MsErgo4k+CherryBn+TenKeyLess+G15+FootSwith+Abs plastic fab+TEkeyStaggering

[Lanx]

Yes! i have the record for longest most informative mod.
Starting another ergo4k mod, i know i said i wouldn't but a few things came to mind.

Keeping it tenkeyless
But will try to fabricate the ends and make it "nicer looking" with abs plastic/bondo.
Making the G15 as the main controller w/ the macro's LCD pending... really have no option to put this thing
Going to use the G15 Usb hub in this mod this time.
Foot pedals, i got a 6$ tattoo foot pedal that i plan to hook up to one of the G15 macro's i'll prolly rewire it to accept a rj11 connection
Biggest change will be sorta copying the staggering idea from truelyergonomic/nostromo N52.

*edit*
ugh just learned r00tworm killed lots of pic links, here's an archiveweb link that has 80% of the other pics
http://web.archive.org/web/20140407134426/http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=12439.0

[Lanx]

ok here's the ergo 4k, and g80-8200


Disected


my initial model layout basically.


the overlay of the angled section, basically i'll have 4x5 keys for both left and right hands.


If anyone is interested this is how i'll keep the keys sectioned off so i don't loose my mind searching for "M" among 106 keys.


This is all just planning for now, i'll get into the nitty gritty modding later this week.

[kill will]

good luck dude. looks interesting.

[msiegel]

very cool -- go Lanx!

[Lanx]

included is the pic of the foot switch i'll be playing with, just some tattoo foot switch i found off of ebay for like 6bucks, i'll cut off the wire and use like a rj11 connection to the keyboard later on.
i've also got the g15 lcd and controller there, those are where i'll estimate that they'll be. The LCD i'll put right there on the attachment that gives the ergo4k it's negative slope.

[WhiteRice]

Lanx you have HUGE rats!

Seriously, you're pretty talented and I look forward to your work.

[didjamatic]

Good luck on the mod, if you pull it off that will be one nice board.  

Microsoft, you listening?

[Lanx]

lol no way am i talented, ppl just don't want to make a mech keyboard i'd want to buy! Trust me my V1 is pretty dirt ugly, i mean it functions like a dream but if a person who didn't know why it was modded that way would think that it was dropped from a 3story building and i tried to salvage it.

[Lanx]

Here's the work area, hakko is lovely btw man, got through desoldering so much quicker with a proper iron (that's the british in me).


here's my diy cherry switch removal tool, just bent a tweezer inwards, after like 10 switches i can open a switch in 3s.


here's something interesting i thought this g80 would have diodes like my previous one, nope, it's just a piece of wire, wth! they still solder it tho! now this irks me, more stuff to desolder that has no purpose!


I'm a horrible "hands on" guy i barely can draw with a ruler here's proof


Here's my first "left side" stagger done, this is the part that angles only.


Here's the completed set, had to re drill the holes, 19m apart, i think i did pretty good, only the /? looks kinda funky everything else looks nice imo.


can't do no dremeling tonite, neighbors and all and sleeping fiancee. I'll see if i can sneak in some mod time tomorrow.
(that's where i burn lot's of abs plastic)

[Lanx]

dremel+abs plastic=
FUMES
and messy messy


various tools i'm using, my dyson.
it's good to keep it on to suck up the dust
the datavac to blow the embedded grind dust away
(yea i know i got masking tape on my dyson, after 6 years of abuse, the hose is ripped up, and i can't find a decently priced replacement hose)


here's the dremeling out of the 2 slopes and the other areas, basically the 86 keys section.


oh noes! true ergonomic not shipping yet? here's a pre production model!
yea i'm NOT staggering it vertically, i was testing it out and really, there's no need to stagger column wise (and no i'm not being lazy look at what i've done already!)


it's already uping the truely ergonomic in that it has that built in middle slope, it already feels "right".
this is where the hard part comes in, figuring out where to drill holes to "keep" things in place.

[nanu]

I dunno man, I prefer the smell of melted plastic, over PCB dust.

The staple-like wires are jumpers. Useful for jumping across a maze of circuit traces. Diodes can go in place of them for a clean way to provide NKRO.

[Lanx]

to me, it seems like those traces are used to bridge the switches, the layout looks just like how i had the other g80 where one trace would connect to one switch. IMO they didn't want to use diodes, but they didn't want to retool a new pcb so they just put in the staple wires just so that the board could follow the design of the previous g80's without retracing a new board.

[Lanx]

forgot to mention surgical mask (i don't have a full blown bomb kit!) and long sleeves/pants heck i'm even wearing socks now when i do ABS dremeling, that flinging hot plastic on your skin will make you cry.

[Lanx]

crude paper template of the end side (tab/tilde/caps etc...)


needed to xfer couldn't figure out a nice way to do it good until i just thought hey why not dip the ends and in whiteout and transfer it to the board.
didn't have white out
but i knew fiancee had lots of nail polish!
score some white beige polish


have some stuff to do, so this is as far as i got, yea doesn't seem like much but i just had to trial and error fit that side board in, then i'll have to make another for the bottom side (ctrl/win/alt)

i'll prolly also make room to put 1 macro keyswitch near tilde
and one near alt since there's dead space i might as well make use of it (or hide it).

[msiegel]

good hacking technique

[zefrer]

I never thought I'd say this but I agree with Ripster. Gasp. Awesome stuff Lanx. Looking good.

[Lanx]

any ideas on making the pcb board look nice? i'd want to eventually fill in the holes (that i don't use) and paint it black (or something, spay can?).
also slightly debating using euro enter key (since i got used to it on my first mod) but doesn't seem likely since it was really made with stagger in mind.

[Lanx]

basically done cutting out the pcb boards, gonna use the nail polish dip method to finish up the rest of the switches.
(i might redo the left side, i kinda don't like it, but it fits really flush tho)
the blank keycaps are where i'll place my macro buttons (g15 has 6 macro buttons, i'll use 2 where the back/foward is on the keyboard i'll use microswitches for those). I think i'll replace the whole lower right row with macro switches, i don't ever remember using them (i might have the menu button around just in case) but i think i'll just make those macro buttons.

[zefrer]

any ideas on making the pcb board look nice? i'd want to eventually fill in the holes (that i don't use) and paint it black (or something, spay can?).

Yeah, how about a thin piece of some kind of plastic to fit in between key caps and PCB so the PCB is covered up. So you'd cut out gaps for the keycaps and top of the switch to fit through, fit the plastic on top of the switches sans keycaps and then put on the caps.

Might be too hard to do with just a dremel tho, if there is somewhere you can get it cut that'd be easier maybe.

[lowpoly]

it's good to keep it on to suck up the dust

Pcb cutting should be done outside. Pcbs are made of Formaldehyde. You don't want the dust airborne in your house.

But good work so far.

[Lanx]

Is that why my mouth tinges when I dremel? Serious question

[lowpoly]

Probably not. Formaldehyde is carcinogenic in higher dosages so better avoid it.

[Sam]

This is looking like one awesome mod.  Way to go!

[rantenki]

Pcb cutting should be done outside. Pcbs are made of Formaldehyde. You don't want the dust airborne in your house.

But good work so far.

Kinda true; those cheap phenolic boards release formaldehyde (and I believe the M$ 4k uses that kind), but decent quality boards are epoxy and glass.

[ricercar]

You're an inspiration with this mod, Lanx. Truly an adventure that's succeeding! When I see this I'm inspired to re-do my buckling spring HHKB Lite into Cherry Browns.

