[IC] Flatline Black and Cyan SA profile keyset (on hold see OP)

[LXXXIX]

zslane, instead of arguing with you, I think you really need to go back and re-examine the relationship SP has had with the community and what the community has done for SP.  Two key areas are the Cherry legend project and SA profile.  Without GH and DT, SA would not exist in the form it is today..

I agree completely. I don't think there's any doubt that GH and DT played a vital role in making the SA profile what it is today.

But I also think there is a misperception as to how important the SA profile (and our little community group buys) is to SP's overall business. I am convinced that the SA profile is way more important to us than it is to SP, on the whole. The revamp of PMK is, IMO, a bit of a red herring, at least in the sense that it is not really a way to gauge how community designs fit into the tapestry of SP's overall business.

If folks want to feel hurt because SP isn't treating them like business partners, that's their perogative. It just seems to me that boycotting the SA profile hurts us more than it hurts SP.

How do you justify paying more since we are just not someone like Massdrop?

I get your point, but if it "hurts" me so be it. I don't like the idea of being swindled just because I'm not a part of the cool clique . Do you?

[nubbinator]

When you played a vital role in making a company what they are today to the point where they have impacted production lines that have months of booked production time in advance as a direct result of the community, I think it's fair to be upset to be told we're being overlooked for other people out there.  Those are doors that would not have opened without GH and DT.

This has nothing to do with a given profile and boycotting a specific profile.  It has everything to do with the fact that SP would not be where they are today without the community and, as such, the community is rightfully pissed off that they're being cast aside like last week's girlfriend.

[Niomosy]

If the community wants treatment similar to MassDrop with regard to volume pricing, a singular entity would be the way to go.  Volume can be far more easily monitored for discounts in this fashion and it still allows individuals to contribute.

[zslane]

I think the principle is based on volume purchasing. I don't have access to MassDrop's purchase history with SP, or their purchase agreements, so there's no definitive way to see how the numbers "work". MassDrop isn't a clique, and viewing business transactions like they were high school social interactions feels to me like choosing entirely the wrong metaphor.

I mean, the notion of pricing according to quantity tiers is not a foreign one around here. MassDrop has the benefit of earning volume discounts, not on just each keyset project itself, but collectively on all the keyset projects for a year (or a quarter, or whatever). That probably earns them a whole other tier of discounts that no single project is likely to earn (unless your project is called Granite).

[LXXXIX]

If the community wants treatment similar to MassDrop with regard to volume pricing, a singular entity would be the way to go.  Volume can be far more easily monitored for discounts in this fashion and it still allows individuals to contribute.

Are you implying like a vendor? I'm not sure I understand.

[Niomosy]

If the community wants treatment similar to MassDrop with regard to volume pricing, a singular entity would be the way to go.  Volume can be far more easily monitored for discounts in this fashion and it still allows individuals to contribute.

Are you implying like a vendor? I'm not sure I understand.

Essentially, yes.  SP is a business that generally deals with other businesses.  They give discounts to businesses that purchase in large volume.  MassDrop is such a business.  If the community wants to continue community-run group buys and still receive that same discount pricing that's now reserved for larger clients, SP is going to want a single entity to deal with for tracking purposes.  Thus, a business or non-profit entity of some kind that can handle being the business face toward Signature Plastics.

[Sifo]

I don't know if you guys know and I'm not sure they want me to let you guys know, but this whole project was backed by the support of Originative and CtrlAlt. Without them I would have gotten nowhere. There is no exception for them and they'd get the same quotes as I have. Those 2 are some of the biggest vendors of our niche hobby and if they're going to get the same pricing there's not much we can do.

[hashbaz]

I mean, the notion of pricing according to quantity tiers is not a foreign one around here. MassDrop has the benefit of earning volume discounts, not on just each keyset project itself, but collectively on all the keyset projects for a year (or a quarter, or whatever). That probably earns them a whole other tier of discounts that no single project is likely to earn (unless your project is called Granite).

I think the F-U part is the artificial price increase for us, not the presumed discounts that Massdrop may or may not be getting. I've personally asked Melissa in the past about larger scale discounts like total keycaps ordered and she very flatly said "no, those don't exist". So it's not the same thing, it's a special deal that Massdrop no doubt negotiated, since that is literally their business model. Props to them, they do a good job for the most part. That part doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if we find out for sure (since this is all still speculation for the most part) that SP is artificially raising our costs in order to discourage us from working with them directly and shove us into using Massdrop or PMK. That is insulating and frustrating given that the entire enterprise of doing enthusiast group buys which Massdrop is now profiting from stems from enthusiasts working with SP directly.

