a modifier kit as an option, it makes you specify alphas as "No, thanks" and add each subsequent kit as a single option.... strange.

This is my first keycap group buy so hoping that it all goes uneventfully well. I don't mind the wait until next year, which must be a sign of getting older. Hopefully i'll still be alive when they get here otherwise whoever is living here after i'm gone will be receiving mana from heaven and will hopefully appreciate it as such.

For those who are old hands at this, how long does it take for the feeling of horror to go away when spending so much money on these alluring little pieces of plastic?

And then there's nautilus next month too... 

[ehmlis]

[...]

For those who are old hands at this, how long does it take for the feeling of horror to go away when spending so much money on these alluring little pieces of plastic?

[...]

The feeling of horror goes away after a few days, only to resurface when you're planning to buy something new for your keyboard(s) and you suddenly realize how much you've really spent on it/them.

[xantiema]

Cannot design on my final layout design >.<

[xantiema]

Was a bit surprised to see drop 4 quantity at 200 - T0mb3ry did you doubt the demand for your set  (or maybe that's just as low as humanly possible)

The following have exceeded their highest MOQ tier:

• Alphas, 193.5% overfunded
• Modifiers kit, 109.5% overfunded
• Numpad kit, 95% overfunded
• Carbon novelties, 162% overfunded
• Arrows kit, 148% overfunded
• 6.25u spacebar, 16% overfunded
• Blank alphas, 4% overfunded

The following haven't reached Tier 1 MOQ (yet):

• Base modifiers extension, 44% underfunded
• DC kit, 28% underfunded
• Adaptive Alphas, 12% underfunded
• 40%, 62% underfunded
• Bone numpad kit, 36% underfunded
• Orange NORDEUK kit, 84% underfunded
• Exotic kit, 40% underfunded
• Flex kit, 12% underfunded
• Rolling bones, 6% underfunded
• Spacekeys, 64% underfunded

Where do you get this info? Any updated info? Include stuff such as ISO kits and Valve kits etc.

[chuckdee]

I'm not going to draw conclusions here.  MD gets revenue, profit, leverage for hosting this drop.  What is the enthusiast community (narrowed down to be specific) getting for its contributions?

A solid platform for the offering?  If it goes longer and you want to back out, you're free to do so.  If there is a problem with the caps, they will handle it.  They won't just disappear with your money.  You're guaranteed to get your caps.  Their prices are in line with the other company backed GBs (OCo/KeyClack).

Can you say all of that for any other non company backed GB?

[xantiema]

Isn't it 'were in line with'. This drop seems far more expensive than should be.

[nao]

Isn't it 'were in line with'. This drop seems far more expensive than should be.

Sure, they are not the same, but only a little. (Especially the standard layout)
I think that it is a harmful effect by producing many type of kits.

[chuckdee]

Isn't it 'were in line with'. This drop seems far more expensive than should be.

Sure, they are not the same, but only a little. (Especially the standard layout)
I think that it is a harmful effect by producing many type of kits.

Ding, ding, ding.

[xantiema]

How does one go on about checking what has been ordered so far?

[isunktheship]

How does one go on about checking what has been ordered so far?

Just refresh the massdrop page and check out the table, current image

ooo, new tier 5 for alphas @1000

[zslane]

What is the enthusiast community (narrowed down to be specific) getting for its contributions?

It's getting custom keycaps it can purchase. Is this a trick question?

Does the enthusiast community feel entitled to something more?

Determining kit composition is, in my view, the hardest and most exhausting aspect of designing a keycap set. You can't get anything resembling community consensus, and inevitably some subset of enthusiasts will gripe about the way the sets are arranged. The only way designers survive the process is to step away from the spotlight (on the forums especially) and stop listening/responding to all the noise.

[riktors]

Super pumped for the set. Hope the date gets pushed up at some point but I'd rather wait a while than pay the after market prices right now.

[OracleKev]

I'm not going to draw conclusions here.  MD gets revenue, profit, leverage for hosting this drop.  What is the enthusiast community (narrowed down to be specific) getting for its contributions?