[Lanx]

Thanx for the kind words pplz.

these are the stupid millimeter intricate cuts i have to make to make em fit. Not to mention just shaving off micro meters.


i'm getting cuts all over my hands, i think i'll start wearing safety gloves, these aren't big cuts, just like large paper cuts, usuallyt he pcb and the wiring just manage to get caught in my skin, ouch.

a box of cherries.
only on this forum will this pic make any lick of sense.


No updates for the weekend really cuz well, it's significant other time heh. Actually i went and tried to drill a few pilot holes for my spacebar mod and she came in and was like, what are you doing spending so much time with this keyboard?
I'm like here try it out. and she was like "yea i hate it".
I don't think she hates the mech keys, she is using a ml4100 (cuz it's nice and compact) she really hates the ergo split so like i really know how my mod just seems really niche to most ppl.

btw was also playing with the idea of vertical shift button, just didn't feel right, i think i'll just stick to standard.
(will probably keep the center enter button and probably put a delete/backspace button on top of it too, i would like ideas!).
ideas on what center keys i should put in? i already put in the enter key for my v1 mod and i use it sparringly. I believe i can fit a max of 2 horizontal buttons in the middle (a tab size and then a regular size on top of it).

[Lanx]

Yeah, how about a thin piece of some kind of plastic to fit in between key caps and PCB so the PCB is covered up. So you'd cut out gaps for the keycaps and top of the switch to fit through, fit the plastic on top of the switches sans keycaps and then put on the caps.

Might be too hard to do with just a dremel tho, if there is somewhere you can get it cut that'd be easier maybe.

you mean like after i'm done with the pcb fitting, unsolder all the switches and fit some type of like saran wrap (but like plastic or soemthing) over it?

[zefrer]

Yeah but I was thinking maybe you can fit it around the switches without desoldering them.

[Lanx]

so i browsed around and found some epoxy, it's the kind where you rub,heat up and it changes color, pretty nasty stuff. but works great to fill in the holes for the pcb soon.


found some more uses for the nail polish, i did get reprimanded... fiancee said wth is my nail polish doing in the kitchen, then you could at least use old nail polish.
i paint the sections i want gone then i proceed to drill it out. It's a lot... "safer" than using a dremel, normally when i do the abs plastic with a dremel i have to wear goggles, a mask, a hat full length clothing. Mainly cuz the dremeling makes the abs plastic fly and when it flies it is like scorching 300degrees hot, drilling just takes a bit more hand holding really.


i basically cut out each pcb part, here you can sorta see the 3x3 cluster for the home/pgdn area and the 4 arrow key cluster.


the left side is looking awesome i got it done and will slap another macro key right next to the tilde. After getting the new key order i found that the slopped caps lock worked better for the board, since it is not actually slopped but it has less plastic and that's good cuz these keys slope up towards the middle and basically the caps lock key was kinda touch my pinky when resting, now with the indented caps lock, that doesn't happen.


the right side i done too, i did away with the right side menus and instead replaced them with the macro keys, i am having an issue if ppl can see, the backspace/insert are going to collide with each other.
This is an issue cuz any ergo keyboard the number "6" is usually on the left side, but with this one i found proper placement was really on the right side so moving that over, i have no room and basically i'm going to collide. I think i'll be cutting through the insert key since well, i barely use it anyone,
suggestions? i welcome them.

[Rajagra]

Swap CapsLock and Backspace? Or cut off a wedge from the right side of Backspace and fill in with that putty so the edge is vertical?

Looking great so far.

[Lanx]

i'm going for more of a "pimp" look this time so i want the board to look good i guess, so i want to keep the backspace, a backspace i guess my only real course is to mod out the insert key.

[Lanx]

i mthink i'll just move the += sign down near where Lctrl would be, this way i don't need to do super wierd cutting and its not like i touch type += anyway.

[msiegel]

go Lanx!

[Lanx]

i meant the rctrl, i kinda have to do this too cuz currently i'll have no pcb space for the stabilizers either. uh this flu making me not think right.

[Lanx]

i fashioned my middled section divider.


this is it installed and fitted on.


it looks better when i flip it over.
this one has 2 switches, my v1 had 1 switch, and it was ALOT easier, cuz i just had 1 vertical keycap and i could just screw it in, actually that mod took like 5mins. While this current mod took a while to figure out.


if you notice i actually dremeled out a slot to fit it on one end and then through the hole on the other, and the compression keeps everything together.
this is with the keycaps on, i won't use these particular caps, but the size is just right.

[Lanx]

went browsing at michaels (the arts and crafts store) and found nothing that could basically saran wrap over the boards, i have desoldered everything in anticipation for this but haven't found anything useful. I think i'll just end up spray painting the pcb boards black.

[lloyd]

Oh my. This mod is crazy, ridiculous, and completely awesome. Splendid work so far, sir.

[keyboardlover]

Agreed. Sexy mod Lanx!

[CodeChef]

I. DEMAND. MOAR!

This is incredible, I CAN'T WAIT to see this thing all done!

[Lanx]

so financee went to get a black friday haircut at the salon cuz it's 50% off, i decided to do some shopping at the local kmart


i'm so colorblind that when i bought it home my financee said, you know that's green right? (i thought it was flat black)
but it kinda works so whatever!
here's all the pcbs stripped and sanded


here's it sprayed
says it drys in 15, 1day for full set in.
smells like my old testors paint from when i was barely a teen. I'm not gonna lie i spray a few extra times just to remember the smell!


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

i gave the pcbs a second coat and sprayed the edges more too later on.


found this different dremel bit, i think it might be nice to try, to see if i can now route out the abs plastic instead of using the biggest drill bit and hoping it catches the plastic instead.


i'm gonna let the pcbs dry for a few days and set in all nice like. Until then i still have to trace the G15 controller, want pics of all that too? tracing is fun to do.

[Lanx]

here's the assembled stuff on my carpet.
all those wierd little angles are kinda on purpose, to fit with bent/angled board and curved surface.


look like i'll have to unsolded the f1-f12 and others to match, no biggie.

[Lanx]

think i'll remake the spacebar pcb to extended it half an inch outwards both ways, this is just for vanity, it'll cover up a bit of the underside molding. other than that i got the f1-12 keys all repainted, working on the g15 controller now. Came upon a weird issue my hakko soldering iron can't seem to melt the solder if i go
solder->wires->hakko.

i must be doing something wrong, i have the heat from 700-800 sometimes, still no go.

[hoggy]

It might be that the element in the iron is on it's way out, this would cause it's temperature to fluctuate.

[JBert]

Wires need some time to heat up depending on their thickness. I've soldered some 1.5mm wires once, but those take quite some warming up even with a 50W soldering station.

Best is to leave the temperature at its default setting so you don't unnecessarily burn the flux in your solder, just wait a little longer for the wire to heat up before applying solder.

Obviously, this won't work if you are soldering short wires with sensitive components on the other side.

[Lanx]

It might be that the element in the iron is on it's way out, this would cause it's temperature to fluctuate.

i don't think it could be the element, i mean i just bought it like a month ago, new, but it could be the case, i'm no expert, how would i test this?

Wires need some time to heat up depending on their thickness. I've soldered some 1.5mm wires once, but those take quite some warming up even with a 50W soldering station.

Best is to leave the temperature at its default setting so you don't unnecessarily burn the flux in your solder, just wait a little longer for the wire to heat up before applying solder.

