Not that I know of. I know Matias is trying to set up new sets. Maybe an AT101W will fit it?
At the moment, there's no sets for sale from Matias. You could buy another board and swap caps?
Edit: Was on my phone and didn't see what sub-forum this was under. My bad.
Great news! I hope CPTBadAss saw this. I know he's always looking for Alps caps.
We've been focusing on getting the Mini Tactile Pro and Mini Quiet Pro completed, but you can expect to see coloured keycaps in the near future.
thick PBTYesss!!! I can't wait!
Great news! I hope CPTBadAss saw this. I know he's always looking for Alps caps.
He posted to this thread, so he probably did.
I'll post again when we're close to having the keycaps available.
I'm not sure if this is any good as a suggestion, but Cherry have started making MX switch keyboards bearing lower-profile keycaps. That might be nice to have on a Matias board.
Sort of related-- Even the ThinkPad brand has switched to lower-profile caps with broader surface area (some people are calling them 'chicklet', but they are still sculpted). Even if lower-profile isn't feasible for ALPS switches, making the cap surface a bit larger might be nice as I really enjoy the size/shape of the new ThinkPad caps.
I'm excited but I've gotta say, I'm a little disappointed it's going to thick PBT. Regardless, new Alps caps are going to be incredible :D
I'm excited but I've gotta say, I'm a little disappointed it's going to thick PBT. Regardless, new Alps caps are going to be incredible :D
Why disappointed?
I'm curious as to the material of the key cap for the Quiet Pro. Are they PBT or ABS?
Mac-Dvorak keycaps, with accented characters and symbols, like the TactilePro? :)
To do this, we'd have to eliminate the staggered heights. The keycaps would be all the same height, and essentially flat like a laptop keyboard.
appointed?
Thick PBT is good mainly for dyesub legends, laser etched on top will wear off due to Matias using black keycaps and they cant dyesub black color. Maeby Matias should offer side laser etched ones for people that are not touch typers.
The nice thing about uniform-profile keycaps is that you can easily support alternate layouts. Just include a flat F and J, and a homing U, H, T, and N - instant Dvorak and Colemak support! (Bonus points for a capslock-sized backspace for Colemak users.)
I realize I'm talking about a niche of an already-niche market, but it might be a good way to further distinguish your product.
I already love how thick it looked. Can't wait!!
They live!! What material did you guys end up with Matias?
Would I be over stepping my bounds if I told youI love you Matias???
Mine if I jump in on this love fest?
Fantastic news Matias. I can't wait for when we can purchase a set. Thank you!
BTW, see attached.
This is a sneak preview of what you can expect. The left one is a CNC of one of the new caps. The right one is our current keycap.
Boner alert!
Can't wait to upgrade my keyboards with those.
Will you dare showing the font soon?
Matias,
If Diatec (Filco) or Ducky came forward and said "We'd love to build Alps boards with your switches but our supplier no longer has the keycap tooling for these switches" would you be able to sell them?
The new caps should be available around February/March. We'll be setting up group-buys to gauge interest in specific sets.
There are a few projects already underway, including one that I'm running...
http://geekhack.org/?topic=50037
http://geekhack.org/?topic=44851.msg932446#msg932446
http://geekhack.org/?topic=49930.0
I'm hoping to help support these projects with various caps options. Pretty excited to see all the positive momentum.
We'll need to see how well lasered PBT holds up in testing. More likely we'll use UV printing on black caps, which is a mixture of paint and UV material. This gives you vibrant colour and wear resistance.
We'll need to see how well lasered PBT holds up in testing. More likely we'll use UV printing on black caps, which is a mixture of paint and UV material. This gives you vibrant colour and wear resistance.
How is the UV-impregnated paint applied to the keycap?
I'm still trying to get my head around the two different types of pad printing, and I think you suggested previously that the "non-decal" pad printing might be "UV printing".
Another company suggested that possibly a mixture of epoxy and pigment was used in the past (late 80s/early 90s keyboards).
If you need any prototype testing, lemme know ;)
It's silkscreened on, usually the whole keyboard at once, but in small quantities, you can also silkscreen individual keys by hand and then run them through a UV machine.
SP offer pad printing, but not silkscreen (and are not aware of the existence of the latter). EK believe that silkscreen is manual labour only, with no UV protection option. Devlin would be surprised if anyone used silkscreen. Cherry ridiculed the claims of silkscreen printing.
I'm going by products sold in the UK — it's virtually all "decal" style. That's virtually all I see, from any consumer or business brand, year upon year. It's some sort of hardened coating (which isn't, as it comes off easily, and the writing along with it) over flat painted legends.
Filco keyboards are claimed to be pad-printed too, but I've never seen any official word on their printing technique. The all-over spray coating though is evident from examination of a keycap (you can see all the spray splatter on the underside).
Most high-end brands now prefer laser, and recently laser has reached the point that vivid white on black is possible. The only company who ever pulled off the scorched gold-on-black look is Topre, where it looks more like gold thick ink printing.
"Gold-on-black" actually looks really nice on Topre boards — it looks entirely deliberate and very refined, especially with their charcoal keyboard colour.¹ Aren't Topre caps all PBT except for spacebar? Topre reportedly also coat the keycap to protect the laser etching.
As such, it's very hard to gauge the wear resistance of the thick ink printing. Is the ink laid on thick in the intention that it will abrade from top to bottom slowly (instead of flake off), with the extra thickness extending its longevity? I honestly don't know. It's surprisingly hard to find out anything for certain about how 99.9% of keyboards are labelled! It's very rare to see wear on vintage NTC keyboards, but it's just as likely that those that did wear, simply got binned! (Pad printing—which we assume 99% of keyboards use—seems to either last forever, or all come off in short order.)I work at the second (or maybe third, counting fujitsu themselves) largest fujustu repair place in the US.
It would certainly be interesting if this thick ink printing did represent a harder-wearing, longer life process. SP aren't able to offer any insight, only that they use an epoxy+ink mixture that they feel is just how it's done everywhere.
I'm thinking of a Lifebook A512. I never got chance to take a photo of the keyboard, but essentially it's just thick ink printing.
If you can do white on black, like cherry's no infilled POM, it will be one of the best keycap sets available for any platform, and I'll be getting a DIY matias for sure in that case.
Do they run it through a UV machine?
The keyboard on the Lifebook A512 is a nice size for something with a number pad, but I'm not a fan of the single-width modifier keys. They make my thumbs get all lost and confused.
The keyboard on the Lifebook A512 is a nice size for something with a number pad, but I'm not a fan of the single-width modifier keys. They make my thumbs get all lost and confused.
I just remember that the switches were reasonable, but not a patch on those in the Latitude E4310, my current gold standard for scissor switches. The customer was thrilled with the keyboard — she made a special point of mentioning how good it was (with no prompting on my part).
The keyboard on the Latitude was most likely made by Sunrex. They are the main supplier of scissor modules to Dell, Apple, and others.
Thanks for all the cool insider information, matias. I'm always interested in OEM's and especially manufacturing processes. I will have to look into sunrex I think.
These are my two current examples of "non-decal" keys:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Acer_Aspire_1362LC_keyboard_detail.jpg
http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:Dell_Latitude_E6430_legends.jpg
What's "UV printing"? No-one has actually defined it yet. The only thing defined is that certain unspecified substances alter upon exposure to UV light to some unspecified degree of hardness, and that one or more of these substances are transparent and can be used as a protective layer above pad printing. SP's pad printing is epoxy+ink, with optional UV "selective image" ("decal") clear coating or all-over spray coating. (I don't know if "selective image" is an industry term or not.)
You said: "These are both most likely UV printing."
Do you have insider knowledge that Dell use something called "UV printing"?
Does "UV printing" have some sort of specific visual characteristic that you recognised in the photograph?
You must know something that allowed you to draw that conclusion.
Lenovo X230:Show Image(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/dork_vader/Keycaps/20131102_170521.jpg)
The above keyboard is similar to the X220's in terms of keycap printing. The same keyboard is used on the T430 and W530; certainly the same technology on the previous models, X220, T420s& T420, W520
Since the legends will be printed/lasered, not double-shot, it should be theoretically to do custom designs with custom fonts/icons without any expensive tooling, right?
Any chance we could order small-to-medium batches of caps with custom legend designs? (Or in other words, any idea what the MOQ would be for lasered/printed caps?) Also, what kinds of plastic colors can you handle? Thick PBT sounds lovely. Can you silkscreen/laser on the sides of caps, or just on the top?
Also, let me second the request for some kind of uniform-profile caps (i.e. all same-sized keys the same shape), if it’s possible to make them. The alps based projects I'm working on have quite unusual layouts that don't work too well with the standard set of cap profiles. It’s probably unlikely, but my favorite would be to see some spherical (like SP's SA row 3) caps.
Finally, it would be awesome to have some options for blanks!
Thanks! Keep up all the awesome work!
One more question, though maybe it can’t be answered yet.. What are the switches like on the reduced-size arrow/etc. keys on the upcoming ergo board? Do they still use an alps mount? Seems like a typical Alps-alike switch is going to be at least a bit too big to fit under that amount of space. If it’s a unique switch / unique keycap, would some of those be for sale, and would the keycaps be compatible with any earlier switches, e.g. the old half-depth linear Alps switches used on some laptops?
The keycaps will be available for sale as soon as we have the tooling done. They will fit any ALPS-compatible switches.
Yeah, I’ve been curious for a long time about whether a keyboard would work if most of the keys were about 75-80% as deep (front-back distance) as the normal square format. I think it might be possible to fit keys into a smaller space, or fit more of them in the same space and still have everything reachable. [Of course, this would take some getting used to for a user, but I expect not too long.]The datalux spacesaver does this.
In other words, it would be interesting to try to make a full keyboard out of just the reduced-depth keys.
Yeah, I’ve been curious for a long time about whether a keyboard would work if most of the keys were about 75-80% as deep (front-back distance) as the normal square format. I think it might be possible to fit keys into a smaller space, or fit more of them in the same space and still have everything reachable. [Of course, this would take some getting used to for a user, but I expect not too long.]The datalux spacesaver does this.
In other words, it would be interesting to try to make a full keyboard out of just the reduced-depth keys.
I’m not too convinced by the few papers I’ve seen though. They stuck with the same basic keyboard layout, and just changed the key shape. My in-progress prototype has a finger section that looks like this (ignore the specific keycaps; they just happened to be from the right rows from an old Apple donor keyboard):Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/ihsLMdz.jpg)
With this layout, every key is very easily reachable with no overall hand movement or wrist twisting required.
I think such a layout would work pretty well with keycaps the size of the new ones from the Matias ergo board, and then could fit an extra row of keys in the same space (and therefore still reachable). But it would take some testing, for sure
Since the legends will be printed/lasered, not double-shot, it should be theoretically to do custom designs with custom fonts/icons without any expensive tooling, right?
Lasering requires no tooling. It's just a matter of setting up the machine. For printing, we'd need to have film made.It’s probably too early to say here, but do you have any idea what the MOQ / prices would be for custom-legend caps, either for lasering or for printing? If figuring that out is a few months away, no worries.
The keycaps will be available for sale as soon as we have the tooling done. They will fit any ALPS-compatible switches.Just out of curiosity, is there any publicly mentionable ETA on the tooling? I guess we know it should at least be “before august”. :-)
The keycaps will be available for sale as soon as we have the tooling done. They will fit any ALPS-compatible switches.Just out of curiosity, is there any publicly mentionable ETA on the tooling? I guess we know it should at least be “before august”. :-)
Longer answer... We're doing the tooling in stages. We've never done PBT injection before, and it's a little tricky for longer keys like the spacebar, so we're tooling those first.
What's "UV printing"? No-one has actually defined it yet. The only thing defined is that certain unspecified substances alter upon exposure to UV light to some unspecified degree of hardness, and that one or more of these substances are transparent and can be used as a protective layer above pad printing. SP's pad printing is epoxy+ink, with optional UV "selective image" ("decal") clear coating or all-over spray coating. (I don't know if "selective image" is an industry term or not.)
Yes, the new caps are thick PBT.
Yes, the new caps are thick PBT.
The old caps will still be available in thin ABS for those who are into that.
I think you have already answered this, but I just wanted to double check.
Will you guys be selling these new PBT key caps separately also?
I think you have already answered this, but I just wanted to double check.
Will you guys be selling these new PBT key caps separately also?
Yes, we'll be selling the PBT caps as well. You can see attached photos of the two we've done so far... a 1.5x2.5 spacebar and an R4 1x1.25:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
I think you have already answered this, but I just wanted to double check.
Will you guys be selling these new PBT key caps separately also?
Yes, we'll be selling the PBT caps as well. You can see attached photos of the two we've done so far... a 1.5x2.5 spacebar and an R4 1x1.25:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Nice. Do you think you will of white key caps with black legends also?
I think you have already answered this, but I just wanted to double check.
Will you guys be selling these new PBT key caps separately also?
Yes, we'll be selling the PBT caps as well. You can see attached photos of the two we've done so far... a 1.5x2.5 spacebar and an R4 1x1.25:
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
Nice. Do you think you will of white key caps with black legends also?
Yes, we plan to offer both Black and White caps.
Great. I'm planning on getting the KBParadise V60 MTS with matias switches. Do you think your new caps will fit that key board?
