Author Topic: [Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.  (Read 4548 times)

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Offline rodtang

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 16:48:16 »
Here it is, starting at 100$ with no bids and two hours left.

Offline himynameisbunny

  • Posts: 154
[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 17:17:35 »
Tempted. The low feedback, multiple negs and the fact that the picture is amoeba-sized is putting me off though.

It's strange - my favorite switch is Red because they're so light and smooth yet BS are so much fun, and I still want one. I just have no use for it...
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Offline rodtang

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 18:05:58 »
Quote from: himynameisbunny;466720
I just have no use for it...

Buy them all then sell them for 10x what they are worth.

Offline rodtang

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 18:08:04 »
Quote from: himynameisbunny;466720
Tempted. The low feedback, multiple negs

"100% Positive feedback" The what?

Offline Bongoojingie

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 18:15:59 »
Quote from: rodtang;466737
"100% Positive feedback" The what?

Yeah, it says 100% positive, but if you check it here you will see the multiple negative feedback.  It's all over a year old, but I still won't chance it.
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Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 18:22:01 »
Quote
Crook..paid right after auction..nothing won't even return a e-mail a Crook..   
Member id poncho49 ( Feedback Score Of 130Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499)
   May-03-04 18:11
   

    Reply by datafarm2011 (Jun-08-04 23:14):
    Tracked item -- it was shipped and delivered -- beware of this one !!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
real#&*@!-Got paid, Never shipped,Denied transaction, 6 wks for refund...Beware   
Member id woody7135 ( Feedback Score Of 246Teal star icon for feedback score in between 100 to 499)
   Sep-29-03 13:02
   

    Reply by datafarm2011 (Oct-22-03 18:15):
    Buyer changed mind-Refund processed...Very volatile customer??...Beware!!

    -- (#3425500577)

Quote
Item advertised as working/well packed/did not work out of box & not fixable   
Member id 10820552@deleted ( Feedback Score Of 8 )

No longer a registered user   Apr-17-03 18:43
   

    Reply by datafarm2011 (Apr-21-03 07:21):
    Electronic calculator shipped to buyer in good working condition.

    -- (#3009803086)

Hardly 100% positive feedback.
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Offline Sam

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 19:35:28 »
Sold for $106.50.  Ripster, what do you have to say about that?  Are SSK prices going down?

Offline himynameisbunny

  • Posts: 154
[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 19:46:55 »
Quote from: Sam;466783
Ripster, what do you have to say about that?  Are SSK prices going down?

The supply and demand curve really only dictates S&D if all other things remain constant.

Considering this seller had terrible feedback and a dodgy pic it doesn't really apply here.

The buyer will probably get what they pay for. Although if they don't I will stand corrected.
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Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 19:50:43 »
Quote from: ripster;466794
I already have KL accusing me of being a lowlife loser.

I hardly see how doing what you enjoy all day counts as being a loser. As long as you got the dosh to pay the bills that's all that matters.

I just think he's being a big girls blouse.
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Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 20:04:28 »
You've been setting it off everywhere else. I'm going to assume you've received a warning about it then?
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Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 20:18:43 »
Quote from: ripster;426947
One of the most common questions at Geekhack/Deskthority/OCN is what do I do to get rid of that ****ing mouse squeak on my keyboard spacebar.  ****, it's like I'm expressing ****ing Micky Mouse's anal glands every time I hit the ****ing key!

Maybe that was before the censor came in.
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Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 20:23:28 »
Not if it's been edited since! That's in your gallons of spooge thread.

Speaking of which, I'm amazed that we haven't managed to woo more Koreans into sharing their keyboard secrets. They seem to be a couple of steps ahead of GH in terms of keyboard science.

Really need somebody to find and translate a post regarding what spooge they use/how they apply/etc
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Offline Sam

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 20:30:54 »
Quote from: ripster;466794
Exactly.  That's why I didn't post the Supply/Demand pic.

Plus I'm getting tired of Sam yelling at me.

I already have KL accusing me of being a lowlife loser.

