G's announcement (not relevant to most geeks)

[chuckdee]

Thanks for posting that- I knew nothing about this!

[nugglets]

2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.

QFT.

Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.

The mods removed posts they deemed "off-topic." Since this is up I'm going to assume it's somehow on topic. Which means I should be able to respond to tell this guy what a monumental ******* he's being without addressing the situation at hand, right? Cool.

The irony here is incredible. This is easily the most spiteful, inflammatory and absolutely ridiculous post I've read on either site and yet you're saying it while talking about how much better you are as a person. Bravo, sir. That is some next level hypocrisy.

Also, you know the guy who made that spreadsheet, asked for PM's of proof and has taken it upon himself to try to give everyone the clearest picture possible of where their stuff ended up so that this cluster**** might end a little better?

http://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal_gone_south/d34hp7k

"I am first and foremost a redditor," he says. One of those dirty "jagoffs" who would never "make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for."

[jaffers]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9

****ing top kek mate

Also, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****

[Floody]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9

****ing top kek mate

Also, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****

I remember that he had Cigarettes in his free stuff post and I guess he just threw them in.

[appleonama]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9

****ing top kek mate

Also, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****

Mod's where is my warning? Too much inequality on this forum. Its cause I'm Mexican, huh?

Anyways, in an attempt to stay on topic, what are the chances of user getting their money back? Many paypal claims on one account is just going to freeze it up and refunds are going to be withheld. Is there a safety net in place on paypals part for a large amount of refunds?

[demik]

confirmed, OP wants to give GHers cancer.

[gtxorb]

Here is a message I wrote to ****wyrm. I haven’t sent it because it is too long to fit into a paypal dispute reply form.

I find that I have been painted into a corner.

I sold everything cheap to clear my house as quickly as possible.

I have not much left because even things that were not paid for, were often just shipped anyway for free.

To refund everyone is impossible. I cannot afford it, and the shipping alone for everyone was $2.8k USD.

So I have to pay $2.8k shipping to lose all my property before everyone is satisfied?

All complainants to date have admitted to paypal that we DID NOT send you garbage or useless things. They were wrong, not rubbish or empty boxes. ****sis's scarface keycaps alone are worth $48-$300 depending on what was put into the box that was sent to you, which I haven't seen.

You paid $162 for keyboards. The keyboard which you have admitted to receiving, cost me over $250 to buy and customize. And you got scarface keycaps also.

Normally the correct way to file complaint is ‘significantly not as described’ but you insisted on telling paypal ‘item is damaged’ instead. Why? Let me guess: you don’t think you can win a complaint if you admitted to getting more than what you paid.

You wanted a full refund without so much as return shipment to my CONUS-located proxy shipper , and you even encouraged ****sis to file a clearly fake complaint.

****sis claims he had no intention to do anything dishonest with his fake complaint that has been dismissed already by paypal. Unfortunately he went on to say that one of the keycaps he paid for, which was supposed to be Row 2, wasn’t Row 2. He kept pressing me for a Row 2 scarface keycap. (I don’t have any scarface anymore, btw.)

Now how would ****sis know with such certainty that he didn’t get a correct Row 2 keycap? I can’t tell by looking at a photo. I could only tell by laying them out in a row and looking at the entire row with one eye closed. That’s how I sorted out my scarface originally.

Obviously ****sis now has scarface in his possession, and he obviously is able to compare. So this guy got his order ok, except for one keycap wrong. And you encouraged him to tell paypal that his credit card got stolen. Do you really work for Wells Fargo as you claim?

Everything is a screwup caused by me asking someone else to help with the packing at a time when I could not do it myself. If you wanted to wait for me to pack personally it would take MONTHS and I didn't want to make people wait. Hell, if I had done the regular geekhack thing like how Dorkvader or Nubbinator does it, I could make people wait 2 years for their stuff. But I couldn't have done this because I long ago promised wife to clear my house by May. I can’t have so many boxes in my house for months, so everything had to go out fast.

Now paypal account is negative $1285.56. I repeat, NEGATIVE. I will not be adding money to this account, end of story.

I reiterate my offer. Send domestically in the same packaging to my US proxy shipper, and they will bulk ship back to me at a far better rate than USPS. That will save you a lot in shipping costs, and I can even warehouse the stuff at their place for months FOC. That warehousing function is very valuable to me because I really cannot host stuff in my house anymore.

Thanks to lack of time off from work during office hours, I haven’t even collected the payments for about half the people who paid by moneygram. The moneygram office will probably think I’m mad, but I’ll just pickup the cash and redirect some to you. I have your name and country, which is all I need for making a moneygram payment.

Alternatively you can continue pursuing your currently destructive route:

1)   You file paypal complaint
2)   Paypal reviews my entire account which is their custom. Most complainants including you have multipart orders, and all orders are for keyboards, keycaps, and keyboard parts.
3)   Paypal rep goes crazy trying to figure out who owes what who is missing what who has gotten what for who. Yeah, same experience as what we had trying to ship out stuff.
4)   Paypal complaints are the tip of the iceberg. Some orders made by bank transfer had 20+ components. Another dozen had at least 10 components. More than half of all orders were made off paypal. If Paypal rep already goes crazy with just reconciling 10 complaints, I could make them extra crazy by sending them my 465MB of photos, records, shipping label printouts, etc. Maybe I’ll print out a few dozen PMs as well, showing how some people changed their orders repeatedly, backed out, came back, changed modes of payment, etc.
5)   Even a buyer-biased company like paypal cannot but help figure that these customers are impossible to satisfy. After reading 3 or 4 complaints Paypal rep decides he has had enough.
6)   Paypal rep decides this is no scam, so he hits paypal’s default button. Everyone must return ship to me, tracked, in order to qualify for refund.
7)   So, just incur the shipping cost, ship everything internationally back to my home. You asked for it. This is also really destructive to me as well, because I will get into severe trouble when packages start showing up in the mail filled with keyboards and parts that were supposed to be forever banished from my house.
   By this point I am never going to put money back into my paypal account. It’s a black hole. I would rather conserve my $2k USD for refunding the people who paid via bank transfer/ moneygram and therefore have no easy recourse if they got substantially lower value than what they paid.
9)   So I get a black mark on my credit statement put there by paypal. That’s unpleasant but tolerable. I’m not going to take out another housing loan in the next 50 years, and I’m never going to buy a car.
10)   And you? You might even get into trouble for buyer fraud. If you choose to send me some feces marked as ‘keyboard’, customs will intercept and I will have official proof to show Paypal that you attempted to keep the keyboard and send me feces.

