Realforce 86 (space saver model)

[Vinz]

Paypal is like that? You send money to an account. Sometimes the receiver requests the money but that seems to be the exception.

Well no, most sites lead you to a paypal link where you only have to login and confirm the transaction, after which you go back to the merchant's site. Gmarket has a help page with screenshots that shows you how to go to paypal yourself and set up your own transfer of funds to someone else. As it's not handled as an order there is no guarantee you're actually supposed to get something for your money, you're just giving it away at that point.

The slight overcharge is indeed to compensate for a fluctuating exchange rate, Gmarket itself suggests a slightly higher (1%?) amount than you actually need. As far as I can tell it's a few dollars. Haven't actually tried if I can get it back, but I'm not really concerned about that.

[xsphat]

You just need alcohol and heroin.

Check.

[Vinz]

It arrived today! Most of the delay actually was the customs office here in The Netherlands, who kept the package for over a week. The Korean guy shipped it within a few days. Luckily the customs guys didn't decide to make me pay import taxes, so I have no idea why they kept it this long.

I've just started typing on it 1 minute ago, so I have no idea how it'll work out yet. But it already feels like I'm typing more accurately and a bit faster, as if all the keys are in exactly the right spot. It feels a lot smaller than the logitech crapkeyboard I was using before this at the office, even though the key distance measures out to be the same. I think it's the different key angles per key row, you can easily hit all the keys without moving your hands a lot.

Oh, and just to be clear: this is the Korean version, which has black print on black keys and includes the red Escape key (wasn't installed by default, but xsphat is right, the included key puller (2 actually, 1 normal, 1 U-shaped) is very easy to use), but no key roof (which I wouldn't use anyway).

[bhtooefr]

You don't have to be lucky.  You just need alcohol and heroin.  Oh, you meant the markets.  In that case, my statement still applies.

You just need larger quantities of alcohol and heroin to play the markets. And, instead of using the alcohol on yourself (beer goggles) and the heroin on Lohan, you use both on CEOs.

[lowpoly]

It arrived today!

Congrats on bringing up the courage to play the guinea pig and having everything work out perfectly.

You are also right about the Paypal thing, don't know why I didn't think of that.

[lopan]

When you say it's the korean version are you saying that it has korean characters on the keycaps or is it in english?

[Vinz]

When you say it's the korean version are you saying that it has korean characters on the keycaps or is it in english?

It has both QWERTY and Korean characters printed on the keycaps, and works 100% as a normal US QWERTY keyboard. It certainly makes for a more exotic keyboard!

[Vinz]

Some people asked me what I did exactly. I followed the advice and links Spitfire and others have posted on page 10 of this thread, the most relevant part being:

so I found this in global.gmarket.com :
http://global.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_goods/goods.asp?goodscode=133366957&pos_shop_cd=SH&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T&keyword_order=realforce&search_keyword=realforce

you have to search realforce in korean to find this....

색상 (above quantity) means color. 블랙 means black and 화이트 means white.

It seems GMarket has a mechanism where you can haggle online, but since I was intimidated enough by all the Korean as-is I just paid the listed price. It seems the Won is fluctuating against the dollar a bit, I seem to remember I paid about $250 for the keyboard, but it's listed as $230 now. My total price, including shipping (with online tracking) to The Netherlands ended up as $278,05. Quite a lot of money for such a small keyboard, but hey...

[lopan]

Shipping took 2 weeks? Which method did you choose?

[fkeidjn]

Some people asked me what I did exactly. I followed the advice and links Spitfire and others have posted on page 10 of this thread, the most relevant part being:

It seems GMarket has a mechanism where you can haggle online, but since I was intimidated enough by all the Korean as-is I just paid the listed price. It seems the Won is fluctuating against the dollar a bit, I seem to remember I paid about $250 for the keyboard, but it's listed as $230 now. My total price, including shipping (with online tracking) to The Netherlands ended up as $278,05. Quite a lot of money for such a small keyboard, but hey...

Now is it me, or did the price of the keyboard just rose from 280000 won to 310000 won?

[lopan]

Yes, it's more expensive now, but remember you can bargain. I offered 260000won and the offer was accepted. I ended up paying $212 shipped.

[lopan]

It has both QWERTY and Korean characters printed on the keycaps, and works 100% as a normal US QWERTY keyboard. It certainly makes for a more exotic keyboard!

That's odd, because the pictures on the site show just english.

[Vinz]

Shipping took 2 weeks? Which method did you choose?

Dunno what I chose. It was shipped by air within a few days, but the local customs office thought it was necessary to hold on to it for over a week before finally delivering it to me.

[Vinz]

That's odd, because the pictures on the site show just english.

Yup, it's slightly different (only the keycap prints though). I'll post a picture soonish.

[Ulysses31]

About the black-on-black key-caps; I am assuming that the lettering isn't printed on like it is with white keys?  From pictures I have seen, KBtalking and these black Topre models look as though the lettering is formed by partial smoothing of the key-cap (as opposed to the usual roughened surface), meaning that the lettering and the key-cap are one single piece of plastic.  This set-up would probably be more resistant to wear.

