Gmk really does satisfy everyone’s needs for quality and reliability... other competitors such like SP take too long because they don’t have the establishments for it. There is only one way for gmk sets to diminish, if pbt set makers like enjoypbt find a way to incorporate more colors into the sets.This is not a matter of manufacturer, but keycap profiles. Everyone wants to run their sets in Cherry ABS for some reason, and there are plenty of great profiles out there not being utilized. Everything does NOT need to be cherry profile, or even doubleshot ABS. Variety is good.
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who caresGood to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.
just don't buy what you don't want
Ne nice avail?who caresGood to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.
just don't buy what you don't want
who caresGood to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.
just don't buy what you don't want
'Tis but a mere observation, dear sir.Show Image(https://images.wagwalkingweb.com/media/articles/dog/salt-poisoning/salt-poisoning.jpg)
Bruh... SA Leviathan, SA Bliss, Ghost might be DCS, DSA Scientific.
Calm down. If it ain't for you don't buy.
If you want to see something a different profile y'all can design it.
That goes without saying.Bruh... SA Leviathan, SA Bliss, Ghost might be DCS, DSA Scientific.
Calm down. If it ain't for you don't buy.
If you want to see something a different profile y'all can design it.
Ne MT3 Serika?
That's weird, I don't see any ICs from you in any of these other profiles.Clearly you see no ICs from me because it should come as no great surprise that not everyone should create an IC. Many of these are pretty half baked, or barely there at all.
I don't think it's that people are unaware, it's that gmk is what's most popular right now. People need to get enough support to run the set they design, and cherry generates the numbers.
For the love of God, why is there so many GMK ICs and GBs going on this year? Are you people even remotely aware that other profiles DO, in fact, exist? It's okay to have some variety. >:(
Perhaps I'm overstating it, but it feels like there's another 6 ICs every week.
I did think it funny that there are so many.Ha, I remember that. That was pretty good.
I thought there were too many two years, which is why I created this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90505.msg2455952#msg2455952
You are overstating it. I can never have too many GMK sets.Sure you can. Have you at least given thought to trying other profiles?
Gmk really does satisfy everyone’s needs for quality and reliability... other competitors such like SP take too long because they don’t have the establishments for it. There is only one way for gmk sets to diminish, if pbt set makers like enjoypbt find a way to incorporate more colors into the sets.This is not a matter of manufacturer, but keycap profiles. Everyone wants to run their sets in Cherry ABS for some reason, and there are plenty of great profiles out there not being utilized. Everything does NOT need to be cherry profile, or even doubleshot ABS. Variety is good.
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People generally seem to want some combination of the following, in no particular order:
- Bright color options, including the ability to do light-on-dark
- Crisp clean legends
- Durability to scuffs
- Not too tall, both for aesthetic reasons and for typing comfort (low wobble, don't need to hold hand way up high over the board or use a tall wrist rest)
- Nice wide typing surface with relatively small gaps
- Some curvature in the tops (i.e. not flat tops)
- Sculpted profile
- That classic Cherry look
- Thick plastic for deeper sound and smoother/softer feel
- Reliable manufacturing with good QC
- Easy to get in touch with and work with (as a Westerner)
GMK ticks all of those boxes. All other keycaps fail in at least one or two categories.
NPKC and WinMix/KPRepublic Cherry profile is less "premium", has ugly modifier legends, and the latter has serious QC problems. Also it's PBT.
Tai-Hao OEM is fine quality but people just don't like typing on OEM, and has poor compatibility. They also don't run custom color GBs to my knowledge.
NPKC PBT OEM has great compatibility but it's still OEM. Additionally has a "rough" texture that lots of people don't like, and doesn't feel premium. Personally I think OEM is underrated for its typing experience but it also has a stigma that will be hard to get over.
Tai-Hao Cubic is like SA in that it's tall and chunky and not super comfortable to type on, also it's unbelievably loud and clacky due to the shape of the keycaps, and has not-great compatibiilty. And like their OEM, they don't do custom GBs, and the existing colorway (apart from Concrete) are frankly wack. Unlike SA it's not really beautiful either. Cubic is nobody's favorite.
DSA is making somewhat of a comeback, with Milkshake and now Scientific. This is deserved. DSA is a good profile, especially as mid-angle boards (4-7 degrees) are starting to gain popularity.
