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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Kamen Rider Blade on Fri, 24 January 2014, 19:58:20
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Personally I don't have enough experience to say I've tried all the major variants.
From what I can tell Cherry Stabilizers are very nice because if you bust the plastic tabs, you can always buy replacements and insert them
Any stabilizer system that is easily and cheapily user fixable is a thumbs up IMO.
No clue about Costar Stabilizers.
Some of the cheapo rubber dome keyboards have ok stabilizers, but I don't like how the clip for the wire is built into the frame of some keyboards, if you bust the clip, you have nothing to mount the wire.
Any thoughts from those who have more experience?
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Like everything keyboard, everything is preference
layouts, stabilizer type, switch type.......
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Like everything keyboard, everything is preference
layouts, stabilizer type, switch type.......
WRONG. Ask TP for the correct answers.
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Hasn't this kind of thread been made multiple times?
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Like everything keyboard, everything is preference
layouts, stabilizer type, switch type.......
WRONG. Ask TP for the correct answers.
Why I'd never....
(http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/totally-naughty-panda-emoticon-2.gif)
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It is all preference. I tried both, I like Costar stabilizers better. But I can understand both sides to the argument. The Costar stabilizer are a little more hassle if you want to replace the keycaps, and they are kind of loose and kind of rattle a little (at least they do on the boards I have used). However, they do sort of have that more "snappy" feel that is more consistent with the rest of the keyboard. Cherry stabilizers on the other hand are in comparison not quite as snappy (some call them "mushy" which is not entirely fair) but they have a more solid feel when pressed.
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Why are you starting all these discussion threads that have been done over and over and over again? :-X
Google or search the website first :confused:
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Best is costar, no questions asked
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Best is costar, no questions asked
Quite an ignorant statement to make if you aren't just messing around.
Both have their ins and outs...
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Best is costar, no questions asked
Quite an ignorant statement to make if you aren't just messing around.
Both have their ins and outs...
The only real advantage to Cherry-style is ease of removal...
In terms of function... Coaster is just smoother.. less surface area to grind against each other.
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Best is costar, no questions asked
Quite an ignorant statement to make if you aren't just messing around.
Both have their ins and outs...
The only real advantage to Cherry-style is ease of removal...
In terms of function... Coaster is just smoother.. less surface area to grind against each other.
It also makes less noise and doesn't wobble nearly as much. I am very neutral on which I prefer.
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Best is costar, no questions asked
Quite an ignorant statement to make if you aren't just messing around.
Both have their ins and outs...
The only real advantage to Cherry-style is ease of removal...
In terms of function... Coaster is just smoother.. less surface area to grind against each other.
It also makes less noise and doesn't wobble nearly as much. I am very neutral on which I prefer.
the wobble is good, it means less friction
noise... that's probably cuz less downward energy / momentum is lost with Costar stabilizers.. vs Cherry where because more energy is lost to friction....
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I dislike costar because of those evil little inserts.
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NO STABILIZERS
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I dislike costar because of those evil little inserts.
I think of them as minicons and when combined, they power up my spacebars..
---yea... I went there.....(http://www.emotasia.com/wp-content/uploads/totally-naughty-panda-emoticon-29.gif)
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I find Cherry slightly more mushy than Costar, but not so much that it bothers me.
Cherry are easier to swap keycaps, provided the longer keycaps (especially space and right Shift) are perfectly straight. Cherry are not very forgiving for bent keycaps.
Costar are more forgiving of misaligned keycaps, but are a lot more fiddly to swap keycaps, especially if the inserts are really tight. I've nearly lost a couple of finger nails trying to get them out.
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Costa:
Pros: high level of responsiveness, smooth
Cons: harder to maintain, replace keycaps, easy to get stuck with incompatible keycaps
Cherry:
Pros: easy to replace keycap, easier to maintain
Cons: lower level of responsiveness
How to overcome the weaknesses of both Costa and Cherry?
For Costa stabilizers:
Step 1: Buy a bunch of backup stabilizers inserts, clips ... from WASD to backup just in case you lose them
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/
Step 2: Lube the stabilizers with High Viscosity lube like Mechlube 1 from Elitekeyboard
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube
Step 3: Use Teflon tape to buffer when you have incompatible keycap stems (like SP DSA spacebar) but don't forget to put the inserts as close as possible to the keycap
For Cherry stabilizers:
Step 1: Lube the stabilizers with Low Viscosity lube like Mechlube 2 from Elitekeyboard
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube_2
Step 2: Use Teflon tape to buffer when you have loose keycap stems
Step 3 (optional): Clip the stabilizer
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I have used primarily costar stabilizers on all my keyboards, but I do get kind of annoyed at how often the larger keys rattle. Even after lubing them. I had to resort to the tape trick on my spacebar, but have yet to do it on the other keys. For those who use cherry stabilizer boards on a daily basis, do you find any high pitched rattling after long periods of use?
