Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:05:55
Post by: dgneo on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:12:52
Am currently budgeting $2k USD for various refunds. Money is not going to go out until I get a better picture of what has been sent and who got what. Anyone who got more value than what he paid for, will not be refunded. Not to be an SOB about it but it is just impossible to refund everyone. I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.
EDIT: You can check out your sale thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78531.0) for a pretty damn clear picture.
EDIT 2: More specifically, check out the Google Doc (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit) that's tracking who bought what, and what they actually received.
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:13:41
Good luck to all buyers and Gutz in this.
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:30:50
Good luck to everyone that was burned through this.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:36:28
Remember how you felt when you were wronged by others here? Let me remind you:
GhostofHarry,
I have treated you like a friend and supported your endeavor all the way, even though I did not need the keycaps. I have given you emotional and financial and spiritual support.
Like Dorkvader, you have given me nothing in return. I have volunteered to be the last person to receive your keycaps, and I have NOT received them while it seems others have.
Now after 14 months you have ignored all my PMs and I still have no keycaps nor refund (assuming you sold my keycaps which I said you could do). I have confirmed my address and paypal with you already.
If this is how you treat people who have been good to you, you can never hope to gain allies in work or life.
Yet this is how you respond to people who are currently in a similar position to that which you were in just a few short months ago:
A good many mistakes were made in the shipping out rush. Wife had to send over 80 packages within a few days and she’s not familiar with the descriptions. (And quite fed up too, so she just stuffed packages with whatever seemed right or approximately the same value.)
[...]
Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used. If I choose to escalate your complaint to a Return, you are going to have to pay a lot of money to ship stuff back to Singapore before you get refunded. We have shipping invoices that say 5kg and 10kg of ‘keyboards’ and ‘keyboard parts’, so sending me a postcard with a tracking number is going to get you hit with a buyer fraud charge.
Allow me to borrow a quote that describes your response fairly aptly...
I've tried many times.
[He] will do whatever he feels like, when he feels like it, and if he feels like it.
Don't stoop to this level.
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:46:38
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:52:50
How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.
One would hope he has a conscience.
Post by: kekman on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:54:45
Post by: Belfong on Fri, 13 May 2016, 08:58:18
wasn't shipping supposed to be paid for by buyers?Yeah, which also means what money he received from this sale is probably paltry. No way he could even turn any profit. And now, to incur additional costs. This is a very stressful situation to be in.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:05:47
wasn't shipping supposed to be paid for by buyers?Yeah, which also means what money he received from this sale is probably paltry. No way he could even turn any profit. And now, to incur additional costs. This is a very stressful situation to be in.
it's logical. remember that basically it's his wife's messy job that has gotten us in this.
let me give you an example.
gutz's position are from Singapore
there's A, from Australia, buying a 5kg box
there's B, from US, buying a 2kg box
assume that the shipping price from singapore to:
- Aus (5kg) is $25
- Aus (2kg) is $15
- US (5kg) is $60
- US(2kg) is $40
IF his wife are THAT messed up, to send a 5kg box to US and 2kg box to AUS,
so the calculation will be
Quote
money received from buyer: 25+40= $65
Quote
money spend: 60+15=$75that's already $10 loss.
this is really messed up, i hope we can solve this puzzle altogether..
and remind me not to get a wife.
by the way, my approach for this problem is;
can you identify what packet (we can raw-calculate the thing by size)was sent to who? at least you still have the shipping receipt, right?
Post by: ideus on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:09:47
You should also stop opening different threads to communicate about the issue, keep posting in only one thread; otherwise, it appears you are avoiding to answer the multiple complains, I think most of the people here are understanding guys that will allow you some room and time if you actually act to solve the problem, you cannot complain on those who already filed claims, because they are exercising their rights.
Post by: timerwin63 on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:11:25
How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.
I don't know what anyone else paid, but I paid $30 for a handful of caps, $35 for some switches, $18 for shipping (for $9.40 worth, less if it's SGD, it's printed on the box) and whatever the PP fees were, and I got what would be a $30 set of caps (I think, if bought brand new) that I can't even use due to my board's layout. He certainly didn't lose any money shipping anything to me. I'm not saying he made a net gain from the sale, just that saying he's losing money on shipping to everyone isn't necessarily accurate.
I know for many people, $90 isn't necessarily a huge deal, and it's a loss that many can swallow, but I'm living paycheck to paycheck and , and when I got that little bit of money to mess around with, I was excited to get something good.
If anyone else's experiences are similar to mine (on what's likely a considerably larger scale for some), I think people getting angry about this and demanding some kind of reparation is totally justifiable.
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:22:34
Am currently budgeting $2k USD for various refunds. Money is not going to go out until I get a better picture of what has been sent and who got what. Anyone who got more value than what he paid for, will not be refunded. Not to be an SOB about it but it is just impossible to refund everyone. I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.
You seem to be under a misconception, putting it mildly and generously. And are trying, inadvertently, or on purpose to spread that, and fear that no one will get anything. Our claims are not primarily against you- they are against buyer protection. If the claim is decided in our favour, Paypal pays for it if it is below a certain limit, and then pursues you for the money. First in the form of a chargeback, then in terms of a delinquency, and other collection activities. You don't want to take this lightly- they are very aggressive and very thorough.
Quote
4.3 Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and Claims. When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment sent to you plus any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason. This means that, in addition to any other liability, you will be responsible for the amount of the payment sent by the sender, plus the applicable Fees listed in Section 8 (Fees) of this Agreement if you lose a Claim or a Chargeback or if there is a Reversal of the payment. You agree to allow PayPal to recover any amounts due to PayPal by debiting your Balance. If there are insufficient funds in your Balance to cover your liability, you agree to reimburse PayPal through other means. If a sender of a payment files a Chargeback, the credit card issuer, not PayPal, will determine who wins the Chargeback.
4.4 Refund and Reversal Currencies. All refunds and reversals will be made in the same currency as the original transaction. If your transaction must be refunded or reversed and you do not have the correct currency available in your Balance, a currency conversion will be performed.
You've already violated a couple of restrictions which are going to work against you for any disputes, and I urge anyone that was charged these to make sure that these charges are enumerated in any dispute, i.e.:
Quote
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.
These are the references:
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Refunds-and-cancellations/WILL-I-GET-MY-MONEY-BACK/td-p/441743?profile.language=en-gb
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Security-and-protection/Recourse-if-I-win-claim-but-seller-has-no-money-in-their-account/td-p/209534?profile.language=en
https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/article/FAQ645/1
https://www.paypal.com/selfhelp/article/FAQ2378/4
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US#13. Protection for Buyers.
I am not unsympathetic to your struggles, and the magnitude of this issue. However, deflecting, guilt, and avoidance are not methods that will be accepted (at least by me) for resolution.
If you deal with people honestly and fairly, most will do the same with you, and give you the benefit of the doubt. You also have to know that no one is required to do so. The mistake was on your part, no matter what else you're going through. You need to own that. That's all I personally asked. And when I realized you weren't to that point, then other things kicked in.
Post by: gtxorb on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:35:50
At least 1 box went out totally wrong because I earmarked a box for that person’s stuff in March. He changed his orders several times so I procrastinated with packing, took out his granite keycaps, white and green switches, and eventually forgot that box hadn’t been packed. This guy had a big order, and he got 0% of his order. Instead he got only the keyboard kit which had occupied the box all along. He got very low value. Now I have no idea how to send him what he ordered.
Hi berserkfan, I believe who you talking about is me, I don't want any stuff I ordered before right now.
Since I just received 0% of my order, I want my money back.
Actually I used bank transfer, I am not sure if you CAN give my money back.
I have send you PM, but no response, please contact me if you see this.
Post by: mind_funeral on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:36:45
Example:
Quote
Joe Blow
123 Candy Land
The Moon
Paid for:
J.06
A.12
D.14
As far as double selling, your Paypal excuse makes no sense because I paid before anyone else (for my item on 4/20) with MONEYGRAM! I have not received any tracking or even confirmation that the item was shipped other than in the sale thread when you said:
If you paid before 22 April, most packages should go out 27 or 29 April. If you paid after 22 April, I will still try to get your stuff out in the same batch, but shipping may take place May 3.
You will be given the tracking number. Please follow the instructions on my shipping post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78531.msg2071707#msg2071707, and use the tracking number on either the Singpost.com or Speedpost.com.sg website. Once tracking says ‘accepted at the post office’, it’s out of my hands.
Regardless of my item being double sold and possibly not even shipped to me, you still picked up my Moneygram on May 9th!
You claim this,
Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used.
Yet I have no package, tracking, or even confirmation that anything was shipped to me. I understand that some people are getting something, but if/when nothing shows up to my door, what happens to my money?
Post by: demik on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:38:51
Post by: kekman on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:47:17
I find it hard to understand how the shipping got messed up. Berserk had a .Doc with all the items he was selling WITH a simple item number (ex J.06). Why was that .Doc not just referenced with a list of item numbers sold to a certain person and his address? I mean even the shipping weights were on that document.
Example:QuoteJoe Blow
123 Candy Land
The Moon
Paid for:
J.06
A.12
D.14
As far as double selling, your Paypal excuse makes no sense because I paid before anyone else (for my item on 4/20) with MONEYGRAM! I have not received any tracking or even confirmation that the item was shipped other than in the sale thread when you said:If you paid before 22 April, most packages should go out 27 or 29 April. If you paid after 22 April, I will still try to get your stuff out in the same batch, but shipping may take place May 3.
You will be given the tracking number. Please follow the instructions on my shipping post https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78531.msg2071707#msg2071707, and use the tracking number on either the Singpost.com or Speedpost.com.sg website. Once tracking says ‘accepted at the post office’, it’s out of my hands.
Regardless of my item being double sold and possibly not even shipped to me, you still picked up my Moneygram on May 9th!
You claim this,Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used.
Yet I have no package, tracking, or even confirmation that anything was shipped to me. I understand that some people are getting something, but if/when nothing shows up to my door, what happens to my money?
In the same situation.
Post by: mind_funeral on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:51:16
In the same situation.
Good luck, duder.
Post by: kekman on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:54:23
In the same situation.
Good luck, duder.
I wouldn't worry if I were you, somebody on craigslist will contact you saying he's got your stuff in a couple weeks time, just wait. :v
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 13 May 2016, 09:59:18
You who stood at the top, the control center, the financial hub of your sales and logistics operation, should have been able to manage everything better. What you have essentially done is walk into the room, and announce "hey guys, I'm an important guy who works way too hard so you guys should all feel sorry for me, and not be angry that I screwed you all over."
There is a very big difference between a mistake, and negligence. This is the latter. Get off your high horse and admit that you've basically done whatever the hell you wanted with stuff because you had no respect for anybody else's transactions. You set a mutual agreement between buyer (you) and seller (us) and simply not carry through. It is a lack of responsibility in carrying out the sale, and a lack of accountability in following through.
The problem here isn't the sale. The problem here is your attitude and approach to taking responsibility.
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 13 May 2016, 10:01:27
wasn't shipping supposed to be paid for by buyers?Yeah, which also means what money he received from this sale is probably paltry. No way he could even turn any profit. And now, to incur additional costs. This is a very stressful situation to be in.
it's logical. remember that basically it's his wife's messy job that has gotten us in this.
let me give you an example.
gutz's position are from Singapore
there's A, from Australia, buying a 5kg box
there's B, from US, buying a 2kg box
assume that the shipping price from singapore to:
- Aus (5kg) is $25
- Aus (2kg) is $15
- US (5kg) is $60
- US(2kg) is $40
IF his wife are THAT messed up, to send a 5kg box to US and 2kg box to AUS,
so the calculation will beQuotemoney received from buyer: 25+40= $65Quotemoney spend: 60+15=$75that's already $10 loss.
this is really messed up, i hope we can solve this puzzle altogether..
and remind me not to get a wife.
by the way, my approach for this problem is;
can you identify what packet (we can raw-calculate the thing by size)was sent to who? at least you still have the shipping receipt, right?
As a married person, and a person of responsibility, I'd never throw my wife under the bus like this. We're dealing with him, not his wife. And it's his responsibility, not his wife's. There should have been constraints placed to account for this. But that's hindsight at this point. I personally think we should take his wife out of the equation, especially as we're not talking with her, so don't know both sides.
In the end, this was a business arrangement. And a test of character in these transactions. As I'd not been burned before, I forgot this fact. We need to deal with this dispassionately and based on the facts of the situation.
And I can't say this enough... I wouldn't try to manually correct things just because you can locate who has your package.
- Some packages don't seem to be a complete order, at least from evidence so far
- It reduces your chances of having a successful dispute
- There are people not on this forum, or this was there first exposure to the forum.[/i]
- Some people will go down in relative package value. Some people have the potential to go way up.[/i]
- Some people will go down in relative package value. Some people have the potential to go way up.[/i]
Post by: Fire Brand on Fri, 13 May 2016, 10:18:28
He does hoff that's why he's willing to use 2k of his own money to try set things right, or did I misunderstand you?How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.
One would hope he has a conscience.
On a different matter as with what gutz says I wouldn't trust anyone now saying they got the wrong order or less as I feel like a load of people will just straight defraud him for more money now, unfortunate situation for both party's to be in
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Fri, 13 May 2016, 10:22:43
In the end, this was a business arrangement. And a test of character in these transactions. As I'd not been burned before, I forgot this fact. We need to deal with this dispassionately and based on the facts of the situation.
[/quote]
i agreed. basically when you're using your family member (that can't know the difference between granite set and a unicomp buckling spring keycaps) to pack and ship your things, you're already making one mistakes. didn't supervising it, and that's two mistakes. and it seems that his wife can't be patient too, bcause all the post gutz's making is just.. his wife being angry, angry and angry. add that to the equation, and i can only see nightmare.
Quote
And I can't say this enough... I wouldn't try to manually correct things just because you can locate who has your package.add people's honesty into it. and boom.
- Some packages don't seem to be a complete order, at least from evidence so far
- It reduces your chances of having a successful dispute
- There are people not on this forum, or this was there first exposure to the forum.[/i]
I've PM'd who I think my package belongs to. But he has not responded, and indeed has not been active on the forum. The assumptions in the users correcting this is that everyone can just get their packages. This is not the case because of this reason, and the double selling.
- Some people will go down in relative package value. Some people have the potential to go way up.[/i]
my package weren't worth that much, but i've used my entire 1 month allowance to buy it. and the one who have contacted me only get a bit of my package. the rest are all unknown. we're on the same boat, basically.[/list]
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 13 May 2016, 10:25:46
He does hoff that's why he's willing to use 2k of his own money to try set things right, or did I misunderstand you?How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.
One would hope he has a conscience.
That was in response to the comment about it being easier for him to "just close up shop and disappear". And if he does make things right, that's great, but the response so far doesn't exactly instill the most confidence.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 13 May 2016, 10:29:44
He does hoff that's why he's willing to use 2k of his own money to try set things right, or did I misunderstand you?How else can one solve this issue without incurring additional obscene cost? Shipping costs had sucked up most of the payment made to him. To refund would mean digging much deeper into his pockets. Don't forget he already made losses selling those keyboards. It's so much easier to just close up shop and disappear. I thought the fact that he's willing to fork out $2K to refund is the best he could have done under the circumstances. I hope people would try and work it out together and not take advantage of the situation.
One would hope he has a conscience.
On a different matter as with what gutz says I wouldn't trust anyone now saying they got the wrong order or less as I feel like a load of people will just straight defraud him for more money now, unfortunate situation for both party's to be in
I can't speak for others, but I've been reaching out to many users to compile items that were ordered (and confirmed), and comparing them to what was received. It's true, people might not be totally honest. It's true that what chuckdee has said, that if users act before making claims it will hurt their ability to make a claim.
I am personally burned by $400, and damn it the number of items double sold or just not showing up will undoubtedly result in someone getting burned. But my goal isn't to get 100% satisfaction for buyers anymore, that's impossible given the circumstances. But I want to at least help as many people as possible get closure once the appropriate actions are taken up with paypal/whoever else. Not everyone will be satisfied, not everyone will be honest. But if I can help equalise or flatten some of the loss/gains and distribute what items are out there to people who bought them, then that's definitely a better end to where we are now.
Post by: E3E on Fri, 13 May 2016, 11:19:41
Post by: biocalves on Fri, 13 May 2016, 11:19:47
I have (been) compiling(ed) a semi-thorough list of pm's of you confirming orders, payment details and comparing it to what was received by users. I have done it from a very bottoms up approach, with limited resources of knowing who even bought stuff from you.
You who stood at the top, the control center, the financial hub of your sales and logistics operation, should have been able to manage everything better. What you have essentially done is walk into the room, and announce "hey guys, I'm an important guy who works way too hard so you guys should all feel sorry for me, and not be angry that I screwed you all over."
There is a very big difference between a mistake, and negligence. This is the latter. Get off your high horse and admit that you've basically done whatever the hell you wanted with stuff because you had no respect for anybody else's transactions. You set a mutual agreement between buyer (you) and seller (us) and simply not carry through. It is a lack of responsibility in carrying out the sale, and a lack of accountability in following through.
The problem here isn't the sale. The problem here is your attitude and approach to taking responsibility.
This is exactly how I feel. I wanted to make concise points but every time I start writing a post it devolves into a 2 page rant, so I'll just say OP isn't the only one with a busy life and if you couldn't handle a sale of this magnitude you shouldn't have done it. People congregate to GH because of their passion for mechanicals, so we are bound to empathize with your situation and sure there are probably quite a few people who jumped in to buy things from you because you had great prices, but I honestly bought little knicknacks that I could live without to help clear some stuff out. What you've essentially done is preyed on the community who most likely understood your situation and took advantage. Given what this hobby costs, for me personally $130 isnt' a big loss, but rather an annoyance. What infuriates me is that you've put a dent in what has been and still is my current favorite board to be on with your attitude, and that, I will not forget.
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 13 May 2016, 11:21:39
You're a saint, Beserkerfan. I'm such a terrible person. I apologize greatly for the issues I have caused. Really, everyone should understand your side of the story. Please, you don't make mistakes.
Can we try to keep conversation above this level?
One would hope he has a conscience.He does hoff that's why he's willing to use 2k of his own money to try set things right, or did I misunderstand you?
On a different matter as with what gutz says I wouldn't trust anyone now saying they got the wrong order or less as I feel like a load of people will just straight defraud him for more money now, unfortunate situation for both party's to be in
That is mitigation- especially towards collections by payment agencies, i.e. to show that he's operating in good faith. In my accounting, however, he received 100% of the funds. 100% of the funds should go towards correcting if one is actually trying to rectify, perhaps minus additional shipping costs, but if he took that on himself rather than notifying the ones concerned and trying to work things out, that's even questionable. The first thing in this towards both parties getting on a better feeling would be a true accounting of amounts collected. The only money that is truly gone is that paid towards shipping.
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 13 May 2016, 11:24:12
Post by: E3E on Fri, 13 May 2016, 11:28:22
You're a saint, Beserkerfan. I'm such a terrible person. I apologize greatly for the issues I have caused. Really, everyone should understand your side of the story. Please, you don't make mistakes.
Can we try to keep conversation above this level?
Ya know, it's hard not to feel personally annoyed with someone who scapegoats you for no good reason and then tries to whitewash all the mix-ups they've had with orders they've sent out, right? Sounds a little bit like some double standards there, right?
Anyway, I'll step away from this thread. These orders and whatever has to be sorted in that vein do not concern me. Good luck to all who had their orders screwed up by Beserkerfan. I wish the best for you--the recipients.
Hopefully things get sorted.
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 13 May 2016, 11:28:44
wew lordy I am continuously impressed by the number of memes generated by a simple close-out sale. keep 'em coming folks
Thanks for the injected levity. It got a laugh out of me. And it wasn't totally sarcastic. :P
What memes have you collected so far?
You're a saint, Beserkerfan. I'm such a terrible person. I apologize greatly for the issues I have caused. Really, everyone should understand your side of the story. Please, you don't make mistakes.
Can we try to keep conversation above this level?
Ya know, it's hard not to feel personally annoyed with someone who scapegoats you for no good reason and then tries to whitewash all the mix-ups they've had with orders they've sent out, right? Sounds a little bit like some double standards there, right?
Anyway, I'll step away from this thread. These orders and whatever has to be sorted in that vein does not concern me. Good luck to all who had their orders screwed up by Beserkerfan. I wish the best for you--the recipients.
Hopefully things get sorted.
I'm trying to be constructive. If this degenerates into name-calling and negative emotions, it's less likely to get corrected in any good way. Feelings are high. When someone responds in a paypal dispute with thinly-veiled threats- yes, that makes me mad. But that anger in and of itself is not constructive. So I'm trying to keep it constructive, and be aboveboard with all concerned. I'm also conscious that this is a lot of people's first contact with the board, and even if PSA's are there, and it's not everyone's fault, it reflects badly on a community that I've come, in a short time, to really be invested in. So it was just a reminder, and perhaps food for thought, and I apologize if it came off otherwise. I'm trying to remind myself as much as everyone else involved, to try to take the high road in this, and work on solutions, not blame. If we concentrate on that, and coming together as a community, something that's bad can possibly at least have some positive outcome, right?
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 13 May 2016, 12:41:01
Post by: WhitePlate on Fri, 13 May 2016, 12:50:02
Post by: HannahPeach on Fri, 13 May 2016, 13:21:09
I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.
I'm 100% sure that this will work out perfectly for you, run away and the problems will basically just fade.
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 13 May 2016, 13:24:21
This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.
Nvm that's actually really obvious
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 13 May 2016, 13:59:16
Quote
Let’s be realistic about this.
All you've done is whine about your troubles instead of taking the steps to fix it. That same attitude translates and represents you and your mindset to how you approach the sales. The majority of people played to your rules - followed your requests when it came to payment terms, to requesting items or being clear in communication.
Quote
After getting a bunch of unconstructive demands from irate buyers... I’ll tell you all the unvarnished truth.
You instead deflect towards your wife, deflect towards work, deflect towards other people, but the fact of the matter is, the main character of the world isn't you and your hard and stressful life. What you did was neglect buyer/seller trust, neglect all the people who vouched for you, and neglect the importance of responsibility. Own your problems and fix them - truth is, the community shouldn't have to do your job.
the more I read the worse it gets.
Post by: ceflame on Fri, 13 May 2016, 14:01:02
This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.
off topic from this thread.. but seeing your profile picture of a japanese porn actress makes me oddly uncomfortable lol
Post by: Saiph on Fri, 13 May 2016, 14:03:59
I thought it was just some random girl :))This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.
off topic from this thread.. but seeing your profile picture of a japanese porn actress makes me oddly uncomfortable lol
Post by: TerryMathews on Fri, 13 May 2016, 14:55:37
These people bought from you. They fulfilled their end of the bargain. You need to fulfill your end. Taking the money and signing off is terrible, and in some jurisdictions is a crime. Put your big person pants on and handle your ****.
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 13 May 2016, 15:17:43
off topic from this thread.. but seeing your profile picture of a japanese porn actress makes me oddly uncomfortable lol0/10 lewd, 10/10 qt my man
Post by: Crossfire on Fri, 13 May 2016, 15:26:38
Quote
alh84001 wrote:I've posted this on 29 march on DT where the same user has shown his attitude towards a potential buyers. A big red flag for me and I'm really hoping you guys solve/refund your money and stuff with this guy.
Which one in the pics is Cooler Master Quickfire Rapid TKL?
berserkfan wrote:
My God, please, browse my albums. Surely you cannot fail to recognize a CM QFR? I believe I even pictured it with a box and it had its stock keycaps
My answer
Sectors C, J, B, M and P are a complete anarchy...It's the attitude you've got that discourages many of us from buying anything from you in the first place.
GLWS, I had my money ready but you won't see a single penny from me.
Crossfire▼
Post29 Mar 2016, 09:22
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 13 May 2016, 16:00:48
This is possibly the most poorly handled event I've ever seen on Geekhack, with the exception of intentional scams and GH60/Phantom.
off topic from this thread.. but seeing your profile picture of a japanese porn actress makes me oddly uncomfortable lol
Seconded
Post by: audax989 on Fri, 13 May 2016, 16:02:00
Post by: Baddy126 on Fri, 13 May 2016, 16:14:03
Post by: Sneaky Potato on Fri, 13 May 2016, 16:15:57
I had a terrible selling experience in April. I wish to just walk away from it all.
Wife is angry at me. I deserve the punishment.
I'm guessing you're going to have a lot more than an angry wife to deal with.
I think the biggest disappointment is the fact that these kinds of things break major trust with the community. You don't just get to "walk away from it all" when you owe people money or gave goods that were different from what was promised.
I hope everyone who payed this buffoon is able to gain some kind of restitution. PayPal is usually in favor of the buyer, so if you guys used them for payment you should be able to get something back. Don't let him tell you that "not everyone will get a refund, sorry". Charge back your order. Dispute the transaction. There need to be consequences for this kind of thing, and by charging back the payment, you're shifting the responsibility back to his shoulders (or wallet). Let him figure out how he's going to pay back PayPal, not you guys. I believe it's actually his responsibility to make shipping arrangements to get his stuff back if he sent you the wrong items, so technically you can get your money back and let him figure out how to get his stuff back.
That sounds harsh, but I've dealt with these kinds of people a lot outside of the keyboard world. There's always a story, but actions speak the loudest.
Post by: TerryMathews on Fri, 13 May 2016, 16:41:33
I believe it's actually his responsibility to make shipping arrangements to get his stuff back if he sent you the wrong items, so technically you can get your money back and let him figure out how to get his stuff back.
You are 100% correct, and to expound on this: he is responsible to make return shipping arrangements in advance either in the form of paying for the return shipping charges or providing a prepaid label. If you ship the stuff back assuming he will credit you for the return shipping, you might get stiffed and PayPal won't cover it because it wasn't a part of the original transaction.
Post by: LiquidEvilGaming on Fri, 13 May 2016, 18:27:37
Post by: LeCornet on Fri, 13 May 2016, 20:41:53
I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.
I'm 100% sure that this will work out perfectly for you, run away and the problems will basically just fade.
Well it did work for some folks...
Post by: Venatorious on Fri, 13 May 2016, 20:44:22
Post by: SixtyLife on Sat, 14 May 2016, 03:19:40
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sat, 14 May 2016, 05:13:08
does anyone know if paypal buyer protection refunds you money even if seller is completely broke?PayPal will refund the buyer, if they determine the seller is at fault. They will then seek funds from the seller to cover the costs that PayPal refunded. The seller isn't directly refunding the money but in the end they are losing the money.
Post by: HannahPeach on Sat, 14 May 2016, 05:20:19
so paypal will side with the buyer preemptively. I have a feeling the same will happen here.
Post by: ghostjuggernaut on Sat, 14 May 2016, 06:01:20
Often times the seller has no chance to prove that he didn't make any mistakes at all,Fortunately I think there is more than enough evidence for PP to side with the the buyers if they choose to submit disputes. Hopefully it doesn't come that and things can be properly sorted though.
so paypal will side with the buyer preemptively. I have a feeling the same will happen here.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 14 May 2016, 08:48:52
Often times the seller has no chance to prove that he didn't make any mistakes at all,Fortunately I think there is more than enough evidence for PP to side with the the buyers if they choose to submit disputes. Hopefully it doesn't come that and things can be properly sorted though.
so paypal will side with the buyer preemptively. I have a feeling the same will happen here.
This thread is proof enough.
Post by: FLFisherman on Sat, 14 May 2016, 08:59:36
Hello Everyone who bought stuff from me
Sorry for the delay. I am working very long hours now. Looks like I cannot retire peacefully from geekhack as planned.
A good many mistakes were made in the shipping out rush. Wife had to send over 80 packages within a few days and she’s not familiar with the descriptions. (And quite fed up too, so she just stuffed packages with whatever seemed right or approximately the same value.)
At least 1 box went out totally wrong because I earmarked a box for that person’s stuff in March. He changed his orders several times so I procrastinated with packing, took out his granite keycaps, white and green switches, and eventually forgot that box hadn’t been packed. This guy had a big order, and he got 0% of his order. Instead he got only the keyboard kit which had occupied the box all along. He got very low value. Now I have no idea how to send him what he ordered.
I do not know what was sent/ mis-sent to any particular person, and am currently unable to trace where the items he/she purchased were sent. It was a great rush to deal with so many complex and changing orders and I was not the one doing it but unfortunate family members. At least 5 people were still changing their orders on May 3; 3 people hadn’t paid and E3E outright refused to pay last minute after trolling me for a week. Several people threw me their addresses but never paid shipping nor responded to reminders.
There were a number of double-sold items. These tended to be cheap items that I didn’t take heed of, had dubious buyers inquiring about them and taking too long to pay, or which had complications like paypal refunds screwing up my records. The most expensive items like scarface keycaps, 87 key zinc blanks and Model M SSK were never double sold. For the double sold items, wife was supposed to just stuff buyers with unsold things because so many things were marked pending but actually unsold thanks to the usual sleazy dibs callers never coming through with payment.
A number of missent items had the correct buyer labelled. I believe the most constructive solution is to contact the intended recipient and send him/her the stuff. Several people I talked to on PM refused this solution, insisting that I refund them fully + pay for the shipping before they would even contemplate sending the legit buyer his property.
Let’s be realistic about this.
I am now very busy and work 7 days a week. I did not expect to be so ultra busy or I would not have planned my sale at this time. I sold things in a great rush and was under pressure to clear my house as planned. Until now I still have uncollected payments!
I do not have money to refund everyone fully. Nor do I have the desire to. I sold many things at literally pennies on the dollar. I gave away many things. I had a terrible selling experience in April. I wish to just walk away from it all.
Wife is angry at me. I deserve the punishment. And I have long vowed to family that I will stay away from geekhack until house is fixed. With my current skills, house won’t be fixed anytime soon.
My paypal account is currently depleted because I had to pull money asap to pay for shipping. There is no money left. See this negative amount? You can squeeze blood from a stone?
(Attachment Link)
After getting a bunch of unconstructive demands from irate buyers, I’m going to be my usual GutzGrouch self. I’ll tell you all the unvarnished truth.
Most of the costs involved shipping. That gives me little room to refund people for wrongly shipped things.
I do not live hand to mouth, and I certainly can put some money back into paypal account to refund dissatisfied people. But I can’t give everyone a full refund. Simple as that. And we won’t know what everyone got until all sea mail packages arrive. Obviously the people who got the least relative to what they were supposed to get, should get priority.
My original goal to clean out my house has been attained. All remaining keyboard items total less than 1 cubic meter. When I have time I can still go through my remaining stuff to see if there was unsent stuff that people paid for. Some personal stuff and lots of never-sold stuff got sent anyway so some people will get things they did not pay for. Lots of keycaps were used as filler in big boxes. This is especially in the case of my massdrop granite keycaps, which looked very ugly, old and shabby to my wife so she thought they had no value.
Laugh all you want. I am keeping no granites for myself. I even put out a review criticizing them, and directed most prospective buyers to the same review because I didn’t want dissatisfied buyers.
Am currently budgeting $2k USD for various refunds. Money is not going to go out until I get a better picture of what has been sent and who got what. Anyone who got more value than what he paid for, will not be refunded. Not to be an SOB about it but it is just impossible to refund everyone. I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.
I have good reason to suspect that some people got more, and are either keeping quiet, or else are claiming they got less since it is easier to join the chorus of Gutz-haters.
Some geekhackers are already showing their less attractive side here. 1 guy filed complaint without trying to contact me.
Turns out he received someone’s very substantial shipment. It was wrong, but it wasn’t low value stuff like a keyboard kit. It was almost certainly more than what he paid.
Then he claimed to paypal that I sent him damaged goods. (And admitted in the same complaint that they weren’t damaged, just someone else’s stuff.)
Then tried to sell the expensive keycaps sent to him by mistake, to someone else. That someone else told me. This guy had hidden the fact that wife sent him valuable keycaps.
Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used. If I choose to escalate your complaint to a Return, you are going to have to pay a lot of money to ship stuff back to Singapore before you get refunded. We have shipping invoices that say 5kg and 10kg of ‘keyboards’ and ‘keyboard parts’, so sending me a postcard with a tracking number is going to get you hit with a buyer fraud charge.
I am going to quote this post in case he tries to edit it. This post admits fault and will be extremely helpful should someone file a claim through PayPal.
The fact of the matter is that a seller is expected to deliver a product to their buyer as described. This clearly didn't happen. PayPal doesn't care about the personal situation of the seller (or the buyer). Here are the terms for buyer protection:
Your problem is either that:
you did not receive your purchase– “Not Received” (“NR”); or
your purchase is “Significantly Not as Described” (“SNAD”). Further information on what we mean by “SNAD” is set out in section 13.9.
Here are the full terms of section 13.9:
Your purchase is Significantly Not as Described if it is materially different from the last description of it that you received from the Payment Recipient before you paid for it (which, for exclusively online purchases, shall be taken to be the Payment Recipient’s description of the purchase in the relevant online listing) (“Purchase Description”). Here are some non-exhaustive examples:
You received a completely different item. For instance, you purchased a book and received a DVD or an empty box or the software that you received was not the software that was sold to you.
The condition of your purchase was misrepresented. For instance, the listing for an item said “new” and the item was used.
Your purchase was advertised as authentic but is not authentic.
Your purchase is missing major parts or features and the fact that these parts or features are missing was not disclosed in the listing.
You purchased 3 items from a Payment Recipient but received only 2.
Your purchase was damaged during postage.
Your purchase is not Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) if it is not materially different from the Purchase Description. Here are some non-exhaustive examples:
The defect in your purchase was correctly described by the Payment Recipient.
Your purchase was correctly described but you didn't want it after you received it.
Your purchase was correctly described but did not meet your expectations.
The item that you purchased has minor scratches and was listed as used condition.
An event you purchased tickets to was postponed.
It seems as though most individuals received significantly different items than what they ordered. It is well within the buyer's right to file a claim. However, keep in mind that once a claim is filed the seller's account is put on hold. This means that the seller will be unable to manually refund anyone else or make any additional purchases or money transfers. What this means is that as soon as one of you file a claim, nobody else is going to be making any transactions with berserkfan for a while.
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 14 May 2016, 09:18:33
What this means is that as soon as one of you file a claim, nobody else is going to be making any transactions with berserkfan for a while.
First, thanks for thinking to quote it. I'd not thought of that, and it is a good step. Second, this fact is what made me, after a little research, decide to file a claim as soon after receiving the package as I did. He seems to think that he can just make it go away by avoiding, deflecting blame, and offering partial solutions. We need to show him that he can't. And the way to do that is not by visiting him as some have proposed. But by going through proper channels and putting the financial pressure where it belongs... back on him.
Post by: yomammary on Sat, 14 May 2016, 09:25:52
Post by: appleonama on Sat, 14 May 2016, 09:27:16
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 14 May 2016, 11:21:57
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 14 May 2016, 11:50:07
No need to quote it, it has already been archived on archive.org.
Are you sure about that? When I went to archive.org for his original posting in the DONE! thread, it wasn't there. If he edits this, the same thing will happen. I spent a lot of time looking in caches for it, but only the new one was there.
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 14 May 2016, 12:15:09
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 14 May 2016, 12:40:29
https://web.archive.org/web/20160514171401/https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065
If he changes it, was my point. Can you find the earlier version of his sale thread? If so, I'd really appreciate it, because I haven't been able to find it.
Post by: berserkfan on Sat, 14 May 2016, 23:12:53
:mad:
I notice the mods reopened this thread. I really think any Hate On Gutz thread should be separate, but whatever.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sun, 15 May 2016, 03:30:52
Let's address this latest bull****, and explain why I've now escalated to Paypal and I am absolutely not going to return the keyboard or keycaps to beserkfan under any circumstances.
One, I got in touch with Meiosis after he pinged me believing they were possibly his keycaps. I found his name labeled on the bag. I took photos so that he could see I had his keycaps. I then told him that I would pay out of my pocket to ship them to him, because it was CONUS and a very small package. In other words, me being the nice guy that I am, covering beserkfan's ass on this one. I said nothing more than that he should consider filing a claim.
Meiosis' Keycaps: https://imgur.com/a/xcjgX
Why did I offer to do this? Because beserkfan asked me to ship this to a proxy at my expense, at which point he stated he would not send Scarpia his keyboard or a refund. Because he felt, and I quote, "he got too much stuff." Well no **** he got a ton of stuff - he paid a lot of money for it and the shipping. Returning the keyboard to the seller with the knowledge that he is defrauding the purchaser? Especially when I know who the purchaser is? That makes me a party to the fraud. I could be charged criminally.
Here's Scarpia's keyboard, and the keycaps, and somebody's rubber feet: https://imgur.com/a/GV8Vm
What I wanted, simply, is to know where my keyboards that I paid for were and how we would handle Scarpia's issue in a LEGITIMATE, LEGAL fashion. Simple as that. I did not bring up Meiosis because frankly, I don't trust beserkfan would ship those keycaps out either. So again, being the nice guy that I am and as you all saw, I said I would ensure those keycaps got delivered to their proper, legal owner as soon as possible.
If I ship out all of these items, what am I left with? Absolutely nothing. I will not be keeping one single part I received, because none of them are mine. No matter how far you stretch the wording, these items belong to other people. Period. Not only that, but I do not want zinc keycaps or a 60% board. I hate 60%. Do you know what beserkfan wanted me to do in exchange for nothing?
Pay out of my pocket for shipping to an unverified proxy in the US. Where he would not ship the items to the purchasers, nor would he refund the purchasers. And if I didn't do that, he threatened to insist I ship it to Singapore - at a cost of more than $100. Out of pocket. So yes, he was demanding I pay $100 for the princely reward of absolutely ****ing nothing!!
That's not how it works. And yes, I see now that Paypal ****ed up and marked it as Damaged. That is not how I filed it. I filed it as "WRONG ITEM" but apparently the site didn't take. Since I had no visibility into that, I had no idea. I've asked Paypal to correct it as part of the escalation. Nothing in the package was damaged, everything was well packed, and everything is still safe.
As it is, even if I reverse the charges, this is going to cost me money. Period. I have keycaps that need to go to their legal owner. I have a keyboard that somehow has to go to ****ing Sweden. This is not how I want to spend my weekend. It is not even in the same universe as what I want to be doing. Dealing with the angsty ragequitting BS from someone who refuses to accept responsibility for errors he already admitted he made? I do that enough at work. I have not one single desire to do it here.
Oh, and no beserkfan didn't send what he said to me. He sent nothing at all. My last PM from him was May 13th; my last Paypal communication was me telling him that expecting me to eat $100 in shipping and be a party to fraud was not an acceptable solution. All I wanted was for him to do something so very, stupidly, ridiculously reasonable: find out who has my keyboards and arrange correct shipping to me (which will cost less than I paid STILL), and arrange a way for me to get Scarpia and Meiosis their stuff.
Which speaks untold volumes about how he is handling this and how he intends to handle it. So now tomorrow, I'm going to have to bloody call Paypal, make sure they fixed the filing, and explain to them that the seller is being completely uncooperative, making absurd demands in violation of Paypal TOS, knows and has already admitted he screwed up, and has publicly stated that not only did he screw up he has no intention of issuing refunds or honoring his financial obligations.
There is literally no word for what he is doing other than criminal fraud. That's what it is, plain and simple. Don't even think of calling it anything else.
And I am now going to drink too much whiskey and go to bed. There are no words for how pissed off and utterly disappointed I am with Gutz. None at all.
Post by: codywanks on Sun, 15 May 2016, 04:53:04
Oh, and no beserkfan didn't send what he said to me. He sent nothing at all. My last PM from him was May 13th
well, to be fair,
Quote
Here is a message I wrote to ****wyrm. I haven’t sent it because it is too long to fit into a paypal dispute reply form.
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 09:21:30
Please attempt to stay civil and constructive here. I understand that many of you have lost money; as nice as it may feel to rant, it probably won't solve anything.
Post by: KRKS on Sun, 15 May 2016, 10:15:38
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:02:12
I'd like to ask for this thread to be locked for roughly two more days because le ledditors and MD apologists(thinking about three people in particular, you know who you are) are talking a lot about this right now and will pour oil into fire to make community-ran GB's look worse. Just look at some of the comments to this thread outside of GH to see that already being done. The topic needs calm and civil discussion, not drama escalators, and most people that aren't actually affected will forget by then.1. This isn't a groupbuy (I know a lot of people are misunderstanding that though)
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:26:16
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:27:32
I'd like to ask for this thread to be locked for roughly two more days because le ledditors and MD apologists(thinking about three people in particular, you know who you are) are talking a lot about this right now and will pour oil into fire to make community-ran GB's look worse. Just look at some of the comments to this thread outside of GH to see that already being done. The topic needs calm and civil discussion, not drama escalators, and most people that aren't actually affected will forget by then.1. This isn't a groupbuy (I know a lot of people are misunderstanding that though)
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
I agree. This is a thread for this issue, and you're not going to please everyone all the time trying to minimize it.
What I'd personally like is for this thread to be retitled something more appropriate, so those affected can come here to find out what happened, and communicate with each other. There are those that are affected that don't even have any idea of what's going on, and the thread title doesn't give any indication. Berserkfan/Gutz has said he's abandoning thread, and to a large extent, the problem he created. Handle our problems through official channels, and then communicate about what's been done/what can be done, and come together as a community is what I'd like and advocate for.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it.
This part is part of what is making the two so divisive, and I personally don't buy into it. Air_tree was on this board mostly, and mind_funeral on reddit. But mind_funeral went out of his way to help air_tree. Doesn't that say that enthusiasts are just people- and there are good ones and bad ones?
Post by: TerryMathews on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:32:49
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
I participate in both communities. Am I "toxic slime"?
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:34:59
Am I "toxic slime"?
Post by: demik on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:44:36
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:46:28
can i get a tl;dr. this dude always writes so damn much.
he got himself in too deep and isn't going to deliver to a bunch of people who bought **** from him. basically using his "cheap prices" as an excuse for why he shouldn't be held accountable because he was "so generous".
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:48:59
This is my last geekhack post. My selling experience in March/April was super unpleasant. I am tired of the many unreasonable, sleazy and selfish people on geekhack. Offering people a reasonable compromise doesn’t work. Everyone is all about ME FIRST and F YOU.
I want to speak to this, because he's again deflecting blame.
I asked a simple question before I escalated.
Quote
I ask the simple question: How are we going to correct the situation?
I was willing to work with him with anything reasonable. The first time I got deflections and non-answers. I gave the benefit of the doubt the first time, as it was the last line in a longer response (offering to use the money in the payment to ship the item back to him so he could send it once I was assured of the refund). The second time, I only included that sentence. I've received no response. So now that I've escalated, I have to wait until next week for paypal to do anything, even though he's already said he's not going to respond. In what world is he living where even when people are reasonable, he expects them just to do what he says and call that a compromise?
Post by: demik on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:51:12
can i get a tl;dr. this dude always writes so damn much.
he got himself in too deep and isn't going to deliver to a bunch of people who bought **** from him. basically using his "cheap prices" as an excuse for why he shouldn't be held accountable because he was "so generous".
lol aint this the same dude constantly making posts about ****ty sellers?
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:53:53
can i get a tl;dr. this dude always writes so damn much.
he got himself in too deep and isn't going to deliver to a bunch of people who bought **** from him. basically using his "cheap prices" as an excuse for why he shouldn't be held accountable because he was "so generous".
In fairness, he delivered. Just uniformly the wrong thing. And even though many of us actually paid him money, he expects us just to be satisfied with whatever we received.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:54:02
I mostly a DT user...
Am I "toxic slime"?
You'll note I excluded DT and spoke only to reddit. You might check the DT thread - I'm over there too. Also, not 100% positive, but still pretty sure you haven't been banned from here. I excluded DT because they're doing the same as we are here - trying to sort it out and get people the stuff they bought. If anyone thinks DT is pouring oil on the fire, I can only assume they aren't reading anything that was written.
Post by: demik on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:55:04
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
I participate in both communities. Am I "toxic slime"?
I mostly a DT user...
Am I "toxic slime"?
well... if you have to ask..
Post by: timerwin63 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:55:42
lol aint this the same dude constantly making posts about ****ty sellers?
Yup. Ironic, isn't it?
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:57:31
QFT.
Is your name ****ing literally "rootwyrm"? I little too meta for me buddy
Post by: TerryMathews on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:10:32
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
I participate in both communities. Am I "toxic slime"?I mostly a DT user...
Am I "toxic slime"?
well... if you have to ask..
Did you feel the air as the point went right over your head?
Post by: demik on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:12:02
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
I participate in both communities. Am I "toxic slime"?I mostly a DT user...
Am I "toxic slime"?
well... if you have to ask..
Did you feel the air as the point went right over your head?
ah, so you're one of those that can't tell when people are joking.
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:12:50
Did you feel the air as the point went right over your head?
pretty sure you're the one missing the joke mate
Post by: TerryMathews on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:16:38
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
I participate in both communities. Am I "toxic slime"?I mostly a DT user...
Am I "toxic slime"?
well... if you have to ask..
Did you feel the air as the point went right over your head?
ah, so you're one of those that can't tell when people are joking.
It's a little difficult to tell when there are people here who actually believe basically what you posted.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:16:53
can i get a tl;dr. this dude always writes so damn much.
he got himself in too deep and isn't going to deliver to a bunch of people who bought **** from him. basically using his "cheap prices" as an excuse for why he shouldn't be held accountable because he was "so generous".
In fairness, he delivered. Just uniformly the wrong thing. And even though many of us actually paid him money, he expects us just to be satisfied with whatever we received.
Yeah. And now he's also inflating prices astronomically in claiming we should be happy with what we got because it's somehow magically worth more than what was paid for it. And that's justification enough. See above re; claiming the Pure is at least $250 and a whole 7 zinc keycaps are worth $300.
Uh. No. Just flat out no. For one, he sold the keyboard for $100 and he sold the keycaps for <$50. You don't get to change the price after the sale - that's bait-and-switch fraud. Two, that's not even close to what I bought. I bought two full size keyboards, because I prefer full size keyboards. He was fully aware of this because we discussed several of his full size boards he desperately wanted rid of. He flat out told me to just offer him whatever. He tried to get me to take some F's and M's for shipping cost only too.
Well, I didn't. What I did was pay him his full asking price for both keyboards, full price for the Teensy 2.0++ with pins, he said he'd include blank keycaps he was going to throw out otherwise, and I even covered half the Paypal fees. Why? Because I felt it was a fair deal to both of us. How many people here would want a Shine 3 full size Ice Theme with heavy clears? Not many at all. How many people here would want a Shine 1 with jailhouse greens? Even fewer, I imagine.
What freaked me out though, was the fact that his immediate response when I let him know I got the wrong things. And opened a very polite, simple Paypal dispute which is required so that HE has a leg to stand on when somebody ELSE opens a dispute. I just said "hey, I got the wrong stuff. Can you help find my stuff?" His immediate response was to threaten to make me pay out of pocket to ship to Singapore, and to state flatly that he would not deliver Scarpia's keyboard because he thought Scarpia "got too much stuff." That was his initial response.
Meaning anyone who ships it back to him, that stuff is gone. Period. And if he gets your stuff? He is not going to ship you what you paid for if it's even slightly inconvenient to him - or if he just doesn't feel like it. I was willing to be sympathetic to his situation and the mistakes made. I would have considered things fully resolved and no refund owed at all if I got what I ordered. Right up until he said he said he wasn't willing to make the least effort for anyone.
Post by: demik on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:27:18
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
I participate in both communities. Am I "toxic slime"?I mostly a DT user...
Am I "toxic slime"?
well... if you have to ask..
Did you feel the air as the point went right over your head?
ah, so you're one of those that can't tell when people are joking.
It's a little difficult to tell when there are people here who actually believe basically what you posted.
nah, we have **** members on all 3 sites. none is better than the other.
but gh is cooler.
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:29:42
but gh is cooler.2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
I participate in both communities. Am I "toxic slime"?I mostly a DT user...
Am I "toxic slime"?
well... if you have to ask..
Did you feel the air as the point went right over your head?
ah, so you're one of those that can't tell when people are joking.
It's a little difficult to tell when there are people here who actually believe basically what you posted.
Let's get this straight. There is nothing cool about keyboards we're all lame as fk.
Post by: demik on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:35:29
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:37:46
speak for yourselfyou're even more lame af. Every nerd on this website tries to gag on you.
Post by: demik on Sun, 15 May 2016, 13:44:22
speak for yourselfyou're even more lame af. Every nerd on this website tries to gag on you.
dont make me expose you to them cats that dont know you
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sun, 15 May 2016, 14:00:41
this is truespeak for yourselfyou're even more lame af. Every nerd on this website tries to gag on you.
source: gag myself on demik daily
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 14:14:41
I hope that everyone will be able to get the stuff they paid for or get a refund, however the case may be.
Post by: shrubkeys on Sun, 15 May 2016, 15:18:38
I am going to quote this post in case he tries to edit it.
Nicely caught.
Post by: trenzafeeds on Sun, 15 May 2016, 15:25:00
Any further off-topic posts or attacks will be grounds for warnings.
Post by: jaffers on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:07:22
Now I think walking away from the situation is going to be extremely detrimental in the long run. This isn't just a hundred dollars or so, we are talking thousands of dollars, and if you think that by walking away from this paypal will just forget about it I think you are very wrong. I am not sure what paypal will do but I do assume that they will do something.
How you approach this now is a test of whether you are going to take this like a man and fix your mistakes. This is your responsibility after all
Post by: ika on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:11:39
Here is a message I wrote to ****wyrm. I haven’t sent it because it is too long to fit into a paypal dispute reply form.
I find that I have been painted into a corner.
I sold everything cheap to clear my house as quickly as possible.
I have not much left because even things that were not paid for, were often just shipped anyway for free.
To refund everyone is impossible. I cannot afford it, and the shipping alone for everyone was $2.8k USD.
So I have to pay $2.8k shipping to lose all my property before everyone is satisfied?
All complainants to date have admitted to paypal that we DID NOT send you garbage or useless things. They were wrong, not rubbish or empty boxes. ****sis's scarface keycaps alone are worth $48-$300 depending on what was put into the box that was sent to you, which I haven't seen.
