So, abortion can now be restricted in the US

[fohat.digs]

My guess is that the majority side in the court made the leak, so that the country could stew about it for a month and then just shrug it off when it happened as "old news".

[tp4tissue]

it's not a solution to the underlying problem of recklessly promiscuity.

it's like banning nicotine patches..  the net effect is inconsequential relative to the complete cessation of all cultural mechanisms for moderation of hedonism.

As is, abortion has been weaponized by both sides as a political buzz word, they couldn't care less about women's rights as they ROB EVERYONE BLIND economically.

Democrats care as little about doing anything about it as the Repoops.

SUPPORT Unionization, that's the only way to stick it to 'um.  this abortion thing is a distraction from the more important issue of income inequality..  /Picking our battles.

[fohat.digs]

The right to privacy is the basis for many of the laws and prohibitions that keep various governments out of people's lives.

In this decision, Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas expressed disdain (both implicit and explicit) for the 14th amendment itself.

 

[noisyturtle]

Another Civil War any year now.

[fohat.digs]

Another Civil War any year now.

No, due to lack of interest.

It remains to be seen whether enough Democratic voters will even turn out to break the Republican stranglehold on the country.

[noisyturtle]

Another Civil War any year now.

No, due to lack of interest.

It remains to be seen whether enough Democratic voters will even turn out to break the Republican stranglehold on the country.

You sort of targeted the issue. Conservatives are toxic, but very active. Dems are ineffectual and lazy, but still want change.
No one wins, and we all lose.

[fohat.digs]

Republicans are toxic and we all lose.

Fixed that for you.

[butre]

I think abortion should be mandatory.

[Leslieann]

it's not a solution to the underlying problem of recklessly promiscuity.

it's like banning nicotine patches..  the net effect is inconsequential relative to the complete cessation of all cultural mechanisms for moderation of hedonism.

As is, abortion has been weaponized by both sides as a political buzz word, they couldn't care less about women's rights as they ROB EVERYONE BLIND economically.

Democrats care as little about doing anything about it as the Repoops.

SUPPORT Unionization, that's the only way to stick it to 'um.  this abortion thing is a distraction from the more important issue of income inequality..  /Picking our battles.[/size][/color]

How are you still single? /s

[tp4tissue]

How are you still single? /s

[SBJ]

SUPPORT Unionization, that's the only way to stick it to 'um.  this abortion thing is a distraction from the more important issue of income inequality..  /Picking our battles.

Women potentially losing the right to do what they want with their bodies is not just a distraction dude. It's a massive step backwards.

[Findecanor]

I think abortion should be mandatory.

Much too often when I hear about the politics over there across the pond, I think the same thing ...

Those are times when I have to remind myself that there are reasonable people over there too, only that those are not the ones who are shouting the loudest.

[tp4tissue]

Women potentially losing the right to do what they want with their bodies is not just a distraction dude. It's a massive step backwards.

yes, it is a setback, but RELATIVE to income inequality, it's a distraction. Get the money, then they can't tell you what to do.

The fact that someone else can MESS WITH YOUR RIGHTS, is precisely because they're Richer than you, and monopolize the right to violence.

Unionization is the the way forward for ALL RIGHTs  not just these narrow ones.

[chyros]

it's not a solution to the underlying problem of recklessly promiscuity.

Sorry, WHAT?! xD

Did you actually just say that? xD

[fohat.digs]

when I hear about the politics over there across the pond

Those are times when I have to remind myself that there are reasonable people over there too

I do hope that I am included in that group.
Whatever your frustrations are, mine are much greater. I live in a "red state" and all 4 of my siblings are solid members of "the Right" and I have a lot of trouble being around them. I haven't even spoken to my youngest brother (except to say the two words "Hello, B_" once at Thanksgiving at my sister's) since shortly after the 2020 election - when he expressed support for armed conflict to support Trump.

the underlying problem of recklessly promiscuity

Did you actually just say that?

Did you forget the vast number of past and present girlfriends that TP4 must juggle in his life?

[chyros]

the underlying problem of recklessly promiscuity

Did you actually just say that?

Did you forget the vast number of past and present girlfriends that TP4 must juggle in his life?

Oh yes, I must've forgotten that, silly me .

[tp4tissue]

Sorry, WHAT?! xD

Did you actually just say that? xD

In animal models, when the peril of HUNGER is removed, they enter a hedonistic spiral, such that their mechanism for "Decision Making" becomes dis-regulated.  The normal behaviors that would've been trained given the constraints of normal seeking/expansion/nesting/eating/mate selection/mating are broken.   

Some males become hyper-secsual, some not at all,  females fail to rear their offspring, left to die, some groups of females take up fortifications away from males all together,  the population dies out despite continuous food supply and vast empty spaces for nesting.