The 1x1, 1x1.25, 1x1.5, and 1x1.75 keys should fit easily. For bigger keys with balance bars, I'm not sure.Are you planning to make PBT caps for your other keyboards as well sometime (and ideally offer those keycap shapes to other folks), or just the ErgoPro?
The keycaps will be available for sale as soon as we have the tooling done. They will fit any ALPS-compatible switches.Just out of curiosity, is there any publicly mentionable ETA on the tooling? I guess we know it should at least be “before august”. :-)
Short answer... before August for keys needed for the Ergo Pro.
Longer answer... We're doing the tooling in stages. We've never done PBT injection before, and it's a little tricky for longer keys like the spacebar, so we're tooling those first.
Extra keys for the ALPs switch how brilliant is that :thumb: . Good to have a variety of switches now to support, got to get me some matias keyboards......
Are you planning to make PBT caps for your other keyboards as well sometime (and ideally offer those keycap shapes to other folks), or just the ErgoPro?
The new PBT caps will be made available for sale as soon as they are completed.
We'll also use them on models that need them -- the Ergo Pro for example, needs the bigger and smaller caps that didn't exist before. For other models, we plan to make them available as an upgrade.
man, those are extremely geometrically clean for thick PBT tooling. nice job. commendations to your toolmakers :thumb:
How will the font be applied to the key-cap? Will you be using dye-sub or will you be burning the letters/numbers into the PBT?
Most likely we'll use a process called UV printing. Legends will be printed using paint infused with UV coating material, and then run through a UV machine.
This allows us to print white on black caps, which is not possible using dye-sub.
I wonder how the UV machine affects later applications of dye. If it’s possible to dye (e.g. with RIT dye) the white caps and not harm the black legends, then making gray (or whatever other color) should be plenty achievable for the DIY crowd.
Will you also be using GREY coloured PBT, because I would buy the White and Grey Key-sets giving your Matias Keyboard an old style layout similar to a Cherry/IBM.
yah, we don't have a cross-posting mechanism yet. i'm sure someone will catch on eventually and link this ;)man, those are extremely geometrically clean for thick PBT tooling. nice job. commendations to your toolmakers :thumb:
Thanks!
I probably should've cross-posted to the keycaps forum, but didn't think of it. Actually, I'm not sure that the board software supports it.
Cross posted here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58228.0)
Can you speak to the durability of UV printing vs. dyesub?
Hi there Matias, what about the 60% or it will be the Ergo Pro first at this moment seeing that the availability of Ergo Pro is 3 more months to go.
Hi there Matias, what about the 60% or it will be the Ergo Pro first at this moment seeing that the availability of Ergo Pro is 3 more months to go.
Thanks for asking...
The 60% keyboard shares a lot of keycaps with the Ergo Pro, so it's going to have to come after. It also needs 3 more keycaps which the Ergo Pro doesn't have, so there will be some additional keycap tooling required.
I've been trying to decide how soon to do the IC for it. I figured it would be better if the IC were closer to the eventual release date. As always, I'm open to suggestions.
Hi there Matias, what about the 60% or it will be the Ergo Pro first at this moment seeing that the availability of Ergo Pro is 3 more months to go.
Thanks for asking...
The 60% keyboard shares a lot of keycaps with the Ergo Pro, so it's going to have to come after. It also needs 3 more keycaps which the Ergo Pro doesn't have, so there will be some additional keycap tooling required.
I've been trying to decide how soon to do the IC for it. I figured it would be better if the IC were closer to the eventual release date. As always, I'm open to suggestions.
What will the layout & case look like on the upcoming 60%?
What will the layout & case look like on the upcoming 60%?
What will the layout & case look like on the upcoming 60%?
The case would be minimalist -- as small as we can make it. The layout would be something like this...
(Attachment Link)
This gives you all the most important keys, without having to go through an Fn layer. It's essentially a Tenkeyless without the function keys.
What size is that space bar?
The page up/down and home/end placing is interesting. I would remap it to have the backspace one key down.
What size is that space bar?
I've been trying to decide how soon to do the IC for it. I figured it would be better if the IC were closer to the eventual release date. As always, I'm open to suggestions.
What will the layout & case look like on the upcoming 60%?
The case would be minimalist -- as small as we can make it. The layout would be something like this...
(Attachment Link)
This gives you all the most important keys, without having to go through an Fn layer. It's essentially a Tenkeyless without the function keys.
The page up/down and home/end placing is interesting. I would remap it to have the backspace one key down.
What size is that space bar?
HHKB backspace placement would be a deal breaker for me. That layout makes my right hand hurt in like 5 minutes :(
Easy solution: programmability!
Having your pinkie travel all the way to the corner is more comfortable for you?I’m pretty sure most people use their ring finger to hit the backward delete key.
Having your pinkie travel all the way to the corner is more comfortable for you?I’m pretty sure most people use their ring finger to hit the backward delete key.
But anyway, Matias: have you considered just using the same width spacebars as on the ErgoPro, and having 2 of them? (Then one can be used as backspace, which is better than using anything in the top right corner.)
Having your pinkie travel all the way to the corner is more comfortable for you?I’m pretty sure most people use their ring finger to hit the backward delete key.
But anyway, Matias: have you considered just using the same width spacebars as on the ErgoPro, and having 2 of them? (Then one can be used as backspace, which is better than using anything in the top right corner.)
This. My hands have gotten used to the ANSI layout for so long that hitting the BS key with my ring finger is super relaxed and doesn't require moving my wrists. Swapping that position over to where the \ key is makes my wrists hurt because of how often I have to hit it.
This gives you all the most important keys, without having to go through an Fn layer. It's essentially a Tenkeyless without the function keys.
This gives you all the most important keys, without having to go through an Fn layer. It's essentially a Tenkeyless without the function keys.
Mmm, that's an interesting layout. I wasn't sure about the 60% but I could get used to this. Any chance this can be offered with the clicky switches? I guess that's a question for the IC.
But anyway, Matias: have you considered just using the same width spacebars as on the ErgoPro, and having 2 of them? (Then one can be used as backspace, which is better than using anything in the top right corner.)
Yes, we'd offer both quiet and clicky switch types, and perhaps include support for Cherry switches where possible.
We're also considering offering an aluminum case option.
In any case, I suspect most people would prefer a normal spacebar.
Yes, we'd offer both quiet and clicky switch types, and perhaps include support for Cherry switches where possible.
We're also considering offering an aluminum case option.
If you’re finished figuring out the 2.5x1.5 spacebars, is there any way I could buy like 10 of them, in whatever color?
Also, I’m very interested if/when you can handle 2.75x1 spacebars, 1x.75 caps of whatever profile, or bottom row 1x1.5 caps.
Probably around August for the PBT caps. For ABS caps, we expect to be up and running soon.
All very exciting stuff! But as an ISO layout user please tell me you'll release the PBT caps in ISO too...
All very exciting stuff! But as an ISO layout user please tell me you'll release the PBT caps in ISO too...
Thanks for asking...
Eventually, we expect to have the entire gamut of keycaps for all layouts in PBT. The ones needed for the Ergo Pro will be first, likely followed by the ones for the 60% keyboard.
I hope to have the complete tooling for all caps done by the end of the year. The ones needed for the Ergo Pro should be available around August. The ones needed for the 60% board will depend on how soon we do the IC (interest check).
There are ABS caps and coming soon???!!! YES!
Don't forget folks who have the tactile pro/mini pro/quiet pro/laptop pro! Would love some nice PBT caps for my Laptop Pro & Tactile Pro :)
Long time lurker, first time poster ;)
What method/s will be the best/quickest way to get hold of the keycap sets when they're ready to go? GH GB? MassDrop? Matias webstore?
What will the layout & case look like on the upcoming 60%?
The case would be minimalist -- as small as we can make it. The layout would be something like this...
(Attachment Link)
This gives you all the most important keys, without having to go through an Fn layer. It's essentially a Tenkeyless without the function keys.
however non standard keys makes the board to have a fixed layout with no customization options,There’s no “standard” set of keycap shapes on Alps keyboards, because most of the interesting ones are from the 80s or early 90s. They almost all have various funny layouts, and many keycaps end up not being interchangeable.
What will the layout & case look like on the upcoming 60%?
The case would be minimalist -- as small as we can make it. The layout would be something like this...
(Attachment Link)
This gives you all the most important keys, without having to go through an Fn layer. It's essentially a Tenkeyless without the function keys.
You should have well grounded reasons for the design, however non standard keys makes the board to have a fixed layout with no customization options, the same that non mechanical keyboards are.
The main reasons some prefer MX based keyboards is precisely the choices for different keycaps. I am sure you know that, but for certain reason you are ignoring it. You should know your business better than us for sure.
I may have said this somewhere else, but IMHO your current 75% layout (laptop pro, mini pro etc) would be perfect for a FC660C/M style 60% board. Just get rid of the function row, move that function key from above the right arrow, switch the case design to a more minimal case, and it would be perfect. No more odd-sized keys to be concerned about.
Please make this.
Woo hoo, Pop Rocks! Thanks, Bunny! <3Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/DDD5czZ.jpg)
I may have said this somewhere else, but IMHO your current 75% layout (laptop pro, mini pro etc) would be perfect for a FC660C/M style 60% board. Just get rid of the function row, move that function key from above the right arrow, switch the case design to a more minimal case, and it would be perfect. No more odd-sized keys to be concerned about.
Please make this.
I can understand the attraction of this, but the FC660C/M has already done it, so I don't see much point in us doing it.
But the FC660 series does not have Matias switches
however non standard keys makes the board to have a fixed layout with no customization options,There’s no “standard” set of keycap shapes on Alps keyboards, because most of the interesting ones are from the 80s or early 90s. They almost all have various funny layouts, and many keycaps end up not being interchangeable.
Would you prefer a layout similar to the main section of an Apple M0115 or M0116, or similar to a Dell AT101, or one of the various Chicony or NTC keyboards, or one of the Northgate Omnikeys? These are all different from the shape that has come to be the accepted “standard” post–Windows 95 keyboard layout, and almost all different from each-other.
Where do you plan to source these “standard keys” from? Signature plastics only makes Alps keycaps that accept Cherry-style stabilizers, so those are going to be right out no matter what layout Matias chooses, unless you want to figure out how to 3d-print some specialized stabilizer inserts. Are you going to just stick with Tai Hao alps keycaps? Personally I’m not much of a fan.
The keycaps that Matias is planning are going to be hopefully better than most anything else you’d be able to get new today. Do you have some specific other set you have in mind? Otherwise, I don’t think your complaint has much meat to it.
While I really appreciate your comments, I'd better like to read the reasons behind the design logic Matias has. In regards with your comments, the motivation for the question is beyond current ALPS keycaps availability, and it mainly relates with the lack of standardization of caps and stabilizers for ALPS. I would like to know the reasoning for this new board just adding variety to a new ALPS board. Maybe you are right, and if someone wants ALPS she must know no customization options would be available ever.
While I really appreciate your comments, I'd better like to read the reasons behind the design logic Matias has. In regards with your comments, the motivation for the question is beyond current ALPS keycaps availability, and it mainly relates with the lack of standardization of caps and stabilizers for ALPS. I would like to know the reasoning for this new board just adding variety to a new ALPS board. Maybe you are right, and if someone wants ALPS she must know no customization options would be available ever.
What new board are you referring to? I believe jacobolus' statement is just aimed at keycaps.
Who else is making Alps keycaps besides Matias right now? Matias is making a board and the keycaps to customize it later. SP and Tai Hao *could* but SP has mold issues and Tai Hao has MOQ issues. And like jacobolus said, both of those companies have stabilizer issues. So Matias will sell the boards and then the caps to customize if I understand correctly. Seems like you should be able to customize later.
While I really appreciate your comments, I'd better like to read the reasons behind the design logic Matias has. In regards with your comments, the motivation for the question is beyond current ALPS keycaps availability, and it mainly relates with the lack of standardization of caps and stabilizers for ALPS. I would like to know the reasoning for this new board just adding variety to a new ALPS board. Maybe you are right, and if someone wants ALPS she must know no customization options would be available ever.
Mine is not. I quoted the new Matias 60% layout and asked why it should have half size keycaps instead of full 1u or larger sizes.
Matias, can you provide a drawing, or even just measurement reference, for those stabilizers holes for the switch plate? I'd like to be able to use your keycaps with my plate designs.
Matias, can you provide a drawing, or even just measurement reference, for those stabilizers holes for the switch plate? I'd like to be able to use your keycaps with my plate designs.
Yes, see below...
(Attachment Link)
Matias, can you provide a drawing, or even just measurement reference, for those stabilizers holes for the switch plate? I'd like to be able to use your keycaps with my plate designs.
Yes, see below...
(Attachment Link)
Awesome! But I think I'm missing a dimension...the horizontal dimension from switch centerline to stabilizer centerline.
While I really appreciate your comments, I'd better like to read the reasons behind the design logic Matias has. In regards with your comments, the motivation for the question is beyond current ALPS keycaps availability, and it mainly relates with the lack of standardization of caps and stabilizers for ALPS. I would like to know the reasoning for this new board just adding variety to a new ALPS board. Maybe you are right, and if someone wants ALPS she must know no customization options would be available ever.
