Author Topic: [IC] Duck Black Bird Weight Insert - Decisions Made (Read 21166 times)

merlin64 · « **Reply #50 on:** Mon, 28 November 2016, 23:14:37 »

UPDATE

Prototype came in, and not only that, alveeno was generous with his time to meet up and allow me to test fit the prototype in his freshly built black bird. Thank you very much alveeno. He also notified me of another Seattle meetup happening possibly in January =). FYI, the prototype was made of scrap metal from the shop. So here goes

Fit:
The insert fit perfectly. It is to be expected as it is a CAD file from Duck.

Fastening:
From my meetup with alveeno, it seems like there were no additional screws provided. However, the correct screws would be the shorter ones. Perhaps alveeno can chime in about this. Regardless, the heads all matched just fine.

Weight:
The prototype material is steel, so should be similar in weight to the final products (stainless steel/brass). The prototype clocked in at around 13-14 oz (.36-.39) kg. Not very heavy I know. If weight really is an issue, the only options would probably be tungsten, silver, gold, lead, or depleted uranium. If people have the cash, I'm more than willing to craft this in those exotic materials lol.

Pictures:

Here's what it looks like inside the crevice

Here are the two screws mentioned. The smaller one is the correct one

This is what happens when you try to screw them in. Guess which one was the longer one

Side shot

The other side. I believe due to it being a prototype, its not as flat. also its not quite screwed in

smittysteve · « **Reply #51 on:** Mon, 28 November 2016, 23:39:00 »

Guys, this looks great!! Appreciate merlin and Alveeno doing so much leg work on this.

With the prototype in hand, when do you think we can kindly give you come coin to head for a production run?

merlin64 · « **Reply #52 on:** Mon, 28 November 2016, 23:43:42 »

I am open to receive coin at any time, and in any amount =)

Right now I'm deciding if I want the engraving done. I personally like the 2nd option the best...but I'm not vested in this as I do not own a black bird. I realize that the scale that gaiden had his design on is not quite accurate. I've asked him to re-do his design at his earliest convenience perhaps that will make me more open to engraving. I haven't heard very much regarding if people really want the engraving or not (it is more expensive).

gaiden · « **Reply #53 on:** Mon, 28 November 2016, 23:53:53 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Mon, 28 November 2016, 23:43:42

I am open to receive coin at any time, and in any amount =)

Right now I'm deciding if I want the engraving done. I personally like the 2nd option the best...but I'm not vested in this as I do not own a black bird. I realize that the scale that gaiden had his design on is not quite accurate. I've asked him to re-do his design at his earliest convenience perhaps that will make me more open to engraving. I haven't heard very much regarding if people really want the engraving or not (it is more expensive).

Thanks for the detailed update Merlin, as discussed earlier i will definitely get on it once i return from my trip this weekend.

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alveeno · « **Reply #54 on:** Mon, 28 November 2016, 23:55:31 »

Alright, I got home and checked, no extra screws from Duck so we will indeed have to find some screws.

smittysteve · « **Reply #55 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 00:05:37 »

Done and done. Coin headed your way. Old west style- in a drawstring bag.

And I would vote for engraved but will buy either way.

Waateva · « **Reply #56 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 08:47:46 »

I am probably in either way, but my order of preference would be:

1. Non-engraved SS
2. First engraved version SS (gaiden)
3. Second engraved version SS (seblove)

Shados · « **Reply #57 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 16:20:27 »

I'm interested, don't have a huge preference on the engraving front, depends on the cost difference.

Jokrik · « **Reply #58 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 16:33:02 »

I am totally in for any

Thx for the hard work

Jeu · « **Reply #59 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 16:55:20 »

How expensive-ish are we talking engraved vs non? I like the simple one over the actual bird. But a clean brass containing non engraved insert would look schmexy as well.