SA, whether SP or Maxkey, doesn't have the elite status it once had, but it still has its diehard fans. The common sentiment is "nice to look at and listen to (except the spacebar), not comfortable to type on".
People like KAT, MT3, EPBT Cherry profile, and MDA, but there's only so much you can do aesthetically with PBT. Novelpro is going to be another PBT player, more of an MT3 competitor than anything, and it's still a long way off at any rate. Also new KAT sets are basically unavailable due to issues at Keyreative and ZFrontier. EPBT is getting more popularity as the quality continues to rise (thanks for your hard work Gok!). MDA feels nice but I think it looks kinda weird and that turns people off. XDA is polarizing, either you love it or you hate it; it lacks mass appeal. MT3 is the same way, albeit with a bit of additional respect for its vintage aesthetic.
JTK keycaps don't feel or sound as nice as GMK for some reason, and the wonky legend issues still aren't fixed.
MT3 ABS has weird/bad font and the first set still hasn't shipped.
So what's left? Nothing.
Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.
I think you just thoroughly explained why everyone is going GMK.People generally seem to want some combination of the following, in no particular order:
- Bright color options, including the ability to do light-on-dark
- Crisp clean legends
- Durability to scuffs
- Not too tall, both for aesthetic reasons and for typing comfort (low wobble, don't need to hold hand way up high over the board or use a tall wrist rest)
- Nice wide typing surface with relatively small gaps
- Some curvature in the tops (i.e. not flat tops)
- Sculpted profile
- That classic Cherry look
- Thick plastic for deeper sound and smoother/softer feel
- Reliable manufacturing with good QC
- Easy to get in touch with and work with (as a Westerner)
GMK ticks all of those boxes. All other keycaps fail in at least one or two categories.
NPKC and WinMix/KPRepublic Cherry profile is less "premium", has ugly modifier legends, and the latter has serious QC problems. Also it's PBT.
Tai-Hao OEM is fine quality but people just don't like typing on OEM, and has poor compatibility. They also don't run custom color GBs to my knowledge.
NPKC PBT OEM has great compatibility but it's still OEM. Additionally has a "rough" texture that lots of people don't like, and doesn't feel premium. Personally I think OEM is underrated for its typing experience but it also has a stigma that will be hard to get over.
Tai-Hao Cubic is like SA in that it's tall and chunky and not super comfortable to type on, also it's unbelievably loud and clacky due to the shape of the keycaps, and has not-great compatibiilty. And like their OEM, they don't do custom GBs, and the existing colorway (apart from Concrete) are frankly wack. Unlike SA it's not really beautiful either. Cubic is nobody's favorite.
DSA is making somewhat of a comeback, with Milkshake and now Scientific. This is deserved. DSA is a good profile, especially as mid-angle boards (4-7 degrees) are starting to gain popularity.
SA, whether SP or Maxkey, doesn't have the elite status it once had, but it still has its diehard fans. The common sentiment is "nice to look at and listen to (except the spacebar), not comfortable to type on".
People like KAT, MT3, EPBT Cherry profile, and MDA, but there's only so much you can do aesthetically with PBT. Novelpro is going to be another PBT player, more of an MT3 competitor than anything, and it's still a long way off at any rate. Also new KAT sets are basically unavailable due to issues at Keyreative and ZFrontier. EPBT is getting more popularity as the quality continues to rise (thanks for your hard work Gok!). MDA feels nice but I think it looks kinda weird and that turns people off. XDA is polarizing, either you love it or you hate it; it lacks mass appeal. MT3 is the same way, albeit with a bit of additional respect for its vintage aesthetic.
JTK keycaps don't feel or sound as nice as GMK for some reason, and the wonky legend issues still aren't fixed.
MT3 ABS has weird/bad font and the first set still hasn't shipped.
So what's left? Nothing.
Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.
As far as I know, SP has stated they have no intentions on bringing back thick DCS, as our relatively small demand (compared to most of their partners) is very low, and it doesn't really provide any benefit for them. I'd be surprised if DSS came out thin, considering it's relation to the SA profile. I believe some people have found test caps in grab bags from them too, and they look similar to SA in thickness, which IIRC is about 1.6mm
SA Probably won't get a whole lot of attention due to SP still having a fairly lengthy backlog, and Maxkey quality still being pretty subpar. To my knowledge, SP has not been running very many ABS or PBT DSA sets as of late, so I can see that being a potentially good option. Keyreative has effectively ceased making DSA sets due to QC issues with the cap provider, and their KAT/KAM profiles future seems uncertain, as they still haven't delivered on KAT Starry Night, thought it was supposed to ship a month or two ago.