Mine is not. I quoted the new Matias 60% layout and asked why it should have half size keycaps instead of full 1u or larger sizes.
I can understand your concern. Let me try to explain better...
The ALPS keycap market right now is chronically underserviced. With so few ALPS board makers, this is unlikely to change unless somebody steps up and fills the void. So, we will be filling that void ourselves -- but also going a few steps further...
Keycap tooling is extremely expensive, so you need to plan very carefully and design it for what your present (and future) needs are. Once you have it, you want to use it as much as possible. Otherwise, you've just spent a pile of money for nothing.
The 3/4u caps open up a whole new set of options for keyboard layouts that aren't possible with Cherry. The Ergo Pro is the first to use them, but we would not do keycap tooling for just one keyboard. The proposed 60% also uses them, and we will sell standalone caps as well.
We're investing big in tooling. It would be insane not to use it as much as possible, so you can bet that there will be lots of keycap options available once it's done.
Having said all that, for keys 1.75u and smaller, no stabilizers are required, so you can safely buy those from any current source.
Matias, can you provide a drawing, or even just measurement reference, for those stabilizers holes for the switch plate? I'd like to be able to use your keycaps with my plate designs.
Yes, see below...
(Attachment Link)
Awesome! But I think I'm missing a dimension...the horizontal dimension from switch centerline to stabilizer centerline.
Depends on the width of the cap...
28mm for 2u, 2.25u
36mm for 2.75u
Also note, this one doesn't have to be too precise. The little holes just have to be inside where the bent corner of the stabilizer wire goes. The little clips clip along the long side of the wire, so in general they could safely move 5mm or something. Just eyeball a maximum dimension based on the specific keycap size, and then pull in a bit from there.Ah, thanks again!Awesome! But I think I'm missing a dimension...the horizontal dimension from switch centerline to stabilizer centerline.Depends on the width of the cap...
28mm for 2u, 2.25u
36mm for 2.75u
Makes a lot of sense from an operational cost point of view. However, It is not known if keyboards with that size of caps may get attention from Cherry users that are comfortable with full size keys. If ALPS keyboards may get a share of current board market, unless current keyboard aficionados change from other switches to ALPS, the only other alternative may be to get the attention of rubber dome users, which is not an easy task, considering pricing braket gap.
Makes a lot of sense from an operational cost point of view. However, It is not known if keyboards with that size of caps may get attention from Cherry users that are comfortable with full size keys. If ALPS keyboards may get a share of current board market, unless current keyboard aficionados change from other switches to ALPS, the only other alternative may be to get the attention of rubber dome users, which is not an easy task, considering pricing braket gap.
You make good points...
We can either compete solely on the advantages of ALPS switches on boards that are otherwise exactly the same as Cherry, or we can offer something unique.
We've followed the latter strategy so far, but there are risks to both approaches. IMO the biggest risk is not getting noticed. If you have something that's too similar to the incumbent, it's easy to get overlooked. If you have something that's too crazy, too few people will buy it and you've wasted a lot of effort for nothing.
Quiet switches and superior Mac support have been our main differentiators so far, and things have worked out pretty well.
To that, we'll soon be adding the Ergo Pro and superior keycaps.
Our 60% keyboard design may fall into the "too crazy" category. I'm not sure yet. We'll know after the IC.
In any case, I certainly appreciate your feedback, and the feedback of others here on GH. We're doing our best to breathe life back into the ALPS market. It's a long game we're playing, and we're taking some risks -- but life without risks is a little boring.
Hey Ideus,however non standard keys makes the board to have a fixed layout with no customization options,There’s no “standard” set of keycap shapes on Alps keyboards, because most of the interesting ones are from the 80s or early 90s. They almost all have various funny layouts, and many keycaps end up not being interchangeable.
[...] Do you have some specific other set you have in mind? Otherwise, I don’t think your complaint has much meat to it.
While I really appreciate your comments, I'd better like to read the reasons behind the design logic Matias has. In regards with your comments, the motivation for the question is beyond current ALPS keycaps availability, and it mainly relates with the lack of standardization of caps and stabilizers for ALPS. I would like to know the reasoning for this new board just adding variety to a new ALPS board. Maybe you are right, and if someone wants ALPS she must know no customization options would be available ever.
Hey Ideus,however non standard keys makes the board to have a fixed layout with no customization options,There’s no “standard” set of keycap shapes on Alps keyboards, because most of the interesting ones are from the 80s or early 90s. They almost all have various funny layouts, and many keycaps end up not being interchangeable.
[...] Do you have some specific other set you have in mind? Otherwise, I don’t think your complaint has much meat to it.
While I really appreciate your comments, I'd better like to read the reasons behind the design logic Matias has. In regards with your comments, the motivation for the question is beyond current ALPS keycaps availability, and it mainly relates with the lack of standardization of caps and stabilizers for ALPS. I would like to know the reasoning for this new board just adding variety to a new ALPS board. Maybe you are right, and if someone wants ALPS she must know no customization options would be available ever.
Sorry, I didn’t mean for my comment to be quite so aggressive/dismissive sounding. Mainly, I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from, and what your goals are.
For instance, are you just worried that you’d purchase a keyboard and then not have as many aftermarket keycaps as you’d like? Or are you trying to use a specific set of old keycaps you already have? Or...
From my perspective it seems like any choice for a new Alps-like switch keyboard is valid, because there aren’t really any existing “standards” (beyond the shape of basic 1x1 keys), especially among keyboards still being made.
For stuff like spacebars, what I’d personally want to see Matias make is as wide a variety of sizes as they’re willing to, and in particular as many sizes in the 1.5–4 unit range as possible. I personally think spacebars bigger than about 3 units long are a waste of space, so I’ll be really happy once I can get hold of some of those 2.5x1.5 spacebars, and it sounds like maybe 2.75x1 as well. I’d also really like to see some spacebar sizes like 2.5x1, 2x1, 1.5x1, but I understand that every additional keycap shape is hugely expensive to make tooling for, and those might not have enough demand.
Among other keycap shapes, what I mostly want to see is: various small-ish keys like 1x1, 1.25x1, and 1.5x1, available in as many row profile shapes as possible. (I’d be overjoyed if there were spherical caps available, but several choices of cylindrical rows is great too.) I want to get a handful of each available shape, so I can figure out which ones I need to complete existing fun old sets of keycaps, so I can use them on new layouts.
Since I mainly want to make my own shaped keyboards, I don’t much care what layouts Matias offers for full keyboards or group-buy kits, except insofar as they use interesting keycap sizes that I can take advantage of.
Thank you for the sounding explanation. The 60% market may be the one where you may explore an intermediate strategy, with an offer that may attract the attention of some users. Based on the demand for small keyboards, and the fact that no one of them seems to be an actual market leader you may find a niche with good sales potential. Thank you for listening, and I really hope you hit a home run.
Ah, thanks again!Awesome! But I think I'm missing a dimension...the horizontal dimension from switch centerline to stabilizer centerline.Depends on the width of the cap...
28mm for 2u, 2.25u
36mm for 2.75u
Also note, this one doesn't have to be too precise. The little holes just have to be inside where the bent corner of the stabilizer wire goes. The little clips clip along the long side of the wire, so in general they could safely move 5mm or something. Just eyeball a maximum dimension based on the specific keycap size, and then pull in a bit from there.
We'll have everything up on the Matias webstore first. GH GB will be for custom legends or custom colours.
We'll have everything up on the Matias webstore first. GH GB will be for custom legends or custom colours.
Hi Matias,
Any chance for transparent or translucent keycaps?
It's stated earlier this thread that Matias is releasing the keycaps this year. However, there's no set dates since they're focusing on the ergo pro release first. ABS is coming "soon". The PBT caps were coming after August, most likely in Q4. Should also have a GH gb for special colors/translucent caps and a 60% board. Of course, I'm not a Matias rep so this is just my own understanding. The timing could still change.
Yes, this is essentially correct.
The ABS caps are already made and are being printed now. They will go on sale probably in a month or so. Blanks will also be available in both in black and white.
PBT will be available towards the end of the year.
It's stated earlier this thread that Matias is releasing the keycaps this year. However, there's no set dates since they're focusing on the ergo pro release first. ABS is coming "soon". The PBT caps were coming after August, most likely in Q4. Should also have a GH gb for special colors/translucent caps and a 60% board. Of course, I'm not a Matias rep so this is just my own understanding. The timing could still change.
Yes, this is essentially correct.
The ABS caps are already made and are being printed now. They will go on sale probably in a month or so. Blanks will also be available in both in black and white.
PBT will be available towards the end of the year.
It's stated earlier this thread that Matias is releasing the keycaps this year. However, there's no set dates since they're focusing on the ergo pro release first. ABS is coming "soon". The PBT caps were coming after August, most likely in Q4. Should also have a GH gb for special colors/translucent caps and a 60% board. Of course, I'm not a Matias rep so this is just my own understanding. The timing could still change.
Yes, this is essentially correct.
The ABS caps are already made and are being printed now. They will go on sale probably in a month or so. Blanks will also be available in both in black and white.
PBT will be available towards the end of the year.
How is this going?
It's stated earlier this thread that Matias is releasing the keycaps this year. However, there's no set dates since they're focusing on the ergo pro release first. ABS is coming "soon". The PBT caps were coming after August, most likely in Q4. Should also have a GH gb for special colors/translucent caps and a 60% board. Of course, I'm not a Matias rep so this is just my own understanding. The timing could still change.
Nice! cant wait(oh wait, I have to)!
Yes, this is essentially correct.
The ABS caps are already made and are being printed now. They will go on sale probably in a month or so. Blanks will also be available in both in black and white.
PBT will be available towards the end of the year.
How is this going?
Just got an update...
First keycap shipment arrives Oct 16. Will take a few days to clear Customs, so they'll definitely be available before the end of Oct.
What kind of keycaps? (material and printing type?)
We'll be selling ABS caps soon, laser etched.
We also have PBT tooling for some caps, with the rest coming over the next year.
SP has tooling for ABS doubleshots.
Any update on these keycaps? Still waiting.. KBParadise V60 with Matias is getting very lonely and growing restless.
Where can I find Matias keycaps? I can't find it on matias.ca.
I mean the ABS ones, not the PBT ones. I think Matias ABS keycaps has been released. I see them on The Keyboard Company's website but not on Matias website.Where can I find Matias keycaps? I can't find it on matias.ca.
I'd love to know myself. AFAIK, they still haven't been released.
I mean the ABS ones, not the PBT ones. I think Matias ABS keycaps has been released. I see them on The Keyboard Company's website but not on Matias website.
I mean the ABS ones, not the PBT ones. I think Matias ABS keycaps has been released. I see them on The Keyboard Company's website but not on Matias website.
I didn't even realize there were some on the Keyboard Company's site. Too bad they're in ISO/UK layout. I don't have any idea where *any* ANSI Matias keycaps are.
Thank you! I guess this mean I have to constantly keep an eye on Matias to know when PBT keycaps are comming.I mean the ABS ones, not the PBT ones. I think Matias ABS keycaps has been released. I see them on The Keyboard Company's website but not on Matias website.
I didn't even realize there were some on the Keyboard Company's site. Too bad they're in ISO/UK layout. I don't have any idea where *any* ANSI Matias keycaps are.
I ordered some spacebars directly by emailing them. As far as I know they only have blanks atm.
Info --> https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.msg1578799#msg1578799 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.msg1578799#msg1578799)
I ordered some spacebars directly by emailing them. As far as I know they only have blanks atm.Thank you! I guess this mean I have to constantly keep an eye on Matias to know when PBT keycaps are comming.
Info --> https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.msg1578799#msg1578799 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.msg1578799#msg1578799)
Is a full set of (thick?) PBT keycaps from Matias a thing that is actually going to happen? Does it depend on the outcome of the 60% group buy with the volume upgrades? What's the status? Timeline?I am also curious about this. Could Matias give an answer?
More options for keycaps is only going to increase demand for the switches.
Where can I find Matias keycaps? I can't find it on matias.ca.
Can confirm. I just ordered a full set of white with black legends this way last week, Steve was very helpful and the transaction went smoothly. The ordering process through their website is a little weird since they don't have caps listed in the store, but it worked and my keycaps are on their way.I mean the ABS ones, not the PBT ones. I think Matias ABS keycaps has been released. I see them on The Keyboard Company's website but not on Matias website.
I didn't even realize there were some on the Keyboard Company's site. Too bad they're in ISO/UK layout. I don't have any idea where *any* ANSI Matias keycaps are.
I ordered some spacebars directly by emailing them. As far as I know they only have blanks atm.
Info --> https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.msg1578799#msg1578799 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45483.msg1578799#msg1578799)
Does this mean the profile for the PBTs is not yet finalized? The reason I ask is that if you're getting DCS doubleshots the profile will already be slighty different to your lasered ABS caps, so you might as well have another different profile for the PBTs. I happen to think a lower profile with sharper edges, similar to GMK/Cherry or Leopold, would be really nice.
I love you Matias
Awesome! Can't wait to see those PBT caps! BTW, since Matias is using dye sub for legends, does it mean black caps will not have legends that have easily visible colors (like white)?
In that case I'm hoping for the following five options in pbt:
White on black laser/infill.
Black on black dyesub, barely visible but extremely badass-looking.
Blank black.
Black on white dyesub
Blank white.