Mr_BeastQuake · « **Reply #60 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 17:01:44 »

I like the outlined lettering for engraving but that preference is largely dependent on cost of engraved vs non. Still interested in brass too!

merlin64 · « **Reply #61 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 17:21:55 »

So the Octagon V2 GB was a learning experience for both me and my manufacturer. We sold the blanks at cost for $40, and the engraved for $45. It's going to be more than that, now that we know what it takes for a mirror finish. Prices haven't been determined yet. I also didn't anticipate how much work it was going to be, my wife suggests I charge a small fee for my labor this time around. I'm unsure if I want to do that because I'd hate for someone to back out just because I wanted to earn a few bucks. Maybe I'll just do an option for donation that way I'm not pressuring anyone. But like to encourage donation, do something like a raffle. Something like "for everyone who donates $X, you get entered for a chance to win something cool. Don't know yet.

-musubi · « **Reply #62 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 19:24:07 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 17:21:55

So the Octagon V2 GB was a learning experience for both me and my manufacturer. We sold the blanks at cost for $40, and the engraved for $45. It's going to be more than that, now that we know what it takes for a mirror finish. Prices haven't been determined yet. I also didn't anticipate how much work it was going to be, my wife suggests I charge a small fee for my labor this time around. I'm unsure if I want to do that because I'd hate for someone to back out just because I wanted to earn a few bucks. Maybe I'll just do an option for donation that way I'm not pressuring anyone. But like to encourage donation, do something like a raffle. Something like "for everyone who donates $X, you get entered for a chance to win something cool. Don't know yet.

If I were you, I would just include the fee into the final price. If people are already spending extra for a piece of metal to put in their keyboard (come on, we all know that's as "extra"as it can get), then they can spend $5-$10 (maybe not too much though depending on how much it really costs in the end) more for a one time thing

. Just my two-cents haha. Plus organizing and shipping things is definitely not the most fun/easiest thing to do.

However since I do not have an Orion and won't be participating, I can't say too much. But as a participant in the Octagon weight buy, I would have gladly been accommodating.

Mr_BeastQuake · « **Reply #63 on:** Tue, 29 November 2016, 19:39:10 »

I mean, we buying you a yacht? I don't see anything wrong with compensation. If we are spending $XX dollars on a weight for a $400 keyboard I believe most of us can afford to say thank you with some cash. Especially since I would hope that you would continue creating these weights for future Duck boards.

kenshinjeff · « **Reply #64 on:** Wed, 30 November 2016, 22:55:18 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 17:21:55

So the Octagon V2 GB was a learning experience for both me and my manufacturer. We sold the blanks at cost for $40, and the engraved for $45. It's going to be more than that, now that we know what it takes for a mirror finish. Prices haven't been determined yet. I also didn't anticipate how much work it was going to be, my wife suggests I charge a small fee for my labor this time around. I'm unsure if I want to do that because I'd hate for someone to back out just because I wanted to earn a few bucks. Maybe I'll just do an option for donation that way I'm not pressuring anyone. But like to encourage donation, do something like a raffle. Something like "for everyone who donates $X, you get entered for a chance to win something cool. Don't know yet.

It is my opinion that your time is as valuable as the rest of ours. I wouldn't mind paying more. That being said, do you think it would be possible for this time's finishing be smoother? For the previous batch of Blackbird brass weights I felt that it was quite rough.

alveeno · « **Reply #65 on:** Thu, 01 December 2016, 01:59:58 »

Don't be afraid to charge a small fee as compensation for your time.

merlin64 · « **Reply #66 on:** Thu, 01 December 2016, 09:40:22 »

Quote from: kenshinjeff on Wed, 30 November 2016, 22:55:18

Quote from: merlin64 on Tue, 29 November 2016, 17:21:55
So the Octagon V2 GB was a learning experience for both me and my manufacturer. We sold the blanks at cost for $40, and the engraved for $45. It's going to be more than that, now that we know what it takes for a mirror finish. Prices haven't been determined yet. I also didn't anticipate how much work it was going to be, my wife suggests I charge a small fee for my labor this time around. I'm unsure if I want to do that because I'd hate for someone to back out just because I wanted to earn a few bucks. Maybe I'll just do an option for donation that way I'm not pressuring anyone. But like to encourage donation, do something like a raffle. Something like "for everyone who donates $X, you get entered for a chance to win something cool. Don't know yet.

