Does sp do tri sub?
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What would the moq be? G20's are slightly sloped, so you can't really just rotate them without them looking/feeling awkward.
What would the moq be? G20's are slightly sloped, so you can't really just rotate them without them looking/feeling awkward.
I can't think of how I would actually use it.
A suggesion, can you make the design on numpad but on the alphas? You know, for a cleaner version overall ;D
Very cool! I'm into it.
Would you consider adding the following COFFEE keycap?Show Image(https://typesetinthefuture.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/alien_semiotic_coffee.jpg)
The alphas are very interesting as well. I can imagine a lot of people buying the alphas even if they don't buy the entire set. ;D
There are over 50 1u Semiotic symbol keys currently defined (and shown in the above renders). That should be enough to cover any HHKB-style layout.Yes, but the numrow would look a bit silly with the second to last key being semiotic while the rest of the row, barring Esc, being in the style of modifiers/numrow/numpad.
As for additional keys of other sizes, like extra 2.25u keys or 1.5u keys, I want to put together at least one kit of all of those so that nobody with an alternate layout is left out.
Oh! I see what you mean. You want a 1u version of |\ in the style of the current numrow. Yeah, sure, that would be totally doable.Thanks! :-*
The alphas are very interesting as well. I can imagine a lot of people buying the alphas even if they don't buy the entire set. ;D
This comment made me realize that there are currently enough Semiotic symbol keys to cover all the 1u positions on a 60% board, even replacing the numrow. I think I will whip up a render of what that would look like.
But it also raises the uncomfortable (for me) question of how to best arrange child kits. All ideas are welcome. Keep in mind that my intention would be to have an ErgoDox child kit separate from whatever else there is, so there's no need to focus on that per se.
My thought about the child kits:
:
Here's what the HHKB-style layout might look like:
(Attachment Link)
My thought about the child kits:
:
That's a pretty nice break-down. Keep in mind that there is only one size spacebar in the G20 family, which is 6.25u. We can use anything 2.75u and smaller to also play the role of a spacebar (or split spacebars), but there is nothing between 3u and 6u (and no 7u) for G20.
Also, I am torn over how to best represent the navcluster. As it stands (in my renders anyway), those keys are, in effect, just a bunch of 1u Semiotic symbol keys. Suppose the "Semiotic Base" kit was composed of all the 1u Semiotic symbol keys, all 50+ of them. There would be no need for a navcluster kit because you'd already have what you need in the Semiotics Base kit. Besides, I suspect that most folks will want all the Semiotic symbols, regardless of the layout they are targeting, just so they can pick and choose which ones to use throughout their keyboards. Doing this, however, would turn the TKL kit into nothing more than an F-row kit. And the issue with an F-row kit is that it would be one of the least cost-effective kits being composed of only 12 keycaps.
I confess that I don't really understand what a "Tsangan" kit is. The name means nothing to me. Is it wise to put the spacebar that 99% of users will need into such a strangely named kit?
I can't yet make renders of all the funky layouts out there because I don't yet have graphics for all the extra keys that are needed for them. I will need an inventory of necessary extra keys from you folks so I can be sure nothing is left out.
Once I have everything, I can make a large orthographic render so you can chop up the keys into whatever arrangements you like.
Here's what the HHKB-style layout might look like:Would buy 1/1.
(Attachment Link)
As for sets, I'd suggest the following;
All semiotic
All mods and space
Numpad
However, my fear is lack of flexibility means too many folks would be forced to buy keycaps they won't never use (like the entire collection of mods, including alternate layout mods). So here's sorta what I'm pondering:
Semiotic Symbols (all)
Base Mods (w/ spacebar) - combined with the above you have enough to cover any 60% or smaller board.
Top Rows (F- and numrow keys) - combined with the above you have enough to cover TKL and smaller.
Numpad - combined with the above you have enough to cover any full-size board.
ErgoDox - keys specific to the unusual needs of an ErgoDox.
Alternate Extras - basically everything else, which provides for all the other alternate layouts.
Folks wanting 60%-ish boards with a numrow will need the first three kits, and would end up with F-row keys they don't need, but there may be no other way to make those top row keys an optional buy-in and affordable at the same time.
So would the Semiotic Symbols set include even the NumLock and navcluster symbols? Because that would be a huge selling point to me, not having to buy a modifier, num-row and fn-row kit just to get a few more symbols.
I really love the abstract-future-tech look of this set, and I agree that it fits the G20 profile well. I like the numpad and modifiers the best, and I think it's because of the extra whitespace and thin lines. I wish the alphas shard the same aesthetic. They just look too "heavy". Right now when you look at the keys you can see the division of alphas and modifiers... I'd want it to be extra crazy, like not even being able to distinguish between the two! CHAOS! BTW, is there any homing indication for F/J on G20?
Just an observation: the anticipated low demand for this highly unusual design would likely result in:
1. Kits that are a little on the expensive side (unless SP decides to offer dramatically low price tiers just to promote the G20 family).
2. A keycap set that is a collector's item right from the get go.
I like the numpad and modifiers the best, and I think it's because of the extra whitespace and thin lines. I wish the alphas shard the same aesthetic.
So would the Semiotic Symbols set include even the NumLock and navcluster symbols? Because that would be a huge selling point to me, not having to buy a modifier, num-row and fn-row kit just to get a few more symbols.
Are you sure you mean NumLock? That key from the numpad goes with the top row of the numpad (which includes the "Agaric Fly" key) and is in the EDS panel motif rather than the Semiotic symbol motif.
But yes, the idea would be that a Semiotic Symbols kit would have all the symbols in the Semiotic symbol style, even the ones shown on the navcluster.
