HHKB Pro 2 or Novatouch TKL?

[chryos1029]

Finally decided to venture into the TOPRE world...
But what confuses me is that is the silenced novatouch tkl good as the HHKB pro 2?
Because the cost of a silenced novatouch tkl + dye sub pbt keycaps is already higher than a stock HHKB Pro 2 with dye sub pbt keycaps(not including the abs spacebar)....
Anyone can give an opinion? 

[xtrafrood]

Novatouch case made of metal?

Novatouch has the cherry mx stems (not all artisan caps will fit)

HHKB has a great reputation.

Do you need a dedicated nav cluster?

[bocahgundul]

HHKB.

[Polymer]

Finally decided to venture into the TOPRE world...
But what confuses me is that is the silenced novatouch tkl good as the HHKB pro 2?
Because the cost of a silenced novatouch tkl + dye sub pbt keycaps is already higher than a stock HHKB Pro 2 with dye sub pbt keycaps(not including the abs spacebar)....
Anyone can give an opinion? 

Better is all relative..

Is MX Keycap compatibility important to you?  If so..Novatouch..

Do you want a 60% layout and have enough patience to learn the HHKB layout?  If so, HHKB...

If you don't already have a significant investment in keycaps, I don't know if I'd purposely go to Novatouch....

[FLFisherman]

HHKB.

The seal knows best.

I've tried both the Novatouch and HHKB and found myself liking the HHKB more. The layout didn't bother me (strange, since I said I'd never want to go smaller than a TKL) and the feels were much better.

[bocahgundul]

HHKB.

The seal knows best.

I've tried both the Novatouch and HHKB and found myself liking the HHKB more. The layout didn't bother me (strange, since I said I'd never want to go smaller than a TKL) and the feels were much better.

Yes even tho u said that I'm a seal but still I agree with this guysss I even said to myself too that I'm not goin any smaller than tkl

[ajx]

Stock HHKB is better than stock NT
Silenced NT is better than stock HHKB
Silenced NT feels better than silenced HHKB
HHKB layout/keyboard ergonomic/shape is better than NT
NT has more keys (clusters, f-keys...) while HHKB misses a lack of them
I have both, i prefer HHKB overall because i like 60% more than TKL, the HHKB layout looks also better to me but silenced NT is great keyboard aswell (in my opinion as i stated above, NT feels more firmly, sturdier in your hands)
Hard choice imo, both are very good (if it has been silenced)

[nubbinator]

The Novatouch just feels cheap to me.  When I tried it, it was loud and rattled.  The HHKB, especially the Type-S, is brat far the superior board.

[mobbo]

I can't believe I'm going to make this comment. Just feels like the biggest meme ever now, but:


HHKB

[FLFisherman]

I can't believe I'm going to make this comment. Just feels like the biggest meme ever now, but:


HHKB

You're just trying to fit in!

[nocturalowl]

HHKB is better choice imo. I already own both and silent mod both boards. HHKB feel way better maybe because it was case mounted.

[ajx]

Loving HHKB doesnt mean to trash other keyboards
NT is great aswell but you have to silent it and get better keycaps

[quasistellar]

Stock HHKB is better than stock NT
Silenced NT is better than stock HHKB
Silenced NT feels better than silenced HHKB
HHKB layout/keyboard ergonomic/shape is better than NT
NT has more keys (clusters, f-keys...) while HHKB misses a lack of them
I have both, i prefer HHKB overall because i like 60% more than TKL, the HHKB layout looks also better to me but silenced NT is great keyboard aswell (in my opinion as i stated above, NT feels more firmly, sturdier in your hands)
Hard choice imo, both are very good (if it has been silenced)

Seems like a good summary.  My silenced Novatouch feels and sounds oooooh so nice, but it's not for everyone.

[quasistellar]

I think Coolermaster should do a silenced Novatouch.  All complaints about the board center around the noise, which is completely addressed with silencing and a dab of grease on the stabilizers.  The feel is just fine.

That said, if you don't mind the 60% layout, the HHKB is the better keyboard out of the box, I have no doubt.  The whole point of the Novatouch is modding, though.

[Baddy126]

Stock HHKB is better than stock NT
Silenced NT is better than stock HHKB
Silenced NT feels better than silenced HHKB
HHKB layout/keyboard ergonomic/shape is better than NT
NT has more keys (clusters, f-keys...) while HHKB misses a lack of them
I have both, i prefer HHKB overall because i like 60% more than TKL, the HHKB layout looks also better to me but silenced NT is great keyboard aswell (in my opinion as i stated above, NT feels more firmly, sturdier in your hands)
Hard choice imo, both are very good (if it has been silenced)

May I ask how you silenced your novatouch? (dental bands, hyperspheres or landing pads?)

[ajx]

Landing pads for both (HHKB and NT)

https://vid.me/Q630

Short vid of typing

[demik]

Novatouch isn't topre. It's a bull**** impostor that you can put crap mx on.

HHKB.

[Kompanion]

HHKB hands down. I have a silenced novatouch and the only reason I keep it around still is to show off keysets. I usually use my realforce, but same concept with the hhkb.

[Air tree]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

[aaron6301]

I don't have experience with the Nova but I have recently acquired a HKKB Pro 2. While I may be echo'ing what's already been brought up, the layout is definitely something to consider. Seeing as this is my first full day typing on this board, I'm already starting to get quite used to it. Granted, I can touch type, I do find myself over reaching for Backspace... Perhaps that's an indicator that I need to work on my typing skills a bit more to mitigate the typos  )

[xtrafrood]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

[Kompanion]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

[bocahgundul]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

No topre with topre cherry with cherry stuff

[FLFisherman]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

I don't think the sliders will affect the feeling too much. The stems are almost identical.

[Kompanion]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

No topre with topre cherry with cherry stuff

how does a seal even type?