Certainly, MT3 has it's issues in ABS with MD insisting on going with a SA like font, which is honestly too large. The PBT sets have had their legending issues sorted out from what I can see with my Dev/TTY R2 caps, so that's a possibility, although limited by having to be run through MD, on their time schedule, if at all.
I've always been a little surprised at how Polarizing XDA is, since it's very similar to DSA, just with a wider top. Most every set I've seen done in the profile has turned out excellently, although it is limited to just PBT, and I don't know of any reverse dyesub sets existing.
MDA does look weird, although nice to type on, I agree. Pretty understandable why it's failed to garner real appeal in the community.
ADA exists, although I am unaware if the profile is open to the community or not, and it has only so far appeared with one set, and only as laser infill.
Novelpro remains a hopeful contender for me, but that's going to have to wait on real results, and it's still about a year off for samples, IIRC.
As for HuB? I see no chance of it succeeding as long as the project is being headed by it's rather... divisive creator.
OEM? No comment.
Really this mostly stems from my frustration over a lack of spherical profile sets. There have been a couple, but mostly in colorways I find pretty unappealing. and when they do run, they seem to almost always be DSA or XDA PBT. I can't even remember the last time I saw an ABS DSA keyset ran. I really hope that KAT is actually able to get somewhere, as that's what I see as having the best chance at reducing this slew of GMK ICs. While it's PBT and not ABS, Keyreative DOES offer reverse and multicolor dyesubbing, and it's turned out very well in the past. This would certainly help improve the color options as opposed to standard dyesubbing. in addition, it's extremely thick, at about 1.7mm, making it even thicker than Cherry profile. It's also supposed to have an extremely smooth finish, and a sculpt similar to Cherry, but with spherical tops.
I don't know though, seeing the same profile over and over starts to make everything feel samey.
You are overstating it. I can never have too many GMK sets.Sure you can. Have you at least given thought to trying other profiles?
You are overstating it. I can never have too many GMK sets.Sure you can. Have you at least given thought to trying other profiles?
Printed Keycaps are for Scrubs..
Tru Keeb-warriors use Blanks... ANNNND ERGODOX..
I personally find it irritating that the vast majority, if not the entirety, of SA and DSA GBs of late are sculpted, when the A means that all rows have the same profile.
Printed Keycaps are for Scrubs..
Tru Keeb-warriors use Blanks... ANNNND ERGODOX..
1) Post GMK IC with some free renders
2) Change your Geekhack avatar to promote said GMK IC
3) ? ? ?
4) You are now a "Product Designer"
Printed Keycaps are for Scrubs..
Tru Keeb-warriors use Blanks... ANNNND ERGODOX..
I stand corrected.I personally find it irritating that the vast majority, if not the entirety, of SA and DSA GBs of late are sculpted, when the A means that all rows have the same profile.
DSA keycaps are all the same height (all rows have the same profile) they are not sculpted.
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'Tis but a mere observation, dear sir.Show Image(https://images.wagwalkingweb.com/media/articles/dog/salt-poisoning/salt-poisoning.jpg)
GMK Enough is ENOUGH keyset when?
Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.
GMK Enough is ENOUGH keyset when?
I think they should do more group buys in G20 profile.
Many of you are wondering what happened to the G20 keysets for Semiotic and Stealth. G20 was an experiment. We wanted to test market acceptance of a fairly unique shape and profile using some prototype tooling. The results were very positive and we are now in the process of designing and building new G20 production tooling. We will continue to run G20 blanks on the prototype tooling but, due to the cosmetic challenges during printing, we will not be sublimating keysets from this prototype tooling. I'm hesitant to say when the new tooling will be production ready. Our track record for release of new tooling (SA-P, DSS) has been less than stellar, but we are hoping to have pre-production sets available by the summer of 2019.Quote
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: thick DCS.