The price of a kit is a function of two factors:
1. The number of keys in the kit.
2. The number of kits manufactured.
The more keys there are in a kit, the lower the per-key cost is. That is of course balanced by the fact that there are more keys in the kit. That's why a small kit still seems to cost a lot; even though there aren't that many keys in it, the per-key cost is disproportionately high.
And obviously, the more kits are made, the lower the overall unit cost. That's why you see drastically difference prices for MOQs of 25, 50, 100, and so on.
So we could have a few large-ish kits and they would be reasonable from a per-key cost basis, but still expensive because each kit has so many keys. Or we could have lots of little kits that seem less expensive on the surface of it, but then you find the cost of buying all the kits you need to fill out a board ends up higher than if you just bought two or three large kits (and ended up with keys you didn't use).
Unfortunately, I think this set might struggle to attract 100 buyers, and so we would not enjoy the price breaks that go with that MOQ tier.
These are great, maybe some novelties/ESC keys with Weyland Yutani logos too, or are there copywright issues on those?
http://deathbymodding.deviantart.com/art/Rocketdock-Semiotic-Standard-Icons-489769597 (http://deathbymodding.deviantart.com/art/Rocketdock-Semiotic-Standard-Icons-489769597)
Also, found this looking around, just a base set with icon descriptions, neat!:
http://scotch-and-soda.deviantart.com/art/Alien-Semiotic-Standard-Icons-189883488
These are great, maybe some novelties/ESC keys with Weyland Yutani logos too, or are there copywright issues on those?
http://deathbymodding.deviantart.com/art/Rocketdock-Semiotic-Standard-Icons-489769597 (http://deathbymodding.deviantart.com/art/Rocketdock-Semiotic-Standard-Icons-489769597)
Also, found this looking around, just a base set with icon descriptions, neat!:
http://scotch-and-soda.deviantart.com/art/Alien-Semiotic-Standard-Icons-189883488
To be h
onest, those don't really fit the semiotic aesthetic in my eyes. The inspiration is certainly there, but they are lacking the simplicity and clarity of the semiotic icons. Even the Defrag icon, which is closest to the original style, is too far from the border and doesn't incorporate the radii on that. It just looks slapped on.
Ya, I wasn't implying all those should be considered, just the Weyland-Yutani ones and then only as reference.
There's plenty of Weyland-Yutani logo's out there for reference: https://goo.gl/Y3SiY7 (https://goo.gl/Y3SiY7)
This set is already in somewhat murky territory with regard to copyrights. I await word from 20th Century Fox business relations, but I'm not expecting a response any time this decade. If this set gets made, it will have to do so under the auspices of benign neglect from Fox.Gotcha, totally understand!
In any event, apart from the D|T, G|H, and r|m tribute keys, I'm not going to make any key that refers to the name of anything (like Weyland-Yutani). I'm also not planning to use any Semiotic symbol that (I feel) Ron Cobb would not have allowed to appear on film.
I hope everyone understands and appreciates the philosophy behind my decision there.
This set is already in somewhat murky territory with regard to copyrights. I await word from 20th Century Fox business relations, but I'm not expecting a response any time this decade. If this set gets made, it will have to do so under the auspices of benign neglect from Fox.
In any event, apart from the D|T, G|H, and r|m tribute keys, I'm not going to make any key that refers to the name of anything (like Weyland-Yutani). I'm also not planning to use any Semiotic symbol that (I feel) Ron Cobb would not have allowed to appear on film.
I hope everyone understands and appreciates the philosophy behind my decision there.
I like the numpad and modifiers the best, and I think it's because of the extra whitespace and thin lines. I wish the alphas shard the same aesthetic.
If I understand you correctly, I think I addressed that sentiment once before, in reply #13.
Also, I believe the G20 family does provide for homing bumps, but I wouldn't apply them here because I don't want to restrict any keys to being "home" keys.
I like the numpad and modifiers the best, and I think it's because of the extra whitespace and thin lines. I wish the alphas shard the same aesthetic.
If I understand you correctly, I think I addressed that sentiment once before, in reply #13.
Also, I believe the G20 family does provide for homing bumps, but I wouldn't apply them here because I don't want to restrict any keys to being "home" keys.
Could a homing key option be provided? I consider this a keyset for touch typing. Touch typing without homing keys seems impractically challenging.
I like the numpad and modifiers the best, and I think it's because of the extra whitespace and thin lines. I wish the alphas shard the same aesthetic.
If I understand you correctly, I think I addressed that sentiment once before, in reply #13.
Also, I believe the G20 family does provide for homing bumps, but I wouldn't apply them here because I don't want to restrict any keys to being "home" keys.
Here is a dedicated matched pair of homing keys. They are mirror images of each other, and the white portion of the homing disks can either point outward or inward, user's choice, depending on which key is on the left and which is on the right:
(Attachment Link)
Here is a dedicated matched pair of homing keys. They are mirror images of each other, and the white portion of the homing disks can either point outward or inward, user's choice, depending on which key is on the left and which is on the right:
(Attachment Link)
A suggesion, can you make the design on numpad but on the alphas? You know, for a cleaner version overall ;D
Then it wouldn't be G20 Semiotic, but G20 EDS Panel. A different set with a different focus.