[FLFisherman]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

No topre with topre cherry with cherry stuff

how does a seal even type?

You know seals. It's probably on a membrane keyboard.

[demik]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

No topre with topre cherry with cherry stuff

how does a seal even type?

text to speech has gotten incredibly good.

there's no way those flaps are getting a keyboard wet.

[bocahgundul]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

No topre with topre cherry with cherry stuff

how does a seal even type?

text to speech has gotten incredibly good.

there's no way those flaps are getting a keyboard wet.

demilky pls i have a hands too

[demik]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

No topre with topre cherry with cherry stuff

how does a seal even type?

text to speech has gotten incredibly good.

there's no way those flaps are getting a keyboard wet.

demilky pls i have a hands too

no u dont you silly seal

[bocahgundul]

If you want cherry mx keysets on a HHKB,  just get some sliders off of CTRL ALT soon.

But when?! The only consistent option is to buy a novatouch since the topre clone keyboards with cherry mx sliders are so difficult to track down 

Side question, does anyone think it's worth it just to go ahead and scavenge my novatouch for the sliders to put on a realforce? I'm concerned that it will effect the feel and don't know if it's really worth it yet.

No topre with topre cherry with cherry stuff

how does a seal even type?

text to speech has gotten incredibly good.

there's no way those flaps are getting a keyboard wet.

demilky pls i have a hands too

no u dont you silly seal

Show Image

Dis is me hands demilk

[demik]

put on a shirt u crazy seal! this is a family website!!

[bocahgundul]

But I though u like me nikkid bb

On topic : HHKB.

[rowdy]

HHKB.

The seal knows best.

I've tried both the Novatouch and HHKB and found myself liking the HHKB more. The layout didn't bother me (strange, since I said I'd never want to go smaller than a TKL) and the feels were much better.

Yes even tho u said that I'm a seal but still I agree with this guysss I even said to myself too that I'm not goin any smaller than tkl

So it has your seal of approval?

[bocahgundul]

HHKB.

The seal knows best.

I've tried both the Novatouch and HHKB and found myself liking the HHKB more. The layout didn't bother me (strange, since I said I'd never want to go smaller than a TKL) and the feels were much better.

Yes even tho u said that I'm a seal but still I agree with this guysss I even said to myself too that I'm not goin any smaller than tkl

So it has your seal of approval?

yes off course

hhkb get my seal of approval

[iLLucionist]

HHKB.

The seal knows best.

I've tried both the Novatouch and HHKB and found myself liking the HHKB more. The layout didn't bother me (strange, since I said I'd never want to go smaller than a TKL) and the feels were much better.

Yes even tho u said that I'm a seal but still I agree with this guysss I even said to myself too that I'm not goin any smaller than tkl

So it has your seal of approval?

yes off course

hhkb get my seal of approval

I sea what you did there..

[venyv]

I have both I use the HHKB at work and the Nova at home and I like both. They definitely have a different feel, the HHKB is more tactical feed back and spunky and the Nova touch is softer and smoother. It would be hard for me to choose between the two after having them both. If you feel like customizing the keycaps get the Novatouch if you like the smaller form factor get the HHKB. I do love the HHKB with Hasu controller.

[xtrafrood]

I have both I use the HHKB at work and the Nova at home and I like both. They definitely have a different feel, the HHKB is more tactical feed back and spunky and the Nova touch is softer and smoother. It would be hard for me to choose between the two after having them both. If you feel like customizing the keycaps get the Novatouch if you like the smaller form factor get the HHKB. I do love the HHKB with Hasu controller.

I'm curious. Which feature makes your HHKB spunky? I think I would prefer a spunky HHKB over a less than spunky variety.

[childofthehorn]

Leopold FC660C?

I am typing on a friends now and it actually motivated me to get a PLUM84 now that they are back under $100 if you buy using the app.

These really do feel nice once you get used to them and the steel plate in the novatouch and FC660C really does make your keytouches feel more solid though the HHKB has no flex or anything at all, its just that i feel like I can feel stuff through the board as I type with other fingers.

Honestly, never thought I would like a Topre as I like Alps best and Gat blues second.

The HHKB has the benefit of being able to get a programmable controller allowing it to be fully customizable. which is nicer for sure. The lack of programmable options on Topre kinda sucks.

[demik]

Leopold FC660C?

I am typing on a friends now and it actually motivated me to get a PLUM84 now that they are back under $100 if you buy using the app.

These really do feel nice once you get used to them and the steel plate in the novatouch and FC660C really does make your keytouches feel more solid though the HHKB has no flex or anything at all, its just that i feel like I can feel stuff through the board as I type with other fingers.

Honestly, never thought I would like a Topre as I like Alps best and Gat blues second.

The HHKB has the benefit of being able to get a programmable controller allowing it to be fully customizable. which is nicer for sure. The lack of programmable options on Topre kinda sucks.

No

[Kompanion]

Leopold FC660C?

I am typing on a friends now and it actually motivated me to get a PLUM84 now that they are back under $100 if you buy using the app.

These really do feel nice once you get used to them and the steel plate in the novatouch and FC660C really does make your keytouches feel more solid though the HHKB has no flex or anything at all, its just that i feel like I can feel stuff through the board as I type with other fingers.

Honestly, never thought I would like a Topre as I like Alps best and Gat blues second.

The HHKB has the benefit of being able to get a programmable controller allowing it to be fully customizable. which is nicer for sure. The lack of programmable options on Topre kinda sucks.

No

demik's opinions, best opinions. So insightful..

/s

[demik]

Leopold FC660C?

I am typing on a friends now and it actually motivated me to get a PLUM84 now that they are back under $100 if you buy using the app.

These really do feel nice once you get used to them and the steel plate in the novatouch and FC660C really does make your keytouches feel more solid though the HHKB has no flex or anything at all, its just that i feel like I can feel stuff through the board as I type with other fingers.