This is my last geekhack post. My selling experience in March/April was super unpleasant. I am tired of the many unreasonable, sleazy and selfish people on geekhack. Offering people a reasonable compromise doesn’t work. Everyone is all about ME FIRST and F YOU.

The F You attitude I'm seeing so much, is like the ridiculous people who came to me during April, with zero posts and some newly created account, and just said in some curt PM: "You are giving away Model Ms/ Multimeters/ Model F-122s? Here's my address."

As expected, it is the paypal people who are most unreasonable because they know pp is on their side.

Years ago I said I would never do a GB because of the terrible people. I never expected to be doing the equivalent of one myself.

I’m locking this thread so people can see this is intended as a definitive reply.

I know the mods well enough that they can exercise mod powers to reopen this thread if they so wish. But I am 100% sick and tired of geekhack and all the people, so don’t expect me to show up here again. I strongly recommend creating a new Hate On Gutz thread so that all of you can rant.

Last but not least, if you are ever planning a group buy, let me repeat the same advice I've always said: DON'T.

The whole topic never mentioned about anything about bank transfer...... so the money will never refund at all?
I have paid $470, for a useless thing worth $20, and never get a formal feedback, Even I have send out servel PMs to berserk.
Let me guess why, because there is "NO" avenue to file a dispute at all.


If I don't have feedback from YOU-Berserkfan before 23th May, I will authorize anyone who have paid to berserk $10 each for a dispute even they got the right thing.
I am not sure if paypal accept this, but at least it worth a try.
I can provide every single evidence and proof I have.
And being a honest and responsible man, I will collect all dispute info, and make it no more the $470, which I have paid before.
 

[[Lewynlight]]

Here is a message I wrote to ****wyrm. I haven’t sent it because it is too long to fit into a paypal dispute reply form.

I find that I have been painted into a corner.

I sold everything cheap to clear my house as quickly as possible.

I have not much left because even things that were not paid for, were often just shipped anyway for free.

To refund everyone is impossible. I cannot afford it, and the shipping alone for everyone was $2.8k USD.

So I have to pay $2.8k shipping to lose all my property before everyone is satisfied?

All complainants to date have admitted to paypal that we DID NOT send you garbage or useless things. They were wrong, not rubbish or empty boxes. ****sis's scarface keycaps alone are worth $48-$300 depending on what was put into the box that was sent to you, which I haven't seen.

You paid $162 for keyboards. The keyboard which you have admitted to receiving, cost me over $250 to buy and customize. And you got scarface keycaps also.

Normally the correct way to file complaint is ‘significantly not as described’ but you insisted on telling paypal ‘item is damaged’ instead. Why? Let me guess: you don’t think you can win a complaint if you admitted to getting more than what you paid.

You wanted a full refund without so much as return shipment to my CONUS-located proxy shipper , and you even encouraged ****sis to file a clearly fake complaint.

****sis claims he had no intention to do anything dishonest with his fake complaint that has been dismissed already by paypal. Unfortunately he went on to say that one of the keycaps he paid for, which was supposed to be Row 2, wasn’t Row 2. He kept pressing me for a Row 2 scarface keycap. (I don’t have any scarface anymore, btw.)

Now how would ****sis know with such certainty that he didn’t get a correct Row 2 keycap? I can’t tell by looking at a photo. I could only tell by laying them out in a row and looking at the entire row with one eye closed. That’s how I sorted out my scarface originally.

Obviously ****sis now has scarface in his possession, and he obviously is able to compare. So this guy got his order ok, except for one keycap wrong. And you encouraged him to tell paypal that his credit card got stolen. Do you really work for Wells Fargo as you claim?

Everything is a screwup caused by me asking someone else to help with the packing at a time when I could not do it myself. If you wanted to wait for me to pack personally it would take MONTHS and I didn't want to make people wait. Hell, if I had done the regular geekhack thing like how Dorkvader or Nubbinator does it, I could make people wait 2 years for their stuff. But I couldn't have done this because I long ago promised wife to clear my house by May. I can’t have so many boxes in my house for months, so everything had to go out fast.

Now paypal account is negative $1285.56. I repeat, NEGATIVE. I will not be adding money to this account, end of story.

I reiterate my offer. Send domestically in the same packaging to my US proxy shipper, and they will bulk ship back to me at a far better rate than USPS. That will save you a lot in shipping costs, and I can even warehouse the stuff at their place for months FOC. That warehousing function is very valuable to me because I really cannot host stuff in my house anymore.

Thanks to lack of time off from work during office hours, I haven’t even collected the payments for about half the people who paid by moneygram. The moneygram office will probably think I’m mad, but I’ll just pickup the cash and redirect some to you. I have your name and country, which is all I need for making a moneygram payment.

Alternatively you can continue pursuing your currently destructive route:

1)   You file paypal complaint
2)   Paypal reviews my entire account which is their custom. Most complainants including you have multipart orders, and all orders are for keyboards, keycaps, and keyboard parts.
3)   Paypal rep goes crazy trying to figure out who owes what who is missing what who has gotten what for who. Yeah, same experience as what we had trying to ship out stuff.
4)   Paypal complaints are the tip of the iceberg. Some orders made by bank transfer had 20+ components. Another dozen had at least 10 components. More than half of all orders were made off paypal. If Paypal rep already goes crazy with just reconciling 10 complaints, I could make them extra crazy by sending them my 465MB of photos, records, shipping label printouts, etc. Maybe I’ll print out a few dozen PMs as well, showing how some people changed their orders repeatedly, backed out, came back, changed modes of payment, etc.
5)   Even a buyer-biased company like paypal cannot but help figure that these customers are impossible to satisfy. After reading 3 or 4 complaints Paypal rep decides he has had enough.
6)   Paypal rep decides this is no scam, so he hits paypal’s default button. Everyone must return ship to me, tracked, in order to qualify for refund.
7)   So, just incur the shipping cost, ship everything internationally back to my home. You asked for it. This is also really destructive to me as well, because I will get into severe trouble when packages start showing up in the mail filled with keyboards and parts that were supposed to be forever banished from my house.
   By this point I am never going to put money back into my paypal account. It’s a black hole. I would rather conserve my $2k USD for refunding the people who paid via bank transfer/ moneygram and therefore have no easy recourse if they got substantially lower value than what they paid.
9)   So I get a black mark on my credit statement put there by paypal. That’s unpleasant but tolerable. I’m not going to take out another housing loan in the next 50 years, and I’m never going to buy a car.
10)   And you? You might even get into trouble for buyer fraud. If you choose to send me some feces marked as ‘keyboard’, customs will intercept and I will have official proof to show Paypal that you attempted to keep the keyboard and send me feces.