Not that such a set isn't worth doing, just not by me necessarily. The modifiers draw from the EDS panel out of necessity (i.e., the Semiotic symbols look wrong on anything but 1u keys, IMO), and the numpad does so only because its ortholinear layout makes it feasible (it would be an ugly mess to try and force an intrinsically ortholinear design around staggered alphas). As cool as the EDS panel is (I love it too), that motif was never intended to be the guiding aesthetic of the entire set. Moreover, you'd lose the ability to arrange the alphas however you wish, which I think is an appealing benefit of the Semiotic symbols. Being purely symbolic, they are linguistically uninflected and therefore intrinsically international and function-adaptable.
In fact, the inclusion of the numpad was almost an afterthought; I was primarily inspired to create something for small layouts, not full-size boards, despite my own general preference for them. If you were to put this set on a 60% or smaller board, there would be a Semiotic symbol available for every 1u key you'd need covered.
Am I correct in understanding that the ErgoDox only has three sizes of keycaps: 1u, 1.5u, and 2u?
Here is a dedicated matched pair of homing keys. They are mirror images of each other, and the white portion of the homing disks can either point outward or inward, user's choice, depending on which key is on the left and which is on the right:
(Attachment Link)
When I do a google search, I see a couple of different layouts for European numpads. Is there one in particular that is the dominant layout?
Here is the "Extras" kit so far. Consider it a work in progress, of course. Many of the keys satisfy various WhiteFox layouts, which I figure covers a lot of territory. The 2u key is intended to be used as a Planck spacebar, but it could be used in any 2u position, really.
(Attachment Link)
I'm also thinking that the international numpad keys could go in this kit since the ISO UK keys are there.
Alternate layout questions for everyone:
1. Is there ever a need for more than two 1.75u keys (e.g., CapsLock & Shift)?
2. Is there ever a need for more than two 2.25u keys (both of them Shift keys)?
3. Are there any alternate layouts that make use of 1u Shift keys? If so, how many do they use?
4. Are there any alternate layouts that make use of 1.5u Shift keys? If so, how many do they use?
Here are the two layouts I found:Show Image(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41loxsbsSPL._SY300_.jpg)Show Image(http://www.staples-3p.com/s7/is/image/Staples/m000157952_sc7?$splssku$)
Also, I sometimes see a "00" key instead of "000" at the bottom, and a "," instead of a "." (presumably because in Europe, the decimal point and comma are used for the opposite of what they are in the US).
As I said, normally we have a 2u + as well, so the International Standard isn't any different. The Brazilian layout has a . there and a , where the. is normally. Apple keyboards have an additional = key.
So I'm afraid there is no actual resource on this. It's really just a question of alternate layouts for the numpad in general.
EDIT: The Miami Dolch has a pretty good numpad kit in my opinion:
Homing 5 key would be great to add to the Semiotics kit, obviously.
I'm still wondering what people use in combination with the 1u + key in place of the 2u + key? Presumably they don't leave the switch uncovered with no keycap on it.
And what are the four keycaps on top for?
Homing 5 key would be great to add to the Semiotics kit, obviously.
When I get around to the child kit renders, I'll be sure to add a homing 5 to the numpad kit.
I'm still wondering what people use in combination with the 1u + key in place of the 2u + key? Presumably they don't leave the switch uncovered with no keycap on it.Simple answer: Compact layouts.
And what are the four keycaps on top for?
I'm still wondering what people use in combination with the 1u + key in place of the 2u + key? Presumably they don't leave the switch uncovered with no keycap on it.
And what are the four keycaps on top for?
As I said, either an = symbol, which is useful in excel for example, or a , so you have both the decimal point and thousands comma on the pad.
The four keys above in the Miami Dolch set are supposed to be optionally used on separate keypads like the Leopold 210TP which have 21 keys instead of 17. They're also useful for ortholinear keyboards.
Here is a dedicated matched pair of homing keys.
Here are the WhiteFox renders I promised. Note that the 7u spacebar in the Winkeyless layout is a DSA spacebar since the G20 family only has a 6.25u spacebar.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Here is the latest Extras kit manifest, which now includes two 1u Shift keys and the international numpad keys.
(Attachment Link)
And here are the international numpad keys as they might appear on a numpad. Note that the 1u "+" key and the 1u "other" key are interchangeable in terms of position.
(Attachment Link)
I should have WhiteFox layout renders later this week. Stay tuned!
Thanks, Vigrith! :D
Once I have the kit renders, I'll post all this over on DT. Would anyone be willing to point the reddit crowd over here for me? I imagine we're really going to need to spread the word as much as possible on this in order to accumulate enough votes on PMK to push it into production.
Of course, I will try to negotiate with Melissa on a lower vote threshold to kickstart production on the grounds that the G20 family needs all the help it can get in gaining popularity with the community.
Here is what I have currently for the ErgoDox kit. I'd like to hear from Ergo users as to whether they would prefer to have this as its own kit, or have these keys added into the Extras kit.
(Attachment Link)
The next step will be a high-res orthographic render of all the kits with all the keys. Stay tuned!
Here's an updated Extras kit. Just a small tweak to the ISO Return key, and the addition of the toprow \| key.
(Attachment Link)
The next step will be a high-res orthographic render of all the kits with all the keys. Stay tuned!
No, you're totally correct, they don't. The Extras kit would come with the DCS version instead. Better than none at all, I figure.
DCS? Or DSA?
They're the same thing.
As far as I know, SP has a tolerance of 0.02 inches for edge to edge printing. This set kind of requires the prints to be aligned exactly, though. I would ask them to run a sample first before putting more time into it (set looks pretty defined already)
Also, I've scoured PMK's website twice now and I still haven't found a page for voting. Is it something that's only visible when there are sets to vote for?
Here is a slightly tweaked update to the full set render. I removed the \| key from the Extras kit, so it only appears in the Topstripe kit now. I also replaced the 1.5u \| key with a new graphic. The previous one remains in the ErgoDox kit, and is exclusive to it.