Honestly, never thought I would like a Topre as I like Alps best and Gat blues second.

The HHKB has the benefit of being able to get a programmable controller allowing it to be fully customizable. which is nicer for sure. The lack of programmable options on Topre kinda sucks.

No

demik's opinions, best opinions. So insightful..

/s

my opinions are gold!

GOLD JERRY! GOLD!

[tokidokijake]

HHKB. **** is god tier

[ntelope]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

[bocahgundul]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

1 thing that I've to say to you :

HHKB.

[ntelope]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

1 thing that I've to say to you :

HHKB.

Is this decision purely based on feels?

[bocahgundul]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

1 thing that I've to say to you :

HHKB.

Is this decision purely based on feels?

feels, layout, feels again

cause HHKB is the only toppre that is good

[demik]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

we dont speak of the f660c(rap)

[bocahgundul]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

we dont speak of the f660c(rap)

listen to this man

[ntelope]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

we dont speak of the f660c(rap)

listen to this man

I mean it would be nice if you would criticize the f660c with actual criticism.
But then again it all depends on personal preference

[xtrafrood]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

we dont speak of the f660c(rap)

listen to this man

I mean it would be nice if you would criticize the f660c with actual criticism.
But then again it all depends on personal preference

Don't take it personally. They say that about anything with a winkey 

[ntelope]

I know this is off-topic, but how does the f660c compare to the other two?

we dont speak of the f660c(rap)

listen to this man

I mean it would be nice if you would criticize the f660c with actual criticism.
But then again it all depends on personal preference

Don't take it personally. They say that about anything with a winkey 

I see It does look like it would be hard to get used to the hhkb latout though

[Polymer]

I see It does look like it would be hard to get used to the hhkb latout though

For some it does..for others not so much.

I think the arrow cluster is the main complaint...When I first used a HHKB I loved the layout but I hated switching back and forth to a more normal layout, mainly with the backspace key..it was such a pain I almost gave up...Eventually I got used to switching..I really do wish other keyboards had the built in ability to use the \ key as backspace..but it is what it is...

[callmejag]

I'm with pretty much everyone else in this thread. The HHKB is a better overall keyboard out of the box (even modded I think it's superior). If you're after a TKL Topre board, invest in a Realforce - it's the better board hands down in my opinion.

The layout of the HHKB didn't take much time at all for me to get used to. It was natural after a couple of days - even the arrow cluster (which will seem odd at first).

[childofthehorn]

OOOOOOORRRRRRRR

Just get the TMK controller and set it to something that you feel a bit more comfortable with.

[ntelope]

OOOOOOORRRRRRRR

Just get the TMK controller and set it to something that you feel a bit more comfortable with.

XD best solution

[sacramentoplaya]

Finally decided to venture into the TOPRE world...
But what confuses me is that is the silenced novatouch tkl good as the HHKB pro 2?
Because the cost of a silenced novatouch tkl + dye sub pbt keycaps is already higher than a stock HHKB Pro 2 with dye sub pbt keycaps(not including the abs spacebar)....
Anyone can give an opinion? 

I'm one of the world's fastest and use an HHKB2.  Never used Cherry or any other Topre.  Never wanted to.  Go HHKB2.

[xtrafrood]

Finally decided to venture into the TOPRE world...
But what confuses me is that is the silenced novatouch tkl good as the HHKB pro 2?
Because the cost of a silenced novatouch tkl + dye sub pbt keycaps is already higher than a stock HHKB Pro 2 with dye sub pbt keycaps(not including the abs spacebar)....
Anyone can give an opinion? 

I'm one of the world's fastest and use an HHKB2.  Never used Cherry or any other Topre.  Never wanted to.  Go HHKB2.

You can't say you're that fast without posting a video. C'mon now  )

[sacramentoplaya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQj3kRVHVLE
I'm a noob to these forums.  Created an account to show off my custom HHKB2 key-cap setup after being inspired by some of the jaw-dropping setups on here.  Still waiting for the last keys to come in the mail.  The vid is by no means all I'm capable of, just an easy sample at one short minute.  It's so freaking cool to connect with other nerds -- I mean "geeks" on here .

[xtrafrood]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQj3kRVHVLE
I'm a noob to these forums.  Created an account to show off my custom HHKB2 key-cap setup after being inspired by some of the jaw-dropping setups on here.  Still waiting for the last keys to come in the mail.  The vid is by no means all I'm capable of, just an easy sample at one short minute.  It's so freaking cool to connect with other nerds -- I mean "geeks" on here .

Thank you 

[ntelope]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQj3kRVHVLE
I'm a noob to these forums.  Created an account to show off my custom HHKB2 key-cap setup after being inspired by some of the jaw-dropping setups on here.  Still waiting for the last keys to come in the mail.  The vid is by no means all I'm capable of, just an easy sample at one short minute.  It's so freaking cool to connect with other nerds -- I mean "geeks" on here .

dude how do you type that fast without any typos???

[sacramentoplaya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQj3kRVHVLE
I'm a noob to these forums.  Created an account to show off my custom HHKB2 key-cap setup after being inspired by some of the jaw-dropping setups on here.  Still waiting for the last keys to come in the mail.  The vid is by no means all I'm capable of, just an easy sample at one short minute.  It's so freaking cool to connect with other nerds -- I mean "geeks" on here .

dude how do you type that fast without any typos???

L33t h4x. Lol, nah. Years of practice and good reading and spelling skills matter a lot. I can't swear by this, but a high-protein diet might help with quicker thinking, too.

To not hijack the thread, OP, the HHKB2 has the CTRL key in a great place, the polymer is strong enough to last a year of heavy typing so far with no wear, and the small size makes it really easy to type with it on your lap, something I highly recommend for speed typing.  It's not a good board for robust gaming or programming, though.