You paid $162 for keyboards. The keyboard which you have admitted to receiving, cost me over $250 to buy and customize. And you got scarface keycaps also.
Normally the correct way to file complaint is ‘significantly not as described’ but you insisted on telling paypal ‘item is damaged’ instead. Why? Let me guess: you don’t think you can win a complaint if you admitted to getting more than what you paid.
You wanted a full refund without so much as return shipment to my CONUS-located proxy shipper , and you even encouraged ****sis to file a clearly fake complaint.
****sis claims he had no intention to do anything dishonest with his fake complaint that has been dismissed already by paypal. Unfortunately he went on to say that one of the keycaps he paid for, which was supposed to be Row 2, wasn’t Row 2. He kept pressing me for a Row 2 scarface keycap. (I don’t have any scarface anymore, btw.)
Now how would ****sis know with such certainty that he didn’t get a correct Row 2 keycap? I can’t tell by looking at a photo. I could only tell by laying them out in a row and looking at the entire row with one eye closed. That’s how I sorted out my scarface originally.
Obviously ****sis now has scarface in his possession, and he obviously is able to compare. So this guy got his order ok, except for one keycap wrong. And you encouraged him to tell paypal that his credit card got stolen. Do you really work for Wells Fargo as you claim?
Everything is a screwup caused by me asking someone else to help with the packing at a time when I could not do it myself. If you wanted to wait for me to pack personally it would take MONTHS and I didn't want to make people wait. Hell, if I had done the regular geekhack thing like how Dorkvader or Nubbinator does it, I could make people wait 2 years for their stuff. But I couldn't have done this because I long ago promised wife to clear my house by May. I can’t have so many boxes in my house for months, so everything had to go out fast.
Now paypal account is negative $1285.56. I repeat, NEGATIVE. I will not be adding money to this account, end of story.
I reiterate my offer. Send domestically in the same packaging to my US proxy shipper, and they will bulk ship back to me at a far better rate than USPS. That will save you a lot in shipping costs, and I can even warehouse the stuff at their place for months FOC. That warehousing function is very valuable to me because I really cannot host stuff in my house anymore.
Thanks to lack of time off from work during office hours, I haven’t even collected the payments for about half the people who paid by moneygram. The moneygram office will probably think I’m mad, but I’ll just pickup the cash and redirect some to you. I have your name and country, which is all I need for making a moneygram payment.
Alternatively you can continue pursuing your currently destructive route:
1) You file paypal complaint
2) Paypal reviews my entire account which is their custom. Most complainants including you have multipart orders, and all orders are for keyboards, keycaps, and keyboard parts.
3) Paypal rep goes crazy trying to figure out who owes what who is missing what who has gotten what for who. Yeah, same experience as what we had trying to ship out stuff.
4) Paypal complaints are the tip of the iceberg. Some orders made by bank transfer had 20+ components. Another dozen had at least 10 components. More than half of all orders were made off paypal. If Paypal rep already goes crazy with just reconciling 10 complaints, I could make them extra crazy by sending them my 465MB of photos, records, shipping label printouts, etc. Maybe I’ll print out a few dozen PMs as well, showing how some people changed their orders repeatedly, backed out, came back, changed modes of payment, etc.
5) Even a buyer-biased company like paypal cannot but help figure that these customers are impossible to satisfy. After reading 3 or 4 complaints Paypal rep decides he has had enough.
6) Paypal rep decides this is no scam, so he hits paypal’s default button. Everyone must return ship to me, tracked, in order to qualify for refund.
7) So, just incur the shipping cost, ship everything internationally back to my home. You asked for it. This is also really destructive to me as well, because I will get into severe trouble when packages start showing up in the mail filled with keyboards and parts that were supposed to be forever banished from my house.
8) By this point I am never going to put money back into my paypal account. It’s a black hole. I would rather conserve my $2k USD for refunding the people who paid via bank transfer/ moneygram and therefore have no easy recourse if they got substantially lower value than what they paid.
9) So I get a black mark on my credit statement put there by paypal. That’s unpleasant but tolerable. I’m not going to take out another housing loan in the next 50 years, and I’m never going to buy a car.
10) And you? You might even get into trouble for buyer fraud. If you choose to send me some feces marked as ‘keyboard’, customs will intercept and I will have official proof to show Paypal that you attempted to keep the keyboard and send me feces.
This is my last geekhack post. My selling experience in March/April was super unpleasant. I am tired of the many unreasonable, sleazy and selfish people on geekhack. Offering people a reasonable compromise doesn’t work. Everyone is all about ME FIRST and F YOU.
The F You attitude I'm seeing so much, is like the ridiculous people who came to me during April, with zero posts and some newly created account, and just said in some curt PM: "You are giving away Model Ms/ Multimeters/ Model F-122s? Here's my address."
As expected, it is the paypal people who are most unreasonable because they know pp is on their side.
Years ago I said I would never do a GB because of the terrible people. I never expected to be doing the equivalent of one myself.
I’m locking this thread so people can see this is intended as a definitive reply.
I know the mods well enough that they can exercise mod powers to reopen this thread if they so wish. But I am 100% sick and tired of geekhack and all the people, so don’t expect me to show up here again. I strongly recommend creating a new Hate On Gutz thread so that all of you can rant.
Last but not least, if you are ever planning a group buy, let me repeat the same advice I've always said: DON'T.
I am going to quote this for posterity, seeing as how the OP has been removed. tldr for me but may be relevant for those pursuing action
Post by: Signature on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:13:56
More
(http://i.imgur.com/SvBbTgv.jpg)
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:20:01
Post by: blighty on Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:39:35
I have removed several off-topic posts from this thread, and issued warnings to everyone involved. Please don't make it necessary for me to do so a second time.
I actually lol'd at off-topic posts in an off-topic thread.
On point, Paypal will refund up to $30 dollars in shipping items back (USA users, at least).
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/returns
copy/paste of terms below
Eligibility Requirements – When can I use the Return Shipping on Us service?
You may use the Return Shipping on Us Service to obtain reimbursement of return shipping costs for items purchased online, if the following conditions are met:
You must activate the Service before you attempt to submit a refund request, by clicking the “Agree & Activate Now” button on the Return Shipping on Us service website and logging in to your PayPal account.
You must hold a U.S. PayPal account that is not suspended or limited;
You must pay for your online purchase, including the item(s) you wish to return, entirely using your PayPal account between February 1, 2016 and December 31, 2016;
You must initiate your return within the return period of February 1, 2016 – December 31, 2016 and in accordance with the return conditions authorized by the seller or merchant; and
You must submit a complete refund request of the return shipping costs (hereinafter: the "Refund request”) related to that return within 14 calendar days of mailing back the returned item and the refund request must be submitted between the period of February 1, 2016 – December 31, 2016. The refund request is an online form found here and is accessible only to users who have activated the service. PayPal does not reimburse any other fees associated with the return.
You will have 14 calendar days to submit a Refund request from the date on which you returned your item via mail, except that all Refund requests must be submitted no later than December 31, 2016.
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 15 May 2016, 17:02:51
Post by: nugglets on Sun, 15 May 2016, 19:23:44
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
The mods removed posts they deemed "off-topic." Since this is up I'm going to assume it's somehow on topic. Which means I should be able to respond to tell this guy what a monumental ******* he's being without addressing the situation at hand, right? Cool.
The irony here is incredible. This is easily the most spiteful, inflammatory and absolutely ridiculous post I've read on either site and yet you're saying it while talking about how much better you are as a person. Bravo, sir. That is some next level hypocrisy.
Also, you know the guy who made that spreadsheet, asked for PM's of proof and has taken it upon himself to try to give everyone the clearest picture possible of where their stuff ended up so that this cluster**** might end a little better?
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal_gone_south/d34hp7k
"I am first and foremost a redditor," he says. One of those dirty "jagoffs" who would never "make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for."
Post by: jaffers on Sun, 15 May 2016, 20:08:29
****ing top kek mate
Quote
Also, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****
Post by: Floody on Sun, 15 May 2016, 20:15:52
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9I remember that he had Cigarettes in his free stuff post and I guess he just threw them in.
****ing top kek mateQuoteAlso, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****
Post by: appleonama on Sun, 15 May 2016, 20:28:05
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9
****ing top kek mateQuoteAlso, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****
Mod's where is my warning? Too much inequality on this forum. Its cause I'm Mexican, huh?
Anyways, in an attempt to stay on topic, what are the chances of user getting their money back? Many paypal claims on one account is just going to freeze it up and refunds are going to be withheld. Is there a safety net in place on paypals part for a large amount of refunds?
Post by: demik on Sun, 15 May 2016, 20:28:19
Post by: gtxorb on Sun, 15 May 2016, 21:37:44
Here is a message I wrote to ****wyrm. I haven’t sent it because it is too long to fit into a paypal dispute reply form.
I find that I have been painted into a corner.
I sold everything cheap to clear my house as quickly as possible.
I have not much left because even things that were not paid for, were often just shipped anyway for free.
To refund everyone is impossible. I cannot afford it, and the shipping alone for everyone was $2.8k USD.
So I have to pay $2.8k shipping to lose all my property before everyone is satisfied?
All complainants to date have admitted to paypal that we DID NOT send you garbage or useless things. They were wrong, not rubbish or empty boxes. ****sis's scarface keycaps alone are worth $48-$300 depending on what was put into the box that was sent to you, which I haven't seen.
You paid $162 for keyboards. The keyboard which you have admitted to receiving, cost me over $250 to buy and customize. And you got scarface keycaps also.
Normally the correct way to file complaint is ‘significantly not as described’ but you insisted on telling paypal ‘item is damaged’ instead. Why? Let me guess: you don’t think you can win a complaint if you admitted to getting more than what you paid.
You wanted a full refund without so much as return shipment to my CONUS-located proxy shipper , and you even encouraged ****sis to file a clearly fake complaint.
****sis claims he had no intention to do anything dishonest with his fake complaint that has been dismissed already by paypal. Unfortunately he went on to say that one of the keycaps he paid for, which was supposed to be Row 2, wasn’t Row 2. He kept pressing me for a Row 2 scarface keycap. (I don’t have any scarface anymore, btw.)
Now how would ****sis know with such certainty that he didn’t get a correct Row 2 keycap? I can’t tell by looking at a photo. I could only tell by laying them out in a row and looking at the entire row with one eye closed. That’s how I sorted out my scarface originally.
Obviously ****sis now has scarface in his possession, and he obviously is able to compare. So this guy got his order ok, except for one keycap wrong. And you encouraged him to tell paypal that his credit card got stolen. Do you really work for Wells Fargo as you claim?
Everything is a screwup caused by me asking someone else to help with the packing at a time when I could not do it myself. If you wanted to wait for me to pack personally it would take MONTHS and I didn't want to make people wait. Hell, if I had done the regular geekhack thing like how Dorkvader or Nubbinator does it, I could make people wait 2 years for their stuff. But I couldn't have done this because I long ago promised wife to clear my house by May. I can’t have so many boxes in my house for months, so everything had to go out fast.
Now paypal account is negative $1285.56. I repeat, NEGATIVE. I will not be adding money to this account, end of story.
I reiterate my offer. Send domestically in the same packaging to my US proxy shipper, and they will bulk ship back to me at a far better rate than USPS. That will save you a lot in shipping costs, and I can even warehouse the stuff at their place for months FOC. That warehousing function is very valuable to me because I really cannot host stuff in my house anymore.
Thanks to lack of time off from work during office hours, I haven’t even collected the payments for about half the people who paid by moneygram. The moneygram office will probably think I’m mad, but I’ll just pickup the cash and redirect some to you. I have your name and country, which is all I need for making a moneygram payment.
Alternatively you can continue pursuing your currently destructive route:
1) You file paypal complaint
2) Paypal reviews my entire account which is their custom. Most complainants including you have multipart orders, and all orders are for keyboards, keycaps, and keyboard parts.
3) Paypal rep goes crazy trying to figure out who owes what who is missing what who has gotten what for who. Yeah, same experience as what we had trying to ship out stuff.
4) Paypal complaints are the tip of the iceberg. Some orders made by bank transfer had 20+ components. Another dozen had at least 10 components. More than half of all orders were made off paypal. If Paypal rep already goes crazy with just reconciling 10 complaints, I could make them extra crazy by sending them my 465MB of photos, records, shipping label printouts, etc. Maybe I’ll print out a few dozen PMs as well, showing how some people changed their orders repeatedly, backed out, came back, changed modes of payment, etc.
5) Even a buyer-biased company like paypal cannot but help figure that these customers are impossible to satisfy. After reading 3 or 4 complaints Paypal rep decides he has had enough.
6) Paypal rep decides this is no scam, so he hits paypal’s default button. Everyone must return ship to me, tracked, in order to qualify for refund.
7) So, just incur the shipping cost, ship everything internationally back to my home. You asked for it. This is also really destructive to me as well, because I will get into severe trouble when packages start showing up in the mail filled with keyboards and parts that were supposed to be forever banished from my house.
8) By this point I am never going to put money back into my paypal account. It’s a black hole. I would rather conserve my $2k USD for refunding the people who paid via bank transfer/ moneygram and therefore have no easy recourse if they got substantially lower value than what they paid.
9) So I get a black mark on my credit statement put there by paypal. That’s unpleasant but tolerable. I’m not going to take out another housing loan in the next 50 years, and I’m never going to buy a car.
10) And you? You might even get into trouble for buyer fraud. If you choose to send me some feces marked as ‘keyboard’, customs will intercept and I will have official proof to show Paypal that you attempted to keep the keyboard and send me feces.
This is my last geekhack post. My selling experience in March/April was super unpleasant. I am tired of the many unreasonable, sleazy and selfish people on geekhack. Offering people a reasonable compromise doesn’t work. Everyone is all about ME FIRST and F YOU.
The F You attitude I'm seeing so much, is like the ridiculous people who came to me during April, with zero posts and some newly created account, and just said in some curt PM: "You are giving away Model Ms/ Multimeters/ Model F-122s? Here's my address."
As expected, it is the paypal people who are most unreasonable because they know pp is on their side.
Years ago I said I would never do a GB because of the terrible people. I never expected to be doing the equivalent of one myself.
I’m locking this thread so people can see this is intended as a definitive reply.
I know the mods well enough that they can exercise mod powers to reopen this thread if they so wish. But I am 100% sick and tired of geekhack and all the people, so don’t expect me to show up here again. I strongly recommend creating a new Hate On Gutz thread so that all of you can rant.
Last but not least, if you are ever planning a group buy, let me repeat the same advice I've always said: DON'T.
The whole topic never mentioned about anything about bank transfer...... so the money will never refund at all?
I have paid $470, for a useless thing worth $20, and never get a formal feedback, Even I have send out servel PMs to berserk.
Let me guess why, because there is "NO" avenue to file a dispute at all.
If I don't have feedback from YOU-Berserkfan before 23th May, I will authorize anyone who have paid to berserk $10 each for a dispute even they got the right thing.
I am not sure if paypal accept this, but at least it worth a try.
I can provide every single evidence and proof I have.
And being a honest and responsible man, I will collect all dispute info, and make it no more the $470, which I have paid before.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sun, 15 May 2016, 22:36:25
Hi gtx,
Here is a message I wrote to ****wyrm. I haven’t sent it because it is too long to fit into a paypal dispute reply form.
I find that I have been painted into a corner.
I sold everything cheap to clear my house as quickly as possible.
I have not much left because even things that were not paid for, were often just shipped anyway for free.
To refund everyone is impossible. I cannot afford it, and the shipping alone for everyone was $2.8k USD.
So I have to pay $2.8k shipping to lose all my property before everyone is satisfied?
All complainants to date have admitted to paypal that we DID NOT send you garbage or useless things. They were wrong, not rubbish or empty boxes. ****sis's scarface keycaps alone are worth $48-$300 depending on what was put into the box that was sent to you, which I haven't seen.
You paid $162 for keyboards. The keyboard which you have admitted to receiving, cost me over $250 to buy and customize. And you got scarface keycaps also.
Normally the correct way to file complaint is ‘significantly not as described’ but you insisted on telling paypal ‘item is damaged’ instead. Why? Let me guess: you don’t think you can win a complaint if you admitted to getting more than what you paid.
You wanted a full refund without so much as return shipment to my CONUS-located proxy shipper , and you even encouraged ****sis to file a clearly fake complaint.
****sis claims he had no intention to do anything dishonest with his fake complaint that has been dismissed already by paypal. Unfortunately he went on to say that one of the keycaps he paid for, which was supposed to be Row 2, wasn’t Row 2. He kept pressing me for a Row 2 scarface keycap. (I don’t have any scarface anymore, btw.)
Now how would ****sis know with such certainty that he didn’t get a correct Row 2 keycap? I can’t tell by looking at a photo. I could only tell by laying them out in a row and looking at the entire row with one eye closed. That’s how I sorted out my scarface originally.
Obviously ****sis now has scarface in his possession, and he obviously is able to compare. So this guy got his order ok, except for one keycap wrong. And you encouraged him to tell paypal that his credit card got stolen. Do you really work for Wells Fargo as you claim?
Everything is a screwup caused by me asking someone else to help with the packing at a time when I could not do it myself. If you wanted to wait for me to pack personally it would take MONTHS and I didn't want to make people wait. Hell, if I had done the regular geekhack thing like how Dorkvader or Nubbinator does it, I could make people wait 2 years for their stuff. But I couldn't have done this because I long ago promised wife to clear my house by May. I can’t have so many boxes in my house for months, so everything had to go out fast.
Now paypal account is negative $1285.56. I repeat, NEGATIVE. I will not be adding money to this account, end of story.
I reiterate my offer. Send domestically in the same packaging to my US proxy shipper, and they will bulk ship back to me at a far better rate than USPS. That will save you a lot in shipping costs, and I can even warehouse the stuff at their place for months FOC. That warehousing function is very valuable to me because I really cannot host stuff in my house anymore.
Thanks to lack of time off from work during office hours, I haven’t even collected the payments for about half the people who paid by moneygram. The moneygram office will probably think I’m mad, but I’ll just pickup the cash and redirect some to you. I have your name and country, which is all I need for making a moneygram payment.
Alternatively you can continue pursuing your currently destructive route:
1) You file paypal complaint
2) Paypal reviews my entire account which is their custom. Most complainants including you have multipart orders, and all orders are for keyboards, keycaps, and keyboard parts.
3) Paypal rep goes crazy trying to figure out who owes what who is missing what who has gotten what for who. Yeah, same experience as what we had trying to ship out stuff.
4) Paypal complaints are the tip of the iceberg. Some orders made by bank transfer had 20+ components. Another dozen had at least 10 components. More than half of all orders were made off paypal. If Paypal rep already goes crazy with just reconciling 10 complaints, I could make them extra crazy by sending them my 465MB of photos, records, shipping label printouts, etc. Maybe I’ll print out a few dozen PMs as well, showing how some people changed their orders repeatedly, backed out, came back, changed modes of payment, etc.
5) Even a buyer-biased company like paypal cannot but help figure that these customers are impossible to satisfy. After reading 3 or 4 complaints Paypal rep decides he has had enough.
6) Paypal rep decides this is no scam, so he hits paypal’s default button. Everyone must return ship to me, tracked, in order to qualify for refund.
7) So, just incur the shipping cost, ship everything internationally back to my home. You asked for it. This is also really destructive to me as well, because I will get into severe trouble when packages start showing up in the mail filled with keyboards and parts that were supposed to be forever banished from my house.
8) By this point I am never going to put money back into my paypal account. It’s a black hole. I would rather conserve my $2k USD for refunding the people who paid via bank transfer/ moneygram and therefore have no easy recourse if they got substantially lower value than what they paid.
9) So I get a black mark on my credit statement put there by paypal. That’s unpleasant but tolerable. I’m not going to take out another housing loan in the next 50 years, and I’m never going to buy a car.
10) And you? You might even get into trouble for buyer fraud. If you choose to send me some feces marked as ‘keyboard’, customs will intercept and I will have official proof to show Paypal that you attempted to keep the keyboard and send me feces.
This is my last geekhack post. My selling experience in March/April was super unpleasant. I am tired of the many unreasonable, sleazy and selfish people on geekhack. Offering people a reasonable compromise doesn’t work. Everyone is all about ME FIRST and F YOU.
The F You attitude I'm seeing so much, is like the ridiculous people who came to me during April, with zero posts and some newly created account, and just said in some curt PM: "You are giving away Model Ms/ Multimeters/ Model F-122s? Here's my address."
As expected, it is the paypal people who are most unreasonable because they know pp is on their side.
Years ago I said I would never do a GB because of the terrible people. I never expected to be doing the equivalent of one myself.
I’m locking this thread so people can see this is intended as a definitive reply.
I know the mods well enough that they can exercise mod powers to reopen this thread if they so wish. But I am 100% sick and tired of geekhack and all the people, so don’t expect me to show up here again. I strongly recommend creating a new Hate On Gutz thread so that all of you can rant.
Last but not least, if you are ever planning a group buy, let me repeat the same advice I've always said: DON'T.
The whole topic never mentioned about anything about bank transfer...... so the money will never refund at all?
I have paid $470, for a useless thing worth $20, and never get a formal feedback, Even I have send out servel PMs to berserk.
Let me guess why, because there is "NO" avenue to file a dispute at all.
If I don't have feedback from YOU-Berserkfan before 23th May, I will authorize anyone who have paid to berserk $10 each for a dispute even they got the right thing.
I am not sure if paypal accept this, but at least it worth a try.
I can provide every single evidence and proof I have.
And being a honest and responsible man, I will collect all dispute info, and make it no more the $470, which I have paid before.
I think it's too late. He wouldn't even answer my PM asking about the confirmation that he's taken my money and about tracking code. Hell, i even sent a thank you for sending the goods that i jokingly wanted for free. It looks like he did do as he said, disappearing from GH once and for all.
****kkkk my monthly allowance :'(
I guess we must deal with all of this by ourselfes.
I'm seeing that the probability that we will got our refund is nearly close to zero, so.. Let's just send each other's goods when it arrived.
Post by: kekman on Sun, 15 May 2016, 22:48:34
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9
****ing top kek mateQuoteAlso, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****
thats ****in mint
Post by: SixtyLife on Sun, 15 May 2016, 23:37:02
filing for a paypal refund now.
(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Post by: user 18 on Sun, 15 May 2016, 23:44:29
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9
****ing top kek mateQuoteAlso, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****
Mod's where is my warning? Too much inequality on this forum. Its cause I'm Mexican, huh?
Anyways, in an attempt to stay on topic, what are the chances of user getting their money back? Many paypal claims on one account is just going to freeze it up and refunds are going to be withheld. Is there a safety net in place on paypals part for a large amount of refunds?
You definitely got one, I just didn't send out PMs because I was in a rush -- I made a single post here instead. If it means that much to you, I'll go back through and reissue it.
E: Just for clarity's sake, I'll go back now and send out a PM to everyone. Sorry for any confusion.
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
QFT.
Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.
The mods removed posts they deemed "off-topic." Since this is up I'm going to assume it's somehow on topic. Which means I should be able to respond to tell this guy what a monumental ******* he's being without addressing the situation at hand, right? Cool.
The irony here is incredible. This is easily the most spiteful, inflammatory and absolutely ridiculous post I've read on either site and yet you're saying it while talking about how much better you are as a person. Bravo, sir. That is some next level hypocrisy.
Also, you know the guy who made that spreadsheet, asked for PM's of proof and has taken it upon himself to try to give everyone the clearest picture possible of where their stuff ended up so that this cluster**** might end a little better?
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal_gone_south/d34hp7k
"I am first and foremost a redditor," he says. One of those dirty "jagoffs" who would never "make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for."
I only removed posts made after my second comment above (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.msg2171404#msg2171404), because those were the ones that should have known better. While we generally let people get away with a bit more in off topic, it's expected that if we've stepped in and asked a topic of conversation to be stopped, that it be stopped. The posts removed were those that continued on after said stop was called. This line of discussion is not appropriate for this thread. If you have a problem with another user, take it to PMs or take it offsite.
When cleaning up threads, I have personally tried recently to leave as much as possible intact, in response to user complaints that we were removing too much. However, in order for us to be able to leave things up, you cannot continue dragging back up topics after being asked to stop.
For the final time, be respectful to other users. That goes for everyone.
Post by: Venatorious on Sun, 15 May 2016, 23:50:58
Seriously by filing claim you hurt the situation. You have 180 days to do so, give him a couple days. Please at least try to let berserk fix the issue.
Post by: demik on Mon, 16 May 2016, 00:43:37
the problem is OP just dropping his responsibilities because he's irresponsible.
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 00:48:50
Is that against the rules? But really why did I get a warning for being off topic on an off topic thread? that seems contradicting.
The off topic section is merely a section for topics that are not better suited for other areas of the site. While the moderation team tends to allow more leeway in the off topic section, each individual thread still has a topic of conversation. In this case, there had been multiple posts requesting that this thread stay on topic, seeing as this is a particularly serious thread, despite it being in the off topic section.
Also, you quite literally asked for a warning:
Mod's where is my warning? Too much inequality on this forum. Its cause I'm Mexican, huh?
Now, let's keep this thread for discussion of berserkfan's sale and the results thereof.
E: The above is a reply to a removed post. I have removed several more posts for being off topic.
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 00:55:27
Is that against the rules? But really why did I get a warning for being off topic on an off topic thread? that seems contradicting.
The off topic section is merely a section for topics that are not better suited for other areas of the site. While the moderation team tends to allow more leeway in the off topic section, each individual thread still has a topic of conversation. In this case, there had been multiple posts requesting that this thread stay on topic, seeing as this is a particularly serious thread, despite it being in the off topic section.
Also, you quite literally asked for a warning:Mod's where is my warning? Too much inequality on this forum. Its cause I'm Mexican, huh?
Now, let's keep this thread for discussion of berserkfan's sale and the results thereof.
You threatened to send out warnings and so I was wondering as to why you didn't stick to your word. I was calling you out for not actually sending one, but apparently you did. or is this a race thing?
Warnings were given in the backend of the site. I just neglected to tick the box that sends out a notification as I had several people to deal with and I was in a hurry. I have since corrected that error. If you want to discuss this topic any further please send me a PM or start a separate thread. I will be removing any further posts on this topic made in this thread.
E: As above, a reply to a removed post. Warnings have been given to those whose posts have been removed.
Post by: timerwin63 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:13:14
Guys don't file for a claim yet, berserk needs time to sort through the massive amount of PM's he got. I can give more reasoning soon into this.
Seriously by filing claim you hurt the situation. You have 180 days to do so, give him a couple days. Please at least try to let berserk fix the issue.
I don't see why we wouldn't file claims. I put in a dispute and explained my situation on PayPal. Guts sent me a response very quickly that was more or less "Go ahead and escalate this, I won't take it personally when PP issues you a refund." I can quote the actual exchange if people would like.
My point is that it seems unlikely that he'll be responding to PMs on the forums from now on, and opening a dispute is probably the only way to get a straightforward answer about anything.
That being said, I can't emphasize this enough:
If/when you open a dispute, treat him like a human being. Explain that you understand that people make mistakes, and explain your situation in a clear and concise way.
Don't talk down to him, or explain why he needs to fix it. He has acknowledged that he messed up, and I'm willing to bet that his responses thus far have been based on poor judgement and a lot of stress. He has to understand full well that what's happened is his fault, directly or otherwise.
He's still only human. Treat him like one. Don't back him into a corner and don't force him to get defensive. It'll make a night and day difference in the response(s) you get.
Post by: YJL on Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:58:58
Quote
Hello everyone,
Been a lurker and still quite new to the keyboard scene but decided to jump on the sale when I saw that berserkfan is a Singaporean for cheap shipping. I ordered the following from him:
C08. KBT Pure, unlubed 78g clears, blue theme aluminum casing and cable, SIP modded RGB LEDs w extra translucent keycaps, $100
Thick PBT colored grab bag $10 for 80
Tai Hao sets red and black $8 x2 = $16
Teensy 2.0 no pins $14
and received the following:
SA row 3 1u legends and blanks
SA row 2/4 legends and blanks
R4 and R5 black blanks
hyperfuse DCS purple on gray 1x teal on dark gray mods
small bag of SA blank keycaps
small bags of 3-5 keycaps of variety
2 Teensy 2.0
14 bags of white on black keycaps (some are labeled traditional cherry WOB)
I see that there is an excel spreadsheet that is being collated but proof of purchase etc is needed hence I'm posting to ask who should I be PMing for I havent really been following the thread. Unfortunately I paid via local money transfer so I don't think there's any avenue to file a dispute for me so hopefully I can still get a refund.
Anyone can give me a quick estimate of how much these are worth? Thank you
Post by: timerwin63 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 07:05:00
Hello, I quote my post from the other thread that has since been locked.
-snip-
Anyone can give me a quick estimate of how much these are worth? Thank you
Please don't come in here looking for valuation. Right now, we're trying to figure how who has what and how to get the right things to the right people. Deciding to resell what you got would be a poor idea this early, I think.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 16 May 2016, 07:21:44
It could be for his claim, as I know gutz is using the value in his defense.Hello, I quote my post from the other thread that has since been locked.
-snip-
Anyone can give me a quick estimate of how much these are worth? Thank you
Please don't come in here looking for valuation. Right now, we're trying to figure how who has what and how to get the right things to the right people. Deciding to resell what you got would be a poor idea this early, I think.
Guys don't file for a claim yet, berserk needs time to sort through the massive amount of PM's he got. I can give more reasoning soon into this.How so? Filing a claim further puts pressure on him, locks down his account so he can't parcel out money as he wants, makes him unable to receive or make payments from anyone, reinforces our aims as Paypal sees how massive the effort is. What is your counter to the points made above?
Seriously by filing claim you hurt the situation. You have 180 days to do so, give him a couple days. Please at least try to let berserk fix the issue.
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
Post by: YJL on Mon, 16 May 2016, 08:44:59
It could be for his claim, as I know gutz is using the value in his defenseHello, I quote my post from the other thread that has since been locked.
-snip-
Anyone can give me a quick estimate of how much these are worth? Thank you
Please don't come in here looking for valuation. Right now, we're trying to figure how who has what and how to get the right things to the right people. Deciding to resell what you got would be a poor idea this early, I think.
Ah I just wanted to get a sense of what I received. Not really intending to resell these really if the caps I got belongs to someone else I would gladly make arrangements. Hell I'm headed to the states sometime next month so it may be even better.
Can't really file a claim since I paid via bank transfer so there's nothing I can do really but hope he offers a reasonable refund.
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 16 May 2016, 09:10:58
Quote from: chuckdee
Guys don't file for a claim yet, berserk needs time to sort through the massive amount of PM's he got. I can give more reasoning soon into this.How so? Filing a claim further puts pressure on him, locks down his account so he can't parcel out money as he wants, makes him unable to receive or make payments from anyone, reinforces our aims as Paypal sees how massive the effort is. What is your counter to the points made above?
Seriously by filing claim you hurt the situation. You have 180 days to do so, give him a couple days. Please at least try to let berserk fix the issue.
Venatorious, this is literally the worst thing to say, and completely false. It is dead wrong and never say it again.
If he wanted to make things right, he HAS TO HAVE A CLAIM FROM BOTH PEOPLE. This creates a record saying "hey, X has Y's package" and "hey, Y has X's package." For a legitimate seller, this is critical because they can then respond to Paypal "hey, yeah, my bad. This person has this package, this person has that package. I want them to ship them back and then I'll get them the right one." That's how it's supposed to work.
Stop treating beserkfan as a legitimate seller. We already know he sold the Corsair keyboard at least twice, and gods only know how many other items. There's no way he had enough items to cover everything he sold. Even if his intentions were good at the outset? It's on him to properly track what's sold and not, simple as that. He failed to do so.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Mon, 16 May 2016, 09:21:05
TLDR: **** comcast.
Way to go, home internet blew up. Now that I'm back at work I'll be reading everything that transpired over the weekened again to get back to updating and reaching out to people.
Once again, the ask is:
If you have a claim, please provide proof of communication, in particular confirmation on items that you and beserkfan agree to have a sale on. If you have received tracking or not, please make that clear as well. If you have received a package, please take a picture/album of the items you have gotten along with a timestamp. The more concrete catalog we have, the better understanding of where the stuff is. The same pictures can be used as proof for claims later.
Also - from now on, no proof = I will no add it. There are more posts that just show up and even after reaching out in pm's I get no reply, so I'm not going to add those anymore.
Post by: pwade3 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 10:00:21
(Ripster aside, obviously)
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 16 May 2016, 10:17:27
A little late on this, but I'm pretty sure reddit is just mostly noobies afraid to post over here, not some forum equivalent of Australia where rulebreakers get sentenced to.
(Ripster aside, obviously)
There are also lots of experienced people that just don't want to browse a different format forum than reddit. The whole discussion is silly though.
Post by: Tyr on Mon, 16 May 2016, 14:05:36
Instead lets be positive: a lot of stuff obviously went out and so might be recoverable among ourselves and if cooler heads prevail maybe at least we can keep a dialog going to resolve things if not to everyone's satisfaction then at least to where people are in a better situation than they find themselves in now. Because I hate to break it to folks, but if Paypal's your last hope you're already ****ed.
Post by: Signature on Mon, 16 May 2016, 14:13:26
(even drawing in completely irrelevant vendettas, like v reddit)
You can say about Reddit what you want, threads like these are why I'm mostly there and not here.(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png)
Srsly tho, if you mess up a sale, it's your responsibility. Of course Bezerkfan is in a tough spot, but you have to be organized to make such a big sale, and he clearly wasn't. He brought all this upon himself and I can see how people are mad over not getting promised items.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 16 May 2016, 14:17:32
You can say about Reddit what you want, threads like these are why I'm mostly there and not here. I feel for Berzerkfan, I really do. You could tell he was on the edge before and this whole thing has turned into a huge ****-show. But I don't see how screaming and being abusive (even drawing in completely irrelevant vendettas, like v reddit) is going to solve any of this.
Instead lets be positive: a lot of stuff obviously went out and so might be recoverable among ourselves and if cooler heads prevail maybe at least we can keep a dialog going to resolve things if not to everyone's satisfaction then at least to where people are in a better situation than they find themselves in now. Because I hate to break it to folks, but if Paypal's your last hope you're already ****ed.
How so? They've been responsive to my queries, and are deciding... it's just taking a while. And if settled to my satisfaction (which I think it will be- the items are clearly not what I ordered), then that's a better outcome for me, as my item was pretty surely oversold.
It still remains: it was a business transaction, he received the monies in full. Anything else- including him spending money on shipping without notifying those that he was shipping to in order to make arrangements for the higher price- is irrelevant. I'm not unsympathetic, however his continued avoidance even to simple, reasonable, queries- i.e "What do you plan to do to rectify this situation?"- is eroding any sympathy I may have.
I have sold a lot of things in many different venues- usually after a hobby has run its course, or I have no space for what I've purchased. I've had some good experiences (boardgamegeek and rpggeek), and some bad ones (ebay). But I realize that it's my choice to sell, and I need to handle it as a business transaction, no matter how things might not be as I want them to be, and document everything, and don't make assumptions.
Anything else other than the facts of the transaction, and the need to make things right are irrelevant at this point to anyone attempting to honestly rectify the situation, IMO.
Post by: Tyr on Mon, 16 May 2016, 15:04:57
How so? They've been responsive to my queries, and are deciding... it's just taking a while. And if settled to my satisfaction (which I think it will be- the items are clearly not what I ordered), then that's a better outcome for me, as my item was pretty surely oversold.
Paypal are not exactly known for their support of the little guy i disputed transactions. Since we're talking about a sale between two persons, as opposed to businesses, there's a limit to what can be done. There's no right of return, what's actually in the boxes being shipped to and fro is being taken on faith (from Paypal's perspective), etc. What's more they already have their money and can only lose by arbitrating between individuals. I hope it works for you, but I wouldn't expect too much.
Srsly tho, if you mess up a sale, it's your responsibility. Of course Bezerkfan is in a tough spot, but you have to be organized to make such a big sale, and he clearly wasn't. He brought all this upon himself and I can see how people are mad over not getting promised items.
Getting mad is natural but doesn't actually fix things. Usually it does exactly the opposite in fact.
I'm in this thing for about $250 myself but better to focus on what might make things better than on what feels good but ultimately makes things worse.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 16 May 2016, 15:33:49
How so? They've been responsive to my queries, and are deciding... it's just taking a while. And if settled to my satisfaction (which I think it will be- the items are clearly not what I ordered), then that's a better outcome for me, as my item was pretty surely oversold.
Paypal are not exactly known for their support of the little guy i disputed transactions. Since we're talking about a sale between two persons, as opposed to businesses, there's a limit to what can be done. There's no right of return, what's actually in the boxes being shipped to and fro is being taken on faith (from Paypal's perspective), etc. What's more they already have their money and can only lose by arbitrating between individuals. I hope it works for you, but I wouldn't expect too much.
There's Purchase protection. And it applies to all of these orders- as long as you didn't send it friends and family. And he already has a strike against him as he charged a 10% premium for paypal, which is a big no-no in the seller rules, called out with it's own high level bullet point. I'm not sure of your experiences with Paypal, but mine have been more positive than you make it out to be. And Paypal is notoriously buyer-centric.
You might want to check the policy page on buyer protection to see just how wrong you are on current policies.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full
I go strictly by facts and experiences, not on suppositions. This is strictly business, not personal.
Relevant portions of their policy:
Quote
13.1 Types of Problems Covered. PayPal Purchase Protection (also known as PayPal Buyer Protection) helps you if you encounter either of these problems:
You did not receive the item you paid for with PayPal – “Item Not Received” (INR), or
You received an item you paid for with PayPal but it is “Significantly Not as Described” (SNAD) (as described below)
If your problem is a transaction that you did not authorize, please use this form to report the unauthorized transaction.
An item is “Significantly Not as Described” if it is materially different from what the Seller described in the item listing. Here are some examples:
- You received a completely different item. For example, you purchased a book and received a DVD or an empty box.
- The condition of the item was misrepresented. For example, the description when you bought the item said “new” and the item was used.
- The item was advertised as authentic but is not authentic.
- The item is missing major parts or features which were not disclosed in its description when you bought the item.
- You purchased three items from a Seller but only received two.
- The item was damaged during shipment.
An item is not Significantly Not as Described if it is materially similar to the Seller’s item listing description. Here are some examples:
- The defect in the item was correctly described by the Seller.
- The item was properly described but you didn't want it after you received it.
- The item was properly described but did not meet your expectations.
- The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition.
13.2 Eligibility Requirements.
To be eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection you must meet all of the following requirements:
- Have an Account in good standing.
- Pay for the eligible item from your Account.
- Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments – like a deposit followed by a final payment – are not eligible.
- Open a Dispute within 180 Days of the date you sent the payment, then follow the online dispute resolution process described below under Dispute Resolution. For Pay After Delivery transactions you must open your Dispute within 180 Days of the date of your transaction.
- You have not received a recovery related to such purchase from another source.
13.3 Ineligible Items. Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:Even if your payment is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection, you can file a Dispute and try to resolve the issue directly with the Seller; however, PayPal will generally not find in your favor if you escalate a Dispute to a Claim for an item which is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection.
- Real estate, including residential property
- Businesses
- Vehicles, including motor vehicles, motorcycles, caravans, aircraft and boats
- Significantly Not As Described issues for Custom-made items
- Items prohibited by the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
- For INR claims, items which you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including items bought through In-Store Checkout at the retail point of sale
- Industrial machinery used in manufacturing
- Items equivalent to cash, including prepaid or gift cards
- PayPal Direct Payments
- Virtual Terminal Payments
- Personal Payments
13.4 Coverage Amount. If you are eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection and PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs – with no cap on coverage.
PayPal will not reimburse you for the return shipping costs that you incur to return a Significantly Not As Described item to the Seller or other party specified by PayPal. If the Seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the Seller for an Item Not Received claim even if you did not receive the goods.
Unless you have references to the contrary, I'd suggest not spreading such things.
Post by: shrubkeys on Mon, 16 May 2016, 15:36:30
Paypal are not exactly known for their support of the little guy i disputed transactions. Since we're talking about a sale between two persons, as opposed to businesses, there's a limit to what can be done. There's no right of return, what's actually in the boxes being shipped to and fro is being taken on faith (from Paypal's perspective), etc. What's more they already have their money and can only lose by arbitrating between individuals. I hope it works for you, but I wouldn't expect too much.
Not sure why you say that. Frankly, I feel safer than even just using a credit card. From Paypal's policy: "If your transaction qualifies for Purchase Protection, we’ll reimburse you for the full purchase price plus any original shipping costs." Has nothing to do with the size (or the solvency) of the seller. If anything they're over-protective of buyers - sellers can get screwed pretty easily if buyers commit fraud.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Mon, 16 May 2016, 18:46:17
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.msg2171031#msg2171031
Let's address this latest bull****, and explain why I've now escalated to Paypal and I am absolutely not going to return the keyboard or keycaps to beserkfan under any circumstances.
One, I got in touch with Meiosis after he pinged me believing they were possibly his keycaps. I found his name labeled on the bag. I took photos so that he could see I had his keycaps. I then told him that I would pay out of my pocket to ship them to him, because it was CONUS and a very small package. In other words, me being the nice guy that I am, covering beserkfan's ass on this one. I said nothing more than that he should consider filing a claim.
Meiosis' Keycaps: https://imgur.com/a/xcjgX
Why did I offer to do this? Because beserkfan asked me to ship this to a proxy at my expense, at which point he stated he would not send Scarpia his keyboard or a refund. Because he felt, and I quote, "he got too much stuff." Well no **** he got a ton of stuff - he paid a lot of money for it and the shipping. Returning the keyboard to the seller with the knowledge that he is defrauding the purchaser? Especially when I know who the purchaser is? That makes me a party to the fraud. I could be charged criminally.
Here's Scarpia's keyboard, and the keycaps, and somebody's rubber feet: https://imgur.com/a/GV8Vm
What I wanted, simply, is to know where my keyboards that I paid for were and how we would handle Scarpia's issue in a LEGITIMATE, LEGAL fashion. Simple as that. I did not bring up Meiosis because frankly, I don't trust beserkfan would ship those keycaps out either. So again, being the nice guy that I am and as you all saw, I said I would ensure those keycaps got delivered to their proper, legal owner as soon as possible.
If I ship out all of these items, what am I left with? Absolutely nothing. I will not be keeping one single part I received, because none of them are mine. No matter how far you stretch the wording, these items belong to other people. Period. Not only that, but I do not want zinc keycaps or a 60% board. I hate 60%. Do you know what beserkfan wanted me to do in exchange for nothing?
Pay out of my pocket for shipping to an unverified proxy in the US. Where he would not ship the items to the purchasers, nor would he refund the purchasers. And if I didn't do that, he threatened to insist I ship it to Singapore - at a cost of more than $100. Out of pocket. So yes, he was demanding I pay $100 for the princely reward of absolutely ****ing nothing!!
That's not how it works. And yes, I see now that Paypal ****ed up and marked it as Damaged. That is not how I filed it. I filed it as "WRONG ITEM" but apparently the site didn't take. Since I had no visibility into that, I had no idea. I've asked Paypal to correct it as part of the escalation. Nothing in the package was damaged, everything was well packed, and everything is still safe.
As it is, even if I reverse the charges, this is going to cost me money. Period. I have keycaps that need to go to their legal owner. I have a keyboard that somehow has to go to ****ing Sweden. This is not how I want to spend my weekend. It is not even in the same universe as what I want to be doing. Dealing with the angsty ragequitting BS from someone who refuses to accept responsibility for errors he already admitted he made? I do that enough at work. I have not one single desire to do it here.
Oh, and no beserkfan didn't send what he said to me. He sent nothing at all. My last PM from him was May 13th; my last Paypal communication was me telling him that expecting me to eat $100 in shipping and be a party to fraud was not an acceptable solution. All I wanted was for him to do something so very, stupidly, ridiculously reasonable: find out who has my keyboards and arrange correct shipping to me (which will cost less than I paid STILL), and arrange a way for me to get Scarpia and Meiosis their stuff.
Which speaks untold volumes about how he is handling this and how he intends to handle it. So now tomorrow, I'm going to have to bloody call Paypal, make sure they fixed the filing, and explain to them that the seller is being completely uncooperative, making absurd demands in violation of Paypal TOS, knows and has already admitted he screwed up, and has publicly stated that not only did he screw up he has no intention of issuing refunds or honoring his financial obligations.
There is literally no word for what he is doing other than criminal fraud. That's what it is, plain and simple. Don't even think of calling it anything else.
And I am now going to drink too much whiskey and go to bed. There are no words for how pissed off and utterly disappointed I am with Gutz. None at all.
Bit late to the party, appologise folks. I'm working on updating. But this is my sentiments exactly. I myself am $400 shot in the dark. I have gotten items which do not belong to me, and I will make sure they will end up to the person who bought them. In the case of double sales, I will be more than happy to entertain a mediation to determine what happens, if anything. I am already spending more than than I would like to try to keep track of ****, to chase down people who want to help and frankly, I know I will probably get nothing out of it because I paid with moneygram instead of paypal. At the end of the day, I'm still shot $400, more because of extended shipping, time, effort, and lots of effort.
So beserkfan, I am going to make sure that for $400, I'm going after you in spite, and enjoy it because I didn't spend $400 to get nothing.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Mon, 16 May 2016, 18:48:07
I'd like to ask for this thread to be locked for roughly two more days because le ledditors and MD apologists(thinking about three people in particular, you know who you are) are talking a lot about this right now and will pour oil into fire to make community-ran GB's look worse. Just look at some of the comments to this thread outside of GH to see that already being done. The topic needs calm and civil discussion, not drama escalators, and most people that aren't actually affected will forget by then.1. This isn't a groupbuy (I know a lot of people are misunderstanding that though)
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.
I agree. This is a thread for this issue, and you're not going to please everyone all the time trying to minimize it.
What I'd personally like is for this thread to be retitled something more appropriate, so those affected can come here to find out what happened, and communicate with each other. There are those that are affected that don't even have any idea of what's going on, and the thread title doesn't give any indication. Berserkfan/Gutz has said he's abandoning thread, and to a large extent, the problem he created. Handle our problems through official channels, and then communicate about what's been done/what can be done, and come together as a community is what I'd like and advocate for.Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it.
This part is part of what is making the two so divisive, and I personally don't buy into it. Air_tree was on this board mostly, and mind_funeral on reddit. But mind_funeral went out of his way to help air_tree. Doesn't that say that enthusiasts are just people- and there are good ones and bad ones?
I am mainly on reddit. I joined GH precisely because I saw beserkfan's sale. So take that for what you will.
Post by: phosphoric on Mon, 16 May 2016, 18:48:54
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 16 May 2016, 18:56:57
got a set of thin pbt iso caps and some random sa caps. i thought maybe i was lucky and got excluded from the massive ****up, but nope lol.
Can you post an image of what you got for posterity's sake?
Post by: Skysophrenic on Mon, 16 May 2016, 19:03:06
updated doc a bit, will continue after dinner. Working on received next - once again, as packages come in please please please please speak up to say what you got.
It was also said by beserkfan that a ton of stuff has been thrown away - it is unlikely that we will ever be able to account for everything, but for every person that speaks up and posts, with proof, about what they have ordered (Pm's screen shots), payment (black out details), and received items (list + timestamps, and any other details such as XYZ's order or whatever..) then the better chances we have of being able to account for everything.
Like some have said - Do not send things to each other yet, make sure you file claims with paypal (if you've paid with it), and make sure you only send after given the go-ahead. There are plenty of problems that we need to solve and the only way to do so is to be civil and clearly communicate often, communicate clearly.
Finally, let's not continue to bash beserkfan or each other. Instead just work things out because clearly he's not going to. So get what you can back from him, file complaints, file everything. His whining only hurts his case, and by being the better person holding a better posture, you'll find that the scales will tip towards you in claims. For others, lets see what we can work with on Moneygram or other methods. BUT KEEP OUR SOLUTIONS LEGAL, LEGITIMATE, AND CIVIL. I urge, I can't force, but I urge everyone be forthcoming and honest. I will be pm'ing more and following up with some others that might have been involved, and some of the folks that I am missing details to.
I am also going to be looking into possibly straight up fraud (selling items he didn't have) as there seems to be a pretty big coincidence on "themed" keyboards - which so happened to have been unlisted.
I also find it funny how beserkfan has not responded to everyone, only a select few. Not to mention after being called out repetitively, pm'ed, and publicly shown that there are indeed people tracking his shipments, I'm surprised he hasn't tried to reach out to me. So be it.
Post by: gnarlsagan on Mon, 16 May 2016, 19:44:02
also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck. 😢
Post by: shrubkeys on Mon, 16 May 2016, 19:56:48
also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck. 😢
IIRC in this case, there actually *was* more than one WoB M13 keyset. Of course, that doesn't mean those weren't sold multiple times, as well. :p
Post by: SixtyLife on Mon, 16 May 2016, 20:01:12
not sure if he was selling more than 1. did you get the wrong item too? he had the set listed at $50, it was prob the last day of his sale when I contacted him. I did the pp goods option because I wanted the tracking that was available with airmail. here's screenshot of message:also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck. 😢
(http://i.imgur.com/97Zzt6t.png)
Post by: gnarlsagan on Mon, 16 May 2016, 20:19:19
not sure if he was selling more than 1. did you get the wrong item too? he had the set listed at $50, it was prob the last day of his sale when I contacted him. I did the pp goods option because I wanted the tracking that was available with airmail. here's screenshot of message:also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck. 😢Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/97Zzt6t.png)
Damn you got a better deal than me! Paid on the 29th. Haven't gotten anything yet and he never confirmed with me that they actually shipped. I pm'ed him two days ago on DT but no response. I've been extremely understanding and polite to him.