(Attachment Link)
there are two arrows cluster?
Ortholinear mods will be lovely. Looking at your render I found the all-symbol planck is too cramped and didn't have place to "breath" like when this set placed on another board. Sure it give planck some special treatment if you look it from the other side, but as the original semiotic/EDS use ortholinear layout too, ortho board will become the closest homage.
I think it would be great to see a G20 ISO Return. But SP never bothered to invest in an ISO Return key mold for DSA. It is hard to imagine what would motivate them to do so for G20.
Thanks for the link to the voting page.
Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.
I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!
I want to thank everyone for helping out on this! :thumb:
Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.
I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!
Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.
I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!
I want to thank everyone for helping out on this! :thumb:
That is a good question derezzed.
SP is already aware of the set and what it looks like, so I sort of feel that if they weren't confident that their equipment could faithfully produce it, I don't think they would have proposed making it a Set of the Month. But, of course, we won't know for certain until we try some experiments. It will be an iterative process that will take a little time.
My biggest fear is being told that in order to be "safe" and avoid any chance of sublimating over the top edges, I will have to shrink the graphics to a size smaller than I am happy with. The EDSP graphics I'm not so worried about since they all have lots of open space around their printed elements. It is the Semiotic symbols that present the greatest potential for problems because they all have a red border which must be perfectly centered and not run over any top edge. Depending on the registration tolerances of their sublimation equipment, this could be a thorny issue.
I just hope that the main alpha legends come with a fair quality considering how complex they are.
It may be some market for a set with alphas that use the same type of legends that the number row has.
I just hope that the main alpha legends come with a fair quality considering how complex they are.
Agreed. I am optimistic because these graphics are all simple shapes and line work. Perfect for the dye-sublimation process. The only question is that of minimum supportable line thickness since some elements are pretty thin.It may be some market for a set with alphas that use the same type of legends that the number row has.
There may be, but such a set would just be a conventional set of alphas in the Eurostile font, which I have no interest in (as a user or as a designer). If someone else wants to design such a set/kit, by all means they should. I would not object.
Major Update: Melissa over at Signature Plastics contacted me and they want to run G20 Semiotics as one of their featured Sets of the Month.
I will be working with them to make sure the graphics fit onto the keycaps properly. Assuming this goes smoothly, you'll all be able to order sets in the (hopefully) not too distant future!
Next Sunday, A.D.?
Okay, maybe I misunderstood you. You said "with the same type of legends that the number row has." The type(face) used on the Topstripe keys is Eurostile, and they have border graphics too. The stock G20 keycaps available from SP would have neither of these features, but maybe they would be an acceptable compromise for folks who only like the EDSP-based modifiers.
G20 blanks + Sharpie markers = problem solved ;)
Here are the first keycap samples derived from the graphics I sent to SP.
(Attachment Link)
I am exploring the feasibility of enlarging the symbols about 10%, but if doing so presents problems then what you see in that photo is what they will look like. I'm pleased to see that they look exactly as I envisioned them, pretty much right off the bat.
Far better than I thought, I just hope the large keys do not get warped as the Granites did.
G20's are slightly less textured than our DSA keys, but definitely have more texture than SA.
Far better than I thought, I just hope the large keys do not get warped as the Granites did.
Do you mean the bow tie effect where it curves in at the middle on the top an bottom edges? I have 3 sets of PBT caps from SP and they all have that warp to some extent. Sometimes it's very slight, so let's hope for the best. It looks like the shift modifier has a bit of curve to it, but certainly nothing deal breaking.
Here are the first keycap samples derived from the graphics I sent to SP.That looks amazing. :eek:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/WNp6Y6h.png)
I am exploring the feasibility of enlarging the symbols about 10%, but if doing so presents problems then what you see in that photo is what they will look like. I'm pleased to see that they look exactly as I envisioned them, pretty much right off the bat.
So, will the plastic be translucent like in the movie?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HdvUSxS.jpg)
Are there any options for finish like glossy, semi-matte, matte?
So, will the plastic be translucent like in the movie?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/HdvUSxS.jpg)
Oh god, this well be great!
A question, does it include 2 1.5 keys anywhere? I'd like to use it with my (future) atreus... And how much will the kits be?
Oh god, this well be great!
A question, does it include 2 1.5 keys anywhere? I'd like to use it with my (future) atreus... And how much will the kits be?
For 1.5u keys there are the following:I think you'll be able to find enough keycaps to cover all your bases, especially if you splurge for the ERGODOX kit and raid it for 1.5u and 2u keycaps.
- 1.5u x 2 in MODS kit (intended for Tab and |\ key positions on an ANSI layout).
- 1.5u x5 in EXTRAS kit. One of them is the "Backspace" graphic from the MODS kit, but in 1.5u form. The other four duplicate the graphics of the bottom row modifiers (intended for Winkeyless layouts).
- 1.5u x 12 in ERGODOX kit. Three of them duplicate graphics from the MODS kit, but in 1.5u form. Four of them duplicate the bottom row modifiers, as in the EXTRAS kit. The remaining five are unique graphics and only appear in the ERGODOX kit.
I have no idea what kit pricing will be like. I guess we'll all find out together once the set appears on PMK's webstore.
Thanks, mogo!
I hope they meet everyone's expectations. :thumb:
If I remember correctly, someone here let the reddit folks know about this, right? I want to make sure they don't miss out on it when it eventually goes up on PMK's webstore.
I put the word out on DT yesterday, and so far, only crickets. #weird
You have every right to be picky, in any way that suits you, ideus. No hard feelings here.