[iLLucionist]

the polymer is strong enough to last a year of heavy typing so far with no wear

Wait.. are you saying that the HHKB would only last one year?

It's not a good board for robust gaming or programming, though.

Why not?

[FLFisherman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQj3kRVHVLE
I'm a noob to these forums.  Created an account to show off my custom HHKB2 key-cap setup after being inspired by some of the jaw-dropping setups on here.  Still waiting for the last keys to come in the mail.  The vid is by no means all I'm capable of, just an easy sample at one short minute.  It's so freaking cool to connect with other nerds -- I mean "geeks" on here .

dude how do you type that fast without any typos???

L33t h4x. Lol, nah. Years of practice and good reading and spelling skills matter a lot. I can't swear by this, but a high-protein diet might help with quicker thinking, too.

To not hijack the thread, OP, the HHKB2 has the CTRL key in a great place, the polymer is strong enough to last a year of heavy typing so far with no wear, and the small size makes it really easy to type with it on your lap, something I highly recommend for speed typing.  It's not a good board for robust gaming or programming, though.

I second the amazing placement of the control key. However, why would you say it's not good for gaming?

[Vittra]

The margin between actuating a Topre switch and bottoming out is razor thin. This makes repetitive pressing annoying, and riding the actuation point impossible.

Such a situation may not be preferable in some games - most notably platformers or FPS.

[xtrafrood]

the polymer is strong enough to last a year of heavy typing so far with no wear

Wait.. are you saying that the HHKB would only last one year?

It's not a good board for robust gaming or programming, though.

Why not?

If Topre kept with the materials listed in the patent you'll have a hard time finding a topre dome that has cracked from stress. I doubt that there is a person on this forum that has seen a cracked Topre dome

[sacramentoplaya]

the polymer is strong enough to last a year of heavy typing so far with no wear

Wait.. are you saying that the HHKB would only last one year?

It's not a good board for robust gaming or programming, though.

Why not?

I meant I've had my HHKB2 for a year, used it heavily every day, and it's as good as new; so durability isn't an issue unless you take it hiking.  For my work software I need the F keys, and having to hold the FN key and then F key kind of stinks, but I knew this going into the HHKB2 lifestyle and got used to it pretty quick.  It's a non-issue now but might be to some people, especially intensive F-key users.

[iLLucionist]

the polymer is strong enough to last a year of heavy typing so far with no wear

Wait.. are you saying that the HHKB would only last one year?

It's not a good board for robust gaming or programming, though.

Why not?

I meant I've had my HHKB2 for a year, used it heavily every day, and it's as good as new; so durability isn't an issue unless you take it hiking.  For my work software I need the F keys, and having to hold the FN key and then F key kind of stinks, but I knew this going into the HHKB2 lifestyle and got used to it pretty quick.  It's a non-issue now but might be to some people, especially intensive F-key users.

Ah I see now. Yeah, well, I must say that in my house, the rubberdome of the HHKB wears out in 2 years or so. But I anticipated that already given stories of some hhkb owners saying that some hhkb is more stiff than the other.

[chryos1029]

But is HHKB Pro 2's layout hard to get used to?
And does the feeling of the two similar or vastly different from each other?

[sacramentoplaya]

But is HHKB Pro 2's layout hard to get used to?
And does the feeling of the two similar or vastly different from each other?

Can't speak to the comparison, but the HHKB2 is super easy to get used to.  Just get one.  You won't regret it, and if you do someone here will buy it from you, if not me .

[Polymer]

Ah I see now. Yeah, well, I must say that in my house, the rubberdome of the HHKB wears out in 2 years or so. But I anticipated that already given stories of some hhkb owners saying that some hhkb is more stiff than the other.

Your rubber dome has worn out in 2 years??  Or are you saying you think it will?  Or are you saying it hasn't after 2 years?

Can you post pics?  That would be interesting...you really don't hear or see anyone talk about that on here...

[iLLucionist]

Ah I see now. Yeah, well, I must say that in my house, the rubberdome of the HHKB wears out in 2 years or so. But I anticipated that already given stories of some hhkb owners saying that some hhkb is more stiff than the other.

Your rubber dome has worn out in 2 years??  Or are you saying you think it will?  Or are you saying it hasn't after 2 years?

Can you post pics?  That would be interesting...you really don't hear or see anyone talk about that on here...

Let me be clear and specific to avoid confusion. I bought a black HHKB two years go and used it as my daily driver before moving onto my KUL ES 87 as daily driver and now my 87U 55g as daily driver.

The first thing I noticed upon pushing down keys was that it was way stiffer than I expected giving these "topre is buttersmooth" stories. Then I read here that people say that sometimes they leave some boxes longer in storage at the manufacturer or at the seller, so the rubberdome already hardens a bit.

So then I bought a second white hhkb and that IS indeed butter smooth.

My black HHKB is SO hard now that YES I would say it HAS worn out and I should replace the rubber dome. It feels as bad as a regular crappy logitech keyboard. Well... not THAT bad of course. But it feels dry, it feels hard.

My 1.5y old white hhkb is perfect, and so is my 3m old black 87u 55g.

[bocahgundul]

Yeah that's the disadvantage of topre. They're still a rubber dome after all

So what I want to know is, are there a way to mako rubber dome back to its new state?

[iLLucionist]

Yeah that's the disadvantage of topre. They're still a rubber dome after all

So what I want to know is, are there a way to mako rubber dome back to its new state?

I guess buy new domes and swap em? But I was thinking.. soft rubber has plasticisers in it right? And they slowly evaporate thus making the domes stiff, right? Couldn't they make the domes of higher quality? It feels like the domes in topre boards is actually quite cheap. I've also rubber that's soft that I have for more than 5 years.

[rowdy]

Ah I see now. Yeah, well, I must say that in my house, the rubberdome of the HHKB wears out in 2 years or so. But I anticipated that already given stories of some hhkb owners saying that some hhkb is more stiff than the other.