This is my last geekhack post. My selling experience in March/April was super unpleasant. I am tired of the many unreasonable, sleazy and selfish people on geekhack. Offering people a reasonable compromise doesn’t work. Everyone is all about ME FIRST and F YOU.

The F You attitude I'm seeing so much, is like the ridiculous people who came to me during April, with zero posts and some newly created account, and just said in some curt PM: "You are giving away Model Ms/ Multimeters/ Model F-122s? Here's my address."

As expected, it is the paypal people who are most unreasonable because they know pp is on their side.

Years ago I said I would never do a GB because of the terrible people. I never expected to be doing the equivalent of one myself.

I’m locking this thread so people can see this is intended as a definitive reply.

I know the mods well enough that they can exercise mod powers to reopen this thread if they so wish. But I am 100% sick and tired of geekhack and all the people, so don’t expect me to show up here again. I strongly recommend creating a new Hate On Gutz thread so that all of you can rant.

Last but not least, if you are ever planning a group buy, let me repeat the same advice I've always said: DON'T.

The whole topic never mentioned about anything about bank transfer...... so the money will never refund at all?
I have paid $470, for a useless thing worth $20, and never get a formal feedback, Even I have send out servel PMs to berserk.
Let me guess why, because there is "NO" avenue to file a dispute at all.


If I don't have feedback from YOU-Berserkfan before 23th May, I will authorize anyone who have paid to berserk $10 each for a dispute even they got the right thing.
I am not sure if paypal accept this, but at least it worth a try.
I can provide every single evidence and proof I have.
And being a honest and responsible man, I will collect all dispute info, and make it no more the $470, which I have paid before.
 

Hi gtx,

I think it's too late. He wouldn't even answer my PM asking about the confirmation that he's taken my money and about tracking code. Hell, i even sent a thank you for sending the goods that i jokingly wanted for free. It looks like he did do as he said, disappearing from GH once and for all.

****kkkk my monthly allowance 

I guess we must deal with all of this by ourselfes.
I'm seeing that the probability that we will got our refund is nearly close to zero, so.. Let's just send each other's goods when it arrived.

[kekman]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9

****ing top kek mate

Also, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****

thats ****in mint

[SixtyLife]

also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.

filing for a paypal refund now.

[user 18]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal/d353nv9

****ing top kek mate

Also, someone literally got a pack of cigarettes haha what the ****

Mod's where is my warning? Too much inequality on this forum. Its cause I'm Mexican, huh?

Anyways, in an attempt to stay on topic, what are the chances of user getting their money back? Many paypal claims on one account is just going to freeze it up and refunds are going to be withheld. Is there a safety net in place on paypals part for a large amount of refunds?

You definitely got one, I just didn't send out PMs because I was in a rush -- I made a single post here instead. If it means that much to you, I'll go back through and reissue it.

E: Just for clarity's sake, I'll go back now and send out a PM to everyone. Sorry for any confusion.

2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.

QFT.

Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it. Because that's the kind of people they are. They're the kind of people that GH has already banned for being bad excuses for human beings. Hell, being banned from GH is basically a requirement to be a mod.
And people want us to invite the toxic slime the mods already got rid of once, back into the community? No freaking way. It's not bloody happening. Want to watch people quit en masse? Just let them back in. The mods can deal with the ones that sneak past - and I'm sure they will.
What the retardit hivemind says has exactly as much value as their worth as people - none.

The mods removed posts they deemed "off-topic." Since this is up I'm going to assume it's somehow on topic. Which means I should be able to respond to tell this guy what a monumental ******* he's being without addressing the situation at hand, right? Cool.

The irony here is incredible. This is easily the most spiteful, inflammatory and absolutely ridiculous post I've read on either site and yet you're saying it while talking about how much better you are as a person. Bravo, sir. That is some next level hypocrisy.

Also, you know the guy who made that spreadsheet, asked for PM's of proof and has taken it upon himself to try to give everyone the clearest picture possible of where their stuff ended up so that this cluster**** might end a little better?

http://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards/comments/4j7g49/wife_thrown_under_the_keyboard_busanother_gh_deal_gone_south/d34hp7k

"I am first and foremost a redditor," he says. One of those dirty "jagoffs" who would never "make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for."

I only removed posts made after my second comment above, because those were the ones that should have known better. While we generally let people get away with a bit more in off topic, it's expected that if we've stepped in and asked a topic of conversation to be stopped, that it be stopped. The posts removed were those that continued on after said stop was called. This line of discussion is not appropriate for this thread. If you have a problem with another user, take it to PMs or take it offsite.

When cleaning up threads, I have personally tried recently to leave as much as possible intact, in response to user complaints that we were removing too much. However, in order for us to be able to leave things up, you cannot continue dragging back up topics after being asked to stop.

For the final time, be respectful to other users. That goes for everyone.

[Venatorious]

Guys don't file for a claim yet, berserk needs time to sort through the massive amount of PM's he got.  I can give more reasoning soon into this. 

Seriously by filing claim you hurt the situation.  You have 180 days to do so, give him a couple days.    Please at least try to let berserk fix the issue.

[demik]

wtf you mean "them"

the problem is OP just dropping his responsibilities because he's irresponsible.

[user 18]

Is that against the rules? But really why did I get a warning for being off topic on an off topic thread? that seems contradicting.

The off topic section is merely a section for topics that are not better suited for other areas of the site. While the moderation team tends to allow more leeway in the off topic section, each individual thread still has a topic of conversation. In this case, there had been multiple posts requesting that this thread stay on topic, seeing as this is a particularly serious thread, despite it being in the off topic section.

