3 Years with the HHKB2, not my end game.

[iLLucionist]

Preach iLLucionist

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This happens to me, I use my 55g 87U at home and my HHKB type-s at the office. Just when I am thinking 55g is end-game, I will sit down at the office after being away for a bit and start typing on the type-s and I'm immediately not so sure anymore. The HHKB is just something else and a lot of that comes from the plastic case. Being light is also a huge plus for a board that's made to travel, that being said my personal preference is a heavy board so I will be trying out one of RAMA's cases when they come out. I know he is working on keeping the feel of the HHKB intact.

Yeah it's weird... it almost feels like the whole switch on the HHKB is different. Interesting that you share the same opinion. It feels more like I'm touching a piano key, like you really dig in.

What are RAMA's cases? I'm unaware of them.

A piano key is one of best ways of describing the HHKB feel. It's not mentioned enough when people talk about what HHKB to buy but the type-s feels even more like a piano key (slightly more precise travel IMO). https://rama.works/ has been teasing some alu HHKB cases (check his instagram), will be a while still as he is currently working on the M65 but he has indicated this year.

I want a Type-S... but so expensive. For me it's closer to 500$ because I have to pay shipping costs to the Netherlands AND import tax. FML...

Haven't tried a HHKB Type S, but as a musician I can say it feels nothing like playing the piano, which is fortunate, or else you'd all have RSI :D piano felt a lot heavier, and doesn't not have a thock haha

I am a hobby pianist myself. The comparison was not the actuation force or the thock, but rather the feel that you "dig in" into the keys, like on an acoustical piano.

[Polymer]

Layout-wise, I also have a little trouble switching between HHKB, TKL and various full size boards, mostly Model M, but I put that down to mostly psychological issues or conditioning.

Indeed. We call it muscle memory, and it is biomechanically inefficient (and frustrating) to try to consciously override it.

Biggest issue for me has been finding the Backspace-key, switching back and forth between the HHKB and the 87U. But now after a year with the HHKB at the office and the 87U at home, it has become effortless.

Yeap..that was the biggest problem I had with switching back and forth...so much so that I had considered getting rid of the HHKB because it just wasn't worth the hassle...then everything just clicked and it became effortless to switch back and forth..

[bloorocket]

Nothing to be ashamed OP, say it loud and proud, HHKB IS NOT MY ENDGAME.
Neither was mine, layout was funny and the Thock feels cheap and hollow.

[khakis1111]

I have been using HHKB, Realforce 87U 45g and 55g, and Leopold FC 660C for a long time now.. I think I would have agreed with the OP had I only used HHKB.

After using my Realforce 45g only (my first "mech" keyboard) for four straight years, it felt so plain to me. I clearly remember being amazed by how good it felt to type on it. As expected, I loved the HHKB Type-S when I got it. I even loved its lightness. At least for me, HHKB being lighter and more plasticky didn't necessarily mean "less sturdy". In fact, its plastic housing added something else to the typing experience; it felt more bouncy and sporty than my tanky and snappy Realforce. The two keyboards complemented each other so much that I was willing to overlook the hassle of getting used to HHKB's layout.

I know a lot of the people that like their ultra compact minimalist keyboard to be super heavy, tanky, and made out of some kind of metal. I do too, and that's why I loved Realforce and used nothing but for 4 years. But HHKB was an exception for me. It being light and plasticky were the reasons why I kept it at all.

[bloorocket]

I have been using HHKB, Realforce 87U 45g and 55g, and Leopold FC 660C for a long time now.. I think I would have agreed with the OP had I only used HHKB.

After using my Realforce 45g only (my first "mech" keyboard) for four straight years, it felt so plain to me. I clearly remember being amazed by how good it felt to type on it. As expected, I loved the HHKB Type-S when I got it. I even loved its lightness. At least for me, HHKB being lighter and more plasticky didn't necessarily mean "less sturdy". In fact, its plastic housing added something else to the typing experience; it felt more bouncy and sporty than my tanky and snappy Realforce. The two keyboards complemented each other so much that I was willing to overlook the hassle of getting used to HHKB's layout.

I know a lot of the people that like their ultra compact minimalist keyboard to be super heavy, tanky, and made out of some kind of metal. I do too, and that's why I loved Realforce and used nothing but for 4 years. But HHKB was an exception for me. It being light and plasticky were the reasons why I kept it at all.

How is the feeling after 4 years? Has the rubber become more stiffer?
H

[iLLucionist]

I have been using HHKB, Realforce 87U 45g and 55g, and Leopold FC 660C for a long time now.. I think I would have agreed with the OP had I only used HHKB.

