Ok, so I wasn’t going to post in this thread, but was interested to see where it was going...
Firstly a couple of things to clarify:
1 - Basic ISO support for EU users is 4 keys, 1.25u Shift, 1uR4, 1uR3 and the ISO enter. ISO-US does not cover this as it uses full left shift and the ISO enter key with the 1uR3... small distinction but I do feel that this stuff is important.
2 - I’m primarily an ISO user as most know, and build 90% or more of my boards in ISO layout.
Ok on to the meat and gravy...
ISO in the community is a minority. This is without a shadow of a doubt the case; the hobby is significantly more prevelant in the US and Asian communities than it is in Europe; but the hobby is growing significantly here. You can look at retail manufacturers such as Ducky, corsair, Apple etc, and you’ll see that overall in the non-mech-community, ISO vs ANSI is split pretty closely. I did some Freedom of Information requests on this last year, and the broad strokes of the results were that ISO was about 46% with ANSI being 53% and the rest being ‘other’ layouts.
But this community is not representative of the keyboard industry as a whole. It’s a microcosm, with its own quirks and idiosyncrasies (i.e. HHKB layout is much more prevalent in our community than it is in the keyboard industry).
There are lots of arguments against putting ISO in base kits or including support at all - whilst my preference is for UK ISO, I still buy stuff that only includes basic ISO support (note as I said above ISO-US is different). I get most of these arguments. I understand them: it basically boils down to the markets, is there significant demand for the keys, and does this make financial sense to the majority of buyers.
Yes ISO has always been included traditionally, and lots of base kits used to carry UK ISO as the default option. But now people are pushing for cheaper kits, which means culling keys. Fully understand. But that being said, financial motivation isnt the only reason to do something. Cost reduction, price per key, volume of users all boil into one argument - “does it make financial sense to add 4 keys to a base kit at a cost of say $2-3 for c. 10% of users at best”.
The answer to this is usually a resounding “NO”, and then ISO gets moved into a subsequent kit (numpad, 40’s etc), or removed in its entirety.
There are challenges and benefits to moving it to a kit, and I appreciate that - the benefit being it reduces base kit cost slightly, the negatives being that the user that needs those 4 keys now needs to pay $40 or more for a kit for keys that used to be in the base...(look at GMK calm Depths - had ISO UK and a huge base at a great price; other sets have fewer keys and are way more expensive (and I know that there is MOQ’s and price breaks at play here as well - its just an example).
But why does a financial motivator have to be the only rational for any decision? EU folks tend to spend less, buy fewer keysets, and have a smaller community. Look at any GB - the NA figures are higher than the EU ones for pretty much everything in the hobby from boards to keysets to artisans (except Norde/Uk/ISO kits). But that doesn’t mean there isnt a community here. That doesn’t mean that a minority should be ignored.
In any other industry, country, hobbies etc Minorities are supported. As this hobby becomes bigger and bigger we should be more Inclusive rather than Exclusive from an inclusivity POV. As the hobby grows in time there is more demand for everything. That will include ISO in terms of sheer numbers; even if the overall %age doesn’t change.
I dont think there is a right or wrong answer to any of this - I’m just playing Devils Advocate to say that in a hobby not all decisions should be made on financial factors alone. We often make decisions for reasons of Inclusion, sentiment, historical value, future value etc - but here the only real argument is a financial one.
My personal feeling is that I’d like to see a basic ISO support at least in either the base or a kit (i.e. numpad - the buyers for each will bolster the others). I dont want to have to pay more for the kit for those keys, but I will do to get my compatibility.
I’d also like to see more NordeUK kits run outside of Massdrop - In the EU we just hit MOQ on WoB and BoW NordeUK kits which is great.
Finally - I’d like us to be more inclusive as a community, and even if ISO moves out of base kits more often going forwards, I really dislike how people are mocked and derided for using ISO; thats just unfair and drives exclusivity and isn’t fair on newcomers to the community. We should strive to get along, reduce drama and increase positivity in the community.
I know I’ve not addressed everything or gone into tons of details for the arguments above - this is just an overview, but I’m happy to discuss some of the finer points.
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