[GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 65% | Closed

[Gnarled]

I really wish there was a prototype of the logo polycarbonate version. I have no idea how the logo will look given you'll be able to see the whole square through the top case.

[mcheddadi]

I think this is the Silver PVD coated BRASS

[Clone6001]

Hello just a quick question.
so i ordered a Full PC case, with pink powder weight, front logo And plate as stated.
and ordered an Additional skeleton plate & PCB.
But it shows up as Additional regular plate.
and skeleton plate shows up as a PCB.
is that a mistake on my end or an error?

For my order it also says additional pcb for my additional plate. I'm guessing it's just a mistake on their end.

[Tiff0]

Joined 🙂🙂🙂

So excited!

[abellp327]

Any sound clips for PC version? Also what's the current weight for PC vs Alu with weight? (exclude the brass)

[peaceperfection]

I've purchased mine, but I'm curious as to what is the default plate? Because I chose my extra to be FR4 thinking that my default plate will be a skeleton plate?

[DeMechanica]

What are the solderable PCB layouts? I can’t see them listed anywhere. Thanks!

[silentHacker]

That looks great!

Can you share the mechanical dimensions please? E.g. size, height, angle, etc.?

[lz2019]

I have jumped in  

One question:
If I remember it right, the solder PCB would support split Space, but both the default skeleton alu plate and the regular plate seem not supporting it. Is the feature removed?

[Koji048]

A little bit confused about the color.

The color of the beige in the Geekhack post and from the fox labs store is totally different.
Wondering which one is close to the real color.

[deedz]

That looks great!

Can you share the mechanical dimensions please? E.g. size, height, angle, etc.?

Agreed!

Went in on this but I’m sure many of us are wondering the typing angle, weight of the board and front height!

[Convergence]

Is the wonderful Lilac colour from the IC not an option? Unfortunate.

[Stompy]

Okay. I’ve just bought it. But would appreciate the plate files for iso as soon as possible please.

Any guidance in ordering plates would be appreciated too thanks, not had to buy my own plates before.

I’m in the uk but would happily ship from wherever necessary. Would want aluminium, fr4, carbon fibre maybe too. I wouldn’t know where to begin looking online for a small custom order for this sort of thing? I tried a quick search but wouldn’t know whats good or not? Sorry and thanks in advance for any help.

Unless you have any iso prototypes that you would be willing to sell to me?

Other than that, great looking board, can’t wait!

[uby]

Does anyone know what's the hotswap pcb layout? I can't find it anywhere.

[Stompy]

Does anyone know what's the hotswap pcb layout? I can't find it anywhere.

I remember reading somewhere that hotswap is ansi, and solder supports *multiple layouts*. Pausing Taeha’s stream showed iso support and split left shift. Can’t remember if split backspace? No split space.

[L4ll1g470r]

Okay. I’ve just bought it. But would appreciate the plate files for iso as soon as possible please.

Any guidance in ordering plates would be appreciated too thanks, not had to buy my own plates before.

I’m in the uk but would happily ship from wherever necessary. Would want aluminium, fr4, carbon fibre maybe too. I wouldn’t know where to begin looking online for a small custom order for this sort of thing? I tried a quick search but wouldn’t know whats good or not? Sorry and thanks in advance for any help.

Unless you have any iso prototypes that you would be willing to sell to me?

Other than that, great looking board, can’t wait!

I’ve understood that most of our fellow Europeans (I’m still counting you in) are using Laserboost for plates. Aluminium and brass thy can get you, don’t know about th others.

[mariachiforhire]

Is there a way to  see what the colors look like? I was excited for the GB but the lack of oversight and knowing what color is which makes it confusing.

At least tell us what would be the color schemes for the prototypes posted here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=111364.0

[JadeRegalia]

If I want to use this board with ALPS switches, do any of the plates have ALPS stabilizer support? What's the expectation here to deal with longer ALPS keys?

[NixieTea]

I really wish there was a prototype of the logo polycarbonate version. I have no idea how the logo will look given you'll be able to see the whole square through the top case.

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[Stompy]

Okay. I’ve just bought it. But would appreciate the plate files for iso as soon as possible please.

