Need a keyboard for work.

[N8N]

@ False_Dmitry_II - I got it all back together but my phone's camera can't seem to take a pic that really shows the condition of the keys.  They are somewhat shiny and worn, but it's not bad, and pretty even, and not even really noticeable from most angles.  What I notice most, now that it's back together, is the wear on the clear keycaps - some of those were obviously used more than others and so some of them feel like new while some feel distinctly smoother.  I didn't notice this until I had everything reassembled, so it's kind of odd as I just snapped them on in random locations since they're all interchangeable save for the long "enter" key.

@theferenc - once I got it all back together I hooked it up to my laptop and tried swiping a few cards that I had in my pocket with an OpenOffice Writer window open - I don't think it's working correctly because it seems to output a slightly different string each time.  Maybe if I get bored I'll install Cherry Tools on my Windows partition and play with it, but really, this was supposed to be just an exercise in trying out the Cherry clear switches and I'm pronouncing it a resounding success.  I like this board so much that I went ahead and cleaned it up anyway even though I'm still waiting for one more board before declaring a winner in the "which switch do I like best" contest.

I did try the AEK2 and it's nice, but I like the lower tactile bump of the Cherry switches, and it feels a little smoother too although that might be just differences in the wear of the two boards, neither is new...  Also this appears to have the same grey spacebar switch as the Compaq keyboard with browns, and it is a much better match to the clears, although I still wish that it had a slightly lighter feel.  I think that a clear in the Compaq for the spacebar would be a huge improvement now that I've tried them.

[N8N]

yes, I thought about that - if the keys from the Compaq will work, I could swap in the uncapped Ins/Home/PgUp/Del/End/PgDn keys.  Haven't been motivated to drive/ride over to the office and retrieve it though... I'm actually dechowifying the AEK2 right now since I'm in the groove  (don't be offended - it's waaaaay cleaner than the Cherry was that I was complaining about!)

[theferenc]

Hey, I told you it was dirty, and I hadn't had a chance to clean it yet. But that did let you get a better deal on it. I'm not offended at all. If anything, I felt bad sending it that way, but I really need to clean out my apartment.

The Compaq keys should work, yes. I'm pretty sure they are the same profile, and they will definitely fit on the keyboard.

[N8N]

your "dirty" is apparently way cleaner than some people's ideas of "ready to send" - AT101 just showed up and it's not much better than the Cherry was, and the keys are worn to heck to boot.  But again, you get what you pay for...

I suppose it's a Bad Idea just to throw the whole thing in the dishwasher upside down like you'd do with a rubber dome board?

[theferenc]

Do NOT do that! So, the way I would do it is take a jeweler's screw driver, and leverage it up under the keys onto the switch housing, then lift slightly on the handle. The keys will pop right off.

ALPS keyboards are kinda frustrating to clean, because no matter where, there are electronics sticking up in the way, and you don't want to get water down into the switches. The way I've cleaned that particular board in the past (as well as other ALPS boards) is to use rubbing alcohol and cotton swabs, after hitting it with the soft brush attachment on the vacuum to pull up the loose crap. Just use the swabs to clean up the stuck on dirt. I know it's a pain, but it really is the best way I've found to clean it up without damaging it.

To clean the key caps, I use denture tabs. Just pull the keys, toss them in hot water with a few tabs. If you want to clean the switches, you can toss the internals into the same bath, or use a different bowl. It's kind of a lot of small parts though, but it's a fun exercise, I think. That one didn't feel like it had dirty switches, in that most of them still felt smooth. I think the rubber dampers help keep the internals clean, for whatever reason. Or at least push the dirt out of the way of travel.

Oh, and just so you know. The F row of keys has the switches mounted 90 degrees relative to the main block. The stem is vertical on that row, while it is horizontal everywhere else. So come in from the side on that row, from the top or bottom on the rest of the keys.

Good luck!