Also, you quite literally asked for a warning:

Mod's where is my warning? Too much inequality on this forum. Its cause I'm Mexican, huh?

Now, let's keep this thread for discussion of berserkfan's sale and the results thereof.

E: The above is a reply to a removed post. I have removed several more posts for being off topic.

[user 18]

Is that against the rules? But really why did I get a warning for being off topic on an off topic thread? that seems contradicting.

The off topic section is merely a section for topics that are not better suited for other areas of the site. While the moderation team tends to allow more leeway in the off topic section, each individual thread still has a topic of conversation. In this case, there had been multiple posts requesting that this thread stay on topic, seeing as this is a particularly serious thread, despite it being in the off topic section.

Also, you quite literally asked for a warning:

Mod's where is my warning? Too much inequality on this forum. Its cause I'm Mexican, huh?

Now, let's keep this thread for discussion of berserkfan's sale and the results thereof.

You threatened to send out warnings and so I was wondering as to why you didn't stick to your word. I was calling you out for not actually sending one, but apparently you did. or is this a race thing?

Warnings were given in the backend of the site. I just neglected to tick the box that sends out a notification as I had several people to deal with and I was in a hurry. I have since corrected that error. If you want to discuss this topic any further please send me a PM or start a separate thread. I will be removing any further posts on this topic made in this thread.

E: As above, a reply to a removed post. Warnings have been given to those whose posts have been removed.

[timerwin63]

Guys don't file for a claim yet, berserk needs time to sort through the massive amount of PM's he got.  I can give more reasoning soon into this. 

Seriously by filing claim you hurt the situation.  You have 180 days to do so, give him a couple days.    Please at least try to let berserk fix the issue.

I don't see why we wouldn't file claims. I put in a dispute and explained my situation on PayPal. Guts sent me a response very quickly that was more or less "Go ahead and escalate this, I won't take it personally when PP issues you a refund." I can quote the actual exchange if people would like.

My point is that it seems unlikely that he'll be responding to PMs on the forums from now on, and opening a dispute is probably the only way to get a straightforward answer about anything.

That being said, I can't emphasize this enough:

If/when you open a dispute, treat him like a human being. Explain that you understand that people make mistakes, and explain your situation in a clear and concise way.

Don't talk down to him, or explain why he needs to fix it. He has acknowledged that he messed up, and I'm willing to bet that his responses thus far have been based on poor judgement and a lot of stress. He has to understand full well that what's happened is his fault, directly or otherwise.

He's still only human. Treat him like one. Don't back him into a corner and don't force him to get defensive. It'll make a night and day difference in the response(s) you get.

[YJL]

Hello, I quote my post from the other thread that has since been locked.

Hello everyone,

Been a lurker and still quite new to the keyboard scene but decided to jump on the sale when I saw that berserkfan is a Singaporean for cheap shipping. I ordered the following from him:

C08. KBT Pure, unlubed 78g clears, blue theme aluminum casing and cable, SIP modded RGB LEDs w extra translucent keycaps, $100

Thick PBT colored grab bag $10 for 80
Tai Hao sets red and black $8 x2 = $16
Teensy 2.0 no pins $14

and received the following:

SA row 3 1u legends and blanks
SA row 2/4 legends and blanks
R4 and R5 black blanks
hyperfuse DCS purple on gray 1x teal on dark gray mods
small bag of SA blank keycaps
small bags of 3-5 keycaps of variety
2 Teensy 2.0
14 bags of white on black keycaps (some are labeled traditional cherry WOB)

I see that there is an excel spreadsheet that is being collated but proof of purchase etc is needed hence I'm posting to ask who should I be PMing for I havent really been following the thread. Unfortunately I paid via local money transfer so I don't think there's any avenue to file a dispute for me so hopefully I can still get a refund.

Anyone can give me a quick estimate of how much these are worth? Thank you

[timerwin63]

Hello, I quote my post from the other thread that has since been locked.

-snip-

Anyone can give me a quick estimate of how much these are worth? Thank you

Please don't come in here looking for valuation. Right now, we're trying to figure how who has what and how to get the right things to the right people. Deciding to resell what you got would be a poor idea this early, I think.

[chuckdee]

Hello, I quote my post from the other thread that has since been locked.

-snip-

Anyone can give me a quick estimate of how much these are worth? Thank you

Please don't come in here looking for valuation. Right now, we're trying to figure how who has what and how to get the right things to the right people. Deciding to resell what you got would be a poor idea this early, I think.

It could be for his claim,  as I know gutz is using the value in his defense.

Guys don't file for a claim yet, berserk needs time to sort through the massive amount of PM's he got.  I can give more reasoning soon into this. 

Seriously by filing claim you hurt the situation.  You have 180 days to do so, give him a couple days.    Please at least try to let berserk fix the issue.

How so? Filing a claim further puts pressure on him,  locks down his account so he can't parcel out money as he wants,  makes him unable to receive or make payments from anyone, reinforces our aims as Paypal sees how massive the effort is.  What is your counter to the points made above?

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

[YJL]

Hello, I quote my post from the other thread that has since been locked.

-snip-

Anyone can give me a quick estimate of how much these are worth? Thank you

Please don't come in here looking for valuation. Right now, we're trying to figure how who has what and how to get the right things to the right people. Deciding to resell what you got would be a poor idea this early, I think.

It could be for his claim,  as I know gutz is using the value in his defense

Ah I just wanted to get a sense of what I received. Not really intending to resell these really if the caps I got belongs to someone else I would gladly make arrangements. Hell I'm headed to the states sometime next month so it may be even better.

Can't really file a claim since I paid via bank transfer so there's nothing I can do really but hope he offers a reasonable refund.

[rootwyrm]

Guys don't file for a claim yet, berserk needs time to sort through the massive amount of PM's he got.  I can give more reasoning soon into this. 

Seriously by filing claim you hurt the situation.  You have 180 days to do so, give him a couple days.    Please at least try to let berserk fix the issue.

How so? Filing a claim further puts pressure on him,  locks down his account so he can't parcel out money as he wants,  makes him unable to receive or make payments from anyone, reinforces our aims as Paypal sees how massive the effort is.  What is your counter to the points made above?

Venatorious, this is literally the worst thing to say, and completely false. It is dead wrong and never say it again.