Ah, so just when do you determine if the Supply/Demand pic is appropriate?  Last week when the last of several Model M's, a quite dirty one at that, sold for less than the others it was interpreted as meaning the price goes down if you put up multiple listings for the same item (ie. Supply and Demand).  This week when a SSK sells for less, it doesn't mean anything because of the seller/pic.  Point is it's all very subjective comparing one auction to another, due to these variables.  So a single sale or a couple of sales don't really say a whole lot about price trends (Supply and Demand).  It takes a lot of sales where the subjective variables would likely average out to attempt to say something about the trend.

Just a friendly thought to point out the limitations of the Supply/Demand curve, not at all trying to yell at Ripster or anything like that.  I appreciate his and most others' opinions here, regardless if I agree or not.

Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 20:38:15 »
Supply and demand is a economical tool to determine the equilibrium price at which something can be sold.

It generally applies to any good or service, however judging from what I took out of my macroeconomics subject I just passed at Uni it generally is used to judge new goods or commodities.

With the SSK market there is plenty of demand but no supply. There isn't going to be much, if any, demand for a very vaguely described, pictured, and oddly listed SSK. Therefore the equilibrium price would be much lower, to the point that it actually sells.
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Offline Sam

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 21:07:50 »
Quote from: himynameisbunny;466831
With the SSK market there is plenty of demand but no supply.

Oh, there is a supply, but when the typical selling price is low, the supply is normally a small and infrequent trickle.  When the price starts going up, the SSK's start coming out of the woodwork and there's a pretty steady stream of them, until the market gets saturated and the price starts dropping.  Of course that's a very general statement about what I've observed and I'm sure you could find lots of exceptions to it.  For example, if someone comes across a mini hoard of them and decides to sell them all at once, regardless of the price, it could cause a quite noticeable dip in the price trend.

I think the S&D model does apply to used goods as well as new goods.  It's just that there's lots of other subjective factors in the used goods market, so it's not nearly so easy to determine where you are on the S&D curve.  And with such a small market to begin with the market price will have much wider swings.  Even for new items, there's subjective factors, such as brand loyalty, perceived quality, etc.  So regardless of if the items are new or used, the S&D curve can never accurately account 100% for pricing trends.  Of course the more commodity-like the item is, the less those subjective factors will come into play.
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 December 2011, 21:10:52 by Sam »

Offline dorkvader

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:05:53 »
The real limitation of the S&D model whose graph ripster likes to put up is that it assumes some conditions that ripster doesn't. He is committing a logical fallacy. You can't just ignore assumptions of a theorem, especially when some are wrong (see [1] , [2] below)

See, the S&D model assumes a ceteris paribus condition (all else being the same) that is almost never satisfied in real life (except in commodities markets, etc.) The lack of this condition being satisfied means that the "true" model has error: expressed in the deviance from the prior sales. It might still mean that demand is diminishing, but it could also mean that there is enough error in the model is now great enough that it can't be statistically valid conclusion.

Speaking of statistics brings me to a second point: size of the data set. See, the S&D model also assumes one is applying it to an ideal, large data set. It is really only useful for tracking trends, but the utility is significantly reduced when one is monitoring a small data set. We cannot make conclusions about the market with confidence until we have more data. If ripster is happy with his conclusion, I am saddened by the vastness of the confidence interval on it (probably something like 35%)

These two assumptions that the S&D model takes combine to reduce the value of his conclusion (or any other one really, for example ,I can't take this and say "the demand is increasing" either) quite a bit below any sort of useful or rational level.

I would also like to note that he makes the logical fallacy of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" ("After this, therefore because of this") relatively often as well, and would do good to avoid it in the future.

Other fallacies to note (courtesy of the great wikipedia):
Ludic fallacy [1]
Fallacy of the single cause [2]
Regression Fallacy [3]

[1] and [2] correspond with the use of the S&D graph and principle. [3] refers to the usage in the second point above.

I would also note that ripster's arguments from repetition (Ad Nauseum) are generally also annoying.

Finally: I would like to agree with "sam" and note that my first name [shortened] is "Sam".

Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:13:50 »
Does this mean I win?
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Offline Sam

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:27:41 »
Quote from: himynameisbunny;466905
Does this mean I win?

Not really, at least as far as I'm concerned.  I know what the deal is with the S&D curve, as dorkvader so clearly stated, and that I agree with.  But I don't really see these discussions as a win/lose contest.  Of course, that's just me, and I realize some people do see it in win/lose terms.