Obviously, this won't work if you are soldering short wires with sensitive components on the other side.

i doing thin wires 24 gauge i think, and i can't get them to heat up cut to like 2in length, i'll try again soon, setting up my "work area now"

first pic is the g15 pcb disected, this is what ppl pay 80bucks for (i know special sales blah blah, we'll just say 80), it's incredibly a small pcb. A bit too lengthy for my tastes but i can work with it.


here is the underside of the pcb and why i like logitech keyboards to mod with, pins! (ok this is admittedly my second logitech keyboard i've opened up, but every other keyboard uses those wierd plastic coated things that i can't solder to!)


here we got the whole mess of wires layout, just reference from the first pic and see where all the wires go. The led wires wrap around the entire keyboard btw, so that's how they provide the bright backlight.

[JBert]

i doing thin wires 24 gauge i think, and i can't get them to heat up cut to like 2in length, i'll try again soon, setting up my "work area now"

Those should heat up in no time, even if you have just a 30W soldering iron to work with (check the soldering station, it should be on there).

It also helps to "tin" the wires before soldering them to something else. Put a tiny amount of solder on your solder tip to improves thermal conduction between the wire and the solder tip. Hold it to the wire, then touch the wire with the solder so that it flows in and wets it. Just don't add too much: you'll either have a blob of solder sitting on the end, or the solder might flow into the sheathing and start to melt it, revealing the bare wire.

[Lanx]

that's the issue i'm running into. I had no problems doing all my soldering with a basic radioshack 30w. Then i upgraded to a hakko 536 and it was great for desoldering the cherries but can't do jack for soldering, i'll be plugging in both of these irons to see what's up.

[Lanx]

abs burning in the morning.
there's the easy tenkeyless i kept a lot of the shroud plastic this time around, next pic.


the sideview with the shroud plastic still attached, covers up quite a bit of nasty.


the bottom section attached, yellow circle is the shroud still there. The blue is where i'll fill in the empty space, and i left a lot of abs around so i can hand sand it down. I'll prolly do a flat edge rather than a beveled edge, have sandpaper from 60/100/150 grit.


no different than my v1 really, just wanted to let ppl see the "skeleton" of it all. you see where i have the nail polish circling everything that's gonna be dremel'd out. all that space is reserved for the wires/circuitry/controller (i could put the controller where the wrist rest would be, but i'd be destroying wristrest/keyboard stability which is what i encountered with my v1.


hmmm looks like a smileyface.

[Lanx]

here's my radioshack vs. hakko solder iron... so scary


drilling holes to mount the pcb to abs plastic


here's the screws sticking out topside view
yea don't worry i'll probably trim a few mm off the screws and they're already spraypainted green.


all the screw placements to keep the pcb on lockdown and not wiggle. i wasn't so concerned with the outter edge so i only get it one screw, the main 5x4 cluster definently needed 2 screws.

i'll have to redo the tilde since putting in the screws it's missaligned so i'll have to reepoxy it/sand/paint and drill holes for it.


dremeling out the insides


some more close up

[Lanx]

unrelated but a project i want to do later

think i'll use "claw grip"

[woody]

Where is "DEL" ?

[Lanx]

it's there, scroll back one page and see the 2x3 area.
@edit@
oh i get it, *sigh* late nites.

[Lanx]

basically done with left side modding, i'll have to throw in a quick fit for the f1-f4 and esc (and a fillin key next to f1 prolly blue cherry, idk why.


tired of abs smell, gonna try my hand at soldering now.
couldn't get the damn hakko to work w/ 24 gauge wire idk why, someone smarter than me with soldering plz tell me.
decided to try solding 30gauge to the pins here's a pic for reference
right side are womens hair teezers (i know they are horribly mangled i've used them for picking out the solder that was sucked into the solder sucker and i had to realign the points with a plier, they are strictly my tools no, they don't touch hair lol)
left side is pencil sharped to razer thin.

basically i "wrap" the 30gauge wire around the pin and drop some solder on top of it. It seems to work and the bond is strong.

[Lane Dean]

This is one of the coolest mods I've ever seen (and I've been in the case mod community for 10 years).
So many possibilities...

[Lanx]

41 pins soldered...
the issue isn't the soldering, it's the close vicinity of the pcb and all those electronically stuff and everything is so tiny, each connection is strong though so i'm not worried.


the purpose of soldering wires to the pins is so that i can connect them to this euro style connection thing, and then connect the wires from the keyswitch to there. If anyone has any other suggestions as to how to do this or how to organize the wiring i'm all ears. (soldering to another breadboard? idk how that'd work unless someone could give me a quick link and picture).


this is all so that i could trace the keys from the controller. I was able to trace one membrane successfully, but the other just made me loose my mind (following those thin lines, they slowly begin to merge and you have to start all over again). So i have one computer with the aqua key test, the reason i use a laptop and not my main computer is that i found out is that the media functions will activate no matter what, so it could fast shut down or sleep your computer, can't have that happening on my work/home pc, but on my kitchen laptop it's no problem.
The other netbook just has googledocs running, cuz well it's a netbook and googledocs is the spreadsheet it can handle best, plus it's easier for me to type it out rather than writing it on a piece of paper cuz then i might not be able to read my own handwriting. plus i can always print a lot of copies too.

[nanu]

unrelated but a project i want to do later

Show Image

think i'll use "claw grip"

Nice! I've wanted to do this but instantly gave up by not wanting to do away with the bulky scroll wheel.

[Lanx]

6bucks for a hot glue gun how cool is that? so i'll use this to hot glue the wires down on my pcb board initial layer (i'll show an image about what i mean) then i'll hot glue down the final layer. note i'll only do this for the 2(5x4) clusters meaning all the alpha keys (basically the home section) everything else (caps/shift) will be wired seperately incase i feel like changing the layout again (i haven't finalized it yet, thanks to the main forum and talks about keyboard layout you guys are making me wonder!)


i found this case i think for fishing line, it's good to sorta organize or spool out the wire you'll be soldering soon, showing it in case ppl want organization options. Note it says sample on the front, cuz i tool it from my fiancee who didn't need it anymore who bought it initially to hold make up samples. (don't ask i made a whole organized wall for her that is the envy of any girl that comes in and sees it)


This is always the issue i'm having... TOO MUCH. i keep thinking of too much stuff i can "cram" in or make my final mod... I'm resolved to the fact that I might have to suck it up and make a v3, but i don't think ppl would like that, heck i wouldn't like that either! but i can't help it...
so far 2 things i'm on the fence about.
1. buying a teensy and learning wth a teensy is and learning i'd have to program it to make a numpad for jkl789nm, area.
2. cut up a controller and in place of where the space bar is gonna be i'll have a 4 way switch. Basically i'll mimic a nostromo, the nostromo if you think about it makes full use of your fingers AND your thumbs. Think about it, your thumb is regulated to a spacebar at best. If i slap on 2, 4 way switches on there it could end up being my modifiers, i was thinking about the 4 just be a basic modifier section, consisting of
space
ctrl
shift
alt

i'd love to find a way to "fit it in" somehow, i'll play around with this option too.


notice it's a ps1 controller i'm gonna hack off, yes one of the first controllers, not even a dual shock. (i think a basic nes controller might work better with less plastic idk, i'll experiment, first i gotta find one on ebay gave my nes to my nephews long ago)

[Lanx]

actually a quick browse through the controller section of ebay i notice they sell parts and the analogue stick looks perfect for this (i originally wanted a 4 pad but it seems too impossible to fit in) but the analogue might work better


yes you can thank my bunny 8 years ago for making me wonder why i kept on dying somethings, cuz he was eating my controller wire. And yes i'm a pack rat i kept a broken wire chewed ps2 controller for 8 years... thinking i'll learn to solder some day (which i did!)



the stick is actually 5 switches if most remember, up/down/left/right and press in (just like the scroll wheel that goes up and down and presses in).
gonna desolder this and see where i can fit it!

