Keyboards with ADB port

[Masterchief79]

Hey guys,
I finally got my AEK2 (M3501) and a fitting USB adapter, so as I have one now, I'm wondering if there are other nice keyboards with an ADB port. I know the AEK1 (M0119?) also fits, and has orange ALPS. How are they? Tactile, how does the click feel, and how do they feel in comparison to the AEK2?
And of course, are there other cool keyboards with ADB?

Also curious if there are other mechanical keyboards, despite Cherry MX and ALPS, which are worth a try. I got lucky once and got myself a Mitsumi keyboard with mechanical switches ("lucky" -> the keyboard itself is probably the deepest sh*t). Suggestions?

[polpo]

There are the Apple A9M0330 (the first ADB keyboard) and M0116, both of which have Alps but I'm not sure which kind. I really like the keycaps on the A9M0330.


Some say the A9M0330 doesn't have Alps but the one I had several years ago definitely had some kind of undampened Alps variant, going by the way the board felt.

[Masterchief79]

Wow that one doesn't look bad at all, I will keep my eyes open. What are the keycaps on that board, something special? Lasered I suppose? I also saw Doubleshot ALPS here in the marketplace, I'm damn curious where that guy got them from...

PS: No mechanicals eh? http://kleinanzeigen.ebay.de/anzeigen/s-anzeige/tastatur-apple-design-keyboard/112312809-225-3528?ref=search

[1391406]

My first exposure to the Apple Extended Keyboards was an M3501. I'd heard so many great things about AEK II's that I just had to try one. After some searching on eBay, I finally got my hands on one and thought it felt really good... that is until I tried an AEK I.  In my opinion, the original Apple Extended Keyboard offers a superior typing experience. For starters, the AEK II key presses feel slightly grainy in comparison to the smoother key travel of the M0115. The actuation of the AEK I feels like it requires just a bit less force than the AEK II. I also found the clacking of the AEK I more satisfying, as well. To be honest, while I think the AEK II is a decent enough board, I'm not sure why it's received so much acclaim, as I think the AEK I offers a superior typing experience, but that's me.

[1391406]

Further, I never use the AEK II anymore if that tells you anything. I liked the AEK I so much I had to seek out a backup. I love them.

[Masterchief79]

I think the AEK2 is a nice piece of hardware, but from the typing, it rather feels like a _very_ good rubberdome - with a little click at the beginning. But it's comparable, unlike the feel of a MX Black or something like that. I'm curious if the AEK1 is even another league again
Found one "UMAX" Apple keyboard, clicky, but with a non-default spacebar. Looks like this:



Looks like an AEK2 to me, unfortunately. Sent the guy a message, lets see what I get back.

[1391406]

As for the light click of the AEK's we've discussed, this post explains it well:

"The orange ALPS can develop something that seems like clickiness but is actually not. The tactile metal gets pulled on the upstroke of the switch and pops back and forth to make a click that is unique (not like white alps). It is not what I would call true click, as it only happens on the upstroke and is due to damage/misformation of the switch and not meant to exist in that state."

If you're looking for something clicky, you might consider an MX Blue or Buckling Spring board. The Matias Tactile Pro (ALPS based) seems like a decent candidate, too. Then there are boards made by Chicony (eg KB-5181) and Focus(eg. FK-2001), among others.

[Masterchief79]

Well thanks so far. I just can't decide, I kind of need a collection of keyboards in my closet, all with different types of switches - after 3 weeks with white alps I maybe want Blacks or Browns or Blacks back. This forces me to have a rather big collection available all the time^^ That's also the reason why I'm reluctant to buy expensive keyboards. I have my MK-50 with browns and that's it, the rest are old cherries (G80-1000HDD vintage Blacks, G80-1000HFD vintage blues, G80-1800HFD blues), and the AEK2 of course, which I all got pretty cheap on eBay.
I took the browns on my MK-50 because the blacks are too stiff after a while, blues too clicky (slows down my typing somehow, with vintage blues however its okay, cause they don't click that hard by far). So, I don't need an extremely clicky switch for typing. Can be nice for gaming though. I'm also still waiting to test my first Model M buckling spring keyboard, hard to get them cheap...

Old ADB keyboard are actually just attractive, cause they are rather rare, especially on Windows 8 PCs if you know what I mean, and I want to add something more exotic to my collection (now that I have this adapter).

[1391406]

Well, if you feel Blacks are too stiff and Blues too clicky, there's a good chance you won't care for the feel and sound of the Model M, as the click is more prominent than with Blues and it has a much higher actuation force than Blacks.

[Masterchief79]

uuh yuck
First, I liked the blacks very much, cause you can type them without bottom out after a while. But I'm used to 45-50cN now, and I have the feeling it's pretty hard to raise the actuation force again once you got used to a lower one...
I have this strange 1984 Fake-Model-F from Taiwan with black switches, look like MX blacks but without cherry logo. They feel like about 75cN, and there's a white switch underneath space with at least 130cN... I tried typing that for some time, it's just impossible.

