Non Staggered Suggestions

[bunnyfly]

Hello everybody. I'm REALLY eager to have a non staggered keyboard, but there are so few options out there and I'm a very picky girl! I'm wondering if any of you have suggestions on buying or making one?

Here is a bit about what I'm looking for...
- I have always hated "regular" kbs. I prefer crisp scissor switch as they feel more comfortable and I can type faster on them for longer. However, I am willing to try something like Cherry switches because of how much they're praised - but only if they don't have that huge deep push required for a keystroke on most full sized kbs. I also hate floppy or mushy scissor switches. I type on a Logitech diNovo now and like the feel, but not the layout.
- I'm willing to try matrix style or otherwise. But I want the keys non-staggered and I'm hoping to separate my hands with either space (as in a split kb) or modifier keys/numpad for straighter wrists.
- I'm not rich so I can't afford a Maltron or anything, which looks interesting

The Typematrix looks decent, but I don't like the modifier key setup and some of the layout of either model. I've looked at the Plum and REALLY like it. I think it would just about the most perfect thing besides making my own...but I heard their keys are sub standard and get stuck if they're pushed off center. I just called her and she said she's never had a return for that though. Now I'm looking at the Cherry SPOS G86-63400 because it really seems perfect to customize - I could get my Colemak layout and thumb-pressed modifier keys and glue a few of them together with a metal or plastic top for a larger right thumb spacebar. But it is a little expensive and I have no clue what the tactile feel of it would be like.

Any suggestions on how to go about building my own or do you know of one that might work for me? Is there a place that sells individual screw or glue on scissor switches or regular keys that I could wire into my own board? Should I cut a board along its rows, push them straight, and glue them together?

I think the best would be a blank matrix with crisp scissor-switches but...anyways, thank you SO much in advance!
[chloe]

[bhtooefr]

A scissor switch is just a way of stabilizing a key on a rubber dome over membrane keyboard, so there's no individual keyswitches available, I'm afraid.

The Cherry ML is a low-profile tactile keyswitch, so it might be up your alley...

However, I'll say that most of the standard keyswitches that we like... don't require full activation to send a keystroke. I'm a fan of buckling spring, myself, but seeing as the only manufacturer of it is Unicomp, and they don't have a non-staggered board... But, Cherry MX keyswitches are popular here... I've personally not tried any of them, but you might like the browns, from what I've heard about them.

(Maltron uses the Cherry MXes, FWIW...)

I'm doing some quick googling, seeing if there's anything of note, though.

[bhtooefr]

OK, I'll note that the Plum uses the MLs, so if you don't like the Plum, then you won't like the MLs. (But, I see you've not tried one.)

There are off-the-shelf keyboard decoders, so you could always get a bunch of keyswitches (there's places selling 250 packs of Cherry MX keyswitches, if nothing else, although you might be better off buying a keyboard that uses Cherry MXes, because you'll need keycaps, too,) and solder up your own board.

[lowpoly]

I'm willing to try matrix style or otherwise. But I want the keys non-staggered and I'm hoping to separate my hands with either space (as in a split kb) or modifier keys/numpad for straighter wrists.

I don't see how you can keep your wrists straight on a non-staggered board unless it's a split board:



(link)

If you split your keyboard halves you can put them so far apart that your lower arms are parallel. This will require non-staggered keys then as seen on the Kinesis and Maltron boards.

But if your keyboard halves are close together then your lower arms are at an angle and you will have to bend your wrists to be able to type on a non-staggered board. Like in the 'wrong' pic.

Maybe this is different with another layout?

As for ML keys getting stuck, we had that discussion in the past. Best would be to try it out yourself.

Here is an example of a hand wired board. Some Cherry switches can be snapped into steel or plastic plates, I guess that's the type they use here.

Should I cut a board along its rows, push them straight, and glue them together?

Building from scratch may be less work as the board also contains the 'wiring'. Here is an example where someone cut off the numpad. You will need a lot more wires.