I am too picky in that I refuse to type on cylindrical keycaps, no matter how well made they are. I'm almost neurotic about it. We're all weird in our own way, I suppose.
Apart from maybe some Atomic layouts which need, like, 80+ unique 1u keycaps, this set will cover pretty much any keyboard out there. Sure, some really strange layouts might require you to buy an odd blank or two separately from SP (like if someone needs a third 2.75u keycap or something), but I like the idea that I can buy one set, and with its 150 keycaps cover anything I am ever likely to type on.
If I remember correctly, someone here let the reddit folks know about this, right? I want to make sure they don't miss out on it when it eventually goes up on PMK's webstore.
(Attachment Link)
I have a feeling that 2017 is going to be a year of hardship for the budget-minded keyboard enthusiast and for those who lack patience. So many good sets are in the pipeline and the production backlog seems to keep growing.
G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:
(Attachment Link)
G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:
(Attachment Link)
G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:
(Attachment Link)
So many good sets are in the pipeline and the production backlog seems to keep growing.
Agreed. It's like the ergodox was designed to wear G20 Semiotic.G20 Semiotic ErgoDox:
(Attachment Link)
Fantastic. I've never even considered an ergodox build, but man, that's amazing.
Will any of the keys have homing nubs on them?
Needs nipples instead of bars to both make it multi-directional and complete the "boob". :pWill any of the keys have homing nubs on them?
Yes, these two, mentioned here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85525.msg2297231#msg2297231).Show Image(https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=85525.0;attach=152107;image)
Is a new vertical 1.5u keycap shape going to be made for the ErgoDox kit? That's the only one that's needed to enable G20 to cover all the keyboards supported by this set with properly-shaped keycaps.
But this means I have to speak to Melissa and make sure that the vertical 2u keys use the vertical 2u mold!
Yes, definitely make sure that the thumb keycaps are made in the vertical 2u shape. However, please ask about making a new vertical 1.5u shape as well. All the keycaps in all the kits of Semiotic will have proper shapes if you do, and it would be good to make sure that Melissa at least knows about the need for them.Is a new vertical 1.5u keycap shape going to be made for the ErgoDox kit? That's the only one that's needed to enable G20 to cover all the keyboards supported by this set with properly-shaped keycaps.
You bring up an interesting issue.
I just assumed that the vertical 2u keys (in the numpad, for instance) were normal 2u keys rotated 90 degrees, but you're saying they are special 2u molds? If so, then as far as I know, the 1.5u vertical keys (for the ErgoDox kit) won't have the same sort of dedicated vertical mold. They will be horizontal 1.5u keys that you'll have to rotate to put into place.
But this means I have to speak to Melissa and make sure that the vertical 2u keys use the vertical 2u mold!
I can tell you right now that SP will not spend money on new molds just for this set. In fact, I wouldn't expect them to be making new G20 molds for some time to come. There simply isn't the demand for them. And even if there was, I'm sure that a 7u spacebar mold and an ISO return key mold would come long before a vertical 1.5u mold.You're probably right, but that doesn't stop you from bringing it up. There's no harm in letting them know that it's something the community would prefer to have.
I can tell you right now that SP will not spend money on new molds just for this set. In fact, I wouldn't expect them to be making new G20 molds for some time to come. There simply isn't the demand for them. And even if there was, I'm sure that a 7u spacebar mold and an ISO return key mold would come long before a vertical 1.5u mold.You're probably right, but that doesn't stop you from bringing it up. There's no harm in letting them know that it's something the community would prefer to have.
That may very well be the way SP sees it, but just one look at this thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76674.0) will show you just how much the community appreciates proper keycap shapes.I can tell you right now that SP will not spend money on new molds just for this set. In fact, I wouldn't expect them to be making new G20 molds for some time to come. There simply isn't the demand for them. And even if there was, I'm sure that a 7u spacebar mold and an ISO return key mold would come long before a vertical 1.5u mold.You're probably right, but that doesn't stop you from bringing it up. There's no harm in letting them know that it's something the community would prefer to have.
Signature Plastics doesn't really need to do anything right now. They're quite literally printing money with the molds they already have.
Well, sure, but that's because 99.9% of keyboards need those Shift keys, and so the hew and cry over the lack of R4 molds was understandably deafening, so to speak. The hew and cry over the lack of ISO return and vertical 1.5u keycaps for G20 is so faint as to be nearly imperceptible by comparison. It is little wonder that SP doesn't make either much of a priority.The problem is that SP probably doesn't even know that G20 is missing a vertical 1.5u shape, which is not the case with the others you mentioned. You, as the designer of the first custom G20 set, are in a perfect position to change that.
The G20 family is strictly a flat top style. There is no top curvature to any G20 keycap, period. Homing bumps are the only option.
I have no idea what those are, but Signature Plastics' spec sheet for the G20 family only lists homing bump and homing bar as options, not deepdish.Check out this page (http://keycapsdirect.com/esports.php). Could the dished top surface that it mentions have been made?
Tooling for a dished top surface [...] has been delayed.
Yes, definitely make sure that the thumb keycaps are made in the vertical 2u shape. However, please ask about making a new vertical 1.5u shape as well. All the keycaps in all the kits of Semiotic will have proper shapes if you do, and it would be good to make sure that Melissa at least knows about the need for them.
Interesting. I expected more from a company whose main business is keycaps.Yes, definitely make sure that the thumb keycaps are made in the vertical 2u shape. However, please ask about making a new vertical 1.5u shape as well. All the keycaps in all the kits of Semiotic will have proper shapes if you do, and it would be good to make sure that Melissa at least knows about the need for them.