Your rubber dome has worn out in 2 years??  Or are you saying you think it will?  Or are you saying it hasn't after 2 years?

Can you post pics?  That would be interesting...you really don't hear or see anyone talk about that on here...

Let me be clear and specific to avoid confusion. I bought a black HHKB two years go and used it as my daily driver before moving onto my KUL ES 87 as daily driver and now my 87U 55g as daily driver.

The first thing I noticed upon pushing down keys was that it was way stiffer than I expected giving these "topre is buttersmooth" stories. Then I read here that people say that sometimes they leave some boxes longer in storage at the manufacturer or at the seller, so the rubberdome already hardens a bit.

So then I bought a second white hhkb and that IS indeed butter smooth.

My black HHKB is SO hard now that YES I would say it HAS worn out and I should replace the rubber dome. It feels as bad as a regular crappy logitech keyboard. Well... not THAT bad of course. But it feels dry, it feels hard.

My 1.5y old white hhkb is perfect, and so is my 3m old black 87u 55g.

My white HHKB is about 5 years old (just over, actually), and is as smooth as.

Maybe it had something to do with the environment where the keyboard was stored - extremes of temperature or humidity perhaps?

[iLLucionist]

Ah I see now. Yeah, well, I must say that in my house, the rubberdome of the HHKB wears out in 2 years or so. But I anticipated that already given stories of some hhkb owners saying that some hhkb is more stiff than the other.

Your rubber dome has worn out in 2 years??  Or are you saying you think it will?  Or are you saying it hasn't after 2 years?

Can you post pics?  That would be interesting...you really don't hear or see anyone talk about that on here...

Let me be clear and specific to avoid confusion. I bought a black HHKB two years go and used it as my daily driver before moving onto my KUL ES 87 as daily driver and now my 87U 55g as daily driver.

The first thing I noticed upon pushing down keys was that it was way stiffer than I expected giving these "topre is buttersmooth" stories. Then I read here that people say that sometimes they leave some boxes longer in storage at the manufacturer or at the seller, so the rubberdome already hardens a bit.

So then I bought a second white hhkb and that IS indeed butter smooth.

My black HHKB is SO hard now that YES I would say it HAS worn out and I should replace the rubber dome. It feels as bad as a regular crappy logitech keyboard. Well... not THAT bad of course. But it feels dry, it feels hard.

My 1.5y old white hhkb is perfect, and so is my 3m old black 87u 55g.

My white HHKB is about 5 years old (just over, actually), and is as smooth as.

Maybe it had something to do with the environment where the keyboard was stored - extremes of temperature or humidity perhaps?

Yeah perhaps my first was just and old / bad one. That's why I bought a white one coz people keep saying it is softer than the black one.

All my other topres are smooth as butter, just that only one. But as a collector (and heavy OCD'er) I hope that they will last 10+ years.

[rowdy]

Ah I see now. Yeah, well, I must say that in my house, the rubberdome of the HHKB wears out in 2 years or so. But I anticipated that already given stories of some hhkb owners saying that some hhkb is more stiff than the other.

Your rubber dome has worn out in 2 years??  Or are you saying you think it will?  Or are you saying it hasn't after 2 years?

Can you post pics?  That would be interesting...you really don't hear or see anyone talk about that on here...

Let me be clear and specific to avoid confusion. I bought a black HHKB two years go and used it as my daily driver before moving onto my KUL ES 87 as daily driver and now my 87U 55g as daily driver.

The first thing I noticed upon pushing down keys was that it was way stiffer than I expected giving these "topre is buttersmooth" stories. Then I read here that people say that sometimes they leave some boxes longer in storage at the manufacturer or at the seller, so the rubberdome already hardens a bit.

So then I bought a second white hhkb and that IS indeed butter smooth.

My black HHKB is SO hard now that YES I would say it HAS worn out and I should replace the rubber dome. It feels as bad as a regular crappy logitech keyboard. Well... not THAT bad of course. But it feels dry, it feels hard.

My 1.5y old white hhkb is perfect, and so is my 3m old black 87u 55g.

My white HHKB is about 5 years old (just over, actually), and is as smooth as.

Maybe it had something to do with the environment where the keyboard was stored - extremes of temperature or humidity perhaps?

Yeah perhaps my first was just and old / bad one. That's why I bought a white one coz people keep saying it is softer than the black one.

All my other topres are smooth as butter, just that only one. But as a collector (and heavy OCD'er) I hope that they will last 10+ years.

We've had a couple of members with HHKB Pro 1 that has lasted well for about that long.  Albeit a little yellowed, but that too can be rectified.

[iLLucionist]

Ah I see now. Yeah, well, I must say that in my house, the rubberdome of the HHKB wears out in 2 years or so. But I anticipated that already given stories of some hhkb owners saying that some hhkb is more stiff than the other.

Your rubber dome has worn out in 2 years??  Or are you saying you think it will?  Or are you saying it hasn't after 2 years?

Can you post pics?  That would be interesting...you really don't hear or see anyone talk about that on here...

Let me be clear and specific to avoid confusion. I bought a black HHKB two years go and used it as my daily driver before moving onto my KUL ES 87 as daily driver and now my 87U 55g as daily driver.

The first thing I noticed upon pushing down keys was that it was way stiffer than I expected giving these "topre is buttersmooth" stories. Then I read here that people say that sometimes they leave some boxes longer in storage at the manufacturer or at the seller, so the rubberdome already hardens a bit.

So then I bought a second white hhkb and that IS indeed butter smooth.

My black HHKB is SO hard now that YES I would say it HAS worn out and I should replace the rubber dome. It feels as bad as a regular crappy logitech keyboard. Well... not THAT bad of course. But it feels dry, it feels hard.

My 1.5y old white hhkb is perfect, and so is my 3m old black 87u 55g.