And I think cor sure id get a set of the black-on-black.
Will you be producing the 'big-ass enter' or stabilizers for these?Seems highly unlikely; if you’re looking for replacement keycaps for an existing keyboard, note that there are about 6 different stabilizer setups for historical Alps big-ass enter keys, so even if there were to be some made, it’s very likely it wouldn’t fit your specific keyboard.
What about Dolch colors?
How am I not seeing this poll? Am I blind?
Indeed I am. Do polls not show on mobile (Tapatalk)?
I love you Matias
Indeed I am. Do polls not show on mobile (Tapatalk)?
I didn't see it on Tapatalk so I got out my laptop and it's right there at the top. So I guess no, they don't work on Tapatalk.
Thoughts:
I see "white on blue" and "white on red" as almost "ornamental" -- I can see people getting a WASD cluster, an Esc, or a Fn key with them, but not necessarily a whole board worth.
I saw the mention of Signature Plastics, but have you reached out to Tai Hao, our of curiosity? We know they did the doubleshots on a lot of classic ALPS boards. Looking at the PC Tactile Pro, only a few keys would require customization (Fn, possibly the 1x Windows key, the 1x numpad tab, the higher row Num Lock, and the media keys, possibly the space bar) from their standard offerings (as seen on, say, Focus and Northgate boards)
Thoughts:
I see "white on blue" and "white on red" as almost "ornamental" -- I can see people getting a WASD cluster, an Esc, or a Fn key with them, but not necessarily a whole board worth.
Thanks, if there are more opinions on this, I'd be interested to hear details. For some reason, the comment field on the form is not visible to me. Not sure what's happening.
I love you Matias
Amen.
What about Dolch colors?Mind.Blown. :eek:
I also had to throw a comment in there about a 6U spacebar for Infinity Hacker layouts.
Do note, folks, that with the keycaps we’re talking about here, the left shift and return caps (which need stabilizers) are not going to work on the current versions of the Infinity keyboard, because the keycap stabilizer inserts are incompatible. [The spacebar should be fine though, or all the unstabilized keys.]I also had to throw a comment in there about a 6U spacebar for Infinity Hacker layouts.I second this motion. That would be really great. I hope the infinity boards entice more folks to try Matias switches. The kit seems to encourage trying things out : building a first board, trying new layouts... Maybe the 6U would be part of their explorations. I'd buy em :thumb:
Thanks for the suggestions...
I'll see what I can do about Dolch. We're doing a 6.25u spacebar, but I assume that the Massdrop guys found a source for a 6u.
Thanks for the suggestions...
I'll see what I can do about Dolch. We're doing a 6.25u spacebar, but I assume that the Massdrop guys found a source for a 6u.
That's also a great option! I am also interested in seeing that!Thanks for the suggestions...
I'll see what I can do about Dolch. We're doing a 6.25u spacebar, but I assume that the Massdrop guys found a source for a 6u.
And classic two tone black on beige ;D
Is there any chance of double shot PBT?
Is there any chance of double shot PBT?
Probably not, as the tooling to do it is uncommon and expensive. This has to do with the way PBT shrinks as it cools. PBT shrinkage is much greater and less predictable than ABS so the molds need to have that margin built in. It also means the doubleshot legends tend to look a little goofy sometimes.
Are grey keycaps in consideration? Though I like black keycaps, but black keycaps are likely to come with laser-etched legends, which are susceptible to staining. I guess grey keycaps with dye sub legends is an alternative to this.
It seems you replaced the blank option with black legend on grey.Are grey keycaps in consideration? Though I like black keycaps, but black keycaps are likely to come with laser-etched legends, which are susceptible to staining. I guess grey keycaps with dye sub legends is an alternative to this.
Okay, I've added that option to the poll.
It seems you replaced the blank option with black legend on grey.
A combination of black on medium gray and black on light gray for modifiers & alphanumeric keys, respectively, can look pretty good. Black dyesub legends on various pastel colors also look nice. Nice thing about black on white is that it's relatively easy to dye white PBT to whatever color someone wants.
A combination of black on medium gray and black on light gray for modifiers & alphanumeric keys, respectively, can look pretty good. Black dyesub legends on various pastel colors also look nice. Nice thing about black on white is that it’s relatively easy to dye white PBT to whatever color someone wants.I agree! I really like this color! (picture from WASD)
Which color schemes look reasonable depends heavily on the typeface and legend design in my opinion.
I just find grey alpha-numeric with black modifiers also look great!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qHhUb.jpg)
Is there a known-to-be-reliable standard way for dyeing white caps?People used to use RIT dye, but they changed their formula a few years ago. From what I’ve read, iDye Poly is now the best option, but people have also had success with Dylon.
I just find grey alpha-numeric with black modifiers also look great!Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qHhUb.jpg)
Very nice!
Would probably look even better with a black case.
Is there a known-to-be-reliable standard way for dyeing white caps?People used to use RIT dye, but they changed their formula a few years ago. From what I�ve read, iDye Poly is now the best option, but people have also had success with Dylon.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35444
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56376
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63977
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64191
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=66084
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67491
I would pay through the nose for Ergo Pro-compatible Penumbra's:Show Image(http://cdn.keypuller.com/2014/07/penumbra-sa-detail-1280x896.jpg)
I wonder if Omron keycaps would be compatible with Matias switches?
Link to Omron keycaps http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/switch-cap-accessories/21944
I would pay through the nose for Ergo Pro-compatible Penumbra's:Show Image(http://cdn.keypuller.com/2014/07/penumbra-sa-detail-1280x896.jpg)
Hi Matias,
None of your keyboards feature a "standard" 1.25u bottom row. Do you plan to include these keys in your keycap offerings, to provide support for KBParadise, Ducky XM etc?
Mr. Matias (or anyone), do you know if this set (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/matias-keyset-us-white-pc-full.asp (http://this set)) would at least fit the alphanumeric keys on an Ergo Pro? I know the modifiers are trickier because of their irregular shapes...Show Image(http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_images/matias_keyset_us_white_pc_full_large.jpg)
Yes, the blank sets will include enough caps of each size to fit pretty much all keyboards available. We're arranging the sets now. I'll post a complete list tomorrow. If I miss any, let me know.
I love you Matias
Mr. Matias (or anyone), do you know if this set (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/matias-keyset-us-white-pc-full.asp (http://this set)) would at least fit the alphanumeric keys on an Ergo Pro? I know the modifiers are trickier because of their irregular shapes...Show Image(http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_images/matias_keyset_us_white_pc_full_large.jpg)
They'll fit *most* of the keys on your Ergo.
Profile should be a perfect match too.
Note that they're ABS and are exactly the same as what's already on there, except for the colour, and I don't think you'd be able to dye them because they're ABS, not PBT.
For replacement Alps keycaps right now that's by far the easiest option.
The only other realistic option for right now is to buy an old Alps keyboard on ebay and take the keycaps off it. There are some really nice caps on certain older boards, but the good ones tend to be spendy, so it might take a while to find a good deal. It's also a lot of work cross referencing ebay with deskthority to find out if a particular sale is of interest.
Yes, the blank sets will include enough caps of each size to fit pretty much all keyboards available. We're arranging the sets now. I'll post a complete list tomorrow. If I miss any, let me know.I love you Matias
Same goes for me!
Here is the list of keycaps we are planning to include in the set of Black or White Blanks available for purchase -- with qty listed in the first column, followed by keycap profile/size...TIL F-key-row and number-row are same profile on Alps. I count 2 extras. Seems legit.
40 R4_1
20 R3_1
22 R1_1
1 R2-3_LEnter_2x1.5Is this numpad? Or big ErgoPro keys? Just curious.
1 R2-3_2x1
2 R1_2.25TIL - Matias-Mini shift-keys are R1 profile.
Price seems ok for a big juicy "easy" kit with thick PBT.We’re currently talking about standard ABS keycaps as far as I know.
Standard ABS is already for sale (http://www.keyboardco.com/product/matias-keyset-blank-black-ansi-pc-full.asp). Seems a bit weird to rejig the sets now.Price seems ok for a big juicy "easy" kit with thick PBT.We’re currently talking about standard ABS keycaps as far as I know.
Matias: I highly recommend adding a 1.75u shift profile keycap.
This could come in handy for a custom build project I'm thinking about but not really planning yet.
Seems fair enough to provide easy support for the special layouts of your own keyboards when you don't know at this stage where most of the demand will be coming from.
I'm in favour of the "make it easy for everybody by selling them slightly more keycaps than they need no matter what their layout" approach. Easy is easy. Price seems ok for a big juicy "easy" kit with thick PBT. (NB you're effectively a monopoly here so I wouldn't begrudge you for gouging!)
Selling single/individual keys == amazing!
Awesome! It is possible to buy a 60% set for a lower price? Also is it possible to have a set of legended alpha-numeric keys with blank modifiers?
Matias: I highly recommend adding a 1.75u shift profile keycap.
Thanks. We only use that one for JIS boards, so I don't believe we have 1.75u in stock at the moment, but will check.This could come in handy for a custom build project I'm thinking about but not really planning yet.
Seems fair enough to provide easy support for the special layouts of your own keyboards when you don't know at this stage where most of the demand will be coming from.
I'm in favour of the "make it easy for everybody by selling them slightly more keycaps than they need no matter what their layout" approach. Easy is easy. Price seems ok for a big juicy "easy" kit with thick PBT. (NB you're effectively a monopoly here so I wouldn't begrudge you for gouging!)
Selling single/individual keys == amazing!
Since there are lots of layout variations with the different boards out there, and since there are no legends to worry about with a blank set, we thought it best to just support every layout with one blank set (if possible). Also, there's lots of manual labour that goes into assembling these keycap sets, so we're trying to automate things as much as possible, by covering most options with one kit.Awesome! It is possible to buy a 60% set for a lower price? Also is it possible to have a set of legended alpha-numeric keys with blank modifiers?
Our current thinking is to sell complete blank sets and complete printed sets. Would it be better to sell the alphas and mods as separate sets -- so you can mix & match colours if you like?
That would be great! Thank you!Awesome! It is possible to buy a 60% set for a lower price? Also is it possible to have a set of legended alpha-numeric keys with blank modifiers?
Our current thinking is to sell complete blank sets and complete printed sets. Would it be better to sell the alphas and mods as separate sets -- so you can mix & match colours if you like?
I'd also like it if there was a 1.75u shift. It's common on custom 60% boards, which hopefully will be more common with your switches now that caps will be produced.Matias: I highly recommend adding a 1.75u shift profile keycap.
Thanks. We only use that one for JIS boards, so I don't believe we have 1.75u in stock at the moment, but will check.
Okay, below is the revised list -- split into separate sets for Alphanumeric and Modifiers. Let me know if these work...
Blank Alphanumeric Keyset with Spacebars
26 R4_1
1 R4_1_LED
16 R3_1
12 R2_1
3 R2_1_Blind
15 R1_1
1 R1_2
1 Spacebar_7
1 Spacebar_6.25
1 Spacebar_5.5 (not yet available)
Blank Modifier Keyset
17 R4_1
2 R4_1_LED
1 R4_2
5 R3_1
2 R3_1.5
1 R2-3_LEnter_2x1.5
1 R2-3_2x1
4 R2_1
1 R2_1.75_LED
1 R2_2.25
7 R1_1
8 R1_1.25
4 R1_1.5
2 R1_1.75 (not yet available)
2 R1_2.25
1 R1_2.75
1 R1_2x1
Here are the proposed Alphanumeric Blank Set and Modifier Blank Set, in one image...
(Attachment Link)
(Layout link (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&p=DCS;&=&_x:1&c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&=&_x:0.5&c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0;&=&=&=&=&_x:0.5&c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&=&_x:0.5&c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0;&=&=&=&_x:0.5&c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&=&_x:0.5;&=&=;&@_y:0.5&c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&w:2;&=&_x:0.5;&=&=&=&_x:0.5;&=&=&=&=&_x:0.5;&=;&@_w:1.5;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&w:1.5;&=&_x:0.5;&=&=&=&_x:0.5&c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&h:2;&=&_x:0.5;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0;&=;&@_w:1.75&l:true;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&w:2.25;&=&_x:0.5;&=&=&=&_x:0.5&c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&_x:1.5&c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=;&@_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&w:2.25;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&w:2.75;&=&_x:1.5;&=&_x:1.5&c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&=&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&h:2;&=;&@_w:1.5;&=&=&_w:1.5;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40&p=DCS%20SPACE&w:7;&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&p=DCS&w:1.5;&=&=&_w:1.5;&=&_x:0.5;&=&=&=&_x:0.5&c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40&w:2;&=&=;&@_y:0.5&c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&w:1.25;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40;&=&_x:7.75&c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&w:2.25;&=&_w:1.75;&=&=&_x:0.75&w:1.25&h:2&w2:1.5&h2:1&x2:-0.25;&=;&@_w:1.25;&=&_w:1.25;&=&_w:1.25;&=&_c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40&p=DCS%20SPACE&w:6.25;&=&_c=#618a40&t=#eee2d0&p=DCS&w:1.25;&=&_w:1.25;&=&_w:1.25;&=&_w:1.25;&=;&@_w:1.75;&=&_x:2.25&c=#eee2d0&t=#618a40&p=DCS%20SPACE&w:5.5;&=))
Would the be in the color scheme pictured or is that just for illustrative purposes? Looks great!