The really old Wyse terminal keycaps were a thick ABS doubleshot. It's a fun vintage profile that's sculpted kind of like OEM or MT3 are.
Except the bottom row is a bit of a disaster, because few want to type on an angled spacebar like that. So it would have to ship with a conventional spacebar option.
The legend quality of the Wyse terminal keycaps was spectacular. Better than Cherry. I'm typing on them right now. Nice Gorton Modified font, extremely crisp and high-contrast (if desired), even 30 years later. And they sound better than Cherry.
So, to meet your criteria of thick, great legends, good sounding, vintage appeal and Western manufacturer, I'm kind of surprised they haven't revived thick DCS. I doubt SP has the molds anymore, but they do have the design and license, presumably. And the credibility. Just the bottom row would have to be altered a bit, or optional Cherry spacebar. Again, I'm doing it right now.
(Basically, I am agreeing with you strongly here. They need to bring back Comptec DCS. There's kind of a lack-of-vision at SP right now. 'Gee, GMK is raking in the money with 500,000 different custom sets backlogged for years. Do we have any kind of equivalent vintage low-profile thick ABS keycap that people could make colourful designs in? Hmm, I guess not.')
That’s a valid point tho. If you don’t plan to buy those GMK sets, why do you care?who caresGood to know I can always count on you to add nothing to the conversation.
just don't buy what you don't want
Yes, exactly. Thick DCS has a positive reputation among those who know it in the enthusiast community. It would have its advocates on-line.
Plus, it's extremely vintage and retro. We're talking Comptec, which is Pre-SP. And Deskthority loves the Wyse boards, if their Wiki is any indication.
It's an Ur-Keycap.
Imagine making SoWaRe on thick DCS. It could be one of their first new sets. And with way more cred and appeal than GMK SoWaRe.
Also, yes, Cherry-profile spacebar does work well together with DCS bottom row, as I am doing it right now. It could be an option you select at purchase: Cherry spacebar or DCS spacebar.
GMK Enough is ENOUGH keyset when?
That keyset should be composed entirely of ISO Enter keys.
That keyset should be composed entirely of ISO Enter keys.
Someone designed the board already...
http://www.40percent.club/2018/11/i-s-hole.html (http://www.40percent.club/2018/11/i-s-hole.html)
I think they should do more group buys in G20 profile.
G20 has been out of production for a little while.QuoteMany of you are wondering what happened to the G20 keysets for Semiotic and Stealth. G20 was an experiment. We wanted to test market acceptance of a fairly unique shape and profile using some prototype tooling. The results were very positive and we are now in the process of designing and building new G20 production tooling. We will continue to run G20 blanks on the prototype tooling but, due to the cosmetic challenges during printing, we will not be sublimating keysets from this prototype tooling. I'm hesitant to say when the new tooling will be production ready. Our track record for release of new tooling (SA-P, DSS) has been less than stellar, but we are hoping to have pre-production sets available by the summer of 2019.Quote
https://pimpmykeyboard.com/whats-new/
D:
I am a g20 lover. Maybe i might be able to make my own G20 keycaps someday..
Jason @ the key. Company is working with an alternative producer of dye sub pbt caps in cherry profile. The pictures I've seen so far are very promising, but they didn't perform so well (had to cancel some colour combinations during the gb).Gmk really does satisfy everyone’s needs for quality and reliability... other competitors such like SP take too long because they don’t have the establishments for it. There is only one way for gmk sets to diminish, if pbt set makers like enjoypbt find a way to incorporate more colors into the sets.This is not a matter of manufacturer, but keycap profiles. Everyone wants to run their sets in Cherry ABS for some reason, and there are plenty of great profiles out there not being utilized. Everything does NOT need to be cherry profile, or even doubleshot ABS. Variety is good.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
People generally seem to want some combination of the following, in no particular order:
- Bright color options, including the ability to do light-on-dark
- Crisp clean legends
- Durability to scuffs
- Not too tall, both for aesthetic reasons and for typing comfort (low wobble, don't need to hold hand way up high over the board or use a tall wrist rest)
- Nice wide typing surface with relatively small gaps
- Some curvature in the tops (i.e. not flat tops)
- Sculpted profile
- That classic Cherry look
- Thick plastic for deeper sound and smoother/softer feel
- Reliable manufacturing with good QC
- Easy to get in touch with and work with (as a Westerner)
GMK ticks all of those boxes. All other keycaps fail in at least one or two categories.