So I asked Melissa about this and according to her, there are no vertically oriented molds for G20 at all, not even 2u. So that means that the vertical 2u keys in both the NUMPAD and ERGODOX kits will just be regular horizontal 2u keycaps that will be rotated 90 degrees with the slope on whichever "long" side you prefer. She also said they don't have plans to make vertical molds "any time soon". That does leave open the door for the possibility in the future, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Making molds for a largely obscure profile that will cost at least $10000 without a good idea if they will ever recuperate the costs?Interesting. I expected more from a company whose main business is keycaps.Yes, definitely make sure that the thumb keycaps are made in the vertical 2u shape. However, please ask about making a new vertical 1.5u shape as well. All the keycaps in all the kits of Semiotic will have proper shapes if you do, and it would be good to make sure that Melissa at least knows about the need for them.
So I asked Melissa about this and according to her, there are no vertically oriented molds for G20 at all, not even 2u. So that means that the vertical 2u keys in both the NUMPAD and ERGODOX kits will just be regular horizontal 2u keycaps that will be rotated 90 degrees with the slope on whichever "long" side you prefer. She also said they don't have plans to make vertical molds "any time soon". That does leave open the door for the possibility in the future, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Making molds for a largely obscure profile that will cost at least $10000 without a good idea if they will ever recuperate the costs?Interesting. I expected more from a company whose main business is keycaps.Yes, definitely make sure that the thumb keycaps are made in the vertical 2u shape. However, please ask about making a new vertical 1.5u shape as well. All the keycaps in all the kits of Semiotic will have proper shapes if you do, and it would be good to make sure that Melissa at least knows about the need for them.
So I asked Melissa about this and according to her, there are no vertically oriented molds for G20 at all, not even 2u. So that means that the vertical 2u keys in both the NUMPAD and ERGODOX kits will just be regular horizontal 2u keycaps that will be rotated 90 degrees with the slope on whichever "long" side you prefer. She also said they don't have plans to make vertical molds "any time soon". That does leave open the door for the possibility in the future, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Not that weird.
To be honest I'm surprised they are dedicating the resources as it is for this bizarre set.
Making molds for a largely obscure profile that will cost at least $10000 without a good idea if they will ever recuperate the costs?Interesting. I expected more from a company whose main business is keycaps.Yes, definitely make sure that the thumb keycaps are made in the vertical 2u shape. However, please ask about making a new vertical 1.5u shape as well. All the keycaps in all the kits of Semiotic will have proper shapes if you do, and it would be good to make sure that Melissa at least knows about the need for them.
So I asked Melissa about this and according to her, there are no vertically oriented molds for G20 at all, not even 2u. So that means that the vertical 2u keys in both the NUMPAD and ERGODOX kits will just be regular horizontal 2u keycaps that will be rotated 90 degrees with the slope on whichever "long" side you prefer. She also said they don't have plans to make vertical molds "any time soon". That does leave open the door for the possibility in the future, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Not that weird.
I believe that if one is going to do something, one should do it right, or not do it at all. Since SP ventured to create the G20 profile, I imagined that SP should have at the very least created all of the shapes necessary to cover a completely standard keyboard.Making molds for a largely obscure profile that will cost at least $10000 without a good idea if they will ever recuperate the costs?Interesting. I expected more from a company whose main business is keycaps.Yes, definitely make sure that the thumb keycaps are made in the vertical 2u shape. However, please ask about making a new vertical 1.5u shape as well. All the keycaps in all the kits of Semiotic will have proper shapes if you do, and it would be good to make sure that Melissa at least knows about the need for them.
So I asked Melissa about this and according to her, there are no vertically oriented molds for G20 at all, not even 2u. So that means that the vertical 2u keys in both the NUMPAD and ERGODOX kits will just be regular horizontal 2u keycaps that will be rotated 90 degrees with the slope on whichever "long" side you prefer. She also said they don't have plans to make vertical molds "any time soon". That does leave open the door for the possibility in the future, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Not that weird.
Matt3o confirmed SP is slammed with work and his response doesn't sound 100% confident if a rerun of SA Nuclear Green will happen in 2017.
Suggesting that they sacrifice resources for a few keys that are likely not even profitable in the first place would be a terrible business decision. There appears to be competition coming from China (ie: XDA like keys/etc.) so IMHO they should milk the existing molds while they can.
To be honest I'm surprised they are dedicating the resources as it is for this bizarre set.
Latest prototypes: top row (original size), middle row 5% enlargement, bottom row 10% enlargement.
I'm told that SP's production department would prefer to go with the original graphics size due to the registration tolerances of their dye-sub printer. Of course, I like the bottom row because they look the most like my CG renders. I hope to check them out first-hand next week when I make my visit up north.
We will do those 5 keys at 10% larger so you can see. You are right, there is a big tolerance for registration with sublimation - 0.020 inches is the standard (where with 2 shot it is only 0.005 inches). There are too many variables with the sublimation process to guarantee the image accuracy any more than that.
The problem is with the red border. If centering is off a little on the original graphics, the red border will still rest entirely on the top of the keycap. But with the red borders that extend to the very outer edge, being off a little means the red border becomes badly distorted as it falls off the cliff, so to speak, on one or two sides.
So I was able to personally inspect the prototype samples shown in the last photograph above. They look really good in person, and we settled upon the middle row in terms of graphics size.
The next step is for them to run off a full set and send it to me for inspection and approval. Given how good these early samples have turned out, I don't expect to run into many issues, if any.