(http://i.imgur.com/OmPqVZS.jpg)
Post by: SixtyLife on Mon, 16 May 2016, 20:33:54
hope you can get it resolved dude.. hopefully he sent you the right caps and it'll come any day nownot sure if he was selling more than 1. did you get the wrong item too? he had the set listed at $50, it was prob the last day of his sale when I contacted him. I did the pp goods option because I wanted the tracking that was available with airmail. here's screenshot of message:also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck. 😢Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/97Zzt6t.png)
Damn you got a better deal than me! Paid on the 29th. Haven't gotten anything yet and he never confirmed with me that they actually shipped. I pm'ed him two days ago on DT but no response. I've been extremely understanding and polite to him.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/OmPqVZS.jpg)
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 16 May 2016, 20:48:38
Literally the only difference between basic, seller, and business accounts are the tools you can use. I don't "own" a business but I use PayPal Business and it's almost exactly the same as regular PayPal.
Post by: mind_funeral on Mon, 16 May 2016, 20:54:11
"PayPal will want me to upgrade to a seller account and that's more paperwork for me."
Literally the only difference between basic, seller, and business accounts are the tools you can use. I don't "own" a business but I use PayPal Business and it's almost exactly the same as regular PayPal.
Looks like a scam from the beginning...
Post by: gnarlsagan on Mon, 16 May 2016, 21:32:14
"PayPal will want me to upgrade to a seller account and that's more paperwork for me."
Literally the only difference between basic, seller, and business accounts are the tools you can use. I don't "own" a business but I use PayPal Business and it's almost exactly the same as regular PayPal.
Looks like a scam from the beginning...
This was definitely NOT a scam. A scam would be sending out nothing at all. This was negligence/pressure from wife/massive stress/take your pick.
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 16 May 2016, 23:36:59
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing
updated doc a bit, will continue after dinner. Working on received next - once again, as packages come in please please please please speak up to say what you got.
Finally, let's not continue to bash beserkfan or each other. Instead just work things out because clearly he's not going to. So get what you can back from him, file complaints, file everything. His whining only hurts his case, and by being the better person holding a better posture, you'll find that the scales will tip towards you in claims. For others, lets see what we can work with on Moneygram or other methods. BUT KEEP OUR SOLUTIONS LEGAL, LEGITIMATE, AND CIVIL. I urge, I can't force, but I urge everyone be forthcoming and honest. I will be pm'ing more and following up with some others that might have been involved, and some of the folks that I am missing details to.
I am also going to be looking into possibly straight up fraud (selling items he didn't have) as there seems to be a pretty big coincidence on "themed" keyboards - which so happened to have been unlisted.
Sky, can you please give me full edit on the spreadsheet so I can tidy up the formatting a bit? Also you nuked my comments. :(
Post by: mind_funeral on Mon, 16 May 2016, 23:37:06
"PayPal will want me to upgrade to a seller account and that's more paperwork for me."
Literally the only difference between basic, seller, and business accounts are the tools you can use. I don't "own" a business but I use PayPal Business and it's almost exactly the same as regular PayPal.
Looks like a scam from the beginning...
This was definitely NOT a scam. A scam would be sending out nothing at all. This was negligence/pressure from wife/massive stress/take your pick.
Well I have yet to receive anything and I was one that was talked into money order because: *insert berserk paypal excuse here*
Post by: Skysophrenic on Tue, 17 May 2016, 00:06:42
Side note: **** comcast. I mean, they're bad. But they at least answer disputes and get us a product - and disregarding all the bull**** about monopolies and whatever on telecom companies - comcast actually still does deliver. Beserkfan, you haven't. So congratulations! You've stooped below these guys. But hey, What do I know? Maybe life is all that tough. I mean, I'm just a single guy who's finished his masters this past year. I am a corporate sellout, working for a company on the 75th floor of a skyscraper in downtown Chicago. On the weekends I play video games, tinker with gadgets (such as mechs!) and sleep in late. I am bored. Beserkfan: You've kind of incited the curiosity of what is essentially a bored guy. You sparked my interest. Captured my attention - you've got it now. So I'm going to do what I can to help these people, and spite you along the way. Because I can.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Tue, 17 May 2016, 08:48:13
Post by: UnFocused on Tue, 17 May 2016, 12:43:43
Beserkfan: You've kind of incited the curiosity of what is essentially a bored guy. You sparked my interest. Captured my attention - you've got it now. So I'm going to do what I can to help these people, and spite you along the way. Because I can.
I'm not in any way involved in this mess, but that's just beautiful! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Post by: Skysophrenic on Tue, 17 May 2016, 13:53:51
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 17 May 2016, 17:21:50
I have been known to be persistent.Just wanted to say that this was my fault, and to lay the blame at my feet. Sorry to all affected- this is definitely a learning experience that I wish I didn't have to have
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 17 May 2016, 18:36:28
Not only did they go to the wrong people, the actual contents are also consistently wrong. Promised items either incorrect or simply omitted or - hopefully - in some other shipment. At this point there is absolutely no reason to believe anyone will get what they paid for. I've also confirmed at this point that at least two keyboards were sold twice and the MJ1 with clears was sold three times! I haven't even started going through keycap sets.
That makes it even more important to make sure it gets into the spreadsheet. You can PM Skysophrenic (actual gdoc owner) or myself here. I'm going to be reaching out to a couple folks via PMs to get some additional information in (probably futile) hopes some of the items actually had multiples available.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 17 May 2016, 19:52:53
Just wanted to say that this was my fault, and to lay the blame at my feet.
You're the one who convinced Berserk's wife to move to a new house? Why'd ya do it?
Post by: phosphoric on Tue, 17 May 2016, 20:52:02
he thought he could get a good deal, but that obviously didn't happen
Just wanted to say that this was my fault, and to lay the blame at my feet.
You're the one who convinced Berserk's wife to move to a new house? Why'd ya do it?
Post by: demik on Tue, 17 May 2016, 20:54:41
Post by: Floody on Tue, 17 May 2016, 21:00:23
did somebody srsly get a pack of cigs?He posted them on the freebies thread
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 17 May 2016, 21:57:21
Not exactly what I meant- but that's certainly what G implied, so why not go there?he thought he could get a good deal, but that obviously didn't happen
Just wanted to say that this was my fault, and to lay the blame at my feet.
You're the one who convinced Berserk's wife to move to a new house? Why'd ya do it?
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
Post by: mobbo on Tue, 17 May 2016, 22:57:57
Weren't they already opened?
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 18 May 2016, 08:19:18
- KBC Poker X - sold to 2
- KBT Race 75% - sold to 2 - confirmed sold Apr 25
- Corsair K95 "Old Glory" - sold to 2 - confirmed sold Apr 25
- Filco MJ1 fullsize, stock clears, PBT keycaps - sold to 3
- IBM Model M13 WOB keycap set - sold to 2 confirmed, possibly 3
These are items where there is 100% certainty that there was not enough quantity to cover the orders paid for, and there never was. It is of course, on the seller to ensure they have either sufficient quantity or accurately record that an item is no longer available. This clearly was not done for one reason or another. At this point it is a certainty that people have paid for items which not only did not ship, but could not have possibly been delivered. Some of these sales may have occurred after it was posted elsewhere that the item had sold.
Additional research has also identified the following potential problem sales.
- Any Filco SA profile keycaps sold or paid for after April 11
- IBM Model F122, ANSI mod, painted backplate after April 11
- Cherry G80-1950 NIB after April 11
- G80-11903 HRMUS after April 11
- Any Tai Hao keycaps after April 25
- All Filco keycaps sold after April 25
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 18 May 2016, 08:27:52
Are Filco key caps especially desirable?
Post by: user 18 on Wed, 18 May 2016, 08:39:26
Not that I expect my box for another month, but all that MX minutiae is over my head.
Are Filco key caps especially desirable?
I believe it's mostly just Filco sphericals that most are interested in, as they are a SA profile set, and that's popular right now. I suppose there might also be special interest in the front-print caps, as there aren't very many sources for those either (at least not that I'm aware of).
Post by: mind_funeral on Wed, 18 May 2016, 09:36:18
Not that I expect my box for another month, but all that MX minutiae is over my head.
Are Filco key caps especially desirable?
I believe it's mostly just Filco sphericals that most are interested in, as they are a SA profile set, and that's popular right now. I suppose there might also be special interest in the front-print caps, as there aren't very many sources for those either (at least not that I'm aware of).
Even the Filco Sphericals aren't that hard to find. They can be bought new for around 45 GBP.
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 18 May 2016, 09:58:25
Not that I expect my box for another month, but all that MX minutiae is over my head.
Are Filco key caps especially desirable?
I believe it's mostly just Filco sphericals that most are interested in, as they are a SA profile set, and that's popular right now. I suppose there might also be special interest in the front-print caps, as there aren't very many sources for those either (at least not that I'm aware of).
Anything to do with keycaps tends to be outside my area of expertise, save buckling spring 1pc/2pc. We managed to find a copy of the actual doc that was posted listing all the keycaps available though, thank gods - well, really, thank chuckdee! He found it. But it is a huge mess and the numbers are just flat out nuts.
The Filcos, he had 1 set of White on Brown SA Profile TKL, 3 sets of TKL stock, and 1 set of ANSI fullsize. Because the photos were deleted to destroy evidence, I don't know if these were front print or not.
Some of the other stuff though is just insane. DSA PBT blanks, he claims he had "41 set" of red blanks, "42 set" of white blanks, "a few numpad sets" and "a lot of misc or novelty". The list is still nowhere near complete either - for example, it's missing the DCS blank sets. I was told those had already been sold when I asked about them. Those do not appear anywhere on the PDF, but were definitely in the original sale post.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 18 May 2016, 10:24:01
No problem telling the difference between types of plastic and legend techniques, but all those distinctions with "profiles" can get pretty arcane. And that this pairing of colors is common and cheap while that pairing of colors is highly desirable and valuable is not what I have ever paid attention to, beyond occasionally thinking "oh, those look good" such as cream cheese and chives or coffee/chocolate.
Post by: Tyr on Wed, 18 May 2016, 10:34:51
Are Filco key caps especially desirable?
The stock (non SA) filco keycaps are pretty crappy. I ordered a set because I also ordered a Filco TKL keyboard kit and since he was getting rid of the original keycaps for like $5 I might as well get them to put on there when I'm not using it with a nice set.
I don't think anyone will be crying because their filco set didn't come.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 18 May 2016, 11:26:34
Keyset document: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2ixerc8dp09vr2/Keycaps%20sublist.pdf?dl=1
Model M document: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbsihs7dbqt9njl/Model%20M%20Model%20F%20Vintage%20Alps%20Keyboards%20sublist.pdf?dl=1
I converted the word document to PDFs to (a) make them more accessible, and (b) preserve the original text in a harder to edit format.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Wed, 18 May 2016, 11:53:56
Well, i don't really care about them anymore, as for now all that i want to come to my door is my sp bumblebee, cherry wob grabbags and those dsa keycap grabbags.
Please be nice.. the problem is that my country's custom are so slow, it might be another month before i can confirm what i get. (Berserkfan never gave the tracking number to me, and i paid using WU as well.. shame on me)
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 18 May 2016, 12:48:37
For future confirmations, please see if you can match the item you purchased with it's ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION and the ID number on the spreadsheet. All of the item numbers are the same as beserk used except for keycaps, which did not have item ID numbers. Because of the extremely poor tracking, there are missing items that were in the thread but NOT in the documents we have.
That spreadsheet, once again:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 18 May 2016, 13:54:34
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 18 May 2016, 14:48:57
Mine are already there, but possibly update them to say Massdrop Granite in each description to make things clearer.
Yup. For Keycaps there are TWO item IDs. When we know there are multiple different sets or pieces (e.g. Granite, Scarface, etc) there will be a "KC" ID for the description. Then there will be a "UKC" number which identifies the set piece.
Granites are "KC3" - then under that you would have a UKC number as well. So as an example, someone who ordered a Granite Common Kit and numpad would have:
1x UKC1 - $PAID - Granite numpad
1x UKC2 - $PAID - Granite Common Kit
Also note that because prices were reduced or changed significantly over the course of even individual transactions (so much for that screaming about lowballing) there are huge discrepancies. There are keyboards listed at over $200 that went for less than half that, while others received less drastic cuts. If at all possible, please let us know what you actually paid so that we can mark these correctly. It is vitally important to do so, because this is the best counter to claims that the items are worth utterly absurd values. (If an item didn't sell at $300, but did at $100, then it's only worth $100.)
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 18 May 2016, 14:55:06
Post by: shrubkeys on Wed, 18 May 2016, 15:06:42
All keycaps and IBM keyboards from chuckdee's PDFs have been imported into the spreadsheet to ease tracking. (And helpfully illustrates that it is not all that hard to track if an item is sold or not. Get a message, put the name in.) Still looking for the other keyboard list.
Uploaded (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3JsGDCTHFd3NWhRdVFPcVF1SUk/view?usp=sharing) the other keyboard list.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 18 May 2016, 15:23:20
Quote
However, you can still file a report online through the Internet Crime Complaint Center, or IC3.
The IC3 was established as a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C) to serve as a means to receive Internet related criminal complaints.
The IC3 accepts online Internet crime complaints from either the actual victim or from a third party to the complainant. They will process your complaint if they receive accurate and complete information from you. When filing a complaint, provide the following information:
Your name
Your mailing address
Your telephone number
The name, address, telephone number, and Web address, if available, of the individual or organization you believe defrauded you.
Specific details on how, why, and when you believe you were defrauded.
Any other relevant information you believe is necessary to support your complaint.
You can file a complaint with the IC3 at www.ic3.gov.
The shipping complaints, are, though annoying, apparently just erroneous and negligent, rather than fraud.
But based on the fact that no orders are complete and/or correct from the information that we have, and the double selling, this is looking more and more like fraud. And with his response, it makes it a bit harder to swallow. But, even with that, I still hesitate to file this kind of complaint.
What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?
Post by: shrubkeys on Wed, 18 May 2016, 18:36:39
What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?
Be my guest, but it seems awfully...silly. This is waaaaay below the threshhold of what the FBI is interested in. Not to mention the fact that items were shipped from Singapore, where the FBI has no jurisdiction.
Post by: Floody on Wed, 18 May 2016, 18:38:31
Post by: romevi on Wed, 18 May 2016, 18:40:41
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 18 May 2016, 18:40:53
What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?
Be my guest, but it seems awfully...silly. This is waaaaay below the threshhold of what the FBI is interested in. Not to mention the fact that items were shipped from Singapore, where the FBI has no jurisdiction.
If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO. And why do you think it's below what they are interested in? Do you see a limit somewhere? And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.
Post by: romevi on Wed, 18 May 2016, 18:48:43
What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?
Be my guest, but it seems awfully...silly. This is waaaaay below the threshhold of what the FBI is interested in. Not to mention the fact that items were shipped from Singapore, where the FBI has no jurisdiction.
If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO. And why do you think it's below what they are interested in? Do you see a limit somewhere? And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.
Because PayPal doesn't want to deal with it.
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 18 May 2016, 19:05:24
The shipping complaints, are, though annoying, apparently just erroneous and negligent, rather than fraud.
But based on the fact that no orders are complete and/or correct from the information that we have, and the double selling, this is looking more and more like fraud. And with his response, it makes it a bit harder to swallow. But, even with that, I still hesitate to file this kind of complaint.
What do others (affected and non-affected) think about this recourse?
At this point, it is absolutely wrong to rule out deliberate fraud. In fact, we just keep finding more and more red flags. A quick analysis of the pricing from the posts in mid-April and the actual sale prices show that many supposedly high value, high dollar items? Were sold for pennies on the dollar. Several examples:
- KBT Pure priced at $200, sold $100 (50%)
- Ducky Shine 3 priced at $150, sold $70 (46%)
- IBM M13 TrackPoint II black MaxiSwitch, sold at $100 - if in good working condition, easily $250 on eBay
- IBM Model F XT teensied priced at $90, sold for $65 TWICE - 72% of list from buyers, 144% of ask paid for it
- IBM "Bigfoot", asked $60, given for free to two people
Many sales were well, well below the initial or even current asking price. There are plenty of legitimate explanations for this and it's perfectly reasonable to lower the price of something if it's not selling or to entice a seller to buy more for completely aboveboard reasons. ("Buy two M122's, get a third one free!" Or "I'll give you X for 30% off because then you get the next flat-rate shipping tier.") There are also plenty of legitimate reasons to throw a bunch of free crap in a box - like if you're just going to throw it out otherwise and it's flat-rate shipping.
However, there's no guarantee that it isn't like the stuff that "just fell off the back of a truck" or the iPad box with a brick scam. Knock the price down till the seller can't refuse, knowing full well they're just buying an empty box. We also have an inexplicable situation where certain boxes went literal slow boat from China with no tracking, while others got express shipping - seemingly independent of weight. To say nothing of the "local" sales where despite regular claims of problems with local buyers, only two locals have been found so far and both were shipped their packages.
And I will reiterate that we STILL only have a total of 2 keyboards reported as received. This is out of 21 confirmed keyboard sales so far. That's right - at least 21 complete keyboards were sold. If we go by how many times keyboards were paid for, it's at least 30 - so far.
It is too early to call criminal act versus epic incompetence. But we are nowhere near being able to rule out deliberate fraud either.
Also, the prices and items in the various documents uploaded by helpful folks are way the hell off. I'm not talking "a little bit" or "knocked price down $10." I mean there are paid for and received items that never appeared in any of the docs I've reviewed yet, there are price differences of hundreds of dollars, and quantities specified don't line up within the documents themselves. This could be because items were sold and removed, it could be because of typos, there's no way of knowing for certain.
Post by: kekman on Wed, 18 May 2016, 19:19:33
I'm going to check whether moneygram shows if your money has been received once my internet gets fixed tonight.
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 18 May 2016, 19:35:03
so at what point do we file a claim for fraud? If we never receive anything and we don't have a tracking number, we can never prove that the items were never sent out and are just stuck in some shipping facility halfway across the world.
I'm going to check whether moneygram shows if your money has been received once my internet gets fixed tonight.
The best way for right now is to follow these steps:
- Get your order on the spreadsheet - start by checking if there's an ITEM ID associated under the category tabs
- Go to the Edits, Comments here tab and put "Ordered", your username, what type of item, how many, and what you paid for each excluding shipping. One item per row please!
- Screenshot any PMs and payment confirmation if available, remove personal information, and PM it Skysophrenic or myself so we can move your order to confirmed.
- Review the spreadsheet to see if your items appear on the Ordered or Received sections
Neither Skysophrenic nor I are lawyers, yadda, not legal advice, etcetera. However, if you have no tracking number and have not received the package in a reasonable amount of time or you paid via a method with a limited window in which to make a claim or which is difficult to file a claim with, you should consider filing a claim simply stating that you have received neither the item you paid for nor any tracking number. Remember that if you DO get your items, you can usually cancel or close a dispute as resolved to your satisfaction - and if the order is wrong, you can update it to say that as well. Do NOT cancel disputes until after you have opened the package and confirmed whether or not the order is correct no matter what!
Post by: shrubkeys on Wed, 18 May 2016, 20:19:30
If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO. And why do you think it's below what they are interested in? Do you see a limit somewhere? And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.
You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?
Post by: Darkshado on Wed, 18 May 2016, 20:26:12
Many, myself included, are still waiting for their shipments and the advertised timeframes for that still have weeks before they're over.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 18 May 2016, 20:52:44
If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO. And why do you think it's below what they are interested in? Do you see a limit somewhere? And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.
You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?
Do we really need to get condescending and sarcastic in this thread? There's no harm in reporting this to anyone. Sure, it might be in vain, but in that case perhaps a polite reminder or heads up of that fact is more appropriate.
Post by: shrubkeys on Wed, 18 May 2016, 21:18:40
If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO. And why do you think it's below what they are interested in? Do you see a limit somewhere? And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.
You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?
Do we really need to get condescending and sarcastic in this thread? There's no harm in reporting this to anyone. Sure, it might be in vain, but in that case perhaps a polite reminder or heads up of that fact is more appropriate.
Okay - in all fairness, I thought I did give him a polite heads-up. The first time he suggested the IC3.
But you are also correct that it was inappropriate of me to be patronizing just because he didn't immediately come around to my way of thinking. Apologies, all - and to chuckdee in particular. And if you do manage to get berserkfan a bad Yelp review, you have my mad respect.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 18 May 2016, 21:30:07
If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO. And why do you think it's below what they are interested in? Do you see a limit somewhere? And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.
You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?
Do we really need to get condescending and sarcastic in this thread? There's no harm in reporting this to anyone. Sure, it might be in vain, but in that case perhaps a polite reminder or heads up of that fact is more appropriate.
Okay - in all fairness, I thought I did give him a polite heads-up. The first time he suggested the IC3.
But you are also correct that it was rude of me to be patronizing just because he didn't immediately come around to my way of thinking. Apologies, all - and to chuckdee in particular. And if you do manage to get berserkfan a bad Yelp review, you have my mad respect.
I was just asking, because the PP rep included a reference to it when they talked to me. And referred to where it was in every correspondence. It's not because they don't want to deal with it- they are. But he was saying with the extent of it, we might want to consider it. And he also said with the extent of it, it was very possible that Paypal would also, because a third party can file.
I was also asking because I thought all of us were in it and dealing with it as a community. I guess I was naive in that respect.
But I also realized, with someone who was a lot nicer and more helpful than many of the people in the thread, that it was probably out of negative emotions that I've been trying to keep in check. It feels bad to be taken advantage of, especially in this way. It's even worse when the person posts what he did at the beginning of this thread, and responds to your inquiries in the way that he did (at least with me).
And what's even worse is an insincere apology. Adding that on top of the rudeness and the condescension. But I guess you knew that, and that's why you did it.
No more discussion needed. I would be sorry that I posted- except it did have good effects in other areas, so I guess it evens out. Thanks all.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 18 May 2016, 21:30:18
If the FBI was only interested in domestic, then they wouldn't be doing internet at all, IMO. And why do you think it's below what they are interested in? Do you see a limit somewhere? And just as an FYI, this was suggested by Paypal as they were looking into my claim, so not sure why they'd suggest it if it wasn't appropriate.
You've convinced me. In fact, we've not gone far enough. I've just filed fraud reports with MI6, Interpol, the Better Business Bureau, the ATF, the CIA, CSI, IBM and IFTTT. Who wants to write him a bad review on Yelp?
Do we really need to get condescending and sarcastic in this thread? There's no harm in reporting this to anyone. Sure, it might be in vain, but in that case perhaps a polite reminder or heads up of that fact is more appropriate.
Okay - in all fairness, I thought I did give him a polite heads-up. The first time he suggested the IC3.
But you are also correct that it was inappropriate of me to be patronizing just because he didn't immediately come around to my way of thinking. Apologies, all - and to chuckdee in particular. And if you do manage to get berserkfan a bad Yelp review, you have my mad respect.
True, true. I would just hate to see a thread like this which is already fairly non-positive devolve into victims tossing mud at each other, is all. :thumb: As for that Yelp review, we can only hope. :)
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 18 May 2016, 23:01:12
TL;DR is this:
FILE YOUR DISPUTE OR CLAIM IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT WAIT FOR PACKAGES TO SHOW UP. THERE IS A 30 DAY WINDOW FOR MANY TRANSACTIONS.
IF YOU ARE ASKED TO FILE A POLICE REPORT BY YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY OR BANK, DO SO IMMEDIATELY.
I am comfortable stating authoritatively that there is absolutely no way that beserkfan can cover refunds or items even if his statements about setting aside $2000 for this were true.
$2,000 of refunds would not even cover 5 people. More than 40% of it would go to cover just two large orders. Now consider that for a moment - there are two people who spent more than $900. At the prices we have seen in the documents as opposed to what was paid, only one of them would get a full refund. That's not a math error either - according to the price sheet, it would have been nearly $1,000 before shipping. Consider that for a moment. Now do you think a neophyte is going to spend that kind of money on very specific items? Absolutely not. So yeah. There is not going to be any victim blaming tolerated from me, and there is no sympathy left either.
Nobody just "forgets" an order allegedly worth $1,000 before discounts, even in this mess. And they sure don't forget that they got payment for the same item from two people on pretty much the same day.
The victim shaming and the pointing and laughing is probably the biggest problem with getting people to report that they got screwed. That's absolutely unacceptable, period. And that's going to stop right the hell now. Skysophrenic and I have been working our asses off on this spreadsheet - which frankly, is why I've been cranky. That and all the "SUCKS TO BE YOU, I KNEW BETTER" gloating from people who quite bluntly, didn't know jack and simply didn't have the cash to buy what they wanted. You children got your giggles - now the adults are talking.
At this point, it is certain that more than $2,500USD was sent to beserkfan through various means. We still don't know how much people actually sent because they haven't posted or PM'd anyone to say "hey, I ordered X and paid $Y." There is no reason whatsoever not to do that unless you're hoping to get lucky with package roulette and cheat someone out of their stuff. In which case, you should expect a similar reception to what beserkfan is getting now.
Nobody is telling anyone what they do or don't have to do with what they receive - that is between the person who paid for it and Paypal or their bank, and the person who paid for it and the person who received it. To the extent I am able, I am happy to try and connect people if they can't find each other. Not going to mediate or get involved in more than 200 transactions because frankly, I do not have the time.
Regardless, to make the strongest possible case for ALL customers, we need to know exactly what was ordered, paid for, and roughly how much. That is the information we need from you, that we are assembling for everyone to use. Nobody wants or needs your personal information. Really! We don't! Seriously, I work with HIPAA enough thanks!
To date, a single person has received a single item they ordered, and that item was a set of free keycaps. We may end up needing to start whole new threads just to try and track what people are receiving. There are more than 200 keycap sets, and very nearly 200 keyboards. We have absolutely no idea if the items that were sold actually did ship in entirety, only part of them, or if what has been received is just red herrings. If you think you are getting what you ordered, I am sorry to say that so far the evidence indicates otherwise. And again, if you do, you can always cancel a dispute as resolved stating that you did ultimately receive the items. (And I would honestly hope that anyone who does would do so.)
But it is very likely only way you are going to get your money refunded if you do not get your items is if you file very soon. Again, I personally encourage people to include links or URLs for the evidence presented in this thread and in the spreadsheet in any dispute. These provide the clearest factual arguments that the seller was aware, stated they would not issue refunds on an arbitrary basis, does not intend to cooperate with victims, and that items were sold to multiple people repeatedly.
Hyperbole and trolling are not helpful, not needed, and not wanted. What we need is factual data - all the factual data we can get our hands on. If you talked with beserkfan and changed your mind on a buy, we want to hear from you. If you paid beserkfan money and are still waiting on shipping, we want to hear from you. If some mysterious package full of keboards from Singapore showed up at your door, we want to hear from you. At this point, we are focused on assisting people in recovering their money first and foremost - which means finding out how much was sold, how much it was sold for, how many times it was sold, and if the item ever showed up anywhere, and which items were never actually shipped despite being sold.
Connecting all these lost packages with their rightful owners is enough of an undertaking that it qualifies as an entirely separate project at this point.
Post by: 3K on Thu, 19 May 2016, 04:44:58
Regardless, to make the strongest possible case for ALL customers, we need to know exactly what was ordered, paid for, and roughly how much. That is the information we need from you, that we are assembling for everyone to use.
This is a list of my order:
- Model F 50 keys, teensied. (internal teensy, blank caps) - 70$
- Full set of Green on White Buckling Spring keycaps - 30$
- 6u DSA Space Bar - 2$
- Teensy 2.0, no pins - 14$
- Green dyed buckling spring keycaps
- solder wire
- sip sockets
- a white wrist rest
I were helped by Wodan as proxy, but I do not have a full list of his order ATM. Also my info is that the package did not arrive yet.
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 19 May 2016, 05:55:58
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 19 May 2016, 06:45:56
I did think it was strange that he asked for a bank transfer for most of the money. LUL.Well, after his problems with PayPal, I didn't think that was automatically bad, it's just that I wasn't going to do that no matter what. But it wasn't automatically a red flag for that reason I think.
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 19 May 2016, 07:16:10
I did think it was strange that he asked for a bank transfer for most of the money. LUL.Well, after his problems with PayPal, I didn't think that was automatically bad, it's just that I wasn't going to do that no matter what. But it wasn't automatically a red flag for that reason I think.
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
I still think it is. There are plenty of other more secure ways to send money to people that gives you some sort of protection instead of throwing your money into a big hole hoping to get something back.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 19 May 2016, 07:23:31
I did think it was strange that he asked for a bank transfer for most of the money. LUL.Well, after his problems with PayPal, I didn't think that was automatically bad, it's just that I wasn't going to do that no matter what. But it wasn't automatically a red flag for that reason I think.
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
I still think it is. There are plenty of other more secure ways to send money to people that gives you some sort of protection instead of throwing your money into a big hole hoping to get something back.
What are those, if you don't mind me asking? I really don't like Paypal, but it's the easiest and most secure option I've been able to find. I was using google wallet for a while, but then they decided to change it, and few places take it in and of itself.
Post by: dgneo on Thu, 19 May 2016, 07:25:37
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 19 May 2016, 10:32:18
That's not how it works. And yes, I see now that Paypal ****ed up and marked it as Damaged. That is not how I filed it. I filed it as "WRONG ITEM" but apparently the site didn't take. Since I had no visibility into that, I had no idea. I've asked Paypal to correct it as part of the escalation. Nothing in the package was damaged, everything was well packed, and everything is still safe.
As it is, even if I reverse the charges, this is going to cost me money. Period. I have keycaps that need to go to their legal owner. I have a keyboard that somehow has to go to ****ing Sweden. This is not how I want to spend my weekend. It is not even in the same universe as what I want to be doing. Dealing with the angsty ragequitting BS from someone who refuses to accept responsibility for errors he already admitted he made? I do that enough at work. I have not one single desire to do it here.
Just wanted to let you, and anyone else that had problems uploading to their complaint know that I received a message from Paypal about it.
Quote
Type paypal.com/il/uploaddoc in your url. You should be able to send documentation that way. Be sure to reference your case number and name.
Post by: dgneo on Thu, 19 May 2016, 10:55:17
I just checked, and find that I still have some things that were paid for by other people and never sent to them.
These are:
1) keyboard that I owe Mike52787. Already agreed that I would paint the board for him over the next few weeks before sending
2) Box of white on black Ducky Side Print keycaps. I was damned sure I sold these, and I still have them???!!!
3) Brand new NIB sealed light green set of gateron thick PBT blank keycaps. Also damned sure I sold these already.
4) 100 brand new white PBT blank keycaps. I mistakenly double sold my 80 colored PBT grab bag, so I promised someone he would get these 100 brand new whites instead to do his own dyejobs. But who did I promise?
5) I have a box of newish Ducky thick PBT keycaps. This was never listed for sale/ is a personal set. If you got screwed by an insufficient shipment please let me know and this can be sent to you.
6) I have a set of new gray switches and new stems/springs I’m pretty sure were sold very early on. I can’t remember to whom I sold these.
7) I still have a set of cherry PCB mounted stabilizers. Not sure if anyone is still owed one set. I’m convinced I sold all my Cherry stabs.
8) I have a brand new orange silicon skin for Ducky Shine 3 Fullsize keyboards. Originally not listed for sale; meant to give to rootwyrm as a surprise freebie, but was left out of the Ducky Shines shipped to him via untracked sea mail. Since rootwyrm has filed paypal complaint, he will not get this.
9) Am holding on to an empty G80-1950 box with the accessories (keycaps and cable) inside! Two people bought G80-1950s from me and they were supposed to be shipped in the boxes, but now I don’t have any G80-1950 and I have one empty box instead. I think the keyboard itself must have been stuffed in someone’s 10kg box or thrown away by accident.
10) I still have a bunch of Model M and F cables. I thought I over promised them to anyone who wanted, and I still have these things!
11) I remember a legit buyer wanted some of my Cherry keyboard trackball/ trackpad assemblies. I still have these!
12) I don’t remember if I ever sold my Filco Fullsize kit. Do I owe anyone this kit?
13) If I can still find things that have been sold/ promised to be given and were not shipped out I’ll post them.
14) No more Big Items.
If you are owed any of these things, please contact me by PM. Just give your address; shipping is on me. Not going through my notes anymore which are a mess and not reliable. I’ll read PMs in a week.
Shipping:
I will ship by early June. Shipping by sea mail, untracked. May take 2-3 months. Don’t pester me to rush ship things or else mistakes may recur. The April-May period was horrible and the consequences are still reverberating.
I will take photos of the postal receipts, packaging and postmarks to prove that they were handed off at the post office.
Cross posting this, as he closed the other thread and erased the OP.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Thu, 19 May 2016, 11:02:54
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82224.0
I just checked, and find that I still have some things that were paid for by other people and never sent to them.
These are:
1) keyboard that I owe Mike52787. Already agreed that I would paint the board for him over the next few weeks before sending
2) Box of white on black Ducky Side Print keycaps. I was damned sure I sold these, and I still have them???!!!
3) Brand new NIB sealed light green set of gateron thick PBT blank keycaps. Also damned sure I sold these already.
4) 100 brand new white PBT blank keycaps. I mistakenly double sold my 80 colored PBT grab bag, so I promised someone he would get these 100 brand new whites instead to do his own dyejobs. But who did I promise?
5) I have a box of newish Ducky thick PBT keycaps. This was never listed for sale/ is a personal set. If you got screwed by an insufficient shipment please let me know and this can be sent to you.
6) I have a set of new gray switches and new stems/springs I’m pretty sure were sold very early on. I can’t remember to whom I sold these.
7) I still have a set of cherry PCB mounted stabilizers. Not sure if anyone is still owed one set. I’m convinced I sold all my Cherry stabs.
8) I have a brand new orange silicon skin for Ducky Shine 3 Fullsize keyboards. Originally not listed for sale; meant to give to rootwyrm as a surprise freebie, but was left out of the Ducky Shines shipped to him via untracked sea mail. Since rootwyrm has filed paypal complaint, he will not get this.
9) Am holding on to an empty G80-1950 box with the accessories (keycaps and cable) inside! Two people bought G80-1950s from me and they were supposed to be shipped in the boxes, but now I don’t have any G80-1950 and I have one empty box instead. I think the keyboard itself must have been stuffed in someone’s 10kg box or thrown away by accident.
10) I still have a bunch of Model M and F cables. I thought I over promised them to anyone who wanted, and I still have these things!
11) I remember a legit buyer wanted some of my Cherry keyboard trackball/ trackpad assemblies. I still have these!
12) I don’t remember if I ever sold my Filco Fullsize kit. Do I owe anyone this kit?
13) If I can still find things that have been sold/ promised to be given and were not shipped out I’ll post them.
14) No more Big Items.
If you are owed any of these things, please contact me by PM. Just give your address; shipping is on me. Not going through my notes anymore which are a mess and not reliable. I’ll read PMs in a week.
Shipping:
I will ship by early June. Shipping by sea mail, untracked. May take 2-3 months. Don’t pester me to rush ship things or else mistakes may recur. The April-May period was horrible and the consequences are still reverberating.
I will take photos of the postal receipts, packaging and postmarks to prove that they were handed off at the post office.
Cross posting this, as he closed the other thread and erased the OP.
loled at that, this guy is really poor with problem solving.
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 19 May 2016, 11:36:17
I just checked, and find that I still have some things that were paid for by other people and never sent to them.
These are:
1) keyboard that I owe Mike52787. Already agreed that I would paint the board for him over the next few weeks before sending
2) Box of white on black Ducky Side Print keycaps. I was damned sure I sold these, and I still have them???!!!
3) Brand new NIB sealed light green set of gateron thick PBT blank keycaps. Also damned sure I sold these already.
4) 100 brand new white PBT blank keycaps. I mistakenly double sold my 80 colored PBT grab bag, so I promised someone he would get these 100 brand new whites instead to do his own dyejobs. But who did I promise?
5) I have a box of newish Ducky thick PBT keycaps. This was never listed for sale/ is a personal set. If you got screwed by an insufficient shipment please let me know and this can be sent to you.
6) I have a set of new gray switches and new stems/springs I’m pretty sure were sold very early on. I can’t remember to whom I sold these.
7) I still have a set of cherry PCB mounted stabilizers. Not sure if anyone is still owed one set. I’m convinced I sold all my Cherry stabs.
8) I have a brand new orange silicon skin for Ducky Shine 3 Fullsize keyboards. Originally not listed for sale; meant to give to rootwyrm as a surprise freebie, but was left out of the Ducky Shines shipped to him via untracked sea mail. Since rootwyrm has filed paypal complaint, he will not get this.
9) Am holding on to an empty G80-1950 box with the accessories (keycaps and cable) inside! Two people bought G80-1950s from me and they were supposed to be shipped in the boxes, but now I don’t have any G80-1950 and I have one empty box instead. I think the keyboard itself must have been stuffed in someone’s 10kg box or thrown away by accident.
10) I still have a bunch of Model M and F cables. I thought I over promised them to anyone who wanted, and I still have these things!
11) I remember a legit buyer wanted some of my Cherry keyboard trackball/ trackpad assemblies. I still have these!
12) I don’t remember if I ever sold my Filco Fullsize kit. Do I owe anyone this kit?
13) If I can still find things that have been sold/ promised to be given and were not shipped out I’ll post them.
14) No more Big Items.
If you are owed any of these things, please contact me by PM. Just give your address; shipping is on me. Not going through my notes anymore which are a mess and not reliable. I’ll read PMs in a week.
Shipping:
I will ship by early June. Shipping by sea mail, untracked. May take 2-3 months. Don’t pester me to rush ship things or else mistakes may recur. The April-May period was horrible and the consequences are still reverberating.
I will take photos of the postal receipts, packaging and postmarks to prove that they were handed off at the post office.
Cross posting this, as he closed the other thread and erased the OP.
Thanks for that. When I get back to a PC I will merge the threads. This whole thing is enough of a cluster**** as it is already.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 19 May 2016, 11:42:51
I will merge the threads.
It was exceptionally confusing from the beginning with multiple threads on multiple forums - all simultaneous and different.
Post by: qwack on Thu, 19 May 2016, 12:55:42
Or maybe he's truthful, but the method does not seem to differ significantly than that which led to the current clusterduck, so I can't see how it should work this time. I'd like to say "it's nice to see him try to correct what went wrong" but it doesn't even seem to be the right way to do it (more shady transactions aren't the way to go).
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 19 May 2016, 13:29:05
I think it's obvious, but just in case, I'd advise people to not fall for this. So he miraculously finds stuff again, offers to send items to people who were wronged without saying who is eligible and who shall get what (so everything would be negociated in MP, behind closed doors), and finally warns that it would take 2 to 3 months for the goods to reach people: he's merely buying time hoping that people will stop making paypal claims or retract them, adding to the overall confusion, hoping that after those 3 months it will be too late for people to dispute the initial transaction.
Or maybe he's truthful, but the method does not seem to differ significantly than that which led to the current clusterduck, so I can't see how it should work this time. I'd like to say "it's nice to see him try to correct what went wrong" but it doesn't even seem to be the right way to do it (more shady transactions aren't the way to go).
Nobody should even consider trusting this, because it's plainly an attempt to buy time and put disputes outside the window, ensuring no claims can be made. For wire transfers and the like, the period is usually 30 days or less, if there are any provisions at all. Meaning if you wait this alleged "3-5 weeks" for an untracked package, you definitely will not be able to make even an attempt to recover even your shipping costs if you get the wrong item.
For Paypal, depending, the period is 30 or 180 calendar days. That 3-5 weeks does not include customs processing time or local shipper time. Which means that if you wait the maximum time, that's over 10 weeks - which will unquestionably put you outside of the dispute window. Paypal will not even let you open a dispute. It's a done deal.
Again: opening a dispute does not mean you are getting your money back or that you are screwing the seller. When you open a dispute, you are creating an official record that says nothing more than "hey, there is an issue here, I'm concerned, please help resolve these concerns." It goes to the SELLER first to give them a reasonable opportunity to work with you directly to resolve it. Paypal is aware, they may place a hold on withdrawals for the seller, but they do not get involved. If you receive your items, you can always let the seller know everything is fine, and close it as resolved! And I would sincerely hope everyone who receives the correct items does so!
It doesn't ding the seller, and they can then take out the funds immediately. It shows the seller is able to work with the purchaser to resolve issues in a constructive fashion. Paypal understands that mistakes happen, and considers resolving them a net positive showing the seller can be trusted to take care of problems.
But if you do NOT open a dispute, there is NO record of the issue or potential issue. Once the deadline passes, you have no recourse. The money is gone and you're stuck with what you got. It is vitally important to maintain good records of everything. Photograph the package, photograph the contents, screenshot IM exchanges, the works.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 19 May 2016, 13:31:51
Post by: timerwin63 on Thu, 19 May 2016, 13:51:46
One thing to add to rootwyrm's excellent bit above- once you do open a dispute, you do have a potentially shorter timeframe to escalate to a claim. So keep that deadline in mind also- they're pretty up front about it.
You have 20 days after a dispute is opened to file a claim. My claim has been open for 5 days now with no response (other than him telling me to escalate the dispute). Unfortunately, I think I (and anyone else that opens a claim) have to wait until the claim "times out" so to speak and have PayPal rule in my favor, because Gutz can't actually authorize refunds with his account like it is.
Edit: This info is for PayPal. I don't know about any other payment methods.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:25:33
One thing to add to rootwyrm's excellent bit above- once you do open a dispute, you do have a potentially shorter timeframe to escalate to a claim. So keep that deadline in mind also- they're pretty up front about it.
You have 20 days after a dispute is opened to file a claim. My claim has been open for 5 days now with no response (other than him telling me to escalate the dispute). Unfortunately, I think I (and anyone else that opens a claim) have to wait until the claim "times out" so to speak and have PayPal rule in my favor, because Gutz can't actually authorize refunds with his account like it is.
Edit: This info is for PayPal. I don't know about any other payment methods.
He can reply and say "It's my fault. I just can't do anything about it." Maybe that's what he's doing, but he's also not responding and saying that to us, which hurts perception.
Post by: timerwin63 on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:36:11
He can reply and say "It's my fault. I just can't do anything about it." Maybe that's what he's doing, but he's also not responding and saying that to us, which hurts perception.
Yeah, it's still waiting for his reply. I don't think that I can add information to the claim after it gets filed, which sucks, but the good news is that it seems PayPal takes inaction as an admission of guilt. (I think?)
(http://i.imgur.com/yi473Un.png)
As far as his responses to us (as a group), why would he apologize, it's obviously everyone's fault but his! You can tell from how thorough his responses were explaining why none of the problems that occured were a result of any decision making that he was a part of. /s
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:49:22
For reference:
1. Log into paypal.
2. Click the bell image at the upper right near Log out
(http://i.imgur.com/KEtFwvg.png)
3. In the notifications flyout, click Go to Message Center
(http://i.imgur.com/uMWz1xt.png)
4. On the page that appears, click create new message. It will be right beneath the bell:
(http://i.imgur.com/ONoL4vR.png)
5. Choose the following in the new message: Disputes -> Paypal Dispute/Claim Update Status, and be sure to include the Transaction ID of the payment, and the Dispute ID. (Include those in any correspondence with them)
(http://i.imgur.com/VTbugY1.png)
6. If you need to upload any items, it is broken. So you have to go to https://www.paypal.com/il/uploaddoc to send documentation, and again, be sure to reference your case number, transaction id, and include your name on each item in the description field; it's a small space, but I found that <claim#>-<transactionid>-<name>-Evidence just fits. I just chose 'Other' for the type for them all.
(http://i.imgur.com/HYwOEaK.png)
I hope that helps!
Post by: Skysophrenic on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:54:32
I will be returning home today, and I'll take a look at what we have. But as far as I can tell, we have a StitShorm of stuff happening and beserkfan/Gutz has basically just dug himself deeper in a hole trying "rectify" the fustercluck that he's created.
At the end of the day he's still failed to recognise the people trying to coordinate and fix his mess, instead he's given more passive aggressiveness and, frankly, more rudeness
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 19 May 2016, 14:57:07
For the photos, upload ORIGINALS with the EXIF data intact if possible. Also be sure to include photographs of ANY identifying labels. So if your username is on the shipping label, make sure to get a photo of that. If there's a slip identifying who was supposed to get the item, include a photo of that. You get the idea. This helps make it clear that they are definitively not the items you ordered.
Post by: ponnx on Thu, 19 May 2016, 21:31:16
I just checked, and find that I still have some things that were paid for by other people and never sent to them.
These are:
1) keyboard that I owe Mike52787. Already agreed that I would paint the board for him over the next few weeks before sending
2) Box of white on black Ducky Side Print keycaps. I was damned sure I sold these, and I still have them???!!!
3) Brand new NIB sealed light green set of gateron thick PBT blank keycaps. Also damned sure I sold these already.
4) 100 brand new white PBT blank keycaps. I mistakenly double sold my 80 colored PBT grab bag, so I promised someone he would get these 100 brand new whites instead to do his own dyejobs. But who did I promise?
5) I have a box of newish Ducky thick PBT keycaps. This was never listed for sale/ is a personal set. If you got screwed by an insufficient shipment please let me know and this can be sent to you.
6) I have a set of new gray switches and new stems/springs I’m pretty sure were sold very early on. I can’t remember to whom I sold these.
7) I still have a set of cherry PCB mounted stabilizers. Not sure if anyone is still owed one set. I’m convinced I sold all my Cherry stabs.
8) I have a brand new orange silicon skin for Ducky Shine 3 Fullsize keyboards. Originally not listed for sale; meant to give to rootwyrm as a surprise freebie, but was left out of the Ducky Shines shipped to him via untracked sea mail. Since rootwyrm has filed paypal complaint, he will not get this.
9) Am holding on to an empty G80-1950 box with the accessories (keycaps and cable) inside! Two people bought G80-1950s from me and they were supposed to be shipped in the boxes, but now I don’t have any G80-1950 and I have one empty box instead. I think the keyboard itself must have been stuffed in someone’s 10kg box or thrown away by accident.
10) I still have a bunch of Model M and F cables. I thought I over promised them to anyone who wanted, and I still have these things!
11) I remember a legit buyer wanted some of my Cherry keyboard trackball/ trackpad assemblies. I still have these!
12) I don’t remember if I ever sold my Filco Fullsize kit. Do I owe anyone this kit?
13) If I can still find things that have been sold/ promised to be given and were not shipped out I’ll post them.
14) No more Big Items.
If you are owed any of these things, please contact me by PM. Just give your address; shipping is on me. Not going through my notes anymore which are a mess and not reliable. I’ll read PMs in a week.
Shipping:
I will ship by early June. Shipping by sea mail, untracked. May take 2-3 months. Don’t pester me to rush ship things or else mistakes may recur. The April-May period was horrible and the consequences are still reverberating.
I will take photos of the postal receipts, packaging and postmarks to prove that they were handed off at the post office.
Cross posting this, as he closed the other thread and erased the OP.
2) Box of white on black Ducky Side Print keycaps. I was damned sure I sold these, and I still have them???!!!
Well. At least one set of the keycaps is not on the way to me now.
I feel like I need to file a dispute but I made a payment via Western Union.
Not sure what should be my next move on this.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 19 May 2016, 21:49:19
Well. At least one set of the keycaps is not on the way to me now.
I feel like I need to file a dispute but I made a payment via Western Union.
Not sure what should be my next move on this.
Has he picked it up?
https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/fraudawareness/fraud-question-and-answer.html
Doesn't look good, unless you get lucky and he didn't pick it up.
Post by: gnarlsagan on Thu, 19 May 2016, 21:58:19
also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Finally got a reply from berserkfan saying that he had more than two M13 WOB buckling spring sets to sell, and that he specifically remembered packing mine in a Zeal LLC box and shipped it through sea mail untracked. This is actually the shipping option we agreed upon. Hopefully it comes through.
Post by: ponnx on Thu, 19 May 2016, 22:05:17
Well. At least one set of the keycaps is not on the way to me now.
I feel like I need to file a dispute but I made a payment via Western Union.
Not sure what should be my next move on this.
Has he picked it up?
https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/fraudawareness/fraud-question-and-answer.html
Doesn't look good, unless you get lucky and he didn't pick it up.
He already picked up the money 11 days ago. :(
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 19 May 2016, 22:51:17
also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Finally got a reply from berserkfan saying that he had more than two M13 WOB buckling spring sets to sell, and that he specifically remembered packing mine in a Zeal LLC box and shipped it through sea mail untracked. This is actually the shipping option we agreed upon. Hopefully it comes through.
I remain skeptical. Especially with the increasingly questionable nature of things every time Gutz provides an update. At no point did he indicate a second set of M13 WOB in any of the sheets I've reviewed - but I don't see any other sales either. So I suppose it's possible. It'd certainly be a first for this fiasco.
If that fails, ping me - I usually save the GHB clusters, so I might have some WOBs. (Yeah, I'm still M13 obsessed.)
Post by: gnarlsagan on Thu, 19 May 2016, 23:30:19
also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Finally got a reply from berserkfan saying that he had more than two M13 WOB buckling spring sets to sell, and that he specifically remembered packing mine in a Zeal LLC box and shipped it through sea mail untracked. This is actually the shipping option we agreed upon. Hopefully it comes through.
I remain skeptical. Especially with the increasingly questionable nature of things every time Gutz provides an update. At no point did he indicate a second set of M13 WOB in any of the sheets I've reviewed - but I don't see any other sales either. So I suppose it's possible. It'd certainly be a first for this fiasco.
If that fails, ping me - I usually save the GHB clusters, so I might have some WOBs. (Yeah, I'm still M13 obsessed.)
Hey thanks man. Really appreciate what you guys are doing.
Post by: ponnx on Fri, 20 May 2016, 00:41:04
also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Finally got a reply from berserkfan saying that he had more than two M13 WOB buckling spring sets to sell, and that he specifically remembered packing mine in a Zeal LLC box and shipped it through sea mail untracked. This is actually the shipping option we agreed upon. Hopefully it comes through.
When did you received a reply? I did send him several PM about my order But to response
Post by: gnarlsagan on Fri, 20 May 2016, 00:44:42
also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.
filing for a paypal refund now.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/vWxPEbV.jpg)
Finally got a reply from berserkfan saying that he had more than two M13 WOB buckling spring sets to sell, and that he specifically remembered packing mine in a Zeal LLC box and shipped it through sea mail untracked. This is actually the shipping option we agreed upon. Hopefully it comes through.
When did you received a reply? I did send him several PM about my order But to response
About 13 hours ago.