My white HHKB is about 5 years old (just over, actually), and is as smooth as.

Maybe it had something to do with the environment where the keyboard was stored - extremes of temperature or humidity perhaps?

Yeah perhaps my first was just and old / bad one. That's why I bought a white one coz people keep saying it is softer than the black one.

All my other topres are smooth as butter, just that only one. But as a collector (and heavy OCD'er) I hope that they will last 10+ years.

We've had a couple of members with HHKB Pro 1 that has lasted well for about that long.  Albeit a little yellowed, but that too can be rectified.

That's really cool!

[rowdy]

Ah I see now. Yeah, well, I must say that in my house, the rubberdome of the HHKB wears out in 2 years or so. But I anticipated that already given stories of some hhkb owners saying that some hhkb is more stiff than the other.

Your rubber dome has worn out in 2 years??  Or are you saying you think it will?  Or are you saying it hasn't after 2 years?

Can you post pics?  That would be interesting...you really don't hear or see anyone talk about that on here...

Let me be clear and specific to avoid confusion. I bought a black HHKB two years go and used it as my daily driver before moving onto my KUL ES 87 as daily driver and now my 87U 55g as daily driver.

The first thing I noticed upon pushing down keys was that it was way stiffer than I expected giving these "topre is buttersmooth" stories. Then I read here that people say that sometimes they leave some boxes longer in storage at the manufacturer or at the seller, so the rubberdome already hardens a bit.

So then I bought a second white hhkb and that IS indeed butter smooth.

My black HHKB is SO hard now that YES I would say it HAS worn out and I should replace the rubber dome. It feels as bad as a regular crappy logitech keyboard. Well... not THAT bad of course. But it feels dry, it feels hard.

My 1.5y old white hhkb is perfect, and so is my 3m old black 87u 55g.

My white HHKB is about 5 years old (just over, actually), and is as smooth as.

Maybe it had something to do with the environment where the keyboard was stored - extremes of temperature or humidity perhaps?

Yeah perhaps my first was just and old / bad one. That's why I bought a white one coz people keep saying it is softer than the black one.

All my other topres are smooth as butter, just that only one. But as a collector (and heavy OCD'er) I hope that they will last 10+ years.

We've had a couple of members with HHKB Pro 1 that has lasted well for about that long.  Albeit a little yellowed, but that too can be rectified.

That's really cool!

Brilliant restoration!

He's not the only one with a HHKB Pro 1 - I've seen a couple of new members come through with them, and asked how they were holding up.

All (might have been 2 at various stages) said they were holding up very well.

[iLLucionist]

All (might have been 2 at various stages) said they were holding up very well.

I also have this lying around... still works as new.. all switches intact:

[rowdy]

All (might have been 2 at various stages) said they were holding up very well.

I also have this lying around... still works as new.. all switches intact:

(Attachment Link)

I've wondered with that - there's no Esc, and no Ctrl to do Ctrl-[ - how do you generate an Esc code?

[iLLucionist]

All (might have been 2 at various stages) said they were holding up very well.

I also have this lying around... still works as new.. all switches intact:

(Attachment Link)

I've wondered with that - there's no Esc, and no Ctrl to do Ctrl-[ - how do you generate an Esc code?

I'm not an expert on how to generate an esc code, but I believe the absence of esc had to do with the fact that Apple's design team found an esc as dos had not intuitive because esc usually means escaping from dialogs / closing dialogs. So you sitting there looking at dialogs / windows and all of a sudden the window is gone. Why? Because you pressed a key. Not sure, but I believe that was the story why there is no esc. It is a non-reversible UI operation, which they found appalling.

Ctrl / Ctrl-[.. on a Mac everything is Cmd +

[rowdy]

All (might have been 2 at various stages) said they were holding up very well.

I also have this lying around... still works as new.. all switches intact:

(Attachment Link)

I've wondered with that - there's no Esc, and no Ctrl to do Ctrl-[ - how do you generate an Esc code?

I'm not an expert on how to generate an esc code, but I believe the absence of esc had to do with the fact that Apple's design team found an esc as dos had not intuitive because esc usually means escaping from dialogs / closing dialogs. So you sitting there looking at dialogs / windows and all of a sudden the window is gone. Why? Because you pressed a key. Not sure, but I believe that was the story why there is no esc. It is a non-reversible UI operation, which they found appalling.

Ctrl / Ctrl-[.. on a Mac everything is Cmd +

Ctrl for control sequences (as defined in ASCII), Cmd for OS commands

[Mrs. Butter]

Leopold FC660c (topre) --> it's like a hhkb with arrow cluster. You should at least throw it into the mix of boards to consider.

Only downside to a FC660c is that you can't program it like an hhkb (see recent creation of hhkb external card which makes this possible) -- if you're into that.

[iLLucionist]

Leopold FC660c (topre) --> it's like a hhkb with arrow cluster. You should at least throw it into the mix of boards to consider.

Only downside to a FC660c is that you can't program it like an hhkb (see recent creation of hhkb external card which makes this possible) -- if you're into that.

Leopold is a nice keyboard indeed if you dig the arrow cluster. But they are difficult to obtain right now, right? At least EK doesn't have them anymore.

[Mrs. Butter]

Leopold FC660c (topre) --> it's like a hhkb with arrow cluster. You should at least throw it into the mix of boards to consider.

Only downside to a FC660c is that you can't program it like an hhkb (see recent creation of hhkb external card which makes this possible) -- if you're into that.

Leopold is a nice keyboard indeed if you dig the arrow cluster. But they are difficult to obtain right now, right? At least EK doesn't have them anymore.

EK always has a very low stock of topre keyboards. But you can easily get one in all the usual places, even Amazon has it.

[bocahgundul]

Leopold FC660c (topre) --> it's like a hhkb with arrow cluster. You should at least throw it into the mix of boards to consider.