After using my Realforce 45g only (my first "mech" keyboard) for four straight years, it felt so plain to me. I clearly remember being amazed by how good it felt to type on it. As expected, I loved the HHKB Type-S when I got it. I even loved its lightness. At least for me, HHKB being lighter and more plasticky didn't necessarily mean "less sturdy". In fact, its plastic housing added something else to the typing experience; it felt more bouncy and sporty than my tanky and snappy Realforce. The two keyboards complemented each other so much that I was willing to overlook the hassle of getting used to HHKB's layout.

I know a lot of the people that like their ultra compact minimalist keyboard to be super heavy, tanky, and made out of some kind of metal. I do too, and that's why I loved Realforce and used nothing but for 4 years. But HHKB was an exception for me. It being light and plasticky were the reasons why I kept it at all.

How is the feeling after 4 years? Has the rubber become more stiffer?
H

I have a black HHKB that I have since approximately May 2013, so that's about 3.5 years now. And I have a white HHKB that I have since approximately December 2013, so that's about 4 years now.

The black HHKB has been relatively stiff since I first bought it, so my initial reaction towards Topre was "so this is it? This is the religion? WTF". To top it off, spacebar felt horrible. So I typed on it, it was bette than MX Browns, better than rubberdome or my MacBook's scissors, but not the coming home feeling I expected.

So half year later I ordered the white HHKB, knowing that is typically a bit smoother. It was awesome. It IS awesome. I use it as my daily driver.

The black HHKB is still as crappy as it was. I still don't know why, but it has not deteriorated more.

The white HHKB is still silky buttery smooth as it was when I bought it.

But other people argue that in like 10 years or so the rubber will stiff up. We'll see.

But in short: I have not noticed any signs of the rubber "stiffening up" although that is still what I'm afraid for that will happen in the future.

[shadowku]

Tightening the screws at the back made my board less creaky.
The quality itself isn't bad by any means, I'd say it's not any different from my Filco except that it's not plate mounted, which I appreciate as I carry my HHKB a lot (until I get a keyboard for home).

The layout though - I bought my HHKB knowing exactly how the layout would fit me. I can really only use it when I have it hooked up to my Mac, where the command key is used for nearly all of the shortcuts. I've also switched to VIM-mode on XCode which has further enhanced the experience for me (no longer need arrow keys when typing in the main editor, but still need them to navigate IDE).

The layout is sometimes cumbersome on Windows (maybe switching back and forth so much is messing with me) but I think if I was using Windows exclusively, I'd probably get the Japanese layout or get a different Topre board. That said, I find it hard to enjoy other key switches as much now. I had to sell my Filco with browns because they felt so sandy after I got used to my HHKB. Ergo Clears aren't bad, but they need to be well lubed, and even then, Topre switches still feel much smoother.

I'm thinking of getting the FC660C/FC980C for home now.

[arninja21]

Switching layout is hard that is why I plan to only use HHKB layout boards. As of now I'm fine with using a standard layout at home since I don't do much typing (even gaming). Forcing my self to only use HHKB layout will make me good at it. In the office it should be fine when somebody else needs to type something since I am using a Laptop. They can just use the keyboard in the laptop since my board has blanks. HHKB = endgame? I don't think so but I definitely need one for office use. 

[iLLucionist]

The layout is sometimes cumbersome on Windows (maybe switching back and forth so much is messing with me) but I think if I was using Windows exclusively, I'd probably get the Japanese layout or get a different Topre board. That said, I find it hard to enjoy other key switches as much now. I had to sell my Filco with browns because they felt so sandy after I got used to my HHKB. Ergo Clears aren't bad, but they need to be well lubed, and even then, Topre switches still feel much smoother.

Interesting. Yeah, the layout makes more sense on OS X, as OS X already has these weird shortcuts to emulate page up / page down / beginning of a word / end of a word etc.

However, I recently switched to Windows and I find it difficult to get accustomed to the HHKB because Windows overall relies on "legacy keys" like page up / home / end / page down. And the combo's on the HHKB just feel off. I should probably try to remap to OS X bindings in Windows somehow..

[clankgy1]

Tightening the screws at the back made my board less creaky.
The quality itself isn't bad by any means, I'd say it's not any different from my Filco except that it's not plate mounted, which I appreciate as I carry my HHKB a lot (until I get a keyboard for home).

The layout though - I bought my HHKB knowing exactly how the layout would fit me. I can really only use it when I have it hooked up to my Mac, where the command key is used for nearly all of the shortcuts. I've also switched to VIM-mode on XCode which has further enhanced the experience for me (no longer need arrow keys when typing in the main editor, but still need them to navigate IDE).