A solid platform for the offering?  If it goes longer and you want to back out, you're free to do so.  If there is a problem with the caps, they will handle it.  They won't just disappear with your money.  You're guaranteed to get your caps.  Their prices are in line with the other company backed GBs (OCo/KeyClack).

Can you say all of that for any other non company backed GB?

"platform" - I don't know how you caught onto this lingo and sing this tune, but that's pretty nice label for a website with billing and time shared staff to handle moderation, fulfillment and customer service.
I don't know what scam you have been subjected to.  Things that you describe are basic business expectations.

Most importantly you haven't answered the question.  What is the enthusiast community (pls differentiate from Joe walking off street on MD site--people like you and me) getting?

[chuckdee]

I'm not going to draw conclusions here.  MD gets revenue, profit, leverage for hosting this drop.  What is the enthusiast community (narrowed down to be specific) getting for its contributions?

A solid platform for the offering?  If it goes longer and you want to back out, you're free to do so.  If there is a problem with the caps, they will handle it.  They won't just disappear with your money.  You're guaranteed to get your caps.  Their prices are in line with the other company backed GBs (OCo/KeyClack).

Can you say all of that for any other non company backed GB?

"platform" - I don't know how you caught onto this lingo and sing this tune, but that's pretty nice label for a website with billing and time shared staff to handle moderation, fulfillment and customer service.
I don't know what scam you have been subjected to.  Things that you describe are basic business expectations.

Most importantly you haven't answered the question.  What is the enthusiast community (pls differentiate from Joe walking off street on MD site--people like you and me) getting?

Look around on GH.  A lot of people have been scammed and taken years to get anything.  I did answer the question.  You just didn't like my answer.  You can also look at zslane a few posts up who answered in the simplest fashion... we're getting the caps. 

What more do you expect?

[T0mb3ry]

> Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq.

T0mb3ry, frankly this is lame.
To be blunt, Mod Extension Kit is a fiasco.
I went to the GH IC thread and was surprised to find out that the Modifiers were initially a full set, but was subsequently split under the pretense of making things affordable with TKL.  While TKL might have eked out some gain, but everyone with non-standard layout are force fed an expensive kit with low utilization.

What also disturbed me was there were bunch of feedbacks multiple times in the IC discussion in this regard.  They were shut down.  Your quotes:
"Anyway TKL is the base - deal with it."
"the kits as FINALIZED. That means i do not take any new suggestion"

And now that the numbers are showing up proving the short sightedness of this decision, you say
"Well i am sure other kits will hit their moq" and I am not responsible for bunch of stuff!!!???

I'm a fan of your designs and recently I bought $379 worth of Yuri and told friends+family to get it.
If you are not listening to the community, why should we support you?

i think the tkl decision may have been in part due to how massdrop sees the economics of this playing out. in smaller gbs that don't use a platform like massdrop, it might make sense to make overinclusive modifier kits since they are usually catering to the interests of a few. in the past for geekhack sa gbs, that could have meant a mod kit that would be bigger to accomodate the various kinds of layouts that gh members sport. massdrop's audience is different and i think that also has to be given proper respect (since we are using their platform to increase the size of the gb).

for the keys included alpha + tkl = $83 for a 200 moq. dasher (the last sa md gb) had tkl for $68 for a 500 moq. jukebox of 2016 had a 750 moq (for base, 600+ moq for 60/tkl) that came out to $64. part of this is simply due to price increases by sp (probably accounting for some of the new investment in production mentioned in the godspeed gb). part of it is different moqs. but ultimately it hasn't really been the case that the keys in the extension sets were a part of the mod kits in past massdrop sa gbs.

in any case, your response seems a bit dramatic since it's only the first day of the drop. let's see where this ends up before drawing any conclusions.

Making a suggestion does not mean i will fullfill it. If i see its not appropriate then i will not do it. But i've read every suggestion and made my thoughts to it. Anyway i am always thankfull for every suggestion even if it does not fit the setup.

[isunktheship]

What is the enthusiast community (pls differentiate from Joe walking off street on MD site--people like you and me) getting?