It is my opinion that your time is as valuable as the rest of ours. I wouldn't mind paying more. That being said, do you think it would be possible for this time's finishing be smoother? For the previous batch of Blackbird brass weights I felt that it was quite rough.

The first round (Octagon V2) was a big learning experience for both me and my manufacturer. The SS plates were significantly nicer than the brass ones. We now know what to do to make this a great product.

merlin64 · « **Reply #67 on:** Thu, 01 December 2016, 11:55:36 »

For those of you PMing me and wondering why this isn't in GB and why you can't throw money at me yet..

1. I have asked Gaiden to redo his design as its not proportional to how the plate actually is. It looks really good the way he has it but I'm just not seeing it with reality. I'm actually highly leaning towards just doing blank plates.

2. I am also doing an IC/GB for the Duck Orion V2. I'd like to run both together and make just one form that people can sign up on. This also saves costs in materials if I can submit one large order. I didn't find anyone nearby for the Orion so I had to ship it out to E3E. It should arrive at his doorstep next week and he'll report back to me soon after. I'm not seeing as much interest in the Orion as I am with the Black Bird, so in reality I think the Orion buyers will see a majority of the cost savings of buying in bulk. Though I'm sure any news of an Orion V3 may radically change this.

Thank you for everyone's patience with this matter.

gaiden · « **Reply #68 on:** Thu, 01 December 2016, 12:02:31 »

I will get on the redesign as soon as possibly tomorrow. Replying while waiting for a flight to get home 😂

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Jeu · « **Reply #69 on:** Thu, 01 December 2016, 16:50:14 »

All is understandable Merlin! Sounds good. Something like this, cutting costs for you in production and also being compensated for your time and access that we would not have as easily otherwise is all extremely reasonable :nod:

I'd also propose a small engraving of a blackbird (animal or aircraft) outline just as a flair than a giant engraving. 2"x2" tops on a bottom off center edge.

wodan · « **Reply #70 on:** Thu, 01 December 2016, 23:59:01 »

I have asked aaron6301 to help us with a design proposal for the engraving. He has dropped some jaws over at the X60 thread with his design and was kind enough do make one for use blackbirds

Here's the weight design from aaron6301:

smittysteve · « **Reply #71 on:** Fri, 02 December 2016, 00:07:53 »

Wow- that's sick!! Thanks wodan and aaron6301. Love the X60 design too by the way.

merlin64 · « **Reply #72 on:** Fri, 02 December 2016, 08:29:41 »

Thanks guys, I've updated the first post to reflect this proposal. Now if only someone would go over to my Orion thread and make a proposal as well. lolz

merlin64 · « **Reply #73 on:** Fri, 02 December 2016, 16:17:20 »

Gaiden has updated his design to be more accurate to the weight dimension. Thanks Gaiden!!!

merlin64 · « **Reply #74 on:** Fri, 02 December 2016, 16:36:51 »

Hey guys, I put up a poll just so I can get some answers for things. Please fill out at your earliest convenience

https://goo.gl/forms/EvG2LSjJCKhlIkaz1

m1kehonch0 · « **Reply #75 on:** Fri, 02 December 2016, 18:00:48 »

I know I'm late to the party regarding this but:
1. I can get you a CAD file if you give me a week.
2. Can't we do an SR71 type design (Ive attached a good starting point)

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gaiden · « **Reply #76 on:** Fri, 02 December 2016, 19:27:27 »

Quote from: m1kehonch0 on Fri, 02 December 2016, 18:00:48

I know I'm late to the party regarding this but:
1. I can get you a CAD file if you give me a week.
2. Can't we do an SR71 type design (Ive attached a good starting point)

Show Image

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If someone can get some confirmation from the maker about what this keyboard was named after then i am for whatever that is :) i assumed it was named after the plane but there was no confirmation.