Any guidance in ordering plates would be appreciated too thanks, not had to buy my own plates before.

I’m in the uk but would happily ship from wherever necessary. Would want aluminium, fr4, carbon fibre maybe too. I wouldn’t know where to begin looking online for a small custom order for this sort of thing? I tried a quick search but wouldn’t know whats good or not? Sorry and thanks in advance for any help.

Unless you have any iso prototypes that you would be willing to sell to me?

Other than that, great looking board, can’t wait!

I’ve understood that most of our fellow Europeans (I’m still counting you in) are using Laserboost for plates. Aluminium and brass thy can get you, don’t know about th others.

Ideal, thanks. Will look into it

[HappyB0T]

Interested in picking this up but not sure what color is what. Since we can't change our orders after the fact it would be really nice to have clarification here.

[bukowski]

Confusing order form but I bought one. Lets see how the final product will look like.

[srhdt]

Hello just a quick question.
so i ordered a Full PC case, with pink powder weight, front logo And plate as stated.
and ordered an Additional skeleton plate & PCB.
But it shows up as Additional regular plate.
and skeleton plate shows up as a PCB.
is that a mistake on my end or an error?

I think there might have been an error in your order. I ordered mine with an extra PCB and an extra plate, and mine was $45 less than yours. It looks like you got charged for 2 extra PCBs for some reason.

Edit: I'm referring to the order picture in your post, which didn't get quoted.

[senter]

Does additional pcb also come with extra daughter board?

Yes

[senter]

Hi Senter,


Would it be possible to buy an extra log in different color?  I would love to do a 2-tone board like the lilac sample you had in the original post but the only way we can do that now is if we could buy another logo.

I may be able to sell extra logos after GB orders are all delivered.
For the current group buy, I can't open this option.
Although there are some limits, the options provided in this GB is already much more than most others provide. Handling so many options is an extremely challenging task because many things can go wrong. I won't risk on making anything more flexible in case I mess up something or make the lead time even longer.

[senter]

Only the Hotswap PCB has in per switch LED or Solderable PCB also has it as well?

I'd like to know this as well. Do you have any pictures of the hot swap board?

solderable PCBs do not come with LEDs

[Lizcuits]

Please consolidate all of your group buy information onto this page and the product page. This is an extremely difficult group buy to navigate and a lot of the information is unclear as it's presented currently. It's honestly so bad I wouldn't be upset if you refunded everyone who purchased so far and restart the GB when you get everything set up better.

It's currently impossible to be certain of what color is which, there's very little information for what you're actually getting (as you can see by almost every comment on this thread so far), and finding proto pictures (that should be on this page and the product page) is split across looking at the zfrontier page (not linked here) and the IC thread (also not linked here).

There is no clear photograph or render of the front of the keyboard on the GB thread or the Product page. The only one is from a low angle and it doesn't show the badge (no info on the badge whatsoever in that case without digging through other sources).

There is no information on the layout of the PCB, for either the solderable layout or the hotswap layout.

The products provided to streamers are not the same as what you get by default, which is confusing to some.

edit: I also just noticed all of the examples of the polycarb builds are built without a PCB so the underside appearance is misrepresented. I have no idea why this was done this way, unless the PC just looks really bad with the PCB installed? These protos are also built with plates that aren't offered (it appears to be some sort of a sandblasted pink aluminum and brass plate? Not the "skeleton plate" that is unclearly offered as a default)

More

All this on top of the "Don't even bother asking me to change your order, it will be ignored" is really just not a good look. Seriously consider fixing up your thead and website and letting everyone start over or offer the ability to change orders. This is one of the worst laid out group buys I've ever seen, which is kind of shocking coming from Fox Lab.


This board is gorgeous and people are going to love it, please don't ruin your group buy by making it vague and frustrating to navigate and then offering no support to remedy it.

[prangano]

Can you post hotswap layout and solderable possible layouts diagrams?

[gleneston]

I'd love to pick up this board. Very little to go off of during the ordering process, there should really be more information / pictures.