PS: Gonna get to bed now, it's nearly 2:30 in the morning here ._.

[vivalarevolución]

I actually have that Apple A9M0330 and its brother the Apple 658-4081.  Both boards came with the Apple IIGS computer system and I refer to them as the Apple IIGS boards"Both boards look the same but they have some subtle differences.

The A9M0990 is made in Taiwan and has white SMK switches, the tactile, non-clicky version of Monterey Blues.  The caps are a darker beige than its brother board, and I believe they are doubleshots.

The Apple 658-4081 in made in Japan and seems to have Orange Alps switches, which are tactile and some of the lightest Alps switches.  They feel almost linear.  To me, the build quality on this board is better than the Made in Taiwan version.   Perhaps the Japanese factory had better quality control.

I have a personal interest in this keyboard because I used it at my elementary school and I remembered it through all the years because I typed faster on this board than any other board back in the day.  Also, I love the keycaps on this thing.  Can't be found anywhere else.

If the switches give out, I can always buy some Matias switches and throw those on there, which I might do anyways because those feel better than vintage switches. 

I've been meaning to write a more detailed writeup on this board and toss in some pictures, but I've too busy as of late. 

[Masterchief79]

Sounds very nice, I will keep my eyes open, now I want one of those, too :s
What exactly are Monterey Blues? And how to those Matias switches feel in comparison to AEK1 or 2?

[Findecanor]

You can read more about SMK switches here. The "Monterey" are most likely SMK switches, but there is no branding on them and they were first encountered by keyboard enthusiasts on a "Monterey"-brand PC keyboard.. so the name stuck. They feel a lot like more tactile Cherry MX Blue, except that the click and reset points are the same. The keycaps are compatible with Alps, but they are not pin-compatible so you can't transplant them into an Alps keyboard.

The Matias Quiet switch is designed to feel the same as those in the AEKII. I have yet to try it out myself, so I can't tell more about it.

[fohat.digs]

I stopped in a salvage shop today and there were 2 "Apple Design Keyboards" lying in the pile.

From the top, they looked the same, but when I turned them over, one had a female ADB connector and the other had a permanent cable.

The one with the loose cable had the nice old Alps-compatible keys, and the other one had the newer incompatible ones.

Those keyboards are really bad, but I know that I have harvested keycaps from "Design" keyboards were good-quality PBT.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Chicony even wrote "SMK SW" on their KB-5181/2 PCB! I've confirmed with both Monterey and Chicony that the "Monterey" switches came from SMK.

Besides, they're just too perfect to be a clone — I have never seen a genuine clone of any Alps switch, while many companies cloned Cherry MX switches (even to the point that all the parts are interchangeable with real Cherry MX switches.) That said, they wouldn't be hard to clone as they're so badly made.

I don't have the IIGS keyboard, but I've got a Tulip SMK keyboard with tactile switches and it's close to being exceptional — the switches are far smoother than Matias clones or black Alps. It's the perfect smoothness of blue Alps, but tactile. They have a normal-looking click leaf, and a chamfered slider to cause the click leaf to slide at the last moment without clicking. (I'll post some photos of this one day to the DT wiki.) So far as I can tell, this approach is unique; Taiwan Tai-Hao went for a less angled leaf, and it doesn't work anywhere near as well (worse than MX brown).

The only down side to SMK is that they partially bind, making the smaller, non-stabilised modifier keys stiff. Not surprising, as SMK switches are known for their superb feel but terrible construction.

[vivalarevolución]

Chicony even wrote "SMK SW" on their KB-5181/2 PCB! I've confirmed with both Monterey and Chicony that the "Monterey" switches came from SMK.

Besides, they're just too perfect to be a clone — I have never seen a genuine clone of any Alps switch, while many companies cloned Cherry MX switches (even to the point that all the parts are interchangeable with real Cherry MX switches.) That said, they wouldn't be hard to clone as they're so badly made.

I don't have the IIGS keyboard, but I've got a Tulip SMK keyboard with tactile switches and it's close to being exceptional — the switches are far smoother than Matias clones or black Alps. It's the perfect smoothness of blue Alps, but tactile. They have a normal-looking click leaf, and a chamfered slider to cause the click leaf to slide at the last moment without clicking. (I'll post some photos of this one day to the DT wiki.) So far as I can tell, this approach is unique; Taiwan Tai-Hao went for a less angled leaf, and it doesn't work anywhere near as well (worse than MX brown).

The only down side to SMK is that they partially bind, making the smaller, non-stabilised modifier keys stiff. Not surprising, as SMK switches are known for their superb feel but terrible construction.

