Rewritte SPAM criteria

[Mandolin]

I was sanctioned with several warnings as I was pointed as spamming, I think I didn't do anything to transgrede the big book. I did my community interactions as anyone else.

I want the TOS or forum etiquette post to state clearly some quantitative criteria, in the grounds of not allowing unfare harassment...
Ratio post/day, minimum number of characters per post? no urls and smileys alone? Do not post in threads older than 120 days?

People got all touchy about me posting frequently, but that shouldn't be an issue I think.

Also I don't see nothing wrong with starting a sale inmediatly after reaching the 60th post, if not, what's the point on the rule at all? it should state that the classifieds then needs the user to be registered 90 days prior posting or something, if everyone is going to witch hunt the new user.

[tjcaustin]

Actually, that's curious to me, too.  It's not like you do the typical race to 60 to sell something and never come back again, everything that I see adds to the discussions you participated in.

Hm.

[esoomenona]

Hmm, maybe a time limit in conjunction with a post limit is a good idea for posting in the Classifieds. Good idea!

[hashbaz]

I won't speak for boost, as he is the one who did the warnings and deletions, but my understanding is that he felt your last few posts to get to 60 were obvious spams.  It wasn't the post count per day, or the fact that you posted a sale thread right after hitting 60.

I'd encourage you to PM him about it.

[mushupork]

Time constraint - I posted to that effect last fall ... http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33574.msg656502#msg656502

  - Will the forum software allow a time trigger?
  - Would a time restriction mean that someone has to PM the mods for permission? (That would be a headache.)

There are a lot of WTB and WTT posts in the classifieds.  The 60 post restriction (arguably) can be gamed but more importantly I think an unintended consequence of the post limit means a new person cannot even post an ad that they want to BUY something they read about in the forums.

[Mandolin]

I won't speak for boost, as he is the one who did the warnings and deletions, but my understanding is that he felt your last few posts to get to 60 were obvious spams.  It wasn't the post count per day, or the fact that you posted a sale thread right after hitting 60.

I'd encourage you to PM him about it.

I talked it through with him and have nothing to argue. It's the duty of the mods to get the spam out of the game, but my problem with the situation is at a higher level: mods also need a criteria based choice, and it's not clear, and it should be for everyone. I could for instance with a proxy and various accounts flare some user I don't like as a spammer and it'll get through because there's too much land given free away to interpret. It musn't be only me that's been subject to this ambivalent rule set, others will drown in the future if appropriate measures are not taken...

[hashbaz]

I agree that the 60-post rule is less than ideal.  The intent is to force people to become part of the community before they participate in buying and selling, which I don't think is an unreasonable goal.  We don't want to become craigslist for keyboards.

The problem of course is that a post limit creates an incentive to spam.  And what constitutes a spam post can't be nailed down.  In my mind it's a combination of content and frequency and an assumed motivation of something other than contributing to discussion (in this case, the motivation of getting to 60 posts).  I don't think that can be codified clearly; it's always going to be a judgment call.

[Mandolin]

I agree that the 60-post rule is less than ideal.  The intent is to force people to become part of the community before they participate in buying and selling, which I don't think is an unreasonable goal.  We don't want to become craigslist for keyboards.

The problem of course is that a post limit creates an incentive to spam.  And what constitutes a spam post can't be nailed down.  In my mind it's a combination of content and frequency and an assumed motivation of something other than contributing to discussion (in this case, the motivation of getting to 60 posts).  I don't think that can be codified clearly; it's always going to be a judgment call.

I understand, that's an issue at legislature around the world and the reason why computers haven't taken the place of judges as of this moment.
Though, you should consider adding 15 days waiting or more since registration to under classifieds should reduce spam enough.
I think you could program a bot to wait those days, or post some posts per day, but that's unusual.

[jdcarpe]

I'm of the opinion that we should have both a post count limit and a waiting period before a user is allowed to post a thread in the classifieds. And that all threads in the classifieds have to be approved by a mod/admin. Maybe charge a nominal fee as donation to the site to list something for sale. And no auctions allowed on the site.

[The_Ed]

A fee to sell something?... This isn't Ebay, and paypal already gets a cut.

[i3oilermaker]

In my opinion, spam on GeekHack is any post that is made purely for the sake up increasing you post count.   This is obvious to me, typically with the new member rush to 60, when you see the last 10 posts were by the same person and they all add nothing to the topic. 

While this is a Keyboard forum, and think that most posts should be constructive and keyboard related, I am all about an off-topic conversation, but when a "Lets get to 1 million posts" thread shows up it makes me le sigh.

[esoomenona]

Maybe we could transfer money through geekhack somehow? Somehow that they could take that cut that PayPal does as donation toward the site. Though I don't imagine they wish to get into the whole disputing situations, so most likely not something that would happen.

[jdcarpe]

A fee to sell something?... This isn't Ebay, and paypal already gets a cut.

Pass the fee on to the buyer. Or whatever. But if you're going to conduct monetary transactions, facilitated by this forum, you should have to contribute something toward maintaining the forum. Which reminds me, I need to make a donation.

[SmallFry]

In my opinion, spam on GeekHack is any post that is made purely for the sake up increasing you post count.

What yew trying to say?

[IPT]

A fee to sell something?... This isn't Ebay, and paypal already gets a cut.

Pass the fee on to the buyer. Or whatever. But if you're going to conduct monetary transactions, facilitated by this forum, you should have to contribute something toward maintaining the forum. Which reminds me, I need to make a donation.

this would only work if GH guarantees all transactions, which they don't.

[jdcarpe]

 So by accepting a fee and requiring a mod/admin to approve every thread in the classifieds, you are saying that GH would be giving implied approval of the item being offered, and tacit approval of the seller as well, that they won't screw you over?

Hmm, you may be right. I hadn't thought of it that way.

[tjcaustin]

Keep in mind that this is something I've not looked into, but I'm fairly certain that the classifieds ToS could be worded to remove any liability/approval thoughts from geekhack, the forum.  But that may only really hold water in cases where there's something rented like a cart or booth in a mall