[NixieTea]

Please consolidate all of your group buy information onto this page and the product page. This is an extremely difficult group buy to navigate and a lot of the information is unclear as it's presented currently. It's honestly so bad I wouldn't be upset if you refunded everyone who purchased so far and restart the GB when you get everything set up better.

It's currently impossible to be certain of what color is which, there's very little information for what you're actually getting (as you can see by almost every comment on this thread so far), and finding proto pictures (that should be on this page and the product page) is split across looking at the zfrontier page (not linked here) and the IC thread (also not linked here).

There is no clear photograph or render of the front of the keyboard on the GB thread or the Product page. The only one is from a low angle and it doesn't show the badge (no info on the badge whatsoever in that case without digging through other sources).

There is no information on the layout of the PCB, for either the solderable layout or the hotswap layout.

The products provided to streamers are not the same as what you get by default, which is confusing to some.

edit: I also just noticed all of the examples of the polycarb builds are built without a PCB so the underside appearance is misrepresented. I have no idea why this was done this way, unless the PC just looks really bad with the PCB installed? These protos are also built with plates that aren't offered (it appears to be some sort of a sandblasted pink aluminum and brass plate? Not the "skeleton plate" that is unclearly offered as a default)

More

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All this on top of the "Don't even bother asking me to change your order, it will be ignored" is really just not a good look. Seriously consider fixing up your thead and website and letting everyone start over or offer the ability to change orders. This is one of the worst laid out group buys I've ever seen, which is kind of shocking coming from Fox Lab.


This board is gorgeous and people are going to love it, please don't ruin your group buy by making it vague and frustrating to navigate and then offering no support to remedy it.

Hard agree. I was originally going to join this GB, but I literally have no idea how the PC board with a logo will look, especially with the pcb not being installed. Kinda hard to justify $600 on a brass upgraded version when I have no idea if it will even look decent. I like Senter's boards. I used to have a Leaf 60, but the information being split across the product page, this thread, the IC thread, and that one zfrontier link makes my head spin. I'd rather just save up for a GB where I generally know what I'm getting before I buy.

[Liub]

Please consolidate all of your group buy information onto this page and the product page. This is an extremely difficult group buy to navigate and a lot of the information is unclear as it's presented currently. It's honestly so bad I wouldn't be upset if you refunded everyone who purchased so far and restart the GB when you get everything set up better.

It's currently impossible to be certain of what color is which, there's very little information for what you're actually getting (as you can see by almost every comment on this thread so far), and finding proto pictures (that should be on this page and the product page) is split across looking at the zfrontier page (not linked here) and the IC thread (also not linked here).

There is no clear photograph or render of the front of the keyboard on the GB thread or the Product page. The only one is from a low angle and it doesn't show the badge (no info on the badge whatsoever in that case without digging through other sources).

There is no information on the layout of the PCB, for either the solderable layout or the hotswap layout.

The products provided to streamers are not the same as what you get by default, which is confusing to some.

edit: I also just noticed all of the examples of the polycarb builds are built without a PCB so the underside appearance is misrepresented. I have no idea why this was done this way, unless the PC just looks really bad with the PCB installed? These protos are also built with plates that aren't offered (it appears to be some sort of a sandblasted pink aluminum and brass plate? Not the "skeleton plate" that is unclearly offered as a default)

More

Show Image

Show Image

All this on top of the "Don't even bother asking me to change your order, it will be ignored" is really just not a good look. Seriously consider fixing up your thead and website and letting everyone start over or offer the ability to change orders. This is one of the worst laid out group buys I've ever seen, which is kind of shocking coming from Fox Lab.


This board is gorgeous and people are going to love it, please don't ruin your group buy by making it vague and frustrating to navigate and then offering no support to remedy it.

Hard agree. I was originally going to join this GB, but I literally have no idea how the PC board with a logo will look, especially with the pcb not being installed. Kinda hard to justify $600 on a brass upgraded version when I have no idea if it will even look decent. I like Senter's boards. I used to have a Leaf 60, but the information being split across the product page, this thread, the IC thread, and that one zfrontier link makes my head spin. I'd rather just save up for a GB where I generally know what I'm getting before I buy.

Exactly the same thought as you two, will give this a pass. I'm sure it'll sell like hotcakes anyway though.