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merlin64 · « **Reply #77 on:** Sat, 03 December 2016, 11:42:09 »

I actually think that jet design is too busy.

Jeu · « **Reply #78 on:** Sat, 03 December 2016, 11:57:43 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Sat, 03 December 2016, 11:42:09

I actually think that jet design is too busy.

as is i think so too. If it was just the outline that could work, but I LOVE wodan's design. slick and reminiscent of space and aircraft sleekness to me at least.

merlin64 · « **Reply #79 on:** Sat, 03 December 2016, 12:36:26 »

Its funny, a few people have already mentioned tungsten as an additional material. It's about 2-3 times as dense as steel. I wonder how much that would even cost or if my manufacturer has the tools to properly cut it.

gaiden · « **Reply #80 on:** Sat, 03 December 2016, 12:41:42 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Sat, 03 December 2016, 12:36:26

Its funny, a few people have already mentioned tungsten as an additional material. It's about 2-3 times as dense as steel. I wonder how much that would even cost or if my manufacturer has the tools to properly cut it.

Shoot let's just do lead 😁

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smittysteve · « **Reply #81 on:** Sat, 03 December 2016, 12:44:14 »

As one of the mentioners, tungsten is so neat. There was a kickstarter I backed for a tungsten desk piece (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1014603694/forge-solid-denser-than-solid-uranium).

From notes along the way in that project, I think it's pretty tough to work well. Probably too much $ too, but man, that would make a tank of a Blackbird!!

brighenne · « **Reply #82 on:** Sat, 03 December 2016, 14:19:48 »

Tungsten crew checking in.

I know this is a pipe dream, haha.

Quote from: gaiden on Sat, 03 December 2016, 12:41:42

Quote from: merlin64 on Sat, 03 December 2016, 12:36:26
Its funny, a few people have already mentioned tungsten as an additional material. It's about 2-3 times as dense as steel. I wonder how much that would even cost or if my manufacturer has the tools to properly cut it.
Shoot let's just do lead

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Tungsten is significantly denser than lead!

gaiden · « **Reply #83 on:** Sat, 03 December 2016, 15:11:21 »

Quote from: brighenne on Sat, 03 December 2016, 14:19:48

Tungsten crew checking in.

I know this is a pipe dream, haha.

Quote from: gaiden on Sat, 03 December 2016, 12:41:42
Quote from: merlin64 on Sat, 03 December 2016, 12:36:26
Its funny, a few people have already mentioned tungsten as an additional material. It's about 2-3 times as dense as steel. I wonder how much that would even cost or if my manufacturer has the tools to properly cut it.
Shoot let's just do lead

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Tungsten is significantly denser than lead!

It was a joke, but I have no doubt tungsten would cost more if not a lot more

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merlin64 · « **Reply #84 on:** Sat, 03 December 2016, 18:43:25 »

Who put in plutonium??? hahahhaa!

If anyone really wants one made out of tungsten or some other uncommon material I'd be happy to make it happen if they got the funds to back it!

merlin64 · « **Reply #85 on:** Tue, 06 December 2016, 20:33:01 »

It would be about 28 oz. Based on my quick Google fu, the cost for material alone is about 60 USD.

gaiden · « **Reply #86 on:** Tue, 06 December 2016, 20:33:33 »

Ouch

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smittysteve · « **Reply #87 on:** Thu, 08 December 2016, 12:44:56 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Tue, 06 December 2016, 20:33:01

It would be about 28 oz. Based on my quick Google fu, the cost for material alone is about 60 USD.

Spendy... but since when isn't this delightful (%#*!ing) hobby black hole-ing our wallets??

What would machining and a little something, you know, for the effort (Caddyshack anyone...?) make this bad boy? 120?