If he wanted to make things right, he HAS TO HAVE A CLAIM FROM BOTH PEOPLE. This creates a record saying "hey, X has Y's package" and "hey, Y has X's package." For a legitimate seller, this is critical because they can then respond to Paypal "hey, yeah, my bad. This person has this package, this person has that package. I want them to ship them back and then I'll get them the right one." That's how it's supposed to work.

Stop treating beserkfan as a legitimate seller. We already know he sold the Corsair keyboard at least twice, and gods only know how many other items. There's no way he had enough items to cover everything he sold. Even if his intentions were good at the outset? It's on him to properly track what's sold and not, simple as that. He failed to do so.

[Skysophrenic]

Hey Guys,

TLDR: **** comcast.

Way to go, home internet blew up. Now that I'm back at work I'll be reading everything that transpired over the weekened again to get back to updating and reaching out to people.

Once again, the ask is:

If you have a claim, please provide proof of communication, in particular confirmation on items that you and beserkfan agree to have a sale on. If you have received tracking or not, please make that clear as well. If you have received a package, please take a picture/album of the items you have gotten along with a timestamp. The more concrete catalog we have, the better understanding of where the stuff is. The same pictures can be used as proof for claims later.

Also - from now on, no proof = I will no add it. There are more posts that just show up and even after reaching out in pm's I get no reply, so I'm not going to add those anymore.

[pwade3]

A little late on this, but I'm pretty sure reddit is just mostly noobies afraid to post over here, not some forum equivalent of Australia where rulebreakers get sentenced to.

(Ripster aside, obviously)

[HoffmanMyster]

A little late on this, but I'm pretty sure reddit is just mostly noobies afraid to post over here, not some forum equivalent of Australia where rulebreakers get sentenced to.

(Ripster aside, obviously)

There are also lots of experienced people that just don't want to browse a different format forum than reddit. The whole discussion is silly though.

[Tyr]

You can say about Reddit what you want, threads like these are why I'm mostly there and not here. I feel for Berzerkfan, I really do. You could tell he was on the edge before and this whole thing has turned into a huge ****-show. But I don't see how screaming and being abusive (even drawing in completely irrelevant vendettas, like v reddit) is going to solve any of this.

Instead lets be positive: a lot of stuff obviously went out and so might be recoverable among ourselves and if cooler heads prevail maybe at least we can keep a dialog going to resolve things if not to everyone's satisfaction then at least to where people are in a better situation than they find themselves in now. Because I hate to break it to folks, but if Paypal's your last hope you're already ****ed.

[Signature]

(even drawing in completely irrelevant vendettas, like v reddit)

You can say about Reddit what you want, threads like these are why I'm mostly there and not here.

Srsly tho, if you mess up a sale, it's your responsibility. Of course Bezerkfan is in a tough spot, but you have to be organized to make such a big sale, and he clearly wasn't. He brought all this upon himself and I can see how people are mad over not getting promised items.

[chuckdee]

You can say about Reddit what you want, threads like these are why I'm mostly there and not here. I feel for Berzerkfan, I really do. You could tell he was on the edge before and this whole thing has turned into a huge ****-show. But I don't see how screaming and being abusive (even drawing in completely irrelevant vendettas, like v reddit) is going to solve any of this.

Instead lets be positive: a lot of stuff obviously went out and so might be recoverable among ourselves and if cooler heads prevail maybe at least we can keep a dialog going to resolve things if not to everyone's satisfaction then at least to where people are in a better situation than they find themselves in now. Because I hate to break it to folks, but if Paypal's your last hope you're already ****ed.

How so?  They've been responsive to my queries, and are deciding... it's just taking a while.  And if settled to my satisfaction (which I think it will be- the items are clearly not what I ordered), then that's a better outcome for me, as my item was pretty surely oversold.

It still remains: it was a business transaction, he received the monies in full.  Anything else- including him spending money on shipping without notifying those that he was shipping to in order to make arrangements for the higher price- is irrelevant.  I'm not unsympathetic, however his continued avoidance even to simple, reasonable, queries- i.e "What do you plan to do to rectify this situation?"- is eroding any sympathy I may have.

I have sold a lot of things in many different venues- usually after a hobby has run its course, or I have no space for what I've purchased.  I've had some good experiences (boardgamegeek and rpggeek), and some bad ones (ebay).  But I realize that it's my choice to sell, and I need to handle it as a business transaction, no matter how things might not be as I want them to be, and document everything, and don't make assumptions. 

Anything else other than the facts of the transaction, and the need to make things right are irrelevant at this point to anyone attempting to honestly rectify the situation, IMO.

[Tyr]

How so?  They've been responsive to my queries, and are deciding... it's just taking a while.  And if settled to my satisfaction (which I think it will be- the items are clearly not what I ordered), then that's a better outcome for me, as my item was pretty surely oversold.

Paypal are not exactly known for their support of the little guy i disputed transactions. Since we're talking about a sale between two persons, as opposed to businesses, there's a limit to what can be done. There's no right of return, what's actually in the boxes being shipped to and fro is being taken on faith (from Paypal's perspective), etc. What's more they already have their money and can only lose by arbitrating between individuals. I hope it works for you, but I wouldn't expect too much.

Srsly tho, if you mess up a sale, it's your responsibility. Of course Bezerkfan is in a tough spot, but you have to be organized to make such a big sale, and he clearly wasn't. He brought all this upon himself and I can see how people are mad over not getting promised items.

Getting mad is natural but doesn't actually fix things. Usually it does exactly the opposite in fact.
I'm in this thing for about $250 myself but better to focus on what might make things better than on what feels good but ultimately makes things worse.

[chuckdee]

How so?  They've been responsive to my queries, and are deciding... it's just taking a while.  And if settled to my satisfaction (which I think it will be- the items are clearly not what I ordered), then that's a better outcome for me, as my item was pretty surely oversold.

Paypal are not exactly known for their support of the little guy i disputed transactions. Since we're talking about a sale between two persons, as opposed to businesses, there's a limit to what can be done. There's no right of return, what's actually in the boxes being shipped to and fro is being taken on faith (from Paypal's perspective), etc. What's more they already have their money and can only lose by arbitrating between individuals. I hope it works for you, but I wouldn't expect too much.