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So the little feet or whatever that you cut off... What is their purpose to begin with?
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So the little feet or whatever that you cut off... What is their purpose to begin with?
so it doesn't hit the pcb at full force and dampens it
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Cherry PCB mount iz da best!! :thumb: Don't have to mess with those silly plastic inserts and they feel right.
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Am I the only one around here who doesn't feel any difference between stabilizer brands?
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Well, my cherry stabilizers do feel a little different from the other keys, but nothing that would bother me during use... And I use shift for caps. :p
I have nothing to compare, though. I accept donations. :rolleyes:
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I use costar for spacebar (partly because getting wires is like impossible. I think every custom bent wire I've ever tried has not worked at all) and cherry for the rest of the modifiers.
But it's really just a matter of perference. They both have their plusses and minuses.
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Costar feels a bit better, but I really don't think the difference is very significant - both works perfectly fine for me.
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I find the whole "Costar is more work to replace the keycaps" a bit of a non-issue for me personally.
While they are a little more hassle, I do not think it is that annoying or that much more work. I also do not often take them off and put them back on. Maybe once every 6 months to clean the keyboard or something.
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I also do not often take them off and put them back on. Maybe once every 6 months to clean the keyboard or something.
But a lot of people here seems to be cycling through keycap sets every hour or so. :p
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Am I the only one around here who doesn't feel any difference between stabilizer brands?
I don't feel that much difference, not enough to make me prefer one over the other based on feel.
In fact on a blindfold test I probably would not be able to feel the difference between a good Cherry and a poor Costar.
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Am I the only one around here who doesn't feel any difference between stabilizer brands?
I don't feel that much difference, not enough to make me prefer one over the other based on feel.
In fact on a blindfold test I probably would not be able to feel the difference between a good Cherry and a poor Costar.
except for the rattle/wobble! lol
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Am I the only one around here who doesn't feel any difference between stabilizer brands?
I don't feel that much difference, not enough to make me prefer one over the other based on feel.
In fact on a blindfold test I probably would not be able to feel the difference between a good Cherry and a poor Costar.
except for the rattle/wobble! lol
Maybe.
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Is Cherry clipping feel better? :)
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placebo
it's another "the koreans did it so it must be right"
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Pcb mount cherry stabs as of right now
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placebo
it's another "the koreans did it so it must be right"
So wrong it's not even funny
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placebo
it's another "the koreans did it so it must be right"
So wrong it's not even funny
I would have to agree with the beast on this one. Before Christmas I had my Das (costar), Filco TKL (costar), and a Ducky full size (cherry). My wife is not really into mech boards. She couldn't really care less either way what she typed on. Although she does like her Filco with blacks. I had her try the Ducky with reds and cherry stabs quick before I wrapped it up. As soon as she hit the space bar she let out a little yelp and jerked her hands back like a big tarantula just crawled over the back of her hands. This is zero exaggeration. She definatly felt the difference and did not like it one bit. Granted these weren't clipped. She has however typed a bit on one of my WYSE boards that has cherry stabs but doesn't have the feet to clip. Wasn't part of the mold as there is nothing on the bottom to even suggest that they had ever been clipped and she didn't mind those.
My personal feelings on this is I can't stand non clipped cherry stabs but clipped cherrys = Costar in terms of feeling. The little bit of subtle difference between clipped cherry and costar stabs is very minimal. I doubt I could tell the difference in a blind test. But non clipped cherrys I could tell on the first key stroke.
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Costar stabs. I think they feel the most solid of all MX stabilizers. I've been changing caps on Costar for so long I've got a good system down. I much prefer a solid stabilizer with little wiggle room.
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Costar stabs. I think they feel the most solid of all MX stabilizers. I've been changing caps on Costar for so long I've got a good system down. I much prefer a solid stabilizer with little wiggle room.
Don't you have that backwards? I don't think anyone feels Costar is more solid..they wobble and rattle a bit more. People prefer them because they don't change the feel of the keystroke.
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for spacebar i think both have same feel
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Honestly... I prefer the Cherry stabilizers. People don't like them because they are "mushy", but that's exactly what I like about them. It's not that I actually want ALL my keys to be mushy, but I just like the contrast that having it on the modifiers gives, from the alpha keys.
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After using kbtalking race for over a year and now gone back to my noppoo choc mini(first version), i enjoy the spacebar in my noppoo better. Dont know which type it is though.
