Long Term issues with a few gaming mice

[Lukeyslife]

Hi everyone,

I've posted similar threads before on various forums and haven't had too much help, this forum seems more appropriate

Anyway so like many of you I game on my PC, I had a standard PC bought for me around 2-3 years ago which I planned to upgrade over time.
So after a while of owning this PC (AMD A8-5500 with AMD graphics) I was really happy I could game fine and play games like Arma 2 etc etc. With the PC was the bog standard mouse and keyboard nothing fancy with a cheap mouse pad.

Now I'm not entirely sure when it was but I bought my first gaming mice a MadCatz RAT 3, I found it great and started to play really well in games like (Black Ops 2, Battlefield) etc.
But over time something changed about my aim, all of a sudden I went from being a pretty decent FPS player to an average / bad.

What had happened was a mystery, but after that point I could no longer naturally aim. Since then til now I have altered out every component in my PC and changed OS etc. along with programs to check mouse acceleration was off likewise v-sync and many other things.

So after a while I started to guess it was my new beloved mouse, I still own the mouse today (still working). I thought well maybe the sensor isn't right so what I did was purchase another mouse which I believe was either the Razer Deathadder 2013 edition or the Anker 8200 DPI mouse, so after buying one of these mice I thought let's get back to business.

So I started gaming again but very soon I noticed things weren't right still they were different but notbetter.

I did some research and thought once again maybe it's the new mouse I must be very unlucky, so yet again I bought another mice.
This time the Deathadder so I thought well this has got to be fine, NOPE it felt the same.

So after this ordeal I thought well it must be a hardware problem right?
I changed out: CPU, GPU, (2 now) HDD, RAM, PSU,(2 new)Motherboard (twice).
So as you can see a lot of money has been spent, but still nothing has changed.

When I watch anyone on YouTube or Twitch or even try out another PC, they all seem to operate the seem way in how the cursor responds to individuals movement; whether or not they play PC games a lot or have just started; they all seem to grasp aiming quickly because of the precision of mice.

To put it simply in any game or any application (including Windows) my mice don't have 1-1 correlation with any setting or configuration.
They all seem to have "smoothing" "lag/delay" or "acceleration" both positive and negatively.

So is there anything that could be causing issues?
Or is it simply every mouse I own is defective?

Many thanks in advance,

Luke

[Bucake]

To put it simply in any game or any application (including Windows) my mice don't have 1-1 correlation with any setting or configuration.
They all seem to have "smoothing" "lag/delay" or "acceleration" both positive and negatively.

So is there anything that could be causing issues?
Or is it simply every mouse I own is defective?

Many thanks in advance,

Luke

hey man,
welcome, i suppose

first things first, i guess!
- what mouse are you currently using? what DPI setting are you using on that mouse?
- do you have any mouse driver installed (or even multple drivers)?
- do you have EPP turned off? do you use 6/11 windows pointer speed?
- what surface are you 'mousing' on? (wood table? cloth mousemat?)
- what game(s) do you primarily play? (and what mouse settings are available in it/those?)
- what OS are you currently using?

i presume everything's already set correctly, but let's start ruling stuff out, right?

[Lukeyslife]

Hey dude,

thanks for a quick response!

So to begin with

My current mouse is a - Gigabyte M6900 I believe the DPI currently is 800
- I have left the mouse drivers uninstalled, so just the generic Microsoft driver currently. I have used the Gigabyte ones before.
- I do have EPP turned off with 6/11 selected.
- I am using a cloth mouse pad a MadCatz Glide 3, I do have two other razer cloth pads as well (goliathus speed omega, sphinx)
- My main games are FPS games such as: Planetside 2, Battlefield 4, Cod: WAW, CS:GO, Warthunder and a few others.
- In every game I play (especially fps games) I always turn off mouse accel, along with v-sync off and I don't cap my fps at all. I also use raw mouse input where I can. I have altered sensitivity a decent amount, but regardless nothing seems to work 100%
- So atm I am using Windows 8.1, I only just reinstalled this OS a week ago. Before I was using Windows 7, both 64-bit and both haven't really helped the mouse problem; only an increase in FPS.

I hope that helps, once again thanks for the speedy response!
I greatly appreciate your time.

[Bucake]

it might be wise to (for now) switch back to your razer deathadder 2013.
why? well, the deathadder 2013 is known to be a good mouse.
the M6900 might not be too bad, but fewer reviews are available. (the sensor isn't great, and i wouldn't trust the funny sensor's position anyway)
so, for sake of trying to pinpoint the problem, it might be wise to use a mouse that's known to be a good one.

as far as i know, your cloth pads should work fine with optical mouse. but i guess it couldn't hurt to alternate between them a bit, to see if it changes anything.
because some sensors are harder to please than others, when it comes to what surface they work well on. (even color can matter!)

and, since you mentioned it also feels off in windows itself:
what version of your graphics drivers are you using? some of them aren't too kind on your mouse response and sometimes it's beneficial to go back to an earlier version.
have you taken a look at the nvidia control panel (or catalyst control center)? you might benefit from changing a few settings around, in there. (no vsync, no AA, etc)
there are also BIOS settings that can (sometimes greatly) change how your mouse feels. what settings are there of course depends on the motherboard, so i suggest looking into this.
have you tried disabling the windows aero theme? (and use windows basic or windows classic, for example)

there's also a bunch of things that could go wrong with USB..
how many USB devices do you have connected?
have you disabled the power saving stuff for your mouse?

this is a thread (on overclock.net); focussing (primarily) on mouse response.
i don't think anything in there is fact/officially-confirmed, but i'm just letting you know the thread is there, because it has alot of suggestions that you could take a look at.
the OP has a bunch of threads like that, focussing on mouse feel. you could quickly browse through some of them to see if you think that one, or more, suggestion(s) might be worth giving a shot.