Post by: poog on Fri, 20 May 2016, 01:22:43
Post by: Darkshado on Fri, 20 May 2016, 01:37:16
That's the spreadsheet compiled mostly by Skysophrenic and rootwyrm, it has the same numbers listed.
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 20 May 2016, 05:50:28
Does anyone have those word documents describing what each item is or know where it's located? When I pmd him I just used the names like J6 and M7 and unfortunately can't remember which thread has which documents.There are links earlier in the thread. If you can't find it, let me know, and I'll link it when I get to my computer
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
Post by: phosphoric on Fri, 20 May 2016, 10:54:48
Well. At least one set of the keycaps is not on the way to me now.
I feel like I need to file a dispute but I made a payment via Western Union.
Not sure what should be my next move on this.
Has he picked it up?
https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/fraudawareness/fraud-question-and-answer.html
Doesn't look good, unless you get lucky and he didn't pick it up.
He already picked up the money 11 days ago. :(
more than "it doesn't look good - it seems to be impossible for us to get our money back.
Quote
If the receiver has already picked up the funds, this money is gone and we won’t be able to refund your money.
Read more at https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/fraudawareness/fraud-question-and-answer.html#mVyQ5jCKaUEWvZdY.99
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 20 May 2016, 11:40:50
Master sublists of everything that Gutz put together - this is not an exhaustive list, however it is also the best documentation that we have that can confirm what, according to Gutz, was on hand at the time.
It's a large file, and it isn't ideal for viewing due to formatting but it's a list. Rootwyrm has been going through them and making comparisons.
Finally, I am aware of a few people that have acted as proxies - I encourage them to come out and show what was bought by your proxies. Please do not let this become multi-level, it is difficult enough to keep track.
Post by: Tyr on Fri, 20 May 2016, 11:44:36
Master sublists of everything that Gutz put together - this is not an exhaustive list, however it is also the best documentation that we have that can confirm what, according to Gutz, was on hand at the time.
I think what Berzerkfan really needed was a couple of guys like you coming in and running the sale, "Hoarders"-style. ;D
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 20 May 2016, 11:47:40
Well. At least one set of the keycaps is not on the way to me now.
I feel like I need to file a dispute but I made a payment via Western Union.
Not sure what should be my next move on this.
Has he picked it up?
https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/fraudawareness/fraud-question-and-answer.html
Doesn't look good, unless you get lucky and he didn't pick it up.
He already picked up the money 11 days ago. :(
more than "it doesn't look good - it seems to be impossible for us to get our money back.QuoteIf the receiver has already picked up the funds, this money is gone and we won’t be able to refund your money.
Read more at https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/fraudawareness/fraud-question-and-answer.html#mVyQ5jCKaUEWvZdY.99
Doesn't look good, i.e. unless he didn't pick it up. I didn't know the status of that question when I posted the quoted bit.
Post by: phosphoric on Fri, 20 May 2016, 12:18:35
im sadWell. At least one set of the keycaps is not on the way to me now.
I feel like I need to file a dispute but I made a payment via Western Union.
Not sure what should be my next move on this.
Has he picked it up?
https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/fraudawareness/fraud-question-and-answer.html
Doesn't look good, unless you get lucky and he didn't pick it up.
He already picked up the money 11 days ago. :(
more than "it doesn't look good - it seems to be impossible for us to get our money back.QuoteIf the receiver has already picked up the funds, this money is gone and we won’t be able to refund your money.
Read more at https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/fraudawareness/fraud-question-and-answer.html#mVyQ5jCKaUEWvZdY.99
Doesn't look good, i.e. unless he didn't pick it up. I didn't know the status of that question when I posted the quoted bit.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 20 May 2016, 12:31:15
I've done some updates and additions - please check over if you think I missed something. A few things:
1.
a) Please please please if you have ordered something from beserkfan/Gutz, come out and talk to us. Rootwrym and I are trying to find out where stuff is, and to help you get your money/items back once everything is resolved. It'll be a long process but we'll try our best to fix problems which aren't ours. Please give us a pm, containing:
i) The items you ordered (providing proof of pm's/screenshots of confirmation of your order), and
ii) Items you've received (also proof).
iii) Any other information such as payment details (black out personal details), shipping, tracking numbers, confirmations, even usernames of things that you got meant for other people. Everything helps.
b)If you know someone affected, please have them reach out! If you had a shipping proxy in the states, please contact him and have him reach out to me or rootwyrm! Proxies hold a prime place in the information network of being a hub in communication.
2. I've compiled a master list - the information IS already in the spreadsheet due to Rootwyrm's work (thanks for picking up my slack since I had to travel for work for a few days) Links will be at the bottom.
3. If you haven't already, open up a claim on paypal if you paid with that. IF YOU FIND THAT YOU GET THE RIGHT ITEMS, I sincerely urge you to close it and say that everything is okay. For Moneygram or western Union, open up a fraud complaint. Money transfers in Singapore, you guys are lucky. Walk into your bank and open up a fraud claim with a banker - money transfers are a legit way of conducting business in Singapore - you have a very good chance to not only get your money back, but have the bank summon Gutz for a testimony. Also the banks are pretty ruthless at getting their money back.
4. Please talk to us! If you have more information, something we missed, more proof, pm me or Rootwyrm, I Promise we will get to it and take your opinions/thoughts into account.
5. Everything relies on the integrity and honesty as well as the cooperation as a community. While the atmosphere is negative, we can remain civil and level-headed. There will be loss, there will be those that are unhappy. Others that come in and gloat and act condescending will also/has happened. Ignore those and focus on the goal of helping everybody else.
6. I am starting to pm people on the spreadsheet that have given me values but no proof - I want to fill in the gaps as best as I could. I will also direct those to this sheet. If I do not get replies within a certain time frame, I will delete them (tentatively) from the sheet until proof is provided.
7. Finally, I encourage people to follow the thread to get updates on a rolling basis. Thanks all!
Links:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zhUKx9Wx4kQElgKDjVE_lHHnNhhWAhSIMXsq9mJMAqo/edit?usp=sharing Master Documentation (use side bar to navigate headers)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing Master spreadsheet of tracking
~~Skysophrenic
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 20 May 2016, 12:43:18
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zhUKx9Wx4kQElgKDjVE_lHHnNhhWAhSIMXsq9mJMAqo/edit?usp=sharing
Master sublists of everything that Gutz put together - this is not an exhaustive list, however it is also the best documentation that we have that can confirm what, according to Gutz, was on hand at the time.
It's a large file, and it isn't ideal for viewing due to formatting but it's a list. Rootwyrm has been going through them and making comparisons.
Finally, I am aware of a few people that have acted as proxies - I encourage them to come out and show what was bought by your proxies. Please do not let this become multi-level, it is difficult enough to keep track.
I'm going to second this with some serious freaking emphasis. Proxies, PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU ORDERED OR WERE PROXYING. We do NOT necessarily need prices - though they are very helpful. What we DEFINITELY need is the list of items at the minimum. We don't need to know who you were proxying for, though it is helpful for assembling contact information.
I'm going to hopefully this weekend start putting together a setup where folks can enter their contact information so that buyers and recipients can connect with each other. (Also I'm seriously, SERIOUSLY considering building a new site as a result of this whole fiasco.)
I'm also going to see what I can do about putting together some way that folks can share photos of what they received in a central location so we can identify items accurately. Seriously, a lot of these items are well outside my area of expertise. I can tell Ducky boards apart easy, I can ID pretty much any Ducky keycap, and I can pick out an M13 from an M5-2 by sound at a hundred paces. Anything else? I'm bloody lost. Which means items logged based on what we think they are, may be wrong. We want to be as accurate as possible when identifying items.
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 21 May 2016, 10:39:20
Quote
You’re eligible for a refund of $135.00 USD once you return the items listed below before May 31, 2016. Before you do so, please read our instructions carefully.
I'll send it Monday and be on the way to being done with this nightmare. I might even go out once the rain is stopped- just not sure how late the post office is open. This unfortunately means that Eiji (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=39178) is going to have to deal with G directly. But he hasn't responded to PM's, and indeed hasn't been on since the 11th. It's unfortunate, but that's what paypal requires.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 21 May 2016, 10:45:55
Well, got good news today:QuoteYou’re eligible for a refund of $135.00 USD once you return the items listed below before May 31, 2016. Before you do so, please read our instructions carefully.
I'll send it Monday and be on the way to being done with this nightmare. I might even go out once the rain is stopped- just not sure how late the post office is open. This unfortunately means that Eiji (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=39178) is going to have to deal with G directly. But he hasn't responded to PM's, and indeed hasn't been on since the 11th. It's unfortunate, but that's what paypal requires.
Read what Paypal wants - they want you to eat the $100+ shipping because Gutz is defrauding them as well. And of course, as he has previously stated, anything returned will disappear along with the money that people paid for it. If you get that response, immediately call Paypal. IMMEDIATELY. Do NOT return goods to Goh - this makes you a party to willful fraud. Call Paypal immediately and raise hell. I'm on hold now and absolutely livid. I am not eating $110 in shipping no matter what.
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 21 May 2016, 10:49:41
Well, got good news today:QuoteYou’re eligible for a refund of $135.00 USD once you return the items listed below before May 31, 2016. Before you do so, please read our instructions carefully.
I'll send it Monday and be on the way to being done with this nightmare. I might even go out once the rain is stopped- just not sure how late the post office is open. This unfortunately means that Eiji (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=39178) is going to have to deal with G directly. But he hasn't responded to PM's, and indeed hasn't been on since the 11th. It's unfortunate, but that's what paypal requires.
Read what Paypal wants - they want you to eat the $100+ shipping because Gutz is defrauding them as well. And of course, as he has previously stated, anything returned will disappear along with the money that people paid for it. If you get that response, immediately call Paypal. IMMEDIATELY. Do NOT return goods to Goh - this makes you a party to willful fraud. Call Paypal immediately and raise hell. I'm on hold now and absolutely livid. I am not eating $110 in shipping no matter what.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/returns
Quote
We'll cover up to $30 of return shipping costs for up to 11 eligible PayPal purchases worldwide until 12/31/16.
The item is eligible for return shipping refund. And mine was only $17 to ship here, $8 of that was included in the what I paid, so will be refunded.
And as far as being a party to willful fraud... how do you figure that? They want the items returned to him in order to give me my refund. That seems reasonable to me.
Post by: WhitePlate on Sat, 21 May 2016, 11:05:39
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 21 May 2016, 11:26:27
Well, got good news today:QuoteYou’re eligible for a refund of $135.00 USD once you return the items listed below before May 31, 2016. Before you do so, please read our instructions carefully.
I'll send it Monday and be on the way to being done with this nightmare. I might even go out once the rain is stopped- just not sure how late the post office is open. This unfortunately means that Eiji (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=39178) is going to have to deal with G directly. But he hasn't responded to PM's, and indeed hasn't been on since the 11th. It's unfortunate, but that's what paypal requires.
Read what Paypal wants - they want you to eat the $100+ shipping because Gutz is defrauding them as well. And of course, as he has previously stated, anything returned will disappear along with the money that people paid for it. If you get that response, immediately call Paypal. IMMEDIATELY. Do NOT return goods to Goh - this makes you a party to willful fraud. Call Paypal immediately and raise hell. I'm on hold now and absolutely livid. I am not eating $110 in shipping no matter what.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/returnsQuoteWe'll cover up to $30 of return shipping costs for up to 11 eligible PayPal purchases worldwide until 12/31/16.
The item is eligible for return shipping refund. And mine was only $17 to ship here, $8 of that was included in the what I paid, so will be refunded.
And as far as being a party to willful fraud... how do you figure that? They want the items returned to him in order to give me my refund. That seems reasonable to me.
Check the address.
He's not there any more. He said so himself. Part of the reason for the sale was moving - well if he was moving, he's no longer at the same address. Not only that, but you have to ship it door to door tracked - so it's not $17. It's $60-100+. And if he doesn't pick it up or it isn't delivered, you don't get any refund - at all.
And if he didn't refund the other person? That makes it fraud. He's not shipping out the items he mis-shipped. He's keeping or trashing them. If I ship back Scarpia's board, Scarpia will never see it - Gutz already said that point blank. There's no reason to believe he'll ship anyone else's stuff out or issue their refunds either. Of course, what he foolishly forgot is that some of us have credit cards that will reverse Paypal charges in cases like this. And Paypal will come after him if that happens, because that's what the issuers require.
Like I said; had he proposed something reasonable and not said he intended to defraud people, it likely wouldn't have gotten to where it's at. But he decided that he was going to keep the money, keep the items, and disappear with both.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 21 May 2016, 11:34:13
Hi guys, anyone know what is the cheapest shipping method to Singapore that includes tracking? I'm in NY US btw. The package is .22 lbs and the dimensions are 6in x 4in x 3in.
There is no cheap way. You must ship it door to door tracked. That's a Paypal requirement and absolute. Plus you'll be shipping it to an address he's no longer at.
You MUST ship Global Express Guaranteed. This is a MINIMUM cost of this is at least $90 for even a SMALL package. Which must be padded to minimum size requirements.
Post by: katushkin on Sat, 21 May 2016, 11:38:34
Hi guys, anyone know what is the cheapest shipping method to Singapore that includes tracking? I'm in NY US btw. The package is .22 lbs and the dimensions are 6in x 4in x 3in.
There is no cheap way. You must ship it door to door tracked. That's a Paypal requirement and absolute. Plus you'll be shipping it to an address he's no longer at.
You MUST ship Global Express Guaranteed. This is a MINIMUM cost of this is at least $90 for even a SMALL package. Which must be padded to minimum size requirements.
Uhhhhh.... :confused:
Post by: WhitePlate on Sat, 21 May 2016, 12:00:47
Hi guys, anyone know what is the cheapest shipping method to Singapore that includes tracking? I'm in NY US btw. The package is .22 lbs and the dimensions are 6in x 4in x 3in.
There is no cheap way. You must ship it door to door tracked. That's a Paypal requirement and absolute. Plus you'll be shipping it to an address he's no longer at.
You MUST ship Global Express Guaranteed. This is a MINIMUM cost of this is at least $90 for even a SMALL package. Which must be padded to minimum size requirements.
I can't just ship it to the address that paypal told me to ship it to in the claim? I know I can ship it via usps priority mail international for $45 which includes tracking. Also what happened to the thing that said I was covered for return shipping costs?
"We'll cover up to $30 of return shipping costs for up to 11 eligible PayPal purchases worldwide until 12/31/16."
Mod edit: removed address
Post by: WhitePlate on Sat, 21 May 2016, 12:03:00
Hi guys, anyone know what is the cheapest shipping method to Singapore that includes tracking? I'm in NY US btw. The package is .22 lbs and the dimensions are 6in x 4in x 3in.
There is no cheap way. You must ship it door to door tracked. That's a Paypal requirement and absolute. Plus you'll be shipping it to an address he's no longer at.
You MUST ship Global Express Guaranteed. This is a MINIMUM cost of this is at least $90 for even a SMALL package. Which must be padded to minimum size requirements.
I can't just ship it to the address that paypal told me to ship it to in the claim? I know I can ship it via usps priority mail international for $45 which includes tracking. Also what happened to the thing that said I was covered for return shipping costs?
"We'll cover up to $30 of return shipping costs for up to 11 eligible PayPal purchases worldwide until 12/31/16."
owait I'm dumb, I didn't know I had to sign up for the refund. I will do that
But whats the catch for this refund activation?
Mod edit: removed address
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 21 May 2016, 13:19:39
Well, got good news today:QuoteYou’re eligible for a refund of $135.00 USD once you return the items listed below before May 31, 2016. Before you do so, please read our instructions carefully.
I'll send it Monday and be on the way to being done with this nightmare. I might even go out once the rain is stopped- just not sure how late the post office is open. This unfortunately means that Eiji (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=39178) is going to have to deal with G directly. But he hasn't responded to PM's, and indeed hasn't been on since the 11th. It's unfortunate, but that's what paypal requires.
Read what Paypal wants - they want you to eat the $100+ shipping because Gutz is defrauding them as well. And of course, as he has previously stated, anything returned will disappear along with the money that people paid for it. If you get that response, immediately call Paypal. IMMEDIATELY. Do NOT return goods to Goh - this makes you a party to willful fraud. Call Paypal immediately and raise hell. I'm on hold now and absolutely livid. I am not eating $110 in shipping no matter what.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/returnsQuoteWe'll cover up to $30 of return shipping costs for up to 11 eligible PayPal purchases worldwide until 12/31/16.
The item is eligible for return shipping refund. And mine was only $17 to ship here, $8 of that was included in the what I paid, so will be refunded.
And as far as being a party to willful fraud... how do you figure that? They want the items returned to him in order to give me my refund. That seems reasonable to me.
Check the address.
He's not there any more. He said so himself. Part of the reason for the sale was moving - well if he was moving, he's no longer at the same address. Not only that, but you have to ship it door to door tracked - so it's not $17. It's $60-100+. And if he doesn't pick it up or it isn't delivered, you don't get any refund - at all.
And if he didn't refund the other person? That makes it fraud. He's not shipping out the items he mis-shipped. He's keeping or trashing them. If I ship back Scarpia's board, Scarpia will never see it - Gutz already said that point blank. There's no reason to believe he'll ship anyone else's stuff out or issue their refunds either. Of course, what he foolishly forgot is that some of us have credit cards that will reverse Paypal charges in cases like this. And Paypal will come after him if that happens, because that's what the issuers require.
Like I said; had he proposed something reasonable and not said he intended to defraud people, it likely wouldn't have gotten to where it's at. But he decided that he was going to keep the money, keep the items, and disappear with both.
I know that emotions are high. But as we decided earlier, we're not going to get into victim blaming or shaming. Those were your exact words, so please stop spreading fear and doubt to influence people to do things the way you want them to. I know that if I ship it to him, and he's not there or he refuses, it will be sent back to me, and I will keep the item and get my refund. How do I know this? Experience. So... I know you're either misinformed, or... I'm just going to assume misinformed. I bought an LCD that the HDMI input didn't work on. That's the primary input I was going to use on it. I disputed it, and sent it back to him. It was returned. Paypal then refunded me, and I had a good LCD that just didn't work on HDMI.
As far as shipping, especially for the size of the package that he was talking about... that part is also incorrect. Gutz shipped it to me in a form that was good enough for paypal for less than $20.
Quote
To receive your refund, you need to:
Return the item(s) listed below to the seller address we provide.
Provide online shipment tracking information in your Resolution Center before May 31, 2016. The merchandise must be in the condition in which you received it and you are responsible for any costs associated with the return. If the transaction was $750.00 USD or more, we need signature confirmation from the seller.
Didn't quote that part originally. But no where do they say that you have to ship by a certain method. You just have to provide online shipment tracking.
Take a picture, inform paypal of his words (which I did by uploading it, and which might have been the reason that he edited it- because his own words condemned him), and let it work out. It's stressful, but putting what you want to happen on others isn't going to make it better- it will just divide us and make it worse. Those than can dispute and get their money back- CYA and do what you have to do. Those that can't? Unite in a complaint. And shipping to each other is precipitous, and should be considered as a last ditch effort.
It's a terrible situation. Let's not make it worse, ok? And just to reiterate- I do appreciate everything you've done, and are doing. But I can't let that appreciation affect my decision making, and what I know to do.
Hi guys, anyone know what is the cheapest shipping method to Singapore that includes tracking? I'm in NY US btw. The package is .22 lbs and the dimensions are 6in x 4in x 3in.
There is no cheap way. You must ship it door to door tracked. That's a Paypal requirement and absolute. Plus you'll be shipping it to an address he's no longer at.
You MUST ship Global Express Guaranteed. This is a MINIMUM cost of this is at least $90 for even a SMALL package. Which must be padded to minimum size requirements.
I can't just ship it to the address that paypal told me to ship it to in the claim? I know I can ship it via usps priority mail international for $45 which includes tracking. Also what happened to the thing that said I was covered for return shipping costs?
"We'll cover up to $30 of return shipping costs for up to 11 eligible PayPal purchases worldwide until 12/31/16."
owait I'm dumb, I didn't know I had to sign up for the refund. I will do that
But whats the catch for this refund activation?
Mod edit: removed address
The only catch as far as I can see is what is on the links on the page, i.e. https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/returns/terms
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 21 May 2016, 13:42:24
Hi guys, anyone know what is the cheapest shipping method to Singapore that includes tracking? I'm in NY US btw. The package is .22 lbs and the dimensions are 6in x 4in x 3in.
There is no cheap way. You must ship it door to door tracked. That's a Paypal requirement and absolute. Plus you'll be shipping it to an address he's no longer at.
You MUST ship Global Express Guaranteed. This is a MINIMUM cost of this is at least $90 for even a SMALL package. Which must be padded to minimum size requirements.
Uhhhhh.... :confused:
That's straight from Paypal's mouth - it must be tracked door to door, period. Because they don't want the seller saying they didn't get it back. SingPost's "to destination country" isn't sufficient.
So your choices are GXG, FedEx, UPS, or DHL. I priced it out already. GXG was the cheapest by far to Singapore.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 21 May 2016, 14:08:19
I know that emotions are high. But as we decided earlier, we're not going to get into victim blaming or shaming. Those were your exact words, so please stop spreading fear and doubt to influence people to do things the way you want them to. I know that if I ship it to him, and he's not there or he refuses, it will be sent back to me, and I will keep the item and get my refund. How do I know this? Experience. So... I know you're either misinformed, or... I'm just going to assume misinformed. I bought an LCD that the HDMI input didn't work on. That's the primary input I was going to use on it. I disputed it, and sent it back to him. It was returned. Paypal then refunded me, and I had a good LCD that just didn't work on HDMI.
As far as shipping, especially for the size of the package that he was talking about... that part is also incorrect. Gutz shipped it to me in a form that was good enough for paypal for less than $20.
This is false. Speak to someone on the phone. That level of tracking is NOT sufficient for a dispute return. Period. They told me that point blank, twice. Paypal as a point of absolute fact, does not consider tracking validity for shipments going out. They provide a means to communicate them - NO MORE THAN THAT. They do not consider them valid or invalid based on the level of tracking, nor do they consider tracking. It also doesn't consider that it doesn't get returned and just dropped off.
What I was told explicitly is that the package must have door to door tracking so the seller cannot say they didn't receive it. Meaning it must track WITHIN the destination country to verify that the recipient got it. Go check your SingPost tracking number - it NEVER says that it was delivered. Only that it arrived in the destination country. That's not good enough for Paypal returns. It's just not, per their own employees.
Paypal has the option to require you to return it to THEM within your own country, so there's nothing stopping you from asking them to let you do that. What they do with it, I don't know. But it's a hell of a lot cheaper. You might actually get some money back going that route.
And it sure isn't emotions to state the fact that anything shipped back has no guarantee of going out to the buyer, and almost certainly won't. Not when Gutz has explicitly said such, and thrown his little tantrums saying that over and over. He's already said he's not going to make good. So I am more than a little displeased with Paypal right now because they clearly didn't actually investigate the situation. They clearly think this is just a few isolated complaints and 'similar but not quite right' shipments. And they don't want to address that they're dealing with a problem seller.
Post by: ika on Sat, 21 May 2016, 14:08:25
Hi guys, anyone know what is the cheapest shipping method to Singapore that includes tracking? I'm in NY US btw. The package is .22 lbs and the dimensions are 6in x 4in x 3in.
There is no cheap way. You must ship it door to door tracked. That's a Paypal requirement and absolute. Plus you'll be shipping it to an address he's no longer at.
You MUST ship Global Express Guaranteed. This is a MINIMUM cost of this is at least $90 for even a SMALL package. Which must be padded to minimum size requirements.
Uhhhhh.... :confused:
That's straight from Paypal's mouth - it must be tracked door to door, period. Because they don't want the seller saying they didn't get it back. SingPost's "to destination country" isn't sufficient.
So your choices are GXG, FedEx, UPS, or DHL. I priced it out already. GXG was the cheapest by far to Singapore.
Is Priority Mail International tracking not good enough? It has been accurate "door to door" for me.
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 21 May 2016, 14:12:57
Hi guys, anyone know what is the cheapest shipping method to Singapore that includes tracking? I'm in NY US btw. The package is .22 lbs and the dimensions are 6in x 4in x 3in.
There is no cheap way. You must ship it door to door tracked. That's a Paypal requirement and absolute. Plus you'll be shipping it to an address he's no longer at.
You MUST ship Global Express Guaranteed. This is a MINIMUM cost of this is at least $90 for even a SMALL package. Which must be padded to minimum size requirements.
Uhhhhh.... :confused:
That's straight from Paypal's mouth - it must be tracked door to door, period. Because they don't want the seller saying they didn't get it back. SingPost's "to destination country" isn't sufficient.
So your choices are GXG, FedEx, UPS, or DHL. I priced it out already. GXG was the cheapest by far to Singapore.
Not true. The cheapest for me by far was DHL. It was a bit more than I expected, but still within the realm of possibilities- $31.85. Where did you get this door to door bit, if I may ask? It just says online tracking. I did, out of curiosity, ask paypal about the shipping costs. They are submitting a request for the extra small bit to the supervisor and will let me know in a couple of days. I also asked them about his threats... they said to upload an image of the package, and that would be good enough. She also said I can send it Priority Mail Express International if I want to- she was going to get authorization for up to $40 additional, just in case I wanted to do so. I also asked her about your door-to-door bit, and she said as long as it was online trackable and could serve as proof of delivery it would work, and Priority Mail Express International was good enough, as was DHL.
And it sure isn't emotions to state the fact that anything shipped back has no guarantee of going out to the buyer, and almost certainly won't. Not when Gutz has explicitly said such, and thrown his little tantrums saying that over and over. He's already said he's not going to make good. So I am more than a little displeased with Paypal right now because they clearly didn't actually investigate the situation. They clearly think this is just a few isolated complaints and 'similar but not quite right' shipments. And they don't want to address that they're dealing with a problem seller.
That is not our responsibility. Each of these were individual transactions. It's not our responsibility, or even in our aegis to ship it to the correct person, or to make sure they get their shipment. If we can- i.e. we have no recourse or we get to keep the item- then it's a good thing. But in many cases, that will be impossible.
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 21 May 2016, 15:46:13
Hope that helps!
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 21 May 2016, 16:33:37
Not true. The cheapest for me by far was DHL. It was a bit more than I expected, but still within the realm of possibilities- $31.85. Where did you get this door to door bit, if I may ask? It just says online tracking. I did, out of curiosity, ask paypal about the shipping costs. They are submitting a request for the extra small bit to the supervisor and will let me know in a couple of days. I also asked them about his threats... they said to upload an image of the package, and that would be good enough. She also said I can send it Priority Mail Express International if I want to- she was going to get authorization for up to $40 additional, just in case I wanted to do so. I also asked her about your door-to-door bit, and she said as long as it was online trackable and could serve as proof of delivery it would work, and Priority Mail Express International was good enough, as was DHL.
That may be the case for some packages. It's going to vary. DHL was $28 more based on my dimensions and weight.
It may also vary by representative you speak with. But chances are that your representative also didn't bother to check that it was going to a different country. That's the problem. Once it transitions package services, it stops being directly trackable it turns out. So in fact, it does not serve as proof of delivery. Unless the package is tracked after arrival in the destination country, it does not have proof of delivery. Simple as that.
That last leg tracking jacks the shipping prices through the damn roof for no reason I can possibly imagine.
That is not our responsibility. Each of these were individual transactions. It's not our responsibility, or even in our aegis to ship it to the correct person, or to make sure they get their shipment. If we can- i.e. we have no recourse or we get to keep the item- then it's a good thing. But in many cases, that will be impossible.
This whole damn thing is such a bloody mess it's not funny. And I am in no way blaming any victims.
Is it our responsibility? No. Does it potentially screw over other victims? Absolutely. If Gutz just says "oh well I shipped X untracked seamail," likely no refund for them. If they didn't open a dispute in time and it never shows up, no refund for them. Legally, we have no responsibility to get people their items - there is also no legal requirement for anyone to return anything at our own expense, in fact.
Here's some information on that (https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0181-unordered-merchandise). Technically if you have someone else's stuff, that's unordered merchandise - especially since Gutz has claimed that various people's packages were sent untracked SeaMail. That means he is 100% responsible for return shipping costs or writing off the unordered item - he is not legally entitled to have items shipped in error returned to him. See the FTC article.
Q. What should I do if the unordered merchandise I received was the result of an honest shipping error?
A. Write the seller and offer to return the merchandise, provided the seller pays for postage and handling. Give the seller a specific and reasonable amount of time (say 30 days) to pick up the merchandise or arrange to have it returned at no expense to you. Tell the seller that you reserve the right to keep the merchandise or dispose of it after the specified time has passed.
Emphasis on honest shipping error. Delivering the wrong items to the wrong people is considered an honest shipping error. We are the buyers - we have noticed the error. The seller did not notice the error until complaints started pouring in.
There are two distinct pieces here:
If you received items you did not order, it is unordered merchandise. You cannot legally be required to return it at your expense, per the FTC. Additional information here. (https://www.bbb.org/blog/2013/06/what-to-do-with-that-unordered-merchandise/)
Because you ordered items you did not, have not, or cannot receive (e.g. double sold items), you are legally entitled to a refund as any sale contract is void or was fraudulent.
Here is additional information from USPIS on merchandise received in error (https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/mailfraud/fraudschemes/othertypes/unsolicitedfraud.aspx). If the item is not delivered, it becomes a Fair Credit Billing Act issue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Credit_Billing_Act). Which yes, means you may need to contact your credit card company - Paypal may even advise you to do so.
All responsibility and costs for correcting both of these resides entirely with the seller - not the buyer!! I've done a bad job of explaining that part and it's on me. The seller is responsible for ensuring merchandise arrives as sold and covering the costs of honest mistakes, with no exceptions. Even if the shipping company screws up and loses it, it's on the seller to issue you a refund and then to file the claim with the shipping company. This isn't a special situation bringing that into force either - that's the case for everyone who sells items.
If Paypal wants to require you to return merchandise, that's a policy decision, but they don't actually have a legal leg to stand on if it's not what you ordered and you didn't receive what you did order. It's entirely in their financial interests to keep customers ignorant of legal rights like these. The idea that they are on the side of buyers is completely false - they are on their own side, period. And that side is only interested in making money off buyers and sellers. (See also how they deny legal rights through forced arbitration and prohibitions on class actions in the terms of service.) Legally if they want to require you to return an item to them or a seller, they have legally assumed responsibility for covering the shipping costs. Otherwise, you have a legal right to keep the merchandise if neither Paypal nor the seller agrees to cover costs to return merchandise received in error.
If you go this route, I would hope most people here are honest enough to help items reach their intended owners. Especially those who won't be getting refunds or can't get refunds. Frankly, everyone should be receiving a shipping refund at minimum.
TL;DR: You are not obligated to pay for return shipping, nor can any party legally require you to pay return shipping on items received in error. You cannot be charged for items not received.
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 21 May 2016, 17:57:39
2. Do you work for paypal?
I think, from what's going on here, I know the answers to both of those questions. With that in mind:
I see the references that you give... and thanks for that! But in the end, you're assuming that your interpretations of that information is indeed correct (he is not a company, nor entity, so that it applies is in question), and assuming that your Paypal correspondence is correct, and mine is incorrect. Which I totally get. I'm assuming the same thing on my end.
In the end, after looking at everything, I'm going with what I feel, rather than what someone else told me. My rep got me the shipping UP FRONT. She escalated to her boss, and got me CASH MONEY. No matter what, I'm not footing the shipping. She also saw the dispute, and where it was going to. I even asked to make sure. She said that DHL or Priority Express Mail (my two choices) were enough for shipping. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps I'm right. Time will tell. But if it all goes tits up, I'd rather say it was my choice from what I felt and researched rather than something I did because someone else said something or heard something. I'm providing my experiences so that others can learn from them- not to tell them what to do, nor advise them. In the end, that hold money talk, bull**** walks saying is speaking to me. I'm doing me. And I'll report what happens. And I advise all to do what their conscience, gut, reasoning and research tell them after considering all evidence.
TL;DR - You do you, I'm going to do me. And hope that all of us end up on the sunny side of this. But blame no one but myself for my own decisions.
Thanks again for all of your work on this. I really appreciate it.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 21 May 2016, 18:53:59
The details are not important but this is how I experienced the process.
In a nutshell I sold an item on ebay, got paid through Paypal, and shipped it (free shipping included) promptly.
After 2 weeks, without contacting me, the buyer started a dispute with ebay (claiming that it was defective because I used the term "non-slip" and she said that her keyboard still slid around). Paypal immediately sucked the selling price back out of my account (and I don't know whether she got it immediately or not), but it would have been easier to just put it "on hold" somehow.
She had asked to return it and I agreed. Instantly ebay dinged me for the return shipping, and, presumably sent her a voucher or prepaid label or something.
When I got the item back, and saw that she had hacked it into pieces, I contacted ebay with photos. They found in my favor and put the selling price back into my Paypal account and the return shipping into my ebay account. Why there, who knows?
I don't know what happened on the other end, but I do know that I was guilty until proven innocent. Once innocent, though, they made it right.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 21 May 2016, 20:19:52
I see the references that you give... and thanks for that! But in the end, you're assuming that your interpretations of that information is indeed correct (he is not a company, nor entity, so that it applies is in question), and assuming that your Paypal correspondence is correct, and mine is incorrect. Which I totally get. I'm assuming the same thing on my end.
In the end, after looking at everything, I'm going with what I feel, rather than what someone else told me. My rep got me the shipping UP FRONT. She escalated to her boss, and got me CASH MONEY. No matter what, I'm not footing the shipping. She also saw the dispute, and where it was going to. I even asked to make sure. She said that DHL or Priority Express Mail (my two choices) were enough for shipping. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps I'm right. Time will tell. But if it all goes tits up, I'd rather say it was my choice from what I felt and researched rather than something I did because someone else said something or heard something. I'm providing my experiences so that others can learn from them- not to tell them what to do, nor advise them. In the end, that hold money talk, bull**** walks saying is speaking to me. I'm doing me. And I'll report what happens. And I advise all to do what their conscience, gut, reasoning and research tell them after considering all evidence.
Yes, I forgot to mention that as usual, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. It's statements based on personal experience and research.
And that's your choice to assume those risks. That's entirely at your option. But you are taking a risk. And the fact is that the law is the law, and it applies to individuals the same as businesses. See also the parts where they mention it applies just as much to eBay sellers as Amazon.com, not to mention gods only know how much case law and international case law. Literal mountains, in large part thanks to Amazon and eBay. And yes, covering individuals and businesses. It's the responsibility of the shipper to ensure it goes to the right destination, period. If they send it to the wrong destination and it vanishes, that's their responsibility. If the shipper loses it, it's on them to make a good faith effort to resolve the issue.
There's zero gray area there - if someone sells you something on eBay and it never shows up, you get your money back. If they sell you a $500 fixie bike and you get a $50 Huffy, that's fraud and gets handled as such. If they bill you for 3 day shipping and it takes 7, you get your shipping refunded and they claim a refund from UPS. Whether or not they're a business. Does not change the law.
And I've been on both sides of it before - error in handling dropped a $185,000 router at the wrong damn address in another country, and someone's typo resulted in me getting a whole bunch of steaks. When I called the company to see how to fix it, they said to keep them. But the steaks were supposed to go just down the street, so I took 'em there, because that's how I am. Recovering the router only happened because the local fixer paid for some help and picked it up in person. I've also dealt with other legal matters and shipping as individual and business for a number of years, so I'm painfully familiar with more things than I have ever wanted to be in my life. Among them, what constitutes good faith.
If a seller asks you to return an item intended for someone else to get a full refund and doesn't specify it's fate, that's a good faith effort. (Presuming the full refund would also be refunding your shipping fees.) The responsibility then shifts to you as the buyer to justify why you don't want to return the merchandise. You can't hammer someone on a good faith effort. I've had shipping errors before, and I've always extended or accepted good faith cures.
But if they make you aware of their intent to condition your refund on assisting or engaging in unlawful or unethical conduct, that's bad faith. Which has extremely significant implications in any legal proceeding in the US. (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/bad+faith) Acting on a bad faith contract or offer, or participating in something you know to be in bad faith can expose you to personal liability. It also has the potential to completely screw you under the clean hands doctrine (http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=211), and can allow companies to legally refuse any claims.
If you prefer to read further information from legal professionals, I can suggest this article from the Virginia Law Review, Vol 54:195 and provided by Cornell Law Faculty Publications (http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2408&context=facpub). The root of case law can generally be described as being Kirke La Shelle Company v. The Paul Armstrong Company et al. 263 N.Y. 79; 188 N.E. 163; 1933 N.Y. - but you should contact an attorney admitted to practice law in your state or country with questions about their implementation of the Uniform Commercial Code.
In general, whether between a business and individual or two businesses or two individuals or any combination thereof, purchasing goods in exchange for money or services creates an implicit and implied contract between the parties. The money shot in the definition is: "violating basic standards of honesty in dealing with others." Laws will vary by jurisdiction. In Ohio for example, Revised Code Chapter 13, Section 1301.201 clearly defines that victims would be a "Buyer in ordinary course of business" (1301.201(B)9) or "Consumer" (1301.201(B)11) and "Good faith" as "honesty in fact and the observance of reasonable commercial standards of fair dealing" (1301.201(B)20). It further defines "Party" as "a person that has engaged in a transaction or made an agreement..." (1301.201(B)26) and "Person" as "an individual, corporation, business trust, estate, trust, partnership, limited liability company, association, joint venture, government, governmental subdivision, agency, or instrumentality, public corporation, or any other legal or commercial entity." (1301.201(B)27) Meaning the law applies equally to transactions between individuals as it does between businesses and individuals. This mirrors UCC Article 1, which many states have adopted and a form of which has been adopted internationally (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Commercial_Code).
The end result here is that because of the seller, victims need to tread unusually carefully to preserve their rights and recourse. It is entirely at the option of a buyer whether to accept or reject any cure offer - but it is the responsibility of the seller to extend one. However, it is the responsibility of the buyer to preserve their rights. Once you accept a conditional cure offer (e.g. refund in exchange for return,) you do not have further recourse. If the item vanishes in the mail or the seller simply claims they didn't receive it? You're not entitled to a refund and you have absolutely no recourse to get either your items or your money.
With the way Gutz has behaved, spoken, and handled things, anyone agreeing to ship anything back should use an extreme level of caution and then some. Especially since we have no way of knowing whether the address he gave Paypal is his old address, his new one, or even his at all - his account is unverified, meaning they do not have a factual record of his address. (Verification of address still involves sending a piece of mail.)
But then again there's also this doozy of a class action Paypal settled for more than $25M. (https://www.accountholdsettlement.com/) And this one that saw $15M of refunds for mishandling disputes. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/05/19/pay-pal-cfpb-penalties/27579087/) Oh and this one, (http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/nothing/paypal.asp) and this latest one (http://paymentweek.com/2016-3-31-class-action-lawsuit-against-paypal-claims-they-favored-buyers-over-sellers-in-disputes-10067/), and so on. So take anything Paypal tells you with a truckload of salt too.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Sun, 22 May 2016, 11:35:17
But I've updated our list again, and sent out a few more pm's to get more information.
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 22 May 2016, 11:46:13
So take anything Paypal tells you with a truckload of salt too.
But you're not. You're quoting what your rep told you as if it's gospel?
It's a lot of text thrown at an opinion, in other words.
As I said: You do you, I'm going to do me. And hope that all of us end up on the sunny side of this. But blame no one but myself for my own decisions.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Sun, 22 May 2016, 12:06:45
Steps you can take.
1. Call paypal
2. Reference the escalated dispute/dispute number/case
3. Talk about potential solutions, what can be done, and explain that there have been many orders that were wrong. Make sure that they understand that the reason why the dispute is rather unique is because of
a) HUGE SALES OF EVERYTHING
b) Multiple double/triple selling
c) Multiple methods of payment by other people.
d) Shipping from overseas and the seller has changed addresses - this is important. EMPHASIZE that you may not be able to get it back to him unless beserkfan responds in the disputes
4. Talk about shipping and how it affects you - ask about options, ask about the costs. Again, make the case that he is overseas, in a new address, and his negligence is the cause of everything. Quote, and provide evidence if you must (offer to have a follow up email) and show beserkfan's quotations about how he is not willing to refund people if they got more than they ordered etc etc. That post is quoted somewhere.
5. If paypal is adamant on you shipping, once again push back. Say how there will be many others who will get screwed over, many of them also paying through paypal. How will paypal reconcile with the others? How will paypal ensure that you, the buyer, will not get screwed out of the shipping bill, and at the end of the day, how many others part of the sales will be screwed over if you ship back
6. Have the representative EMAIL YOU A SUMMARY OF YOUR DISCUSSION. DO NOT GET OFF THE PHONE before you get an email stating what you discussed about, and your options and actions carrying onwards. HAVE IT IN WRITING.
7. Escalate to a higher representative if they will not do this for you.
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 22 May 2016, 12:22:59
In the face of the potentially huge influx of information, I just want to chime in and say that you're better off calling paypal and figure things out with a specialist.
Steps you can take.
1. Call paypal
2. Reference the escalated dispute/dispute number/case
3. Talk about potential solutions, what can be done, and explain that there have been many orders that were wrong. Make sure that they understand that the reason why the dispute is rather unique is because of
a) HUGE SALES OF EVERYTHING
b) Multiple double/triple selling
c) Multiple methods of payment by other people.
d) Shipping from overseas and the seller has changed addresses - this is important. EMPHASIZE that you may not be able to get it back to him unless beserkfan responds in the disputes
4. Talk about shipping and how it affects you - ask about options, ask about the costs. Again, make the case that he is overseas, in a new address, and his negligence is the cause of everything. Quote, and provide evidence if you must (offer to have a follow up email) and show beserkfan's quotations about how he is not willing to refund people if they got more than they ordered etc etc. That post is quoted somewhere.
5. If paypal is adamant on you shipping, once again push back. Say how there will be many others who will get screwed over, many of them also paying through paypal. How will paypal reconcile with the others? How will paypal ensure that you, the buyer, will not get screwed out of the shipping bill, and at the end of the day, how many others part of the sales will be screwed over if you ship back
6. Have the representative EMAIL YOU A SUMMARY OF YOUR DISCUSSION. DO NOT GET OFF THE PHONE before you get an email stating what you discussed about, and your options and actions carrying onwards. HAVE IT IN WRITING.
7. Escalate to a higher representative if they will not do this for you.
I'll echo that. It's exactly what I did. The rep said it would take the weekend to get anything done, but gave me a case number where the whole call was documented, and an e-mail (though i did get off the phone before she did that last step). Within a couple of hours, the money was in my account for shipping. Their usual process doesn't seem to take int'l shipping into account (which is why I'm ConUS only from now on), but there was no pushback when I told her the circumstances, and she looked into the dispute.
(Except for point 5. It's an individual transaction. From that perspective, getting it back to him, even if you know who has the items, doesn't seem to follow the return or dispute. If you want to go with getting people their stuff, you have to go all in, i.e. be willing to take the hit from not disputing. You can't expect them to give you the money back for nothing. They don't know that we will ship people their stuff- they just don't. And don't want to get involved in the mess, other than from a purely transactional basis. And I already know what happens if he doesn't accept the shipment- you get it back anyway, and can keep it.)
Post by: WhitePlate on Sun, 22 May 2016, 12:40:00
She also said I can send it Priority Mail Express International if I want to- she was going to get authorization for up to $40 additional, just in case I wanted to do so. I also asked her about your door-to-door bit, and she said as long as it was online trackable and could serve as proof of delivery it would work, and Priority Mail Express International was good enough, as was DHL.
Does that mean I can use Priority Mail International with USPS instead of Priority Mail EXPRESS International when shipping back the item so I can get my refund?
Post by: chuckdee on Sun, 22 May 2016, 13:02:18
Idk how to properly quote on GH but when chuckdee said this
She also said I can send it Priority Mail Express International if I want to- she was going to get authorization for up to $40 additional, just in case I wanted to do so. I also asked her about your door-to-door bit, and she said as long as it was online trackable and could serve as proof of delivery it would work, and Priority Mail Express International was good enough, as was DHL.
Does that mean I can use Priority Mail International with USPS instead of Priority Mail EXPRESS International when shipping back the item so I can get my refund?
(http://i.imgur.com/yg5WH0b.png)
The third option. I was able to get there by going to https://ircalc.usps.com/ and entering my details. I'm not sure if Priority Mail International is enough. I didn't ask. You should call for yourself and ask.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 22 May 2016, 13:06:05
I'm not sure if Priority Mail International is enough.
My experience is that Priority Mail International tracking stops once the package gets to the destination country.
Post by: WhitePlate on Sun, 22 May 2016, 14:21:40
Idk how to properly quote on GH but when chuckdee said this
She also said I can send it Priority Mail Express International if I want to- she was going to get authorization for up to $40 additional, just in case I wanted to do so. I also asked her about your door-to-door bit, and she said as long as it was online trackable and could serve as proof of delivery it would work, and Priority Mail Express International was good enough, as was DHL.
Does that mean I can use Priority Mail International with USPS instead of Priority Mail EXPRESS International when shipping back the item so I can get my refund?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/yg5WH0b.png)
The third option. I was able to get there by going to https://ircalc.usps.com/ and entering my details. I'm not sure if Priority Mail International is enough. I didn't ask. You should call for yourself and ask.
Ok thanks I'll call them today
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 23 May 2016, 06:41:25
I'm not sure if Priority Mail International is enough.
My experience is that Priority Mail International tracking stops once the package gets to the destination country.
This is correct. There is no proof of delivery, period. If you ship this method, you are risking getting no refund at all.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Mon, 23 May 2016, 09:41:33
Updated
Post by: lolpes on Mon, 23 May 2016, 09:49:22
I'm not sure if Priority Mail International is enough.
My experience is that Priority Mail International tracking stops once the package gets to the destination country.
This is correct. There is no proof of delivery, period. If you ship this method, you are risking getting no refund at all.
Sorry to intervene here but the tracking stops on the seller's country carrier website, and then passes on to the buyers country carrier website. please take this into account as most people simply assume the tracking stops once it leaves their country and this is not true. Just though I would share since I've had this experience.
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 23 May 2016, 11:07:15
I'm not sure if Priority Mail International is enough.
My experience is that Priority Mail International tracking stops once the package gets to the destination country.
This is correct. There is no proof of delivery, period. If you ship this method, you are risking getting no refund at all.
Sorry to intervene here but the tracking stops on the seller's country carrier website, and then passes on to the buyers country carrier website. please take this into account as most people simply assume the tracking stops once it leaves their country and this is not true. Just though I would share since I've had this experience.
Thanks for this info! How do you make the connection? Do you know of a reliable way?
I did see this service quoted by other paypal/ebay users that does seem to do it, but I wasn't sure from personal experience.
https://www.packagetrackr.com/
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 23 May 2016, 11:08:15
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing
Updated
Thanks again! Do you think we need a tab or note for people that sent their order back to G? Don't want to make it more confusing, but I did at least want to field the question.
Post by: ponnx on Thu, 26 May 2016, 05:44:12
(http://i.imgur.com/zhZxnLW.png)
Post by: biocalves on Thu, 26 May 2016, 16:14:02
Post by: gnarlsagan on Thu, 26 May 2016, 16:17:30
Has anyone from the west coast of the US received their packages from the "sea" mail? I don't have a clue when to expect a package and it's been 3 weeks since he supposedly shipped my goods.
I'm in the exact same position as you. He confirmed to me that it shipped, but provided no tracking. Nothing has arrived (I live in CA). I'll be sure to update this thread if/when I get anything.
Post by: nugglets on Thu, 26 May 2016, 16:28:52
Has anyone from the west coast of the US received their packages from the "sea" mail? I don't have a clue when to expect a package and it's been 3 weeks since he supposedly shipped my goods.
I'm in the exact same position as you. He confirmed to me that it shipped, but provided no tracking. Nothing has arrived (I live in CA). I'll be sure to update this thread if/when I get anything.
I got my package on the 14th, which was supposedly sea mail. Also received no tracking, but according to the customs label it was shipped on the 1st.
But I only ordered small things. A keycap set, LEDs, SIP sockets and stabs. Only the keyset and some LEDs I didn't ask for came, though.
Post by: gnarlsagan on Thu, 26 May 2016, 17:12:52
Has anyone from the west coast of the US received their packages from the "sea" mail? I don't have a clue when to expect a package and it's been 3 weeks since he supposedly shipped my goods.
I'm in the exact same position as you. He confirmed to me that it shipped, but provided no tracking. Nothing has arrived (I live in CA). I'll be sure to update this thread if/when I get anything.
I got my package on the 14th, which was supposedly sea mail. Also received no tracking, but according to the customs label it was shipped on the 1st.
But I only ordered small things. A keycap set, LEDs, SIP sockets and stabs. Only the keyset and some LEDs I didn't ask for came, though.
Wow that was quick. I only ordered one keyset as well. Hopefully it arrives soon.
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 26 May 2016, 17:33:09
I expect it to take a few days to get to the harbor, a week or 2 sitting on the dock, 2 weeks to cross the ocean, another week or 2 sitting on the dock on the West Coast, and another week to cross the country.
That puts my projected delivery about mid-June. Early June if I am lucky, late-June-early-July otherwise. Until then I can't fret about it.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 26 May 2016, 18:10:08
Post by: 3K on Thu, 26 May 2016, 18:18:26
I expect it to take a few days to get to the harbor, a week or 2 sitting on the dock, 2 weeks to cross the ocean, another week or 2 sitting on the dock on the West Coast, and another week to cross the country.
That feel when my packages do have a more interesting life than I do.
Post by: shrubkeys on Fri, 27 May 2016, 14:37:02
Has anyone from the west coast of the US received their packages from the "sea" mail? I don't have a clue when to expect a package and it's been 3 weeks since he supposedly shipped my goods.
Los Angeles. Mine took four days, start to finish. Of course, the parcel itself was missing essentially everything, but still - quite fast.
Post by: timerwin63 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 14:45:37
I'll add a picture of the set later.