Given your 5 posts, I want to say this is either a brilliant troll, or you're an entitled bag of poop - creators owe you nothing.

[OracleKev]

Determining kit composition is, in my view, the hardest and most exhausting aspect of designing a keycap set. You can't get anything resembling community consensus, and inevitably some subset of enthusiasts will gripe about the way the sets are arranged. The only way designers survive the process is to step away from the spotlight (on the forums especially) and stop listening/responding to all the noise.

If you look through the IC discussion, the issues raised were legit concerns coming from multiple members.  They are not random individual gripes.

"step away from the spotlight (on the forums especially) and stop listening/responding to all the noise."
You gotta be kidding.  It's the designer who opens the discussions with the intention of getting feedback and engaging the community.  Are you not able to distinguish what is noise versus legit concerns from kit usability or community interests?

[zslane]

Engaging the community is not a process that lasts forever. Nor is every bit of feedback going to be found in the final product. Once a keyset is out of the IC phase, the time for offering feedback (and complaining that you aren't getting the kits you want at the price that suits you) is over. At that point, the designer has to step back and just let the GB run its course, having made all he decisions that are going to be made, knowing full well that some folks will be disappointed.

"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote." --Kosh Naranek

[OracleKev]

Engaging the community is not a process that lasts forever. Nor is every bit of feedback going to be found in the final product. Once a keyset is out of the IC phase, the time for offering feedback (and complaining that you aren't getting the kits you want at the price that suits you) is over. At that point, the designer has to step back and just let the GB run its course, having made all he decisions that are going to be made, knowing full well that some folks will be disappointed.

"The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote." --Kosh Naranek

Fair on the process and that everyone can't be satisfied.

I've done my part in raising awareness with the unsatisfactory IC phase and hand-wavy/lack of responses.
So, I'm willing to give this a rest if name calling and bodyguarding stop.

I want to note that this is not just me speaking out.  Multiple members indicated offline their feedback was ignored.
I just happen to be the guy [with 2 posts as of yesterday, so what] channeling / aggregating them.

[zslane]

Why are people feeling ignored? Assuming they realize that:

1. Not every concern or "gripe" that is heard and considered will affect the final product.

2. Not every concern or "gripe" is going to elicit a direct response in a forum IC thread.

And there is a logical fallacy that lends false weight to an opinion just because many people have expressed it. Chances are a suggestion or idea was rejected for valid reasons, and since those reasons have not become invalid the suggestion or idea continues to get rejected no matter how many people (continually) offer it up.

BTW, I've found that if designers aren't making the sets you'd like to see (particularly with regard to kit composition), then a highly effective solution is to design sets yourself and solve the problem directly and decisively.

[blighty]

Is the rolling bones kit the only kit with a beige on grey R4 1.5U novelty key?  I'm looking for something to use for a bottom row 1.5U function key that matches the bone mods. 

[a_ak57]

I don't really understand getting upset about kit setup at this point.  There was an IC that was a few months long, so there was plenty of time to argue with t0mb3ry about kit setups and gather support to prove your side right or whatever.  It's not like this is Originative and their sudden preorders (for Penumbra and such) where there is zero chance for community feedback before the chance to purchase, nor did t0m refuse to listen to any requests.


If there's any complaint it'd be about the lead time since we were originally given a different impression on how long that'd be, but I personally don't mind too much since I like this set enough I'll deal with it.

[OracleKev]

Let me just throw in another reference of comparison
/dev/tty https://www.massdrop.com/buy/37451

Look at the kit structure--gradual ramp for layout changes
Changes were accommodated in the course of the drop
Listen to the tone of the discussion

That's it.  Pls see me as a messenger, don't shoot!

[zslane]

I look forward to the day when there emerges a perfect way to run an IC, a perfect way to arrange kits, and a perfect way to run the group buy.

[Arallu]

All in for all the Bones! They'll make a nice pairing with Oblivion

[ChitownM2]

Let me just throw in another reference of comparison
/dev/tty https://www.massdrop.com/buy/37451

Look at the kit structure--gradual ramp for layout changes
Changes were accommodated in the course of the drop
Listen to the tone of the discussion

That's it.  Pls see me as a messenger, don't shoot!