[Lanx]

time to start wiring up, here's the work station


i'm prepping the underside to tin the pins and basically use it to hold the keys in place.


i can't create nice "volcanos" with the tinning i guess it's cuz the holes i drilled don't have the ring of tin to create volvanos so i'm stuck with blobs.


all wired up, now to figure out how to use a glue gun and if i should bead or make thin lines? advice?


if you look at my spreadsheet and pin layout this is how i believe companies are doing "gaming optimized" nkro, they are basically just giving WASD it's own pins (they'll be some correlating pins like a will be grouped with like p, cuz it's so far away).

[taswyn]

That's a staggering amount of work you've put into that D: It looks amazing

*glances in the direction of her two dead MS 4000s, then down at her G80-8963*

If only I wasn't sure that any attempt I made at something similar wouldn't be doomed to horrible failure >.>; That and it really is pretty daunting D:

You do realize, though, that the ultimate version of this mod would be to order some odd colored LEDs and get some doubleshots that worked for backlighting XD Well, maybe not quite ultimate, since that would need laserz and the ability to fly /nod. But it would be quite neat.

Maybe in v3? =P

Do you think it would be possible to re-use the 4000's keycaps (probably would require cutting up some MX keycaps for the stem attachment and epoxying to 4000 caps)?

[Lanx]

That's a staggering amount of work you've put into that D: It looks amazing

*glances in the direction of her two dead MS 4000s, then down at her G80-8963*

If only I wasn't sure that any attempt I made at something similar wouldn't be doomed to horrible failure >.>; That and it really is pretty daunting D:

You do realize, though, that the ultimate version of this mod would be to order some odd colored LEDs and get some doubleshots that worked for backlighting XD Well, maybe not quite ultimate, since that would need laserz and the ability to fly /nod. But it would be quite neat.

Maybe in v3? =P

Do you think it would be possible to re-use the 4000's keycaps (probably would require cutting up some MX keycaps for the stem attachment and epoxying to 4000 caps)?

on the question of keycaps i've been looking over both the ms4k and g15 keycaps. If i had to repurpose any of them i'd try the g15 since they are for backlight and for illumination but that would take a lot of work and it won't look as nice since the g15 stems are wider than cherries so you'd have to essentially cut off the g15 stems and glue on cherry stems but then you'd have a big glue splotch on your illuminated key so that would defeat the purpose of it looking nice (i can't look at the g15 keys for long, it was a used ebay g15 and the keys are nasty!).

But what would you want to repurpose the ms 4k keycaps for?

i plan on just using the dolche doubleshots, i've made the keys wide enough so that i wouldn't have to cut up any keys (the slant where "a" meets caps and z meets shift for instance, barely anyroom).

[taswyn]

But what would you want to repurpose the ms 4k keycaps for?

Mostly to have the curved keys (especially the space) to fit the casing snug... but of course the upside to using the mx keycaps is you're using doubleshots, so that's sort of a wash.

If i had to repurpose any of them i'd try the g15 since they are for backlight and for illumination but that would take a lot of work and it won't look as nice since the g15 stems are wider than cherries so you'd have to essentially cut off the g15 stems and glue on cherry stems but then you'd have a big glue splotch on your illuminated key so that would defeat the purpose of it looking nice

If I were going to do a backlight mod, I think I would try using keycaps (may as well use switches too) from a tg3. Not all of them would be the right size, but you could at least have the letters and numbers using illuminated keys... really it's not like you need the rest lit up. That is, unless standard white on black keycap doubleshots are translucent enough for backlighting to work with them...

I think I need to get something with doubleshots to play with >.> Now that I've started thinking about this I'm not sure I can unthink it =X

[Lanx]

yea a tg3 backlight keycaps were kinda in my mind, i wouldn't need the switches really, could just put in whatever color leds i liked, but at some point even I have to say... stop! heh. back lighting really is going way out of my scope for the v2, as you said, maybe a v3 (i think i'd kill myself) but for now the g15 lcd is surprisingly blinding.
Repurposing the ms4k keys wouldn't really be useful in this case since i'm not staggering the keys and the ms4k keys are made in a way to "fill in" gaps (such as ghbnty, they are all a little bigger) and i always thought the ms4k space bar was rather nasty feeling, tho the gap in space does irk me, can't do much about it, maybe if these ps2 controller mods pan out, i won't have to.

[Lanx]

get good with the volcanoes now , working on the right side


both sides wired up (just have to connect both sides together, this is layer one, i'll show layer 2 with the plastic in the coming days). and beaded glueing, i guess i'll get better at the glue.

[msiegel]

lanx, you're an inspiration.

those slabs of fiberglass are turning into art

[Lanx]

lanx, you're an inspiration.

those slabs of fiberglass are turning into art

thx kind words,

related note, teensy programming is scrapped for this v2 mod, it was a late edition mod to be put in anyway, and learning how to program
(i was a horrible student at programming anyway)
would have taken too long and i wouldn't get any soldering done
maybe for v3
just like i'll pretty much just rely on g15 for backlighting no other backlights or illuminated keys, again maybe for v3.

[Lanx]

time to do some physical modding. putting in epoxy here and gonna spray it, basically filling in the gaps and trying to make it look nice, note i later sanded it down, somehow finger prints show really well otherwise.


While that's drying/ hardening time to make volcanos!


volcano making got easier, even with no solder rings.


mock up basically left side, and right side 3 column, i had to redo the right side section to fit better, then i'll have to solder it up and wires and all.

question i have for myself is... do i want a ps3 keyboard? look at the joystick! it actually fits moves nicely, i'm on the fence here.

[WhiteRice]

Heck yea. Get some mouse buttons on there are you have your very own lanx/guru hybrid going on.

[taswyn]

Eeee, it's looking so good ^o^

question i have for myself is... do i want a ps3 keyboard? look at the joystick! it actually fits moves nicely, i'm on the fence here.

And that looks neat too, but would it interfere with actually using it as a keyboard, in terms of typing?

[Lanx]

masking out the sides with scotchtape, i don't have painters tape laying around so i hope this works if not, no big deal i guess.


got a template made for the final physical mod (almost) the spacebar, i put a piece of paper to fit and poked lots of holes, came out with this.


putty'in up the space bar pcb and gonna cut it.


basically it cut to fit, just had to dremel a bit on the sides, but not bad.


spacebar pcb sprayed.


forgot to show that i putty'd up the right side and cut the wrist rest to fit too, looks nicer w/o all the glare and no gaping holes!


this is the underside of it all assembled and screwed in, time solder the connecting sections together, this is gonna be an even bigger undertaking than soldering alone since it's gonna be lots of criss cross, this is what i call the second layer, first layer was directly to pcb, now we're solding directly to wire. which is why i also took so much time dremeling out holes and sections so i could see each solder joint while the pcb was attached to the frame.


i bought a psp joystick controller too, it's the really small one, just to see how it'd fit, i don't know i think i'm keeping the right thumb/ space bar. I seem to only use the right thumb anyway for space so i could fully use the right thumb for a joystick switch for up/down/left/right => for modifiers shift/alt/ctrl (and don't know last one maybe space).

[WhiteRice]

Looking good Lanx, keep it up!

[Lanx]

so like i need help, the wires coming out of my g15 are getting unwieldy and i think i need stuff but i have no idea what they're called.
i need this


connected to this


with these wires ends connected to the keyboard wires


to end up with this.


basically i want the wires coming out of the g15 controller to connect to a breadboard, with the header pin things, then i want the keyboard wires connected to the black thing.

definitions please! i don't know electronics.