There are almost half of the set that I will not use and I can't think of something to do with these caps.Time for a new project!
This division looks great. But I still find it a little wasteful to buy a full set for my 60% keyboard. There are almost half of the set that I will not use and I can't think of something to do with these caps.That's just how buying keycaps works. We all end up with leftover keys, esp. when its a group buy.
This division looks great. But I still find it a little wasteful to buy a full set for my 60% keyboard. There are almost half of the set that I will not use and I can't think of something to do with these caps.That's just how buying keycaps works. We all end up with leftover keys, esp. when its a group buy.
I understand. Hope my comment didn't sound like a complaint. I was just observing the facts of life.This division looks great. But I still find it a little wasteful to buy a full set for my 60% keyboard. There are almost half of the set that I will not use and I can't think of something to do with these caps.That's just how buying keycaps works. We all end up with leftover keys, esp. when its a group buy.
Yes, that's because keycap tooling is generally designed to do all the keys together -- including ones you don't need.
If you had separate tooling for each keycap size and profile, it would be insanely expensive.
This division looks great. But I still find it a little wasteful to buy a full set for my 60% keyboard. There are almost half of the set that I will not use and I can't think of something to do with these caps.That's just how buying keycaps works. We all end up with leftover keys, esp. when its a group buy.
Yes, that's because keycap tooling is generally designed to do all the keys together -- including ones you don't need.
If you had separate tooling for each keycap size and profile, it would be insanely expensive.
I understand. Hope my comment didn't sound like a complaint. I was just observing the facts of life.
One day we'll all have replicators. Then I can go up to it when I want a new cap, like, "T, grey, doubleshot."
I c what you did there. Also that would be awesome.I understand. Hope my comment didn't sound like a complaint. I was just observing the facts of life.This division looks great. But I still find it a little wasteful to buy a full set for my 60% keyboard. There are almost half of the set that I will not use and I can't think of something to do with these caps.That's just how buying keycaps works. We all end up with leftover keys, esp. when its a group buy.
Yes, that's because keycap tooling is generally designed to do all the keys together -- including ones you don't need.
If you had separate tooling for each keycap size and profile, it would be insanely expensive.
One day we'll all have replicators. Then I can go up to it when I want a new cap, like, "T, grey, doubleshot."
Yes, it would. Although I think even the Enterprise D's main computer would crash trying to make sense of the historical Alps stabilizer situation.I c what you did there. Also that would be awesome.I understand. Hope my comment didn't sound like a complaint. I was just observing the facts of life.This division looks great. But I still find it a little wasteful to buy a full set for my 60% keyboard. There are almost half of the set that I will not use and I can't think of something to do with these caps.That's just how buying keycaps works. We all end up with leftover keys, esp. when its a group buy.
Yes, that's because keycap tooling is generally designed to do all the keys together -- including ones you don't need.
If you had separate tooling for each keycap size and profile, it would be insanely expensive.
One day we'll all have replicators. Then I can go up to it when I want a new cap, like, "T, grey, doubleshot."
One day we'll all have replicators. Then I can go up to it when I want a new cap, like, "T, grey, doubleshot."
I c what you did there. Also that would be awesome.
Yes, it would. Although I think even the Enterprise D's main computer would crash trying to make sense of the historical Alps stabilizer situation.
Will these caps be compatible with infinity stabilizers?
Sad to know this. I am using a KBP V60 with Matias switches. In general it's a great keyboard but it's not programmable. I was hoping to get an infinity PCB to replace the current PCB.Will these caps be compatible with infinity stabilizers?
Only the Signature Plastics ones / doubleshots
I noticed that this set perfectly(including correct rows) fits in a 75% (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/24c62ca6f1eaa5db77db1a3f27204d77) and in a 40% (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/99e2c84da1427df58d6433092cd80325).
I imagine Matias switches could become more popular because of those two sizes becoming more popular and Cherry sets having problems with caps for them.
EDIT: fixed 40%(now 41% i guess)
Hi Matias. Any update on the keycaps?
Hi Matias. Any update on the keycaps?
Yes, I've been waiting this for quite a while O.O. Is it coming this year?
Any updates for the availability of PBT Blank Black keycap sets?
Thanks for the update! looking forward to seeing the PBT caps, I'm already using ABS ones at present, but they've gone shiny on me. :(
If you know or can talk about pricing would the price be similar to your ABS offerings?
What would I have to do to get you to make PBT keys for my two Laptop Pro keyboards with a Dvorak layout?
PBT Dvorak sets are definitely going to be available.
With Blank PBT Keycaps, they can be Any layout I want! :pThis is true. Some like legends, though — I especially appreciate the secondary option-key legends on Matias' Mac keys — and am really looking forward to a set that has them in the right place. I've been waiting for over ten years for a legitimate Matias-made set of keys with a DSK layout. PBT just makes it a bonus. Super stoked.
Matias, are there any plans to make PBT keycaps available for the Ergo Pro? And if so, would it be ANSI only or would you also cover UK ISO?
How are the legends printed? I am especially interested in black keycaps. Are they going to be black on black dye-sub or some other method? Also, will there be ctrl keycap that fits caps lock place?Matias, are there any plans to make PBT keycaps available for the Ergo Pro? And if so, would it be ANSI only or would you also cover UK ISO?
Yes, it's being done now. We'll have ANSI, ISO, and Dvorak. I'm spending most of this month in China to finalize the tooling.
I'm surprised more people aren't interested in backlit keycaps. That would be my first choice, followed by double-shot (although double-shot is the best way of making backlit keys, as opposed to painting over translucent keys). I would say make all the double-shot keycaps with translucent inserts; that way the caps can be used on both backlit and non-backlit boards.I think the main problem is there are so few ALPS boards with backlit.
I agree that most backlit keycaps suck - no matter how good the paint is, it will still wear out unlike double shot. But if Matias is going to be making double shot keycaps anyways, it makes sense to make them backlight compatible; whether users want to take advantage of that or not is their choice. Using a translucent material for the legends doesn't affect the quality.It may not affect the quality, but clear legends are not appealing. Most doubleshot sets use interesting colors, and clear is not an interesting color.
Haha I don't know how "grown up" I am in most ways, but I definitely have "grown up" tastes in keyboards. I've never had an appreciation for the "gamer" aesthetic in PC hardware, including all those multi coloured LEDs. But I think some simplewhite backlighting, like on most higher end laptops these days, would be quite useful. It's not uncommon for people to work on a computer without the lights on.
It may not affect the quality, but clear legends are not appealing. Most doubleshot sets use interesting colors, and clear is not an interesting color.Maybe I'm just boring, but I don't want "interesting" colours on my keyboard. I just want professional looking legends that won't wear out, and backlighting for when I'm working in the dark.
Yes, the tooling we're doing is for PBT blank/dyesub/laser and also for ABS blank/laser/backlit caps. I'm in China now. We hope to have it all done in another month or so.
Tai-Hao has double-shot PBT tooling. We've requested samples with transparent legends. I'll post photos once we've received them, along with photos of our own PBT keycaps.
I'll also be posting another update on the 60% keyboard soon. The 3D drawing is mostly done. :)
It may not affect the quality, but clear legends are not appealing. Most doubleshot sets use interesting colors, and clear is not an interesting color.Maybe I'm just boring, but I don't want "interesting" colours on my keyboard. I just want professional looking legends that won't wear out, and backlighting for when I'm working in the dark.
Yes, the tooling we're doing is for PBT blank/dyesub/laser and also for ABS blank/laser/backlit caps. I'm in China now. We hope to have it all done in another month or so.
Tai-Hao has double-shot PBT tooling. We've requested samples with transparent legends. I'll post photos once we've received them, along with photos of our own PBT keycaps.
I'll also be posting another update on the 60% keyboard soon. The 3D drawing is mostly done. :)
MoreIt may not affect the quality, but clear legends are not appealing. Most doubleshot sets use interesting colors, and clear is not an interesting color.Maybe I'm just boring, but I don't want "interesting" colours on my keyboard. I just want professional looking legends that won't wear out, and backlighting for when I'm working in the dark.
I'm curious, where did you find a backlit Alps keyboard that's made with the workaday professional in mind?
Yes, the tooling we're doing is for PBT blank/dyesub/laser and also for ABS blank/laser/backlit caps. I'm in China now. We hope to have it all done in another month or so.
Tai-Hao has double-shot PBT tooling. We've requested samples with transparent legends. I'll post photos once we've received them, along with photos of our own PBT keycaps.
I'll also be posting another update on the 60% keyboard soon. The 3D drawing is mostly done. :)
So does that mean I can get a couple PBT dyesub sets for Christmas? 2015? Sounds great!
Safe journey!
Are there going to be replacement keycaps for the ergo pro available?Are the laser etched legends susceptible to stain or are they still pure white?
PLEASE! I love this keyboard so ****ing much but my keycaps are getting really really shiny and feeling awkward
Are there going to be replacement keycaps for the ergo pro available?Are the laser etched legends susceptible to stain or are they still pure white?
PLEASE! I love this keyboard so ****ing much but my keycaps are getting really really shiny and feeling awkward
Are there going to be replacement keycaps for the ergo pro available?Are the laser etched legends susceptible to stain or are they still pure white?
PLEASE! I love this keyboard so ****ing much but my keycaps are getting really really shiny and feeling awkward
Hmm... That's kind of a problem. I like black keycaps but I really hate stained legends.
Great idea! If I dye the caps in different batches (I don't think I can find a large enough container to fit an entire set), is it likely that they end up in different shade?Hmm... That's kind of a problem. I like black keycaps but I really hate stained legends.
I plan on getting a BoW set and dyeing them black, so it's black legends on black caps. Unless Matias sell these black-on-black caps directly, that is.
Great idea! If I dye the caps in different batches (I don't think I can find a large enough container to fit an entire set), is it likely that they end up in different shade?Hmm... That's kind of a problem. I like black keycaps but I really hate stained legends.
I plan on getting a BoW set and dyeing them black, so it's black legends on black caps. Unless Matias sell these black-on-black caps directly, that is.
I use a Laptop Pro with my iPad, definitely looking forward to these!
Grabbed some of the doubleshot ABS Alps caps on Massdrop, and they're quite good, but I'd gladly trade them out for PBT Matias caps
I use a Laptop Pro with my iPad, definitely looking forward to these!
Grabbed some of the doubleshot ABS Alps caps on Massdrop, and they're quite good, but I'd gladly trade them out for PBT Matias caps
How's that working out for you? Since it's ABS, does it feel the same as the stock ones? Can't bring myself to get one from MD.
Hopefully this will not be like Unicomp's SSK. I really want PBT on my ALPS board.
Hopefully this will not be like Unicomp's SSK. I really want PBT on my ALPS board.
It's a little bit scary how quiet Matias has been about it since the trip to China. No news is good news... right...?
I think SP only makes think PBT. Also I don't seem to see SP doing ALPS PBT that is not in DSA profile.Hopefully this will not be like Unicomp's SSK. I really want PBT on my ALPS board.
It's a little bit scary how quiet Matias has been about it since the trip to China. No news is good news... right...?
I don't know why Matias has to do everything. There have already been two Alps keyset buys just that I know of. There's no reason we can't do a GB (maybe through SP?) for thick PBT Alps blanks.
I think SP only makes think PBT. Also I don't seem to see SP doing ALPS PBT that is not in DSA profile.Hopefully this will not be like Unicomp's SSK. I really want PBT on my ALPS board.
It's a little bit scary how quiet Matias has been about it since the trip to China. No news is good news... right...?
I don't know why Matias has to do everything. There have already been two Alps keyset buys just that I know of. There's no reason we can't do a GB (maybe through SP?) for thick PBT Alps blanks.
Sorry for the radio silence -- lots of interesting stuff happening! (and all taking longer than expected). Anyway, on with the update...
I'm happy to report that the keycap tooling is essentially done -- with only a few minor things left to fix.
We've done sample injections in both ABS and PBT. Both feel really great, and match up nicely with our previous caps -- so there's no issue mixing & matching new and old caps.
The main thing left to work out is how best to handle White legends on Black PBT. Dyesub can't do this, so we're working with some material vendors to try and solve it. It's the most common keycap colour, so it's really important that we find an acceptable solution.
We also received PBT doubleshot samples from Tai-Hao. They're very nice, but they only cover the standard 101 keyset. We're still waiting on the samples with transparent legends.
Let me know if there are any questions...
Sorry for the radio silence -- lots of interesting stuff happening! (and all taking longer than expected). Anyway, on with the update...Thanks for the update! I'm excited to see these. Is there going to be a black on black (HHKB style) set available by any chance?
I'm happy to report that the keycap tooling is essentially done -- with only a few minor things left to fix.
We've done sample injections in both ABS and PBT. Both feel really great, and match up nicely with our previous caps -- so there's no issue mixing & matching new and old caps.
The main thing left to work out is how best to handle White legends on Black PBT. Dyesub can't do this, so we're working with some material vendors to try and solve it. It's the most common keycap colour, so it's really important that we find an acceptable solution.
We also received PBT doubleshot samples from Tai-Hao. They're very nice, but they only cover the standard 101 keyset. We're still waiting on the samples with transparent legends.
Let me know if there are any questions...