Changes were accommodated during the drop because of the structure and circumstances of that specific drop. That was a completely new profile and is using a different manufacturer. The molds for that set don't even exist yet so the lead time on what is going to be produced is greater. For SA carbon, they have already locked in the pricing for the current kits and need to submit the order to get into the queue or my guess is they risk losing their production slot.

[chuckdee]

I look forward to the day when there emerges a perfect way to run an IC, a perfect way to arrange kits, and a perfect way to run the group buy.

There isn't.  And even if one was found... people would complain.  )

[T0mb3ry]

Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:

[bciamny]

Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:

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do you happen to know if the drop will occur before the end of the carbon drop?

[ChitownM2]

Spacebar looks amazing. I'll definitely be in for that.

On another note, how common is the 2-3-4-4 profile that carbon uses?  Seems like every other SA sweet uses 2-3-4-3.

[Arallu]

Spacebar looks amazing. I'll definitely be in for that.

On another note, how common is the 2-3-4-4 profile that carbon uses?  Seems like every other SA sweet uses 2-3-4-3.

Both are pretty popular: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5q4ua5/sa_keysets_and_their_profiles/

[T0mb3ry]

Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:

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do you happen to know if the drop will occur before the end of the carbon drop?

Dont have any data on this right now. I asume it may start during Carbon drop or after.

[a_ak57]

Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Matching artisan spacebar, that's pretty neat, I----

there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

SA Spacebars for topre

As if I needed to be more excited about this set.

[bun]

Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:

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WANT!

[khairolnizam]

Yes for the hammer spacebar!!!!

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[xantiema]

Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:

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Will it be made from perfect same color, and can you tell me what that layer ontop of the spacebar is on the rendering? Some sort of see-through plastic? Or is that just for the rendering and not on the key itself

[T0mb3ry]

Just to let you know there will be soon a drop for an Artisan Spacebar specially made by Hammer for SA Carbon. Afaik the artisan spacebars will be avaialble in diffirent sizes and very importantly there will be also Topre spacebars available. Say SA Spacebars for topre keyaboards like HHKB.

Here are some renders:

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Will it be made from perfect same color, and can you tell me what that layer ontop of the spacebar is on the rendering? Some sort of see-through plastic? Or is that just for the rendering and not on the key itself

The colors will be matched to Carbon colors. The top layer will transparent like displayed below:
https://instagram.com/p/BNdid5XB6PA/

[Arallu]

New update to order counts, lots of kits dopped in price (Rolling Bones for 49!) just need a few more Bones mods/numpads too

[xantiema]

Interesting to hear more about this artisan spacebar - I wonder if it'll be cold to the touch compared to key caps

[superpiya]

I have questions regarding the Blank Alphas. Per kit, we only receive 5 keycaps for each profile (R1-R2-R3-R4) with an extra R3 as Homing Key.

If I want to cover my alphas with Blank Alphas, I have to purchase three kits? Because R1 and R2 need at least 12 keycaps.

Why not make 6 keycaps for R1 and R2, 5 keycaps for R3 and R4, plus extra R3 Homing Key per kit?

[T0mb3ry]

I have questions regarding the Blank Alphas. Per kit, we only receive 5 keycaps for each profile (R1-R2-R3-R4) with an extra R3 as Homing Key.

If I want to cover my alphas with Blank Alphas, I have to purchase three kits? Because R1 and R2 need at least 12 keycaps.

Why not make 6 keycaps for R1 and R2, 5 keycaps for R3 and R4, plus extra R3 Homing Key per kit?

Hmm you are right. I will note this for the next possible drop. Keep in mind once drop have started i do no changes. For the time beign i'd like to suggest to use lambda keys or if possible to order some blancks from Pimp my Keyboard store (afaik they do sell blancks). The color code for alphas is WBO.

[kikan]

I have questions regarding the Blank Alphas. Per kit, we only receive 5 keycaps for each profile (R1-R2-R3-R4) with an extra R3 as Homing Key.

If I want to cover my alphas with Blank Alphas, I have to purchase three kits? Because R1 and R2 need at least 12 keycaps.