Sometimes I give Ripster a hard time with regard to his S&D curve, and sometimes I go along with it.  I take it he's just having a bit of fun with it, so why not?  Perhaps sometimes I come across as being too serious, when in actuality talking about keyboards here is little more than a way to spend a few moments of leisure time.  I tend not to get worked up over any poster, even if their posts aren't necessarily totally accurate.  I can only think of two posters who I think the board would be better off without, and that's because they just seem to only post inane drivel.  Haven't seen them around much lately though, so they aren't really bothering me any these days, and if they do come back I'll just try to ignore them.  Ripster seems to know a lot about keyboards, and while I realize he gets on some people's nerves, I find it's just best to read his posts if they're about a topic that interests me, and ignore them if they're about a topic that doesn't.  Same really with all posters.

Offline alaricljs

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:33:13 »
Truly that is one of the things you get yelled at less for these days... plenty of other things you've been getting yelled at for.
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Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:35:32 »
Quote from: Sam;466912
I can only think of two posters who I think the board would be better off without, and that's because they just seem to only post inane drivel.

Speaking of people getting angry at people can somebody please explain the whole webwit leaving here thing to me? I haven't been able to figure it out
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Offline Sam

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:38:17 »
Quote from: dorkvader;466902
Finally: I would like to agree with "sam" and note that my first name [shortened] is "Sam".

Cool. It's a great name, isn't it? :)

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #21 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:39:48 »
Uuh, random guess with little research:  webwit is always right and won't suffer fools (or anyone else really) lightly.

edit: woohoo.. perhaps I'm wrong?
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Offline Sam

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:43:33 »
Quote from: himynameisbunny;466922
Speaking of people getting angry at people can somebody please explain the whole webwit leaving here thing to me? I haven't been able to figure it out

Webwit left just about the time I arrived, so I don't know the full history of his posts or the exact reason he left.  Saw something though it had to do with he didn't agree with the way a certain forum was being moderated.  Seems it was quite easy to get him excited about things.  Not that there's anything wrong with that kind of a personality - everybody is different.  But I guess those kinds of people often don't last long on forums where they aren't in control.  A loss for this board in my opinion, being Webwit, along with Ripster seem to me to be two of the most knowledgeable people about keyboards.  Not trying to belittle anyone else who's way up there as well in their knowledge of the subject.  It's just that if someone had a question about keyboards, chances were that Ripster and/or Webwit would know the answer.

Offline Sam

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:50:32 »
Only because Webwit is in Europe where nickles aren't so readily available. :)

Offline himynameisbunny

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 23:59:52 »
Doesn't he avoid the ripOmeter like the plague? Says it's too unscientific or something.

I have seen a post lying around to that effect.
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Offline dorkvader

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 12:32:44 »
Quote from: himynameisbunny;466940
Doesn't he avoid the ripOmeter like the plague? Says it's too unscientific or something.

I have seen a post lying around to that effect.
Yes, I also am dubious about the application of the dithering technique here, but without having done experiments myself, I'm going to remain ambivalent. ripOmeter is very good for people to have a readily available way to estimate the strength of the springs, and is especially useful if a person has a rare keyboard, and no scientific gear on hand to measure it with.

Ripster is again wrong: he hasn't been yelled at 100% of the time for posting that S&D curve graphic, but given the unscientific-ness of his posts (and, apparently, thinking) I suppose his naiveté can be excused.

@Sam; A good name, Indeed! I love my parents even more for that very reason.

Offline KillerBee

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 07 January 2012, 22:07:20 »
Simply put lets say the reason WEBWIT left is because of me... he got pissed off because I did not agree to sell him the Oldest Model M in the World, which is now sitting in a foreign paradise and in SAM's hands...
IBM Model M 1386304 Nov. 1985

Offline KillerBee

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 07 January 2012, 22:34:23 »
thats why iMav and myself always thought... but then again I believe more in you rip than I do my mother so you must be right
IBM Model M 1386304 Nov. 1985

Offline Internetlad

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[Ebay.com] IBM Model M Space saver.
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 12 January 2012, 17:15:28 »
Kim Jong Il?
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