[msiegel]

Show Image

i know that's perfboard

Show Image

and those look like some kind of right angle headers

Show Image

EDIT: aha, they seem to be female breadboard jumper cables

[Lanx]

thx, now to find a place to buy it all from.

[Lanx]

i can only find the wires on ebay i guess as long as i look for
breadboard/perfboard female jumper with 0.1 spacing i'm good
but the ebay sellers are from china, they take like 10days need to find US source!

[msiegel]

although i don't know if they'll have everything you want, i've had good results ordering from Jameco

[Lanx]

so here's the second layer that i'm talking about basically pass the raw pcb stage, we're doing it through plastic.
I did not anticipate how difficult this would be, even with my planned ahead drilled holes that exposes all the keys. I have to wriggle around every which way and then i smell something weird and i notice i'm melting abs plastic cuz i have my solder iron at an obtuse angle. I'm telling you I'm getting weird smells from the solder then from the accidental abs melting along with the solder burning up old spray paint.
Trying to learn to solder with my left hand while i have a wire in place is also impossible, it's like learning to write with your opposite hand really, oh how i wish i were ambidexterous now.


one it's all soldered on i'll then hot glue all the wires down, notice my horrible attempts at organizing this mess of wires by passing some through a heatshrink wrap.

[Fishraper]

Have you gone to a radioshack? They carry stuff like that.

If you can't find it there, I used to use http://www.digikey.com for school.

[Lanx]

yea the shack ain't got nuttin for me.

[Lanx]

i wanted to do a cost page, for my own records so i'm just going to list stuff.
used ms4k 30$
used cherry 8200 30$
footswitch 6$
used g15 15$
assorted micro switches 5$
breadboard/wires/headers 10$
spray paint 5$
sandpaper 5$ assorted (i had some modeling sandpaper left around somewhere too, this was like 300 grit built into a nail file, kinda nice)
putty 9$
ps2/ps1 controller 5$
psp controller switch 4$

tools used (either puchased exclusively for this mod or had lying around as a cost of what it "takes" for this)
dremel $60 (had it since 99!)
hakko936 $80 (i soldered my v1 with a radio shack iron, there is no way i was going through that again, need a quality iron for so many switches or you'll just wait forever for it to heat up)
glue gun/sticks $10
drill/bits $10/$5
air blower/vaccum (air blower is almost essential to get all the bits out of the way so is vaccum, not gonna list price tho, too basic but airblower was about 40$)
wire stripper/exacto knife (few bucks, if you are going to be "cutting" plastic get a nice blade like exacto or a modeling knife)
safety glasses/surgical mask/work gloves 20$ (protect yourself and your fingers!)

[msiegel]

these guys are having a sale... they may have some parts you need

[Lanx]

thx, i think i might take a trip out to a larger radioshack instead i guess, the one in the mall

i'm having an inkling of where i want the new thumb buttons
here i have the psp joystick, if you notice it is like amazingly small, i might actually put that stick there and idk maybe use the ps2 joystick in the middle. but then i need someway to have like trackpoint logic!


here's the mass of spaghetti wiring, i'm trying to at least organize it by color, red is for columns. so that is done.


here i got the rows 80% done, (i couldn't take soldering anymore) it's in blue, i guess it makes sense, but i'm running out of blue wire! (used it on the nostromo mod, apparently a lot of wiring).

[Lanx]

90% done soldering!, well just the hard cherry keys, i still have to solder a few loner keys (like ctrl/alt/shift) i have to find out where i want space and mod that, i have to figure out what i want the middle strip to be (the 2 keys between G-H) most likely backspace on top and enter on the bottom. Then i have to solder 5 cherry macro keys figure out how i want to do this footswitch, solder on back/foward (which will be macros) then solder on microswitches for all the media keys.
but 90% of the 86keys are ready basically.

Then i'll have to figure out my g15 lcd issue (i really don't want to give up the lcd, it's really cool!)
then once that's finished, hardmount the pcb then connect the lcd "somewhere" find a spot for where i want the foot pedal to connect, and find a space for the usb hub as well.
Then if have time find out where i want to slip in some leds from the g15.

this thing will most likely physically work once i get my breadboard/header/wire order in, i still havent tested out any switches/columns, i'm basically hoping i soldered everything correctly and relying solely on planning.

[Lanx]

testing out the soldering and controller and so far so good (don't have enough 30awg gotta get more later to finish). However one thing i notice, is that i do not need a numpad anymore. To some it may sound weird but once you see it, it's amazing how much better i am with the numrow now that it's not staggered. I always had an issue with neighboring keys on the numrow cuz they were really staggered, however, with a non staggered layout, i get the numrow keys 100% of the time. I mean it's as simple as counting my fingers! (with the exception of both indexes)

[Lanx]

f radioshack, went to 2 one in a big mall and one in a tiny strip mall, both had nothing i could use and didn't even have 30gauge hookup wire either. (they had 24gauge max and it was solid not stranded, i like more bendy wire). Gonna have to ebay 30gauge wire after the holidays.

[taswyn]

If you have any old, broken headsets/speakers, you can unwind the coils in them, the magnet wire for the audio coil may be 30awg, especially in smaller drivers like in headsets. Of course, you have to deal with burning off the enamel at the ends, then, but it's much lighter/more flexible than with a plastic sleeve for insulation.

[J888www]

@ OP

Amazing, truly a keyboardholic.

[Lanx]

came back home/ unpacked/ got tons of mail and stuff!
decided to mount the space bar this way, it's mounted and feels AWESOME, idk maybe i'll start a new trend with this inverted bar but this way the keys don't "cut" into my skin and thumb and just feels more natural.


i got these headers and .1in to finally connect my controller to, guess i'll start after i get a few work projects squared away first, can't be homeless and modding!


my next few projects, i know sounds stupid... altoids? check out the headphone thread and i think i'll do a cmoy to learn more about electronics. Trackball? i think i'll try to mod a modern laser mouse into it, i'll see (so far deathaddler doesn't register well).

[msiegel]

inverted space bar!
great idea, noted for future modding

is that gap between the space bar and the main block *just the right size*, or would it be even better a slightly different size?

[Lanx]

more clarification on how it looks from the right side (note my fingers aren't really in typing position cuz i'm holding the keyboard with my jaw and using my left hand to take a pic, yea i know too lazy to whip out the tripod).

is that gap between the space bar and the main block *just the right size*, or would it be even better a slightly different size?

yea that's all basically the perfect "sized to fit" for my thumb to rest on it.

[msiegel]

excellent! thanx lanx, i'm stealing your idea

[Lanx]

steal away, that's the purpose of these mod logs is to share.

[Lanx]

so i learned breadboards are as strong as... bread. I tried cutting a breadboard to size, who knew that stuff could fly! didn't know i'd be wearing safety glasses for that, think i'll try a dremel in the morning.

barring that i did some keycap playing, the stuff in red i'm keeping, blue and yellow i'm on the fence about, yellow got that missing endcap and gives it a nice edge and easy way to "feel" for the key, the blue is just inverted topmost row.

[symphonic1985]

This spacebar idea is cool. I was playing around with something like this on my Cherry g80. Actually, if you remove the spacebar on these boards there is room to fit in more keys/extend the alt keys towards the middle of the keyboard. The problem I have is then stabilizing the longer keys.