Currently, it looks like SP is aiming to make G20 Semiotic the January set of the month. :thumb:
So I was able to personally inspect the prototype samples shown in the last photograph above. They look really good in person, and we settled upon the middle row in terms of graphics size.
The next step is for them to run off a full set and send it to me for inspection and approval. Given how good these early samples have turned out, I don't expect to run into many issues, if any.
Currently, it looks like SP is aiming to make G20 Semiotic the January set of the month. :thumb:
That looks amazing. I feel like I would have to wear a uniform to use that keyboard.BTW, this is how the keyboards looked in Space:1999:
So I was able to personally inspect the prototype samples shown in the last photograph above. They look really good in person, and we settled upon the middle row in terms of graphics size.
The next step is for them to run off a full set and send it to me for inspection and approval. Given how good these early samples have turned out, I don't expect to run into many issues, if any.
Currently, it looks like SP is aiming to make G20 Semiotic the January set of the month. :thumb:
Currently, it looks like SP is aiming to make G20 Semiotic the January set of the month. :thumb:
No news yet. I am still waiting to receive the first full prototype set for inspection.
No news yet. I am still waiting to receive the first full prototype set for inspection.
I'm ready to buy; but if this were set of the month for February my wallet would not complain. :D
Are there still no ISO-Enters with G20 profile?
Yeah sad. But G20 are so cheap compared to dsa an saAre there still no ISO-Enters with G20 profile?
That is correct. And there may never be. The demonstrated demand is simply too low.
We're approaching the mid-point of January and I'm getting antsy for this set to appear on PMK. What boards are y'all gonna put this set on? I feel like I need to pick a board that's weird and beige.
We're approaching the mid-point of January and I'm getting antsy for this set to appear on PMK. What boards are y'all gonna put this set on? I feel like I need to pick a board that's weird and beige.
These are going on my K-Type; however that hasn't been released yet so if there are delays I won't be mad.
Where do biege cases come from these days?
Oooh. I would be interested in a symbol-set for the two function rows of my modified G80-11800.
The coffee symbol would go on the Pause key, of course.
I have got a Weyland-Yutani logo keycap in Cherry profile from a previous group buy that I may put in the ~ -key's position.That looks amazing. I feel like I would have to wear a uniform to use that keyboard.BTW, this is how the keyboards looked in Space:1999:
(Attachment Link)
Many of the crew on Space:1999 that worked on special effects and on props worked later on Alien. Both were shot outside London, at Pinewood and Shepperton studios, respectively.
From what I have seen the keyboards in Alien had high-profile caps with spherical surfaces.
Mother's keyboard was also ortholinear, spherical keys, all the same "row" with 2u keys on the two lowest rows.
Where do biege cases come from these days?
Good question. I have an F62 on the way in Spring to scratch that retro beige itch, but I have no idea where to get something chunky and beige for MX. I mean, you could paint a coolermaster board on the cheap but it needs to be more interesting. I'm going to have to investigate more.
Maybe a good time to revisit the CLASSIC 60!
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85596.msg2294829#msg2294829
It definitely needs some added thickness on the bezels.
I'm tossing this on a white case. Not many beige coming up these days, but some champagne anodized cases though..
My Planck hipro case (the A case one) will come in beige, hopefully :pI was just about to post in your thread lol...
I'm tossing this on a white case. Not many beige coming up these days, but some champagne anodized cases though..
Darn you, that's a brilliant idea
Where do biege cases come from these days?
Good question. I have an F62 on the way in Spring to scratch that retro beige itch, but I have no idea where to get something chunky and beige for MX. I mean, you could paint a coolermaster board on the cheap but it needs to be more interesting. I'm going to have to investigate more.
Maybe a good time to revisit the CLASSIC 60!
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85596.msg2294829#msg2294829 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85596.msg2294829#msg2294829)
It definitely needs some added thickness on the bezels.
Where do biege cases come from these days?
Good question. I have an F62 on the way in Spring to scratch that retro beige itch, but I have no idea where to get something chunky and beige for MX. I mean, you could paint a coolermaster board on the cheap but it needs to be more interesting. I'm going to have to investigate more.
Maybe a good time to revisit the CLASSIC 60!
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85596.msg2294829#msg2294829 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=85596.msg2294829#msg2294829)
It definitely needs some added thickness on the bezels.
The manufacturers should start re-igniting the Beige Craze again because I would love to add few dozen more keyboards to my collection having that colour.
We all need some more Beige Love here instead of always being hit by all Black or White keyboards, like a never ending production of Blacks on Whites at Dog Fart Studio's ::) .
As a color, beige really doesn't complement the white keys in this set.
It also doesn't fit in with the futuristic aesthetic.
A white, black, or metallic case would look much better than beige with this set.
Here are a couple of very quick potatos:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
why do I feel the urge to buy a numpad :confused:
I gave SP the go-ahead to run the set. Should be on the PMK store before too long.
I gave SP the go-ahead to run the set. Should be on the PMK store before too long.
I gave SP the go-ahead to run the set. Should be on the PMK store before too long.:thumb:
Here are a couple of very quick potatos:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Yep, Jan 23rd:
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
also some more Granite available soon
what's the inspiration for this design
Yep, Jan 23rd:
http://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
also some more Granite available soon
Anybody know if we can hold our PMK order or not? I like to grab Semiotic ASAP but I need some of Granite too. So holding the Semiotic to combine it with Granite later for the shipping is a godsend.
It's up. Says "Out of Stock", but at least you can see the sets and pricing.WELP. Looks like my wallet's going to have to steel itself for a $116 gutpunch. :p
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/g20-semiotic-keycap-set/
It's the 23rd and still out of stock.Don't forget the difference in time zones. SP isn't awake yet. :P
I'm not sure how this can be "set of the month" with only 9 days remaining...