Why not make 6 keycaps for R1 and R2, 5 keycaps for R3 and R4, plus extra R3 Homing Key per kit?

Hmm you are right. I will note this for the next possible drop. Keep in mind once drop have started i do no changes. For the time beign i'd like to suggest to use lambda keys or if possible to order some blancks from Pimp my Keyboard store (afaik they do sell blancks). The color code for alphas is WBO.

Hi guys,

When I asked T0mb3ry about blanks alpha, it was for the Ergodox layout, so this might explain that ;-)

G


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[dsaf]

Given the numbers, would you consider a follow-up honeycomb novelty kit drop in 1-2 months with a further delivery date?

[T0mb3ry]

Given the numbers, would you consider a follow-up honeycomb novelty kit drop in 1-2 months with a further delivery date?

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Sorry i have no plans for follow-up drops. Also i've already discarded the idea of graphene mods.

[xantiema]

Any reason there is no Honey Comb ISO Enter-key? Seems like we are missing out again on some perfect design :/

[dead_pixel_design]

Are we going to see a R2 for GMK Carbon?

[ChitownM2]

Are we going to see a R2 for GMK Carbon?

Believe it was stated in the IC thread the answer is yes. Probably not until next year though

[Theconejo]

heads up to anyone not paying attention, drop was extended until june 29, and pushed back until april 5th

[a_ak57]

Wow, almost a month for the drop?  I guess that's good for people who wouldn't have the money in time, but not thrilled that this probably pushes back the other MD keycap drops.

[ChitownM2]

heads up to anyone not paying attention, drop was extended until june 29, and pushed back until april 5th

Yes, I loved how they specifically stated that extending the drop (by two weeks) wouldn't delay the shipping date...and then within minutes they updated the shipping date to two weeks later.  It's good for people who don't have the cash right now, but in the end it's going to result in very few extra sales. Nearly everyone in these keycap drops buys in the first 4 or 5 days or in the last 24 hours. All of the days in between are super slow with single digit increases in the # of kits sold.

[dsaf]

They also hinted it might take more than usual two years until the next drop. Thus making the quest for R2 perfection ever more important henceforth justifying top-up kit drops  .

[bciamny]

heads up to anyone not paying attention, drop was extended until june 29, and pushed back until april 5th

Yes, I loved how they specifically stated that extending the drop (by two weeks) wouldn't delay the shipping date...and then within minutes they updated the shipping date to two weeks later.  It's good for people who don't have the cash right now, but in the end it's going to result in very few extra sales. Nearly everyone in these keycap drops buys in the first 4 or 5 days or in the last 24 hours. All of the days in between are super slow with single digit increases in the # of kits sold.

kunal said that ship date push back was inadvertent and that the original ship date is still the target. so it seems like everyone wins here

[superpiya]

Quick question for the Hammer SA artisan spacebar.

I know the 6u (Topre) is centered stem, but is the 6u (Cherry MX) centered stem or offset stem?

[T0mb3ry]

Quick question for the Hammer SA artisan spacebar.

I know the 6u (Topre) is centered stem, but is the 6u (Cherry MX) centered stem or offset stem?

Unfortunately the 6u spacebar is available only for topre. The mx spacebar was just an error.

[superpiya]

Quick question for the Hammer SA artisan spacebar.

I know the 6u (Topre) is centered stem, but is the 6u (Cherry MX) centered stem or offset stem?

Unfortunately the 6u spacebar is available only for topre. The mx spacebar was just an error.

Yes, I've made up my mind when I saw the 'Sold Out' on 6u (Cherry MX) spacebar. Joined the drop for both 6u and 6.25u 

[Marvellion]

Hey T0mb3ry, could you do anything about Warning Kits being sold out? Its a pathetic move tbh.

[xantiema]

Hey T0mb3ry, could you do anything about Warning Kits being sold out? Its a pathetic move tbh.

It isn't sold out, but the price for everyone else will increase soon, whilst the other gets it for 13$.

This is making me consider dropping the set entirely.