NPKC and WinMix/KPRepublic Cherry profile is less "premium", has ugly modifier legends, and the latter has serious QC problems. Also it's PBT.
Tai-Hao OEM is fine quality but people just don't like typing on OEM, and has poor compatibility. They also don't run custom color GBs to my knowledge.
NPKC PBT OEM has great compatibility but it's still OEM. Additionally has a "rough" texture that lots of people don't like, and doesn't feel premium. Personally I think OEM is underrated for its typing experience but it also has a stigma that will be hard to get over.
Tai-Hao Cubic is like SA in that it's tall and chunky and not super comfortable to type on, also it's unbelievably loud and clacky due to the shape of the keycaps, and has not-great compatibiilty. And like their OEM, they don't do custom GBs, and the existing colorway (apart from Concrete) are frankly wack. Unlike SA it's not really beautiful either. Cubic is nobody's favorite.
DSA is making somewhat of a comeback, with Milkshake and now Scientific. This is deserved. DSA is a good profile, especially as mid-angle boards (4-7 degrees) are starting to gain popularity.
SA, whether SP or Maxkey, doesn't have the elite status it once had, but it still has its diehard fans. The common sentiment is "nice to look at and listen to (except the spacebar), not comfortable to type on".
People like KAT, MT3, EPBT Cherry profile, and MDA, but there's only so much you can do aesthetically with PBT. Novelpro is going to be another PBT player, more of an MT3 competitor than anything, and it's still a long way off at any rate. Also new KAT sets are basically unavailable due to issues at Keyreative and ZFrontier. EPBT is getting more popularity as the quality continues to rise (thanks for your hard work Gok!). MDA feels nice but I think it looks kinda weird and that turns people off. XDA is polarizing, either you love it or you hate it; it lacks mass appeal. MT3 is the same way, albeit with a bit of additional respect for its vintage aesthetic.
JTK keycaps don't feel or sound as nice as GMK for some reason, and the wonky legend issues still aren't fixed.
MT3 ABS has weird/bad font and the first set still hasn't shipped.
So what's left? Nothing.
Maybe SP decides to restore or recreate the old thick Comptec DCS. Maybe someday they actually (re)produce DSS (and we pray that it's not as thin as DCS). Or maybe Novelkeys and/or Spectreill revive the SSS profile they had worked on. Maybe HuB makes a comeback. Otherwise... I don't see how the GMK glut will ever end, unless the communal wallet runs dry.
My favorite element of GMK interest checks is the exposure to the broad variety of "black" and "white" colors that GMK has access to - it's fascinating watching someone deploy a new white-on-black or black-on-white GMK set that has ever so slightly more or less tint in any direction from everyone else's set because dammit it's just not black-on-white ENOUGH to buy GMK Stormtrooper or GMK Asphalt Snow or GMK Death in Winter or whatever.NoFunAllowed.svg
It's like going to a Linux user conference. Everyone's reinventing that wheel.
My favorite element of GMK interest checks is the exposure to the broad variety of "black" and "white" colors that GMK has access to - it's fascinating watching someone deploy a new white-on-black or black-on-white GMK set that has ever so slightly more or less tint in any direction from everyone else's set because dammit it's just not black-on-white ENOUGH to buy GMK Stormtrooper or GMK Asphalt Snow or GMK Death in Winter or whatever.
It's like going to a Linux user conference. Everyone's reinventing that wheel.
…
If none of that matters to you, then great! You'll save a lot of money. But I think it's pretty off-base to say that multiple variations of BoW are "reinventing the wheel" -- that would imply that each of these GB runners is pretending that their BoW is the only correct one, or something like that.
I wonder if the people manufacturing Leopold's doupleshot pbt keycaps could start selling them separately and/or working with community. They have already released them in bunch of different color variations.
- Cherry esque profile (might have own name?) Lays slightly lower than cherrys, which is kinda cool.
- More textured surface, some people like, some don't.
- Super clean and well designed legends.
- The keyboards are selling cheaper than most of the GMK base sets, so I imagine keycaps themselves would be rather affordable. Ofc smaller quantities and need for more molds would incresase the price, but at least it's not based in Germany.