How is it going with the other thumb buttons/stick? This is the part of keyboard modding that I've decided is the most important to me at the moment. With standard keyboards it's already theoretically easy to add thumb buttons where/below where the spacebar is. I'll be putting at least SHIFT, BACKSPACE, CTRL and other extend keys there.

The thing is, once you have buttons on the left thumb, it becomes sensible to put 'E' there, since it is by far the most common letter that you type, second only to the spacebar.  This opens up the possibility for new ergonomic layouts like the Maltron one. Are you going to stick with QWERTY or experiment with something faster?

[Lanx]

i'm still playing around with left hand thumbstick options, i won't settle on anything for a bit i guess (i still have time since i have to wire so many switches). I'm keeping everything standard qwerty for now, i don't like to "re-learn" nuttin, heh.

[Input Nirvana]

Paint it electric purple with orange flames, and a couple lights...what a winner!  lol

Thank you for posting the detail (it's all in the details), there are some really great ideas, work, and results I see there, plus it's inspiring as well. I'm actually kicking around the idea of a thumb-joystick now....

So the doubleshots improve the typing experience?

[Lanx]

So the doubleshots improve the typing experience?

imo not really, inversing the keys work well, i'll always keep that around (my thumb hasn't been sore since i inverted the space bar). Maybe it was the signature plastics doubleshots but those doubleshots feel flimsy and weak compared to the regular cherry keys (pad printed or whatever they are), so they "sound" bad even when not bottoming out.

But this "thumb" issue is holding me up honestly I cannot find the proper thumb switch to provide stability (i've tested the vertical psp thumb switch and it "bends" too much).

I've been thinking about hacking off the thumb switch of my spare nostromo n52 and see how that works out.

[TacticalCoder]

Amazing mod but something boggles me: what is left of the original keyboard after such a mod, besides the wrist rest?  Say, you could have taken a Belkin Ergoboard (also split) and end with basically the same mod no?

It's an honest question: you didn't keep the original keycaps (like the big ALT keys) and it's kinda hard to see what is left of the original board!?

[jumpfroggy]

Amazing mod but something boggles me: what is left of the original keyboard after such a mod, besides the wrist rest?  Say, you could have taken a Belkin Ergoboard (also split) and end with basically the same mod no?

It's an honest question: you didn't keep the original keycaps (like the big ALT keys) and it's kinda hard to see what is left of the original board!?

 
I've been wondering this too.  I have an Ergo 4k (unopened) in my closet waiting for this kind of mod, when I can find some cherry blues cheap.  But I also wonder - after this amount of work, would it be better to just go with a custom-made case?  Machined metal for the base, thick fiberglass layup for the top maybe?  I know that's more work, but it really does appear that there's not much left of the original keyboard.  I'm curious, since I plan on doing this same thing someday.

[redpill]

Well if you wanted to really get nuts you could try to splice cherry keycap stems on the bottom with a big blob of strong epoxy but I don't know how you'd get em to fit on a PCB

[Lanx]

I've been wondering this too.  I have an Ergo 4k (unopened) in my closet waiting for this kind of mod, when I can find some cherry blues cheap.  But I also wonder - after this amount of work, would it be better to just go with a custom-made case?  Machined metal for the base, thick fiberglass layup for the top maybe?  I know that's more work, but it really does appear that there's not much left of the original keyboard.  I'm curious, since I plan on doing this same thing someday.

If you notice the ergo 4k has a 15 degree incline which is why it feels so "natural" meaning that the two "splits" curve toward the center. Look at the ergo 4k at eye level from the wrist wrest to the function keys and you will see that there is a slope in the middle and you can see how difficult it has been trying to preserve that slope, it takes like 5 well placed screws for each half to replicate that curve.

[jumpfroggy]

If you notice the ergo 4k has a 15 degree incline which is why it feels so "natural" meaning that the two "splits" curve toward the center. Look at the ergo 4k at eye level from the wrist wrest to the function keys and you will see that there is a slope in the middle and you can see how difficult it has been trying to preserve that slope, it takes like 5 well placed screws for each half to replicate that curve.

 
Yeah, I know that about the ergo.  I used to have one way back for a few days, and it has the most amazing feel for a standard(ish) layout ergo keyboard.  I've used the old MS "natural" ergo (PS2 version?), but that was just a slightly tilted split board.  The ergo 4k just felt amazing, and I could feel how much easier the layout was on my fingers.  However, the absolutely horrid keys made me return it within just a couple days.  However, after thinking about it for a long while I've bought another ergo 4k as a test bed for a mechanical switch makeover.

I was just curious like the other poster - after conversion, it seems like there's not much left of the ergo.  "He's more machine now than man."  At any rate, I'll probably attempt the same thing as you if I can find a cheap source of cherry blue switches.  Until then, the ergo stays in the closet.

[Lanx]

isn't that why i've seen so many posts for "mechanical ms ergo 4k???" is because the "structure" or the "body" of the ms ergo 4k is why it's so good for ergonomics? I'll list them as to why i believe the msergo4k is so good.

1. split keyboard
2. negative tilt
3. inward slope
4. correctly molded wrist wrest

really all i've done is take out the crappy rubber domes and put in mech keys, and it performs like how one would expect of a ms ergo 4k with cherry browns, like a dream.
i've gone further and made it tenkeyless cuz it does feel better on my shoulders and changed the keycaps around to give it a "concave" kinesis feel.

this is of course the unfinished mod, i just do not have the time to complete it, but i'm currently using my first cherry modded ergo 4k, that is EXTREMELY ugly but performs beyond expectations. (and does not have a matrix layout).

[sordna]

3. inward slope

 
Don't you mean outward slope? The 2 halves of the keyboard are rotated outward.

Anyway, I like the mod! I'm a big fan of the matrix layout, using it for years. All keyboards should come with it!
Have you tried the Maltron / Kinesis style keyboards for comparison?

[Lanx]

that's the slope i'm talking about.

[sordna]

I would call it an outward slope. If you put a tennis ball on the slope, it will roll outward, away from the keyboard. Anyway, let's just call it a slope :-)
So, have you compared your modded keyboard to a Kinesis or Maltron ? Which do you find more comfortable ?

[Lanx]

no i've never used a kinesis, because i was not interested in "changing my habbits" while it'd be interesting for me to try, preserving my muscle memory was more important and less time consuming in my mind (i've used the ergo 4k for 6 years?)

[jumpfroggy]

no i've never used a kinesis, because i was not interested in "changing my habbits" while it'd be interesting for me to try, preserving my muscle memory was more important and less time consuming in my mind (i've used the ergo 4k for 6 years?)

 Same here.  I know deep down that I could probably be more efficient w/ a kinesis.  But I also know that it'd take a long time to get used to (and get back up to speed), and after that I'd only be fastest/comfortable on a kinesis, which would make typing on my laptop even less enjoyable.  I *hate* when keyboards have non-iso layouts, like when the enter key is double sized and the backslash goes to the right of a now-tiny right shift key.  That really messes me up.  So going to a kinesis is not an option for me either.

So I'm stuck in a strange place - I really want an ergo board, and I find the ergo4k more comfortable.  At the same time, I need a dead-standard layout w/o any nonsense (like those stupid "extra large delete key" type mods).  The ergo4k seems to be one of the only ergo boards that maintains a standard layout.  Very strange requirements, I know.

@Lanx - you've used the ergo4k for 6+ years?  How do you like the modded versions?  Which one do you like better? (standard or grid layout)?  Where'd you get all the donor switches?

[sordna]

I *hate* when keyboards have non-iso layouts, like when the enter key is double sized and the backslash goes to the right of a now-tiny right shift key.  That really messes me up.