You don't leave a mistake there since Day 1, Extend the drop so people can get another paycheck and then in the middle of the drop (weeks in) decide WITHOUT any warning, that you'll remove instantaneously and shaft the customer.

Guess GMK Laser will have an increased budget from me, unless this decision is either reverted (everyone pays the same), or entirely dishonored (everyone pays legitimate price).

[Marvellion]

Hey T0mb3ry, could you do anything about Warning Kits being sold out? Its a pathetic move tbh.

It isn't sold out, but the price for everyone else will increase soon, whilst the other gets it for 13$.

This is making me consider dropping the set entirely.

You don't leave a mistake there since Day 1, Extend the drop so people can get another paycheck and then in the middle of the drop (weeks in) decide WITHOUT any warning, that you'll remove instantaneously and shaft the customer.

Guess GMK Laser will have an increased budget from me, unless this decision is either reverted (everyone pays the same), or entirely dishonored (everyone pays legitimate price).

Thats what I plan to do too, I could get Laser novelties. It would be %100 fine to change the price at the start, I'm even fine with a notice 1 day before changing it. But they waited for it to hit 1k then instantly told people to p**s off.

[xantiema]

Yep, sad they pull this type of shenanigans on a T0mb3ry drop, wanted to support the awesome design, but ultimately my total budget remains the same, just spent differently.

[T0mb3ry]

Warning signs are available again. Just check the drop page again. There are now 4 warning signs kits. It took some time to work out the pricings for the new kits and it was not intentional to exasperate you in this regard. I hope you can understand.

[xantiema]

Warning signs are available again. Just check the drop page again. There are now 4 warning signs kits. It took some time to work out the pricings for the new kits and it was not intentional to exasperate you in this regard. I hope you can understand.

It is nice to see that they'll be available for people that ultimate were late to the drop, however pulling them away from people without a warning is bad business. People who were there from day 1 should've had them at the original pricing with a 12hour warning or so. Ultimately isn't their fault for waiting in an unlimited and extended drop. This is a mess created by MD and their silence over weeks. Man up for their mistakes is all I say.

[livingspeedbump]

Man up for their mistakes is all I say.

That is basically what they did. Mistakes happen, this one was handled well.

[chuckdee]

Agreed.  They kept the pricing for those whom had already joined (which was a big hit that they shared with SP) and are putting them back up with corrected pricing.  Your '12-hour window' would have resulted in a rush at the wrong prices.

[potatowire]

If there are any Vim fans here, with T0mb3ry's support, I am doing a small sale of Carbon Vimcaps on my site. I don't want to hijack this thread, but I've got one here, if you have any questions.

[T0mb3ry]

This month was very long Guess never had two drops in the rows.

Anyway thanks everybody for participation. And i am glad round 2 could set up new records again. Summing up all sold kits on spreadsheet and adding taobao orders - SP SA Carbon R2 sold more than 18320 kit units, which is really impressive

Thank you!

[potatowire]

Very, very impressive! That is amazing!

[drakeonyou]

Summing up all sold kits on spreadsheet and adding taobao orders - SP SA Carbon R2 sold more than 18320 kit units, which is really impressive

Thank you!
[/quote

I can hardly remember the cries of the people who said that this is too expensive.

[T0mb3ry]

[fax668]

Why are you taunting me with an amazing space bar that I didn't order!? 

[drakeonyou]

I am at the point where I am looking at my orders while mid production and I don't know what to do.

Do we have any information to fill the void I feel about this?

I am not new to this but, waiting sure sucks. Good thing is that my other Carbon goodies are on the way.

[T0mb3ry]

I am at the point where I am looking at my orders while mid production and I don't know what to do.

Do we have any information to fill the void I feel about this?

I am not new to this but, waiting sure sucks. Good thing is that my other Carbon goodies are on the way.

Sorry i got no info for the time being. Only that i can tell probably is that for now it looks like there will be no delays. But things might change for the good or bad.

[T0mb3ry]

Some of you might like these: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/hammer-sa-carbon-artisan-keycap

[Vadurr]

Some of you might like these: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/hammer-sa-carbon-artisan-keycap

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Whoaaa! Definitely interested in these!