Post by: biocalves on Fri, 27 May 2016, 15:18:01
Post by: qwack on Fri, 27 May 2016, 15:51:10
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 27 May 2016, 16:13:39
And I would have done as you did timerwin, but the amounts were not that balanced, and I didn't think to just type in a larger amount to receive as a refund. I thought they'd outright rule against you. Good on you for doing that!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: audax989 on Fri, 27 May 2016, 21:05:43
All the PayPal disputes are for guys who paid through an invoice right? AFAIK idiots like me who went through gift have no recourse?
Mine was a gift too. Sadfaise
Post by: timerwin63 on Sat, 28 May 2016, 02:41:51
I'm not trying to make this some kind of "I told you so" or victim blaming moment. I just think that at least something positive (learning) should come out of the ****ty situation some of you have been put in.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 28 May 2016, 10:11:19
now I always send through G&S. If the seller refuses to pay the fees, pony up and pay the 3-4% (whatever it is) yourself.
You should never send money as a gift unless it actually is a gift.
Frankly, I don't even want to receive money as a "gift" because it raises a red flag if you get very many of them.
edit - I have a birthday coming up in a couple of weeks, so if you all want to send me some gift money in a short period of time around mid-June, I will be able to easily explain it to Paypal
Post by: Skysophrenic on Sat, 28 May 2016, 11:16:12
Inform them that he insisted, quoting that he claimed that paypal tried to force him into a sellers account etc. At the very least, it'll be flagged in their system.
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 28 May 2016, 15:09:48
Oh, just as an FYI- tracking did work in the country.
(origination information clipped)
(http://i.imgur.com/k1IXQzy.png)
Post by: mind_funeral on Mon, 30 May 2016, 23:41:20
Post by: kekman on Tue, 31 May 2016, 02:32:06
Post by: Tyr on Tue, 31 May 2016, 02:34:31
Well, I still haven't received a package so I guess I'm ****ed. **** you berserk.
The vast majority of us are still waiting. Singapore Posts gives the average transit time for the sea shipping to my country as 8-15 weeks. So...
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 31 May 2016, 05:46:45
Well, I still haven't received a package so I guess I'm ****ed. **** you berserk.
The vast majority of us are still waiting. Singapore Posts gives the average transit time for the sea shipping to my country as 8-15 weeks. So...
Mine says 5-7 weeks, but I don't know exactly when (or if) it was actually posted.
Post by: Tyr on Tue, 31 May 2016, 05:53:16
Mine says 5-7 weeks, but I don't know exactly when (or if) it was actually posted.
I think all packages were posted around the same time in the Great Cleanse. Mine was handed over 30/04 and shipped 04/05. Sucks if you don't have tracking though.
Post by: mind_funeral on Tue, 31 May 2016, 09:11:10
Mine says 5-7 weeks, but I don't know exactly when (or if) it was actually posted.
I think all packages were posted around the same time in the Great Cleanse. Mine was handed over 30/04 and shipped 04/05. Sucks if you don't have tracking though.
I don't have tracking or even confirmation that he shipped me anything.
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 31 May 2016, 12:36:26
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 31 May 2016, 16:55:46
I contacted Paypal about the item being unable to be delivered. The address returned to was the only one Paypal has on file. They told me to just inform USPS to have it returned to me, keep my proof of postage, and they were going to close it in my favor, and I would get a full refund. As I said, I've already received a full refund (from PP and the rebate program) for the postage, so I consider this a win. Hopefully, others will have similar success.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 31 May 2016, 17:07:55
A final update from me:
I contacted Paypal about the item being unable to be delivered. The address returned to was the only one Paypal has on file. They told me to just inform USPS to have it returned to me, keep my proof of postage, and they were going to close it in my favor, and I would get a full refund. As I said, I've already received a full refund (from PP and the rebate program) for the postage, so I consider this a win. Hopefully, others will have similar success.
That is interesting. It looks like Paypal will be eating a lot of shipping fees on this one.
Post by: kekman on Tue, 31 May 2016, 17:08:09
A final update from me:
I contacted Paypal about the item being unable to be delivered. The address returned to was the only one Paypal has on file. They told me to just inform USPS to have it returned to me, keep my proof of postage, and they were going to close it in my favor, and I would get a full refund. As I said, I've already received a full refund (from PP and the rebate program) for the postage, so I consider this a win. Hopefully, others will have similar success.
congrats, hopefully others will get this degree of success
Post by: honeynugget on Tue, 31 May 2016, 17:31:44
G, if you're looking at the thread, can you let me know if you've shipped my stuff?
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 31 May 2016, 23:40:39
At this point, if you haven't gotten your items that were allegedly shipped in April? You're not getting anything. We already know for fact he didn't ship a lot of people's items, some of mine included. If you haven't opened a fraud claim stating item not received, do it now. If you get the item, cancel it later. But it is very clear that very very few people at all will be getting any items.
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 01 June 2016, 00:12:36
Bezerkfan stole and made away with more than $6,170.50 USD. If we presume an average shipping cost of $30 and the number of received items by box, and 16 received shipments to date, he has spent the grand sum of $480 USD on shipping to unload perhaps $200 of "unk". This means his profitable take based on the evidence at hand is at least $4,690.50 US
There is no proof whatsoever that the Seamail labels he's posted anywhere are not fraudulent or for unrelated shipments. There is nothing whatsoever tying them to a buyer, an item, or even a vague destination. They just say "yep, you shipped something from here."
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 01:23:13
I also did some quick napkin math to show you all just how massive the fraud is, and how desperately we need good data to get the spreadsheet updated with.
Bezerkfan stole and made away with more than $6,170.50 USD. If we presume an average shipping cost of $30 and the number of received items by box, and 16 received shipments to date, he has spent the grand sum of $480 USD on shipping to unload perhaps $200 of "unk". This means his profitable take based on the evidence at hand is at least $4,690.50 US
There is no proof whatsoever that the Seamail labels he's posted anywhere are not fraudulent or for unrelated shipments. There is nothing whatsoever tying them to a buyer, an item, or even a vague destination. They just say "yep, you shipped something from here."
This is incorrect..
His inventory alone is worth over $3000..
This entire sale has been Profit free from the beginning..
He also Shipped ALLL of the packages.. Just because you did not get them yet, as many people have not, DOES NOT mean he did not ship them.. (2-3 weeks sea mail)
Ultimately, YES mistakes were made,
but you -rootwyrm- are an alarmist pansy...
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 01:26:30
And this entire thread has been him throwing fud that Berserk was a scammer..
WHICH HE CLEARLY is NOT...
We all agree Berserk made mistakes, and his attitude about it wasn't the best..
But through most of it, he was still in contact and made attempts to fix things..
--ROOTWYRM-- is the person which ultimately prevented actions on part of Berserk..
By being a belligerent Oaf..
IN SUMMARY, Yes, Berserk fan screwed up..
But the REST OF IT, --Rootwyrm,, you did it to your damn self.. and the maliciousness with which you've perpetuated, has TOOK DOWN the numerous better outcomes possible within this deal for Other people..
By selfishly only looking to preserve your own interests, You diverted other buyer's course and Mobbed up other users unecessarily
You are crummy person.. to say the least.. as terrible as Berserk's attitude..
Post by: ponnx on Wed, 01 June 2016, 06:15:26
I got the package on 30th May.
Here is what I ordered.
Quote
- Ducky Side Printed keycaps $10 http://imgur.com/Quza3Ec
- Thick PBT colored grab bag $10 for 80 http://imgur.com/5VEWavu PENDING
- WYSE thick keycaps $8-15 http://imgur.com/48oAkGi [/s] PENDING
- 1 x Filco stock keycaps $5 http://imgur.com/5a0mIss
- Grab bags of at least 100 DSA keycaps, mostly red and white blanks but also numpads and novelties $20 http://imgur.com/D73gNWM PENDING
- Cherry Thin PBT – you get 1 set
- Chinese doubleshot keycaps $5 http://imgur.com/DCJITpH http://imgur.com/89xywVB
- 2 x transparent keycaps are $10 for a bag of 40 1u keycaps
- SP DCS random blanks, grab bags of over 250 each. Free.
- C07. Corsair K95, lubed 60g clears, SIP mod Old Glory Theme, $70 http://imgur.com/73pYdb9 http://imgur.com/C1N9OlJ http://imgur.com/Na4yyKE
- C10. Filco MJ1 fullsize, stock clears with new PBT doubleshot keycaps, $70 http://imgur.com/eV9FD6j
Take it with its original (worn) Filco keycaps and no PBT doubleshots, only $50.
And F22. Model M M5-2 with top right hand trackball. FREE http://imgur.com/Xhy0qpr
- New key caps for model M $20
Just to be honest. At first I was very excited since the package I got is around 9kgs and when I was talk to berserkfan
He said my package would weight around 10 so I actually though I will get what I really order.
But just like others. Not a single one is correct.
I got 2 ibm keyboards, 1 frame for the keyboard, and 2 bags of keycaps.
I tried contact him right away after I got the package. But no respond since.
Here are the pic
http://imgur.com/a/JezD5
Post by: Tyr on Wed, 01 June 2016, 07:16:59
But the REST OF IT, --Rootwyrm,, you did it to your damn self.. and the maliciousness with which you've perpetuated, has TOOK DOWN the numerous better outcomes possible within this deal for Other people..
I would've preferred a more gentile approach, more dialogue and at least for the packages to arrive before the pitchforks came out. But this isn't helping either. Rootwyrm and chuckdee have done a lot to organize the data of who ordered what and provide an overview of the situation and to inform others, they deserve credit for that. Everyone's making the best of a lousy situation the best they know how.
Post by: Venatorious on Wed, 01 June 2016, 07:19:43
This whole thing turned out as badly as it did due largely in part to -Rootwyrm's- actions..
And this entire thread has been him throwing fud that Berserk was a scammer..
WHICH HE CLEARLY is NOT...
We all agree Berserk made mistakes, and his attitude about it wasn't the best..
But through most of it, he was still in contact and made attempts to fix things..
--ROOTWYRM-- is the person which ultimately prevented actions on part of Berserk..
By being a belligerent Oaf..
IN SUMMARY, Yes, Berserk fan screwed up..
But the REST OF IT, --Rootwyrm,, you did it to your damn self.. and the maliciousness with which you've perpetuated, has TOOK DOWN the numerous better outcomes possible within this deal for Other people..
By selfishly only looking to preserve your own interests, You diverted other buyer's course and Mobbed up other users unecessarily
You are crummy person.. to say the least.. as terrible as Berserk's attitude..
I was actually somewhat afraid to say anything, but I have to agree with this. Rootwrym has been trying to get everyone to file a claim instead of working with berserk from the very beginning.
1+ to you tp :thumb:
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 01 June 2016, 07:29:57
I would've preferred a more gentile approach, more dialogue and at least for the packages to arrive before the pitchforks came out. But this isn't helping either. Rootwyrm and chuckdee have done a lot to organize the data of who ordered what and provide an overview of the situation and to inform others, they deserve credit for that. Everyone's making the best of a lousy situation the best they know how.
I'm not going to respond to the slanderous, libelous accusations of a teenage troll. He's not worth my time, and frankly, if his abusive counter-productive ****posting isn't removed, I'm more than happy to walk away from helping anyone. I cannot understand why the mods continue to allow such an obnoxious troll here, but I digress.
But apparently some people are complete morons who refuse to accept the fact that from day one beserkfan made it quite clear that he had absolutely no intention of working with anyone or making the least effort to make things right. Before a single claim was filed. Here's the original post that started this thread as a reminder for those morons.
Quote from: beserkfan
Hello Everyone who bought stuff from me
Sorry for the delay. I am working very long hours now. Looks like I cannot retire peacefully from geekhack as planned.
A good many mistakes were made in the shipping out rush. Wife had to send over 80 packages within a few days and she’s not familiar with the descriptions. (And quite fed up too, so she just stuffed packages with whatever seemed right or approximately the same value.)
At least 1 box went out totally wrong because I earmarked a box for that person’s stuff in March. He changed his orders several times so I procrastinated with packing, took out his granite keycaps, white and green switches, and eventually forgot that box hadn’t been packed. This guy had a big order, and he got 0% of his order. Instead he got only the keyboard kit which had occupied the box all along. He got very low value. Now I have no idea how to send him what he ordered.
I do not know what was sent/ mis-sent to any particular person, and am currently unable to trace where the items he/she purchased were sent. It was a great rush to deal with so many complex and changing orders and I was not the one doing it but unfortunate family members. At least 5 people were still changing their orders on May 3; 3 people hadn’t paid and E3E outright refused to pay last minute after trolling me for a week. Several people threw me their addresses but never paid shipping nor responded to reminders.
There were a number of double-sold items. These tended to be cheap items that I didn’t take heed of, had dubious buyers inquiring about them and taking too long to pay, or which had complications like paypal refunds screwing up my records. The most expensive items like scarface keycaps, 87 key zinc blanks and Model M SSK were never double sold. For the double sold items, wife was supposed to just stuff buyers with unsold things because so many things were marked pending but actually unsold thanks to the usual sleazy dibs callers never coming through with payment.
A number of missent items had the correct buyer labelled. I believe the most constructive solution is to contact the intended recipient and send him/her the stuff. Several people I talked to on PM refused this solution, insisting that I refund them fully + pay for the shipping before they would even contemplate sending the legit buyer his property.
Let’s be realistic about this.
I am now very busy and work 7 days a week. I did not expect to be so ultra busy or I would not have planned my sale at this time. I sold things in a great rush and was under pressure to clear my house as planned. Until now I still have uncollected payments!
I do not have money to refund everyone fully. Nor do I have the desire to. I sold many things at literally pennies on the dollar. I gave away many things. I had a terrible selling experience in April. I wish to just walk away from it all.
Wife is angry at me. I deserve the punishment. And I have long vowed to family that I will stay away from geekhack until house is fixed. With my current skills, house won’t be fixed anytime soon.
My paypal account is currently depleted because I had to pull money asap to pay for shipping. There is no money left. See this negative amount? You can squeeze blood from a stone?
After getting a bunch of unconstructive demands from irate buyers, I’m going to be my usual GutzGrouch self. I’ll tell you all the unvarnished truth.
Most of the costs involved shipping. That gives me little room to refund people for wrongly shipped things.
I do not live hand to mouth, and I certainly can put some money back into paypal account to refund dissatisfied people. But I can’t give everyone a full refund. Simple as that. And we won’t know what everyone got until all sea mail packages arrive. Obviously the people who got the least relative to what they were supposed to get, should get priority.
My original goal to clean out my house has been attained. All remaining keyboard items total less than 1 cubic meter. When I have time I can still go through my remaining stuff to see if there was unsent stuff that people paid for. Some personal stuff and lots of never-sold stuff got sent anyway so some people will get things they did not pay for. Lots of keycaps were used as filler in big boxes. This is especially in the case of my massdrop granite keycaps, which looked very ugly, old and shabby to my wife so she thought they had no value.
Laugh all you want. I am keeping no granites for myself. I even put out a review criticizing them, and directed most prospective buyers to the same review because I didn’t want dissatisfied buyers.
Am currently budgeting $2k USD for various refunds. Money is not going to go out until I get a better picture of what has been sent and who got what. Anyone who got more value than what he paid for, will not be refunded. Not to be an SOB about it but it is just impossible to refund everyone. I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.
I have good reason to suspect that some people got more, and are either keeping quiet, or else are claiming they got less since it is easier to join the chorus of Gutz-haters.
Some geekhackers are already showing their less attractive side here. 1 guy filed complaint without trying to contact me.
Turns out he received someone’s very substantial shipment. It was wrong, but it wasn’t low value stuff like a keyboard kit. It was almost certainly more than what he paid.
Then he claimed to paypal that I sent him damaged goods. (And admitted in the same complaint that they weren’t damaged, just someone else’s stuff.)
Then tried to sell the expensive keycaps sent to him by mistake, to someone else. That someone else told me. This guy had hidden the fact that wife sent him valuable keycaps.
Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used. If I choose to escalate your complaint to a Return, you are going to have to pay a lot of money to ship stuff back to Singapore before you get refunded. We have shipping invoices that say 5kg and 10kg of ‘keyboards’ and ‘keyboard parts’, so sending me a postcard with a tracking number is going to get you hit with a buyer fraud charge.
Most of the double sold items were in fact, mid to high dollar items, contrary to his false statements. The confirmed double sold items so far are: (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing)
- KBC Poker X - $35
- KBT Race 75% - $50
- Corsair K95 - $70
- Orihalcon SDL to USB - $15
- Filco MJ1 fullsize - $70, sold three times
- IBM Model M13 - $80 - yes this is the one YOU bought, Tyr
- IBM Model M13 WOB caps - $?? - sold three times
- Filco SA Profile Keycap Set - $?? - sold three times
- IBM "Bigfoot" (F27) - $??
- Ducky Thick PBT Blue and Gray - $30
- Massdrop Granite Core Set - $20+ - sold 5 sets at least that we know of
Who said his explicit intent was to refuse to refund people? beserkfan did. "I do not live hand to mouth, and I certainly can put some money back into paypal account to refund dissatisfied people. But I can’t give everyone a full refund. Simple as that. And we won’t know what everyone got until all sea mail packages arrive. Obviously the people who got the least relative to what they were supposed to get, should get priority." "Am currently budgeting $2k USD for various refunds. Money is not going to go out until I get a better picture of what has been sent and who got what."
Really, and how many of you did he actually refund up front as opposed to excuses for why he couldn't or wouldn't, like waiting for packages he didn't ship to arrive? Where is Gutz to find out what people actually got? We sure don't know. Neither does Paypal. He's just flat out skipped town.
Who threw his wife under the bus and blamed her for everything instead of owning up and taking responsibility? beserkfan did. "This is especially in the case of my massdrop granite keycaps, which looked very ugly, old and shabby to my wife so she thought they had no value."
Who immediately accused the entire community of basically stealing from him and lying about it to be Gutz-haters? That would be beserkfan. "I have good reason to suspect that some people got more, and are either keeping quiet, or else are claiming they got less since it is easier to join the chorus of Gutz-haters."
If you're not going to be constructive, if you're not going to contribute, if you're just going to victim blame, if you're going to try to defend Gutz, if you're just going to try and start ****? GTFO this thread and preferably GTFO this entire forum. Better still, go join Gutz in whatever hidey-hole he's gone to that apparently lacks any internet access whatsoever.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 07:34:39
Though I mean every word of it..
At least parts of --Rootwyrms-- later actions to rectify the situation is in the right direction.
And we are thankful for that industriousness.
I believe everyone has goodness in them.
DIGG - Deep PEOPLE... Dig - deep..
Hopefully everyone who got the wrong package, whether it is greater or lesser than the value of the purchase, please speak up and get in touch..
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 07:41:16
I would've preferred a more gentile approach, more dialogue and at least for the packages to arrive before the pitchforks came out. But this isn't helping either. Rootwyrm and chuckdee have done a lot to organize the data of who ordered what and provide an overview of the situation and to inform others, they deserve credit for that. Everyone's making the best of a lousy situation the best they know how.
I'm not going to respond to the slanderous, libelous accusations of a teenage troll. He's not worth my time, and frankly, if his abusive counter-productive ****posting isn't removed, I'm more than happy to walk away from helping anyone. I cannot understand why the mods continue to allow such an obnoxious troll here, but I digress.
But apparently some people are complete morons who refuse to accept the fact that from day one beserkfan made it quite clear that he had absolutely no intention of working with anyone or making the least effort to make things right. Before a single claim was filed. Here's the original post that started this thread as a reminder for those morons.
^^ This is absolutely not true..
Even after you started slinging fud at Berserkfan..
He was still in contact with many people attempting to work out a solution behind the scenes.
He was willing to put in EVEN MORE MONEY, to fix a PROFIT FREE Sale...
It is impossible to keep posting updates everywhere, just because you did not see it on an upfront thread, does not mean it was not going on.
By pushing a Claim against Berserkfan so early, ONTOP of terrible Personal-Insults, you've backed him into a corner where it's much better to just settle with Paypal collections than to continue coordinating the fix for people WHO DIDN"T EVEN RECEIVE THEIR packages yet.
--Rootwyrm-- I am not saying you are all bad.. THanks for all of your efforts to coordinate so far, But you did start people on the wrong resolution, which is a large part of what began the cascade failure..
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 07:55:05
Tp4 will forgive your emotional outbursts and insults towards the Tp4.
The Tp4 is Magnanimous.
However, Please, let's continue this cordially, and keep statements about facts and fixes..
Your table of items shipped is positive.. All of geekhack thanks you for that.
Your allegations on Berserkfan's Character and Motivations are plain wrong !!
Post by: WNovizar on Wed, 01 June 2016, 08:05:09
Okay. After wait for the 2 days for the response from Berserkfan.I almost flipped myself and hoping that what you had received is not mine when you said that you received 2 IBM boards
I got the package on 30th May.
Here is what I ordered.Quote- Ducky Side Printed keycaps $10 http://imgur.com/Quza3Ec
- Thick PBT colored grab bag $10 for 80 http://imgur.com/5VEWavu PENDING
- WYSE thick keycaps $8-15 http://imgur.com/48oAkGi [/s] PENDING
- 1 x Filco stock keycaps $5 http://imgur.com/5a0mIss
- Grab bags of at least 100 DSA keycaps, mostly red and white blanks but also numpads and novelties $20 http://imgur.com/D73gNWM PENDING
- Cherry Thin PBT – you get 1 set
- Chinese doubleshot keycaps $5 http://imgur.com/DCJITpH http://imgur.com/89xywVB
- 2 x transparent keycaps are $10 for a bag of 40 1u keycaps
- SP DCS random blanks, grab bags of over 250 each. Free.
- C07. Corsair K95, lubed 60g clears, SIP mod Old Glory Theme, $70 http://imgur.com/73pYdb9 http://imgur.com/C1N9OlJ http://imgur.com/Na4yyKE
- C10. Filco MJ1 fullsize, stock clears with new PBT doubleshot keycaps, $70 http://imgur.com/eV9FD6j
Take it with its original (worn) Filco keycaps and no PBT doubleshots, only $50.
And F22. Model M M5-2 with top right hand trackball. FREE http://imgur.com/Xhy0qpr
- New key caps for model M $20
Just to be honest. At first I was very excited since the package I got is around 9kgs and when I was talk to berserkfan
He said my package would weight around 10 so I actually though I will get what I really order.
But just like others. Not a single one is correct.
I got 2 ibm keyboards, 1 frame for the keyboard, and 2 bags of keycaps.
I tried contact him right away after I got the package. But no respond since.
Here are the pic
http://imgur.com/a/JezD5
Post by: Tyr on Wed, 01 June 2016, 08:11:45
But apparently some people are complete morons who refuse to accept the fact that from day one beserkfan made it quite clear that he had absolutely no intention of working with anyone or making the least effort to make things right. Before a single claim was filed. Here's the original post that started this thread as a reminder for those morons.
Yes all true. But someone posting a rant in a stressful situation isn't necessarily how they will feel forever.
I have on occasion been called hopelessly naive though, so there's that. :))
Oh well, could be another month or longer before my
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 09:07:15
Though I mean every word of it..
And I think you were wrong. So there we are. From the BEGINNING, even BEFORE Rootwyrm started in on this, Berserk was NOT taking responsibility for his actions, and was NOT even responding when called on it.
I got mine before MOST people. So it wasn't the crazy show it is now. I contacted him OFF of paypal. And got no response for DAYS. Then I filed a dispute on paypal to get him to respond. He responded in less than an hour. That bit about being crazy working? Hmmm... Then he was responsive, though it was just to DENY any responsibility and culpability, make threats, and pass on a guilt trip. What really got me into escalating the dispute?
I asked very simply "What are you going to do to rectify this."
He responded with more Boo Hoos, feel sorry for me.
I asked again, very simply "What are you going to do to rectify this."
And received NO response for 2 DAYS. So I escalated.
He could have EASILY stopped this by BEING UP FRONT, HONEST, and having a BIT of INTEGRITY.
"Hey, to all affected. I ****ed up. A lot of packages are sent to the wrong address, but I want to make this right, no matter what it takes. Give things a chance to settle down, and let me find what I can. If we can cross packages, I'll pay for it. If we can't, I'll give you your money back. But I will make it right. My apologies again, and thanks for your patience."
The key word isn't in all of the statement, though a PLAN does help. The key word is in the first bit. "I ****ED UP". Not my wife, not the postman, and certainly not the people involved. QUIT VICTIM BLAMING. Has he CONTACTED or REFUNDED ANYONE? Who in their right mind pays 2.8k in overages without contacting ANYONE? And the TONE of his POSTS. And when you're out of money, for whatever reason, and are getting NOTHING from the one that TOOK IT IN GOOD FAITH, it tends to erode your faith in humanity.
And Sky was a big part of helping too. So thanks to him and Root. Do I disagree with some of what was said? Yes. But I'm more willing to give allowances to them for putting in the work to at least try to get SOMETHING out of this ****show.
Are you affected? Just wondering since you're casting blame on those that were.
Post by: UnFocused on Wed, 01 June 2016, 09:12:23
Better still, go join Gutz in whatever hidey-hole he's gone to that apparently lacks any internet access whatsoever.
His GH profile shows:
"Last Active: Wed, 01 June 2016, 00:42:54"
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 09:31:01
And Sky was a big part of helping too. So thanks to him and Root. Do I disagree with some of what was said? Yes. But I'm more willing to give allowances to them for putting in the work to at least try to get SOMETHING out of this ****show.
--Rootwyrm-- has been relentless about painting Berserkfan as a Scammer to strengthen his case against Paypal..
He aimed to prove dishonestly, that Berserkfan had the Intention to screw people from the very beginning..
That is a downright lie...
Look what's really happened..
This sale was NON-Profit, The majority of the prices were below cost.
People are getting packages.. though the shipping mistakes are apparent, the items in totality does not indicate Berserk fan shorted the sum sale-value.
Berserk in the beginning of this debacle has made statements that he was willing to put additional money up to $2000 in rectification. Also indicating that it is IMPOSSIBLE to completely fix it for everyone, because NOT all the people who got packages exceeding their costs will be upstanding and come forward..
This sale, from the start, at Berserkfan's perspective is A LOSS, then the shipping mistake, LOSS upon a LOSS, THEN he said he was willing to work something out up to $2000, a LOSS upon a LOSS upon a LOSS..
What sort of scammer comes up with this kind of scam..
So, this at the very least indicate BERSERK is NOT a Scammer..
Then the fallout with paypal..
You guys went all pitchfork following --Rootwyrm's-- haste..
The magnitude of this sale is enormous from a single person perspective.. As large and more complicated than any group-buy due to the many different items involved..
How fast are group-buy responses, Sometimes MONTHS... Yet you guys filed against Berserk within 2 weeks..
Then there's the personal attacks.. which --Rootwyrm-- has also been the main engine of.
How can anyone's motivation to fix the situation (WHICH HE WAS DOING, albeit slowly), be improved by all the yelling you guys did..
And regarding your personal case --chuckdee-- .. WTF, what the heck are you expecting, when ONLY very few packages have arrived..
How much could Berserk really organize at the point you all filed against him, when there was so little information in the chain about what went where...
He could have done the communications better.. But he could NOT have attempted to Fix it any faster.
Berserkfan is not a man for smooth prose or fine negotiation.. But he has meant no malice, and was INDEED in the process of fixing things..
Berserkfan was Negligent, but many of ya'll has shifted that into Berserk is a scammer..
That is unfair, unjust, and UNTRUE.. !!
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 01 June 2016, 09:46:50
But basically, it will be up to individuals to inventory what they get and compare it to the list of theirs and other people's orders.
I anticipate many of us will pay shipping (hopefully domestic) via Paypal to others to cover forwarding certain items on to their proper original destinations.
But I see this as a series of private agreements between individuals, and nobody can complain about paying shipping (albeit for the 2nd time) to the good Samaritans who are doing them a big favor.
The existence of the spreadsheet is wonderful and essential, and we must all express our deepest gratitude to skysophrenic and rootwyrm for building and maintaining it.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 09:59:49
And regarding your personal case --chuckdee-- .. WTF, what the heck are you expecting, when ONLY very few packages have arrived..
How much could Berserk really organize at the point you all filed against him, when there was so little information in the chain about what went where...
I expected him to man the **** up. That's not too much to ask. You don't even know the intricacies of what was done. I filed. After he didn't respond. Then I escalated. After he didn't respond. I could post the whole transcript, and that would shut you up. Because it clearly shows that I treated him like a mistake had been made, and made reasonable claims. And never yelled at him. What I quoted before? That was the whole of my question. Do you see any yelling?
Again, are you a claimant? If not, then quit victim blaming and covering.
A simple, "I ****ed up", not blaming anyone else, would have gone quite far. How much does it take to say, my bad, my fault, and take blame? Can you answer that?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 10:07:26
And regarding your personal case --chuckdee-- .. WTF, what the heck are you expecting, when ONLY very few packages have arrived..
How much could Berserk really organize at the point you all filed against him, when there was so little information in the chain about what went where...
I expected him to man the **** up. That's not too much to ask. You don't even know the intricacies of what was done. I filed. After he didn't respond. Then I escalated. After he didn't respond. I could post the whole transcript, and that would shut you up. Because it clearly shows that I treated him like a mistake had been made, and made reasonable claims. And never yelled at him. What I quoted before? That was the whole of my question. Do you see any yelling?
Again, are you a claimant? If not, then quit victim blaming and covering.
A simple, "I ****ed up", not blaming anyone else, would have gone quite far. How much does it take to say, my bad, my fault, and take blame? Can you answer that?
Look chuck, you have to understand, some people are very poor-negotiators..
But they mean well, and they're upstanding..
Berserk is among one of these..
I'm not saying you personally yelled at him through your private conversations.
But much of this thread is clearly very insulting and imprecise as to where the faults are.
Berserk said what he said while angry and nervous... Perhaps he's a man who could never be CEO and stay level.. But again, NOT a scammer.. and a FIX was going to happen given some time to cool..
That possibility was thwarted by the over-reaction which took place beginning with rootwyrm and the rest of the mob..
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 10:38:36
How good of a negotiator do you have to be to say, "I ****ed up"?A simple, "I ****ed up", not blaming anyone else, would have gone quite far. How much does it take to say, my bad, my fault, and take blame? Can you answer that?Look chuck, you have to understand, some people are very poor-negotiators..
I'm not saying you personally yelled at him through your private conversations.But you did say exactly that. Words mean things. And I never said that he started out as a scammer. Just that he ****ed up. And he's never owned that. Owning that it was entirely his fault would mitigate a lot of this.
But much of this thread is clearly very insulting and imprecise as to where the faults are.
The faults are squarely with him. We delivered money, he didn't deliver items. Again, man the **** up, or just dump everything if you're not willing to. The fault is squarely with him.
That possibility was thwarted by the over-reaction which took place beginning with rootwyrm and the rest of the mob..
There we go victim blaming again. He needed to take this by the horns- not take half measures and such. And not blame the customers, no matter how they respond. And you still don't seem to get the progression, nor how Paypal works.
You file a dispute. If he wants to work with the individuals he can. He showed no inclination to do so. That, more than anything else, escalated the problem.
And no matter how bold and big you make your posts, that fact doesn't change. You say he's working with people behind the scenes. Unless those people come forth, or he comes forth, we can't just the veracity of that statement. But that hasn't happened. Based on what do you make these claims?
(As an aside, please stop calling out Root. He's a victim. And it strikes me the wrong way a lot of the things that you've said after the work he's put in this. And saying you're sorry, but you meant every word- well, you might as well not have said you're sorry. Because you're not)
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 10:53:29
______________
There is no dispute that mistakes were made..
But statements such as Berserk is a scammer is untrue.. along with -Rootwyrm's- napkin math about how much money Berserk has made off with.. Berserk has made NO money in this, and Now he's also most likely lost much of the inventory
Berserk was indeed planning for a fix, why else was he budgeting the $2000 while he was already negative $900..
The fact is, you guys jumped the gun.
Berserk was merely not responding to all the fud that was happening.. because anything he responds to would've been pointless at that point anyway, when not all the packages arrived..
The timing makes a huge difference.... You are faulting him for scamming, while he was merely holding back on Pointless - Communication..
In retrospect, Possibly better talk would've calmed the alarmists, but he could not have known the reaction would be so irreparable..
As for the fix, AT NO POINT was he saying NOTHING-AT-ALL will be done.. he was saying in his way that a fix will come, it is happening, but it will likely not please everyone, because some parts of the logistics is untrack-able..
Every post he's made, he has mentioned only that SOME people will be screwed regardless, due to that logistics problem.. and that he will fix as much as he could..
That language has been completely altered into, Berserk has abandoned us completely, and nothing will be done.. WHICH WAS NOT the case..
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 11:00:25
______________
There is no dispute that mistakes were made..
But statements such as Berserk is a scammer is untrue.. along with -Rootwyrm's- napkin math about how much money Berserk has made off with.. Berserk has made NO money in this, and Now he's also most likely lost much of the inventory
Berserk was indeed planning for a fix, why else was he budgeting the $2000 while he was already negative $900..
The fact is, you guys jumped the gun.
Berserk was merely not responding to all the fud that was happening.. because anything he responds to would've been pointless at that point anyway, when not all the packages arrived..
The timing makes a huge difference.... You are faulting him for scamming, while he was merely holding back on Pointless - Communication..
In retrospect, Possibly better talk would've calmed the alarmists, but he could not have known the reaction would be so irreparable..
As for the fix, AT NO POINT was he saying NOTHING-AT-ALL will be done.. he was saying in his way that a fix will come, it is happening, but it will likely not please everyone, because some parts of the logistics is untrack-able..
Every post he's made, he has mentioned only that SOME people will be screwed regardless, because due to that logistics problem.. and that he will fix as much as he could..
That language has been completely altered into, Berserk has abandoned us completely, and nothing will be done.. WHICH WAS NOT the case..
I see that you didn't read my post at all. I received my rectification. So having this conversation with someone who clearly has his heels dug in, no matter what he doesn't know, and no matter that he has no involvement serves no purpose.
I'll repeat one last time. I got my package early. I had a timetable that I had to file in. He was completely non-responsive. There were no threads, and nothing about a mass wrong being done at the time I sent him the question. There is also the idea of the multiple selling of the same item. He never said it was his fault. He even threw his wife under the bus. What would he do to me? Especially when he wasn't answering. I don't care the reasons. I made an individual transaction with him. And he was not prepared to even answer anything about a plan.
And he said that he had no intent of refunding or repairing all of the damage- in his own words, posted without alteration above.
I didn't jump the gun, but you're welcome to believe what you will. You still haven't even answered where you're getting your counter claims from.
Oh well, whatever. I'm done giving mindshare to this mess. Be well, and have a nice day.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 11:06:26
I see that you didn't read my post at all. I received my rectification. So having this conversation with someone who clearly has his heels dug in, no matter what he doesn't know, and no matter that he has no involvement serves no purpose.
I'll repeat one last time. I got my package early. I had a timetable that I had to file in. He was completely non-responsive. There were no threads, and nothing about a mass wrong being done at the time I sent him the question. There is also the idea of the multiple selling of the same item. He never said it was his fault. He even threw his wife under the bus. What would he do to me? Especially when he wasn't answering. I don't care the reasons. I made an individual transaction with him. And he was not prepared to even answer anything about a plan.
And he said that he had no intent of refunding or repairing all of the damage- in his own words, posted without alteration above.
I didn't jump the gun, but you're welcome to believe what you will. You still haven't even answered where you're getting your counter claims from.
Oh well, whatever. I'm done giving mindshare to this mess. Be well, and have a nice day.
Berserk was going for a fix, he said so..
He only alluded to the fact that, he couldn't fix ALL OF IT.. because not everyone who got a better deal from the mistake will step forward..
THAT was the fact.. At the point when you received your package , nothing could be done , regardless of what he said.. because he doesn't know where your stuff was..
He could not have begun the refund process at that point, because again, there's a limit on the budget (generous $2000) for the refund process.. He's not a millionaire who could wave money at problems.
You and many others jumped the gun by filing... which gave him little wiggle room to recoup at least some transactions between buyers and settle things amicably..
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 11:10:50
I see that you didn't read my post at all. I received my rectification. So having this conversation with someone who clearly has his heels dug in, no matter what he doesn't know, and no matter that he has no involvement serves no purpose.
I'll repeat one last time. I got my package early. I had a timetable that I had to file in. He was completely non-responsive. There were no threads, and nothing about a mass wrong being done at the time I sent him the question. There is also the idea of the multiple selling of the same item. He never said it was his fault. He even threw his wife under the bus. What would he do to me? Especially when he wasn't answering. I don't care the reasons. I made an individual transaction with him. And he was not prepared to even answer anything about a plan.
And he said that he had no intent of refunding or repairing all of the damage- in his own words, posted without alteration above.
I didn't jump the gun, but you're welcome to believe what you will. You still haven't even answered where you're getting your counter claims from.
Oh well, whatever. I'm done giving mindshare to this mess. Be well, and have a nice day.
Berserk was going for a fix, he said so..
He only alluded to the fact that, he couldn't fix ALL OF IT.. because not everyone who got a better deal from the mistake will step forward..
THAT was the fact.. At the point when you received your package , nothing could be done , regardless of what he said.. because he doesn't know where your stuff was..
He could not have begun the refund process at that point, because again, there's a limit on the budget (generous $2000) for the refund process.. He's not a millionaire who could wave money at problems.
You and many others jumped the gun by filing... which gave him little wiggle room to recoup at least some transactions between buyers and settle things amicably..
At this point, it's been over a month since the payment was made. I had no more time. Just wanted to make sure I cleared up your misconceptions. And something could have been done. He could have said that it was his fault and he was going to make it right. Again, you gloss over posts to make your own points. And 2k isn't generous when he cleared more than that. Did he ever contact ANYONE to say that his shipping estimate was wrong? Can you answer that?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 11:16:38
At this point, it's been over a month since the payment was made. I had no more time. Just wanted to make sure I cleared up your misconceptions. And something could have been done. He could have said that it was his fault and he was going to make it right. Again, you gloss over posts to make your own points. And 2k isn't generous when he cleared more than that. Did he ever contact ANYONE to say that his shipping estimate was wrong? Can you answer that?
He cleared more than 2K, sure, but his inventory is also out.. This sale started with no profit, and he was going to be negative $2000 refund and negative $3-4000 Inventory.. Organization costs aside..
Shipping estimates , exactly how right can we get these estimates on our side, when we don't even know where the majority of the packages went, or however many packages went out..
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 01 June 2016, 13:08:31
But apparently some people are complete morons who refuse to accept the fact that from day one beserkfan made it quite clear that he had absolutely no intention of working with anyone or making the least effort to make things right. Before a single claim was filed. Here's the original post that started this thread as a reminder for those morons.
Yes all true. But someone posting a rant in a stressful situation isn't necessarily how they will feel forever.
I have on occasion been called hopelessly naive though, so there's that. :))
Oh well, could be another month or longer before mysecret santaorder arrives. :rolleyes:
Look, I'm done being all nice about things, because this has eaten up a lot of my valuable time. I have lost sleep over this, and it is not helping my blood pressure either. So yeah, it's time for the Educational Blunt Instruments to come out.
Has ANYONE even received a single SeaMail package? Not the SingPost with tracking numbers - I mean the claimed SEAMAIL packages.
Because we have not recorded a single person on any continent, in any country, having received a single SeaMail pacakge. Not a single one. And unless somebody has some sort of magical calendar that has nothing to do with reality, it has just about been 7 weeks since the first alleged shipment went out. Not one whit of evidence that anything was even shipped SeaMail has ever been presented. If somebody actually HAS received an untracked package shipped by SeaMail, then by all means, speak up.
Otherwise, it is idiotic to believe that your package was even shipped at all at this point. There is no proof whatsoever that anything aside from the handful of SingPost tracked items was ever shipped. No posted receipts, no tracking numbers, nothing. It is pure delusion and if you're going to continue believing it, then I suggest you put some worn out ABS keycaps under the pillow and see what the Tooth Fairy gives you for them.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 01 June 2016, 13:48:39
I've done more updates to the spreadsheet. I hope everyone had a good long weekend. I know tensions are high and surely some time to relax is nice.
The first thing I want to say to everyone is to calm down - there is a lot we can shout and yell at each other, but the important thing is what we end up doing.
So it seems as if we have some confusion on what the directives and incentives are with keeping track of orders.
Goal: To fix the problem of not receiving items. This is the underlying problem. This is the highlighted issue. Rootwyrm isn't the person who really opened up the whole investigation. I did. Because I got something wrong - I reached out to others who were local to see if it was a simple shipping mistake. Upon finding out what was a compounded number of incorrect orders, I took to reaching out to others overseas. That leads us to where we are now.
It was not to slander, defame, call out, target, fraud, or attack a given person. I wanted my stuff that I ordered, confirmed, and paid for. Plain and simple.
The escalation: In a transaction, there is inherit trust between buyer and seller. Even in a sale gone bad, or reversed, there is the understanding that there is an error in communication. There is an acknowledgement of wrong doing, there is an acceptance of the events. There has been nothing of the sort from beserkfan. What we have gotten is deflections, threats, and whining about what was apparently his negligence. Which leads me to the root cause.
Root cause: Negligence. Whether it was intentional to make a profit or not is not important. That is not the problem, nor does it entitle anybody to disregard their responsibilities. Case in point, MANY companies sell goods/services at a loss, willingly. But what they have in common is that they make sure the transaction is completed from start to finished. That is the key communication aspect. But like the saying goes, "judge me not by my words but by my actions." Beserkfan has generally communicated clearly with intentions to sell up until the point of his so-called "shipping". But his actions has been one of negligence in taking no responsibility for his sale or words.
The resolution: Refunds or rectified shipping. I have gone into the investigation hoping that we could solve the problem by having users ship to each other. Maybe it costs us a bit more, maybe it others lose out a bit. That is a given. it is simply not financially viable to have beserkfan redo shipping, that I understand. But since beserkfan has:
1. Not facilitated communication post sales;
2. Not facilitated refunds to standard;
3. Will not rectify incorrect shipments;
4. Has openly stated that he will not take responsibility for those that got more than they deserved (thus others missing out),
It can be concluded that matters will have to be taken by the individuals. This comes in the form of filing complaints and escalating to paypal. I myself has advocated as many people to do this as possible. Not everybody can do so because of Western Union or paypal gifts or moneygram. But those who can, should. If the problem gets rectified, you close the ticket, there is no direct harm. As it is, there is already an open police report in Singapore - a wrong/incomplete bank transaction is means for a police investigation for transaction fraud. Meaning: what Beserkfan did in Singapore is Illegal in Singapore. End of story, intentional or not.
Conclusion: There is an overwhelmingly large amount of evidence of Beserkfan's wrong doing. A single complaint is a singularity, several complaints is a coincidence. A spreadsheet of over $6000 of items either incorrectly shipped, missing, or unconfirmed is malice, intentional or not. By definition that is fraud, and by definition fraud is a scam, and thereby, a scammer.
I've read several times before that maybe I've jumped the gun, made the conclusion too quickly. I want to say that Rootwyrm and I have only started to advocate people filing claims once the spreadsheet had over 120 entries with several hundred dollars of items doublesold. Take that for what you will.
Post by: mind_funeral on Wed, 01 June 2016, 14:43:14
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 14:47:26
tp4tissue, you're making this worse. Please stop crapping the thread. This is between the customers and berserkfan. If people want to file claims, let PayPal (or other money transfer service) decide if the refund is warranted. The fact is items were double sold, incorrect items were shipped, and money was not refunded. End of story.
The double sold issue did happen, but it was unintentional and due to payment timing problems..
Money was not refunded right away, because not all the shipments reached their destination, it was unclear how the refund budget was to be appropriated,
But all posts by Berserk clearly indicate that the right thing was to be done, WHEN POSSIBLE..
He had no intention or motive to scam..
--rootwyrm-- and various others bent the words to suit their paypal defense claim..
At this point, What's done is done, you're right, but you can not LIE about the truth to suit your fancy....
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 14:58:28
--rootwyrm-- and various others bent the words to suit their paypal defense claim..
They had no reason to. All I showed them was that I had not received what I ordered. That was enough.
So why would they do that?
And why are you jumping in on something that you have less than complete knowledge of, and are not involved in? You still haven't answered that. And you seem really vehement to have no stake.
And calling people liars? Aren't you doing exactly what you're accusing us of?
Things that make you go "hmmm..."
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:07:54
--rootwyrm-- and various others bent the words to suit their paypal defense claim..
They had no reason to. All I showed them was that I had not received what I ordered. That was enough.
So why would they do that?
And calling people liars? Aren't you doing exactly what you're accusing us of?
Things that make you go "hmmm..."
That's exactly right.. You show them you didn't get your order.. and that's ENOUGH.
There is no point in going on to attack Berserk's character, and then Fabricate a story about how much money he stole..
Which Rootwyrm was clearly doing..
And by letting him do it, you've essentially accepted his lies as truths.
No one is disputing the negligence on part of Berserkfan , A mistake is very different from a scam..
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:08:44
As far as I'm concerned, he's similar to the individual which started the mess: All talk, zero action. He's not been a part of the whole affair, nor is he affected. Most importantly, however, is that somehow he's gone out of his way to use the most ridiculous style of formatting he can find with different sized fonts and stylised highlights which is a moderate eye-sore... Along with referring to himself in the 3rd person. It's kind of weird. And creepy. But that's a different issue altogether.
Will check in later on in the week, and touch base with the happenings in Singapore.
In summary: His conclusions are personal attacks are made without basis of evidence, and quite frankly, directed at the wrong person.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:10:21
Everything tp4tissue has complained about has been addressed in my post. Ignore him, just get off of GH for the day and do something else.
As far as I'm concerned, he's similar to the individual which started the mess: All talk, zero action. He's not been a part of the whole affair, nor is he affected. Most importantly, however, is that somehow he's gone out of his way to use the most ridiculous style of formatting he can find with different sized fonts and stylised highlights which is a moderate eye-sore... But that's a different issue altogether.
Will check in later on in the week, and touch base with the happenings in Singapore.
You're right... and thanks again for all of your help!
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:15:39
But if any of you decide to lie and falsely accuse another geekhack member of an intentional scam..
Tp4 will defend that person..
This sale was not a scam, it was never a scam.
Berserk was ready to take responsibility for his mistakes, but the Actions of this thread's crew has made that difficult and now impossible..
No, you guys didn't start this problem, but you guys also must accept responsibility for thwarting the ideal solution which was to wait for shipments to complete before filing.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:18:40
You guys can pat yourself on the back all you like, that is fine..
But if any of you decide to lie and falsely accuse another geekhack member of an intentional scam..
Tp4 will defend that person..
Well, defend us. From YOU! Because you're lying and falsely accusing us of having any motive other than getting our money back. So I wait to hear your defense arguments to defend us from you. :))
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:22:41
You guys can pat yourself on the back all you like, that is fine..
But if any of you decide to lie and falsely accuse another geekhack member of an intentional scam..
Tp4 will defend that person..
Well, defend us. From YOU! Because you're lying and falsely accusing us of having any motive other than getting our money back. So I wait to hear your defense arguments to defend us from you. :))
I have said nothing to impede you guys from getting your money back.
That money you have a title to.
You DO NOT have the right to throw insults, to chastise, to belittle, to condemn..
Together many of you have chosen the worst of ways to express your discontent....
Berserkfan has done some-things, but NOT others..
I am speaking on behalf of the Other.. Your lies.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:27:24
You guys can pat yourself on the back all you like, that is fine..
But if any of you decide to lie and falsely accuse another geekhack member of an intentional scam..
Tp4 will defend that person..
Well, defend us. From YOU! Because you're lying and falsely accusing us of having any motive other than getting our money back. So I wait to hear your defense arguments to defend us from you. :))
I have said nothing to impede you guys from getting your money back.
That money you have a title to.
You DO NOT have the right to throw insults, to chastise, to belittle, to condemn..
Together many of you have chosen the worst of ways to express your discontent....
Berserkfan has done some-things, but NOT others..
I am speaking on behalf of the Other.. Your lies.
Still calling me a liar. Tsk. Tsk. First you say that I yelled at him. Then you said that I didn't. Then you said that what I said was truth. Now you say that I'm a liar. Why not just stop, instead of digging your hole for someone else?
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:34:00
Still calling me a liar. Tsk. Tsk. First you say that I yelled at him. Then you said that I didn't. Then you said that what I said was truth. Now you say that I'm a liar. Why not just stop, instead of digging your hole for someone else?
My posts were about the situation in general. If you did not say some of the things, then sections of my comment may not apply to you personally.
Taking them as personal was your prerogative.
That does not alter the malevolent tone and direction of this thread's content thus far..
That direction and inaccurate information is the problem..
Post by: ideus on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:41:59
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:42:21
Still calling me a liar. Tsk. Tsk. First you say that I yelled at him. Then you said that I didn't. Then you said that what I said was truth. Now you say that I'm a liar. Why not just stop, instead of digging your hole for someone else?
My posts were about the situation in general. If you did not say some of the things, then sections of my comment may not apply to you personally.
Taking them as personal was your prerogative.
That does not alter the malevolent tone and direction of this thread's content thus far..
That direction and inaccurate information is the problem..
Maybe you don't understand how articles work, since you refer to yourself in different persons. If you say you lied, when responding to me, then you're talking to me. If you say, and I quote, You DO NOT have the right to throw insults, to chastise, to belittle, to condemn.. when talking to me, then you're saying it to me. You've done both of those. Perhaps you need to rephrase, if you don't want it to be taken that way. Or better yet, stop thread crapping. I've done the same in effect, trying to respond to you. So, for that, I apologize, and I'm done.
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:46:56
Still calling me a liar. Tsk. Tsk. First you say that I yelled at him. Then you said that I didn't. Then you said that what I said was truth. Now you say that I'm a liar. Why not just stop, instead of digging your hole for someone else?
My posts were about the situation in general. If you did not say some of the things, then sections of my comment may not apply to you personally.
Taking them as personal was your prerogative.
That does not alter the malevolent tone and direction of this thread's content thus far..
That direction and inaccurate information is the problem..
