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Vendor Terms of Service (VTOS)

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--- Quote from: samwisekoi on Thu, 23 May 2013, 19:45:46 ---Excellent.  Thank you for answering MY question, even if I did not answer yours.

I've expanded the quote of Rule 1 to show it in its entirety.  Let's look at each line...


So, if you "take this HO CC I paid $30 for, and I list it in the classifieds for $70 and sell it", the IRS isn't going to classify you as a business, and neither does Rule 1.a.

But what about Rule 1.b.?  To start, you aren't an "entity" like CM, you're not a representative of an entity like CM-Rajiv, so those don't apply at all.  The the question becomes "are you an individual who profits from sales, services, or group buying activities?"  Are you?  In any given year, do you make more money than you spend on sales, service or group buying activities?  I suppose if all you do is that ONE transaction, then you might say you made a profit.  But (a) you did way more than that, (b) the money and the number of transactions is trivial even if you change that out to a single $200 keyboard you sold for $400, and (c) you had no other costs WHATSOEVER involved in making the sale?

Rule 1.b. is to prevent people and entities who are actually making money from pretending they are not vendors.  It is almost true that you could reduce it to absurdity and make a literal case, but really, why bother?

On the other hand, if someone is actually making a living buying and selling, and then posts what appears to be an innocuous Great Find that points to their eBay site, that person is a vendor, and other people on this forum deserve to know so they can make informed choices.  Or if some PR person from NewEgg starts posting about how excellent their new keyboard is, that person is a representative of an entity, and should be classified as such.


So NOW have I answered your question?

Seriously.  I am trying to do just that.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Show Image

--- End quote ---

Ok, we're getting closer to an answer :)

I can completely understand everything except 1.b. Before I explain it, this Is what I think 1.b should look like.

--- Quote ---1. Who qualifies as a Vendor?
  b. Any individual, entity, or representative of an entity that profits from sales, services, or group buying activities.

--- End quote ---

The reason for this, is, I feel like as individuals who offer a service, such as The_Beast, WFD, The_Ed, should not be classified as "Vendors" since they are offering member to member services and not just trying to sell items.

However, leaving the "representative of an entity" I feel would cover everyone else on the forum here as an individual here to make profits, for example (please don't hate me examples, I <3 u guys) i3oilermaker is representing techkeys, notchka is representing keypop, feng/qtan are representing their eBay stores. This would exclude members such as the ones listed above, and other members such as yourself, samwisekoi, who just run the odd GB for geekhack members, not to represent their own storefront, while still including people who are obviously vendors and representatives of their stores.

Another thing that slightly bothers me is 2.b, it seems as if you guys could target someone who is in violation of 1.b as an individual running a keycap set GB, and require them to donate or face these strict Vendor terms. Obviously that's an exaggeration of what could happen, but it seems as if it could be used if the "Individual" part is left in 1.b.

Obviously these are just some examples, I could probably come up with more. I'd just like to see some clarification of 1.b and I think my proposed solution of removing the "Individual" part would definitely help me feel better, and hopefully other members of the community, feel better about these new VTOS.

If you have any clarifications, I have a tough time explaining things in my head to words, so feel free to ask me to clarify anything.

So anyone who sells a CC for the usual ~$50-$150 is a vendor? (rule 1.b)


--- Quote from: metalliqaz on Thu, 23 May 2013, 20:27:28 ---So anyone who sells a CC for the usual ~$50-$150 is a vendor? (rule 1.b)

--- End quote ---

I just ran a gb for the lzgh and I helped with the shipping of the gundam in the USA. Thats all I did. No profit. kinda in the negative.

People were calling you out for two reasons,
1) you belong to Redline, which was kicked from OTD/KBDMania for profiting on the AIKON
2) despite not making money, you are part of their represented interests.


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