[slg1993]

Please consolidate all of your group buy information onto this page and the product page. This is an extremely difficult group buy to navigate and a lot of the information is unclear as it's presented currently. It's honestly so bad I wouldn't be upset if you refunded everyone who purchased so far and restart the GB when you get everything set up better.

It's currently impossible to be certain of what color is which, there's very little information for what you're actually getting (as you can see by almost every comment on this thread so far), and finding proto pictures (that should be on this page and the product page) is split across looking at the zfrontier page (not linked here) and the IC thread (also not linked here).

There is no clear photograph or render of the front of the keyboard on the GB thread or the Product page. The only one is from a low angle and it doesn't show the badge (no info on the badge whatsoever in that case without digging through other sources).

There is no information on the layout of the PCB, for either the solderable layout or the hotswap layout.

The products provided to streamers are not the same as what you get by default, which is confusing to some.

edit: I also just noticed all of the examples of the polycarb builds are built without a PCB so the underside appearance is misrepresented. I have no idea why this was done this way, unless the PC just looks really bad with the PCB installed? These protos are also built with plates that aren't offered (it appears to be some sort of a sandblasted pink aluminum and brass plate? Not the "skeleton plate" that is unclearly offered as a default)

More

Show Image

Show Image

All this on top of the "Don't even bother asking me to change your order, it will be ignored" is really just not a good look. Seriously consider fixing up your thead and website and letting everyone start over or offer the ability to change orders. This is one of the worst laid out group buys I've ever seen, which is kind of shocking coming from Fox Lab.


This board is gorgeous and people are going to love it, please don't ruin your group buy by making it vague and frustrating to navigate and then offering no support to remedy it.

I agree with all this even though I literally put my order in already anyways!

[Mwilli22]

Hello!  I just bought one of these. First GB and really first kit I’ll need to assemble. In preparation for this, does the hotswap PCB support screw in stabilizers or will I need to get some plate mounted ones?

[Brit]

Please consolidate all of your group buy information onto this page and the product page. This is an extremely difficult group buy to navigate and a lot of the information is unclear as it's presented currently. It's honestly so bad I wouldn't be upset if you refunded everyone who purchased so far and restart the GB when you get everything set up better.

It's currently impossible to be certain of what color is which, there's very little information for what you're actually getting (as you can see by almost every comment on this thread so far), and finding proto pictures (that should be on this page and the product page) is split across looking at the zfrontier page (not linked here) and the IC thread (also not linked here).

There is no clear photograph or render of the front of the keyboard on the GB thread or the Product page. The only one is from a low angle and it doesn't show the badge (no info on the badge whatsoever in that case without digging through other sources).

There is no information on the layout of the PCB, for either the solderable layout or the hotswap layout.

The products provided to streamers are not the same as what you get by default, which is confusing to some.

edit: I also just noticed all of the examples of the polycarb builds are built without a PCB so the underside appearance is misrepresented. I have no idea why this was done this way, unless the PC just looks really bad with the PCB installed? These protos are also built with plates that aren't offered (it appears to be some sort of a sandblasted pink aluminum and brass plate? Not the "skeleton plate" that is unclearly offered as a default)

More

Show Image

Show Image

All this on top of the "Don't even bother asking me to change your order, it will be ignored" is really just not a good look. Seriously consider fixing up your thead and website and letting everyone start over or offer the ability to change orders. This is one of the worst laid out group buys I've ever seen, which is kind of shocking coming from Fox Lab.


This board is gorgeous and people are going to love it, please don't ruin your group buy by making it vague and frustrating to navigate and then offering no support to remedy it.

I agree with all this even though I literally put my order in already anyways!

I agree with everyone as well. I still bought the board, but it felt like I had to do a lot of deciphering on the store page to figure out how to order the right parts. Given that this board has so many components you can mix and match with, I think that you need detailed explanations of everything to avoid confusion. Still a beautiful board though!