Hold on. The ISO layouts are the ones with the large enter key and the backlsash to the right of the tiny *left* shift key. I think you ment to say you DO like non-iso (ie ANSI) layouts.

So going to a kinesis is not an option for me either.

I have solved the muscle memory issue accidentally: I learned Dvorak on the Kinesis, but never bothered with it on flat keyboards / laptops. This helps me switch from Dvorak to QWERTY very easily (by switching keyboards) and works the other way around too, when I think QWERTY, I am expecting a standard ANSI layout.
It's hard for me to type Dorak on a standard keyboard, and even harder to type QWERTY on the Kinesis!
So I'm dealing with 2 very distinct, very different layouts, and there is no chance of confusion!

[jumpfroggy]

Hold on. The ISO layouts are the ones with the large enter key and the backlsash to the right of the tiny *left* shift key. I think you ment to say you DO like non-iso (ie ANSI) layouts.

Is that ANSI?  I know euro (aka ISO) boards have the inverted large T-shaped enter.  Are the large J-shaped enter keys also ISO?  Whatever that is...

I have solved the muscle memory issue accidentally: I learned Dvorak on the Kinesis, but never bothered with it on flat keyboards / laptops. This helps me switch from Dvorak to QWERTY very easily (by switching keyboards) and works the other way around too, when I think QWERTY, I am expecting a standard ANSI layout.
It's hard for me to type Dorak on a standard keyboard, and even harder to type QWERTY on the Kinesis!
So I'm dealing with 2 very distinct, very different layouts, and there is no chance of confusion!

Hmm.  Nope.

[Lanx]

@Lanx - you've used the ergo4k for 6+ years?  How do you like the modded versions?  Which one do you like better? (standard or grid layout)?  Where'd you get all the donor switches?

my grid/matrix is still not fully modded, i think if i want to finish it, i'm going to have to scrape a few features (it was very ambitious) but "testing" the grid it sorta just feels the same as standard stagger i guess (of course i really couldn't say for sure)
from using the ergo4k since 05/06? to the modded cherry, the cherries are of course a dream, the regular ergo4k (i have a ergo4k in the closet, which means i have had 3 this year and like 6 total cuz they break so easily with a drop of water) (and since modded 2 of them i gave that one to a friend cuz his "a" "d" was busted) and testing the rubbers dome on that was DISGUSTING, since i go over to the house to "fix" his computer once in a while.
all the donor switches i got from scouring ebay, i forgot which model (it's in the first page) i think cherry 8000 or something but they were basically browns that had a bad circuit board, one was brand new, the other barely seemed used. Condition of the board didn't really matter to me, in fact if a few keys felt more "used" than other keys then i'd just swap them out for newer keys (i.e. function keys or whatever weren't used much), the cherry boards i went for had to be brown and was like 120key model.

*edit*
checked it and it was the cherry g80-8200, a really UGLY keyboard and really badly made in terms of casing, it feels like a childs toy, but i only wanted it for the switches and circuit boards anyway.

[dotancohen]

Show Image

that's the slope i'm talking about.

That's an outward slope for those who go with the flow, and an inward slope for those who go against the flow. To which group would you say a guy who mods his MS Ergo 4000 with Cherry Browns belongs?

[Lanx]

i call it an inward slope, especially since i've opened and modded the inside so much, everything to me is geared towards moving in, with all the parts necessary (it's pretty nicely put together to obtain this inward slope). So from a modder's perspective, it's an inward slope, if by chance you want to drizzle water on it, then yea it goes outward, but that just doesn't make sense.

[JustCallMeCrash]

That's like saying it's an upward or downward slope... either way is correct, depending on your point of view.  I used the MS Natural boards exclusively for at least 15 years... I've been through maybe half a dozen, even got my wife hooked on them.  I'm using standard boards now just because that's what's available with a mech switch.  I would LOVE to try to tackle this mod, but I'm fairly skittish when it comes to cutting PCB... guess I just don't feel very confident in my knowledge re: circuit boards in general.  

All that said, WAY impressed.  You've got some serious chutzpah.  All I've managed to do is swap some springs and dye some keys.  

Also feeling inspired to dig out a busted Natural and try my hand...  I have a G80-8200LPBUS sitting naked in the closet (harvested a couple switches) that I could chop up without remorse.

[Lanx]

the g80-8200 is the same series that i chopped-up for the mod, again if you just want to have a ms ergo4k, no frills, it can easily be done, this took longer than usually cuz of the matrix layout, it really, really took a lot of time, planning and remolding.

you could go for the first mod i did
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:10510
where all it was, really just splitting up the board down the middle (sort to speak) and just fitting it in the molds. this is the current one i use now.

[JustCallMeCrash]

Dammit, Lanx... now you have me wanting to break out the solder-sucker.  I think it would be pretty rad to try to get the keys at the same offsets as the Natural... it would be a lot of work, though.
I'm way too lazy for this crap.  Why won't MS just make us a Cherry board!?  I'm sure we'd be willing to pay for it.

[dotancohen]

Why won't MS just make us a Cherry board!?  I'm sure we'd be willing to pay for it.

Tell them that:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/cc512759
http://connect.microsoft.com/

[Lanx]

Dammit, Lanx... now you have me wanting to break out the solder-sucker.  I think it would be pretty rad to try to get the keys at the same offsets as the Natural... it would be a lot of work, though.
I'm way too lazy for this crap.  Why won't MS just make us a Cherry board!?  I'm sure we'd be willing to pay for it.

well i didn't use a de-solder sucker for the first ugly board i made, as i said i just basically cut out out the board from the 8200 with a dremel and dremel'd out the electrical traces from the board.

tenkeyless makes the board ugly, since there's a big exposed right side, but there's also less switches to solder lol (i did have the keyboard section already prep'd and ready to go until i sort trying out my board without the numpad and just decided to hack it off).

remember it's also not about the dremeling and plastic cutting out and remolding, you also have to find a suitable way to make it work, the current msergo 4k controller has like so varnish on the contacts that i couldn't figure out how to solder or connect wires to so i had to use an old school logitech keyboard i had lying around (the controller board had exposed pins), i'm sure a teensy board would work well as well, lots of GH'rs have used that controller. (i was just repurposing keyboards i had lying around).

[dotancohen]

remember it's also not about the dremeling and plastic cutting out and remolding, you also have to find a suitable way to make it work, the current msergo 4k controller has like so varnish on the contacts that i couldn't figure out how to solder or connect wires to so i had to use an old school logitech keyboard i had lying around (the controller board had exposed pins), i'm sure a teensy board would work well as well, lots of GH'rs have used that controller. (i was just repurposing keyboards i had lying around).

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?21081-How-to-solder-onto-membrane-pads

[Lanx]

getting back to it, gonna do the thumbs now after months of pondering what to do with the spacebar section, it only took having a kinesis for 2 weeks for me to decide that the thumbs are great. Of course kinesis can be improved and with with my special "flip the keycaps around" thing, it feels better, gonna do this


to match my kinesis i currently have


you'll notice that i cut a numpad "zero" in half, i had to use the exacto, cuz as anyone knows, using a dremel would produce too much shredded plastic even with a diamond wheel, i used the signature plastics keycaps cuz well they were really thin lol, the stock cherry keycaps are thick. then i sanded back down the spacebar pcb and spray painted it, waiting for it to dry now.