[zslane]

When you played a vital role in making a company what they are today to the point where they have impacted production lines that have months of booked production time in advance as a direct result of the community, I think it's fair to be upset to be told we're being overlooked for other people out there.  Those are doors that would not have opened without GH and DT.

This has nothing to do with a given profile and boycotting a specific profile.  It has everything to do with the fact that SP would not be where they are today without the community and, as such, the community is rightfully pissed off that they're being cast aside like last week's girlfriend.

Except that you do realize that SA != (all of) SP. There is a lot more going on at SP than what rolls off their SA machines. I'm not so sure that helping one relatively obscure profile (SA) grow in popularity can be equated with "making SP the company it is today."

[Niomosy]

I wasn't aware of that, Sifo.  That is a bit disappointing, then, in terms of community effort potential.  It means even larger volume would be necessary to see any additional discounts beyond single set discounts we'd normally see.

Thank you for the update.

[zslane]

What would bother me is if we find out for sure (since this is all still speculation for the most part) that SP is artificially raising our costs in order to discourage us from working with them directly and shove us into using Massdrop or PMK.

Okay, but a lot of people already seem bothered by it, as if it were established fact--without a reasonable explanation, mind you--and not just "still speculation". But if it turns out to be true, then I would certainly see your point. I'd just like to reserve judgment until we have all the relevent facts. Everyone is just so quick to leap to the worst conclusion rather than accept the possibility that there is a non-biased (business-oriented) explanation for all the price variations we see.

[LXXXIX]

When you played a vital role in making a company what they are today to the point where they have impacted production lines that have months of booked production time in advance as a direct result of the community, I think it's fair to be upset to be told we're being overlooked for other people out there.  Those are doors that would not have opened without GH and DT.

This has nothing to do with a given profile and boycotting a specific profile.  It has everything to do with the fact that SP would not be where they are today without the community and, as such, the community is rightfully pissed off that they're being cast aside like last week's girlfriend.

Except that you do realize that SA != (all of) SP. There is a lot more going on at SP than what rolls off their SA machines. I'm not so sure that helping one relatively obscure profile (SA) grow in popularity can be equated with "making SP the company it is today."

SA doesn't even scratch the surface of all the successful GBs done on here though.

[nubbinator]

When you played a vital role in making a company what they are today to the point where they have impacted production lines that have months of booked production time in advance as a direct result of the community, I think it's fair to be upset to be told we're being overlooked for other people out there.  Those are doors that would not have opened without GH and DT.

This has nothing to do with a given profile and boycotting a specific profile.  It has everything to do with the fact that SP would not be where they are today without the community and, as such, the community is rightfully pissed off that they're being cast aside like last week's girlfriend.

Except that you do realize that SA != (all of) SP. There is a lot more going on at SP than what rolls off their SA machines. I'm not so sure that helping one relatively obscure profile (SA) grow in popularity can be equated with "making SP the company it is today."

OK, pardon the language, but are you deliberately trying to be this ****ing obtuse?  SA is currently impacted, that largely sprang out of DCS being impacted and people wanting to try some other profiles.  Without the communities, SP would not be rolling out DSA sets with the Infinity, they would not have done huge DCS runs, they would not have an impacted SA line.  The company as a whole has benefitted from the community and are where they are today because the community brought them to the fore in the keyboard enthusiast community.  Without GH and DT, they would be languishing and may have even folded by now.  Our communities enabled them to have limited dead time on their machines, which, from my understanding, was an issue they were having until the communities started to do group buys.

[Niomosy]

I mean, the notion of pricing according to quantity tiers is not a foreign one around here. MassDrop has the benefit of earning volume discounts, not on just each keyset project itself, but collectively on all the keyset projects for a year (or a quarter, or whatever). That probably earns them a whole other tier of discounts that no single project is likely to earn (unless your project is called Granite).

I think the F-U part is the artificial price increase for us, not the presumed discounts that Massdrop may or may not be getting. I've personally asked Melissa in the past about larger scale discounts like total keycaps ordered and she very flatly said "no, those don't exist". So it's not the same thing, it's a special deal that Massdrop no doubt negotiated, since that is literally their business model. Props to them, they do a good job for the most part. That part doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if we find out for sure (since this is all still speculation for the most part) that SP is artificially raising our costs in order to discourage us from working with them directly and shove us into using Massdrop or PMK. That is insulating and frustrating given that the entire enterprise of doing enthusiast group buys which Massdrop is now profiting from stems from enthusiasts working with SP directly.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if SP does want us to migrate toward MassDrop and PMK systems.  It's easier on them and I really can't fault them for doing so. 