Sorry that was a typo. I meant thin PBT.I think SP only makes think PBT. Also I don't seem to see SP doing ALPS PBT that is not in DSA profile.Hopefully this will not be like Unicomp's SSK. I really want PBT on my ALPS board.
It's a little bit scary how quiet Matias has been about it since the trip to China. No news is good news... right...?
I don't know why Matias has to do everything. There have already been two Alps keyset buys just that I know of. There's no reason we can't do a GB (maybe through SP?) for thick PBT Alps blanks.
We don't want thick PBT?
Not wanting DSA I understand.
Sorry for the radio silence -- lots of interesting stuff happening! (and all taking longer than expected). Anyway, on with the update...One way to have white on black dye-sub is to print a black legend mask on a white keycap and then cover the legend part and dye the entire keycap to black. I learn about this method from here https://www.etsy.com/listing/217761281/wasd-keycap-set-for-cherry-mx-switch?ref=shop_home_feat_3. Not sure if this is too time consuming for producing in mass quantity.
I'm happy to report that the keycap tooling is essentially done -- with only a few minor things left to fix.
We've done sample injections in both ABS and PBT. Both feel really great, and match up nicely with our previous caps -- so there's no issue mixing & matching new and old caps.
The main thing left to work out is how best to handle White legends on Black PBT. Dyesub can't do this, so we're working with some material vendors to try and solve it. It's the most common keycap colour, so it's really important that we find an acceptable solution.
We also received PBT doubleshot samples from Tai-Hao. They're very nice, but they only cover the standard 101 keyset. We're still waiting on the samples with transparent legends.
Let me know if there are any questions...
Thanks for the update! I'm excited to see these. Is there going to be a black on black (HHKB style) set available by any chance?
One way to have white on black dye-sub is to print a black legend mask on a white keycap and then cover the legend part and dye the entire keycap to black. I learn about this method from here https://www.etsy.com/listing/217761281/wasd-keycap-set-for-cherry-mx-switch?ref=shop_home_feat_3. Not sure if this is too time consuming for producing in mass quantity.
Blanks solve all these problems.
For the legend part, any plan to make caps lock keycap with Ctrl legend?
Awesome!! Love to see Ctrl at the right place.For the legend part, any plan to make caps lock keycap with Ctrl legend?
Yes, absolutely. The Ergo Pro already supports swappable Caps/Ctrl, and so will our 60% keyboard.
Sorry for the radio silence -- lots of interesting stuff happening! (and all taking longer than expected). Anyway, on with the update...
I'm happy to report that the keycap tooling is essentially done -- with only a few minor things left to fix.
We've done sample injections in both ABS and PBT. Both feel really great, and match up nicely with our previous caps -- so there's no issue mixing & matching new and old caps.
The main thing left to work out is how best to handle White legends on Black PBT. Dyesub can't do this, so we're working with some material vendors to try and solve it. It's the most common keycap colour, so it's really important that we find an acceptable solution.
We also received PBT doubleshot samples from Tai-Hao. They're very nice, but they only cover the standard 101 keyset. We're still waiting on the samples with transparent legends.
Let me know if there are any questions...
+1 for Black-on-Dark-Grey GB!Sorry for the radio silence -- lots of interesting stuff happening! (and all taking longer than expected). Anyway, on with the update...
I'm happy to report that the keycap tooling is essentially done -- with only a few minor things left to fix.
We've done sample injections in both ABS and PBT. Both feel really great, and match up nicely with our previous caps -- so there's no issue mixing & matching new and old caps.
The main thing left to work out is how best to handle White legends on Black PBT. Dyesub can't do this, so we're working with some material vendors to try and solve it. It's the most common keycap colour, so it's really important that we find an acceptable solution.
We also received PBT doubleshot samples from Tai-Hao. They're very nice, but they only cover the standard 101 keyset. We're still waiting on the samples with transparent legends.
Let me know if there are any questions...
Hi Matias,
If the only cause of delay is the WoB colourway, could you not just go to market with the other colourways sort of now-ish, and release the WoB's later when they're ready?
How about a cheeky little Black-on-Dark-Grey Group Buy, before the official release, while we're waiting?
How do those Tai-Hao PBT doubleshots sound? I tried their ABS doubleshots but didn't like the sound - it's higher pitched (relative to stock thin ABS) and makes my Click switches sound more like MX Blues - do the PBT's do the same thing?
+2! :thumb:+1 for Black-on-Dark-Grey GB!Sorry for the radio silence -- lots of interesting stuff happening! (and all taking longer than expected). Anyway, on with the update...
I'm happy to report that the keycap tooling is essentially done -- with only a few minor things left to fix.
We've done sample injections in both ABS and PBT. Both feel really great, and match up nicely with our previous caps -- so there's no issue mixing & matching new and old caps.
The main thing left to work out is how best to handle White legends on Black PBT. Dyesub can't do this, so we're working with some material vendors to try and solve it. It's the most common keycap colour, so it's really important that we find an acceptable solution.
We also received PBT doubleshot samples from Tai-Hao. They're very nice, but they only cover the standard 101 keyset. We're still waiting on the samples with transparent legends.
Let me know if there are any questions...
Hi Matias,
If the only cause of delay is the WoB colourway, could you not just go to market with the other colourways sort of now-ish, and release the WoB's later when they're ready?
How about a cheeky little Black-on-Dark-Grey Group Buy, before the official release, while we're waiting?
How do those Tai-Hao PBT doubleshots sound? I tried their ABS doubleshots but didn't like the sound - it's higher pitched (relative to stock thin ABS) and makes my Click switches sound more like MX Blues - do the PBT's do the same thing?
Awesome! Can't wait to see! :thumb:
Okay, good news...
Samples of the few remaining problematic keycaps arrived yesterday. I will check them tomorrow. If they are good, then the tooling is officially done. :)
Also, it looks like we now have laser-etching working for White on Black PBT. I'm waiting to receive samples.
ALPS revival!
Keycap tooling is officially DONE! :cool:
Still waiting on samples of the White laser on Black PBT. We won't be selling PBT caps until the legend printing process is worked out. Best guess is Feb/March. I'm booked for China mid-to-end of January.
Exciting things ahead...
Is dye-sub working?
Keycap tooling is officially DONE! :cool:
Still waiting on samples of the White laser on Black PBT. We won't be selling PBT caps until the legend printing process is worked out. Best guess is Feb/March. I'm booked for China mid-to-end of January.
Exciting things ahead...
Keycap tooling is officially DONE! :cool:
Still waiting on samples of the White laser on Black PBT. We won't be selling PBT caps until the legend printing process is worked out. Best guess is Feb/March. I'm booked for China mid-to-end of January.
Exciting things ahead...
ALPS revival!
Is dye-sub working?
This is great news! Thanks for all your hard work to make this happen, Matias.
So what about thick ABS? Is that happening? If so, would it use lasered legends for all colourways?
This is great news! Thanks for all your hard work to make this happen, Matias.
So what about thick ABS? Is that happening? If so, would it use lasered legends for all colourways?
We can do thick ABS and thick PBT. We can also do backlit caps.
ABS would be laser or UV printing.
So when shall we have the group buy up and running? :cool:
This is great news! Thanks for all your hard work to make this happen, Matias.
So what about thick ABS? Is that happening? If so, would it use lasered legends for all colourways?
We can do thick ABS and thick PBT. We can also do backlit caps.
ABS would be laser or UV printing.
Great! I assume you'll be selling both, but my preference for ABS would be for UV over laser+infill. The legends on my QuietPro and V80 became stained fairly quickly, and AFAIK there's no way to remove the stains.
Great! I assume you'll be selling both, but my preference for ABS would be for UV over laser+infill. The legends on my QuietPro and V80 became stained fairly quickly, and AFAIK there's no way to remove the stains.
Will retro bright also whiten the black keycap itself?
Great! I assume you'll be selling both, but my preference for ABS would be for UV over laser+infill. The legends on my QuietPro and V80 became stained fairly quickly, and AFAIK there's no way to remove the stains.
Have you tried "Retro-bright?" It's a DIY concoction of 3% - 5% Hydrogen Peroxide, Oxyclean and some corn starch, followed by short exposure to sunlight and some scrubbing.
Will retro bright also whiten the black keycap itself?
Great! I assume you'll be selling both, but my preference for ABS would be for UV over laser+infill. The legends on my QuietPro and V80 became stained fairly quickly, and AFAIK there's no way to remove the stains.
Have you tried "Retro-bright?" It's a DIY concoction of 3% - 5% Hydrogen Peroxide, Oxyclean and some corn starch, followed by short exposure to sunlight and some scrubbing.
Will retro bright also whiten the black keycap itself?
Keycap tooling is officially DONE! :cool:
So when shall we have the group buy up and running? :cool:Can't answer that until we have the legend printing worked out. Best guess is around March/April. We're gearing up for CES now and Chinese New Year wipes out most of February.
Is dye-sub working?Dye-sub is a solved problem.
Not sure how white the samples are, but IMO a little darker colors (like poker or type heaven keycaps) are more resistant to stain. Pure white legends are nice, but do not last long. (anyway I still don't prefer laser etch. I will go with dye-sub or blank PBT).
Okay, I've got the lasered PBT samples. Legends are still a little dark and not white enough, so we're going to keep working on it.
Will keep you posted...
any updates?
Im way to hyped
How about just some PBT replacements for the nonstandard keys on your existing boards? The ABS spacebars on my Ergo Pro shine so bad I can almost use them as a mirror.
How about just some PBT replacements for the nonstandard keys on your existing boards? The ABS spacebars on my Ergo Pro shine so bad I can almost use them as a mirror.
if I understood it correctly they will offer full replacement sets for the ergo pro.
Would love to get that officially confirmed tho!
QuoteOfficially, confirmed.
The tooling for PBT caps is done, but getting a White-on-Black legend printing method is proving a difficult nut to crack. I'm in China now. We're waiting on the next round of samples.
Some problems just need to be ploughed through...
I guess you will have to settle for doing double shots instead ;-) ;-) ;-)
Officially, confirmed.
The tooling for PBT caps is done, but getting a White-on-Black legend printing method is proving a difficult nut to crack. I'm in China now. We're waiting on the next round of samples.
Some problems just need to be ploughed through...
If the caps themselves are ready, why not release a few batches of the Blank PBT keycap sets
I second this!If the caps themselves are ready, why not release a few batches of the Blank PBT keycap sets
That is an excellent idea. I prefer blanks.
Great! :thumb:
Thanks for all the comments. I will address them in a separate post.
For this post, I want to pass along some good news...
We think we have a workable solution for Light-on-Dark PBT printing -- see below. This is our latest laser etching attempt. It's well within the acceptable zone IMO. There's still a little work to be done in terms of scratch resistance but colour-wise, it's very good.
We've also done backlit ABS caps which I've signed off on.
Thanks for all the comments. I will address them in a separate post.
For this post, I want to pass along some good news...
We think we have a workable solution for Light-on-Dark PBT printing -- see below. This is our latest laser etching attempt. It's well within the acceptable zone IMO. There's still a little work to be done in terms of scratch resistance but colour-wise, it's very good.
We've also done backlit ABS caps which I've signed off on.
(Attachment Link)
Thanks for all the comments. I will address them in a separate post.
For this post, I want to pass along some good news...
We think we have a workable solution for Light-on-Dark PBT printing -- see below. This is our latest laser etching attempt. It's well within the acceptable zone IMO. There's still a little work to be done in terms of scratch resistance but colour-wise, it's very good.
The color looks fine IMO, but I'm not a fan of the font.If it’s laser, then any design should be possible. That was clearly just a test.
The color looks fine IMO, but I'm not a fan of the font.Haha, same here. Refreshing every this page day. But I haven't decided whether to go with black on white or black on black. I think black caps match better with my black case, but black on white legend is more visible.
Also, I've been eagerly refreshing daily to look for the separate post announcing blank keycap sales/orders, but I think it's not posted yet? :-\Show Image(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsVeLPnMEzbNf7Ta0sPIZ1z-8a3jtU3tEEXUoa85JM2xs4Kqxr)
The color looks fine IMO, but I'm not a fan of the font.Haha, same here. Refreshing every this page day.
Also, I've been eagerly refreshing daily to look for the separate post announcing blank keycap sales/orders, but I think it's not posted yet? :-\Show Image(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsVeLPnMEzbNf7Ta0sPIZ1z-8a3jtU3tEEXUoa85JM2xs4Kqxr)
Btw, for the black on white set, is the entire set going to be white, or are the modifiers grey?
Looks nice. Off-white, but readable and classy.
Will you be doing other colours of infill, or just white on dark?
Awesome!! Stoked to see what's to come!!The color looks fine IMO, but I'm not a fan of the font.Haha, same here. Refreshing every this page day.
Also, I've been eagerly refreshing daily to look for the separate post announcing blank keycap sales/orders, but I think it's not posted yet? :-\Show Image(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsVeLPnMEzbNf7Ta0sPIZ1z-8a3jtU3tEEXUoa85JM2xs4Kqxr)
That's funny. I've been refreshing everyday to see if there were more questions. :)
Okay, here we go...Btw, for the black on white set, is the entire set going to be white, or are the modifiers grey?
We're going to have the modifiers separate from the 1u keysets. That way, you'll be able to mix and match colours.Looks nice. Off-white, but readable and classy.