It's live!!
I cannot believe this coincedence! :eek:
Today (i have to stress this), today i was browsing for Semiotic Standard graphics (since i was thinking about making my own iconset for Windows), and i stumbled upon this thread. I saw these great renders and then, the thing goes on sale? Today!? Well… I have to have this!
However, i seem to be a bit dense on the topic, so maybe one of you can help me out: What exactly does “G20” mean? It’s probably a standard for mechanical keys, right? But what keyboards do they work with? I consulted Dr. Google, but he wasn’t too helpful today, i’m afraid. Any kind of basic insight would be helpful.
Also, when i go to the PMK store page (it’s my first time there), i’d have to add all those options (Symbols, Mods, etc.) for one complete set, correct? (If it’s of any importance, i’m based in Austria, where we have the default German layout.)
Thanks in advance!
Oh and… Hello everyone, and fantastic work, zslane!
GOD DAMNIT. Yesterday my car broke down. Mechanics said i'm looking at $380 parts and labor to fix a throttle sensor.
$9.25 shipping USPS priority for me, 5 sets. Cheap, no? Assuming no tray.
GOD DAMNIT. Yesterday my car broke down. Mechanics said i'm looking at $380 parts and labor to fix a throttle sensor.Show Image(http://i.giphy.com/3otPotnGlA5FSF2fKw.gif)
Looks like I won't be buying a set after all...
That is why I still keep older cars from 1970 to 1986. No integration of electronics with the engines or transmissions, that is why all my vehicles always run under any circumstance.
Newer garbage gets fixed at our workshops and it keeps us in business 24/7, thank gawd for easy money :thumb: .
Which kits were you planning to buy, mogo?Honestly, I was going to buy all of the sets for a full-size. No ergo or extras. Enough to swap around to any of my boards, regardless of size. C'est la vie... :rolleyes:
Honestly, I was going to buy all of the sets for a full-size. No ergo or extras. Enough to swap around to any of my boards, regardless of size. C'est la vie... :rolleyes:
With this particular set we will print to order, like we do with our standard DSA sets, Stealth, Ice Cap and a few others (as long as you allow us to run it). So there really isn’t a need for you to stockpile a few.
Honestly, I was going to buy all of the sets for a full-size. No ergo or extras. Enough to swap around to any of my boards, regardless of size. C'est la vie... :rolleyes:
Well, the good news is that I don't think you will have to miss out on this, even if you won't have the funds for a while. I was going to order some sets myself and keep them on hand so folks who missed out could get them from me, but Bob at SP indicated that won't be necessary. This is what he said:QuoteWith this particular set we will print to order, like we do with our standard DSA sets, Stealth, Ice Cap and a few others (as long as you allow us to run it). So there really isn’t a need for you to stockpile a few.
With this particular set we will print to order, like we do with our standard DSA sets, Stealth, Ice Cap and a few others (as long as you allow us to run it). So there really isn’t a need for you to stockpile a few.
But did you allow them to continously restocking these beauties?
Just got mine today! Looks amazing.
Just got mine today! Looks amazing.
Nice! Mine are supposed to be here today. I'm putting my on a poker as well for now. Can't wait to spend my afternoon arranging the legends :)
Just got mine today! Looks amazing.Pretty cool! Though you need to rotate the second key from the top (“Exhaust”, that is your number 1 key) 90° to the right ;)
Also, a nice unexpected bonus is that I found G20 to be pretty fun to type on. In fact, I just broke my typing record and managed to do it 5 times in a row. I really think these legends make the profile look a lot nicer though. Great work, zslane!
Show Image(https://i.reddituploads.com/b2ea453c159441248b28844ce3f1cd5d?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=46dd699cccf77a031eb245548a643530)
Show Image(https://i.reddituploads.com/b2ea453c159441248b28844ce3f1cd5d?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=46dd699cccf77a031eb245548a643530)
Show Image(https://i.reddituploads.com/b2ea453c159441248b28844ce3f1cd5d?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=46dd699cccf77a031eb245548a643530)
Show Image(http://imgur.com/6BzYfQu.jpg)Show Image(http://imgur.com/2FgtSOk.jpg)
Semiotic on my RS96.
Show Image(http://imgur.com/6BzYfQu.jpg)Show Image(http://imgur.com/2FgtSOk.jpg)
Semiotic on my RS96.
Show Image(https://i.reddituploads.com/b2ea453c159441248b28844ce3f1cd5d?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=46dd699cccf77a031eb245548a643530)
Show Image(https://i.reddituploads.com/b2ea453c159441248b28844ce3f1cd5d?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=46dd699cccf77a031eb245548a643530)
Beat me to it! Atreus was one of the first things I was thinking of using this set on.
Looks great and I applaud you taste in keyboards.
Perhaps a future iteration with a white-acrylic body to match? That's a combination I've fantasized about.
Also I don't think the black case goes too well w/ the white caps...
To make the gaps disappear, you might need the keys themselves to also get lighting from on top.
Right, so not really going to happen :( unless they had semi translucent g20 caps to dye sub.
Then the backlighting might work
I guess SP doesn't have G20 molds for vertical 2u caps? I'm sure we talked about it sometime, but I had forgotten.
I guess SP doesn't have G20 molds for vertical 2u caps? I'm sure we talked about it sometime, but I had forgotten.
You are correct on both counts. ;)
Mini Semiotic
(Attachment Link)
More pictures
(http://www.40percent.club/2017/03/white-panda-alien-gherkin-rainbow.html)