Edit: There are also the POS (Point Of Sale) keyboards like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PREH-COMMANDER-MC-84WX-Programmable-Keyboard-POS-NEW_W0QQitemZ200234679986QQihZ010QQcategoryZ11892QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Just get two of these cheap on ebay. No idea what kind of switches they use though.

Edit 2: I just saw that the Cherry G86 you mentioned is also a POS board.

[djones]

Have you considered trying a dvorak layout? You might find that that it reduces reaching for the non-homerow keys.

The kinesis advantage has non-staggered rows with decent keyswitches (cherry browns), with thumb-modifiers which you seem to want. I didn't particularly like it, but you should try it nonetheless since there's a 30 day guarantee (which they honored without hassle for me). A little pricey at $300.

Also, once you try a normal/staggered keyboard with real switches, you might find that whatever discomfort you're having may fade away, so I'd give them a try. the Das Keyboard has blue cherry switches which may be right up your alley.

[lowpoly]

Scroll down to the last two:

http://www.tysso.org/programmable_keyboard/programmable_keyboard.html

The PKB-078 is membrane with Cherry switches optional.



The PKB-111 uses Cherry switches. It might be wide enough. You just have to move some keycaps around and program it for your layout. You can even print your own key labels. These are probably linear Cherrys though.



Both available from $99 according to this price list.

Edit: This looks like the PKB-078 and has "tactile feeling" (which would be Cherry browns).

[bunnyfly]

Thank you all so much for your replies. Well - I bought a Typematrix 2020 as they're only $50 right now. I think, unless it just really works for me that I'm going to return it - I just need to see what a non staggered board is really like before embarking on a big project or paying three times as much for a Typematrix 2030 when they come out.

Bhtooefr, I just might buy a keyboard with Cherry switches (MLs?) and tear it apart because from all that I can find, anybody selling Cherry switches, even if you're buying 1000, 5000, it's cheaper to buy a board with as many than to buy just switches...I have NO idea how the manufacturing economic world works?!

Sofaking - the PKB-111 looks really promising! Thank you so much for pointing it out along with all the other advice and links. It looks really programmable too - it might really be worth it! I'm definitely going to keep it in mind in case the Typematrix sortof works, but not quite, you know?

Djones - I'm planning on teaching myself Colemak as soon as I get a non staggered keyboard. It uses even less effort than Dvorak, while keeping the Ctrl+ZXCV shortcuts and QWERTY punctuation (except ";") I began to teach myself it, and am excited, but thought since I'm switching to a different keyboard layout as well, I might as well learn them together - it will probably make switching to staggered QWERTYs away from home easier since they'll feel different, you know? Pain isn't really a factor for me though. (yet!) I'm 23 - so I'm just a geek and am trying to make my computer experience more efficient and...geeky. And, I guess contrary to a lot of people's experience here, typing on laptop style keys is actually more comfortable for me?

Anyways - I will update when I get my Typematrix and decide what to do next about the situation : ) Thank you all again so much!
[chloe]

[iMav]

So, how's the Typematrix???

[Roboman]

Sorry for the bump, but this thread is pretty much exactly what I've been looking for. Apart from one extra question.

I've been searching for non-staggered keyboards for a potential project I'd like to do - using a grid-like keyboard as a midi controller of sorts. The software side of it is all already covered and working, and those keyboards that lowpoly posted 3-posts up look almost ideal for this. Like this one especially:



But theres a potential problem. Nearly all "blank-keys-on-a-grid" style keyboards appear to be Points of Sale keyboards. But for this project I'd like to have something equal to or greater than a 4-key rollover (for playing chords). Considering the purpose of these points of sale keyboards, they wouldn't exactly have multi-keypresses in mind. Like they are mostly designed for people slowly poking with their index fingers at checkouts. I know this is a VERY specific ask haha.

So does anybody know what the rollover value is like on these sorts of things? I can't find this sort of information anywhere. Cheeers.

[lowpoly]

I guess you have to try this for yourself. Or ask the manufacturer.

On a mechanical keyboard you can add your own diodes to the pcb. It'll be a lot of work though.