[meenacraft]

I also agree with Lizcults, I've been looking forward to this GB for months, and I don't understand why things have been so all over the place. There should be atleast a render for each customizable piece of the board in the colors offered. Makes no sense why someone else in the IC thread had to go to Zfrontier to find pictures of the cases. Also, it really really does not make sense as to WHY the skeleton plate was made the default choice, when none of the streamers you sent it to had it to test out, and there are no sound tests or reviews on its performance. I get wanting to think outside the box and innovate, but this is an expensive board, I feel like more planning should have been involved before making such a drastic change to the kb.

[mvkoto]

I also agree with Lizcults, I've been looking forward to this GB for months, and I don't understand why things have been so all over the place. There should be atleast a render for each customizable piece of the board in the colors offered. Makes no sense why someone else in the IC thread had to go to Zfrontier to find pictures of the cases. Also, it really really does not make sense as to WHY the skeleton plate was made the default choice, when none of the streamers you sent it to had it to test out, and there are no sound tests or reviews on its performance. I get wanting to think outside the box and innovate, but this is an expensive board, I feel like more planning should have been involved before making such a drastic change to the kb.

It all seems like an afterthought. Especially since OP wrote this:

"This time we started a Chinese GB first. The manufacturing has been started for a while. For the international GB, we only need to add the new orders to the queue, so this GB should be smoother than before."

[slg1993]

It all seems like an afterthought. Especially since OP wrote this:

"This time we started a Chinese GB first. The manufacturing has been started for a while. For the international GB, we only need to add the new orders to the queue, so this GB should be smoother than before."

yeah not to speak too much out of ignorance, but I wonder if the fact that it has been going on already for a while forced the deadline up to the point where the international GB had to be started right away; maybe another week or two of prep would've helped but wasn't possible

either way I don't want to be too negative, the board looks beautiful and even though I didn't have exact renders for what I ordered I am still pretty confident in my color choice (e-white top and bottom with dark green middle and plate/badge/weight)

[c0d3r]

Plate mount stabs or PCB  mount stabs?

[thanatic]

Only the Hotswap PCB has in per switch LED or Solderable PCB also has it as well?

I'd like to know this as well. Do you have any pictures of the hot swap board?

solderable PCBs do not come with LEDs

Thank you for the info I needed. Purchased.

[srhdt]

Plate mount stabs or PCB  mount stabs?

Not sure if it's changed but on the prototype build streams it was PCB screw-in stabs.

[c0d3r]

Ah,  Thanks.

[CookieFlow]

Hi Senter,


Would it be possible to buy an extra log in different color?  I would love to do a 2-tone board like the lilac sample you had in the original post but the only way we can do that now is if we could buy another logo.

I may be able to sell extra logos after GB orders are all delivered.
For the current group buy, I can't open this option.
Although there are some limits, the options provided in this GB is already much more than most others provide. Handling so many options is an extremely challenging task because many things can go wrong. I won't risk on making anything more flexible in case I mess up something or make the lead time even longer.

I really hope that you will be able to offer different parts like weights, logo, plates and maybe even things like middle frames as extra after the GB is delivered.

I understand that during the GB all the options make it very complicated to process for you if you allow us to purchase extra parts.
But I feel one of the coolest thing about this board is how you can customize it, but since we can't purchase additional parts that aspect isn't as varied as it could be.

[tsolin01]

I feel contrary to the other posters above and think the information on this page and the site page all explain everything clearly enough for me to understand what each option means. If this was your first custom then maybe I could understand certain things are confusing but the fact that all options are on ONE product instead of adding separate products to the cart makes it very simple. The colors are mostly self explanatory and the images on the product page and site / examples show a good range of possibilities. It's missing a picture view of the layout options but explains things enough for me to know that the layout I want is supported. I think it'll be hard to handhold the lowest common denominator in this case but Senter's done a decent job at it.

[gleneston]

at least include some higher resolution pictures.

[Lizcuits]

I feel contrary to the other posters above and think the information on this page and the site page all explain everything clearly enough for me to understand what each option means. If this was your first custom then maybe I could understand certain things are confusing but the fact that all options are on ONE product instead of adding separate products to the cart makes it very simple. The colors are mostly self explanatory and the images on the product page and site / examples show a good range of possibilities. It's missing a picture view of the layout options but explains things enough for me to know that the layout I want is supported. I think it'll be hard to handhold the lowest common denominator in this case but Senter's done a decent job at it.