More seriously, how is the interest level here and on the Orion? When might you be looking to move forward?

Thanks again- looking forward to this!

merlin64 · « **Reply #88 on:** Thu, 08 December 2016, 12:57:04 »

I'm waiting for E3E to receive my Orion plate and test fit. I plan to open the GB for both weights at the same time, so as to save money on the material buying.

Meanwhile I'm gathering info on weight engravings, and other administrative kind of stuff.

smittysteve · « **Reply #89 on:** Thu, 08 December 2016, 13:03:13 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Thu, 08 December 2016, 12:57:04

I'm waiting for E3E to receive my Orion plate and test fit. I plan to open the GB for both weights at the same time, so as to save money on the material buying.

Meanwhile I'm gathering info on weight engravings, and other administrative kind of stuff.

Awesome- you rock, merlin!

PerniciousPony · « **Reply #90 on:** Thu, 08 December 2016, 13:36:48 »

Tungsten is the dream, but probably far too expensive. I'd personally love a weight made of pure copper.

merlin64 · « **Reply #91 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 09:28:00 »

If people are willing to shell out the cash, I'm sure I can make some arrangements for one offs. Just be advised it won't be cheap. $150 is probably the low end for tungsten stuff. However because its tungsten, its resale value would probably be higher than the peasant grade brass and stainless steel inserts. LOL.

wodan · « **Reply #92 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 09:30:07 »

Can I get the plutonium then?

gaiden · « **Reply #93 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 10:00:24 »

Forget that i want a slab of sapphire ring me up please 😂

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merlin64 · « **Reply #94 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 10:02:55 »

Quote from: wodan on Tue, 13 December 2016, 09:30:07

Can I get the plutonium then?

LOL, I might die before I finish packing it haha.

PerniciousPony · « **Reply #95 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 15:37:15 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Tue, 13 December 2016, 09:28:00

If people are willing to shell out the cash, I'm sure I can make some arrangements for one offs. Just be advised it won't be cheap. $150 is probably the low end for tungsten stuff. However because its tungsten, its resale value would probably be higher than the peasant grade brass and stainless steel inserts. LOL.

Would the tungsten price go down at all with volume, would a one-off tungsten cost more than say a batch of 10 tungsten? I know the material cost is quite high with tungsten, so it wouldn't go down much if at all.

m1kehonch0 · « **Reply #96 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 18:21:39 »

Quote from: PerniciousPony on Tue, 13 December 2016, 15:37:15

Quote from: merlin64 on Tue, 13 December 2016, 09:28:00
If people are willing to shell out the cash, I'm sure I can make some arrangements for one offs. Just be advised it won't be cheap. $150 is probably the low end for tungsten stuff. However because its tungsten, its resale value would probably be higher than the peasant grade brass and stainless steel inserts. LOL.

Would the tungsten price go down at all with volume, would a one-off tungsten cost more than say a batch of 10 tungsten? I know the material cost is quite high with tungsten, so it wouldn't go down much if at all.

I'm guessing the cost factors for the tungsten are the material and shipping. If I'm not mistaken, machining it would probably cost more, too, as I think you need special inserts in your cutting heads to mill it in a machine.

Either way, if you do a tungsten one and can engrave it in a way to differentiate it from the others, put me down for one for sure.

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gaiden · « **Reply #97 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 18:27:36 »

Tungsten is very hard so the tooling cost might be higher as well but i would imagine the end result would be amazing

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Shados · « **Reply #98 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 18:32:44 »

If tungsten can be done for less than $200 or so I probably am interested. I'm already doing stupid expensive stuff, might as well continue unabated.

smittysteve · « **Reply #99 on:** Tue, 13 December 2016, 18:34:41 »

I knew I liked you guys for good reason. I like the way y'all think. Highly likely I'd be in for some W too.

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Author Topic: [IC] Duck Black Bird Weight Insert - Decisions Made (Read 21166 times)