Maybe you don't understand how articles work, since you refer to yourself in different persons. If you say you lied, when responding to me, then you're talking to me. If you say, and I quote, You DO NOT have the right to throw insults, to chastise, to belittle, to condemn.. when talking to me, then you're saying it to me. You've done both of those. Perhaps you need to rephrase, if you don't want it to be taken that way. Or better yet, stop thread crapping. I've done the same in effect, trying to respond to you. So, for that, I apologize, and I'm done.
Why are you arguing grammar with me..
I am merely pointing out and making clear of the situation for those involved..
That there is hope of resolution, that this was NOT a scam, and that they can patiently wait for their packages with peace of mind if they have not received it.
You've taken my words as personal insults, again if they do not apply to you personally, move on..
I did not know who you were until today.. But Berserk fan has been around the forum for a long time.. and he has had numerous sales and deals go through fine.. he is NOT a scammer... I am making sure people know that..
That is the purpose of my continued defense..
The crew you're currently rolling with are generating false information, scaring people.
You are indirectly part of the problem..
Post by: ideus on Wed, 01 June 2016, 15:57:09
Still calling me a liar. Tsk. Tsk. First you say that I yelled at him. Then you said that I didn't. Then you said that what I said was truth. Now you say that I'm a liar. Why not just stop, instead of digging your hole for someone else?
My posts were about the situation in general. If you did not say some of the things, then sections of my comment may not apply to you personally.
Taking them as personal was your prerogative.
That does not alter the malevolent tone and direction of this thread's content thus far..
That direction and inaccurate information is the problem..
Maybe you don't understand how articles work, since you refer to yourself in different persons. If you say you lied, when responding to me, then you're talking to me. If you say, and I quote, You DO NOT have the right to throw insults, to chastise, to belittle, to condemn.. when talking to me, then you're saying it to me. You've done both of those. Perhaps you need to rephrase, if you don't want it to be taken that way. Or better yet, stop thread crapping. I've done the same in effect, trying to respond to you. So, for that, I apologize, and I'm done.
Why are you arguing grammar with me..
I am merely pointing out and making clear of the situation for those involved..
That there is hope of resolution, that this was NOT a scam, and that they can patiently wait for their packages with peace of mind if they have not received it.
You've taken my words as personal insults, again if they do not apply to you personally, move on..
I did not know who you were until today.. But Berserk fan has been around the forum for a long time.. and he has had numerous sales and deals go through fine.. he is NOT a scammer... I am making sure people know that..
That is the purpose of my continued defense..
The crew you're currently rolling with are generating false information, scaring people.
You are indirectly part of the problem..
Ivannovich was another guy with good reputation and a very long standing at GH that, at the end, was involved in a huge fraud; therefore, good reputation alone is not enough to support an statement in favor of Berserkfan; also, this thread is about sharing information in look for favorable resolutions for most of the people involved in the problem. If you want to defend the OP open your own thread.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:00:22
Post by: qwack on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:05:28
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:09:56
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:10:56
The "mob" is just people trying to sort out the huge mess that was the result of Berserkfan's carelessness. And playing the obnoxious white knight won't exactly be helpful in this regard.
There is no white knight.. No one is dying from this.
I am merely the divider between truth and lies..
Keeping with the correct information is important, the lies are alarmist and damaging to the integrity of Geekhack..
Berserk made a mistake, that is true, but he is not a liar, and he has presented no misinformation..
The information he has presented were misconstrued.. I've called attention to that..
Post by: qwack on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:16:54
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:33:27
Ivannovich was another guy with good reputation and a very long standing at GH that, at the end, was involved in a huge fraud; therefore, good reputation alone is not enough to support an statement in favor of Berserkfan; also, this thread is about sharing information in look for favorable resolutions for most of the people involved in the problem. If you want to defend the OP open your own thread.
This situation is completely different from Ivan, Ivan bolted with NOTHING delivered..
Berserkfan was PUSHED OUT before he could properly tune and fix the situation.. In the end, He did ship all of the stuff promised, though yes, to the wrong addresses...
My defense for Berserkfan Has to go in this thread..
There are still people waiting for packages.. and if anything, the aim of making sure the correct information is in place is as much for Berserk as those people who may be fearful that they won't get anything at all, and have been intentionally tricked..
That is not the case.. There were mistakes made, but no trick...
Post by: SixtyLife on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:37:46
I think everyone gets your point tp. you're just sounding like a broken record now.
Ivannovich was another guy with good reputation and a very long standing at GH that, at the end, was involved in a huge fraud; therefore, good reputation alone is not enough to support an statement in favor of Berserkfan; also, this thread is about sharing information in look for favorable resolutions for most of the people involved in the problem. If you want to defend the OP open your own thread.
This situation is completely different from Ivan, Ivan bolted with NOTHING delivered..
Berserkfan was PUSHED OUT before he could properly tune and fix the situation.. In the end, He did ship all of the stuff promised, though yes, to the wrong addresses...
My defense for Berserkfan Has to go in this thread..
There are still people waiting for packages.. and if anything, the aim of making sure the correct information is in place is as much for Berserk as those people who may be fearful that they won't get anything at all, and have been intentionally tricked..
That is not the case.. There were mistakes made, but no trick...
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:40:48
I think everyone gets your point tp. you're just sounding like a broken record now.
How I wish that were the case.. but it would seem many people still continue to hold onto their misconceptions about Berserkfan..
It's a good thing I type fast....
Post by: audax989 on Wed, 01 June 2016, 16:50:18
Post by: exitfire401 on Wed, 01 June 2016, 17:29:32
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 01 June 2016, 17:36:42
Tp4 is right. You guys have torn into Gutz alot sooner and alot more than was necessary. Only about 20% of the packages have been delivered, yes, sure he ****ed up. But so did the angry mob. He is already out hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, and He stated that he was prepared to use 2000$ of his OWN money to make this right. no scammer would do this. I have chosen to reserve judgement until I recieve my package, But Gutz is anything but a scammer. Im 300$ into this and I really want to get what I ordered, but if I dont, I would choose to settle it civilly with other members and try to get everyone what they ordered, not start a ****storm. Come on guys, Im 16 and handling this more maturely than many of you. I believe Gutz went into this with the best of intentions and it just ****ed up. He is under a huge amount of stress. Cut him a break and quit rousing the mob.
Going to chime in on this one - people ordered and paid things at different times.
I contacted people locally to first. When things started to look fishy, I reached out around internationally - this happened a week later. Gathering information started early - yes. But no accusations were made until nearly 3 weeks after finding that packages were consistently wrong. No alarm was made when we found out that things were double ordered - even my posts in the old thread can support that, where I insisted on giving Gutz the benefit of the doubt.
The timeline goes further back in pm's than it does in forum posts.
Post by: mike52787 on Wed, 01 June 2016, 17:38:50
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 01 June 2016, 17:57:20
I'm also pretty frustrated with how people around GH feel like the have a right to be all condescending without understanding the issue. I feel like nobody actually reads my posts - previously, I feel like I coherently addressed everything Gutz complained about. Again here, tp4 ignored what I wrote and nitpicked on everyone else.
Before I started to public collect data to try to rectify the problems created, I was in conversation with plenty of other people putting a case together. There is ample evidence and explanations for the train of thoughts that have also been thoroughly explained time and time again in my various updates and posts across 3 threads (two now locked and in the grave yard).
Literally, the only reason that keeps me coming back to GH instead of sitting on reddit is because of this incident. I didn't reach out to DT, pm'ing people on GH, consolidate pm's from reddit, and handling communications on watsapp because I would get my money back - I was screwed the moment Gutz withdrew money from moneygram. I literally have nothing to gain. If I get my packages, great! That nets me 0, because that's what I paid for. If I get my packages, and other people get their packages, I'm likely net negative because I need to ship what I got to others. As I have explained before, I literally have nothing to gain. I am doing this because I have been bored.
So goes it:
Ultimatum, if folks want to ****post and make accusations or twist our intentions, I'll gladly delete everything and someone else can start from scratch. Then at least 38 other people along with roughly $6,000 in essentially fraud-ed goods/services will walk out the door. And yes, by definition, fraud is a scam. Intentional or not, commit fraud is a scam. Stop kidding ourselves.
There's enough stupidity and uninformed (sometimes unintentional) ignorance out there in the world.
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 01 June 2016, 18:15:04
It is a statement of fact that tp4tissue is a known problem user. It is a statement of fact that he was doing this exact style of thread ****ting and ****posting in SmallFry's memorial thread in 2013. Yes, this guy **** on Nathan's thread - all over it. More than a dozen posts as I recall, talking trash about Nathan, and attempting to harass other users and start flamewars. And he rightfully got told that it would not be tolerated in that thread.
The guy is either severely mentally ill, or a severe troll. I don't care which. I've PM'd the mods and I've told them the same thing I'm going to say here: I'm not going to waste my time refuting absolutely false, defamatory, and slanderous statements from someone who should have been banned three years ago and has only made his behavior worse since.
And I'm not going to waste my time helping others only to be **** on by a bunch of randoms because one severely deranged child posts a stack of outright lies. Certainly not when the moderators have chosen to leave those lies posted as though they were facts, and choose to overlook a constant and continuous stream of unacceptable behavior.
His behavior wasn't acceptable in 2013 when SmallFry died, and the fact that he hasn't been banned or his abusive posts removed despite clearly getting worse than he was back then is not acceptable now.
I will continue to stay in touch with Meiosis and Scarpia of course as I work through the resolution on my own transaction. But I will absolutely not volunteer my time, energy, or health to a community that tolerates and endorses behavior like tp4tissue's. And I most certainly will not be associated with it.
If you expect me to create a new spreadsheet or salvage it, think again. Skysophrenic and I are on the same page as we have been from day one. We gave Gutz the benefit of the doubt, we tried to work with him, we urged patience in hope it was a simple mix up that could be corrected, and ultimately we amassed facts and evidence proving that it was wide-scale fraud. Unlike Skysophrenic, I am taking time away from personal projects and interrupting things I would much rather be doing in obviously futile hopes that others would do the right thing and maybe at the end of the day, people would get their stuff. Not just me but everyone.
When we see conduct like this, it means the spreadsheet becomes questionable. Now we have to worry about policing it for children who are going to get their giggles from screwing with it or screwing it up. Now we have to worry about refuting blatant lies and trolling. And it's not worth it, especially with the way others have conducted themselves over the past few hours.
If you have an issue with both of us being prepared to walk away and toss all the evidence, do not clutter the thread with additional crap and do not bother us. Take it up privately with the moderation team. They are the ones who are permitting and essentially endorsing the behavior leading us to this decision, by leaving the abusive and deliberately misleading posts up and declining to take action against the people who posted them.
Post by: ideus on Wed, 01 June 2016, 18:59:49
Again: If you are not involved stay away, if you are, then be constructive.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 01 June 2016, 21:07:14
Ultimatum, if folks want to ****post and make accusations or twist our intentions, I'll gladly delete everything and someone else can start from scratch.
Please don't do that.
Your spreadsheet is the only road map available to whoever might try to put part of the jigsaw puzzle back together during the next couple of months.
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 02 June 2016, 08:01:26
Ultimatum, if folks want to ****post and make accusations or twist our intentions, I'll gladly delete everything and someone else can start from scratch.
Please don't do that.
Your spreadsheet is the only road map available to whoever might try to put part of the jigsaw puzzle back together during the next couple of months.
Then, as I said: take it up with the moderation team who has decided they will permit and essentially endorse the behavior leading us to this decision, by leaving the abusive and deliberately misleading posts up and declining to take action against the people who posted them.
The moderation team is fully aware that we are more than prepared to walk away due to their decisions, and they are fully aware of the problems they have created. All responsibility lays with them at this point.
Post by: gtxorb on Thu, 02 June 2016, 08:48:16
Ivannovich was another guy with good reputation and a very long standing at GH that, at the end, was involved in a huge fraud; therefore, good reputation alone is not enough to support an statement in favor of Berserkfan; also, this thread is about sharing information in look for favorable resolutions for most of the people involved in the problem. If you want to defend the OP open your own thread.
This situation is completely different from Ivan, Ivan bolted with NOTHING delivered..
Berserkfan was PUSHED OUT before he could properly tune and fix the situation.. In the end, He did ship all of the stuff promised, though yes, to the wrong addresses...
My defense for Berserkfan Has to go in this thread..
There are still people waiting for packages.. and if anything, the aim of making sure the correct information is in place is as much for Berserk as those people who may be fearful that they won't get anything at all, and have been intentionally tricked..
That is not the case.. There were mistakes made, but no trick...
Sorry, I'm just one of the consumer, that didn't receive any of my stuff.
Questions for you - tp4tissue:
1.How do you so certain that he shipped all the stuff, but wrong addresses? You Berserk's wife?
2.Yes he post out a fix for $4000, but any one received?
What you post is just subjectively with no evidence at all.right?
But what Rootwyrm or others do, have at least screenshot to support, so DO NOT blame on sufferer's complain / effort.
If you have anything can support what you have said on this post, please send them out. so all of the rest can see it.
If Berserk willing to solve all the things, just refund what he has screw up.
For any of the trade is 1on1 relationship. if the consumer didn't get what they want or the quality is not as good as promised, the seller will be responsible for it.
NO MATTER HOW MUCH HE TOTALLY SEND OUT OR HOW MUCH HE WILL LOSE,
----------------------------------
I can see his active date, but during he is online, NO PM Response at all, even before what you said "HE WAS PUSHED OUT".
i am quite new to keyboard or keycaps, actually only from this year, I am willing to have more experience.
I thought A GHer which has more than 4 years on GH would never cheat at all. But from all my have, I am wrong.
during chat with Berserk I know he has families, girls maybe? If I am him, I would never let my family see this, and stay as far as I can from GH.
Berserk's last active is 06-01, did he stay behind and laughing at us?
Post by: mind_funeral on Thu, 02 June 2016, 11:14:22
Then, as I said: take it up with the moderation team who has decided they will permit and essentially endorse the behavior leading us to this decision, by leaving the abusive and deliberately misleading posts up and declining to take action against the people who posted them.
The moderation team is fully aware that we are more than prepared to walk away due to their decisions, and they are fully aware of the problems they have created. All responsibility lays with them at this point.
The mods muted tp4tissue, but they should take action against berserkfan, too.
Post by: biocalves on Thu, 02 June 2016, 11:28:26
Then, as I said: take it up with the moderation team who has decided they will permit and essentially endorse the behavior leading us to this decision, by leaving the abusive and deliberately misleading posts up and declining to take action against the people who posted them.
The moderation team is fully aware that we are more than prepared to walk away due to their decisions, and they are fully aware of the problems they have created. All responsibility lays with them at this point.
The mods muted tp4tissue, but they should take action against berserkfan, too.
I hope they leave berserkfan's account alone, as I would love for him to speak up here when and if he ever chose to do so.
Post by: user 18 on Thu, 02 June 2016, 12:22:15
Then, as I said: take it up with the moderation team who has decided they will permit and essentially endorse the behavior leading us to this decision, by leaving the abusive and deliberately misleading posts up and declining to take action against the people who posted them.
The moderation team is fully aware that we are more than prepared to walk away due to their decisions, and they are fully aware of the problems they have created. All responsibility lays with them at this point.
The mods muted tp4tissue, but they should take action against berserkfan, too.
I hope they leave berserkfan's account alone, as I would love for him to speak up here when and if he ever chose to do so.
berserkfan is no longer allowed to conduct sales on geekhack as a consequence of the results of this sale.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 02 June 2016, 12:30:11
Ultimatum, if folks want to ****post and make accusations or twist our intentions, I'll gladly delete everything and someone else can start from scratch.
Please don't do that.
Your spreadsheet is the only road map available to whoever might try to put part of the jigsaw puzzle back together during the next couple of months.
And this was the reason that I spoke up- after all of the work they've put into salvaging this thing, I didn't want them to feel totally unappreciated and attacked. But I will agree that I took responding too far. I totally agree with your stance, however, and hope that it stays as a record of what's happened- it was one of the things that pushed me to go ahead and take matters into my own hands- seeing that my item was oversold. I do, also know that there are people that are frankly apprehensive to jump into the whole thing because of the nature of victim blaming in this thread, and not wanting to be a part of that, and that's making the information incomplete. I've advised them to contact Root or Sky directly, but I can see why they wouldn't want to.
Can we make this thread a bit more inviting to those people by refraining from interjecting directives to people how they should act, and instead sticking to just factual information? I think changing the tone would help to make people comfortable to come forth.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sun, 05 June 2016, 05:08:02
now the question is,it's been a while. is there anyone receiving more packages? (i really want my keycaps.... :'( )
FYI, i guess that my packages ships untracked (i'm assuming like that because he hasn't answering my PMs regarding tracking number), so all i can do is pray.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Mon, 06 June 2016, 10:09:37
Instructions on making a claim on paypal - relevant even with GIFT payment.
If you did Goods and services:
1. Make a claim and wait for reply.
2. Reference beserkfan as a seller that has many other claims against his name
3. Provide evidence of what you ordered (your pms with him, make sure you provide evidence of his pp details in it as well, to solidify your claim)
4. If paypal makes you ship your package to him for a refund, ensure that you will be re-reimbursed for your shipping. Also state that others have tried to refund from him and that the address/package was not picked up at his address due to him moving houses.
5. if you are waiting for your package, still open a case. If the package does indeed arrive in the end, then all is well and done and state that you'll close the case.
Remain civil and unprovocative. If you have to, provide quotations from Beserkfan about him not willing to provide refunds (in this thread somewhere). But do not provoke a response. A seller that does not respond within a set amount of time will result in you winning your claim.
IF YOU PAID WITH GIFT:
1. Call paypal up and explain the situation - you made a payment to a seller using the gift option.
2. State that he has many claims against his name. It should be in the system
3. State that he insisted upon receiving payment as a gift - explain that he claimed that "Paypal is making me upgrade to seller account which gets taxed".
4. Ask for a one time exception on even a partial refund. Explain that it was wide-spread fraud on his end. Provide reference other claims/orders if necessary. Do not hang up until there are some consequences. There are enough flags on his account that you should be able to get some reconciliation.
In both cases, provide all the details you can - shipping/no shipping tracking, when you paid, when and what was the last form of communication you had.
I hate to make it seem like I'm brigading folks to target and attack a single person but in reality, it's getting your money back for incorrect G&S. If a company made a mistake, you bet you'd get your money back or a recall of all items.
Bank transfer:
For those that did a bank transfer - bring it up with your bank. State that there was fraud committed - outside of the US, bank transfers are a valid method of payment. There are channels which banks communicate with and if enough flags are raised on his account in Singapore the bank there will also take action. There is already an active investigation in Singapore - additional claims from overseas will solidify the fact that there is wrong doing.
Moneygram and WU:
We're ****ed. Sorry guys. I called in and escalated all the way up to director level last friday. While we Moneygram's sympathies, they have stated clearly in their ToS that they should not be used for buying/selling. Furthermore, even if they wanted to track down the withdrawer of our money, they can't as the transaction was withdrawn in cash.
WU, we're ****ed here too. Sorry guys.
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 06 June 2016, 13:12:59
A little late on this, but I'm pretty sure reddit is just mostly noobies afraid to post over here, not some forum equivalent of Australia where rulebreakers get sentenced to.
(Ripster aside, obviously)
You can say about Reddit what you want, threads like these are why I'm mostly there and not here.
This mythical Reddit place you speak of - I landed there once upon a time by accident.
Some guy had bought a stock Pok3r, slapped some Vortex shinethrough PBTs on it, posted pics and called it his endgame. Several others came in to congratulate him.
I never went back.
Post by: Baddy126 on Mon, 06 June 2016, 13:18:31
A little late on this, but I'm pretty sure reddit is just mostly noobies afraid to post over here, not some forum equivalent of Australia where rulebreakers get sentenced to.
(Ripster aside, obviously)You can say about Reddit what you want, threads like these are why I'm mostly there and not here.
This mythical Reddit place you speak of - I landed there once upon a time by accident.
Some guy had bought a stock Pok3r, slapped some Vortex shinethrough PBTs on it, posted pics and called it his endgame. Several others came in to congratulate him.
I never went back.
So... because someone enjoys their pok3r and might not have extra income to spend hundreds on caps means you have to make fun of them...?
Ok.
Post by: Tyr on Mon, 06 June 2016, 15:28:06
This mythical Reddit place you speak of - I landed there once upon a time by accident.
Some guy had bought a stock Pok3r, slapped some Vortex shinethrough PBTs on it, posted pics and called it his endgame. Several others came in to congratulate him.
I never went back.
Nothing wrong with being positive. Nor do people need to be told what they can and cannot like.
Post by: Tyr on Wed, 08 June 2016, 01:59:23
(http://i.imgur.com/Pumv22D.gif])
Post by: Kibort on Wed, 08 June 2016, 02:14:33
Post by: Tyr on Wed, 08 June 2016, 02:31:11
I'm located in Belgium aswell. Good to know mine will (hopefully) arrive soon aswell. As far as BE customs go after the attack, my HHKB from japan was out of customs in 1 day but some keycaps from NA were held for 2 weeks.
They held my Massdrop Planck for 2 weeks, then sent me a letter to tell them what the contents of the package were + value. So I do and another week and half later I finally get my package and the manifest with contents and cost is pasted on the outside of the friggin box by Massdrop :mad:. Damn customs, man.
Post by: Kibort on Wed, 08 June 2016, 03:23:40
Post by: Tyr on Wed, 08 June 2016, 03:36:04
damn, i got lucky my massdrop realforce didn't even get stopped by customs. How much customs did you have to pay for that plank?
Don't remember exactly, somewhere in the neighborhood of 50eur. I paid that much on my Modern Selectric keycaps as well. Bastards get me nearly every time. Ergodox Infinity slipped through though. I notice Massdrop are re-shipping some things out of Germany now. That might have something to do with it.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 08 June 2016, 12:35:50
Post by: Kibort on Wed, 08 June 2016, 15:09:16
Post by: Tyr on Wed, 08 June 2016, 15:45:02
Yeah i just got an update. My package is being held by Belgian customs aswell.
The race is on.
(http://registromx.net/images/25_bun_mierelli4.jpg)
Post by: Skysophrenic on Thu, 09 June 2016, 11:02:18
Post by: Tyr on Thu, 09 June 2016, 12:11:43
Keep me posted. Come July I'll be making another sheet for redistribution.
Will do.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Thu, 09 June 2016, 23:03:47
what i ordered: bunch of keycaps
Quote
1. Cherry WOB Doubleshot Grab Bags $30
2. Tai Hao sets yellow and red, $16
3. Filco stock keycaps 1 set $5
4. DSA Keycaps - everything for $20 (i see this in your docs. pls don't sold out lol if this are sold out i need to make changes again)
+ a SP bumblebee (i've found this item, just waiting for poog to ship it to me
what i got:
a Cherry G80 - 1950. majority of the keys have no stem and switch for it. the other have cherry MX brown switch. and a few of relegendable keycaps for it, but without its transparent plastic (really gutz????)
well.. is there anyone who ordered this?
*pic later, uploading
(http://i.imgur.com/GH444wJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AzDnbCk.jpg)
*edit: uploaded
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Thu, 09 June 2016, 23:14:05
if ya others really want to go to his place, just give me a shout.
Post by: Floody on Thu, 09 June 2016, 23:17:22
my package arrived. it's wrong item, as expected :-XIf I remember correctly no one picked up any of the ortholinear stuff except me but that isn't mine.
what i ordered: bunch of keycapsQuote1. Cherry WOB Doubleshot Grab Bags $30
2. Tai Hao sets yellow and red, $16
3. Filco stock keycaps 1 set $5
4. DSA Keycaps - everything for $20 (i see this in your docs. pls don't sold out lol if this are sold out i need to make changes again)
+ a SP bumblebee (i've found this item, just waiting for poog to ship it to me
what i got:
a Cherry G80 - 1950. majority of the keys have no stem and switch for it. the other have cherry MX brown switch. and a few of relegendable keycaps for it, but without its transparent plastic (really gutz????)
well.. is there anyone who ordered this?
*pic later, uploadingShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GH444wJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AzDnbCk.jpg)
*edit: uploaded
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Fri, 10 June 2016, 00:37:52
if you were right, so this is one of those randomly sent things then...my package arrived. it's wrong item, as expected :-XIf I remember correctly no one picked up any of the ortholinear stuff except me but that isn't mine.
what i ordered: bunch of keycapsQuote1. Cherry WOB Doubleshot Grab Bags $30
2. Tai Hao sets yellow and red, $16
3. Filco stock keycaps 1 set $5
4. DSA Keycaps - everything for $20 (i see this in your docs. pls don't sold out lol if this are sold out i need to make changes again)
+ a SP bumblebee (i've found this item, just waiting for poog to ship it to me
what i got:
a Cherry G80 - 1950. majority of the keys have no stem and switch for it. the other have cherry MX brown switch. and a few of relegendable keycaps for it, but without its transparent plastic (really gutz????)
well.. is there anyone who ordered this?
*pic later, uploadingShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GH444wJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AzDnbCk.jpg)
*edit: uploaded
Post by: kekman on Fri, 10 June 2016, 04:55:26
Post by: kekman on Fri, 10 June 2016, 05:18:51
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 10 June 2016, 10:45:15
- Seller or Paypal is legally responsible for full cost of return shipping. Period. Zero exceptions.
- If none of the items paid for are received, the unordered items received have absolutely zero dollar value when considering refund or chargeback.
- In the event of a 'short order' (missing items), regardless of what is received, shipping costs would be reversed without question. Paying for two keyboards and only receiving one makes it unquestionably a 'short order.'
- Based on evidence, they are handling the dispute as a fraud case.
- They are extremely annoyed at the fact that Paypal withheld their knowledge that the address they demanded I ship to was non-existent or invalid.
As of yesterday, there is now a 30 day window for someone to provide a prepaid shipping label at their expense if they want it back, and issue a full refund. Or they can issue a full refund and I keep the items. They don't get to keep a single penny either way. And if they don't do it voluntarily, Paypal will be eating a very, very nasty fraud-coded chargeback. At which point their choice will be to eat the loss and pursue the seller, or to pay $250+ for merchant arbitration.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 10 June 2016, 10:49:01
my package arrived. it's wrong item, as expected :-XIf I remember correctly no one picked up any of the ortholinear stuff except me but that isn't mine.
what i ordered: bunch of keycapsQuote1. Cherry WOB Doubleshot Grab Bags $30
2. Tai Hao sets yellow and red, $16
3. Filco stock keycaps 1 set $5
4. DSA Keycaps - everything for $20 (i see this in your docs. pls don't sold out lol if this are sold out i need to make changes again)
+ a SP bumblebee (i've found this item, just waiting for poog to ship it to me
what i got:
a Cherry G80 - 1950. majority of the keys have no stem and switch for it. the other have cherry MX brown switch. and a few of relegendable keycaps for it, but without its transparent plastic (really gutz????)
well.. is there anyone who ordered this?
*pic later, uploadingShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/GH444wJ.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/AzDnbCk.jpg)
*edit: uploaded
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 10 June 2016, 10:49:47
update: i think what happened was that instead of doing in a 10kg box like i thought he would, he shipped the xt portable and keycaps separately, so i am still waiting for one last board. will upload pics for documentation later
Thanks for the update - keep us posted.
Post by: Floody on Fri, 10 June 2016, 12:54:54
What ortholinear stuff did you pick up? I got a bunch of things back in Singapore, I can confirm it after the 25th when my family flies in.
I got both Cherry RC128BM's. One was sip modded and plate modded without switches. The other was stock.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 10 June 2016, 15:39:31
What ortholinear stuff did you pick up? I got a bunch of things back in Singapore, I can confirm it after the 25th when my family flies in.
I got both Cherry RC128BM's. One was sip modded and plate modded without switches. The other was stock.
Okay, I don't have those. I've got a person pm'ing me about potentially having ordered other ortholinear stuff but hasn't provided me any screenshots just yet - just wanted to make sure.
Post by: Floody on Fri, 10 June 2016, 15:43:07
Post by: Skysophrenic on Fri, 10 June 2016, 17:19:19
I'll consider that a good sign. Hopefully they can provide screenshots
I think July will be a good cut off date - by then most things would have had over 6 weeks to ship. Anything else that hasn't turned up probably wont. Furthermore, if in the cases where it's held by customs, hopefully your country is civilised enough to send you a message. Come July I will be uploading a new matrix and try to get folks connected with each other for potential shipping.
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 10 June 2016, 17:30:02
I'll consider that a good sign. Hopefully they can provide screenshots
I think July will be a good cut off date - by then most things would have had over 6 weeks to ship. Anything else that hasn't turned up probably wont. Furthermore, if in the cases where it's held by customs, hopefully your country is civilised enough to send you a message. Come July I will be uploading a new matrix and try to get folks connected with each other for potential shipping.
Consider that, because of the fact that they told us to ship, the return shipping might not have occurred by then. They're still trying to deliver mine, and say they're trying to contact me, but I've received no contact at either the number I gave, nor the e-mail that I gave.
Post by: kekman on Fri, 10 June 2016, 22:26:34
https://sli.mg/a/CPBcx0
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sat, 11 June 2016, 01:08:02
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 12 June 2016, 00:40:13
Although if packages have started arriving in NSW and if they were all posted around the same time then maybe soon.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Sun, 12 June 2016, 01:56:53
album for proof
https://sli.mg/a/CPBcx0
Thank you!
Post by: audax989 on Sun, 12 June 2016, 03:49:19
Still nothing here.
Although if packages have started arriving in NSW and if they were all posted around the same time then maybe soon.
Where is NSW?
Post by: kekman on Sun, 12 June 2016, 03:53:49
Still nothing here.
Although if packages have started arriving in NSW and if they were all posted around the same time then maybe soon.
Where is NSW?
the best part of australia
east coast, near the south
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 12 June 2016, 07:00:30
Where is NSW?
east coast, near the south
[/quote]
Damn! If they aren't even there yet, it will be 2018 before they get to the SE US.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Sun, 12 June 2016, 12:24:30
Post by: 3K on Sun, 12 June 2016, 13:07:33
I'm still missing a teensied IBM keypad, a teensy, solder tin, green dyed Buckling Spring caps and Green on White Buckling spring caps...
Just in case someone stumbled upon anything of this. :c
Post by: Fire Brand on Sun, 12 June 2016, 13:11:12
Post by: mind_funeral on Sun, 12 June 2016, 13:41:55
Where is NSW?
New South Wales, Australia
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sun, 12 June 2016, 22:32:30
Nothing of the ordered stuff was received.
I'm still missing a teensied IBM keypad, a teensy, solder tin, green dyed Buckling Spring caps and Green on White Buckling spring caps...
Just in case someone stumbled upon anything of this. :c
we're on the same boat :'(
Post by: demik on Sun, 12 June 2016, 22:38:16
Post by: romevi on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:20:43
Tp got muted??
Again?
Post by: mind_funeral on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:33:04
Tp got muted??
For good reason.
Post by: kekman on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:40:01
Post by: demik on Mon, 13 June 2016, 00:36:13
what happened this time?
tp got muted apparently
Post by: kekman on Mon, 13 June 2016, 01:01:59
what happened this time?
tp got muted apparently
no way
Post by: Kibort on Mon, 13 June 2016, 01:17:45
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 13 June 2016, 01:56:45
Nothing to do with the case, but just so you know Seamail is expected to take 1-3 months in my use of such a shipping option just to give you all some sort of perspective on how long it might take to arrive.
http://www.singpost.com/send-documentparcel/transit-time.html
Australia is 5 to 7 weeks.
Post by: Tyr on Mon, 13 June 2016, 01:57:30
What I ordered:
Code: [Select]
F18 IBM 6112883 SKCC Green Alps T-mount (Japanese) Free
F37 Model M13 Trackpoint black. Keycaps mint! $80
P09 Filco MJ1 TKL kit. $30
Cyan on White thick PBT dyesubs $20
Filco TKL ANSI set $5
Teensy 2.0 no pins $14
1 Costar Stabilizers set $10 per set.What I got:
- single IBM 5150 keyboard
(http://i.imgur.com/i2ZEOdM.jpg)
I frankly would've been happy with anything of equivalent value, but I paid $250 for a single keyboard and to add insult to injury I didn't even get the 10kg shipping box I paid $100 for :'(
Anybody order a single one of these ?
Post by: WNovizar on Mon, 13 June 2016, 07:04:27
Post by: Tyr on Mon, 13 June 2016, 07:08:08
Sorry I had to post this in a hurry, but can someone post me the google docs or sheet of these purchases? I think I got someone else's package arrived.
here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit#gid=1625914025). What did you get ?
Post by: WNovizar on Mon, 13 June 2016, 07:25:05
Sorry I had to post this in a hurry, but can someone post me the google docs or sheet of these purchases? I think I got someone else's package arrived.
here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit#gid=1625914025). What did you get ?
Thanks. but I can't found anyone who ordered these packages. Here is what I have:
1. Deck Keyboard with keycaps
2. Deko Keyboard
3. MX8100 case and pcb
4. G80-3000 case and pcb
5. Tipro keyboards
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 13 June 2016, 07:34:31
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Mon, 13 June 2016, 08:17:53
it seems that the thing i received earlier are Geniekid's . he's the only one who ordered that 1950 from that thread..
genie, if you're reading this, YGPM.
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 13 June 2016, 09:10:21
So finally got my box.
Crap on a crutch, I can't even match that one to the sheet. It is definitly not any of the other XTs he listed or that were sold. F01-F03 were portable, two were Teensied with USB. F04-F07 were all teensied as well. The only one not teensied was the F08 "project and parts" board with a listed value of $0.
Definitely call your credit card company or bank immediately. This isn't the first thing that's shown up at someone's door that was NOT listed in the items for sale or wasn't actually sold.
Post by: geniekid on Mon, 13 June 2016, 09:41:11
after doing some research on the spreadsheet, i just found something interesting.
it seems that the thing i received earlier are Geniekid's . he's the only one who ordered that 1950 from that thread..
genie, if you're reading this, YGPM.
Thanks for the heads-up, Dymloslouire! I will note that Berserkfan had multiple G80-1950s and some were listed as free towards the end of his sale, so it may not necessarily be mine. I also ordered WEY keycaps from him but I doubt I will ever see those. Full disclosure: I have already received a partial refund from Paypal after escalating a claim (partial because I did receive one of the three items I bought, even though it was supposed to be free). If I ever see the other two items I will contact Paypal about giving him back some of the money.
Post by: Tyr on Mon, 13 June 2016, 10:17:26
Crap on a crutch, I can't even match that one to the sheet. It is definitly not any of the other XTs he listed or that were sold. F01-F03 were portable, two were Teensied with USB. F04-F07 were all teensied as well. The only one not teensied was the F08 "project and parts" board with a listed value of $0.
Completely random. I figured I'd at least get the IBM 6112883 SKCC Green Alps he was giving away as a freeby, but nope. Still can't figure out how one can ship out random stuff like that.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Mon, 13 June 2016, 12:18:34
Like I've mentioned, I talked to some of the upper management in moneygram, and it's simply impossible to track the money (since it was a cash withdrawl) after the fact. For privacy and confidentiality, ID's are not kept, only transaction ID's within their systems.
I can't help with anybody in WU since they wouldn't talk to me to set up a potential discussion with someone.
Post by: demik on Mon, 13 June 2016, 12:22:18
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 13 June 2016, 15:23:25
Sorry I had to post this in a hurry, but can someone post me the google docs or sheet of these purchases? I think I got someone else's package arrived.
here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit#gid=1625914025). What did you get ?
Thanks. but I can't found anyone who ordered these packages. Here is what I have:
1. Deck Keyboard with keycaps
2. Deko Keyboard
3. MX8100 case and pcb
4. G80-3000 case and pcb
5. Tipro keyboards
Can you please post photos of the Tipros, Dekos, and Decks? There were multiples of these listed, so we'll need to try and ID which.
You are correct in that none of these were sold except for the "TIPRO MID" 8x8 which was promised to Darkshado as a freebie, and the Deck Legend project board which was sold to Skysophrenic. I was the only one who expressed an interest in the Deck Frost, but ultimately passed.
To date, the highest value item that's actually showed up is the KBC Pure. So either people aren't reporting what they got, or the actual valuable items never shipped. If you're in the US and haven't been contacted directly by customs and you haven't received your order? You aren't getting anything. In all likelihood, most of the 'good' keyboards never shipped at all. There is absolutely zero evidence for more than a dozen packages he claimed to have shipped SeaMail. And he kept changing his tune from 3-5 weeks plus customs to 5-13 weeks plus customs - a common scammer tactic to try and avoid chargebacks from people foolish enough to believe them.
If you don't have your stuff and you didn't get anything, the overwhelming evidence says you aren't getting anything.
Quote from: Tyr
Completely random. I figured I'd at least get the IBM 6112883 SKCC Green Alps he was giving away as a freeby, but nope. Still can't figure out how one can ship out random stuff like that.
What troubles me most is that this doesn't match up with any of the keyboards he had listed. And he had priced most of the XT boards at $60 or more. I have a bad feeling if I test Scarpia's board, I'm going to find out that it's junk.
Edit: Wups. Misread. We have two MX8100's (yzkoo) with no idea if they work, the XT Tyr got, and the KBC Pure I have. Those are the only keyboards seen to date.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 13 June 2016, 15:48:06
If you're in the US and haven't been contacted directly by customs and you haven't received your order?
I am in the US and I have never been contacted directly by customs in my life.
Do they send you a post card or something?
Post by: chuckdee on Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:17:42
If you're in the US and haven't been contacted directly by customs and you haven't received your order?
I am in the US and I have never been contacted directly by customs in my life.
Do they send you a post card or something?
I wasn't contacted by customs for what I received either. I think you're contacted by customs only if there is a duty due.
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 13 June 2016, 16:41:23
If you're in the US and haven't been contacted directly by customs and you haven't received your order?
I am in the US and I have never been contacted directly by customs in my life.
Do they send you a post card or something?
That's actually a really excellent question that nobody's brought up yet, which I can answer. My former neighbor was ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement,) specifically customs inspections and investigation for enforcement.
Generally, ICE (now part of DHS) will not contact you unless customs fees are owed or there is a discrepancy with the paperwork or similar issue. For example, if the customs form said it was "scrap metal" with a value of $50 and they found it was gold bars? Uh, yeah. You're gonna have DHS at your door investigating customs fraud. Like, literally coming to your house.
For "other" errors, they usually rely on the information provided by the shipper in order to contact the intended recipient. So that means if the shipper provided your phone number, they'll try to call you first. If they can't reach you by phone, they'll usually send a postcard or letter to the address on the package when available. This letter will tell you in very general terms what the issue is - either improper declaration, duty owed, or package damaged (rare.) Depending on the issue, they may tell you that they are seizing the merchandise (most common with counterfeited items) or to make your money order payable to US CBP. (NO CHECKS. Cash, money order, cashier's check, or credit card ONLY.)
Customs fee fraud isn't unheard of. If you get a letter saying you owe customs fees, it will come on official letterhead from a licensed importation agent or US Customs and Border Patrol. In most cases, you can go directly to the location where the items are held, pay the fees, and they will be immediately released to you.
For example, the declaration said "$500 worth of neat stuff" and it was shipped via DHL. DHL would then call you to let you know they had your package and duties were owed. They'd also send a letter on company letterhead, telling you the package number, what you owed, and why. You would then either pay DHL the owed duties online and they would complete shipment; or you would go to the local DHL office, pay the duties, and take the item home (if it was there - in many cases, it may be held at the port of entry.)
For US citizens, you are responsible for all owed duty charges and fees - not the shipper. You can also be held legally liable for certain civil and criminal charges. Also note that what it's actually worth is irrelevant; a customs declaration is a legal document swearing to the value of goods exchanged. If it says $500 and only contains $5 of junk, you owe the $500 duty.
If there is nothing wrong with your package as far as CBP is concerned, they will not contact you at any time in the process. The majority of small packages like these will clear customs extremely quickly - usually less than 5 business days. They don't have the time, money, or manpower to inspect 50,000 individual boxes in a bulk container. They're looking for red flags in the electronically filed forms, missing seals, known bad actors, and other issues they can spot at a glance.
This of course does not rule out individual ****weeds within CBP who hold the process up and insist on checking everything, or the possibility of your item being held up because somebody else broke the law. In those cases, you will not be contacted in most cases unless there is an excessive delay (more than 4 weeks.)
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 14 June 2016, 05:43:39
By the note that was included, looks like it was supposed to go to someone on DT called Broadmonkey in Denmark. Can't get much further off the mark, berserkfan.
I ordered and paid for: a set of black on yellow PBT Ducky keycaps.
I received: a programmable numeric keypad (with Cherry MX brown switches) and a small assortment of relegendable keycaps, presumably to suit the numpad.
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Post by: Kibort on Tue, 14 June 2016, 13:30:13
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 14 June 2016, 13:33:38
Post by: Tyr on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:02:39
just got a letter from BE customs i have to tell them the value of the package lol. Too bad i have no idea what it is worth since i've seen the keycaps i've bought pop up in other peoples posts.
Just tell them scrap iron keyboards and you only paid for the shipping. My package was labelled "old keyboard" and marked at a $10 value, probably yours will be similar.
Post by: Kibort on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:12:16
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:24:26
I have received a package. Not what I was expecting, but then what was I really expecting, the way this has turned out?
By the note that was included, looks like it was supposed to go to someone on DT called Broadmonkey in Denmark. Can't get much further off the mark, berserkfan.
I ordered and paid for: a set of black on yellow PBT Ducky keycaps.
I received: a programmable numeric keypad (with Cherry MX brown switches) and a small assortment of relegendable keycaps, presumably to suit the numpad.
Oh for ****'s sake. At this point, I'd presume any package coming in has a value of $0.
Because that's either the Qtronix numpad valued at the grand sum of $0 or one of the others that was listed as "freebies." Meaning another junk item sent out and still no sign of any of the valuable keyboards.
Short of feats of delusion bordering on the "involuntary commitment to a psychiatric facility" level, it is impossible to believe that ANY of the 'high dollar' items shipped at all. The money was taken and garbage was thrown in boxes at random with the full intent to defraud from day one.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:30:24
it is impossible to believe that ANY of the 'high dollar' items shipped at all.
My guess is that people receiving high-dollar-value items are just sitting tight and assuming that the Easter Bunny smiled on them this time.
Post by: Tyr on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:30:48
Post by: Broadmonkey on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:36:35
I have received a package. Not what I was expecting, but then what was I really expecting, the way this has turned out?
By the note that was included, looks like it was supposed to go to someone on DT called Broadmonkey in Denmark. Can't get much further off the mark, berserkfan.
I ordered and paid for: a set of black on yellow PBT Ducky keycaps.
I received: a programmable numeric keypad (with Cherry MX brown switches) and a small assortment of relegendable keycaps, presumably to suit the numpad.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
This is weird!
I sent you a PM.
Thanks rootwyrm for the heads-up!
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:38:37
The "last seen" date on Berserkfan's profile page keeps updating, so I assume he's still around but lurking not posting. I wish if there is an explanation he would join the conversation.
He already gave an explanation, and then promptly deleted it when he got called out on it. Those "explanations" are why he has been banned from selling on GeekHack.
Quote from: beserkfan
Hello Everyone who bought stuff from me
Sorry for the delay. I am working very long hours now. Looks like I cannot retire peacefully from geekhack as planned.
A good many mistakes were made in the shipping out rush. Wife had to send over 80 packages within a few days and she’s not familiar with the descriptions. (And quite fed up too, so she just stuffed packages with whatever seemed right or approximately the same value.)
At least 1 box went out totally wrong because I earmarked a box for that person’s stuff in March. He changed his orders several times so I procrastinated with packing, took out his granite keycaps, white and green switches, and eventually forgot that box hadn’t been packed. This guy had a big order, and he got 0% of his order. Instead he got only the keyboard kit which had occupied the box all along. He got very low value. Now I have no idea how to send him what he ordered.
I do not know what was sent/ mis-sent to any particular person, and am currently unable to trace where the items he/she purchased were sent. It was a great rush to deal with so many complex and changing orders and I was not the one doing it but unfortunate family members. At least 5 people were still changing their orders on May 3; 3 people hadn’t paid and E3E outright refused to pay last minute after trolling me for a week. Several people threw me their addresses but never paid shipping nor responded to reminders.
There were a number of double-sold items. These tended to be cheap items that I didn’t take heed of, had dubious buyers inquiring about them and taking too long to pay, or which had complications like paypal refunds screwing up my records. The most expensive items like scarface keycaps, 87 key zinc blanks and Model M SSK were never double sold. For the double sold items, wife was supposed to just stuff buyers with unsold things because so many things were marked pending but actually unsold thanks to the usual sleazy dibs callers never coming through with payment.
A number of missent items had the correct buyer labelled. I believe the most constructive solution is to contact the intended recipient and send him/her the stuff. Several people I talked to on PM refused this solution, insisting that I refund them fully + pay for the shipping before they would even contemplate sending the legit buyer his property.
Let’s be realistic about this.
I am now very busy and work 7 days a week. I did not expect to be so ultra busy or I would not have planned my sale at this time. I sold things in a great rush and was under pressure to clear my house as planned. Until now I still have uncollected payments!
I do not have money to refund everyone fully. Nor do I have the desire to. I sold many things at literally pennies on the dollar. I gave away many things. I had a terrible selling experience in April. I wish to just walk away from it all.
Wife is angry at me. I deserve the punishment. And I have long vowed to family that I will stay away from geekhack until house is fixed. With my current skills, house won’t be fixed anytime soon.
My paypal account is currently depleted because I had to pull money asap to pay for shipping. There is no money left. See this negative amount? You can squeeze blood from a stone?
After getting a bunch of unconstructive demands from irate buyers, I’m going to be my usual GutzGrouch self. I’ll tell you all the unvarnished truth.
Most of the costs involved shipping. That gives me little room to refund people for wrongly shipped things.
I do not live hand to mouth, and I certainly can put some money back into paypal account to refund dissatisfied people. But I can’t give everyone a full refund. Simple as that. And we won’t know what everyone got until all sea mail packages arrive. Obviously the people who got the least relative to what they were supposed to get, should get priority.
My original goal to clean out my house has been attained. All remaining keyboard items total less than 1 cubic meter. When I have time I can still go through my remaining stuff to see if there was unsent stuff that people paid for. Some personal stuff and lots of never-sold stuff got sent anyway so some people will get things they did not pay for. Lots of keycaps were used as filler in big boxes. This is especially in the case of my massdrop granite keycaps, which looked very ugly, old and shabby to my wife so she thought they had no value.
Laugh all you want. I am keeping no granites for myself. I even put out a review criticizing them, and directed most prospective buyers to the same review because I didn’t want dissatisfied buyers.
Am currently budgeting $2k USD for various refunds. Money is not going to go out until I get a better picture of what has been sent and who got what. Anyone who got more value than what he paid for, will not be refunded. Not to be an SOB about it but it is just impossible to refund everyone. I’d rather just quit geekhack/ deskthority completely if refunding exceeds my limited budget.
I have good reason to suspect that some people got more, and are either keeping quiet, or else are claiming they got less since it is easier to join the chorus of Gutz-haters.
Some geekhackers are already showing their less attractive side here. 1 guy filed complaint without trying to contact me.
Turns out he received someone’s very substantial shipment. It was wrong, but it wasn’t low value stuff like a keyboard kit. It was almost certainly more than what he paid.
Then he claimed to paypal that I sent him damaged goods. (And admitted in the same complaint that they weren’t damaged, just someone else’s stuff.)
Then tried to sell the expensive keycaps sent to him by mistake, to someone else. That someone else told me. This guy had hidden the fact that wife sent him valuable keycaps.
Those who think they are going to get money from filing complaints, sorry. You guys all got boxes of keyboard related items, some totally new or never used. If I choose to escalate your complaint to a Return, you are going to have to pay a lot of money to ship stuff back to Singapore before you get refunded. We have shipping invoices that say 5kg and 10kg of ‘keyboards’ and ‘keyboard parts’, so sending me a postcard with a tracking number is going to get you hit with a buyer fraud charge.
There is absolutely no question that Gutz had no intention of actually making good on anything from the very first. This is why we have been telling people to immediately file disputes including with their credit card issues, and police reports when they believe it appropriate. Because Gutz is the one who not only attempted to blame his wife for everything, but also explicitly stated that he intended to perpetuate the fraud.
Post by: nugglets on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:40:11
I have received a package. Not what I was expecting, but then what was I really expecting, the way this has turned out?
By the note that was included, looks like it was supposed to go to someone on DT called Broadmonkey in Denmark. Can't get much further off the mark, berserkfan.
I ordered and paid for: a set of black on yellow PBT Ducky keycaps.
I received: a programmable numeric keypad (with Cherry MX brown switches) and a small assortment of relegendable keycaps, presumably to suit the numpad.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The interesting thing about this is the paypal refund on the note. That tells me the package was sent after everything went to ****.
Post by: Kibort on Tue, 14 June 2016, 14:53:42
Post by: nugglets on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:01:01
I have to show the customs proof of my payment. Which was 150 euro. The tax in BE is 32 euro standard + 21% of what was paid. I'm just going to leave the package at the customs. Don't feel like paying an extra 63 euro for probably some cheap keycaps and diodes. I'll take this as a 150 euro lesson to be more careful when buying online next time. Pce out.
I mean, I would never suggest breaking the law but... Hypothetically, someone could create a PayPal invoice for a few bucks on an alt account and pay it to themselves.
Post by: Kibort on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:05:21
Post by: 3K on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:07:06
I have to show the customs proof of my payment. Which was 150 euro. The tax in BE is 32 euro standard + 21% of what was paid. I'm just going to leave the package at the customs. Don't feel like paying an extra 63 euro for probably some cheap keycaps and diodes. I'll take this as a 150 euro lesson to be more careful when buying online next time. Pce out.
Why don't you tell them you do not have a proof of payment? They should offer to open the package, and after that you could still decide to let them send it back. At least that's how it works in my country.