There's Purchase protection.  And it applies to all of these orders- as long as you didn't send it friends and family.  And he already has a strike against him as he charged a 10% premium for paypal, which is a big no-no in the seller rules, called out with it's own high level bullet point.  I'm not sure of your experiences with Paypal, but mine have been more positive than you make it out to be.  And Paypal is notoriously buyer-centric.

You might want to check the policy page on buyer protection to see just how wrong you are on current policies.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

I go strictly by facts and experiences, not on suppositions.  This is strictly business, not personal.

Relevant portions of their policy:

13.1 Types of Problems Covered. PayPal Purchase Protection (also known as PayPal Buyer Protection) helps you if you encounter either of these problems:

You did not receive the item you paid for with PayPal – “Item Not Received” (INR), or
You received an item you paid for with PayPal but it is “Significantly Not as Described” (SNAD) (as described below)
If your problem is a transaction that you did not authorize, please use this form to report the unauthorized transaction.

An item is “Significantly Not as Described” if it is materially different from what the Seller described in the item listing. Here are some examples:

• You received a completely different item. For example, you purchased a book and received a DVD or an empty box.
• The condition of the item was misrepresented. For example, the description when you bought the item said “new” and the item was used.
• The item was advertised as authentic but is not authentic.
• The item is missing major parts or features which were not disclosed in its description when you bought the item.
• You purchased three items from a Seller but only received two.
• The item was damaged during shipment.

An item is not Significantly Not as Described if it is materially similar to the Seller’s item listing description. Here are some examples:

• The defect in the item was correctly described by the Seller.
• The item was properly described but you didn't want it after you received it.
• The item was properly described but did not meet your expectations.
• The item has minor scratches and was listed as used condition.

13.2 Eligibility Requirements.

To be eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection you must meet all of the following requirements:

• Have an Account in good standing.
• Pay for the eligible item from your Account.
• Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments – like a deposit followed by a final payment – are not eligible.
• Open a Dispute within 180 Days of the date you sent the payment, then follow the online dispute resolution process described below under Dispute Resolution. For Pay After Delivery transactions you must open your Dispute within 180 Days of the date of your transaction.
• You have not received a recovery related to such purchase from another source.

13.3 Ineligible Items. Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

• Real estate, including residential property
• Businesses
• Vehicles, including motor vehicles, motorcycles, caravans, aircraft and boats
• Significantly Not As Described issues for Custom-made items
• Items prohibited by the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
• For INR claims, items which you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including items bought through In-Store Checkout at the retail point of sale
• Industrial machinery used in manufacturing
• Items equivalent to cash, including prepaid or gift cards
• PayPal Direct Payments
• Virtual Terminal Payments
• Personal Payments

Even if your payment is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection, you can file a Dispute and try to resolve the issue directly with the Seller; however, PayPal will generally not find in your favor if you escalate a Dispute to a Claim for an item which is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection.

13.4 Coverage Amount. If you are eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection and PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs – with no cap on coverage.

PayPal will not reimburse you for the return shipping costs that you incur to return a Significantly Not As Described item to the Seller or other party specified by PayPal. If the Seller presents evidence that they delivered the goods to your address, PayPal may find in favor of the Seller for an Item Not Received claim even if you did not receive the goods.

Unless you have references to the contrary, I'd suggest not spreading such things.

[shrubkeys]

Paypal are not exactly known for their support of the little guy i disputed transactions. Since we're talking about a sale between two persons, as opposed to businesses, there's a limit to what can be done. There's no right of return, what's actually in the boxes being shipped to and fro is being taken on faith (from Paypal's perspective), etc. What's more they already have their money and can only lose by arbitrating between individuals. I hope it works for you, but I wouldn't expect too much.

Not sure why you say that. Frankly, I feel safer than even just using a credit card. From Paypal's policy: "If your transaction qualifies for Purchase Protection, we’ll reimburse you for the full purchase price plus any original shipping costs." Has nothing to do with the size (or the solvency) of the seller. If anything they're over-protective of buyers - sellers can get screwed pretty easily if buyers commit fraud.

[Skysophrenic]

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82065.msg2171031#msg2171031

Let's address this latest bull****, and explain why I've now escalated to Paypal and I am absolutely not going to return the keyboard or keycaps to beserkfan under any circumstances.

One, I got in touch with Meiosis after he pinged me believing they were possibly his keycaps. I found his name labeled on the bag. I took photos so that he could see I had his keycaps. I then told him that I would pay out of my pocket to ship them to him, because it was CONUS and a very small package. In other words, me being the nice guy that I am, covering beserkfan's ass on this one. I said nothing more than that he should consider filing a claim.
Meiosis' Keycaps: https://imgur.com/a/xcjgX

Why did I offer to do this? Because beserkfan asked me to ship this to a proxy at my expense, at which point he stated he would not send Scarpia his keyboard or a refund. Because he felt, and I quote, "he got too much stuff." Well no **** he got a ton of stuff - he paid a lot of money for it and the shipping. Returning the keyboard to the seller with the knowledge that he is defrauding the purchaser? Especially when I know who the purchaser is? That makes me a party to the fraud. I could be charged criminally.
Here's Scarpia's keyboard, and the keycaps, and somebody's rubber feet: https://imgur.com/a/GV8Vm

What I wanted, simply, is to know where my keyboards that I paid for were and how we would handle Scarpia's issue in a LEGITIMATE, LEGAL fashion. Simple as that. I did not bring up Meiosis because frankly, I don't trust beserkfan would ship those keycaps out either. So again, being the nice guy that I am and as you all saw, I said I would ensure those keycaps got delivered to their proper, legal owner as soon as possible.

If I ship out all of these items, what am I left with? Absolutely nothing. I will not be keeping one single part I received, because none of them are mine. No matter how far you stretch the wording, these items belong to other people. Period. Not only that, but I do not want zinc keycaps or a 60% board. I hate 60%. Do you know what beserkfan wanted me to do in exchange for nothing?
Pay out of my pocket for shipping to an unverified proxy in the US. Where he would not ship the items to the purchasers, nor would he refund the purchasers. And if I didn't do that, he threatened to insist I ship it to Singapore - at a cost of more than $100. Out of pocket. So yes, he was demanding I pay $100 for the princely reward of absolutely ****ing nothing!!