Will you be doing other colours of infill, or just white on dark?
Yes, there will be different colours. We just focused on white-on-black because it's the most difficult to do (and the most popular). The other colours will be easy.
Also, as mentioned, the photo is just a test sample. We will NOT be using that hideous font. I don't know where they got it.
Let me know if there are any other questions...
The color looks fine IMO, but I'm not a fan of the font.Haha, same here. Refreshing every this page day.
Also, I've been eagerly refreshing daily to look for the separate post announcing blank keycap sales/orders, but I think it's not posted yet? :-\Show Image(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsVeLPnMEzbNf7Ta0sPIZ1z-8a3jtU3tEEXUoa85JM2xs4Kqxr)
That's funny. I've been refreshing everyday to see if there were more questions. :)
Okay, here we go...Btw, for the black on white set, is the entire set going to be white, or are the modifiers grey?
We're going to have the modifiers separate from the 1u keysets. That way, you'll be able to mix and match colours.Looks nice. Off-white, but readable and classy.
Will you be doing other colours of infill, or just white on dark?
Yes, there will be different colours. We just focused on white-on-black because it's the most difficult to do (and the most popular). The other colours will be easy.
Also, as mentioned, the photo is just a test sample. We will NOT be using that hideous font. I don't know where they got it.
Let me know if there are any other questions...
Let me know if there are any other questions...
We're going to have the modifiers separate from the 1u keysets. That way, you'll be able to mix and match colours.What colors are going to be available? Is there going to be more than black and white?
Thanks for all the comments. I will address them in a separate post.
For this post, I want to pass along some good news...
We think we have a workable solution for Light-on-Dark PBT printing -- see below. This is our latest laser etching attempt. It's well within the acceptable zone IMO. There's still a little work to be done in terms of scratch resistance but colour-wise, it's very good.
We've also done backlit ABS caps which I've signed off on.
(Attachment Link)
Thanks for all the comments. I will address them in a separate post.
For this post, I want to pass along some good news...
We think we have a workable solution for Light-on-Dark PBT printing -- see below. This is our latest laser etching attempt. It's well within the acceptable zone IMO. There's still a little work to be done in terms of scratch resistance but colour-wise, it's very good.
We've also done backlit ABS caps which I've signed off on.
(Attachment Link)
Wow, any chance of being able to order custom laser-printed PBT's?
Something like WASD's custom UV-printed ABS's
Any estimated shipping date?
Also FYI, we're designing a new stabilizer clip to make it easier to use ALPS caps with Cherry stabs, especially for use with Spacebars.
It's a Cherry stab clip that plugs into the square ALPS stab clip socket...
Also FYI, we're designing a new stabilizer clip to make it easier to use ALPS caps with Cherry stabs, especially for use with Spacebars.
It's a Cherry stab clip that plugs into the square ALPS stab clip socket...
Also FYI, we're designing a new stabilizer clip to make it easier to use ALPS caps with Cherry stabs, especially for use with Spacebars.
It's a Cherry stab clip that plugs into the square ALPS stab clip socket...
So this will allow the use of old "classic" Alps spacebars on newer Matias and KBP keyboards that use Cherry-style stabs for their spacebars, is that right?
Is this also a hint that your new PBT spacebars will have rectangular Alps-style stabilizer mounts?
Will black-on-dark-grey thick ABS (or PBT) be available from day one, once they're ready?
Once everything's done, we'll be able to support virtually any colour combo. Probably we'd do keycap GBs in collaboration with Massdrop.
Once everything's done, we'll be able to support virtually any colour combo. Probably we'd do keycap GBs in collaboration with Massdrop.
Don't forget to add blanks to the possibilities and I will be one of the happiest men on Earth (and probably one of the poorest too by the way 😛)
I can't wait !Once everything's done, we'll be able to support virtually any colour combo. Probably we'd do keycap GBs in collaboration with Massdrop.
Don't forget to add blanks to the possibilities and I will be one of the happiest men on Earth (and probably one of the poorest too by the way 😛)
Yes, blanks will be included of course. Blanks are easy.
Once everything's done, we'll be able to support virtually any colour combo. Probably we'd do keycap GBs in collaboration with Massdrop.
Don't forget to add blanks to the possibilities and I will be one of the happiest men on Earth (and probably one of the poorest too by the way 😛)
Yes, blanks will be included of course. Blanks are easy.
in collaboration with Massdrop.I guess it's time to rethink using Alps in my custom since both Tai-Hao and vintage sets are extremely rare here.
in collaboration with Massdrop.I guess it's time to rethink using Alps in my custom since both Tai-Hao and vintage sets are extremely rare here.
Also thank you for telling this now and not when you started, just so I could waste a lot of hype.
I guess it's time to rethink using Alps [...] Also thank you for telling this now and not when you started, just so I could waste a lot of hype.This is a pretty whiny, passive-aggressive kind of response.
My suggestion to Matias is to manufacture keycaps and build a keycap shop of their own, a keycap shop where non-standard keycaps and blanks can be bought individually, with the option to order custom keycaps too, for the hype part, just post keycap photos to GH/Reddit regularly, especially r/mk ¶ For example, come up with a unique color combo + layout every week, post it to every social channel you can find
...I'm not in love with their shipping rates to non-US locations...
Regarding Massdrop, their platform and large community of users already buying keycaps make them an easy way to start with keycap buys. Anyone here who wants to organize one is also free to.Seems legit to me !
We can certainly do small runs -- but the bigger the order, the lower the unit cost = the more viable the GB.
Great news !! Thanks !
Yes, it's been a while since the last update...
I'm in China right now. I think we're close to being done. We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test. Still can't believe it's taken this long. I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.
Anyway, fingers crossed for this week. I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them. Thanks again for your patience...
Yes, it's been a while since the last update...
I'm in China right now. I think we're close to being done. We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test. Still can't believe it's taken this long. I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.
Anyway, fingers crossed for this week. I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them. Thanks again for your patience...
You mention laser? I thought these were going to be dyesub? Or is a laser used in the dyesub process?
You mention laser? I thought these were going to be dyesub? Or is a laser used in the dyesub process?
Laser is for white-on-black, or similar. Dyesub can only do darker-onto-lighter, remember?
You mention laser? I thought these were going to be dyesub? Or is a laser used in the dyesub process?
Laser is for white-on-black, or similar. Dyesub can only do darker-onto-lighter, remember?
Not to sound disrespectful unless that lasering is front printed it sounds like a waste of money/time. The lasering on the ABS caps is garbage so to put lasered legends on top of nice PBT keys is like putting ketchup on a nice steak.
Not to sound disrespectful unless that lasering is front printed it sounds like a waste of money/time. The lasering on the ABS caps is garbage so to put lasered legends on top of nice PBT keys is like putting ketchup on a nice steak.Matias explained that white on black is their most popular color for keycaps, so they need to have a solution for it.
Not to sound disrespectful unless that lasering is front printed it sounds like a waste of money/time. The lasering on the ABS caps is garbage so to put lasered legends on top of nice PBT keys is like putting ketchup on a nice steak.Matias explained that white on black is their most popular color for keycaps, so they need to have a solution for it.
If you don’t care about white on black, then you can safely save your breath and ignore this whole part of the discussion.
Yes, it's been a while since the last update...
I'm in China right now. I think we're close to being done. We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test. Still can't believe it's taken this long. I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.
Anyway, fingers crossed for this week. I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them. Thanks again for your patience...
1) Considering blanks are the second most popular option in the poll, could you confirm it's planned to be produced?
Anyway, fingers crossed for this week. I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them. Thanks again for your patience...
Yes, it's been a while since the last update...
I'm in China right now. I think we're close to being done. We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test. Still can't believe it's taken this long. I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.
Anyway, fingers crossed for this week. I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them. Thanks again for your patience...
With the latest Planck Group buy on massdrop they were able to provide PBT keycaps for matias switches, will we ever get a chance to buy the caps just by themselves???? Not sure the numbers for how many of these were sold but I was slightly disappointed in the fact they didnt even come with homing keys :/.
Interesting. I did not notice SP has put it on sale on their website. I also find they are offering DCS alps, but not sure if that's ABS or PBT.With the latest Planck Group buy on massdrop they were able to provide PBT keycaps for matias switches, will we ever get a chance to buy the caps just by themselves???? Not sure the numbers for how many of these were sold but I was slightly disappointed in the fact they didnt even come with homing keys :/.
Those were Signature Plastics DSA caps, which you can usually get here: http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-alps-mount-1-space-pack-of-10/ altho currently out of stock, probably because of the recent Planck buy. They're a different, lower, profile than the caps Matias are working on.
All I want now is a set of blank ALPS caps. I don't care about legend anymore.
Yes, it's been a while since the last update...
I'm in China right now. I think we're close to being done. We're doing another test injection this week and then another laser test. Still can't believe it's taken this long. I can see why most manufacturers stick with just ABS.
Anyway, fingers crossed for this week. I'll post pictures of the samples when I have them. Thanks again for your patience...
Matias, since you said the PBT tooling was finished, I really hope you could start selling blank first. I am sure there are many people who want to buy blanks.Yes!
*crickets*
:(
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.msg2256322#msg2256322
Just an assumption but based on that email response it seems like the letter test shots we saw from Matias here might not have been up to par and they had to go back to the drawing board? I thought the keycap character process had basically been finalized since the spring. Looks like it's at least another 3 months out :(
Sigh. One year ago at this time, I was thinking I will get Alps PBT very soon.Any updates for us, Edgar?
Sigh. One year ago at this time, I was thinking I will get Alps PBT very soon.Any updates for us, Edgar?
Our experience selling normal ABS caps has been that most people buy blanks. I don't know if that will be the case with PBT. Would love to hear people's opinions on that.First of all, thanks for the update, Edgar!
Dvorak keycaps will definitely be offered.Oh frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! :D
Sorry this has taken a lot longer than it should have. An explanation is in order...Apology accepted :-)
our main factory's laser machine is not up to the task, so they are buying another one.How long do you expect that to take? And after that you have more testing to do?
We've designed and tooled up a hybrid clip (photos attached). These will fit onto any ALPS keycap and allow you to use Cherry-style mounts (with appropriate balance bar). I've posted photos of prototypes before, but these are now in production.Cool. So if I'm planning a custom hand-wired Alps-based monstrosity I should use Costar style stabs, so as to have the most flexibility in choice of keycaps.
We've already started transitioning to our own keycap tooling, and PBT will follow.Not sure I fully grok. Does this mean you're *already* making new ABS sets with the new thicker tooling? And keyboardco has these in stock when??!?!?
Our experience selling normal ABS caps has been that most people buy blanks. I don't know if that will be the case with PBT. Would love to hear people's opinions on that.I like legends.
Our experience selling normal ABS caps has been that most people buy blanks. I don't know if that will be the case with PBT. Would love to hear people's opinions on that.Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.
Just out of curiosity: have you ever considered POM caps?
Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.
I would love blank caps. One great thing about white blank caps is that they can be dyed, which means custom Alps keycap can become a real thing!
I would not purchase pad-printed PBT, but blanks or dye-sub caps(maybe too much to ask) are an insta-buy. Would be fun to pick a layout that isn't centered around the caps themselves.
Sorry this has taken a lot longer than it should have. An explanation is in order...
Apology accepted :-)
our main factory's laser machine is not up to the task, so they are buying another one.
How long do you expect that to take? And after that you have more testing to do?
We've designed and tooled up a hybrid clip (photos attached). These will fit onto any ALPS keycap and allow you to use Cherry-style mounts (with appropriate balance bar). I've posted photos of prototypes before, but these are now in production.
Cool. So if I'm planning a custom hand-wired Alps-based monstrosity I should use Costar style stabs, so as to have the most flexibility in choice of keycaps.
Does this also mean that for future Alps keyboards you'll be using exclusively the Cherry/Costar style stabs? Are you hoping to kill off the old Alps-style stabs?
We've already started transitioning to our own keycap tooling, and PBT will follow.
Not sure I fully grok. Does this mean you're *already* making new ABS sets with the new thicker tooling? And keyboardco has these in stock when??!?!?
Our experience selling normal ABS caps has been that most people buy blanks. I don't know if that will be the case with PBT. Would love to hear people's opinions on that.
I like legends.
Sounds great! I have seen long opposed of laser etech legends because their vulnerability to stain. If this is no longer a problem, I would really love to have white on black caps. For me, though black on black or blank looks more geeky, printed ones are still more practical.Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.
The blank PBT caps are just straight PBT (no UV).
Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.
Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.
The blank PBT caps are just straight PBT (no UV).
Sounds great! I have seen long opposed of laser etech legends because their vulnerability to stain. If this is no longer a problem, I would really love to have white on black caps. For me, though black on black or blank looks more geeky, printed ones are still more practical.
Will the UV layer change the texture and feel of PBT though?
With the UV layer, does the cap still feel dry? How much different is it from ABS? I am not very sure about the scratch resistant part. From what I have heard of, PBT is much more resilient to shining than ABS. Isn't keycap shine the result of wearing down the keycap? If PBT is more resilient to wearing down, why is it less resilient to scratch?Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.
Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.
The blank PBT caps are just straight PBT (no UV).