Enthusiasts will still be working directly with SP on multiple aspects of caps and sets.  The change is that the business transactions will be centered around PMK and MassDrop to simplify things from their end.  Sure, MassDrop is profiting from this.  They've created a simplified purchasing and distribution system for group buys.  Personally, I'm happy they're here as I'd rather all group buys move to commercial entities than run privately.  Most shoe GMTO group buys are handled as such already.

[zslane]

Without GH and DT, they would be languishing and may have even folded by now.

If this is true, then it represents a complete dismantling of my understanding of SP as a business enterprise. That's not me being obtuse, it is me being utterly incredulous. And also a bit ignorant of the company's history and of its financial viability. You make it sound like they were on the verge of bankruptcy and that the custom keycap community practically saved it from the brink of death. If that is true, then consider me both astonished and sheepish for thinking SP had large commercial and industrial clients that represented the bulk of their revenue.

[Niomosy]

That's one hell of a claim.

[Jedi]

Can we get back to the IC?  This discussion belongs in the SP vendor forum no?

[tronbeaver]

Can we get back to the IC?  This discussion belongs in the SP vendor forum no?

Done!

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=79109.0

[Melvang]

Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages.  First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.

There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize.  While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment.  There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.

• Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
• They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
• They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive.  Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
• They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment.  If you think this come cheap, think again.  Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere.  On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
• Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
• They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.

So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.

[livingspeedbump]

Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages.  First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.

There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize.  While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment.  There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.

• Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
• They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
• They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive.  Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
• They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment.  If you think this come cheap, think again.  Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere.  On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
• Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
• They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.

So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.

These are all very valid points honestly, and should at least be considered until more is known.

[demik]

If GH wants to be in control of pricing, then GH needs to buy its own tooling. Until then you are at the mercy of whomever has the machines to make your widgets. There have been murmurs here and there about a Chinese manufacturer stepping up to the spherical keycap plate, but so far that's all we have...murmurs. Nobody is ready to compete with SP, and so the de facto monopoly reigns supreme.

GH did pay for a fair bit of tooling for SP, including working with them and sharing knowledge on correcting tooling and molds.  Maybe GH just needs to tell SP that no one else can use their molds that they funded or provided the knowledge on how to correct.

so, have somebody do it?

[Melvang]

If GH wants to be in control of pricing, then GH needs to buy its own tooling. Until then you are at the mercy of whomever has the machines to make your widgets. There have been murmurs here and there about a Chinese manufacturer stepping up to the spherical keycap plate, but so far that's all we have...murmurs. Nobody is ready to compete with SP, and so the de facto monopoly reigns supreme.

GH did pay for a fair bit of tooling for SP, including working with them and sharing knowledge on correcting tooling and molds.  Maybe GH just needs to tell SP that no one else can use their molds that they funded or provided the knowledge on how to correct.

so, have somebody do it?

If that was not in the agreement when the funding was done, it simply won't happen.  We FUNDED, we didn't buy from another source with specs for the molds to run on their equipment, ergo, GH does NOT own anything with regards to these molds.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages.  First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.

There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize.  While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment.  There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.

• Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
• They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
• They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive.  Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
• They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment.  If you think this come cheap, think again.  Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere.  On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
• Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
• They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.

So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.

A friend of mine works at a tool and die shop, and has expressed similar information to me. Also, I used to work for a company that had a rather large manufacturing floor which included injection molding machines. The sheer cost of labor to setup machinery is very expensive. So every time they have to change out a machine from producing caps for a larger purchaser to SA for us, this costs them time.

The fact of the matter is that we do not know the true cause of the price increase. And until this information is shared with us, this conversation is entirely speculation and is pretty pointless without this information. This is an IC for a desirable colorway at an affordable price and if we want to keep both of those things at this time, we may need to explore other possibilities (profiles, manufacturers, etc.)

[demik]

so basically.. tough ****? gg sp. melissa i thought we had something special ;-;

[Sifo]

Yeah I didn't mean to raise pitchforks I just wanted to explain to you guys what was going on. However regardless of the price raises, SP clearly stated a reason to give massdrop cheaper pricing over ourselves. That's what we're upset about, not the price raises.

[Lepidus]

Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages.  First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.

There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize.  While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment.  There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.

• Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
• They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
• They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive.  Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
• They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment.  If you think this come cheap, think again.  Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere.  On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
• Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
• They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.

So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.

Sure, there could be many reasons for the price increase. But why not for PMK Store and Massdrop buys?

[Melvang]

Alright, I have read up on the last 4-ish pages.  First off, the custom caps is likely no more than 15%-20% of their production numbers, we (custom keyboard community as a whole including GH, DT, rmk, MD) are expendable.

There are a few things that SP might be having to deal with that you guys may not realize.  While I personally don't deal with the money side of things, I do understand how much labor costs to fix and install equipment.  There are a number of factors OUTSIDE of SPs control that very will could be affecting costs.

• Their plastic supplier could have raised prices
• They could have just been faced with a MAJOR breakdown with their equipment
• They could be at the end or nearing the end of the life cycle for SA molds and having to get new molds made is expensive.  Tolerance for injection molding is incredibly tight, tolerances cost money at exponential rates
• They could be faced with environmental restrictions that could be causing them to have to install new air scrubbing equipment.  If you think this come cheap, think again.  Plastic injection molding can produce a lot of bad stuff that needs to be filtered out before it can be released into the atmosphere.  On top of the cost of the installation of this equipment, maintaining this equipment, the filter media, how much do you think it costs to dispose of the used media
• Cost for filter media and other possible hazardous waste may have gone up.
• They may also be increasing price as a function of supply/demand.

So before you guys grab pitch forks and light torches, please consider these other possibilities.

Sure, there could be many reasons for the price increase. But why not for PMK Store and Massdrop buys?

Very recent development that wasn't around when other stuff was quoted?  They can't really raise a quote in the middle of the incoming orders.  That would be like you going to a restaurant and they change the price after you order and expect you to pay the new price.

The reason MD gets the larger discount is due to the volume of caps produced between tooling changes.  This is on top of being a legit business, not just a community of random people.

[n__dles]

If GH wants to be in control of pricing, then GH needs to buy its own tooling. Until then you are at the mercy of whomever has the machines to make your widgets. There have been murmurs here and there about a Chinese manufacturer stepping up to the spherical keycap plate, but so far that's all we have...murmurs. Nobody is ready to compete with SP, and so the de facto monopoly reigns supreme.

GH did pay for a fair bit of tooling for SP, including working with them and sharing knowledge on correcting tooling and molds.  Maybe GH just needs to tell SP that no one else can use their molds that they funded or provided the knowledge on how to correct.

so, have somebody do it?

If that was not in the agreement when the funding was done, it simply won't happen.  We FUNDED, we didn't buy from another source with specs for the molds to run on their equipment, ergo, GH does NOT own anything with regards to these molds.

This.

If we lived in a world were GH had any rights to SP molds, your employer would also have rights to on job training and any other formation they paid for directly or indirectly. Would suck to have to pay a severance package when you left / give a % of future earnings to previous employers.

[bocahgundul]

What about GMK run? 

[gadzkun]

vote JTK RUN for an affordable and reasonable price!!! B-)
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)

[gadzkun]

damn double post

[Melvang]

I would be out for anything but SA.  Not that I don't like cherry profile, but I wanted the unique look of the SA profile, in these colors, on a Ti Smallfry board.

[zslane]

To be fair, that isn't a failure of negotiation on the GH community's part. I doubt GH could have enticed SP to sell exclusive mold ownership rights to them under any circumstances. 7bit's group buys have also "funded" new molds, plates, and tooling over the years, but 7bit owns none of it. From what I gather, there is no way SP's lawyers would have allowed a contract to leave their premises with language stating otherwise.

SP is careful to maintain ownership and control over everything that goes into or comes out of their machines. What we pay for only entitles us to keycaps, not ownership rights. They wouldn't have it any other way and I doubt we'll see much change in this area outside of a few concessions to designers with regard to partial "ownership" of their designs if Oobly's efforts are successful.

[zslane]

vote JTK RUN for an affordable and reasonable price!!! B-)
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)

I'm not familiar with GMK's group buy terms and conditions. In what way are their keysets "exclusive" where SP's are not?

[Melvang]

vote JTK RUN for an affordable and reasonable price!!! B-)
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)

I'm not familiar with GMK's group buy terms and conditions. In what way are their keysets "exclusive" where SP's are not?

They bought Cherry Corps old tooling for caps.  Proper thick Cherry profile.

[Lepidus]

vote JTK RUN for an affordable and reasonable price!!! B-)
vote GMK Run for an exclusive keyset!!! B-)

I'm not familiar with GMK's group buy terms and conditions. In what way are their keysets "exclusive" where SP's are not?