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:08:31
the receipt probably needs to have the date and location where it was paid to
It most likely doesn't. And if the form was not filled out, you should declare it as a $0 value item which you only paid shipping for. Especially since that's what it is - a zero dollar item you only paid shipping for.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:15:14
I'm just going to leave the package at the customs.
There were quite a number of very nice items for sale. You might have some of the elusive "good stuff"
Post by: Broadmonkey on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:24:13
I have received a package. Not what I was expecting, but then what was I really expecting, the way this has turned out?
By the note that was included, looks like it was supposed to go to someone on DT called Broadmonkey in Denmark. Can't get much further off the mark, berserkfan.
I ordered and paid for: a set of black on yellow PBT Ducky keycaps.
I received: a programmable numeric keypad (with Cherry MX brown switches) and a small assortment of relegendable keycaps, presumably to suit the numpad.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The interesting thing about this is the paypal refund on the note. That tells me the package was sent after everything went to ****.
I should probably clear up my interaction with berserkfan.
Back in February, I bought a DSA Granite numpad keycaps from him. The set was damaged when I got it, because the package had been too tight around the keycaps (PBT does not like that at all, it shatters!).
Berserkfan had a spare set he would send me. I agreed I could wait until he had sold more of his items, so he could ship it in one go.
Later I also bought a Goldtouch numpad from him, which he refunded when he refunded everyone.
I told him I still wanted to buy it, he sent me the new details on payment, but I never got around to pay it before the deadline (the day he told me he would ship everything). I didn't pay because fees this time was much higher, so I had to mull it over... and then I totally forgot about it untill about ten days after the deadline.
I asked him about the status, and if he had shipped everything. Hoping he had either shipped my replacement Granite numpad set, or that I could still pay for the numpad and have both shipped to me.
I guess he did ship it to me, although nothing of what I can see Rowdy got, is what I had initially paid for.
I had nothing but good communication with him, and I still think he is an honest man... Something just went completely fubar for him I guess.
Post by: Tyr on Tue, 14 June 2016, 15:24:58
I have to show the customs proof of my payment.
I don't understand this **** they pull. If it is a person-to-person deal then what is proof ? There's no invoice. You could have paid by Western Union or other method that is not traceable. Even a bank statement does not really prove anything.
BTW import tax is 15eur plus VAT I believe.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Tue, 14 June 2016, 16:15:33
"I had nothing but good communication with him, and I still think he is an honest man... "
Anecdotal evidence is a horrible way to measure a situation. A single patch of unburned grass in a forest ravaged by fire doesn't make the fire starter innocent.
I have received a package. Not what I was expecting, but then what was I really expecting, the way this has turned out?
By the note that was included, looks like it was supposed to go to someone on DT called Broadmonkey in Denmark. Can't get much further off the mark, berserkfan.
I ordered and paid for: a set of black on yellow PBT Ducky keycaps.
I received: a programmable numeric keypad (with Cherry MX brown switches) and a small assortment of relegendable keycaps, presumably to suit the numpad.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
The interesting thing about this is the paypal refund on the note. That tells me the package was sent after everything went to ****.
I should probably clear up my interaction with berserkfan.
Back in February, I bought a DSA Granite numpad keycaps from him. The set was damaged when I got it, because the package had been too tight around the keycaps (PBT does not like that at all, it shatters!).
Berserkfan had a spare set he would send me. I agreed I could wait until he had sold more of his items, so he could ship it in one go.
Later I also bought a Goldtouch numpad from him, which he refunded when he refunded everyone.
I told him I still wanted to buy it, he sent me the new details on payment, but I never got around to pay it before the deadline (the day he told me he would ship everything). I didn't pay because fees this time was much higher, so I had to mull it over... and then I totally forgot about it untill about ten days after the deadline.
I asked him about the status, and if he had shipped everything. Hoping he had either shipped my replacement Granite numpad set, or that I could still pay for the numpad and have both shipped to me.
I guess he did ship it to me, although nothing of what I can see Rowdy got, is what I had initially paid for.
I had nothing but good communication with him, and I still think he is an honest man... Something just went completely fubar for him I guess.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Tue, 14 June 2016, 16:28:01
I have to show the customs proof of my payment. Which was 150 euro. The tax in BE is 32 euro standard + 21% of what was paid. I'm just going to leave the package at the customs. Don't feel like paying an extra 63 euro for probably some cheap keycaps and diodes. I'll take this as a 150 euro lesson to be more careful when buying online next time. Pce out.
Are you sure you'd do this? I can't stop you but I'd urge for you to at least check the weight of the box. Our information is very imperfect and incomplete, most of it out of our control. We've been spending so much time trying to track down where things are, and now that we know you have a box you're unwilling to pick it up because it costs more money? The one opportunity to help add another piece to the puzzle and willingly turn away?
Way to insult everyone else who's actually decided to help out in their own way.
Post by: Kibort on Tue, 14 June 2016, 16:44:26
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 14 June 2016, 16:49:05
Post by: Skysophrenic on Tue, 14 June 2016, 17:13:15
Can you find out the weight of the package? Your package, at most, should be around 1kg. If it is significantly more than that would indicate a keyboard. At the very least, i urge you to please check that. As you've said, you're one small piece of the puzzle, so maybe it's not significant for you. And you could be right. You are probably right. I'll grant you that indeed, you make a point.
But there's a chance - and I'm not even asking for an uneducated chance. I believe that anything higher than 1kg would warrant the extra expense. I think that would be a fair compromise - at the end of the day at customs, you can always reject the shipment, right? Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one. If it's light, and small, then I more than understand your position and fully agree with your judgment.
My apologies if it offends you but do you really think my data will be this significant for you? I paid shipping for a small package. The package will have small stuff in it. The previous posts have shown that small stuff will most likely be rubbish and the keycaps i paid for have been received by other people. What are you expecting to find in my package that will change your view on this situation? I won't find what i paid for so being able to add one correct order to you data sheet is not going happen. I don't have a large package so getting a valuable item is most likely not going to happen. I already lost 150 euro i don't feel like losing another 60 just to lay another piece of your 200 piece puzzle that has 100 pieces missing and will never be found again. We won't even be able to make half of the puzzle so me not laying my one piece for the price of 63 euro is more than reasonable imo.
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 14 June 2016, 17:24:59
Just food for thought.
Post by: Broadmonkey on Tue, 14 June 2016, 17:34:00
Have... you seen the past 9 pages?
"I had nothing but good communication with him, and I still think he is an honest man... "
Anecdotal evidence is a horrible way to measure a situation. A single patch of unburned grass in a forest ravaged by fire doesn't make the fire starter innocent.
Well, a burned forest doesn't tell if the fire was intentional or if **** just went down.
I haven't followed the whole situation, as I just concluded that everything went fubar for him.
Handling such a large amount of orders and items can be a real mess and organisational nightmare. He bit over way more than he could chew, and as thus I believe he ****ed it up.
Quite possibly he unknowingly sold stuff more than once, mixed up orders or even lost or fused some. Hell, some of the stuff might even have been lost in storage, transport and what not.
So I think he completely lost the grib on it and said "**** it! I have no Idea how to fix this! just ship whatever might fit the overall description of the order."
If his wife was really involved or not, doesn't really change anything, I think the "**** it" part was still involved either way.
I am not saying it's okay what he has done, I am simply not surprised it all went to wrong... Would have been quite the achievement if he didn't **** it up actually.
Post by: Tyr on Tue, 14 June 2016, 17:52:18
I already lost 150 euro i don't feel like losing another 60 just to lay another piece of your 200 piece puzzle that has 100 pieces missing and will never be found again. We won't even be able to make half of the puzzle so me not laying my one piece for the price of 63 euro is more than reasonable imo.
You don't have to pay VAT on the part that is shipping cost. Also I thought the import duty is 15 eur. So let's say you pay VAT on 100, would make 36eur. As someone said, maybe you can get a description of the package from the customs people. Explain that there may have been a mix-up ?
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 14 June 2016, 21:50:00
I'm not holding out much hope for what I ordered - I know at least one other person bought the same set :rolleyes:
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 14 June 2016, 21:54:07
What are we doing about getting packages to the rightful owners?
I'm not holding out much hope for what I ordered - I know at least one other person bought the same set :rolleyes:
I'll consider that a good sign. Hopefully they can provide screenshots
I think July will be a good cut off date - by then most things would have had over 6 weeks to ship. Anything else that hasn't turned up probably wont. Furthermore, if in the cases where it's held by customs, hopefully your country is civilised enough to send you a message. Come July I will be uploading a new matrix and try to get folks connected with each other for potential shipping.
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 14 June 2016, 22:05:22
What are we doing about getting packages to the rightful owners?
I'm not holding out much hope for what I ordered - I know at least one other person bought the same set :rolleyes:I'll consider that a good sign. Hopefully they can provide screenshots
I think July will be a good cut off date - by then most things would have had over 6 weeks to ship. Anything else that hasn't turned up probably wont. Furthermore, if in the cases where it's held by customs, hopefully your country is civilised enough to send you a message. Come July I will be uploading a new matrix and try to get folks connected with each other for potential shipping.
Thanks :)
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 14 June 2016, 22:09:02
What are we doing about getting packages to the rightful owners?
I'm not holding out much hope for what I ordered - I know at least one other person bought the same set :rolleyes:
That's between the recipient and the person who paid for it. It's outside the scope of your transaction with Gutz, and it's outside the scope of GH. Some of us were hopeful that folks would be honest, and constructively work together to help as many people as possible get what they paid for. Yes, there would have been yet more costs because of having to ship things around, but folks also should have all gotten a shipping refund at minimum. But since it's painfully obvious there's no possible way even half the items paid for shipped - and no evidence they ever existed at this point - a lot of folks probably weren't getting anything of value anyway.
And pretty much any hope of people being decent is long gone. Technically if someone is selling stuff you paid for, it might be possible to charge them with receipt of stolen property. (Certainly wouldn't be unprecedented.) But it's pretty clear that a lot of people only came by to point, laugh, and stir up ****. And a fair chunk of the others are either just walking away and screw everyone else, or hoping they get a high dollar item they can immediately turn around and sell.
Post by: Darkshado on Tue, 14 June 2016, 22:26:54
But since it's painfully obvious there's no possible way even half the items paid for shipped - and no evidence they ever existed at this point - a lot of folks probably weren't getting anything of value anyway.
My opinion is that the jury is still out on that for a little longer. Gotta recheck the dates and shipping times, but since the very beginning, I haven't really been expecting anything before at least next week.
Concerning the existence of the items, the ownership albums were quite complete and most pictures had handwritten notes in them.
"My" cutoff date before really considering this a loss is mid to late July. (It's not as though I have much recourse anyway since payment was made by Moneygram.)
In the meantime, please report any sightings of an ISO-modded Model F AT to me.
Post by: biocalves on Tue, 14 June 2016, 22:30:55
But since it's painfully obvious there's no possible way even half the items paid for shipped - and no evidence they ever existed at this point - a lot of folks probably weren't getting anything of value anyway.
My opinion is that the jury is still out on that for a little longer. Gotta recheck the dates and shipping times, but since the very beginning, I haven't really been expecting anything before at least next week.
Concerning the existence of the items, the ownership albums were quite complete and most pictures had handwritten notes in them.
"My" cutoff date before really considering this a loss is mid to late July. (It's not as though I have much recourse anyway since payment was made by Moneygram.)
In the meantime, please report any sightings of an ISO-modded Model F AT to me.
Maybe I'm just naive, but I have to agree here as I still think it's a bit too early to say that MOST of the people that were involved are now planning to screw each other over.
My last communication with Berserkfan was early May when he had told me everything had not shipped yet, and considering the shipping timeline I'm just now expecting my package to arrive starting this week as it's the 6 week mark for me.
Hopefully we'll see a lot more reports in the next couple of weeks and we can start sorting and finishing up the list.
Post by: codywanks on Wed, 15 June 2016, 04:24:09
The interesting thing about this is the paypal refund on the note. That tells me the package was sent after everything went to ****.
You are misunderstanding the note.
The PayPal refund he's talking about is when PP limited his account early on and he decided to refund everyone.
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 15 June 2016, 05:52:12
What are we doing about getting packages to the rightful owners?
I'm not holding out much hope for what I ordered - I know at least one other person bought the same set :rolleyes:
That's between the recipient and the person who paid for it. It's outside the scope of your transaction with Gutz, and it's outside the scope of GH. Some of us were hopeful that folks would be honest, and constructively work together to help as many people as possible get what they paid for. Yes, there would have been yet more costs because of having to ship things around, but folks also should have all gotten a shipping refund at minimum. But since it's painfully obvious there's no possible way even half the items paid for shipped - and no evidence they ever existed at this point - a lot of folks probably weren't getting anything of value anyway.
And pretty much any hope of people being decent is long gone. Technically if someone is selling stuff you paid for, it might be possible to charge them with receipt of stolen property. (Certainly wouldn't be unprecedented.) But it's pretty clear that a lot of people only came by to point, laugh, and stir up ****. And a fair chunk of the others are either just walking away and screw everyone else, or hoping they get a high dollar item they can immediately turn around and sell.
There's nothing straight-forward about most of these transactions.
The keycap set I bought Berserkfan apparently sold to someone else. Or did he have two sets? No idea - I don't think anyone has reported receiving it yet. I'd still quite like to have it if it's available.
The numpad I ended up receiving was ear-marked for Broadmonkey originally, but he got a refund from Berserkfan, but still wanted to buy it. There is a note in the box I received about checking for payment from Broadmonkey again - but did Berserkfan sell this numpad to someone else after Broadmonkey was first refunded?
From the above comment I gathered that everyone was going to record what they ordered and what they received by a certain date, and then work out who has whose order, and try to send all the orders off to the correct recipient.
As has been suggested before, some people might have got something "better" than they paid for, and are possibly keeping quiet about it, which is a shame.
Post by: alh84001 on Wed, 15 June 2016, 06:21:58
What I got is:
- F22 - IBM model M5-2 without keycaps - claimed by ponnx
- F25 - IBM model M 1386304, it misses most of the keycaps as only numpad and nav cluster has keycaps
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 15 June 2016, 08:15:40
Berserk/Gutz was a compulsive buyer who kept multiple projects going, so I would not be at all surprised if there were multiples of quite a few of those things.
If people were thoughtful about keeping the tally up to date regarding what was ordered and what was received, it would be extremely helpful as a "community service" even if it did not get any particular item of yours re-routed properly. And, in particular, it might be gratifying to see when things had actually made it to their destinations, maybe change that font to bright bold blue or something.
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 15 June 2016, 09:41:20
If packages are just now making the east coast of Australia I think that any cutoff before mid-late-July is probably premature.
Berserk/Gutz was a compulsive buyer who kept multiple projects going, so I would not be at all surprised if there were multiples of quite a few of those things.
If people were thoughtful about keeping the tally up to date regarding what was ordered and what was received, it would be extremely helpful as a "community service" even if it did not get any particular item of yours re-routed properly. And, in particular, it might be gratifying to see when things had actually made it to their destinations, maybe change that font to bright bold blue or something.
They're keeping track of this in the spreadsheet, aren't they? That's how I found out that my Granite had been oversold.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 15 June 2016, 09:56:40
If packages are just now making the east coast of Australia I think that any cutoff before mid-late-July is probably premature.
Berserk/Gutz was a compulsive buyer who kept multiple projects going, so I would not be at all surprised if there were multiples of quite a few of those things.
If people were thoughtful about keeping the tally up to date regarding what was ordered and what was received, it would be extremely helpful as a "community service" even if it did not get any particular item of yours re-routed properly. And, in particular, it might be gratifying to see when things had actually made it to their destinations, maybe change that font to bright bold blue or something.
They're keeping track of this in the spreadsheet, aren't they? That's how I found out that my Granite had been oversold.
We've been trying - but not everyone has come forward, and I'm still missing proof from some people so they have not been added in. But so far 90% of who I reached out to have been helpful , for that I'm thankful for.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 15 June 2016, 09:59:17
I hate to sound like a broken record but as a general message, I hope that we could be honest. I can't stop you from screwing over other people. But I really would urge everyone to give it their best effort to make an attempt to reach out to me about stuff you get. Likewise, I understand it cost more money sometimes to help others or get through customs. I encourage you guys that if you get a customs note, at least go and ask for the weight of the box, and notify the authorities that you may have been a victim of fraud as reported by other people from the same seller.
We have had a few more keyboards show up. it may very well be the fact that additional keyboards are in boxes that are going to show up in customs because of the weight. At the very least please check the weight of the packages - not many are going to miss and make a big deal about missing a small light box of keycap. But a heavier box means a more substantial package potentially containing boards or an aggregate of accessories, and thus likely leading to us finding more of what we are missing.
TLDR:
1. Matching users to each other via OKcupid
2. Please help us out by telling us things -we rely on you for information.
3. Don't dismiss your packages. Heavy package good, light package not so important. Use your judgement, at least physically go see and inform customs/shipping about potentially being a victim of fraud
Post by: chuckdee on Wed, 15 June 2016, 10:31:21
1. Matching users to each other via OKcupid
Was that just to see if anyone was reading?
Post by: Tyr on Wed, 15 June 2016, 12:16:23
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 15 June 2016, 15:31:22
If packages are just now making the east coast of Australia I think that any cutoff before mid-late-July is probably premature.
Berserk/Gutz was a compulsive buyer who kept multiple projects going, so I would not be at all surprised if there were multiples of quite a few of those things.
If people were thoughtful about keeping the tally up to date regarding what was ordered and what was received, it would be extremely helpful as a "community service" even if it did not get any particular item of yours re-routed properly. And, in particular, it might be gratifying to see when things had actually made it to their destinations, maybe change that font to bright bold blue or something.
Very late shipped packages are only just now reaching there. To get a package from Sydney to Perth can easily take 5 days by itself. Further, per SingPost, nobody in Europe should have gotten their package before Australia. See here. (http://www.singpost.com/send-documentparcel/transit-time.html)
It was claimed in the original thread that final shipments were made on May 3rd. Today would be 6 weeks after the ALLEGEDLY FINAL shipment date. SingPost packages from the May 3rd shipment arrived well before the end of may. The bulk of items were shipped prior to April 29th according to Gutz's previous statements and claims. The sale was first posted in January. This means that people should be counting from WHEN THEY PAID. The end of June is a full 9 weeks from the last package shipment and more than 20 weeks from the first shipments.
Post by: Khers on Thu, 16 June 2016, 08:04:37
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 16 June 2016, 08:43:51
I got my package today. Have been rather curious to see what I'd receive. This is what was inside the package:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TbzpAto.jpg)
From top-left to bottom-right, you're looking at: IBM M122 case with a note that says alh84001, IBM AT cable with a note that mysteriously has three user names on it: idollar, Wodan and 3K, IBM XT lacking a spacebar with a plate (as well as parts of the case) (badly) painted off-white, IBM 3178 terminal keyboard, some kind of wrist rest and a bunch of model F flippers and some barrels that have been painted the same kind of off-white as the plate in the XT.
What I ordered was: One IBM 5251 Bigfoot keyboard, one set of premium WoB Cherry MX keycaps and one Orihalcon SDL to USB cable. The XT is rather close to the Bigfoot I'd ordered as I originally wasn't asking for a Bigfoot, instead my initial enquiry was for a cheap F to use as a spares keyboard for my FSSK build. Berserk didn't quite get the other stuff correct.
Honestly I don't know what to do at this point, besides asking the people who's names appear in my package if they want their stuff. The issue with that is that shipping large things outside of Sweden is the opposite of cheap and I'm already $140 out of pocket for stuff that didn't show up and I'm not overly keen on torching even more.
Oh look, more broken junk - except this proves that the descriptions were ALSO fraudulent.
The bottom left XT board was ordered by alh84001 - it's F05. Described as a Model F XT, teensied, white painted plate, spacebar mod, and original carriage. Do you see a spacebar mod? Nope. Plate's painted at least. But I'm guessing there isn't a Teensy in it.
The right side board is probably F26, also alh84001's order. Allegedly a Model F "Unsaver" left stock. Holy ****, someone's two items landed in the same box? That's a first.
Of course, it's missing more than half the items alh84001 ordered.
I have no idea what the 3K/idollar/Wodan tag is from, because neither idollar or Wodan told us what they ordered. But if I had to guess, it was supposed to be on a Model F 50 key. Gutz allegedly had 4 of those (3 internal Teensy, 1 external Teensy) but we have confirmed he sold at least 5. If it was from the F 50's, that would mean he sold 4 keyboards 7 times.
Post by: Khers on Thu, 16 June 2016, 09:18:57
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 16 June 2016, 10:09:45
I've been in contact with both Wodan (nothing in the package is his) and alh84001 (almost everything in the package is his).
I opened the keyboard up to see whether it would contain a Teensy (there's a label on the back which says it does). It doesn't. There are just four leads running from the controller pin out to the outside of the case. Also, opening it up, I realized that the right foot is bent and broken. The spacebar is only absent, not modded from what I can tell (maybe Gutz has bent the stab wire a bit to decrease the actuation force, but I can't test that).
The 3178 arrived in a bag as if it was NIB or the like. However, the case has multiple scratch marks and the surface texture has been lost at the corners.
Sigh. Yeah. So that's just outright, explicit, 100% pure fraud through and through. Nobody is going to Teensy that board then accidentally leave it out. Which means the Teensy had to have been deliberately removed before sale. I'm betting the cable there goes to the Teensy that was yanked out. I don't see any claims that the 3178 was anything other than "stock" though, but it was described as good condition.
So much for this just being everything being shipped wrong. Clearly the intent was to defraud people by selling as much as possible, then keeping them on the hook long enough to transfer the funds away, knowing full well nobody would be receiving anything even close to what they paid for. And how many people have actually gotten refunds from beserkfan after shipping items back to him? I'm gonna go ahead and assume it's zero, because not one person has reported being refunded by Gutz at all - only Paypal Buyer Protection.
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 16 June 2016, 10:26:23
This is actually most of my second package, and I already posted that my first package was all wrong. I'm kind of curious now what will arrive in the second package that is on its way to me and will arrive and in a couple of days.
Post by: demik on Thu, 16 June 2016, 11:15:35
Post by: 3K on Thu, 16 June 2016, 15:39:27
I got my package today. Have been rather curious to see what I'd receive. This is what was inside the package:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TbzpAto.jpg)
From top-left to bottom-right, you're looking at: IBM M122 case with a note that says alh84001, IBM AT cable with a note that mysteriously has three user names on it: idollar, Wodan and 3K, IBM XT lacking a spacebar with a plate (as well as parts of the case) (badly) painted off-white, IBM 3178 terminal keyboard, some kind of wrist rest and a bunch of model F flippers and some barrels that have been painted the same kind of off-white as the plate in the XT.
What I ordered was: One IBM 5251 Bigfoot keyboard, one set of premium WoB Cherry MX keycaps and one Orihalcon SDL to USB cable. The XT is rather close to the Bigfoot I'd ordered as I originally wasn't asking for a Bigfoot, instead my initial enquiry was for a cheap F to use as a spares keyboard for my FSSK build. Berserk didn't quite get the other stuff correct.
Honestly I don't know what to do at this point, besides asking the people who's names appear in my package if they want their stuff. The issue with that is that shipping large things outside of Sweden is the opposite of cheap and I'm already $140 out of pocket for stuff that didn't show up and I'm not overly keen on torching even more.
As I already explained the tag could be from the wristrest, which I ordered. I don't know about shown keyboards though.
Post by: 122obsessed on Thu, 16 June 2016, 23:23:52
I got my package today. Have been rather curious to see what I'd receive. This is what was inside the package:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/TbzpAto.jpg)
From top-left to bottom-right, you're looking at: IBM M122 case with a note that says alh84001, IBM AT cable with a note that mysteriously has three user names on it: idollar, Wodan and 3K, IBM XT lacking a spacebar with a plate (as well as parts of the case) (badly) painted off-white, IBM 3178 terminal keyboard, some kind of wrist rest and a bunch of model F flippers and some barrels that have been painted the same kind of off-white as the plate in the XT.
What I ordered was: One IBM 5251 Bigfoot keyboard, one set of premium WoB Cherry MX keycaps and one Orihalcon SDL to USB cable. The XT is rather close to the Bigfoot I'd ordered as I originally wasn't asking for a Bigfoot, instead my initial enquiry was for a cheap F to use as a spares keyboard for my FSSK build. Berserk didn't quite get the other stuff correct.
Honestly I don't know what to do at this point, besides asking the people who's names appear in my package if they want their stuff. The issue with that is that shipping large things outside of Sweden is the opposite of cheap and I'm already $140 out of pocket for stuff that didn't show up and I'm not overly keen on torching even more.
This is strange, I also ordered the Unsaver. I guessing maybe it was double ordered? Either way I'm updating the spreadsheet with what I ordered.
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 17 June 2016, 00:07:57
Post by: 122obsessed on Fri, 17 June 2016, 00:20:55
Post by: mind_funeral on Fri, 17 June 2016, 12:03:09
Post by: chuckdee on Fri, 17 June 2016, 12:06:44
Anyone get packages in the US yet?
Large packages, or any packages? If the latter, then yes.
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 17 June 2016, 15:00:02
Anyone get packages in the US yet?
The only packages we have any evidence of ACTUALLY shipping to the US are the ones sent SingPost with tracking, and all of those can be assumed to have arrived.
There is no actual proof that any large packages were shipped via SeaMail to the US, and the last date for being "in window" for them would be June 30th.
Post by: mind_funeral on Sat, 18 June 2016, 10:43:16
Post by: fohat.digs on Sat, 18 June 2016, 11:10:39
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 18 June 2016, 12:42:32
Post by: shrubkeys on Sat, 18 June 2016, 13:17:01
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 18 June 2016, 22:50:54
...but is SeaMail all untracked?
There is an option to track it with some carriers, but it varies. However, no proof that anything was actually mailed SeaMail was ever posted. The only actual receipts ever seen are for SingPost with tracking. The only evidence we have any went out is the small number that have arrived. And I reiterate:
The last date any items were shipped out was May 3, 2016. Earlier orders were shipped earlier. Carrier stated windows (http://www.singpost.com/send-documentparcel/transit-time.html) are considered authoritative - this means that the absolute maximum time for shipments to the US is 10 weeks. After 10 weeks, unless you got a notice from customs, the package is officially lost. Period.
Carriers can be held financially liable for lost packages even if you don't insure the package, so they DO NOT want a lost package claim. EVER. But those claims have to come from the shipper, not the recipient. You can report it as the recipient, but they'll only try to track it down or try to call the shipper. (Yes, it's entirely different from damaged in transit.) However, if they investigate a lost package and say they have no record of any package going to that address? Well, enough said there.
Contact SingPost DIRECTLY via email here! (http://www.singpost.com/enquiry-form.html) Select "Speedpost - Standard" and then "Speedpost Economy - Outgoing International" for the product.
Post by: nocturalowl on Sun, 19 June 2016, 00:41:16
Seems I got people order and my order are ahipped to other member. To whom I can report this? I already have pm a member who happened to have his order shipped to M and offer to ship it to him.
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 21 June 2016, 12:40:31
Here is just the list of confirmed double-sold items and how many times they were sold:
- 2x KBC Poker X - still no sign of this one
- 2x KBT Race 75% - still no sign of this one
- 2x Corsair K95 SIP Mod "Old Glory Theme" - still no sign of this keyboard
- 2x Orihalcon SDL to USB Cable - still no sign of a single one of these
- 3x Filco MJ1 fullsize, stock clears with new PBT doubleshot keycaps - still no sign of this board
- 2x IBM Model M13 - STILL no sign
- 3x IBM Model M13 WOB Caps - nocturnalowl received the only set we've found yet.
- 3x Filco SA Profile Keycap Set - still no sign of these either
- 2x IBM Bigfoot, Stock (F27) - possibly found? If so, it's nothing like the description.
- 2x Ducky Thick PBT Blue and Gray DK9008G2 Pro Style - found these, in beat up original box
- 5x Massdrop Granite Core Set UKC2 - 3 listed, 5 sold, ZERO have shown up to date.
- 2x Ducky Black on Yellow PBT Dye Sub - newp, MIA
- 3x F06 Model F XT Teensied, no other mods - we found the board, it has a broken spacebar and the Teensy was deliberately removed. So, nothing like described.
- 2x F09 Model M 122 RJC, ANSI modded - this one hasn't been located
- 2x KC36 Buckling Spring Green on White - haven't found these yet
Post by: YJL on Tue, 21 June 2016, 12:50:48
Quote
C08. KBT Pure, unlubed 78g clears, blue theme aluminum casing and cable, SIP modded RGB LEDs w extra translucent keycaps, $100
Thick PBT colored grab bag $10 for 80
Tai Hao sets red and black $8 x2 = $16
Teensy 2.0 no pins $14
I received 2 teensys tho.
@nocturalowl
I received your PM and seems like I may have your cherry WOB sets. I don't really know which bags are the ones you ordered tho and will be overseas until August. If you are willing to wait, I am willing to ship it to you at cost. I'm from Singapore so expect shipping prices to be somewhere along the lines of what you paid beserkfan. Anyway I believe we will start allocating shipping and what not around July when most items are expected to have reached their destinations aye?
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 21 June 2016, 13:13:07
Hi, seems like the items I ordered haven't been reflected in the excel. I've already sent PMs to both sky and rootwrym long ago. If I'm lacking anything please let me know.QuoteC08. KBT Pure, unlubed 78g clears, blue theme aluminum casing and cable, SIP modded RGB LEDs w extra translucent keycaps, $100
Thick PBT colored grab bag $10 for 80
Tai Hao sets red and black $8 x2 = $16
Teensy 2.0 no pins $14
I received 2 teensys tho.
@nocturalowl
I received your PM and seems like I may have your cherry WOB sets. I don't really know which bags are the ones you ordered tho and will be overseas until August. If you are willing to wait, I am willing to ship it to you at cost. I'm from Singapore so expect shipping prices to be somewhere along the lines of what you paid beserkfan. Anyway I believe we will start allocating shipping and what not around July when most items are expected to have reached their destinations aye?
Nope, I just checked. You're in there. Check the 'Edits, Comments here' tab first and foremost. If folks aren't in there, feel free to add yourself and your items, one per line. Note that we aren't moving anyone to confirmed unless we have actual proof that they did order and pay for items. There are too many dishonest people out there. Again: we're not looking for personal information, just confirmation that people ordered the items from beserkfan, they were promised the items by beserkfan, and they paid for the items.
YJL, I added your stuff when you posted it here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78531.msg2171163#msg2171163). Since you PM'd the proof to Skysophrenic, he's the one who has to mark it as confirmed.
Post by: YJL on Tue, 21 June 2016, 13:16:53
Post by: nocturalowl on Tue, 21 June 2016, 15:23:19
Hi, seems like the items I ordered haven't been reflected in the excel. I've already sent PMs to both sky and rootwrym long ago. If I'm lacking anything please let me know.@YJLQuoteC08. KBT Pure, unlubed 78g clears, blue theme aluminum casing and cable, SIP modded RGB LEDs w extra translucent keycaps, $100
Thick PBT colored grab bag $10 for 80
Tai Hao sets red and black $8 x2 = $16
Teensy 2.0 no pins $14
I received 2 teensys tho.
@nocturalowl
I received your PM and seems like I may have your cherry WOB sets. I don't really know which bags are the ones you ordered tho and will be overseas until August. If you are willing to wait, I am willing to ship it to you at cost. I'm from Singapore so expect shipping prices to be somewhere along the lines of what you paid beserkfan. Anyway I believe we will start allocating shipping and what not around July when most items are expected to have reached their destinations aye?
Thank you for your confirmation, the wait are no worry to me. Maybe I contact you again via pm regarding my set and the shipment.
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 21 June 2016, 15:28:01
- 5x Massdrop Granite Core Set UKC2 - 3 listed, 5 sold, ZERO have shown up to date.
As a note, if these show up, then preference should be given to gtxorb (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=54260).
Post by: nocturalowl on Wed, 22 June 2016, 07:33:09
(http://i.imgur.com/ki1ngKG.jpg)
Whoops I forgot. The Grassvalley board is the only item that I ordered I have send the proof of my transaction to roowyrm. Other item in the photo are not mine feel free to contact me if some of those are belong to you.
Post by: 3K on Wed, 22 June 2016, 08:35:29
Hi, as mentioned in pm by rootwyrm. I post the item I received from berserkfan in here. I willing to ship this to anyone who ordered it. But pls cover the shipping cost yourself ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ki1ngKG.jpg)
Whoops I forgot. The Grassvalley board is the only item that I ordered I have send the proof of my transaction to roowyrm. Other item in the photo are not mine feel free to contact me if some of those are belong to you.
Ooh I ordered one of these IBM keypads! Could you list what is in the other bags?
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 22 June 2016, 08:59:02
I'm a bit behind on the updates. I've been looking around and there maybe a way for you folks that paid with moneygram/WU or whatever other money transfer service.
Your bank may offer fraud protection, in which if you explain what you did and how you did it, they may be able to help you out on a one-time basis. I have been communicating with my bank, Citibank, and they're looking into being able to refund me what I paid. Granted, it's on a case-case basis, but banks should have a team of people willing to work with you if you are honest. Simply tell them what happened, your take away and if there is anything they can help you with.
Your mileage may vary.
===
It is almost July. I am reverting my decisions - come Mid July I will be pairing up/matching up/connecting people/swiping right on the behalf of you guys so you can work out potential shipping/meet ups/favors to get your stuff. Once posted, I will cease to mediate who gets what, that's for you guys to decide. And of course... none of my stuff has shown up ;Q_Q
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 22 June 2016, 09:09:36
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 22 June 2016, 09:18:48
It is almost July. I am reverting my decisions - come Mid July I will be pairing up/matching up/connecting people/swiping right on the behalf of you guys so you can work out potential shipping/meet ups/favors to get your stuff. Once posted, I will cease to mediate who gets what, that's for you guys to decide.
Unfortunately, I simply do not have the bandwidth to do much more than I already have at this point. A large part of that bandwidth right now is going to actually identifying the items received, collecting information about their condition and components, and comparing that to the original listings - and watching other markets for them. But the fact that even when the items show up they are massively different from the sale description strengthens claims for refunds and fraud.
So far, more than half the items are significantly not as described. For example, we have boards sold as being Teensied where the promised Teensy has been removed. Boards sold as complete arriving missing caps and cables. Items sold as 'like new' in terrible condition and items sold as 'working' actually being non-functional. Even if everyone had received the correct items, there would be dozens of Paypal disputes.
At this point, Paypal is apparently refunding many disputes involving beserkfan immediately.
And of course... none of my stuff has shown up ;Q_Q
Which makes two of us. At this point it is increasingly likely that many items either simply never existed, or were never shipped.
Post by: nocturalowl on Wed, 22 June 2016, 09:27:50
That photo are all item that I receive from berserk that just empty box below grassvalleyHi, as mentioned in pm by rootwyrm. I post the item I received from berserkfan in here. I willing to ship this to anyone who ordered it. But pls cover the shipping cost yourself ;)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ki1ngKG.jpg)
Whoops I forgot. The Grassvalley board is the only item that I ordered I have send the proof of my transaction to roowyrm. Other item in the photo are not mine feel free to contact me if some of those are belong to you.
Ooh I ordered one of these IBM keypads! Could you list what is in the other bags?
Post by: Floody on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:00:16
Hi, as mentioned in pm by rootwyrm. I post the item I received from berserkfan in here. I willing to ship this to anyone who ordered it. But pls cover the shipping cost yourself ;)
Whoops I forgot. The Grassvalley board is the only item that I ordered I have send the proof of my transaction to roowyrm. Other item in the photo are not mine feel free to contact me if some of those are belong to you.
I believe those ortholinear boards went unclaimed so they may be throw ins.
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:14:51
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ki1ngKG.jpg)
I need a hand identifying what we have here. I'm out of my depth on some of it.
- IBM Model F 50 - supposed to have internal Teensy controller
- IBM Model F 50 - supposed to have internal Teensy controller
- P03 Cherry G80-11801?? - I'm not sure on this one.
- Unknown Cherry PCB??
- Unknown Cherry PCB??
- B02 Deko Keyboard - I presume this is the one marked VPE187?
- Green Valley keyboard - both of these were described as BNIB or in original box. Clearly it is not.
Post by: nocturalowl on Wed, 22 June 2016, 10:19:21
It's not Model F. I can confirm it is a model M I seen the sticker in the back. Maybe tomorrow I take the pict. And the last is grass Valley mx black. Suppose to be only pcb. But arrived to me only missing the keycap. And that grass Valley is the only right item that shipped to me :'(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ki1ngKG.jpg)
I need a hand identifying what we have here. I'm out of my depth on some of it.
- IBM Model F 50 - supposed to have internal Teensy controller
- IBM Model F 50 - supposed to have internal Teensy controller
- P03 Cherry G80-11801?? - I'm not sure on this one.
- Unknown Cherry PCB??
- Unknown Cherry PCB??
- B02 Deko Keyboard - I presume this is the one marked VPE187?
- Green Valley keyboard - both of these were described as BNIB or in original box. Clearly it is not.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 22 June 2016, 11:47:36
It's not Model F. I can confirm it is a model M I seen the sticker in the back.
IBM did occasionally put "Model M" labels on keyboards that were actually Model Fs - it is easy to tell by whether there is a one-piece plastic barrel plate (=M) or whether there is a metal front plate with individual barrels inserted through it (=F).
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 22 June 2016, 12:03:16
It's not Model F. I can confirm it is a model M I seen the sticker in the back. Maybe tomorrow I take the pict. And the last is grass Valley mx black. Suppose to be only pcb. But arrived to me only missing the keycap. And that grass Valley is the only right item that shipped to me :'(Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ki1ngKG.jpg)
I need a hand identifying what we have here. I'm out of my depth on some of it.
- IBM Model F 50 - supposed to have internal Teensy controller
- IBM Model F 50 - supposed to have internal Teensy controller
- P03 Cherry G80-11801?? - I'm not sure on this one.
- Unknown Cherry PCB??
- Unknown Cherry PCB??
- B02 Deko Keyboard - I presume this is the one marked VPE187?
- Green Valley keyboard - both of these were described as BNIB or in original box. Clearly it is not.
That's what they were listed as, and as we already know, the listings were not fully accurate and a fair number were not at all truthful. I counted the keys and those are definitely F28, F29, F30, or F31. Which were listed as "Model F 50 keys" with all of them explicitly stated to be Teensied (3 internal, 1 external.) Seriously, I have no idea what beserkfan was on.
Sorry about the typo there - Green should have read Grass. Freudian slip I suppose.
Obviously the one with the missing trackball assembly is the G80-11801 but I thought that the one he listed was black. (This may be a failure of my memory.)
The two unknown PCBs could be nearly anything. He was giving away a bunch of project junk, but he was also selling several project "kits." I don't show anyone as having ordered them though.
Post by: Karandach on Thu, 23 June 2016, 05:43:50
I also ordered a model F50 :eek:
I'm in the last phase to Paypal refund. Everything should be good.
Still no trace of IBM model M13 ?
Post by: Almost on Thu, 23 June 2016, 07:05:31
I just got a nicely packed IBM Model F XT from a 5155 Portable Computer (PN-6450300). It came with no keycaps, cable or Teensy as they're "shipped seperatly to meet weight req's". Which means I have a useless lump of good looking metal. I think this was one of the free items as I cant see anyone in desperate need for a yellowed non-working box of springs. (how are we even meant to find keycaps for this!?)
(http://i.imgur.com/WYTynqq.jpg)
More
(http://i.imgur.com/AtKNS3b.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bGCunUd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bGCunUd.jpg)
Just a heads up if anyone ordered the 5155's Model F keyboard or has the cable/keycaps/teensy that it was supposed to come with. On the front of the package it said my name and GH name, BUT on the customs form it said "Non-working keyboard for hobbyist". There's no hobbyist on DT (?) and I dont know how to search names on here :-[
(http://i.imgur.com/UFgJh4c.jpg)
(unless he just meant "for a hobbyist", to make it seem more likely to pass as a gift)
This is, of course, not what I ordered. Far from it, I'd like it to be a Silver/Chrome rapped Filco MJT2 ...but hey, I didnt have to pay import duties on this.
Post by: alh84001 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 07:10:42
Also, quick update - my second package arrived to customs today, and if it doesn't get held up I should have it early next week.
Post by: kekman on Thu, 23 June 2016, 07:48:35
Hey y'all;
I just got a nicely packed IBM Model F XT from a 5155 Portable Computer (PN-6450300). It came with no keycaps, cable or Teensy as they're "shipped seperatly to meet weight req's". Which means I have a useless lump of good looking metal. I think this was one of the free items as I cant see anyone in desperate need for a yellowed non-working box of springs. (how are we even meant to find keycaps for this!?)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WYTynqq.jpg)MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/AtKNS3b.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/bGCunUd.jpg)
Just a heads up if anyone ordered the 5155's Model F keyboard or has the cable/keycaps/teensy that it was supposed to come with. On the front of the package it said my name and GH name, BUT on the customs form it said "Non-working keyboard for hobbyist". There's no hobbyist on DT (?) and I dont know how to search names on here :-[Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UFgJh4c.jpg)
(unless he just meant "for a hobbyist", to make it seem more likely to pass as a gift)
This is, of course, not what I ordered. Far from it, I'd like it to be a Silver/Chrome rapped Filco MJT2 ...but hey, I didnt have to pay import duties on this.
i ordered an xt, and received it. however, it is not teensied (i paid 20 extra for teensy) and the caps came in a separate box but arrived together. pictures posted above in this thread
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 23 June 2016, 08:15:49
Hey y'all;
I just got a nicely packed IBM Model F XT from a 5155 Portable Computer (PN-6450300). It came with no keycaps, cable or Teensy as they're "shipped seperatly to meet weight req's". Which means I have a useless lump of good looking metal. I think this was one of the free items as I cant see anyone in desperate need for a yellowed non-working box of springs. (how are we even meant to find keycaps for this!?)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WYTynqq.jpg)MoreShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/AtKNS3b.jpg)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/bGCunUd.jpg)
Just a heads up if anyone ordered the 5155's Model F keyboard or has the cable/keycaps/teensy that it was supposed to come with. On the front of the package it said my name and GH name, BUT on the customs form it said "Non-working keyboard for hobbyist". There's no hobbyist on DT (?) and I dont know how to search names on here :-[Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/UFgJh4c.jpg)
(unless he just meant "for a hobbyist", to make it seem more likely to pass as a gift)
This is, of course, not what I ordered. Far from it, I'd like it to be a Silver/Chrome rapped Filco MJT2 ...but hey, I didnt have to pay import duties on this.
Bull****. He pulled all the Teensies because those are easier to sell and harder to track. And he did not have to pull it for weight. It's flat out lying; it's explicit fraud. Period. The end. It's right there on the box - 1.8kg. A Teensy would not put that over weight. (I will concede a standard F cable would put it over 2kg, but given the general quality of items delivered to date? It was probably a $0.30 Chinese made USB cable.)
I don't show anyone having bought that particular board, but he was asking $88 for it. Think about that a moment. Yeah. He wanted nearly $90 for that thing, claiming it was in very good condition and would come with a Teensy and removable cable. Exactly how many of those statements is true? That's right - zero. But this definitely is not a freebie, and we have NO idea who bought it.
Post by: Almost on Thu, 23 June 2016, 08:42:53
People actually do have use for this, so someone probably ordered it. BUT, in case no one claims this, or if that someone is far from EU and doesn't find it practical to ship it to them, please let me know as I do have a real need for this.
Also, quick update - my second package arrived to customs today, and if it doesn't get held up I should have it early next week.
Hmm, if nobody speaks up about this board then I can possibly send it away, I'll give it some time but if my purchase doesn't arrive and nobody has proof of purchase then I may try and fix it up it my self. This things made like something out of WW1, it's starting to grow on me. :p
That's if you were refering to my post, this thread confuses me something special.
~snip~
i ordered an xt, and received it. however, it is not teensied (i paid 20 extra for teensy) and the caps came in a separate box but arrived together. pictures posted above in this thread
Ah that may mean the keycaps and teensy are still in shipping towards me, or somebody else is going to get a package with some keycaps and cable. I can't really see how a split package to the same destination would arrive far apart in dates... but then again Gutz has messed this up royal.
Bull****. He pulled all the Teensies because those are easier to sell and harder to track. And he did not have to pull it for weight. It's flat out lying; it's explicit fraud. Period. The end. It's right there on the box - 1.8kg. A Teensy would not put that over weight. (I will concede a standard F cable would put it over 2kg, but given the general quality of items delivered to date? It was probably a $0.30 Chinese made USB cable.)
I don't show anyone having bought that particular board, but he was asking $88 for it. Think about that a moment. Yeah. He wanted nearly $90 for that thing, claiming it was in very good condition and would come with a Teensy and removable cable. Exactly how many of those statements is true? That's right - zero. But this definitely is not a freebie, and we have NO idea who bought it.
The entire 5155 computer system was available for ~€250 when I last looked, for the "non-working" half missing keyboard $88 is quite large even if it is a beauty. Since atleast one user has a use for this, you're right it wouldn't have been a freebie, although he mentioned before to a user that a 2kg package's max in singapore is actually 1.88kg's due to customs being gready bastards.
I weighed the keyboard and it's 1.650kg. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a teensy for this isn't that heavy.
sorry for the confusing multipost ^-^
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 23 June 2016, 09:10:52
if my purchase doesn't arrive and nobody has proof of purchase then I may try and fix it up it my self.
This things made like something out of WW1, it's starting to grow on me.
If it really is metal, the top case shell, then it is a very nice and unusual piece. I am in the US or I would make you an offer.
If it would accommodate XTant internals, it might be particularly desirable.
Post by: ideus on Thu, 23 June 2016, 09:17:43
Post by: Almost on Thu, 23 June 2016, 10:32:51
if my purchase doesn't arrive and nobody has proof of purchase then I may try and fix it up it my self.
This things made like something out of WW1, it's starting to grow on me.
If it really is metal, the top case shell, then it is a very nice and unusual piece. I am in the US or I would make you an offer.
If it would accommodate XTant internals, it might be particularly desirable.
The entire body is metal apart from the darker gray central bit around the keys, very nicely coated with an almost pebbledashed feel to it. The large locking feet are a lovely feature to. Compared to my little 'Filco > all ever' I can now totaly understand why Model F's are so popular, even without any keycaps the spacebar has a stunning feel to it.
...is the the beggining of a Model F obsession? :))
Post by: mike52787 on Thu, 23 June 2016, 21:42:27
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 24 June 2016, 12:38:34
Until we are completely certain an item was just shipped out as a freebie to dump it, we would ask on behalf of the folks who may have ordered it that everyone take reasonable care to prevent any damage. If you're not sure about testing an item or disassembling it (there's a reasonable likelihood the delivered items are non-functioning,) check with the person who ordered it and let everyone know the results of any testing.
At the same time, we ask folks to be reasonable in working with others to test if their items are functional. A little dirt on the keycaps is better than being surprised that you got sold scrap metal.
But again, what occurs there is between you two. Just please, please do not be ****s about it. If you don't have the tools to do the job or you don't know how, just say so. And please don't use "testing" as an excuse to beat on it into a daily driver. Treat it like you'd want somebody else to treat your stuff.
Almost, you might not want to take it apart so fast. Chloe documented the disassembly process over here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5492.0). Those boards get.. messy.
Post by: Almost on Fri, 24 June 2016, 13:49:08
Almost, you might not want to take it apart so fast. Chloe documented the disassembly process over here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5492.0). Those boards get.. messy.
Yeah I had a little gander on DT and here, I'm 100% NOT going to open it up. I'm hardly clumsy but it looks like a pain to open up without doing damage, I'll gladly clean it for when somebody reports it's theirs, but I dont want to break it!
It's back in the box for now... tempting as it is to buy her some caps and have a test drive.
Unrelated to this particular occasion, but in general; at what point do we give up and accpet a package is lost to some unknown desination?
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 24 June 2016, 14:47:31
Almost, you might not want to take it apart so fast. Chloe documented the disassembly process over here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5492.0). Those boards get.. messy.
Yeah I had a little gander on DT and here, I'm 100% NOT going to open it up. I'm hardly clumsy but it looks like a pain to open up without doing damage, I'll gladly clean it for when somebody reports it's theirs, but I dont want to break it!
It's back in the box for now... tempting as it is to buy her some caps and have a test drive.
Unrelated to this particular occasion, but in general; at what point do we give up and accpet a package is lost to some unknown desination?
Not so much without doing damage, as having to repair the age damage that's already there. And clean up eleven billion tiny pieces of foam. Yuck. See people? That right there is why I don't like F's. That! But honestly, if you had a set of keycaps, I don't think anyone here would give you grief for taking it for a spin. (Seriously, a large part of it is sharing the keyboards we like with others.) But none of us want people to be accusing others of breaking their stuff.
Right now the cutoff is mid-July (Skysophrenic is handling that side of the house.) If you got a box, didn't get what you ordered, and what you ordered hasn't appeared yet? Chances are that it's missing. And quite obviously a fairly large number of boards either never shipped or never existed. The difference is purely academic, since either way you're left holding the bag. Either way you should open a dispute or contact your bank or whatever is appropriate.
As an aside, I'm just waiting to get the word in writing from my credit card issuer at this point. Not surprisingly, they found 100% in my favor on the charge reversal, and Paypal basically said they weren't willing to pay shipping anywhere on a possibly broken keyboard and a handful of keycaps.
Post by: Almost on Fri, 24 June 2016, 17:33:21
Almost, you might not want to take it apart so fast. Chloe documented the disassembly process over here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5492.0). Those boards get.. messy.
Yeah I had a little gander on DT and here, I'm 100% NOT going to open it up. I'm hardly clumsy but it looks like a pain to open up without doing damage, I'll gladly clean it for when somebody reports it's theirs, but I dont want to break it!
It's back in the box for now... tempting as it is to buy her some caps and have a test drive.
Unrelated to this particular occasion, but in general; at what point do we give up and accpet a package is lost to some unknown desination?
Not so much without doing damage, as having to repair the age damage that's already there. And clean up eleven billion tiny pieces of foam. Yuck. See people? That right there is why I don't like F's. That! But honestly, if you had a set of keycaps, I don't think anyone here would give you grief for taking it for a spin. (Seriously, a large part of it is sharing the keyboards we like with others.) But none of us want people to be accusing others of breaking their stuff.