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Honestly... I prefer the Cherry stabilizers. People don't like them because they are "mushy", but that's exactly what I like about them. It's not that I actually want ALL my keys to be mushy, but I just like the contrast that having it on the modifiers gives, from the alpha keys.
This really says it more than anything else - it is subjective. What one person likes, another might loathe. And yet another might be indifferent to.
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Where can i get/buy costar stabilizer for my keyboard?
I come from EU, therefore shipping three stabilizer isn`t that worth from US.
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Where can i get/buy costar stabilizer for my keyboard?
I come from EU, therefore shipping three stabilizer isn`t that worth from US.
WASDkeyboards i think shipping is cheaper :)
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I prefer cherry. Costar feel a bit wobbly to me (at least in the 4-5 boards I've tried them on) compared to cherry. But hey, to each their own.
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Lubed Costar is the way to go for me. I have Cherry on my Pure, but Costar just feels more solid, smooth, and way less wobbly to me. Cherry isn't bad, but it's isn't amazing either.
It's all personal preference, but the fact that there are mods to make Cherry feel more like Costar and not vice versa kind of tells you which is better in general.
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There are also differences if you are making your own keyboard with Cherry MX switches:
PCB only: Cherry's PCB-mounted stabilisers is your only option. Two drill holes for mounting. Easy to remove and mount stabilisers and mod sliders.
Plate only: Costar-style stabilisers have simpler mounting holes than Cherry stabilisers. You could almost make the holes by hand.
If we are looking at not only Cherry MX switches but at keyboards in general, the gold standard is Topre: the stabiliser is built into the switch. Even the 1.75 keys are stabilised. Only the space bar has extra sliders.
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There are also differences if you are making your own keyboard with Cherry MX switches:
PCB only: Cherry's PCB-mounted stabilisers is your only option. Two drill holes for mounting. Easy to remove and mount stabilisers and mod sliders.
Plate only: Costar-style stabilisers have simpler mounting holes than Cherry stabilisers. You could almost make the holes by hand.
If we are looking at not only Cherry MX switches but at keyboards in general, the gold standard is Topre: the stabiliser is built into the switch. Even the 1.75 keys are stabilised. Only the space bar has extra sliders.
Stepped caps lock is alternative without stabs :-X
i think so MX 1.75 need stabs,quite wooble :))
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6175/6143967636_e425854552_b.jpg
unfortunately hhkb no stabs on 1.75
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8044/8103019712_bc9fa4b3ee_h.jpg
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I don't have much experience with Costar. I tried them on a Blackwidow one time, but I liked them. I much preferred them to the cherry stabilizers I had at the time, which were on a Ducky Shine and were very mushy when bottoming out. My current MX keyboard has much better Cherry stabilizers though. I don't know if they are as good as Costar, but they are not very mushy at all. They feel almost like the other keys.
Topre stabilizers are the best though, no question. They almost feel better than the regular keys.
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PCB mount cherry stabs...
The best feel, easy cap switching, low noise, low wobble.
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PCB mount cherry stabs...
The best feel, easy cap switching, low noise, low wobble.
The last two boards I've built have been my first foray into PCB mount stabilizers. I do like how easy it is to change caps, and the feel is fine if you clip them, but I've had a different experience regarding noise: they're quite loud and clicky, both on the way down and back up. I've fixed it by lubing in the right places, but if you had a plate that unfortunately can't be easily done once switches are all soldered.
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I have no preference other than to proper alignment + lubrication. Both kinds can feel bad or very good, depending on alignment, how loose Costar stabilizer inserts fit in spacebar stems, etc. With careful tweaking, both types can be nice. I find Cherry stabilizes overall easier on my thumbs.
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I took all the costar stabilizers besides the space bar out of my XT and it feels just fine.
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PCB mount cherry stabs...
The best feel, easy cap switching, low noise, low wobble.
The last two boards I've built have been my first foray into PCB mount stabilizers. I do like how easy it is to change caps, and the feel is fine if you clip them, but I've had a different experience regarding noise: they're quite loud and clicky, both on the way down and back up. I've fixed it by lubing in the right places, but if you had a plate that unfortunately can't be easily done once switches are all soldered.
Hmm, all my plate mounted Costa stab boards are noisier, especially the spacebar...
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Just curious, I know that cherry and costar are the most common stabilizers, but are there any other more obscure stabilizers for cherry MX switches?
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I know of none outside of Costar and Cherry.
Alps, on the other hand, seem to be vendor specific.
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I like the stabilizers in topre boards best. The difference in feel/sound is next to nothing compared with cherry or costar, and there is almost no wobble.
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I like the stabilizers in topre boards best. The difference in feel/sound is next to nothing compared with cherry or costar, and there is almost no wobble.
It is exactly what I'm wondering when I see Cooler Master Novatouch TKL.