Reckless promiscuity is a trait of behavioral sink. It is the thorough decoupling of the mating behavioral process from its intended purpose.  This is not only a physicality,  it is also a set of mental programs that are disrupted.   It is not that it puts the "single persons" in danger, it puts the SPECIES in Peril because normal programs for (a sustained family) no longer function.

Humans are luckily not mice, and can be taught/programmed through education.  but if the bulk of society is under_educated, we face very much the same perils as in the animal model.   

We have large swaths of broken families, orphans, famine, obesity,   all characteristic of behavioral sink,  ALL the while, we've got the technology for more food than we could ever eat.

We're at the point of ecosystem collapse, yes, there's work there too,  but from within, our behavioral pathology needs significant re_training to minimize the incoming hedonistic disaster.


This rework takes time, this time can only come from higher wages, and fewer work hours. (Unionization)

You can't expect people working today's hours not to just get drunk and sleep afterwards. If we want people to play piano and read books, they have to have far more space AND requisite temperance to AVOID the rapid endgame choices, drugs/secs/alcohol,  <these options are pleasurable but have low educational value.>

[fohat.digs]

If we want people to play piano and read books, they have to have far more space

Humans are unique to have "inner lives" that can today be generally divorced from their immediate survival efforts.

In the animal world, it generally manifests so that in times of plenty a greater proportion of males are born to increase genetic diversity and improve the gene pool overall, while in times of famine more females are born in sheer desperation for survival, assuming that some minimal pool of sperm donors will still be available.

The Industrial Revolution and improvements in food production decoupled the direct personal food=survival equation and far too many humans are now able to engage in the rampant promiscuity you describe, unfortunately rather than using their "free time" for intellectual improvement.

Oh yes, and also in the obsessive and competitive pursuit of infinite wealth and power. Studies have repeatedly shown that most personalities fall into the 2 categories of "competitors" and "co-operators" and while the ancient world rewarded the co-operators (out of necessity), the modern world is showering reward on the competitors.

[tp4tissue]

It's never any 1 fix, it's the whole of society that is dysfunctional.

Moving forward, a solid step is unionization, which will put more time on the side of the populace.

[chyros]

Sorry, WHAT?! xD

Did you actually just say that? xD

In animal models, when the peril of HUNGER is removed, they enter a hedonistic spiral, such that their mechanism for "Decision Making" becomes dis-regulated.  The normal behaviors that would've been trained given the constraints of normal seeking/expansion/nesting/eating/mate selection/mating are broken.   

Some males become hyper-secsual, some not at all,  females fail to rear their offspring, left to die, some groups of females take up fortifications away from males all together,  the population dies out despite continuous food supply and vast empty spaces for nesting.

Reckless promiscuity is a trait of behavioral sink. It is the thorough decoupling of the mating behavioral process from its intended purpose.  This is not only a physicality,  it is also a set of mental programs that are disrupted.   It is not that it puts the "single persons" in danger, it puts the SPECIES in Peril because normal programs for (a sustained family) no longer function.

Humans are luckily not mice, and can be taught/programmed through education.  but if the bulk of society is under_educated, we face very much the same perils as in the animal model.   

We have large swaths of broken families, orphans, famine, obesity,   all characteristic of behavioral sink,  ALL the while, we've got the technology for more food than we could ever eat.

We're at the point of ecosystem collapse, yes, there's work there too,  but from within, our behavioral pathology needs significant re_training to minimize the incoming hedonistic disaster.


This rework takes time, this time can only come from higher wages, and fewer work hours. (Unionization)

You can't expect people working today's hours not to just get drunk and sleep afterwards. If we want people to play piano and read books, they have to have far more space AND requisite temperance to AVOID the rapid endgame choices, drugs/secs/alcohol,  <these options are pleasurable but have low educational value.>

Dude, you legit 1-on-1 sound like some sort of evangelical priest or missionary politician .

Sex is a part of life, deal with it .

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 is strongly agnostic. 

There clearly IS a basic framework for functional animal societies.  Tp4 is not against change, but there are limits which the ecosystem will not support.

A person can eat themselves into a heart attack, every country eating themselves into a heart attack will destroy the entire biosphere, it is not in the interest of "anyone".     We have unchecked hedonism in every facet of human pursuit.

We boomers thought the world was unlimited, we were wrong.

[jamster]

Several years ago, we had to decide where my family would live, and where my children would grow up. The US was removed from that list for several very good reasons at the time, and nothing I have seen in the past five years has led me to question this decision.

As is, abortion has been weaponized by both sides as a political buzz word, they couldn't care less about women's rights as they ROB EVERYONE BLIND economically.

Democrats care as little about doing anything about it as the Repoops.