The layout is sometimes cumbersome on Windows (maybe switching back and forth so much is messing with me) but I think if I was using Windows exclusively, I'd probably get the Japanese layout or get a different Topre board. That said, I find it hard to enjoy other key switches as much now. I had to sell my Filco with browns because they felt so sandy after I got used to my HHKB. Ergo Clears aren't bad, but they need to be well lubed, and even then, Topre switches still feel much smoother.

I'm thinking of getting the FC660C/FC980C for home now.

The layout is why I have left my HHKB in the box and use my Pok3r for a travel board.  I wish I could get used to the HHKB BS/Del being so close to the Return key, but given the fact that I use TKL regularly (home board), I just can't overcome the positional difference.  I prob wont sell mine, but I won't invest in any more HHKB.

I would pay even more for a TKL that has the same feel as the HHKB.  In my mind, it can't be beat.  The RF87U 55g that I have incoming from Massdrop is close, but not the same (plate mount vs. PCB mount).

[DaBubbs]

As an HHKB2 owner, I can attest to the fact that the keyboard feels a bit too light (bordering on cheap) in terms of case quality, the layout isn't ideal, and the lack of programmability out of the box makes it inferior to the pok3r I was using at work before being laid off.

But I knew all of that before buying the HHKB.  I keep it as an option because the HHKB excels in one key area: feel.  It feels better than any MX or Gateron based board I've used.  And the lack of a metal backplate feels better to me than the RF topre implementation.

If I were in a situation where I was the only person using keyboards both in work and personal situations, I'd likely standardize on hasu-HHKB2s everywhere and deal with the substandard layout.  The feel is that important to me.  But I'm not so it will be TKLs for me as main drivers and pok3r/HHKB as travel boards.

Funny you say that about the feel. I haven't been at my office as of recently and at home I have the 87U 55G which I decided is endgame. I disliked the HHKB after trying out Clears beacuse it felt too light and too mushy.

But then the HHKB won my heart over. I was at office the other day and I start pecking away and immediately I thought "man... this feel is unique." HHKB is not only Topre-feel, it is HHKB-feel. I don't know whether it is the case mounting, the lubing, or something else. But the feel (and the sound) is really unique.

Preach iLLucionist

Show Image

This happens to me, I use my 55g 87U at home and my HHKB type-s at the office. Just when I am thinking 55g is end-game, I will sit down at the office after being away for a bit and start typing on the type-s and I'm immediately not so sure anymore. The HHKB is just something else and a lot of that comes from the plastic case. Being light is also a huge plus for a board that's made to travel, that being said my personal preference is a heavy board so I will be trying out one of RAMA's cases when they come out. I know he is working on keeping the feel of the HHKB intact.

That is my experience as well. I have a RF 55g 87U and a HHKB. I keep switching between the two trying to see which is better. Really just depends on the day... and sometimes to what I am working on / doing.

Overall, I thoroughly enjoy both boards.

[DaBubbs]

Oh, and to the OP's point. I have only had the FC660C a littel over a month but I feel similar about it (perhaps) that you feel about the HHKB. I really like it and it is a great keyboard, but if I had it and my HHKB and my RF 55g 87U in front of me, I would pick it last.

As always, it boils down to personal preference of course. I have read a ton of terrific FC660C reviews and I agree with a lot of them. That said, I pull it out a few times a week to try it and I just can't seem to love it like my other two boards.

[yohanskee]

Topre isn't the endgame, and also mx isn't the endgame because there is no end in this game 

[mrduul]

Topre isn't the endgame, and also mx isn't the endgame because there is no end in this game 

Kishsaver is the end game. 

[PollandAkuma]

Once I realised Topre is not my endgame, life took a dark turn...

[rowdy]

Once I realised Topre is not my endgame, life took a dark turn...

You turned the lights off?

[PollandAkuma]

Once I realised Topre is not my endgame, life took a dark turn...

You turned the lights off?

No, it turned off by itself since I'm so broke

[dante]

Topre isn't the endgame, and also mx isn't the endgame because there is no end in this game 

There is always an endgame.  Bankruptcy, the wife leaving and taking the kids, etc...

[yohanskee]

Topre isn't the endgame, and also mx isn't the endgame because there is no end in this game 

There is always an endgame.  Bankruptcy, the wife leaving and taking the kids, etc...