My curiosity is to know how they implement the stabilizers on that hybrid keyboard.
Can they reach to the level of Topre but also maintain the compatibility of Cherry MX?
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I like the stabilizers in topre boards best. The difference in feel/sound is next to nothing compared with cherry or costar, and there is almost no wobble.
It is exactly what I'm wondering when I see Cooler Master Novatouch TKL.
My curiosity is to know how they implement the stabilizers on that hybrid keyboard.
Can they reach to the level of Topre but also maintain the compatibility of Cherry MX?
Lets hope so, I am holding off on topre until cooler master does their thing. I want a TKL topre keyboard for sure, it has to be 55g but the realforce board doesn't look like a good match for me. I don't like how far it goes back after the f key row, similar but not as bad as a model m. And the styling is a bit meh to me. Hopefully cooler master can do it right and I can have a 55g topre with nice looking thick pbt keycaps :)
Little bit OT but sorry lol
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I like the stabilizers in topre boards best. The difference in feel/sound is next to nothing compared with cherry or costar, and there is almost no wobble.
It is exactly what I'm wondering when I see Cooler Master Novatouch TKL.
My curiosity is to know how they implement the stabilizers on that hybrid keyboard.
Can they reach to the level of Topre but also maintain the compatibility of Cherry MX?
Lets hope so, I am holding off on topre until cooler master does their thing. I want a TKL topre keyboard for sure, it has to be 55g but the realforce board doesn't look like a good match for me. I don't like how far it goes back after the f key row, similar but not as bad as a model m. And the styling is a bit meh to me. Hopefully cooler master can do it right and I can have a 55g topre with nice looking thick pbt keycaps :)
Little bit OT but sorry lol
Last I heard CoolerMaster is only dong 45g to start with and the rest will all depend on market demand and response to the initial offering.
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I like the stabilizers in topre boards best. The difference in feel/sound is next to nothing compared with cherry or costar, and there is almost no wobble.
It is exactly what I'm wondering when I see Cooler Master Novatouch TKL.
My curiosity is to know how they implement the stabilizers on that hybrid keyboard.
Can they reach to the level of Topre but also maintain the compatibility of Cherry MX?
Lets hope so, I am holding off on topre until cooler master does their thing. I want a TKL topre keyboard for sure, it has to be 55g but the realforce board doesn't look like a good match for me. I don't like how far it goes back after the f key row, similar but not as bad as a model m. And the styling is a bit meh to me. Hopefully cooler master can do it right and I can have a 55g topre with nice looking thick pbt keycaps :)
Little bit OT but sorry lol
Last I heard CoolerMaster is only dong 45g to start with and the rest will all depend on market demand and response to the initial offering.
Ugh, then I might need to get an 87u, I need my heavier switches.
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I like the stabilizers in topre boards best. The difference in feel/sound is next to nothing compared with cherry or costar, and there is almost no wobble.
It is exactly what I'm wondering when I see Cooler Master Novatouch TKL.
My curiosity is to know how they implement the stabilizers on that hybrid keyboard.
Can they reach to the level of Topre but also maintain the compatibility of Cherry MX?
I'm pretty sure they had topre-style stabs that looked MX compatible. I can post a pic when I'm not on my phone.
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I know of none outside of Costar and Cherry.
There are a few different styles. Most commonly seen is the one with stabilizer wire mounted on the keycap itself (that in itself have at least 2-3 different variations I've seen). It is kinda like a reverse Costar. And it feels terrible.
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I like the stabilizers in topre boards best. The difference in feel/sound is next to nothing compared with cherry or costar, and there is almost no wobble.
It is exactly what I'm wondering when I see Cooler Master Novatouch TKL.
My curiosity is to know how they implement the stabilizers on that hybrid keyboard.
Can they reach to the level of Topre but also maintain the compatibility of Cherry MX?
I'm pretty sure they had topre-style stabs that looked MX compatible. I can post a pic when I'm not on my phone.
Maybe you're mentioning about this picture, the one posted by CM representative on DT and GH?
(http://oi40.tinypic.com/157dndd.jpg)
It's quite good but I'm not really satisfied with it.
It only does help to increase my curiosity (Thanks CM representative :blank:)
I need to see more information about it, something like spring, structure and working mechanism.
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I know of none outside of Costar and Cherry.
Alps, on the other hand, seem to be vendor specific.
I know of none outside of Costar and Cherry.
There are a few different styles. Most commonly seen is the one with stabilizer wire mounted on the keycap itself (that in itself have at least 2-3 different variations I've seen). It is kinda like a reverse Costar. And it feels terrible.
Thanks Guys. I was just curious if there were some more comfortable obscure stabs, but it seems there aren't.