[Lukeyslife]

wow thanks so much again dude,

I'm going to do try out a lot of these things, this was exactly what I was looking for!!

Unfortunately I don't have the deathadder anymore I forgot to mention but I sent it back as I fault it was defective lol.

anyway thanks so much for the help I will do some reading and let you know how I get on

Many Thanks!

[Lukeyslife]

for AMD Drivers I have the latest installed, I have tried many different drivers previously but very little difference.
I have turned off v-sync in the Catalyst suite so I imagine it wouldn't be that.

I've looked into some BIOS settings, but only briefly for now.
I will disable aero again.

I have only mouse and keyboard plugged in as USB devices.
I will try tweaking power save options

[munch]

if you ARE using Razer deathadder, do NOT use the software. tweak the mouse to the settings you like and uninstall it.
it does change cursor feel noticeably, very strange behaviour.
also, DA 2013 + Goliathus Speed is a pretty decent combination overall, the mouse known to track well on it too.

what monitor are you using? I know that currently since I am temporarily in Sweden, where I am using a ****ty 27" 1080p monitor with a lot of input lag, I really can't play FPS games the way I used to when I had a 120Hz  low input lag monitor it is the biggest problem for me personally, cause I rely a lot on my "tracking" ability when I play games.

[Tactile]

Don't know if it will help but you might want to check out this webpage about mouse acceleration...

http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html

[Lukeyslife]

Hey guys thanks again for the replies,

I have the BenQ GL2450HT monitor 24" 1080p, I will do some tests on it using some software which I have used in the past.

Also I tried the Mousefix in the past, I will give it another go just incase.

[Bucake]

Unfortunately I don't have the deathadder anymore I forgot to mention but I sent it back as I fault it was defective lol.

i think the Mad Catz R.A.T. 3 should be fine, otherwise.

Also I tried the Mousefix in the past, I will give it another go just incase.

very unlikely that markC will do you any good.

anyway; has anything you've tried made a difference at all?
also, could you try to explain in what way the cursor's responsiveness feels funny, weird, off, bad, whatever?
because i don't think acceleration is ever really caused by anything other than software/settings, or the mouse itself (either firmware or hardware).
though, (mouse) lag can have a scary amount of causes..

it's hard for me to think of 'obvious causes', since you've already tried so much (different hardware parts, different OS', different software, different settings, etc..)
i fear it's something well beyond my knowledge, hehe.

[Lukeyslife]

Hi Bu thanks for staying with me

I tried something different yesterday (odd) so for the last year I have used a anti-surge power extension sockets which plugged into the wall, yesterday I directly plugged my PSU cable into the wall. I know that's not the best method, maybe placebo but I did feel a little more response; although I doubt this is due to the PSU itself as I have tried 3 different ones and nothing changed.

So yesterday  my CPU downclocked itself because I think I forgot to reset the BIOS so the fan wouldn't alternate between different RPM speeds.
it's fine now but I noticed because of the downclock in speed 4.GHZ to 1.4GHZ obviously gaming performance would be low. So when Playing Battlefield Hardline and any other game the game did stutter, but what I found was that the mouse didn't have input lag but felt like negative acceleration.

I think the best way to describe the feel is by saying when in-game if I try to make a certain movement i.e. 90 degrees either direction if I made that movement the mouse would correspond but I would have to drag further than I realistically should (taking into account DPI and sensitivity). 
It kind of feels like input lag in the sense that it doesn't correspond 100% with the speed of my movements, really it just doesn't  correlate to my movement even though I have acceleration etc. turned off.
Maybe the opposite to normal acceleration is what it feels like, it's very hard to explain.

Maybe also I would say that there is no "anchor point", it does feel like there is no "stop and start" everything feels very smoothed out.
Sorry to rant on but it is as if the mice don't move pixel by pixel like they skip them but in a very odd way.

I guess it must be some kind of mouse lag, the reason I blame hardware is because of any OS or any piece of software I use the mouse feels exactly the same.

Sorry again for the big post, thanks once again for the help.

[Oobly]

If you have a clean install:
1. Don't install mouse drivers.
2. set the sensitivity to 6/11
3. turn off enhance precision
4. run the MarkC fix
5. turn off mouse smoothing, vsync and any acceleration effects in-game. 

If it still does it, it's most likely the game coding or the mouse sensor that's got the problem.

I found this to be a major issue for me with the original PC version of Bioshock. The lazy-ass developers developed it for console and left the movement acceleration in with no way to turn it off. I still haven't finished the game because I just can't get over the horrible acceleration.

I suspect most of the problems are game-specific.

I have read that BF4 has some lag even with vsync off.

In CS:GO turn off raw input and instead use noforcemparms and noforcemaccels.

Some info on Planetside 2 settings: http://www.juggernaut-ps2.com/forum/index.php?threads/mouse-acceleration-in-planetside-2.1058/

Not sure about the other games, but you should be able to find something when googling.

I found the original RAT3 to be awesome for games with no noticable acceleration at all (I'm very sensitive to it, have been since playing original Half Life / Counterstrike). I think it's even better than the newer "precise" optical version and yes, I have one of each. I think the new Tournament Edition also has a fantastic, acceleration-free sensor.