[Lanx]

the final layout for the spacebar, yea bad phone pic, the woman has the camera for the week, gotta make hold down screws, drill out holes in the frame/plastic a (for wires)
so now i gotta wait on my 30awg wire to come in, nuttin else to do for now. (have no idea what the middle button will do, it's just there)

[JustCallMeCrash]

I am horrifically jealous.  This looks phenomenal.  Can't wait to see it finished and cleaned up.

[JBert]

Is there no switch under the Alt key or did you mount it that low for a purpose?

[Lanx]

low vertical or low as in depth? ctrl/win/alt stagger down i guess i just liked the way it looked and depth, because well the other keys are just raised on that stop that by the time they meet in the middle it's really high.

[dotancohen]

low vertical or low as in depth? ctrl/win/alt stagger down i guess i just liked the way it looked and depth, because well the other keys are just raised on that stop that by the time they meet in the middle it's really high.

 
Low as in distance from the table surface. I had the same question, then I noticed that the Menu key on the other side is symmetrically low as well.

Nice work! It looks like you have a bit less tenting than the original 4000 keyboard. Is that intentional?

[Lanx]

tenting? nothing is really intended i guess, i just did what i did with my v1 mod but only nicer and neater everything else was just to really "fit" cherry keys into the housing of the ergo 4k. is it intentional that the ctrl/win/alt keys are lower/less depth than the spacebar keys? nope that's just how the board worked out basically, i just did what i could to fit and basically mold my way around what i got. i'll take more pics for ppl, but be warned... crappy phone camera

[Lanx]

tenting? and here is what i call depth and the lowest and higest levels



side view with depth



i don't know if i want to fill in the yellow spots with the original ms ergo 4k buttons and make them
1. blank
2. give them function... i.e. from the g15 such as macro bank 1/2/3 and such

fill it in with putty.

the circles in purple have no buttons assigned to them, i just found space to install them but i have no idea what they'll do, if i'll even use them, probably best to just put them as macro 1-6 on the g15 and i can just program them to have functions.

[keyboardlover]

One of the coolest mods I've ever seen on GH. Great work Lanx!

[Lanx]

yea i wanna get this keyboard as complete as i can that really does mean using the g15 tho, i still don't even know where the g15 is gonna go and be displayed... but i just wanna get it over with since i've finally found time, the good thing is with the new thumb mods, it won't be much different than the kinesis i'm currently using, except there's no funky kinesis weird key layout, i'm torn between using this new mod or just sticking with the kinesis, my v1 mod is already shelved, the kinesis layout/matrix keywells proved too great. actually i should use the keycaps from my v1 on my v2, they look rather weird being so mixed.

[Lanx]

got around to organizing the controller connections


now i just need to slip the connection onto the controller instead of using the weird euro style terminators (i lost that pic, dunno why i'm using cell pics) once this is all organized i'll be able to connect the board neatly.

good thing i kept good notes i'm even looking through this thread to find out and remember what the heck the connections were on the g15 heh.

[spzz]

really really really nice mod Lanx, great job

[Lanx]

ugh my wires are getting all messed up,... i think i'm going to resolder and rewire the whole board... that's gonna hurt. and i think i'll be drilling the plastic more so i can "get in" there

[Lanx]

ok back on track... i desoldered everything and redid it all, seems i had to anyway i had 1 miss-read connection and that just screwed up everything, i also then made the plastic holes wider so it was easier for me to solder and i didn't have to become a contoursonist to get to a solder joint, i'm about to make the final connections now to the controller and then we'll see if all the keys work. i figure there's no need for pics really. oh i did hotglue connections on the controller board to make sure those wires stay in place, that's really all the changes so far.

[Lanx]

here are the quick disconnect wire things, i'm a gonna use, someone please reply with the correct term for these lol


mocked up so far


currently i've de-soldered and resoldered the whole board, but it looks the same, pics are kinda old



the white european connecters (that's what radio shack calls em) are just temporary for testing, in the end i'm just gonna solder the final connecting wires to that quick disconnect, but you know, always gonna test to make sure.

[Lanx]

i'm getting scan code errors, sigh fully wired, so i must have a cross connection somewhere, gonna give it a few days (so i can cool my head) and wait a bit.

[simon_C]

some of those are probably from drilling randomly into a circuit boards with traces on it. you probably crossed a few connections using the traces on the board.

[Lanx]

all my circuit board traces are cut/scrapped off, connects are done all through wires. pcb is just there to literally hold the switch in place.

[Lanx]

good lord, now i'm testing each switch individually, i think i like the fabricating portion much more...

[JustCallMeCrash]

good lord, now i'm testing each switch individually, i think i like the fabricating portion much more...

The devil is in the details.

[Lanx]

g15 controller is getting all wonky on me... i think i might have to replace it, oh this isn't... optimal.

[JustCallMeCrash]

How is this going?

[purple_haze]

dude if this works..that would be straight BA.. I suck at soldering, but if yours works. I might try something like that.

[kaen]

This is absolutely fascinating. I look forward to seeing the end result.

[Eggit]

I registered here just to say that you are truly amazing. You are building my dream keyboard, keep up the good work.

[Lanx]

long story short, my g15 matrix blew, so to finish it off i just put in an extra model m controller and redid the matrix' again, sadly i won't have time to finish the "asthetics" but it works w/o the g15 part. I've gotten really used to just a regular kinesis tho, so this v2 mod is also stowed away with my v1 mod as a backup keyboard, it's a shame tho, i really miss the the slope/incline/slant and better wrist rest of the v2 mod vs the kinesis, maybe once i get over my kinesis keywell fascination i'll revisit the v2 mod.

[JustCallMeCrash]

A travesty, truly.

[Lanx]

the word i was looking for was kinesis keywell bias.

[FinancialWar]

amazing, just amazing.

[Pyrolistical]

Looks like my dream keyboard, except messier =P

[Henry Allen Venture]

Jesus, this is amazing. Good luck with getting it finished off.
I hope the end result is worth it for you.

[Lanx]

^-----i'm guessing "it" is threadcrapping since that's all "it" does. ("it's" on ignore btw so i don't see "it's" posts, some1 could prove me wrong)

[purple_haze]

that looks crazy man.  Mad props, i loved my microsoft ergo 4k until i bought das keyboard.

[yasuo]

any updates

[Lanx]

oh this keyboard has long since been retired. i'm actually about to move it from the serialite container since i'm about to move soon (along with the other disassembled kinesis') It's fully functional and everything, actually the wrist wrest and "angle" is better on it than my current daily driver, a minorly modified kinesis.

[dotancohen]

Retired? You've already done most of the hard work!

Send it to me, I'll finish it. Seriously. After that you can have it back or I can enjoy it.

[dotancohen]

I'm looking back through the thread now. At least I know what to do with that middle button: it can be a middle-click for the integrated touchpad. I integrated a touchpad from these guys into my MS 4000 (now my daily driver again), but it has no middle-click. As a Linux user, middle-click is extremely. The mechanical 4000 with a touchpad would be sweet.

[Lanx]

oh it's finished, imo it looks better than my daily driver (kinesis) i just find the kinesis a "tad" bit more comfortable. oh you mean that ms4000 middle scroll that i found so useless? yea it actually took ALOT of time just figuring out how to mount it, if you read through it, you can actually fit 2 cherry buttons very comfortably.

[dotancohen]

I will have to try a Kinesis, then! If the 4000 is finished, how about some pron^h photos? Congratulations!

I wasn't referring to the 4000's middile-scroll, which I wish that I could get working in Linux. I am referring to an actual trackpad, that I have mounted below the spacebar (where the lamps are on a stock 4000). You might want to add one, it is great for the times when you need to move the pointing device just a little. For real pointing, though, I prefer a vertical mouse.