Right now the cutoff is mid-July (Skysophrenic is handling that side of the house.) If you got a box, didn't get what you ordered, and what you ordered hasn't appeared yet? Chances are that it's missing. And quite obviously a fairly large number of boards either never shipped or never existed. The difference is purely academic, since either way you're left holding the bag. Either way you should open a dispute or contact your bank or whatever is appropriate.
As an aside, I'm just waiting to get the word in writing from my credit card issuer at this point. Not surprisingly, they found 100% in my favor on the charge reversal, and Paypal basically said they weren't willing to pay shipping anywhere on a possibly broken keyboard and a handful of keycaps.
The singular peice of plastic that cirlces the keys is apparantly "very fragile", that means to me "don't even try". Still though, lovely board, I'll probably clear all the mystery shrapnel that's weaseled its way around the key shafts and hopefully get rid of the faint smell of cigarette smoke its giving my room. I wouldn't want to start a full anti-aging restoration on a something that isn't even mine :p
Mid July sounds allright, that seems enough time for all the packages to ship and for people to come forth, I see a couple of people still waiting on customs so I still have a little hope.
Unfortunatly I took the Western Union route, there's a VERY slim chance they'll even look at my request, nevermind accept it. It's in their T&C that they don't protect against fraud. I didn't use a credit card either, 2/2 so far for no refund.
I'm not too miffed since I've now learnt not to automatically trust people based on how popular/known they are. I luckily escaped the Ivan kerfuffle but I still should have taken that as a warning :(
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 24 June 2016, 18:56:45
having to repair the age damage that's already there. And clean up eleven billion tiny pieces of foam. Yuck. See people? That right there is why I don't like F's.
Please send all your Fs to me, then.
Taking the beast completely apart and thoroughly cleaning it is just part of the process. Cutting a new mat is no big deal.
Post by: alh84001 on Mon, 27 June 2016, 05:54:05
1) XT assembly with bottom case, and without springs - I could have used springs and legs, but this is just useless
2) M122 bottom case and assembly with most, but not all keycap bottom parts (there could matching keycaps in one of the bags
3) Grey-on-white label 1991 model M with about half of keycap bottom parts - this one had an ironic label on it
Aside from that, there was a bunch of IBM keycaps, many from Wheelwriters according to labels, and what appears as two WYSE keycap sets and bunch of random colorful Cherry keycaps intended for Wodan.
Additionally, from the stuff I ordered this was actually in the box (not pictured):
- soldering pumps
- soldering helping hands
From the stuff I didn't order this was in the box (not pictured):
- BT headset
- 2x1GB RAM for desktops, don't know the exact kind right now
Pics at http://imgur.com/a/aE12h
Post by: Darkshado on Mon, 27 June 2016, 06:48:17
Gotta leave for work, where are you located?
Thanks,
Darkshado
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 27 June 2016, 09:32:33
The headset might be IkeaDragon's missing Sonicgear headphones? So, completely wrong country.
Pinged Wodan - the Wheelwriter set isn't his. So another bag of "where the hell did this come from and where the hell was it supposed to go?"
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 27 June 2016, 13:03:55
Here's what Wodan got. He's not on GH. The one at the top is an IBM 6112883 according to the label. There is only one of those, described as:
"IBM 6112883 SKCC Green Alps T-Mount (Japanese), NIB stock"
Well, it's a 6112883. It's Japanese. It's sure not NIB and sure not stock. It's beat to death, and yes, the case is broken too.
The M122 is with slowfi (he and Wodan combined shipping) but I have no idea which board it is. It's not the one sold twice since it's not painted red - or maybe it is and the description lied. The F122, also unsure, but we only have one sold as "stock" to 122Obessed (typo?)
Post by: ideus on Mon, 27 June 2016, 14:41:14
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 27 June 2016, 16:14:06
It appears as if the OP were shipping stuff from a junk yard for old PC components.
Yet here I sit with a KBC Pure that was roughly as described, which makes me wonder if it even works at all - or if people are simply not reporting the 'better' items they've received.
Post by: 3K on Mon, 27 June 2016, 16:22:26
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 27 June 2016, 21:50:57
To report a positive thing in this thread... last week I received the wristrest I ordered! However it was not white though, rather a little golden. Also it took an indirect route over sweden.
Is this the first recorded evidence of someone actually getting what they paid for?
Post by: kekman on Mon, 27 June 2016, 22:01:08
To report a positive thing in this thread... last week I received the wristrest I ordered! However it was not white though, rather a little golden. Also it took an indirect route over sweden.
Is this the first recorded evidence of someone actually getting what they paid for?
I got my Model F XT Portable shipped out, only thing though was that it was not teensied as I paid extra for.
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 27 June 2016, 22:29:35
To report a positive thing in this thread... last week I received the wristrest I ordered! However it was not white though, rather a little golden. Also it took an indirect route over sweden.
Is this the first recorded evidence of someone actually getting what they paid for?
I do not believe so, since I believe that ended up with someone else first, who then forwarded it on.
Keycaps, the only correct order to date has been nugglets who received the KC15 Vortex made White on White set he paid for - but not the Green LEDs he also paid for.
kekman's item is so far off from the description, it can't justifiably be called correct. The only correctly shipped item reported to date is claimed by nocturnalowl, who received the B05 Green Valley keyboard he ordered. But none of the other stuff he ordered, along with a bunch of junk he didn't.
In completely related news, I am having a large glass of wine tonight.
Post by: mason on Mon, 27 June 2016, 23:24:29
edit: This is what I ordered. I haven't checked if all of the keys were there yet. I'm just happy my package even arrived.
edit 2: not missing any keycaps. just a few relegendable covers, but I wasn't going to use those
[attachimg=1]
Post by: mind_funeral on Tue, 28 June 2016, 00:01:12
(http://i.imgur.com/6M647YA.jpg)
Some ****ty BOW cherry profile grab bag bull**** and some ****ty WOB that look like they have cherry MY stabs. I doubt anyone actually bought this garbage...
Post by: 122obsessed on Tue, 28 June 2016, 00:20:18
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DO2HLen.jpg)
Here's what Wodan got. He's not on GH. The one at the top is an IBM 6112883 according to the label. There is only one of those, described as:
"IBM 6112883 SKCC Green Alps T-Mount (Japanese), NIB stock"
Well, it's a 6112883. It's Japanese. It's sure not NIB and sure not stock. It's beat to death, and yes, the case is broken too.
The M122 is with slowfi (he and Wodan combined shipping) but I have no idea which board it is. It's not the one sold twice since it's not painted red - or maybe it is and the description lied. The F122, also unsure, but we only have one sold as "stock" to 122Obessed (typo?)
It's likely then that the F122 is mine.
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 28 June 2016, 09:51:42
I know there were MYs listed.. just can't find 'em. Gotta love the ******* deleting the evidence as he went. Also gotta love those completely unsalvageable, worn-through junker BoWs.
Post by: gnarlsagan on Tue, 28 June 2016, 19:03:11
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 28 June 2016, 19:29:18
My order just arrived today, and it actually looks 100% correct: WoB M13 keycaps. Haven't checked every key yet, but at cursory glance it's at least the correct order.
(Dons M13 Hat) Really you only need to check GHB; the rest are standard M parts. So it doesn't matter if they're "M13" or not. (/Hat)
So at least one set of those exists... unfortunately, the M13 WoB set was triple-sold. At least triple sold. :(
Post by: WNovizar on Tue, 28 June 2016, 20:15:06
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DO2HLen.jpg)
Here's what Wodan got. He's not on GH. The one at the top is an IBM 6112883 according to the label. There is only one of those, described as:
"IBM 6112883 SKCC Green Alps T-Mount (Japanese), NIB stock"
Well, it's a 6112883. It's Japanese. It's sure not NIB and sure not stock. It's beat to death, and yes, the case is broken too.
The M122 is with slowfi (he and Wodan combined shipping) but I have no idea which board it is. It's not the one sold twice since it's not painted red - or maybe it is and the description lied. The F122, also unsure, but we only have one sold as "stock" to 122Obessed (typo?)
It's likely then that the F122 is mine.
There is also a chance that this is also my F122.
Post by: Darkshado on Tue, 28 June 2016, 20:40:13
Montreal Gazette article: Canada Post negotiations: Possible strike starting Saturday (http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/canada-post-negotiations-possible-strike-starting-saturday)
So my freebie RAM is probably going to sit in Europe for a while no matter what.
Post by: rootwyrm on Tue, 28 June 2016, 21:43:29
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DO2HLen.jpg)
Here's what Wodan got. He's not on GH. The one at the top is an IBM 6112883 according to the label. There is only one of those, described as:
"IBM 6112883 SKCC Green Alps T-Mount (Japanese), NIB stock"
Well, it's a 6112883. It's Japanese. It's sure not NIB and sure not stock. It's beat to death, and yes, the case is broken too.
The M122 is with slowfi (he and Wodan combined shipping) but I have no idea which board it is. It's not the one sold twice since it's not painted red - or maybe it is and the description lied. The F122, also unsure, but we only have one sold as "stock" to 122Obessed (typo?)
It's likely then that the F122 is mine.
There is also a chance that this is also my F122.
Based on the photos, the case isn't painted and it's the wrong caps. (F16 was identified as having the case painted silver and "many colorful keycaps".) If that doesn't line up with what you were told F16 was, that means the identifiers were ALSO being moved around by Gutz to further confuse things at some point. Which would not freaking surprise me.
How many other Canadians are awaiting their packages? There's a high risk of a postal strike starting this Saturday, and Friday July 1st is Canada Day (i.e. a federal holiday, no mail delivery). Three days left to get our boxes, then ????
... stop with the bad news already people! I have enough reasons to drink! :(
Post by: biocalves on Tue, 28 June 2016, 23:54:09
http://imgur.com/vfSptfJ
So this is what I ordered:
DSA Grab Bag - $20
Vortex White on White Doubleshot PBT for Backlit - $22
J05. KBT Race 75% - $50
Cyan on White Thick PBT - $20
I received:
Red and White Blank DSA Keys
Blank Grey DCS Keys
White on Blue DCS Mods (Partial)
Some printed DCS Alphas
So yeah no sign of Doubleshot PBTs, KBT Race, and Cyan on White Thick PBT.
Berserkfan if you are reading this, I don't think you can look at me in the face and tell me that this is equal or similar value buddy. I paid you via Paypal gift through my bank account so you have my money, and it's not, but this is still too much...
Guys, I guess I have some DCS I can ship to you that wasn't part of my order, but honestly I don't even think it's worth the postage. However, let me know who ordered it and I'll see what I can do about getting it in your hands.
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 29 June 2016, 08:00:57
Hey Hey Hey I finally got a package!!!!!
http://imgur.com/vfSptfJ
So this is what I ordered:
DSA Grab Bag - $20
Vortex White on White Doubleshot PBT for Backlit - $22
J05. KBT Race 75% - $50
Cyan on White Thick PBT - $20
I received:
Red and White Blank DSA Keys
Blank Grey DCS Keys
White on Blue DCS Mods (Partial)
Some printed DCS Alphas
So yeah no sign of Doubleshot PBTs, KBT Race, and Cyan on White Thick PBT.
Berserkfan if you are reading this, I don't think you can look at me in the face and tell me that this is equal or similar value buddy. I paid you via Paypal gift through my bank account so you have my money, and it's not, but this is still too much...
Guys, I guess I have some DCS I can ship to you that wasn't part of my order, but honestly I don't even think it's worth the postage. However, let me know who ordered it and I'll see what I can do about getting it in your hands.
Can you PM myself and Skysophrenic proof? Recordkeeping is critical now - especially since many items were double-sold. Also, try opening a dispute through Paypal anyway. They are 100% aware that beserkfan was engaging in straight up fraud at this point and have been for over a month; if they won't refund, reverse the charges through your credit card issuer if possible.
THE SPREADSHEET (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing)
Case in point, the Vortex White on White PBT doubleshots? Those were doublesold. Only one set, and he charged two people two different prices for it. Which we didn't know till this post. TELL US WHAT YOU BOUGHT, PEOPLE. IT'S NOT THAT HARD.
I cannot emphasize this enough: Gutz scammed everyone. It is in your best interests to tell us what you ordered as quickly as possible. Dispute windows are closing. You are almost certainly not going to receive what you paid for in any boxes that do bother to show up. The spreadsheet exists to try and get folks what they paid for from the person it landed with. That's why we require proof from buyers.
And people who think they're going to just sell someone else's items to recoup their losses... you will get caught. We're watching.
Post by: mind_funeral on Wed, 29 June 2016, 08:10:05
And people who think they're going to just sell someone else's items to recoup their losses... you will get caught. We're watching.
And what is the consequence? Not sure you can really do anything.
Post by: Scarpia on Fri, 01 July 2016, 11:29:38
What I received: Two flimsy cardboard boxes taped together to hold 4.9kgs worth of keyboard junk, and (of course) none of what I actually ordered.
(http://i.imgur.com/cJNn8Gn.jpg)
Full gallery: http://imgur.com/a/LkErN (http://imgur.com/a/LkErN)
Received (untested, very likely some or all of this is defective):
* Filco Majestouch (no keycaps)
* CiTaq point of sale keyboard (loosely put together without screws)
* Keys: A dozen or so colored IBM keys
* Keys: Chinese doubleshots - the bag says 'full set' but I haven't counted them
* Keys: A couple of IBM-style spacebars
* Keys: Filco keycaps? White on black Cherry MX stem keycaps, space bar weirdly taped up like it's been broken before? Can't tell if these are actually Filco caps.
* Keyboard rubbish worth nothing: Two PCBs of unknown origin and a foam pad
* 4 junk cables, DIN to some kind of PCB connector pair?
And just for the record, this is what I actually ordered:
* 2 x Teensy 2.0 no pins
* KBC PokerX, SIP modded
* KBT Pure, unlubed 78g clears, blue theme case+cable
* Model F 50 keys teensied
* Model F bigfoot stock
* Model F XT teensied, no other mod
* Thick PBT colored grab bag, 80 pieces
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 01 July 2016, 11:36:44
Those two PCBs are from an XT. And that foam is a freebie meant for me I believe :D I don't think there was more than one. And from what I can tell, cables are also from XTs and terminal (122) model Ms.
Edit:
I think that Filco matches the description of J03 - "Filco MJ2 Bluetooth Convertible JIS fullsize, switch moddable white plate, SIP modded, full set SA profile keycaps and many more keycaps", obviously not the keycap part. It was supposed to go to Darkshado.
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 01 July 2016, 12:35:03
The Citaq is P18 - freebie junk. No wonder it was free. It's literal garbage. At most useful for harvesting the switches out of. Does it even have switches?
The Filco in the box is most definitely J03, no question. It was originally listed for $180, sold for $36. I considered it briefly, but Filco, so I passed. That's Darkshado's. Tells you a lot right then and there, that it sold for $36.
I saw that photo and I really hoped it was J01 so Scarpia and I could cross-ship boards (I have his Pure, or at least PART of it) but no such luck.
Post by: Darkshado on Fri, 01 July 2016, 19:07:34
On the assumption there still is a box bound for my address, the labour conflict at Canada Post throws a question mark on when that'll get here.
(They're still negotiating according to this La Presse article (http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economie/canada/201607/01/01-4997077-limminence-dun-conflit-de-travail-chez-postes-canada-est-repoussee.php) in French)
Scarpia: would you mind testing the board when you get a chance, and are the "Filco" caps in that box a match for it? (No rush due to postal problems stated above.)
Regards,
Darkshado
Post by: ideus on Fri, 01 July 2016, 19:25:59
Well this is what I got... Gutz you ****ing ass.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6M647YA.jpg)
Some ****ty BOW cherry profile grab bag bull**** and some ****ty WOB that look like they have cherry MY stabs. I doubt anyone actually bought this garbage...
This is the first time, that I see a worn off double shot cap, down up to its legends layer, wow!
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 01 July 2016, 20:08:22
Well this is what I got... Gutz you ****ing ass.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6M647YA.jpg)
Some ****ty BOW cherry profile grab bag bull**** and some ****ty WOB that look like they have cherry MY stabs. I doubt anyone actually bought this garbage...
This is the first time, that I see a worn off double shot cap, down up to its legends layer, wow!
Could've been a misprint. I have a few of those from SP.
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 01 July 2016, 21:55:02
Well this is what I got... Gutz you ****ing ass.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6M647YA.jpg)
Some ****ty BOW cherry profile grab bag bull**** and some ****ty WOB that look like they have cherry MY stabs. I doubt anyone actually bought this garbage...
This is the first time, that I see a worn off double shot cap, down up to its legends layer, wow!
Could've been a misprint. I have a few of those from SP.
It's not. It's most definitely not. Look at the other keycaps. Specifically the arrow. That's not misprint - that's straight up wear-through on two keys. Look at the keycaps next to it - there's excessive wear, clearly visible. Even if it was a misprint, it was never disclosed anywhere in any of the lists. At this point, it's beyond naive to think the majority of items shipped were not outright lied about in multiple regards.
Post by: 27 on Fri, 01 July 2016, 22:35:14
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 01 July 2016, 23:07:02
It's not. It's most definitely not. Look at the other keycaps. Specifically the arrow. That's not misprint - that's straight up wear-through on two keys. Look at the keycaps next to it - there's excessive wear, clearly visible. Even if it was a misprint, it was never disclosed anywhere in any of the lists. At this point, it's beyond naive to think the majority of items shipped were not outright lied about in multiple regards.
Mate, I'm not saying he isn't wrong at this point - just making a comment.
Post by: mike52787 on Sat, 02 July 2016, 15:44:43
(http://i.imgur.com/67I792w.jpg)`
(http://i.imgur.com/XdNe5S4.jpg)
I will get on DT and message the user that I recieved's order. What a ****ing mess.
WHAT I ORDERED:
Ibm Model F122 ansi modded plate painted teensied
Ibm Model F 50 keypad, teensied
Reuters G80-9009
PLU-87 tkl
WHAT I RECIEVED:
m13 missing keycaps and trackpoint
f50 unmodded
a few model f cables
colorful BS keycaps
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 02 July 2016, 16:44:02
Well ****. Just got my box today, and I recieved someone else's order entirely. Not that I expected to get my stuff mind you.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/67I792w.jpg)`Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XdNe5S4.jpg)
I will get on DT and message the user that I recieved's order. What a ****ing mess.
WHAT I ORDERED:
Ibm Model F122 ansi modded plate painted teensied
Ibm Model F 50 keypad, teensied
Reuters G80-9009
PLU-87 tkl
WHAT I RECIEVED:
m13 missing keycaps and trackpoint
f50 unmodded
a few model f cables
colorful BS keycaps
Sigh. *puts on The M13 hat* That is absolutely not an M13. Period. It is absolutely without any question F37 - which was ordered and paid for by both Tyr and karandach - but it is a statement of fact that it is not an M13. Without the complete TrackPoint assembly it is at best a low value M, and most definitely not the $300 M13 with "mint keycaps" it was described as. It was clearly hacked up by someone with absolutely no respect for the board. I'd wager the PS/2 pass-through is missing and if not, non-functional. This is not a repairable or salvageable M13; it's a collection of worthless parts.
That's also not the F that was advertised or paid for. That one was explicitly advertised as being Teensied. But at least it appears to be in not-completely-worthless condition. No surprise, every single F 50 key has been missing the Teensy or otherwise not as advertised.
Mike, can you please PM Skysophrenic and I proof of your order so we can put that in the spreadsheet?
Also can you please get me some more shots of the black junk? I need the GHB and 7/8/F6/F7 area so I can confirm that is NOT an M13 plate, the rear panel, and a straight on shot of the front mouse button area. That should tell me how much of a basket case it is.
Post by: Karandach on Sat, 02 July 2016, 16:51:11
EDIT : ok I understand, I hoped to have the original caps.
Normally there were several M13 for sale.
Post by: rootwyrm on Sat, 02 July 2016, 18:09:49
I'm divided between happiness and disappointment.
EDIT : ok I understand, I hoped to have the original caps.
Normally there were several M13 for sale.
According to the docs we have, there was F24 as a 1391401 M with bolt mod, teensy, in a black M13 trackpoint case and with extra M13 internals, keycaps, and green on white dyesub - that was F24. The only other black M13 was F37. The other was a white MaxiSwitch - which is why I passed on it. It's entirely possible this is F24 - which would make the fraud even MORE galling and blatant if anything.
Given beserk was editing and altering evidence the whole while, it's possible he had and removed another M13. But "mint" condition M13's in any color are increasingly rare. If there had been another on there, I almost certainly would have grabbed it myself.
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 03 July 2016, 00:24:25
[attachimg=1]
Post by: Karandach on Sun, 03 July 2016, 03:15:14
https://goo.gl/photos/n6AjLFVpFjDbzXsj7
Post by: romevi on Sun, 03 July 2016, 22:16:08
He's watching ...
(Attachment Link)
You're confused. He's been active quite a bit since January 7, 2016. :rolleyes:
Post by: mike52787 on Sun, 03 July 2016, 22:45:38
I checked my conversations with Bersekfan and I have noticed this informations :Well atleast your order was close to right, It just got sent to me :)) still missing keycaps on the m13 though.
https://goo.gl/photos/n6AjLFVpFjDbzXsj7
Keep me informed when you need me to send your stuff out.
Having a bit of fun with your colored keycaps right now though :D :D
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 04 July 2016, 08:26:17
I checked my conversations with Bersekfan and I have noticed this informations :
https://goo.gl/photos/n6AjLFVpFjDbzXsj7
Ugh, yeah.. I needed to zoom in on the picture more. Slider configuration is a dead giveaway - that's an M13 ridged upper. Stupid mistake due to rushing.
That should be a Lexmark with an M13 OPN. So at least he did a clean removal of the trackpoint itself - it anchors with glue with the top of the T fitting in the lower ridge gap. Those are also all 'black ribbon' trackpoint boards. 7 conductor strain gauge zig-zag cable, and essentially impossible to replace or repair. (They're genuine TrackPoints, meaning the patented strain gauge setup. Unicomp couldn't get the rights.) Any sort of attempt to refit a trackpoint would require a whole new controller, button matrix, and hacking in a physically incompatible assembly or replacing the whole plate.
So basically, it's no different from an M in an M13 case at this point.
Post by: QuincyJones on Tue, 05 July 2016, 15:37:52
The seller should be glad this didn't happen on Ebay.
And, as far as I understand, paypal will refund unquestionably if what you received was significantly not as described, and then seek the money from the seller. I'm pretty sure it's part of their VISA / money license thing. Then, they themselves would chase the seller through bailiffs / the courts if necessary.
Post by: Moistgun on Tue, 05 July 2016, 15:40:37
As a complete outsider, just glancing down this thread looks like some Woody Allen tragic comedy.
The seller should be glad this didn't happen on Ebay.
And, as far as I understand, paypal will refund unquestionably if what you received was significantly not as described, and then seek the money from the seller. I'm pretty sure it's part of their VISA / money license thing. Then, they themselves would chase the seller through bailiffs / the courts if necessary.
would that be as effective since he lives in Malaysia, or wherever?
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 05 July 2016, 17:04:28
As a complete outsider, just glancing down this thread looks like some Woody Allen tragic comedy.
The seller should be glad this didn't happen on Ebay.
And, as far as I understand, paypal will refund unquestionably if what you received was significantly not as described, and then seek the money from the seller. I'm pretty sure it's part of their VISA / money license thing. Then, they themselves would chase the seller through bailiffs / the courts if necessary.
would that be as effective since he lives in Malaysia, or wherever?
He can still be tracked. PayPal would contact the authorities in Malaysia regarding the fraud and work with them.
Post by: QuincyJones on Tue, 05 July 2016, 17:12:34
I would hazard a guess, yes, even Malysia. There are many scammers online with many an excuse playing on many a feelings. To me, alarm bells are screaming here.
If I were caught up in all of this, I wouldn't bother messing around, I'd just contact paypal. More red flashing lights: OP has even threatened "just disappearing".
If OP didn't want to pay return postage for you to them, then do what you want with the goods you received - that is, if paypal don't offer you a pre-paid stamp to return - which if they did, of course would be added to OP's debt.
Don't wait for OP to sort it. Get it done. Payment processors don't mess around - they make huge profit from feckups like this
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 05 July 2016, 18:51:01
they make huge profit from feckups like this
Absolutely no one is going to make a huge profit from this one.
At best someone might get a nice keyboard intended for someone else and make a few hundred dollars off of selling it.
Post by: QuincyJones on Tue, 05 July 2016, 19:53:34
they make huge profit from feckups like this
Absolutely no one is going to make a huge profit from this one.
At best someone might get a nice keyboard intended for someone else and make a few hundred dollars off of selling it.
Payment processors have billions. They make profit from everything. As for the people who have been scammed - contact paypal / the police today (first one definietely, second one up to you). Once paypal hear that you're not the only one and it's many people with many amounts of money, paypal themselves will probably contact the police too.
The excuse of using the wife to post it and she screwed up is risible.
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 05 July 2016, 21:50:20
Most law enforcement agencies would scoff at a $5K case, spread thinly around the world with no viable paper trail.
Post by: QuincyJones on Wed, 06 July 2016, 00:23:09
You can't squeeze blood from a stone. The entirety of this event was <$5K
Most law enforcement agencies would scoff at a $5K case, spread thinly around the world with no viable paper trail.
that's complete and utter tosh.
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 06 July 2016, 06:48:36
Post by: rootwyrm on Wed, 06 July 2016, 14:17:26
Mismatched LEDs. The SIP sockets are poorly aligned and too loose or damaged. And it turns out it's missing 3 LEDs. Juryrigged in some spares (5mm 3.3v), and the backlighting doesn't appear to work at all. And the Caps Lock LED is randomly flashing. The left foot keeps coming loose (fairly easy to fix that,) but one of the screws mounting it to the case has a stripped head (not so easy to fix.)
So yes, what was advertised as a perfectly good working board is definitely not.
This video shows exactly what the backlight situation looks like. Out of sync, cheap RGB flashing units that don't work for dimming. There are several LEDs missing as well. (https://1drv.ms/v/s!AiMfQxCQhsBXiYx-OnsxjL_DFVAJuw)
Post by: 3K on Thu, 07 July 2016, 04:15:14
Post by: rootwyrm on Thu, 07 July 2016, 10:03:46
As I didn't follow conversation here, I just want to state that I ordered one of IBM keypads. Just a reminder, as I saw some of them recieved by people, while not being contacted by any of them.
Don't worry, we've got you in the spreadsheet.
Post by: QuincyJones on Fri, 08 July 2016, 00:59:35
For the love of... people, stop cluttering up the thread with crap that's already been hashed out.
uhm, nothing's been hashed out from what I can see apart from some usernames (the same person?) telling people not to do anything because your name is in a "spreadsheet". Big whoop! I call it, big red flashing lights all over this thread.
Unless money is refunded back into your account, nothing's been hashed out. And that's what chargebacks are for. The people who are holding on thinking they're going to be sorted are playing right into the scammers hands. "People" posting here stating not to do anything are saying exactly what the scammers want you to do. Coincidence?
You as a "customer" may have a max time limit to get this sorted with paypal before the scammer gets away with it and you can no longer claim with paypal. So don't delay and don't think it'll be sorted at all, let alone soon.
Post by: nugglets on Fri, 08 July 2016, 02:29:59
For the love of... people, stop cluttering up the thread with crap that's already been hashed out.
uhm, nothing's been hashed out from what I can see apart from some usernames (the same person?) telling people not to do anything because your name is in a "spreadsheet". Big whoop! I call it, big red flashing lights all over this thread.
Unless money is refunded back into your account, nothing's been hashed out. And that's what chargebacks are for. The people who are holding on thinking they're going to be sorted are playing right into the scammers hands. "People" posting here stating not to do anything are saying exactly what the scammers want you to do. Coincidence?
You as a "customer" may have a max time limit to get this sorted with paypal before the scammer gets away with it and you can no longer claim with paypal. So don't delay and don't think it'll be sorted at all, let alone soon.
All of which has been said over a dozen times in this thread.
No one is telling people not to do anything because their name is in a spreadsheet, they have repeatedly told people to file disputes with their banks/paypal/western union/moneygram/their grandmothers etc.
The spreadsheet is something entirely different, meant as a means to try and help people actually receive items they paid for, in addition to any disputes, as well as being something you can show your bank/paypal/whatever as proof of the scale of this fraud.
Post by: alh84001 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 02:50:56
I opened her up and there is one broken trace where ribbon cable is bent. That is not unusual, but here's the pic of the second broken trace
(http://i.imgur.com/fKg8C56.jpg)
How? Just how? :))
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 08 July 2016, 14:50:17
To stop the bickering, here's a small update. I tried plugging in one of those dirty, keycapless, cableless model M with rusty springs, and of course that the membrane has broken traces. Of course it has :)
I opened her up and there is one broken trace where ribbon cable is bent. That is not unusual, but here's the pic of the second broken traceShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/fKg8C56.jpg)
How? Just how? :))
... well the only way THAT happens is if someone broke it through incompetence or deliberate action. So he would have had to take it apart, break it, put it back together.
Paypal is officially on my **** list now. They're trying to challenge my chargeback, demanding I return it because beserkfan is claiming the Pure isn't broken, or get a third-party "technical expert" to state it is broken. The ****ing thing has missing LEDs, has clearly broken LEDs, has physically broken switch tops, isn't holding settings, and doesn't detect half the time it's plugged in. And of course, he's also sticking to the claim that his address is 38 Jalan Baiduri - which we all already know is a completely fake address.
If any of you have gotten an uncontested refund from Paypal, can you please PM me directly? At this point, it's clear that Paypal is going to be an impediment because beserkfan already made off with the cash. All refunds are coming at Paypal's expense, not his, so they're more than willing to break the law. (And make no mistake, in Ohio what Paypal is doing is explicitly illegal.) The more evidence we have that they are, the better the chance people can successfully reverse their credit card charges.
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:34:20
Post by: QuincyJones on Fri, 08 July 2016, 17:59:59
PayPal has no control over whether someone appeals a chargeback or not. In fact, they are following the law in this dispute and they will give you the money one they get proof of its non-working condition. PayPal isn't out to get you.
yep, this. of course he will dispute it as it's all he can do. as long as you're prepared to stand in a court of law if necessary and show it doesn't work, then you're good. that's the kind of determination you need. some customers are scummy ****s too. i'd suggest you go to the police with a print out of this thread and address / details / account info etc. you don't think he isn't reading this entire thread and laughing?
also, get an invoice from the person you pay to inspect it and add that to the chargeback.
nolites le bastardes grind you down or whatever.
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:24:08
PayPal has no control over whether someone appeals a chargeback or not. In fact, they are following the law in this dispute and they will give you the money one they get proof of its non-working condition. PayPal isn't out to get you.
This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. Paypal is the ONLY entity that can challenge a chargeback through Visa Arbitration procedures. PERIOD. The seller has NO legal standing to contest a chargeback. Any more than you know what the hell you're talking about.
Post by: Dongulator on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:30:32
Post by: QuincyJones on Fri, 08 July 2016, 19:42:10
The burden of proof to show that a customer has been rightfully charged falls on the merchant, and when consumers successfully dispute charges, the merchant loses both the product sold and the revenue from that sale.
However, this is not paypal's chargeback system. speak to them and ask for help. explain the situation too.
Post by: TerryMathews on Fri, 08 July 2016, 23:35:49
PayPal has no control over whether someone appeals a chargeback or not. In fact, they are following the law in this dispute and they will give you the money one they get proof of its non-working condition. PayPal isn't out to get you.
This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. Paypal is the ONLY entity that can challenge a chargeback through Visa Arbitration procedures. PERIOD. The seller has NO legal standing to contest a chargeback. Any more than you know what the hell you're talking about.
You're taking a very simplistic view of the situation. Paypal is a payment processor first and foremost. Did they file the dispute? Technically, yes. A more accurate description however would be "Yes, on behalf of their customer." If you file a chargeback against someone you paid via Square, is it fair to say that Square is fighting you for the funds? Of course not, procedurally they were the ones that opened the dispute but on behalf of their customer.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And on a more constructive note, I would send back in writing and request that Paypal cover a technician's diagnostic fee if they are going to insist on an expert stating the board is damaged.
Post by: QuincyJones on Sat, 09 July 2016, 02:19:08
Post by: kekman on Sat, 09 July 2016, 05:04:52
it's sad there seems to be only one person taking steps to recover their money.
cool
Post by: meiosis on Sat, 09 July 2016, 05:30:43
stating the "details" as is:
Not a single person has received what they ordered.
Prior to deleting posts, berserkfan stated that he will not make this right, and that by disputing him he would go to the length of making you send back the item (on your cost) making it less enticing to dispute.
His assumption that "you will get items much more then you originally ordered so you should be satisfied" bs, has proven false for many.
Blames his wife for doing what should have been his job, also blaming us for "even if we receive the wrong item we wouldn't speak up about it, so it's not fixable"
----
Basically, if you paid via anything that does not have a dispute - you are screwed.
If you don't dispute the money is gone. (and you have to wait for someone to get your item, and hope they are honest to send it out)
If you gifted - screwed unless you lie to paypal.
Berserkfan has already stated his view to get us to lose out on return shipping (to his old house that he isn't even at anymore) at the very least if you dispute, so I don't get why people are attacking each other here.
Post by: chuckdee on Sat, 09 July 2016, 08:48:48
it's sad there seems to be only one person taking steps to recover their money.
You don't know that. As Root said, don't pollute the thread with things that have already been hashed out. Several people have already recovered their money, myself included. Which is the reason I no longer post in the thread.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sun, 10 July 2016, 06:18:26
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 10 July 2016, 09:21:04
Not sure why there is so much ill sentiment towards rootwyrm taking action against berserkfan,
because they're all the same person or are shill accounts trying to discourage/stop root from doing what he's doing by bullying and harassing him.
those making the most noise have the most to lose.
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 10 July 2016, 09:29:05
And there's some ppl like me who paid by other way than paypal (wu,moneygram) that are not getting their money back, and will (at least i will) use any ways necessary to get their things correct (or at least, part of it.)
it looks like no one got anything even remotely as described between all of you so you'll never get their correct things. So, stop being so náive! Police / If you're in the same country, sue. As it's on a large scale, go to the police. If the police tell you it's a civil case, remind them how many of you have been defauded of money and the crimes committed.
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Sun, 10 July 2016, 09:47:31
And there's some ppl like me who paid by other way than paypal (wu,moneygram) that are not getting their money back, and will (at least i will) use any ways necessary to get their things correct (or at least, part of it.)
it looks like no one got anything even remotely as described between all of you so you'll never get their correct things. So, stop being so náive! Police / If you're in the same country, sue. As it's on a large scale, go to the police. If the police tell you it's a civil case, remind them how many of you have been defauded of money and the crimes committed.
Different country. If i were in the same country with him i'd self collect instead..
*Edit grammar
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 10 July 2016, 09:56:13
Everyone talks big like that but look at how many tens of thousands of dollars ivan ran off with in the usa and nothing came of it.And there's some ppl like me who paid by other way than paypal (wu,moneygram) that are not getting their money back, and will (at least i will) use any ways necessary to get their things correct (or at least, part of it.)
it looks like no one got anything even remotely as described between all of you so you'll never get their correct things. So, stop being so náive! Police / If you're in the same country, sue. As it's on a large scale, go to the police. If the police tell you it's a civil case, remind them how many of you have been defauded of money and the crimes committed.
Different country. If i were in the same country with him i'd self collect instead..
*Edit grammar
Post by: codywanks on Sun, 10 July 2016, 10:18:14
So, stop being sonáivenaïve!
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 10 July 2016, 11:04:43
Everyone talks big like that but look at how many tens of thousands of dollars ivan ran off with in the usa and nothing came of it.And there's some ppl like me who paid by other way than paypal (wu,moneygram) that are not getting their money back, and will (at least i will) use any ways necessary to get their things correct (or at least, part of it.)
it looks like no one got anything even remotely as described between all of you so you'll never get their correct things. So, stop being so náive! Police / If you're in the same country, sue. As it's on a large scale, go to the police. If the police tell you it's a civil case, remind them how many of you have been defauded of money and the crimes committed.
Different country. If i were in the same country with him i'd self collect instead..
*Edit grammar
I *think* there's some insane *f yeah murica" law or mandate or whatever that if something like this happens (regardless of where around the world it is), if the amount is > $5000, then the FBI want to know about it. Banks (in England) have a legal duty to report certain transactions to the FBI so I'm fairly-reliably told.
Post by: fohat.digs on Sun, 10 July 2016, 11:16:53
Everyone talks big like that but look at how many tens of thousands of dollars ivan ran off with in the usa and nothing came of it.
I *think* there's some insane *f yeah murica" law or mandate or whatever that if something like this happens (regardless of where around the world it is), if the amount is > $5000, then the FBI want to know about it. Banks (in England) have a legal duty to report certain transactions to the FBI so I'm fairly-reliably told.
My understanding is that the total of this operation was something <$4K (not including my $100 which was actually outside of it, more or less).
Post by: QuincyJones on Sun, 10 July 2016, 11:38:19
Everyone talks big like that but look at how many tens of thousands of dollars ivan ran off with in the usa and nothing came of it.
I *think* there's some insane *f yeah murica" law or mandate or whatever that if something like this happens (regardless of where around the world it is), if the amount is > $5000, then the FBI want to know about it. Banks (in England) have a legal duty to report certain transactions to the FBI so I'm fairly-reliably told.
My understanding is that the total of this operation was something <$4K (not including my $100 which was actually outside of it, more or less).
"operation". So, it was planned and executed then. Anyway, it's for the police to decide.
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 10 July 2016, 12:22:15
Everyone talks big like that but look at how many tens of thousands of dollars ivan ran off with in the usa and nothing came of it.And there's some ppl like me who paid by other way than paypal (wu,moneygram) that are not getting their money back, and will (at least i will) use any ways necessary to get their things correct (or at least, part of it.)
it looks like no one got anything even remotely as described between all of you so you'll never get their correct things. So, stop being so náive! Police / If you're in the same country, sue. As it's on a large scale, go to the police. If the police tell you it's a civil case, remind them how many of you have been defauded of money and the crimes committed.
Different country. If i were in the same country with him i'd self collect instead..
*Edit grammar
The FBI wants to know about bad transactions beyond a certain large total,
But the REASON they want to know is not for the issue itself, but to investigate if there were any serious crimes involved, such as laundering, murder, trafficking, drugs, etc.
They don't care about keyboards, and if that's all that was involved, they would never investigate further..
So if you manage to prove Ivan was also involved in arms smuggling.. THEN the FBI might be interested
Post by: Skysophrenic on Mon, 11 July 2016, 11:52:03
1. Original orders (PM's with confirmation from gutz)
2. Pics of anything you received (and list out, timestamp as well)
3. Any tracking info (heh, hopeful wish)
4. payment details (black out/blank out personal ones. this is a confirmation of payment. )
Last update will happen then. After Friday/saturday (depending on trimezone) I will disregard any other submissions. Following week, new database that will match up user(s) of Ordered vs Received. Think... match.com. You're all going on dates. You guys can then sort out who gets what if anything, and how you will arrange your shipping to each other. I will not mediate, I will not care if you personally get screwed over - I can't punish nor reward behavior.
I haven't posted recently, but I've been following. I don't find it worth while to post anymore. The utter cesspool of anger, stupidity, and utter condescending entitlement or ignorance isn't worth my time.
And quite frankly I don't care about people here enough. Mostly the latter. I'm just following through with the job I set out to do.
Those of you guys who have cooperated, thanks for your help. To the other individuals who have given me/others a hard time, sincerely, **** you.
That's all for now.
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 11 July 2016, 12:05:29
The utter cesspool of anger, stupidity, and utter condescending entitlement or ignorance isn't worth my time.
The work that you have done is excellent and it is certainly appreciated by many people.
It is unfortunate that a new Geekhacker fresh from the reddit world would have to wade into this mess, the worst example of vitriol and infantile emotions that I have seen here since the r00t0wrm fiasco what, 5 years ago?
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Mon, 11 July 2016, 21:19:08
I haven't posted recently, but I've been following. I don't find it worth while to post anymore. The utter cesspool of anger, stupidity, and utter condescending entitlement or ignorance isn't worth my time.
i already submitted my proof ages ago.
anyway, thanks for your help, as well. just ignore the trolls.
Post by: kekman on Mon, 11 July 2016, 21:24:13
4 days. Soon (tm). Friday cut off. Submit proof by then.
1. Original orders (PM's with confirmation from gutz)
2. Pics of anything you received (and list out, timestamp as well)
3. Any tracking info (heh, hopeful wish)
4. payment details (black out/blank out personal ones. this is a confirmation of payment. )
Last update will happen then. After Friday/saturday (depending on trimezone) I will disregard any other submissions. Following week, new database that will match up user(s) of Ordered vs Received. Think... match.com. You're all going on dates. You guys can then sort out who gets what if anything, and how you will arrange your shipping to each other. I will not mediate, I will not care if you personally get screwed over - I can't punish nor reward behavior.
I haven't posted recently, but I've been following. I don't find it worth while to post anymore. The utter cesspool of anger, stupidity, and utter condescending entitlement or ignorance isn't worth my time.
And quite frankly I don't care about people here enough. Mostly the latter. I'm just following through with the job I set out to do.
Those of you guys who have cooperated, thanks for your help. To the other individuals who have given me/others a hard time, sincerely, **** you.
That's all for now.
I'm sure that most of the people who have been involved in this issue are very grateful for the effort that you've put into this.
Post by: Darkshado on Mon, 11 July 2016, 21:33:08
4 days. Soon (tm). Friday cut off. Submit proof by then.
1. Original orders (PM's with confirmation from gutz)
2. Pics of anything you received (and list out, timestamp as well)
3. Any tracking info (heh, hopeful wish)
4. payment details (black out/blank out personal ones. this is a confirmation of payment. )
Last update will happen then. After Friday/saturday (depending on trimezone) I will disregard any other submissions. Following week, new database that will match up user(s) of Ordered vs Received. Think... match.com. You're all going on dates. You guys can then sort out who gets what if anything, and how you will arrange your shipping to each other. I will not mediate, I will not care if you personally get screwed over - I can't punish nor reward behavior.
I haven't posted recently, but I've been following. I don't find it worth while to post anymore. The utter cesspool of anger, stupidity, and utter condescending entitlement or ignorance isn't worth my time.
And quite frankly I don't care about people here enough. Mostly the latter. I'm just following through with the job I set out to do.
Those of you guys who have cooperated, thanks for your help. To the other individuals who have given me/others a hard time, sincerely, **** you.
That's all for now.
I'm sure that most of the people who have been involved in this issue are very grateful for the effort that you've put into this.
I know I am.
For the record, still waiting for a box. Canada Post is still running (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-post-union-labour-lock-out-mail-1.3672570), for now.
Regards,
Darkshado
Post by: alh84001 on Tue, 12 July 2016, 01:35:10
I'm sure that most of the people who have been involved in this issue are very grateful for the effort that you've put into this.
Yes, indeed. Thanks to organising a place for us to exchange info I at least made a partial recovery.
(Now if only that AT and green MX would show up.)
Post by: [Lewynlight] on Tue, 12 July 2016, 09:07:01
i'm only hoping for my SP Bumblebee and MX clear stem right now... that's the only one i've seen here. dunno about the rest (grabbag,taihao.. etc)
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 12 July 2016, 12:13:39
I wish all the best in their efforts to get things resolved.
Post by: Khers on Thu, 14 July 2016, 07:07:19
Post by: Skysophrenic on Thu, 14 July 2016, 10:12:51
I'm extending deadline by a few days. Saturday was my data crunching/sorting day, but I'm shifting that to another day in the near future. I need to go have one last drink with my Grandfather.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 14 July 2016, 10:14:23
Anyway, the stuff I did receive has been forwarded to and received by the respective buyers.
That part is important information too, I think. You might want to give proof of your matches to him too! :thumb:
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 14 July 2016, 10:48:12
I'm extending deadline by a few days.
I need to go have one last drink with my Grandfather.
Good idea about the deadline, I paid via Western Union 10 weeks ago today, so I am still holding out a glimmer of hope.
If you are saying that your grandfather is nearing the end of life, take a little recorder and squeeze a few stories out of him. I have a direct oral family history dating back to 1796 and it is important to carry real flesh experiences forward as we move rapidly into the digital age.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Wed, 20 July 2016, 11:50:46
Quote
If you are saying that your grandfather is nearing the end of life, take a little recorder and squeeze a few stories out of him. I have a direct oral family history dating back to 1796 and it is important to carry real flesh experiences forward as we move rapidly into the digital age.
Certainly have chronicles of his letters, stacks calligraphy, poems, paintings, artwork, stories and letters he's written to family, friends, and for leisure exists within his bar/wardrobe. Binders, folders and scrolls even of things.
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 20 July 2016, 13:00:33
I am no longer accepting any more submissions.
It will be 11 weeks tomorrow. I went to the PO today and asked them to root around in the back to see if I had a box from Singapore that had been overlooked, but no. Now I suppose that I will have to start accepting the fact that I am probably going to be left empty-handed, but I won't give up completely for another couple of weeks.
Post by: shrubkeys on Wed, 20 July 2016, 19:29:59
Certainly have chronicles of his letters, stacks calligraphy, poems, paintings, artwork, stories and letters he's written to family, friends, and for leisure exists within his bar/wardrobe. Binders, folders and scrolls even of things.
I skimmed down and thought you were talking about berserk here.
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 21 July 2016, 05:40:14
I am no longer accepting any more submissions.
It will be 11 weeks tomorrow. I went to the PO today and asked them to root around in the back to see if I had a box from Singapore that had been overlooked, but no. Now I suppose that I will have to start accepting the fact that I am probably going to be left empty-handed, but I won't give up completely for another couple of weeks.
Sometimes I think it would be better to remain empty-handed than receive some of the crap that has been mailed out.
Post by: chuckdee on Thu, 21 July 2016, 08:43:42
I am no longer accepting any more submissions.
It will be 11 weeks tomorrow. I went to the PO today and asked them to root around in the back to see if I had a box from Singapore that had been overlooked, but no. Now I suppose that I will have to start accepting the fact that I am probably going to be left empty-handed, but I won't give up completely for another couple of weeks.
Sometimes I think it would be better to remain empty-handed than receive some of the crap that has been mailed out.
To that, I received the caps that I was sent incorrectly back through the postal service after receiving the PP reimbursement. Eiji hasn't responded, and indeed, hasn't even been on geekhack, so I decided to take a look at what it actually was. Neither set was complete, and the stabilizers on the keys were not complete- like they'd just been ripped off the boards they were on. There were some relegendables randomly included in the bags- maybe to make up for the missing keys? I wouldn't even want to send this on if Eiji did respond... it's pretty useless, not even worth postage.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Thu, 21 July 2016, 23:05:42
Being one of the first shipments to arrive waaaaaaaay back in the first week of May, I land in an odd spot - some of the items I have received were neither originally listed, nor "claimed"/ordered by others (and provided proof thereof). I certainly don't - basically an ortholinear board of some sort + some keypads. Go figure that Manila air keyboard that I was going to pass onto shrub is basically a box. With more junk inside. If I knew earlier about that I would have posted about that, but alas the shipment wasn't really opened and examined by anyone until it made it here to the US in July.
Post by: ideus on Thu, 21 July 2016, 23:12:01
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 22 July 2016, 05:32:43
Unfortunately, it appears, this will be another example of people scamming people with no consequences at all, at GH. The worst part is that we do not learn our lessons.
The worst part is that we continue to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Post by: SBJ on Fri, 22 July 2016, 05:35:39
I'm new around here, does this sort of thing happen often?Unfortunately, it appears, this will be another example of people scamming people with no consequences at all, at GH. The worst part is that we do not learn our lessons.
The worst part is that we continue to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Post by: kekman on Fri, 22 July 2016, 05:39:31
I'm new around here, does this sort of thing happen often?Unfortunately, it appears, this will be another example of people scamming people with no consequences at all, at GH. The worst part is that we do not learn our lessons.
The worst part is that we continue to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think so, but if you search up "Ivan GB scam" you should find a few results on google
Post by: SBJ on Fri, 22 July 2016, 06:02:02
Just went through the thread. That is rough.I'm new around here, does this sort of thing happen often?Unfortunately, it appears, this will be another example of people scamming people with no consequences at all, at GH. The worst part is that we do not learn our lessons.
The worst part is that we continue to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think so, but if you search up "Ivan GB scam" you should find a few results on google
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 22 July 2016, 06:24:24
I'm new around here, does this sort of thing happen often?Unfortunately, it appears, this will be another example of people scamming people with no consequences at all, at GH. The worst part is that we do not learn our lessons.
The worst part is that we continue to give people the benefit of the doubt.
No, fortunately.
There have been a few high-profile long-term members who have disappeared with a lot of money and/or a lot of keyboard stuff belonging to the community.
Post by: SBJ on Fri, 22 July 2016, 06:30:53
That is of course terrible. I hope to not run in to those people, but I guess if you spend enough time (and money :p ) on here you will eventually.I'm new around here, does this sort of thing happen often?Unfortunately, it appears, this will be another example of people scamming people with no consequences at all, at GH. The worst part is that we do not learn our lessons.
The worst part is that we continue to give people the benefit of the doubt.
No, fortunately.
There have been a few high-profile long-term members who have disappeared with a lot of money and/or a lot of keyboard stuff belonging to the community.
Post by: rootwyrm on Fri, 22 July 2016, 12:43:02
None of these people have suffered any real consequences. Even when it's known they've been banned from other forums for it, they get to sell here. And rarely they'll get 'banned from selling' after the fact. Banning someone who already scammed and ran from further sales is as useful as pissing in the wind.
That's why they keep coming to GH. They know that not only will it work, they will get away with it.
Post by: Skysophrenic on Sun, 24 July 2016, 01:58:26
Post by: shrubkeys on Sun, 24 July 2016, 18:23:24
See new thread.
Located here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83620).