Only downside to a FC660c is that you can't program it like an hhkb (see recent creation of hhkb external card which makes this possible) -- if you're into that.

Totally wrong

fc660c(rap) is not hhkb with arrows
They feel like a small realforce so not like hhkb in anyway

[cryptokey]

HHKB.  If you want a TKL Topre, then go Realforce.  Novatouch gives you MX caps at the expense of the feels.

[breaker9691]

I'm not really enjoy the sound of Novatouch
Video :

i've used them both and decide to keep HHKB pro 2 and buy  Type-s too, it's pretty different, typing feel, the touch is totally different

Novatouch have purple topre which mean is more silence but the sound its bad, i don't like it in anyway

[rowdy]

I'm not really enjoy the sound of Novatouch
Video :

i've used them both and decide to keep HHKB pro 2 and buy  Type-s too, it's pretty different, typing feel, the touch is totally different

Novatouch have purple topre which mean is more silence but the sound its bad, i don't like it in anyway

Case-mount wins again

[iLLucionist]

I'm not really enjoy the sound of Novatouch
Video :

i've used them both and decide to keep HHKB pro 2 and buy  Type-s too, it's pretty different, typing feel, the touch is totally different

Novatouch have purple topre which mean is more silence but the sound its bad, i don't like it in anyway

It sounds a bit... high pitched? More in the direction of cherry blues?

[klennkellon]

I'm not really enjoy the sound of Novatouch
Video :

i've used them both and decide to keep HHKB pro 2 and buy  Type-s too, it's pretty different, typing feel, the touch is totally different

Novatouch have purple topre which mean is more silence but the sound its bad, i don't like it in anyway

They sound really similar to me, the nova is more rattly though.

[ajx]

I'm not really enjoy the sound of Novatouch
Video :

i've used them both and decide to keep HHKB pro 2 and buy  Type-s too, it's pretty different, typing feel, the touch is totally different

Novatouch have purple topre which mean is more silence but the sound its bad, i don't like it in anyway

Case-mount wins again

Silencing mod will turn Novatouch as one of best Topre keyboard in term of feeling
Its literally day and night
Yes its shame we need to silence it in order to get proper feeling (+ adding good PBT keycaps) but once done, jeez, it feels great on you hands
Anyway i also silenced my HHKB, cant go back on non silenced Topre anymore

[appleonama]

hhkb pro 2

the novatouch is horrible garbo

[iLLucionist]

wait... is the novatouch case mounted?

[rowdy]

wait... is the novatouch case mounted?

AFAIK plate mounted.

[iLLucionist]

wait... is the novatouch case mounted?

AFAIK plate mounted.

Ah ok. It sounds case mounted. It sounds so light... almost like a 15$ Logitech dome.

[FLFisherman]

Leopold FC660c (topre) --> it's like a hhkb with arrow cluster. You should at least throw it into the mix of boards to consider.

Only downside to a FC660c is that you can't program it like an hhkb (see recent creation of hhkb external card which makes this possible) -- if you're into that.

Leopold is a nice keyboard indeed if you dig the arrow cluster. But they are difficult to obtain right now, right? At least EK doesn't have them anymore.

EK always has a very low stock of topre keyboards. But you can easily get one in all the usual places, even Amazon has it.

And you could always get it used. Only adds to the glory of the Topre keyboard.

[breaker9691]

hhkb pro 2

the novatouch is horrible garbo

what's have you do ? i've make my HHKB pro2 to silence and get it back now

[this's when i moded, it exactly like type-s without whistle]

[chryos1029]

Stock HHKB is better than stock NT
Silenced NT is better than stock HHKB
Silenced NT feels better than silenced HHKB
HHKB layout/keyboard ergonomic/shape is better than NT
NT has more keys (clusters, f-keys...) while HHKB misses a lack of them
I have both, i prefer HHKB overall because i like 60% more than TKL, the HHKB layout looks also better to me but silenced NT is great keyboard aswell (in my opinion as i stated above, NT feels more firmly, sturdier in your hands)
Hard choice imo, both are very good (if it has been silenced)

What about unmodded Novatouch?
Does it really suck that much compared to stock HHKB Pro 2?

[demik]

Why is this even a question?

Novatouch/fc660c belongs in the garbage

[quasistellar]

Stock HHKB is better than stock NT
Silenced NT is better than stock HHKB
Silenced NT feels better than silenced HHKB
HHKB layout/keyboard ergonomic/shape is better than NT
NT has more keys (clusters, f-keys...) while HHKB misses a lack of them
I have both, i prefer HHKB overall because i like 60% more than TKL, the HHKB layout looks also better to me but silenced NT is great keyboard aswell (in my opinion as i stated above, NT feels more firmly, sturdier in your hands)
Hard choice imo, both are very good (if it has been silenced)

What about unmodded Novatouch?
Does it really suck that much compared to stock HHKB Pro 2?

Never used an HHKB (yet) but I can tell you the stock Novatouch is just fine in terms of "feel".  That is, if you put ear plugs in and don't hear the noise it makes, it feels great.  It's really let down by rattly stabs and the really harsh clack on the upstroke.

Half an hour's worth of modding takes care of both though.  You still will need better keycaps, though, as the stock ones are just cheapo thin ABS, but that's kinda the whole point of the Novatouch.  You can get a barebones one off Massdrop every once in a while.

[Anole]

If it were me, I would go for the Novatouch TKL, or a Noppo electrocapacitive, which has MX-compatible Topre clones, and is a full 108 key board.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

The Novatouch i see as the entry level foray into the world of Topre,  it will give you the core experience be it with lower build quality than a Realforce would if you are looking for TKL.  It's also noisier than any of the other Topre keyboards unless you are willing to put some serious mod work into it.  I look at Topre boards like this.