[drakeonyou]

Those would look good with the rolling bones set.

[a_ak57]

Only a couple weeks now until I can toss these on my Norbatouch, be super hyped at the look of it then be brought down a little when I start typing and remember how MT3 feels better than SA.  But SA Carbon looks so damn nice it's gonna stay on there a while.

[T0mb3ry]

Doing QC right now. You'll get your sets soon if we dont find any issues. But it looks fine so far.

[dead_pixel_design]

Doing QC right now. You'll get your sets soon if we dont find any issues. But it looks fine so far.

Are you are the creator happy with how they came out?

[T0mb3ry]

Are you are the creator happy with how they came out?

Absolutely. They came out as i have foreseen those in my imagination. Looking at the idea which became reallity makes it even better

[dead_pixel_design]

Absolutely. They came out as i have foreseen those in my imagination. Looking at the idea which became reallity makes it even better

Cool, it's important to me that the end result meets the creator's expectation.

[mbsurfer]

Doing QC right now. You'll get your sets soon if we dont find any issues. But it looks fine so far.

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I'm so glad I added the salty kit to my order! Great job sir

[jdcarpe]

Wait, you ran a second round of this, and I missed this one too?!

FML

[T0mb3ry]

Wait, you ran a second round of this, and I missed this one too?!

FML

 

Probably you were not active at that time. The drop took place on June 2017.

[jdcarpe]

Wait, you ran a second round of this, and I missed this one too?!

FML

 

Probably you were not active at that time. The drop took place on June 2017.

Yeah, it was just bad timing. I’ll just have to pick one up when someone decides to sell. No worries!

[Theconejo]

How close did this set come out to r1 SA sets? I was wondering as I know a few people with r1 sets that wanted a few extra keys for layouts they didn’t have when they bought r1.

[T0mb3ry]

IMG_5233 by T0mb3ry, auf Flickr
IMG_5230 by T0mb3ry, auf Flickr
IMG_5257 by T0mb3ry, auf Flickr

How close did this set come out to r1 SA sets? I was wondering as I know a few people with r1 sets that wanted a few extra keys for layouts they didn’t have when they bought r1.

It uses the same colors so there should be no problems at all. The only problem possibly is that the old caps yellowed over time and are shiny. With time and usage that issue fades away.

[zslane]

Looks amazing!

[dead_pixel_design]

Absolutely blown away by these. Just got finished making sure none of them were dups/damaged and couldn't be more excited to get these on a board!

[kikan]

Absolutely blown away by these. Just got finished making sure none of them were dups/damaged and couldn't be more excited to get these on a board!

Nice!
Still waiting for mine to get delivered. They are already  in France so it should be soon ;-)


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[KaosJ]

dumb attempt:

ANYONE SELLING HIS CARBON ? 

[Peppermint216]

Got some round 2 warning signs from mm to pair with my round 1. Not sure if I read somewhere the orange was a different colour code, is that true?

[kikan]

Absolutely blown away by these. Just got finished making sure none of them were dups/damaged and couldn't be more excited to get these on a board!

Here’s my board, care to share yours ?



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[Oblotzky]

Got some round 2 warning signs from mm to pair with my round 1. Not sure if I read somewhere the orange was a different colour code, is that true?

The same color code was used, but due to ABS aging, and SP possibly having used a different batch of resin, a side by side comparison would make you think they are not the same.

[clik_clak]

Got some round 2 warning signs from mm to pair with my round 1. Not sure if I read somewhere the orange was a different colour code, is that true?

Unless your r1 was stored in a place that had no environmental influences at all (ie. sun, air, temp swings, moisture, etc.) your r1 will look slightly different - very different. Things age, that's just a fact.

[dead_pixel_design]

Absolutely blown away by these. Just got finished making sure none of them were dups/damaged and couldn't be more excited to get these on a board!

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Here’s my board, care to share yours ?

Very nice, I will try to get some good pictures and get one loaded up

[Lisinge]

If anyone got modifiers extension kit they don't need I'm interested. Missing that 1.75u to have a working board