Edit: Oh, and don't pull straight up on the keys with a key puller. For whatever reason, ALPS keys are most strongly attached against that particular move. You will almost definitely break a few key stems that way, and then you will have to replace the sliders on the switches, as well as the keys. I definitely have sliders, and I may have keys kicking around somewhere as well, in case that does happen to you. I should have tossed a few in the box, now that I think about it.

[False_Dmitry_II]

For me, the clears board I got had the card swipers work fine. Though one seemed to output all of the stuff on the card, the other seemed to only output the card's number. Must be able to store what it should output on the keyboard as well.

I do keys in the dishwasher too, no residue like denture tabs. Other than that I now use a magic eraser. Much faster than using rubbing alcohol.

That rotated switches thing only applies to the AEKII. Dell's are all the same orientation.

[theferenc]

Oh, you're right, of course. I misread his post, thought he was talking about the AEKII.

Also, I've never noticed a residue from denture tabs. I thoroughly rinse them afterwards, as the instructions on the box say to, which removes all the residual cleaner from them. Do you rinse them, and still get that residue?

My dishwasher gets too hot for me to feel comfortable putting my keys in it, especially when combined with the harsh chemicals that are in dishwasher detergent. Then again, my hot water is 66C according to my potentiometer, and the dishwasher heats it further, based on time rather than temperature (I tested this by exhausting my hot water tank and then running the dishwasher -- heating time was the same).

A magic eraser is a micro abrasion pad. Perfectly fine to use, but it can leave marks, and bits of itself, behind on the keyboard tray. As long as you're aware of that and careful though, it's no big deal. I still prefer the alcohol, personally. But to each their own.

[N8N]

just so you guys don't think that I'm destroying anything, I have run RD boards through the dishwasher before, but for the current round of cleaning I am only running the *cases* through, not the actual boards with the mechanical switches

I have to run to the store this AM to pick up groceries so I may try the denture cleaner thing.  I did the keys for the Cherry in a container with hot water and dish detergent, it got "most" of the mung off but isn't sparkling.  But since the plans for this board are to be a switch tester/possible office beater I'm not about to pull it apart again - it's just going to get dirty again anyway and if I put any more effort into it then I'll actually care what happens to it.

I need to find a monitor (long story) so that I can hook up my desktop and do a CAD template for the Cherry keycaps like I was talking about...  Font looks fairly close to Helvetica, is that what it is?

[False_Dmitry_II]

I have never bothered with denture stuff. Seemed like (especially having been told that) far too many steps. When all I have to do is unceremoniously dump the keys into the holder stick it in and wait for them to dry after.

The first couple of times I used rubbing alcohol on entire boards, but it was alot slower and took a bunch more stuff and effort than using the magic eraser.

[theferenc]

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't want to clean the keys by hand. I just toss them in a bowl, fill it with hot water, throw in a few tabs from the denture cleaner, and walk away for a few hours. Come back, dump out the water, and run cold water into the bowl for about 5 minutes at high pressure, to flush everything out. Then it's just waiting for them to dry.

So about the same amount of effort, it just takes longer. I'm also more comfortable with it, personally.

[hoggy]

N8N,  you could reduce the noise the Model M makes with dental floss.  You need the stuff for people with large gaps in their teeth or dentures.  
Pop off a key, and insert the thick end into the spring. Cut it off flush with the top of the spring. The more floss, the quieter it will be.  Pop the cap back on.  Just repeat it about a hundred times.  It won't make it cherry brown quiet, but it will make a difference.

Another trick would be to buy noisier keyboards as replacements for work.  Kensington (& belkin) make some outrageously loud rubber dome boards that can be heard clearly from 20 feet away. As soon as a few people in the office have those, you won't be the only bad guy.

[N8N]

Hah.  Well, the noise is not really an integral part of what makes me like the Model M, it's the tactility.  So I think that I'm going to use the board w/ the clears for a while and see how I like that; if anything the travel is less so I might actually find myself typing faster.

Now if anyone claims that the noise that I make while typing on a board with clears bothers them, they might find an old Cherry POS keyboard inserted in a very uncomfortable place...