That's not how it works. And yes, I see now that Paypal ****ed up and marked it as Damaged. That is not how I filed it. I filed it as "WRONG ITEM" but apparently the site didn't take. Since I had no visibility into that, I had no idea. I've asked Paypal to correct it as part of the escalation. Nothing in the package was damaged, everything was well packed, and everything is still safe.
As it is, even if I reverse the charges, this is going to cost me money. Period. I have keycaps that need to go to their legal owner. I have a keyboard that somehow has to go to ****ing Sweden. This is not how I want to spend my weekend. It is not even in the same universe as what I want to be doing. Dealing with the angsty ragequitting BS from someone who refuses to accept responsibility for errors he already admitted he made? I do that enough at work. I have not one single desire to do it here.

Oh, and no beserkfan didn't send what he said to me. He sent nothing at all. My last PM from him was May 13th; my last Paypal communication was me telling him that expecting me to eat $100 in shipping and be a party to fraud was not an acceptable solution. All I wanted was for him to do something so very, stupidly, ridiculously reasonable: find out who has my keyboards and arrange correct shipping to me (which will cost less than I paid STILL), and arrange a way for me to get Scarpia and Meiosis their stuff.
Which speaks untold volumes about how he is handling this and how he intends to handle it. So now tomorrow, I'm going to have to bloody call Paypal, make sure they fixed the filing, and explain to them that the seller is being completely uncooperative, making absurd demands in violation of Paypal TOS, knows and has already admitted he screwed up, and has publicly stated that not only did he screw up he has no intention of issuing refunds or honoring his financial obligations.
There is literally no word for what he is doing other than criminal fraud. That's what it is, plain and simple. Don't even think of calling it anything else.

And I am now going to drink too much whiskey and go to bed. There are no words for how pissed off and utterly disappointed I am with Gutz. None at all.

Bit late to the party, appologise folks. I'm working on updating. But this is my sentiments exactly. I myself am $400 shot in the dark. I have gotten items which do not belong to me, and I will make sure they will end up to the person who bought them. In the case of double sales, I will be more than happy to entertain a mediation to determine what happens, if anything. I am already spending more than than I would like to try to keep track of ****, to chase down people who want to help and frankly, I know I will probably get nothing out of it because I paid with moneygram instead of paypal. At the end of the day, I'm still shot $400, more because of extended shipping, time, effort, and lots of effort.

So beserkfan, I am going to make sure that for $400, I'm going after you in spite, and enjoy it because I didn't spend $400 to get nothing.

[Skysophrenic]

I'd like to ask for this thread to be locked for roughly two more days because le ledditors and MD apologists(thinking about three people in particular, you know who you are) are talking a lot about this right now and will pour oil into fire to make community-ran GB's look worse. Just look at some of the comments to this thread outside of GH to see that already being done. The topic needs calm and civil discussion, not drama escalators, and most people that aren't actually affected will forget by then.

1. This isn't a groupbuy (I know a lot of people are misunderstanding that though)
2. Who the **** cares what reddit and massdrop think? I don't. If they want something bad enough, they can join a groupbuy. If they don't want to, nobody's forcing them. We shouldn't like change and mold our community to make it look good for people that aren't even part of it.

I agree.  This is a thread for this issue, and you're not going to please everyone all the time trying to minimize it.

What I'd personally like is for this thread to be retitled something more appropriate, so those affected can come here to find out what happened, and communicate with each other.  There are those that are affected that don't even have any idea of what's going on, and the thread title doesn't give any indication.  Berserkfan/Gutz has said he's abandoning thread, and to a large extent, the problem he created.  Handle our problems through official channels, and then communicate about what's been done/what can be done, and come together as a community is what I'd like and advocate for.

Do you think the jagoffs on reddit would make the least effort to ensure people got the order they paid for? Hell no. Absolutely not. They'd run around gloating about it and keep it.

This part is part of what is making the two so divisive, and I personally don't buy into it.  Air_tree was on this board mostly, and mind_funeral on reddit.  But mind_funeral went out of his way to help air_tree.  Doesn't that say that enthusiasts are just people- and there are good ones and bad ones?

I am mainly on reddit. I joined GH precisely because I saw beserkfan's sale. So take that for what you will.

[phosphoric]

got a set of thin pbt iso caps and some random sa caps. i thought maybe i was lucky and got excluded from the massive ****up, but nope lol.

[chuckdee]

got a set of thin pbt iso caps and some random sa caps. i thought maybe i was lucky and got excluded from the massive ****up, but nope lol.

Can you post an image of what you got for posterity's sake?

[Skysophrenic]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing

updated doc a bit, will continue after dinner. Working on received next - once again, as packages come in please please please please speak up to say what you got.

It was also said by beserkfan that a ton of stuff has been thrown away - it is unlikely that we will ever be able to account for everything, but for every person that speaks up and posts, with proof, about what they have ordered (Pm's screen shots), payment (black out details), and received items (list + timestamps, and any other details such as XYZ's order or whatever..) then the better chances we have of being able to account for everything.

Like some have said - Do not send things to each other yet, make sure you file claims with paypal (if you've paid with it), and make sure you only send after given the go-ahead. There are plenty of problems that we need to solve and the only way to do so is to be civil and clearly communicate often, communicate clearly.

Finally, let's not continue to bash beserkfan or each other. Instead just work things out because clearly he's not going to. So get what you can back from him, file complaints, file everything. His whining only hurts his case, and by being the better person holding a better posture, you'll find that the scales will tip towards you in claims. For others, lets see what we can work with on Moneygram or other methods. BUT KEEP OUR SOLUTIONS LEGAL, LEGITIMATE, AND CIVIL. I urge, I can't force, but I urge everyone be forthcoming and honest. I will be pm'ing more and following up with some others that might have been involved, and some of the folks that I am missing details to.

I am also going to be looking into possibly straight up fraud (selling items he didn't have) as there seems to be a pretty big coincidence on "themed" keyboards - which so happened to have been unlisted.

I also find it funny how beserkfan has not responded to everyone, only a select few. Not to mention after being called out repetitively, pm'ed, and publicly shown that there are indeed people tracking his shipments, I'm surprised he hasn't tried to reach out to me. So be it.

[gnarlsagan]

also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.

filing for a paypal refund now.

Show Image

Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck.  😢

[shrubkeys]

also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.

filing for a paypal refund now.