Hahaha 🤣 never think about it before, but those are true


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Altis]

Oh, and to the OP's point. I have only had the FC660C a littel over a month but I feel similar about it (perhaps) that you feel about the HHKB. I really like it and it is a great keyboard, but if I had it and my HHKB and my RF 55g 87U in front of me, I would pick it last.

As always, it boils down to personal preference of course. I have read a ton of terrific FC660C reviews and I agree with a lot of them. That said, I pull it out a few times a week to try it and I just can't seem to love it like my other two boards.

Do you have an early or later version?

From what I understand, the FC660C changed and I'm not sure the latter version is as good as the early one.

[TopreFan333]

Heaviness /= build quality

Just because something is light, that doesn't mean it's badly made. I have a feeling you could bolt a few dozen grams of lead fishing weights into an HHKB and everyone would suddenly believe it's got better "build quality". In fact, you can read lots of teardowns of headphones that reveal strategically placed weights to make them feel more "substantial".

I'm 2 years and probably hundreds of thousands of words into my HHKB daily, and there's no creaking, nothing moves that shouldn't, nothing is loose. It's built beautifully, and the keys are a hell of a lot less wobbly than the Cherry board I own.

[TopreFan333]

I would have loved to see Topre spend their production budget for the RGB on a heavier, sturdier case (like other RealForce boards) rather than LED backlighting and variable actuation.

Seems like that RGB board is marketed to gamers, so that would explain the terrible aesthetic and emphasis on actuation point. The marketing copy specifically refers to actuation points relative to which type of gaming one does. Not that one can't use it to type, but god knows gamers love to have ugly **** like this on their desk.

The thing about the HHKB is that it pretty much owns its market niche: the 60% Topre niche. Topre themselves stubbornly refuse to offer their own product, leaving users with only one awkward (in my view) option. It's not as heavy or sturdy as a genuine Topre model would probably be, but it does prove that given no other options, people can get used to (and become fans of) anything.

Interesting idea. A Realforce 60% board (plate-mounted) would be really cool to try for people who like the stiffer feel. There might even be some people who'd be into an ergonomically weighted version of that. It's probably a pretty small niche, though?

I think it's easy in a forum like this to get the idea that there's anecdotally all this interest in whatever niche we find -- but maybe the numbers don't add up on a scale that justifies going into production.

[Altis]

Seems like that RGB board is marketed to gamers, so that would explain the terrible aesthetic and emphasis on actuation point. The marketing copy specifically refers to actuation points relative to which type of gaming one does. Not that one can't use it to type, but god knows gamers love to have ugly **** like this on their desk.

To be fair, I do find that RGB can be really useful for RTS gaming where my fingers aren't static like they are in FPS.

Being able to have different colours for the different areas can be useful.

I can also see a use for variable sensitivity so that adjacent keys aren't accidentally pressed but require more travel to actuate.

I just wish the Realforce RGB was TKL or 75%, though the MX stems are a really nice touch.

[TopreFan333]

To be fair, I do find that RGB can be really useful for RTS gaming where my fingers aren't static like they are in FPS.

I'm not averse to a little backlighting for regular non-gaming use in darker rooms -- but like on the scale that Apple laptops use, just enough to read the legends. The gaming keyboards all seem to be 10x too bright, like most LEDs used in electronics these days.

[PollandAkuma]

Three weeks with HHKB, not my endgame...

[Doluded]

Three weeks with HHKB, not my endgame...

3 months with HHKB, endgame doesn't exist.

[Altis]

To be fair, I do find that RGB can be really useful for RTS gaming where my fingers aren't static like they are in FPS.

I'm not averse to a little backlighting for regular non-gaming use in darker rooms -- but like on the scale that Apple laptops use, just enough to read the legends. The gaming keyboards all seem to be 10x too bright, like most LEDs used in electronics these days.

I think that's the point though (other than just looking flashy).

It's easier to place your hand in the right spot without having to look directly. Normal backlighting is for use while looking at the key legends when needed.

It's really nice for RTS when my hand is all over the place (although I don't actually have an RGB keyboard in my large collection) I often end up using my black HHKB and while my typing accuracy is fantastic despite the lack of legible legends, and I play FPS great with it, RTS is brutal. Heck, I often press Control instead of Shift.

I actually think backlighting is completely useless otherwise. It only seems like it's helpful when you already have it because the legends are faint on keycaps made for backlighting (as the legend part is a translucent plastic) -- otherwise the legends would be a vibrant white that are easily legible from the light of the monitor even.

[PQStarLord]

Had a similar experience with switching from MX blue to Novatouch.  I switched to Gateron Blacks now and they feel much better.