When you are referring to those switches on the Tulip board, are you talking about the white, non-clicky ones?

Also, I agree with you on the poor SMK switch quality.  The mount hole on one my switches is cracked, and the key cap has a tendency to fall off easily.

[Masterchief79]

Me again, just bought an Apple M0118 on eBay. Anyone got any info about this board? Switches, differences to M0115-117? There was also an old Apple Desktop Bus Mouse in that auction, I'm really looking forward to trying these out on my PC.

//Pic:

[fohat.digs]

Me again, just bought an Apple M0118 on eBay. Anyone got any info about this board? Switches, differences to M0115-117? There was also an old Apple Desktop Bus Mouse in that auction, I'm really looking forward to trying these out on my PC.

//Pic:

Show Image

You need an adapter, of course. The switches are probably orange Alps which are highly regarded. Otherwise, they may be "salmon" Alps which are also very nice. Some people think that the boards of that style made in Japan are better, I would not know.

Forget the mouse.

[Masterchief79]

xD okay then, I'll take pics and report on this board of course when I get it. I have this compucable ADB-USB adapter I already use with my AEK2.

// I therefore hope the switches at least differ from them on my AEK2.

[Masterchief79]

Hi, me again, found a pic of this Umax keyboard thing where a key (F6) is without a keycap:


(http://abload.de/image.php?img=kgrhqzhjcoehgr4352bqwi6u90.jpg)

Looks like some kind of ALPS, but which kind ó.Ň


Edit: Or could it be a regular AEK2 ALPS without case (key ripped off)?

[Findecanor]

I would be surprised if that is not just a slider over rubber dome. If the slider was centred height-wise, I would have thought that there was a probability of the keycaps being Alps-compatible. Too bad.

[tufty]

Me again, just bought an Apple M0118 on eBay. Anyone got any info about this board? Switches, differences to M0115-117? There was also an old Apple Desktop Bus Mouse in that auction, I'm really looking forward to trying these out on my PC.

//Pic:

Show Image

You need an adapter, of course. The switches are probably orange Alps which are highly regarded. Otherwise, they may be "salmon" Alps which are also very nice. Some people think that the boards of that style made in Japan are better, I would not know.

Forget the mouse.

As Fohat says, you'll either get orange or Salmon alps.  Both are nice.  That layout doesn't get you a locking caps key, which the M0116 has (a bonus, you don't have to butcher the key), but you'll possibly have to piddle about with Hasu's firmware to get a decent layout running.  Ping me if it's not working out for you, and I'll have a play (I have a 2-layer layout on my M0116 that works quite nicely, media keys and the works)

Hasu's firmware is pretty damn good, but it desperately need to get the ADB handler moved to interrupt rather than polling (it's getting better, but it still drops keys occasionally if you type at a decent clip).

Nice keyboard, and quite rare.  Score!

Simon

[Masterchief79]

Hey that sounds nice, thank you I got it very cheap on eBay. Im gonna try it with my ADB-USB adapter first, I don't have a native ADB port to test it on unfortunately.
How do I even modify a firmware on a keyboard? Man, I already miss the times when I just plugged my Qpad in and everything was fine : D Btw, I type rather quickly (125WPM if I have to), my Fake Model F also has problems with this, I have to treat it like a typewriter :>


Well thanks for your offer of assistance, I'm pretty sure Ima need it

[tufty]

Hey that sounds nice, thank you I got it very cheap on eBay. Im gonna try it with my ADB-USB adapter first, I don't have a native ADB port to test it on unfortunately.
How do I even modify a firmware on a keyboard? Man, I already miss the times when I just plugged my Qpad in and everything was fine : D Btw, I type rather quickly (125WPM if I have to), my Fake Model F also has problems with this, I have to treat it like a typewriter :>


Well thanks for your offer of assistance, I'm pretty sure Ima need it

The firmware fix involves adding a "teensy" microcontroller and a resistor, you're basically making a programmable ADB-USB adaptor. If your ADB-USB adaptor works well enough, you probably won't need it.

[Masterchief79]

Have heard of the teensy thing, thuoght about building one for an old terminal keyboard I found in the basement. Ima tried it with the adapter first though. Works well with my AEK2 despite left and right modifiers give the same signal... I will get the keyboard around 3th-4th of June, I will report  how things go.

[tufty]

Have heard of the teensy thing, thuoght about building one for an old terminal keyboard I found in the basement. Ima tried it with the adapter first though. Works well with my AEK2 despite left and right modifiers give the same signal... I will get the keyboard around 3th-4th of June, I will report  how things go.

ISTR that the left and right mods always give the same signal on the ADB boards.  Can't remember where I picked that little tidbit up from, it's a firmware "issue", I think.