[lowpoly]

I suspect they use the same laser process, melting/burning the surface.

[megarat]

About the black-on-black key-caps; I am assuming that the lettering isn't printed on like it is with white keys?  From pictures I have seen, KBtalking and these black Topre models look as though the lettering is formed by partial smoothing of the key-cap (as opposed to the usual roughened surface), meaning that the lettering and the key-cap are one single piece of plastic.  This set-up would probably be more resistant to wear.

FWIW, this doesn't appear to be the case with the HHKBP2.  The black-on-black print appears to be printed.  (Not sure if the HHKBP2 counts as a "Topre model", but anyway ...)

[Vinz]

I can't feel the lettering with my fingers, if that answers your question. The letters seem to be in the keys, not on top of them. I keep meaning to bring a camera to the office so I can post a picture, but I keep forgetting it.

[Ulysses31]

Pictures of this keyboard would be appreciated.  They are about as close as i'll get to this thing

[Skarekrow]

Hey, could any of those who ordered a Realforce 86 from Gmarket tell me what they put in the shipping information boxes that said "sender's name" and "recipient's name" and "sender's email'?. I assume that by "sender", they mean the sender of the payment right? did you just put your own name in both boxes? or is one of them meant for someone else?

[fkeidjn]

I have a question:

Is NOW a good time to be buying the Realforce 86 from GMarket?  According to Yahoo finance, the value of the dollar is going strong against the Korean won (a dollar to 1424.8 won).  So would now be the good time, or should I wait until the a dollar is >1500 won?

Also, I noticed in the search result just now that there are two links to the Realforce 86, one of them apparently marked "New."  Does anybody know the difference?  They're from the same seller chips8812

[megarat]

Count me in as one who is planning to get one of these things, hoping to place my order in early November.

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I wasn't able to find it:  does the Realforce 86 have a built-in USB hub (like the HHKBpro2)?

[fkeidjn]

Count me in as one who is planning to get one of these things, hoping to place my order in early November.

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I wasn't able to find it:  does the Realforce 86 have a built-in USB hub (like the HHKBpro2)?

From the description pictures of the one on GMarket, it's safe to say that it doesn't have the built-in USB.

As for prices, I hope I can fetch that keyboard for an even lower price soon, considering current exchange rates.

[Korbin]

Count me in as one who is planning to get one of these things, hoping to place my order in early November.

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I wasn't able to find it:  does the Realforce 86 have a built-in USB hub (like the HHKBpro2)?

It doesn't.

[Bluemercury]

It doesn't.

But it still uses usb plug connection right?

[Bluemercury]

I will probably buy one in december......i already bought another HHKP2....

[lowpoly]

But it still uses usb plug connection right?

Not at the keyboard.

i already bought another HHKP2....

You really have to update your signature.

[Bluemercury]

Not at the keyboard.


You really have to update your signature.

you're right, must do that.

[sashomasho]

http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=18320
benippon has it again, more expensive than ever i may try some other japanese shipping agency, or probably gmarket, but I didn't understood if the guys which bought from there received their keyboards, anyone? which other agency would you recommend, aside from crescent and benippon?

[fkeidjn]

http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=18320
benippon has it again, more expensive than ever i may try some other japanese shipping agency, or probably gmarket, but I didn't understood if the guys which bought from there received their keyboards, anyone? which other agency would you recommend, aside from crescent and benippon?

$300 is a ridiculous price, especially when there are other places where you can definitely save a lot of money on, and considering the fact that the Japanese yen has gained a slight edge recently.

Speaking of GMarket, I tried bargaining with the dealer, once at 260000 won, the second time 275000 won.  Both deals were rejected .

Now if I'm really desperate for something new, maybe I should go for the Realforce 91, with the tiny spacebar and the upside-down L-shaped enter key.

I'd recommend trying Japanese Auction Agency.  I bought Amazon Japan items through them before, but it wasn't keyboards.  They're a lot easier to deal with than GMarket, if you ask me.

Now that my deals were rejected, I'm probably going to give up on GMarket and wait for the yen to decrease in value, if that happens anytime soon.

[Korbin]

http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=18320
benippon has it again, more expensive than ever i may try some other japanese shipping agency, or probably gmarket, but I didn't understood if the guys which bought from there received their keyboards, anyone? which other agency would you recommend, aside from crescent and benippon?

Holy smokes! It's gone up 70 bucks.

[D-EJ915]

Holy smokes! It's gone up 70 bucks.

somebody needs to fix the economy, srsly

[megarat]

somebody needs to fix the economy, srsly

I strongly suspect that this has at least as much to do with the fact that their last offering sold out in less than a week.  Curse that stupid law of supply and demand!