[theferenc]

I've done the floss mod on an M, and it doesn't really damage the tactility, it just deadens the sound. I wasn't a huge fan of the new sound, personally, so I removed the floss, but it did work amazingly well.

[greyhounds]

I was on the same search, and though not concluded (I still have to try blacks and clears), I must say I'm somewhat pleased with the NMB RT-6856TW RD boards. The basic specs are:

Keyswitch Travel: 0.140±0.020 inch (3.56± 0.5 mm)
Travel to Make: 0.090±0.020 inch (2.29± 0.5 mm)
Operating Force: Momentary Action - 2.0 oz. nominal (55 grams)
Feel: Tactile.
Life: Meets or exceeds 20 million cycles.


My measurements - distance from top of travel to important reference points:
   0.050" (1.3 mm) to tactile bump, 55g
   0.098" (2.5 mm) to activate, 40g
   0.130" (3.3 mm) to bottom pad, 50g
   0.145" (3.7 mm) to end of travel, ~100g

Hard to believe, but it's a RD board that makes before it bottoms out, with a soft landing due to the RD design. It a damn nice RD, although the keys are a bit wobbly (but not as bad a ALPS). The wobble gives them a little clack sound when you release them, but not too loud. I use one at work and it's quieter then the Das brown, Razer BWU blue, or IBM-M.

The left shift key measured 55g as well, even when hit off center. Way better than the 65g I was getting with the Das or the 80g I was getting with the Razer BWU.

The space bar is stiffer due to an extra spring under it, which I believe you can remove. It does have the typical NMB nasty sharp edge to the space bar though.

Overall I can type faster on this than anything else I own, with very little bottoming and then very lightly and cushioned due to the dome.

You can get a NIB one right now here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NMB-Cyrix-OEM-PS2-Keyboard-/220701468954?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3362d5291a

Just something else to consider, although not mechanical.

[theferenc]

NMB makes good keyboards. They also make (well, made) the space invader switch, if I remember correctly. greyhounds, you may want to see if you can get your hands on a Fujitsu Peerless. You can sometimes find them for a few bucks on ebay. Clicky rubber dome. Odd feeling, but surprisingly nice.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Yes. While space invaders and cherry blues are quite close in terms of feel, I think I actually prefer space invaders.

I'd like to try their RD boards, but I'm not going to spend an AEKII's worth of money on one. If it was $15 total I'd take it.

But the quiettouch dell that he got is also supposed to be good. I don't know how those two RD boards are in relation to each other.

[N8N]

I used the Dell QT for maybe 5 minutes and decided that it was inferior to everything else on my desk.  (I just posted it for sale in fact.  I finished cleaning up all the boards I need to get rid of about an hour ago.)  My main complaint is not the feel however - it actually feels quite good.  The problem is that it still makes right at the bottom of the key travel and for someone used to a Model M that's a deal killer.  If the NMB will make before bottoming out, and feels like a Dell QK, it might actually be something that I'd like.

I haven't tried any linear boards, nor have I tried a Topre switch board (nor am I likely to, for the price at which they're selling - not unless a local store starts carrying them or someone I know buys one and lets me try it, neither of which seem likely) but I think I've given myself a good sampling of the "tactile" boards that are available, and I'm pretty much sold on clears.  In fact I might actually enjoy typing at work more now!  (OK, let's not go crazy here.)

I'm pretty sure that the final resolution for me is that I'm going to keep the Cherry POS board to use as my work keyboard, and I like it so much that I might just buy myself another one for home use - I'll have to switch off between that and my Model M to decide which one that I really like better; and the clears are definitely more cohabitant friendly.

[peapody]

I am in the same boat looking for a keyboard that I can use for work..now resorting to just bringing in my HHKB daily to use for fun while I take care of emails.

[greyhounds]

N8N, it strikes me that you may still have a mech keyboard yet to try (as do I).

If I've followed the thread all the way I don't think you've tried the NMB Hi-Tek "Space Invaders" switch yet, correct? I'd love to hear your impression on it if you have since you seem to tried everything else.