Sounds great! I have seen long opposed of laser etech legends because their vulnerability to stain. If this is no longer a problem, I would really love to have white on black caps. For me, though black on black or blank looks more geeky, printed ones are still more practical.
Will the UV layer change the texture and feel of PBT though?
Traditionally, PBT caps have always had a UV layer. PBT is highly resistant to sun damage (preserving its colour over time) but it is porous and prone to scratching/staining (hence the UV layer).
If you're using PBT blanks without UV, the porousness makes them feel really nice and dry. This porousness also makes White PBT more vulnerable to staining -- which of course can be an advantage, if your plan is to stain them or dye-sub them.
ABS is the flipside to PBT, in terms of strengths/weaknesses. ABS is highly resistant to scratching and staining, but is vulnerable to sun damage.
Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.
Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.
The blank PBT caps are just straight PBT (no UV).
Sounds great! I have seen long opposed of laser etech legends because their vulnerability to stain. If this is no longer a problem, I would really love to have white on black caps. For me, though black on black or blank looks more geeky, printed ones are still more practical.
Will the UV layer change the texture and feel of PBT though?
Traditionally, PBT caps have always had a UV layer. PBT is highly resistant to sun damage (preserving its colour over time) but it is porous and prone to scratching/staining (hence the UV layer).
If you're using PBT blanks without UV, the porousness makes them feel really nice and dry. This porousness also makes White PBT more vulnerable to staining -- which of course can be an advantage, if your plan is to stain them or dye-sub them.
ABS is the flipside to PBT, in terms of strengths/weaknesses. ABS is highly resistant to scratching and staining, but is vulnerable to sun damage.
With the UV layer, does the cap still feel dry? How much different is it from ABS? I am not very sure about the scratch resistant part. From what I have heard of, PBT is much more resilient to shining than ABS. Isn't keycap shine the result of wearing down the keycap? If PBT is more resilient to wearing down, why is it less resilient to scratch?
Our experience selling normal ABS caps has been that most people buy blanks. I don't know if that will be the case with PBT. Would love to hear people's opinions on that.
Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.
Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.
What are you doing to your keycaps that they become stained? Have you tried soaking them in fizzy denture cleaning solution?
I have been using a KBP V60-MTS as my daily driver for over a year now. There is no sign of staining on the white laser legends. There are a few dark patches of dirt or dust, but these are easily removed with soap and water and rubbing with a fine cloth.
What are you doing to your keycaps that they become stained? Have you tried soaking them in fizzy denture cleaning solution?Just regular typing. I have sweaty hands though. Legends on keys that are frequently used shows have an uneven stain that makes them appear lighter than white (especially compared to pure white legends on side of keycaps). It's not obvious in every light condition but kind of bothers me a bit. I have tried soap water, dish washing liquid, laundry detergent, denture tab and even ultrasonic cleaner but no luck.
I have been using a KBP V60-MTS as my daily driver for over a year now. There is no sign of staining on the white laser legends. There are a few dark patches of dirt or dust, but these are easily removed with soap and water and rubbing with a fine cloth.
The lasered caps on my Ducky 1008XM wore *horribly*. The whole board was sort of a fiasco quality-wise
I noticed you've just put up sets of blank ABS Planck keycaps for sale, is there a possibility of a PBT variant?
I'm hoping it wouldn't be too hard, since it's just a bunch of 1U caps with a 2U thrown in...
I noticed you've just put up sets of blank ABS Planck keycaps for sale, is there a possibility of a PBT variant?
I'm hoping it wouldn't be too hard, since it's just a bunch of 1U caps with a 2U thrown in...
Are the new caps going to have letter at lower left corner of the keycap like current Matias boards, or upper left like more common boards? I prefer upper left.
Any PBT update since December?
What keycap profiles will these caps have? I prefer Cherry more than the Filco / 'OEM' Profiles.
I am also excited about having some new sets of dyesub thick PBT caps for Alps.
Please think about supports such as 1.75u R_Shift, 1.5u R2 delete, and bottom row 1.5u Alt Ctrl modifiers, as well as various spacebar options, because these key cap sets are long awaited by both the new and the old Alps mounted switches enthusiasts.
Will definitely buy if you offer any RGBK / CYMK modifier sets, or RGBW / CYMW sets (Laser-etched to get the white PBT out again, like how EnjoyPBT do it).
Can you give us an idea of the pricing?
Will it be quicker for me to get them from Keyboardco here in the UK or direct from you in Canada?
Are thicker ABS keycaps in the pipeline too?
Is there any chance of a mod kit for the ergo pro?
What keycap profiles will these caps have? I prefer Cherry more than the Filco / 'OEM' Profiles.
They are our own design. Our aim was to make them look modern, while still maintaining the sculpted comfort of traditional caps.
Holy crap this is exciting news, I'd heard that something like this was in the pipeline ages ago, it's great to hear that it's coming to fruition.
On this topic, can you allude to which existing profile they would be closest to, just for our reference?
If they were close to DCS for example (or at least closer than the traditional Alps-fitment keycaps) then it would make it much easier to put together custom combinations of alphas and mods. I think that's something the custom Alps community is missing right now..
A few pages back you were talking about custom dye-subbing on the white PBT caps, possibly with distriburion via Massdrop. Is this still happening? Have you thought about pricing and MOQs for those?
Good news...
I'm in China now, and have signed off on the Black PBT caps. We are arranging the production schedule now.
We'll start with raw blanks in Black, and then do Black with White legends.
I'm waiting on White PBT samples next, but those shouldn't take long.
Anymore feedback anyone wants to provide, now is the time... :-)
A quick update...
I'm in China now. We're doing test samples of White PBT. It's looking pretty good so far....
(Attachment Link)
How do they feel? I know a lot of lasered caps will feel rough on the lasered surface.
Why not black on black dyesub?Show Image(https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/87UB_led1000_th0x0.jpg)
The BoW shown, is that dyesub or laser?
Detail, clarity, contrast looks lovely. I should ignore that slight misalignment, right?
Will the black legends on BoW caps be a darker black than that? It looks a little grey on my screen.
So, the next thing after BoW sign-off is a production run of blank black - is that right? So the first round of blanks could be only a couple months away?
Why not black on black dyesub?+1Show Image(https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/87UB_led1000_th0x0.jpg)
Why not black on black dyesub?+1Show Image(https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/87UB_led1000_th0x0.jpg)
The HHKB also took the black dyesub on asphalt road, but not the laser-printed one.
Will these new PBT caps use Alps or MX cruciform style stabilizers?
Why not black on black dyesub?+1Show Image(https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/87UB_led1000_th0x0.jpg)
The HHKB also took the black dyesub on asphalt road, but not the laser-printed one.
In fairness, that photo is actually Black on very dark Grey.
Are you not doing dye sub at all?
Are you not doing dye sub at all?
Yes, we're doing dye sub also.
Are you not doing dye sub at all?
Yes, we're doing dye sub also.
Are you just doing a standard set of keys, or something more akin to GMK sets?
I know you are building a little empire instead of just running around to earn some quick cash like many of the Groupbuys here.
But at this stage, can you give us a brief time estimation of when we can expect some nice final production PBT caps and some dye-sub, sitting and waiting to be purchased and shipped?
If you say late 2018, I will still wait of course - for the thick PBT dye-sub for Alps.
I know you are building a little empire instead of just running around to earn some quick cash like many of the Groupbuys here.
But at this stage, can you give us a brief time estimation of when we can expect some nice final production PBT caps and some dye-sub, sitting and waiting to be purchased and shipped?
If you say late 2018, I will still wait of course - for the thick PBT dye-sub for Alps.
Agreed, an estimated date would be really great. Hopefully it wont be late next year if you've already signed off on the black PBTs...
I know it's a long shot, but any chance of double-shot caps with transparent lettering?
For dye-sub, we've only started doing samples, so I'd say sometime next year. Of course, there's nothing to stop anyone from buying blanks and doing their own dye-sub GB before we do.
What profile are these? Would you do cherry profile?
For dye-sub, we've only started doing samples, so I'd say sometime next year. Of course, there's nothing to stop anyone from buying blanks and doing their own dye-sub GB before we do.
Then next year it is, I'm presuming it's during 2018 not 2028? Just extremely suspicious of any info coming from you in regards to any releases of actual PBT key-sets.
Having said that, we have the material on order already. We also have another manufacturer that will be selling a high-end mechanical keyboard with our switches and PBT keycaps. I expect they'll announce it formally early next year (probably at CES).
What profile are these? Would you do cherry profile?
No plans to do Cherry profile.
Ours are similar to OEM profile but thicker, and with better spacebars.
We're also considering doing a low profile keycap, but those are just at the testing stage at the moment.For dye-sub, we've only started doing samples, so I'd say sometime next year. Of course, there's nothing to stop anyone from buying blanks and doing their own dye-sub GB before we do.
Then next year it is, I'm presuming it's during 2018 not 2028? Just extremely suspicious of any info coming from you in regards to any releases of actual PBT key-sets.
Sorry, but this is how things are with manufacturing sometimes. New developments can take a long time to complete. This is mostly hidden to consumers, because most products aren't announced until they are completed.
Having said that, we have the material on order already. We also have another manufacturer that will be selling a high-end mechanical keyboard with our switches and PBT keycaps. I expect they'll announce it formally early next year (probably at CES).
I'm leaving for China on Friday. I expect there will be more updates from this trip.
We all need to see MORE of your key switches, I know they aren't complicated Alps but it's better than nothing or suffering with anymore Cherry-soulless switches 8) .
Besides Matias, you need to install all PBTs on all of your keyboards because what's on them now, is so lacklustre and boring it only helps to devalue your switch instead of making them feel and sound great when used.
Can you give any hints on who the manufacturer is that's going to be using your switches?
I know you are building a little empire instead of just running around to earn some quick cash like many of the Groupbuys here.
But at this stage, can you give us a brief time estimation of when we can expect some nice final production PBT caps and some dye-sub, sitting and waiting to be purchased and shipped?
If you say late 2018, I will still wait of course - for the thick PBT dye-sub for Alps.
Agreed, an estimated date would be really great. Hopefully it wont be late next year if you've already signed off on the black PBTs...
For thick PBT blanks or laser, certainly before the end of this year.
For dye-sub, we've only started doing samples, so I'd say sometime next year. Of course, there's nothing to stop anyone from buying blanks and doing their own dye-sub GB before we do.
Happy new year!
Hopefully we'll get some PBT soon, any updates?
...
Once White is in the can, we can mix White & Black PBT to get various shades of Gray. We'll probably do Light Gray and Dark Gray. That's enough to do plenty of interesting keyset combinations, including a Dolch set.
...
Once White is in the can, we can mix White & Black PBT to get various shades of Gray. We'll probably do Light Gray and Dark Gray. That's enough to do plenty of interesting keyset combinations, including a Dolch set.
Great news in the new year of 2018!
I'm looking forward to some Dye-Sub in White / Light Gray / Dark Gray in 2018.
I hope the white PBT is more pure white than beige. We can see that with the comparison between Classic Cherry caps vs the newer set, e.g. GMK "Muted", the yellowed beige tone is not as modern (or in my opinion not as attractive) as the pure white greyscale tone:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/7vM3wVz.png)
(GMK "Muted" at the bottom)
Now I finally need to get off my butt and hunt down a good TKL Alps keyboard to host these fine PBT caps. Sorry, Matias, but I can't do the SecurePro since I need standard positioning of editing modifiers to avoid going insane.
Maybe Massdrop can do another run of the KB Paradise V60 and V80 with PBT caps?
Can start working on classic beige set eventually (hopefully one day).Happy new year!
Hopefully we'll get some PBT soon, any updates?
Happy New Year!
Black PBT is in production now.
I'm getting the final White PBT samples at CES next week. I expect to be approving them (since the previous samples were already 80% good).
Once White is in the can, we can mix White & Black PBT to get various shades of Gray. We'll probably do Light Gray and Dark Gray. That's enough to do plenty of interesting keyset combinations, including a Dolch set.
What profile are these? Would you do cherry profile?
Ours are similar to OEM profile but thicker, and with better spacebars.
Hey Mathias, can you tell us are there any news regarding thick PBT keycaps?
He talks about the keycaps some here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60268.msg2712248#msg2712248
I'm guessing the new boards and the caps will be happening at the same time.
He talks about the keycaps some here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60268.msg2712248#msg2712248
I'm guessing the new boards and the caps will be happening at the same time.
Yes that's correct.
He talks about the keycaps some here:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60268.msg2712248#msg2712248
I'm guessing the new boards and the caps will be happening at the same time.
Yes that's correct.
Any update on this? :cool: would love some thick alps keycaps
Sorry for bumping, any updates on the keycaps? :cool:
@Matias, Hi, I have been using the Quiet Pro for a few months, mainly because I needed the Numpad for work.
Then I also game on this keyboard and before I know it, the WASD keys are smudged. Is there a way to buy replacement WASD keys?
Hi Matias,
Just checking in, any update on this project you can share? I'd love for these to see the light of day.
Stay safe!
Will the keyset contain R4 '| \ ' and R3 Backspace/Delete keycaps?
I know matias keyboards don't use these keys, but there are definitely a lot of enthusiasts who love unix/hhkb layouts.
Glad to hear it! ;D What are you considering for the black PBT printing? I find the black on black works pretty well on the HHKB for example.