[D-EJ915]

I strongly suspect that this has at least as much to do with the fact that their last offering sold out in less than a week.  Curse that stupid law of supply and demand!

ah hadn't crossed my mind (I was talking earlier with some people about the exchange rates) but yes that could be very much an issue, but such a large increase would more likely drive customers away I'd imagine

[fkeidjn]

An update on my GMarket status:

My bargaining offer of 290000 won was rejected as well.  They only accepted it at 300000 won.  Maybe I should post my buying experience of and how to navigate through GMarket without running into walls?

Shouldn't a slouching economy cause prices to fall?  I guess not when it comes to keyboards, just the opposite, lol

[D-EJ915]

depends on what economy, I think it has to do more with fluxuations in currency values than anything, anyway far more advanced stuff than I know how to explain

[megarat]

Maybe I should post my buying experience of and how to navigate through GMarket without running into walls?

I, for one, would certainly appreciate that.  Thanks for the offer.

[megarat]

but such a large increase would more likely drive customers away I'd imagine

Perhaps, but then they just lower the price until it starts selling.  Keyboards have a long shelf life.  

[sashomasho]

Perhaps, but then they just lower the price until it starts selling.  Keyboards have a long shelf life.  

they already lowered it by 50 bucks to 282.47, still quite steep but already considerable

[Vinz]

Hey, could any of those who ordered a Realforce 86 from Gmarket tell me what they put in the shipping information boxes that said "sender's name" and "recipient's name" and "sender's email'?. I assume that by "sender", they mean the sender of the payment right? did you just put your own name in both boxes? or is one of them meant for someone else?

I just put in my own name. No idea what it's used for, and I couldn't find my own name multiple times on any invoices or shipping briefs. Doesn't really matter I guess.

[Vinz]

Pictures of this keyboard would be appreciated.  They are about as close as i'll get to this thing

Here you go!

Realforce alone: http://vinz.nl/images/realforce86_1024.jpg
Realforce + Kinesis and other crap: http://vinz.nl/images/realforce86_kinesis_1024.jpg

[Ulysses31]

Ooh, it's very stylish.  Such a shame that our currency is weakening so much now, i'd go for one of these if it were better value.

[Bluemercury]

So the price went higher, is gmarket still the place to get the black one?

[fkeidjn]

So the price went higher, is gmarket still the place to get the black one?

I'm not sure now, because the won went from a dollar for 1455 won down to a dollar for 1262.4 won, as can be shown by this flowchart, in other words, less won per dollar/euro

[Ulysses31]

For ultimate compactness, you'd have to go for a Filco Tenkeyless; it doesn't have that "extra inch" on the top.  I'm not counting the HHKB because it has a non-standard configuration.

[Chloe]

The Filco also have the Vista style Windows key.

[Vinz]

I like the red escape key cap. Although it should come with an extra black one in case you don't like it.

It comes with a black one fitted by default, but I pulled it for the included red one. Also, it has a replacement for the caps lock key labeled "Ctrl", and a replacement for the control key labeled "Caps Lock", since you can switch both around using the dip switches. I now have two Ctrl keycaps fitted, as I've remapped the Caps Lock to Ctrl in my OSes.

That Windows key is real fugly. I guess the new Windows Logo style does exactly what it was designed for: stand out. I don't like my keyboard to be a MS marketing/advertising apparatus.

Yes, it is. There's one advantage though: you can easily recognise the key by feel and avoid accidentally pressing it. The keyboard includes some thingies to slip under a key to disable depressing it entirely, but I use my windows key every now and then, so I've left it enabled.

The curves are too curvy, I like my lines more staright. There's over an inch of unused space at the top (what's in there??) which also sports a fugly silver logo. Love the charcoal HHKB style keycaps. Overall a weird mix. It's neither an industrial "I don't give a f*ck how ugly I am" type of keyboard, nor sophisticated design. I don't like that.

All that's personal preference. I really don't mind the inch on top for example. My desk is more than roomy enough, I only care about how wide the keyboard is, and it doesn't have any useless space there luckily. Also, the photo's were taken from directly above, from the position where you normally are the top inch is less noticeable, although certainly still there ofcourse.

More important though, I'd love to try the thing to see how the different weighted Topre keys turn out, an interesting concept. Despite the top it does have a nice form factor.

If you don't know they're there you don't consciously feel it. However, I normally move my hands a lot to avoid pressing several small keys with my weak pinkies, and on this keyboard I find I'm using them a lot more, so it certainly seems to work. It feels as if you're using exactly the same amount of force for every key, while on normal keyboards my less powerful fingers always have more trouble depressing keys.

[iMav]

The HHKB has a habit of spoiling people and ruining all other keyboards for them.  

Once you spend significant time on a HHKB, no other layout will do.  xsphat is the one anomaly.  

Webwit, not sure if I have formally welcomed you yet.  Welcome to geekhack!  As a HHKB snob myself, itt's always great to see other HHKB owners here.

[xsphat]

xsphat is the one anomaly.

Don't give me so much credit; I'm sure there are others. The Topre switch is great, and I now have it in my preferred layout. We all win, if we put in the time and money.

[xsphat]

Glad you found what you're looking for.

Congrats! and thank you. You are the first one to say that without inserting a sideways stab at me.