[Masterchief79]

Got the Umax thing today btw, it's a clone with cheap rubberdome, as you said. I thought it looked like an AEK2 but it is rather similiar to these Apple Design Keyboards from 1995+.
Actually, where do I get a teensy, or do I have to solder one myself (would be no problem either, maybe I'm even gonna do it if it's so much cheaper).

[tufty]

Actually, where do I get a teensy, or do I have to solder one myself (would be no problem either, maybe I'm even gonna do it if it's so much cheaper).

http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/

[Masterchief79]

So, I just got my M0118, and apparently it has orange ALPS (it's a very light orange though, but I guess that's just blighted a bit). Unfortunately, at the transport, the Escape Key broke off. I only know the color of the switches because of that, it's nearly impossible to remove a keycap. I didn't make it till now.
It also has the Locking capslock switch which is kind of interesting. Might do some pics later (as there is already is one in this thread).

Until now (these are the first words I'm writing on it) everything seems to work fine. I type rather fast and there seem to be no problems with the firmware or anything, this adapter seems to be worth his money.

[Masterchief79]

Pics not working, I reuploaded them in this gallery:
http://abload.de/gallery.php?key=sU76pdAP

[tufty]

So, I just got my M0118, and apparently it has orange ALPS (it's a very light orange though, but I guess that's just blighted a bit).

Looks that way,yeah.  Are they clicky, or not?

Unfortunately, at the transport, the Escape Key broke off. I only know the color of the switches because of that, it's nearly impossible to remove a keycap. I didn't make it till now.

I assume you have the keycap.  Taking the caps off is kinda hard (the Alps sliders hang onto their keycaps), but once you get the hang of it, it's not too hard.  You need to come at the key from both sides with a flathead screwdriver.  Start with a corner, and work your way in from there.

The locking capslock is easy enough to "fix" once you have the keycap off, but I wouldn't bother unless it's confusing your ADB adaptor.  If you need to do it, there's a video somewhere (but I can't find it now) = basically, you remove the top of the switch, throw away the locking pin, and put it all together again - the result is a non-clicky, heavy-springed "normal" key.

BTW, what ADB adaptor are you using?

[Masterchief79]

Thanks for your reply. Everything is fine with the locking capslock. They are not clicky, but tactile. I compared the color again to this wiki (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM) and it's not a deep orange, it rather matches the Salmon color, so, I guess I got myself some Salmon ALPS. And they feel so perfectly^^

I'm using an mini ADB-to-USB Adapter by compucable:

[fohat.digs]

I compared the color again to this wiki (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM) and it's not a deep orange, it rather matches the Salmon color, so, I guess I got myself some Salmon ALPS. And they feel so perfectly^^

I have had at least 4-5 AEKs which I had always assumed were the "salmon" Alps because I like to eat salmon and was thinking about the fish.

When I heard "orange" I was thinking about bright traffic-control orange, and assumed that this was not my color.

Looking at this wiki, and seeing that their "salmon" is a very washed-out "coral" sort of color, I now think that my AEKs have all been orange.

Also, they list salmon as "less common" so it would not make sense that all of mine (obtained from far-flung sources) are the rare ones.

I have 2 at the moment (neither working 100%) and both are much closer to the orange shown than the salmon.

Does anybody have side-by-side photos to compare? Thanks!

[Masterchief79]

Well, their orange is also listed under "less common". Not easy to tell which one is which in the end. On the other hand, it's salmon/_pink_, and I can definetely tell these ones over here are not pink

[tooki]

Hi, me again, found a pic of this Umax keyboard thing where a key (F6) is without a keycap:

Show Image

(http://abload.de/image.php?img=kgrhqzhjcoehgr4352bqwi6u90.jpg)

Looks like some kind of ALPS, but which kind ó.Ň


Edit: Or could it be a regular AEK2 ALPS without case (key ripped off)?

Those UMAX pack-in keyboards are nothing like an AEK, layout aside. They're some el-cheapo OEM rubber dome keyboards that every clone vendor used (I had one just like it from Power Computing). A translucent USB version was also sold by MacAlly as the iKey.

[Findecanor]

So, I just got my M0118, and apparently it has orange ALPS (it's a very light orange though, but I guess that's just blighted a bit).

I would say that those are "salmon". You can compare to these images (page in Swedish, but we just want to see the images) where the sliders are clearly more deeply orange.
I don't know about the internal difference between "salmon" and "orange" Alps, though...

That keyboard has also got a locking switch with a white slider. I got a M0118 today, which has salmon Alps and a locking switch with a dark grey slider ...

[Masterchief79]

Hi guys me again, just read the entry for ALPS switches on AEK2 again and realized my AEK2 doesn't have the common cream ALPS, but the white cream ALPS which seem to be a lot more rare. I'd say I am mistaking them for regular white ALPS, but they aren't listed for AEK2's in the wiki.