SUPPORT Unionization, that's the only way to stick it to 'um.  this abortion thing is a distraction from the more important issue of income inequality..  /Picking our battles.

Most of the time I read your posts with bemused tolerance, but you really come out with some grossly offensive, self-indulgent, absolute bollocks sometimes.

[tp4tissue]

Most of the time I read your posts with bemused tolerance, but you really come out with some grossly offensive, self-indulgent, absolute bollocks sometimes.

You're completely naive of american politics, the democrats have had multiple years and opportunities to work on this, codify abortion, gun control, they haven't,   Each time, they propose, Vote for us,  then we turn on the spigot,  most promises were not kept.

They're not significantly better than the republicans,   

The most problematic social divide is around income class, not belief. 

These bank errors have always allowed a small group of people both incapable of decision making AND fully insulated from the outcomes of bad decisions  ,   to lead society.

There is no rectification possible until the money swings on the side of the normal populace.  Unionization is the only way to achieve this in developed nations.

The right to abortion is important, RIGHTS are important,  but abortion itself is just 1 example of the RICH messing with the Rights of the poor.     Fixing little pieces of these 1 at a time won't work.  it's like treating every symptom of a disease without curing the disease.

The disease is income inequality,   NO ONE should have so much more money than you that their decisions are above common public interest.   

[fohat.digs]

the democrats have had multiple years and opportunities to work on this

The disease is income inequality

I take issue with your term "opportunities"

Due to the "Great Compromise" in our Constitution, one party (parties were also something which the Founders were adamant should not exist - but actually confusedly encouraged) holding slim majorities in both houses of Congress and the Presidency is still not enough to accomplish real change.

Having a Senate which comprises all states and gives them equal power, along with the hyper-power augmentation "filibuster+cloture" effectively gives a small minority the ability to block anything that they don't like. The simple result is that roughly 3 dozen Republican senators (in a combined Congress of well over 500 members) can prevent laws that bring about any meaningful change.

And to show how bizarre that is, I used to live in the 3rd-largest county in a medium-sized state, and our county alone had a larger population than 4 states (= 8 senators!).

In spite of that colossal handicap, positive societal changes were occasionally able to rise above. In the 1950s desegregation began in earnest, the 1960s saw the establishment of Civil Rights as law and also a "social safety net" was put into place. The early-1970s watched the environment begin to be protected, but in the late-1970s the Radical (+Religious) Right hijacked the Republican Party and put its foot down.

They have succeeded in blocking every attempt to "work on this" with the exception of the Affordable Care Act (itself watered down and flawed, but still extremely popular and effective). Biden's attempts at change, the few that even got through, ended up as mere shadows of what they needed to be.

In hindsight, the Founders' greatest mistake was expecting and depending on an informed and engaged populace. And recent modern "mass media" has taken the concept "informed" and blown it up with the ability to mis-inform and dis-inform.

https://www.businessinsider.com/misinformation-vs-disinformation
 

[noisyturtle]

Can someone explain, in a factual way, how overturning RvW is not a direct violation of separation of church and state.

[Leslieann]

SUPPORT Unionization, that's the only way to stick it to 'um.  this abortion thing is a distraction from the more important issue of income inequality..  /Picking our battles.

Women potentially losing the right to do what they want with their bodies is not just a distraction dude. It's a massive step backwards.

It's WAAAAAAAY worse than people realize.

Our supreme court more or less declared war on our entire Bill Of Rights.
While gay marriage was specifically mentioned as next in line the way the ruling was worded means that pretty much ANYTHING not explicitly stated in our constitution is at risk, birth control, women's right to vote, interracial marriage, hell, even slavery is now open to interpretation under this court. We went back 50 years with this ruling but it's only the start.

[Leslieann]

Can someone explain, in a factual way, how overturning RvW is not a direct violation of separation of church and state.

Because many on the right see the U.S. as a Christian nation, even a birthright of Christians and so there should be no separation.

It doesn't even matter that Thomas Jefferson stated as much.

[fohat.digs]

There is a statement in the Constitution that says something to the effect of "there shall be no religious test for any public office" but the wall of separation was an understanding, not a dictate.

[fohat.digs]

In the Constitution Article 6 :
“no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

In the First Amendment :
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

The part of the 14th Amendment that they don’t like :
“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

and a picture of one of the nice men who wants to control you :

[Surefoot]

In the Constitution Article 6 :
“no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

In the First Amendment :
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

Do you think any of their constituents ever read this ? Or any of their senators and congress people for instance, as many of them show reckless ignorance towards the constitution... Either they do not care, or they do it on purpose (i.e. SCOTUS members, maybe not Kavanaugh, i dont think he ever read it), in order to cater to their fascist agenda.