The page has since been updated to include one more image of the top of the boards and to include color labels, as well as noting that the hotswap layout is fixed 7u. IMO that's still not enough of the concerns I had addressed, hopefully more changes are made to make the process less confusing.

It's not that it's impossible to figure out, it's that the buying process shouldn't be difficult for the buyer,  and the vendor should never discourage buyers from requesting changes to their order (especially when those changes are caused by the GB being vague and difficult to navigate).

The fact that nearly every comment on this thread to this point has been a question asking for very basic information that should've been provided by default (layouts, typing angle, color examples, proto pics...) is telling enough that this simply was not organized well and that buyers of a $450-700 purchase deserve better than "if you got confused, too bad, I'm going to ignore you."

[Chronicle]

Where can I find renders of the case colors "Light Green Anodizing" and "Red Anodizing"? There should be pictures available for each customizable option (such as close ups for the front logo for each color) to make selections easier, especially if you're expecting people to "take your time and make the decisions carefully"?

[mariachiforhire]

This group buy is a mess. Reddit is also posting the same issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechGroupBuys/comments/mnwt9v/gb_leaf65_april_9_april_16_2021/

Consider addressing everyone's issue and restarting the group buy, it's a lovely design.

[SpaceCowboy]

idk if PVD brass upgrade prices are fair, but man, an additional $99, plus an extra $92 for brass middle-plate makes the board over $600... that's just too steep for me, not to mention I'd have prefered the usual brass/gold color.. 

[Sunra]

Made an account just to comment on this as I'm relatively new to the hobby and was very excited to see this product come up, only to be heavily discouraged by the many issues people have brought up in the thread already. I found the product page very confusing and as such realized that I made a mistake on my order after submitting it. I didn't realize how the middle plate would accent the overall look of the board until looking up a video of a streamer who received a board and as such realized I didn't choose the right color that I wanted. You can argue if you want that this is my fault for not researching it enough, but given the confusing information and lack of pictures on the product page I feel like this may be a common mistake. Despite the fact that the seller apparently doesn't want to provide the most basic customer support in regards to changing order specs, I e-mailed FoxLabs anyway requesting they do so, and if they were unwilling to, to cancel my order so I could resubmit a corrected version. I understood that they said they would charge a cancellation fee and that they would ignore any requests for order changes, but I figured I'd try anyway. They did indeed cancel my order and refunded all but $5, but gave no explanation as to why they refused to simply change a part of the order. I just resubmitted the corrected order a little while ago.

I think the product looks fantastic, otherwise I would not be willing to jump through these hoops and spend the kind of money required for something like this, but this experience has soured me quite a bit. If you are selling a premium niche product that starts at $415 the least you can do is invest in some decent order-form UI/UX or acknowledge that some percentage of your customers are going to have difficulty with the ordering process and act accordingly. To just crap out an incomprehensible order-form, acknowledge that said order-form is confusing, and then tell people you're going to ignore them if they have any type of problem after spending hundreds of dollars is a pretty bad way to treat customers.

I feel contrary to the other posters above and think the information on this page and the site page all explain everything clearly enough for me to understand what each option means. If this was your first custom then maybe I could understand certain things are confusing but the fact that all options are on ONE product instead of adding separate products to the cart makes it very simple. The colors are mostly self explanatory and the images on the product page and site / examples show a good range of possibilities. It's missing a picture view of the layout options but explains things enough for me to know that the layout I want is supported. I think it'll be hard to handhold the lowest common denominator in this case but Senter's done a decent job at it.

As an aside, I think elitist attitudes like this are pretty cancerous to the community and anybody looking to join it. If the entire thread is full of basic questions that are not answered in the product page and not comments about the product itself, that's probably a sign that something is wrong. It's cool that you were able to navigate ordering the item without issues, but the vast majority of people here were not, and acting like we're the "lowest common denominator" when trying to get basic information before dropping half a grand or more on a keyboard is insulting and discourages people from asking questions and trying to learn more about the hobby.

[idolindisguise]

i dont have any complain i just join the GB, lol