Show Image

Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck.  😢

IIRC in this case, there actually *was* more than one WoB M13 keyset. Of course, that doesn't mean those weren't sold multiple times, as well. :p

[SixtyLife]

also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.

filing for a paypal refund now.

Show Image

Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck.  😢

not sure if he was selling more than 1. did you get the wrong item too? he had the set listed at $50, it was prob the last day of his sale when I contacted him. I did the pp goods option because I wanted the tracking that was available with airmail. here's screenshot of message:

[gnarlsagan]

also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.

filing for a paypal refund now.

Show Image

Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck.  😢

not sure if he was selling more than 1. did you get the wrong item too? he had the set listed at $50, it was prob the last day of his sale when I contacted him. I did the pp goods option because I wanted the tracking that was available with airmail. here's screenshot of message:

Show Image

Damn you got a better deal than me! Paid on the 29th. Haven't gotten anything yet and he never confirmed with me that they actually shipped. I pm'ed him two days ago on DT but no response. I've been extremely understanding and polite to him.

[SixtyLife]

also got boned. paid Gutz $68 for White on Black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps and got some random set of garbage stock MX keycaps off what looks like a Mionix keyboard.

filing for a paypal refund now.

Show Image

Hey I ordered white on black IBM M13 buckling spring keycaps as well, but I paid $87 total. Was he selling more than one black M13? I paid through PayPal gift like a schmuck.  😢

not sure if he was selling more than 1. did you get the wrong item too? he had the set listed at $50, it was prob the last day of his sale when I contacted him. I did the pp goods option because I wanted the tracking that was available with airmail. here's screenshot of message:

Show Image

Damn you got a better deal than me! Paid on the 29th. Haven't gotten anything yet and he never confirmed with me that they actually shipped. I pm'ed him two days ago on DT but no response. I've been extremely understanding and polite to him.

Show Image

hope you can get it resolved dude.. hopefully he sent you the right caps and it'll come any day now

[Blaise170]

"PayPal will want me to upgrade to a seller account and that's more paperwork for me."

Literally the only difference between basic, seller, and business accounts are the tools you can use. I don't "own" a business but I use PayPal Business and it's almost exactly the same as regular PayPal.

[mind_funeral]

"PayPal will want me to upgrade to a seller account and that's more paperwork for me."

Literally the only difference between basic, seller, and business accounts are the tools you can use. I don't "own" a business but I use PayPal Business and it's almost exactly the same as regular PayPal.

Looks like a scam from the beginning...

[gnarlsagan]

"PayPal will want me to upgrade to a seller account and that's more paperwork for me."

Literally the only difference between basic, seller, and business accounts are the tools you can use. I don't "own" a business but I use PayPal Business and it's almost exactly the same as regular PayPal.

Looks like a scam from the beginning...

This was definitely NOT a scam. A scam would be sending out nothing at all. This was negligence/pressure from wife/massive stress/take your pick.

[rootwyrm]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hdp5VngkejeTHM_U8G2JFJUCGYrsgH_-GX1EmXfHx5g/edit?usp=sharing

updated doc a bit, will continue after dinner. Working on received next - once again, as packages come in please please please please speak up to say what you got.

Finally, let's not continue to bash beserkfan or each other. Instead just work things out because clearly he's not going to. So get what you can back from him, file complaints, file everything. His whining only hurts his case, and by being the better person holding a better posture, you'll find that the scales will tip towards you in claims. For others, lets see what we can work with on Moneygram or other methods. BUT KEEP OUR SOLUTIONS LEGAL, LEGITIMATE, AND CIVIL. I urge, I can't force, but I urge everyone be forthcoming and honest. I will be pm'ing more and following up with some others that might have been involved, and some of the folks that I am missing details to.

I am also going to be looking into possibly straight up fraud (selling items he didn't have) as there seems to be a pretty big coincidence on "themed" keyboards - which so happened to have been unlisted.

Sky, can you please give me full edit on the spreadsheet so I can tidy up the formatting a bit? Also you nuked my comments.

[mind_funeral]

"PayPal will want me to upgrade to a seller account and that's more paperwork for me."

Literally the only difference between basic, seller, and business accounts are the tools you can use. I don't "own" a business but I use PayPal Business and it's almost exactly the same as regular PayPal.

Looks like a scam from the beginning...

This was definitely NOT a scam. A scam would be sending out nothing at all. This was negligence/pressure from wife/massive stress/take your pick.

Well I have yet to receive anything and I was one that was talked into money order because: *insert berserk paypal excuse here*

[Skysophrenic]

Update: Rootwrym and I have been talking on and off for a while, but he's also got access to the spreadsheet. So pm's can go to him or me and it will eventually get onto the spreadsheet. For a few reasons, he is one of the first people I've reached out to, and second, he himself has also stated that he, like I am, willing to try to get items that we received back to the rightful original buyers, even if it is on our dime.

Side note: **** comcast. I mean, they're bad. But they at least answer disputes and get us a product - and disregarding all the bull**** about monopolies and whatever on telecom companies - comcast actually still does deliver. Beserkfan, you haven't. So congratulations! You've stooped below these guys. But hey, What do I know? Maybe life is all that tough. I mean, I'm just a single guy who's finished his masters this past year. I am a corporate sellout, working for a company on the 75th floor of a skyscraper in downtown Chicago. On the weekends I play video games, tinker with gadgets (such as mechs!) and sleep in late. I am bored. Beserkfan: You've kind of incited the curiosity of what is essentially a bored guy. You sparked my interest. Captured my attention - you've got it now. So I'm going to do what I can to help these people, and spite you along the way. Because I can.

[[Lewynlight]]

alright. i'll just lay down for a while.. if i get anything, i'll let you guys know.

[UnFocused]

Beserkfan: You've kind of incited the curiosity of what is essentially a bored guy. You sparked my interest. Captured my attention - you've got it now. So I'm going to do what I can to help these people, and spite you along the way. Because I can.

I'm not in any way involved in this mess, but that's just beautiful! 

[Skysophrenic]

I have been known to be persistent. 

[chuckdee]

I have been known to be persistent. 

Just wanted to say that this was my fault,  and to lay the blame at my feet.  Sorry to all affected- this is definitely a learning experience that I wish I didn't have to have

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