The part of the 14th Amendment that they don’t like :
“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

There's the thing, you can turn it around and say that abortion is equally illegal now for women and men. Checkmate !

Seen from Europe you guys are going down fast the fascist theocracy road - It's like your senators have seen the Handmaid's Tale and thought it was a good future. It's kinda worrying as this kind of unstability is not going to help a globally tense situation.

[Findecanor]

--

[fohat.digs]

As with much of the seismic shift in US politics in the late 1970s, abortion was not a controversial issue until the Hard Right recognized that it could be used as a wedge issue for political power. As always, the puppet masters in the background were focused solely on insulating themselves from paying taxes, but needed "straw men" to get "the base" energized and turned out to vote for the politicians that they could control.

Those of us who were adults and aware of the social and political situation in the US in the late-1970s saw the Republican Party lurch hard (and quickly) to the right, and recognized the real meaning of a Reagan presidency. Up until that time, even organizations such as the Southern Baptist Convention recognized that the availability of abortion was necessary for women and society, for many reasons.

But it was going to take something dramatic to strip Christian support away from President Jimmy Carter who was almost certainly the most pious and honorable man who ever sat in the Oval Office, and the quintessential Christian. 

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/08/1097514184/how-abortion-became-a-mobilizing-issue-among-the-religious-right

TL;DR -
"In the late 1960s, we have this remarkable issue of Christianity Today, the flagship magazine of American evangelicalism, discussing this question of abortion. And the conclusion is that it's a very complicated moral issue. So there are theologians discussing precisely when ensoulment happens - when does the fetus become an actual life? - and weighing the complicated issues not just in terms of rape and incest, but also the health and well-being of the mother and the family. And, yes, the Southern Baptist Convention comes out in favor of opening up access to abortion in many cases in 1971, and then they reaffirmed that in 1974 and in 1976, so after Roe v. Wade." 

[SBJ]

SUPPORT Unionization, that's the only way to stick it to 'um.  this abortion thing is a distraction from the more important issue of income inequality..  /Picking our battles.

Women potentially losing the right to do what they want with their bodies is not just a distraction dude. It's a massive step backwards.

It's WAAAAAAAY worse than people realize.

Our supreme court more or less declared war on our entire Bill Of Rights.
While gay marriage was specifically mentioned as next in line the way the ruling was worded means that pretty much ANYTHING not explicitly stated in our constitution is at risk, birth control, women's right to vote, interracial marriage, hell, even slavery is now open to interpretation under this court. We went back 50 years with this ruling but it's only the start.

Been reading it all with dread.
Can only imagine what females who are just a bit sane are feeling at the moment.

[fohat.digs]

Can only imagine what females who are just a bit sane are feeling at the moment.

The thing that they should be feeling at the moment is:
"I need to ensure that I, and everybody I know, CASTS THEIR VOTE at every opportunity in every election."

Basically, in the US 1/3 of the population votes Democratic, 1/3 votes Republican, and the last third does not vote.
Research shows that the non-voters lean overwhelmingly democratically, but somehow fail to reach the tipping point of motivation to get out the door.
 

[chyros]

Apparently American women are now mass-removing menstruation apps from their phones because it tracks their cycle (of course) and it can be used in court cases to prove a woman might have had an abortion (US courts have the ability to obtain personal data from services such as this).

sauce (in Dutch): https://www.nu.nl/tech/6209049/veel-amerikaanse-vrouwen-verwijderen-menstruatieapps-na-abortusbesluit.html

[Sintpinty]

Apparently American women are now mass-removing menstruation apps from their phones because it tracks their cycle (of course) and it can be used in court cases to prove a woman might have had an abortion (US courts have the ability to obtain personal data from services such as this).

sauce (in Dutch): https://www.nu.nl/tech/6209049/veel-amerikaanse-vrouwen-verwijderen-menstruatieapps-na-abortusbesluit.html

Yep that’s true .. I feel horrible for them in the us

[noisyturtle]

It's really wild how bad the US got in only 6 years. Shows how weak the population and infrastructure was in the first place.

[Leslieann]

It's really wild how bad the US got in only 6 years. Shows how weak the population and infrastructure was in the first place.

It took 6 years to execute, decades to plan and play out.

I highly recommend reading up on Roger Stone, his company and cohorts.
A spooky amount of those involved have ties to Richard Nixon and election meddling around the world .

[tp4tissue]

The more dangerous issue is the old aphorism, the enemy of my enemy is my friend,  the ru551ans and the republican'ts sitting in a tree, t - r - e - a - s - 0 - n.

[fohat.digs]

decades to plan and play out.

Read up on Paul Weyrich and how the Radical Right co-opted the Religious Right in 1978-1979.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/20/734303135/throughline-traces-evangelicals-history-on-the-abortion-issue