HHKB Pro 2 : Ideal Layout portable Topre Board with unique feeling case mounted switches
FC660C: Fairly portable be it much heavier than the HHKB with a more standard layout for those who can't get used to the HHKB and or Prefer plate mounting on Topre.
Realforce: The definitive TKL/Fullsize Topre board with fantastic build quality and has a 55G weight option for those whom want it.

All of the above boards come with stellar keycaps (especially the RF and HHKB)

THe Novatouch brings MX stems to the table but that's about it really.

It has a horrible sound profile
It feels a bit different to type on than the others IMO
Comes with horrible stock caps so you are going to need to spend the difference in cost to get decent caps anyways.  Granted this opens more custom options however.
Has a much more boring standard case design than any of the other Topre Keyboards.


While the modding will fix the horrible sound profile issues i feel like the Novatouch is the HOnda Civic of the Topre world....It will get you where you need to go and allow you to experience driving a car and many people mod them to death but it doesn't match up to the same thing as owning a BMW.   

My two cents

[ajx]

Nah you completely wrong, i had lubbed and silenced NT, it feels equally good as my silenced HHKB
I can tell non silenced and unlubbed Topre keyboards really sucks even your HHKB
NT is the way to go for someone who wants the best of Topre and MX Cherry keycaps compatibility but you have to mod it (imo, any Topre keyboards needs to be silenced)

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Nah you completely wrong, i had lubbed and silenced NT, it feels equally good as my silenced HHKB
I can tell non silenced and unlubbed Topre keyboards really sucks even your HHKB
NT is the way to go for someone who wants the best of Topre and MX Cherry keycaps compatibility but you have to mod it (imo, any Topre keyboards needs to be silenced)

Never personally been a fan of silenced Topre personally it just lacks a soul, it's like taking away the roar of the engine of a Corvette and replacing it with the dull silence of a Toyota Prius.  But to each their own.

[chryos1029]

Nah you completely wrong, i had lubbed and silenced NT, it feels equally good as my silenced HHKB
I can tell non silenced and unlubbed Topre keyboards really sucks even your HHKB
NT is the way to go for someone who wants the best of Topre and MX Cherry keycaps compatibility but you have to mod it (imo, any Topre keyboards needs to be silenced)

But is modding the keyboard hard and troublesome?
I scare it will screw up the keyboard 

[WarCommand]

HHKB.

[ajx]

It takes time to fully silence mod it but its nothing too difficult, trust me, i am a butterfingers but i ve managed to do it
There are some tutorials here (one reallt good from the creator of SpaceFN layout)

[Crossfire]

I've lubed NT, HHKB and RF87...and it's completely different beast. Topre's tend to be rattly and a bit high pitched when pressed...the problem is, that these sounds and feels really take away the thock and the switches kind of dance around in the tubes...it's because of these manufacturing tolerances imho...so adding a thin layer of lube on the sliders really cures these problems...you have nothing to break or screw up...just take your time and patience, trial & error and you'll be on your way to topre nirvana  
A sound check of my lubed RF 87U, on hard floor (mind you, it's even more bassy in RL):

[demik]

seems like you ****ed up your spacebar when putting your keyboard back together

[Crossfire]

Nah, it's just flipped 

[shortround]

The Novatouch just feels cheap to me.  When I tried it, it was loud and rattled.  The HHKB, especially the Type-S, is brat far the superior board.

I felt the same way with mine before putting the supplied o-rings on it and Ducky PBT caps.  The sound and shaky keycaps were much better after the o-rings. 

To the O.P. I own both keyboards and although the Novatouch is good, the HHKB still feels and sounds better if that matters to you.

[quasistellar]

It really comes down to whether you want to mod your board or not.

I love my Novatouch, but if I can get used to the 60% format after my Infinity arrives, I'll buy an HHKB and give it a go.  I use home, end, page up, and page down a ton, so having those under a function layer will take some getting used to.

[shortround]

It really comes down to whether you want to mod your board or not.

I love my Novatouch, but if I can get used to the 60% format after my Infinity arrives, I'll buy an HHKB and give it a go.  I use home, end, page up, and page down a ton, so having those under a function layer will take some getting used to.

It does kind of suck having those useful navigation keys under the function layer.  The good thing is that all the keys you listed are pretty close to the fn key on the hhkb so you can operate them with right hand alone.  For my arrow cluster I found that purple wasd caps work great, of course it bacame wads on my keyboard.  Wait, that sounds kind of gross. 

[calvinhousecat]

Nah you completely wrong, i had lubbed and silenced NT, it feels equally good as my silenced HHKB
I can tell non silenced and unlubbed Topre keyboards really sucks even your HHKB
NT is the way to go for someone who wants the best of Topre and MX Cherry keycaps compatibility but you have to mod it (imo, any Topre keyboards needs to be silenced)

This is a dumb question but when you mean silencing, are you just talking about O-Rings?

And lubing a Novatouch? Where do I lube? I've never lubed any keyboard before

[xtrafrood]

NT won't work with quite a few different artisan keycaps. You would literally have to replace your novatouch sliders if you wanted to install a Bro Cap

[quasistellar]

Nah you completely wrong, i had lubbed and silenced NT, it feels equally good as my silenced HHKB
I can tell non silenced and unlubbed Topre keyboards really sucks even your HHKB
NT is the way to go for someone who wants the best of Topre and MX Cherry keycaps compatibility but you have to mod it (imo, any Topre keyboards needs to be silenced)

This is a dumb question but when you mean silencing, are you just talking about O-Rings?

And lubing a Novatouch? Where do I lube? I've never lubed any keyboard before

They aren't orings. When silencing Topre, you are dampening the upstroke, not the bottoming out. To do this you must put some sort of dampening material on the sliders themselves. Lube can be applied to the slider cylinder as well, but I personally don't think it makes much difference.

 Do a Google search for Hypersphere's rings or ironed landing pads. On a Novatouch the hardest part is getting the case open, but there are tutorials out there.