If you hit MOQ once, probably nobody will hit again :^)

[zslane]

Does MassDrop run group buys for GMK sets? If so, wouldn't that be an effective way to reach those MOQ numbers that GMK is so infamous for?

[Steezus]

Does MassDrop run group buys for GMK sets? If so, wouldn't that be an effective way to reach those MOQ numbers that GMK is so infamous for?

Yes they do but it's not always successful, GMK Snes for example.

[zslane]

Is the prevailing belief that GMK SNES would have fared better had it been run somewhere else?

I'm just trying to reach an understanding as to the most effective vehicle for seeing a GMK set reach its MOQ.

[Steezus]

Is the prevailing belief that GMK SNES would have fared better had it been run somewhere else?

I'm just trying to reach an understanding as to the most effective vehicle for seeing a GMK set reach its MOQ.

Not necessarily but it was Massdrop's fault more than anything but that was because they ran the buy at the worst timing ever right after the holidays.

[jdcarpe]

Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.

[n__dles]

Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.

Not calling you out, though I doubt it's accuracy. That means that every time that font is used someone has to authorize it. Who are those people?

[f1xedgear]

Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.

Not calling you out, though I doubt it's accuracy. That means that every time that font is used someone has to authorize it. Who are those people?

I believe it's hashbaz

[Sifo]

hash does

[zslane]

Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.

Okay, right, I think that is part of SP's terms and conditions. However, if I'm not mistaken, those same terms and conditions also allow anyone else to provide font outline files and pay for their own set of Cherry replica font legend plates if they want to. In other words, SP won't allow someone else to use GH's plates (without GH's permission), but that doesn't preclude someone else from making the same effort and paying for the same exact result.

From what I can tell, however, the same Ts&Cs don't seem to apply to shell molds, because otherwise 7bit would outright own quite a few of them, would he not?

[Niomosy]

Is the prevailing belief that GMK SNES would have fared better had it been run somewhere else?

I'm just trying to reach an understanding as to the most effective vehicle for seeing a GMK set reach its MOQ.

GMK SNES had two problems.  The first was the aforementioned choice of times to run the buy on the part of MassDrop.  The second is that the MoQ was higher due to the use of custom colors (500 instead of 250).

MassDrop has run other GMK buys, though.

[LXXXIX]

Wow, keyboard keycaps is SERIOUS business.

People keep asking for a GMK run which there is currently a GB going on right now that has Black and Cyan.

[LXXXIX]

Is the prevailing belief that GMK SNES would have fared better had it been run somewhere else?

I'm just trying to reach an understanding as to the most effective vehicle for seeing a GMK set reach its MOQ.

GMK SNES had two problems.  The first was the aforementioned choice of times to run the buy on the part of MassDrop.  The second is that the MoQ was higher due to the use of custom colors (500 instead of 250).

MassDrop has run other GMK buys, though.

Triumph Adler and several run of modifiers.

[Sifo]

Also, zslane, Geekhack or its representative does in fact own the rights to the legend molds for the Cherry replica font sometimes used in DCS sets. Or possibly the molds themselves. That's why you don't see it advertised on their site as an option for legend fonts.

Okay, right, I think that is part of SP's terms and conditions. However, if I'm not mistaken, those same terms and conditions also allow anyone else to provide font outline files and pay for their own set of Cherry replica font legend plates if they want to. In other words, SP won't allow someone else to use GH's plates (without GH's permission), but that doesn't preclude someone else from making the same effort and paying for the same exact result.

From what I can tell, however, the same Ts&Cs don't seem to apply to shell molds, because otherwise 7bit would outright own quite a few of them, would he not?

This is the same logic used at the conception of this set which was originally an exact copy of pulse because mito claimed that no one else could run a r2. Once I put the IC up he went ahead and announced his r2 after explicitly saying it would never happen again. So instead all efforts were shifted to creating our own improved set.

Unfortunately SP isn't going to budge on this pricing and I won't be taking it to pmk or MD. I am looking at alternative avenues to get it produced but no one else is currently offering SA profile so it's a bit of a challenge. I don't really want to run the set in another profile but I'll look into it..

Thats the status of this IC, you guys are free to discuss your theories elsewhere but the ONLY official statement given from SP on the issue is that we don't get discounted affordable pricing, even if we hit moq, because we are not Massdrop.

[Niomosy]

Out of curiosity, why the aversion to MassDrop?  If anything, it's a selling point for me.