I don't know about you guys but my pants feel awfully tight.
So assuming GMK comes back and says, "Yeah, sure buddy. We can do this," I'd like to just vote for RGB (1.5x of course) and Red Esc. Pretty sure that will generate the highest MOQ right off bat!
I hope these come to fruition. Maybe also an orange dolch or even a regular dolch set should easily reach MOQ if they're looking for full setsOH MY ORANGE DOLCH~ DONT TOUCH MY COLOR~
I hope these come to fruition. Maybe also an orange dolch or even a regular dolch set should easily reach MOQ if they're looking for full sets
Sure red esc and rgb are great starter candidate... but the possibilities...Show Image(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/7099436627_53c2fbddc3.jpg)
Coffee on Cream! (http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/e617bd37.jpg) Or some other perfect combination...
Image shamelessly stolen from lysols classified thread
So assuming GMK comes back and says, "Yeah, sure buddy. We can do this," I'd like to just vote for RGB (1.5x of course) and Red Esc. Pretty sure that will generate the highest MOQ right off bat!
Don't judge me brooI don't know about you guys but my pants feel awfully tight.
It must be your skinny jeans.
also would vote for this. But i'll keep my boner in my pants until we know its a possibility and not just a teaseSo assuming GMK comes back and says, "Yeah, sure buddy. We can do this," I'd like to just vote for RGB (1.5x of course) and Red Esc. Pretty sure that will generate the highest MOQ right off bat!
I with you on that brah
Agreed. I would never wish blue balls upon anyone.also would vote for this. But i'll keep my boner in my pants until we know its a possibility and not just a teaseSo assuming GMK comes back and says, "Yeah, sure buddy. We can do this," I'd like to just vote for RGB (1.5x of course) and Red Esc. Pretty sure that will generate the highest MOQ right off bat!
I with you on that brah
OH MY ORANGE DOLCH~ DONT TOUCH MY COLOR~
So assuming GMK comes back and says, "Yeah, sure buddy. We can do this," I'd like to just vote for RGB (1.5x of course) and Red Esc. Pretty sure that will generate the highest MOQ right off bat!Agreed.
I just got the info in email last night from Cherry itself, so I can only assume it's good. I have contact to GMK for more information about what is possible, costs, moq etc. I will keep posted.
right... bro
OH MY ORANGE DOLCH~ DONT TOUCH MY COLOR~
they are going to touch it, until it they completely destroy any sense of value.
only one I care for.I hope these come to fruition. Maybe also an orange dolch or even a regular dolch set should easily reach MOQ if they're looking for full setsOH MY ORANGE DOLCH~ DONT TOUCH MY COLOR~
you sound like Dan now lolright... bro
OH MY ORANGE DOLCH~ DONT TOUCH MY COLOR~
they are going to touch it, until it they completely destroy any sense of value.
only one I care for.I hope these come to fruition. Maybe also an orange dolch or even a regular dolch set should easily reach MOQ if they're looking for full setsOH MY ORANGE DOLCH~ DONT TOUCH MY COLOR~
not because I like it. But because you'll stop posting it every ****ing time you get a chance.
There is EVERYTHING to drool over. ALLL THE pieces of plastic..FTFY.
There is EVERYTHING to drool over. ALLL THE pieces of plastic..FTFY.
We could probably reach higher MOQ's with GMK too, since it's probably of interest both here and at DT and all the Korean forums, and on top of that probably a few other European forums (I think a lot of Europeans hesitate to participate in group buys because of the lack of or high price of ISO sets). :)
Those orange and charcol ones are available to buy on German ebay right now. SKIData keyboard (http://www.ebay.de/itm/SKIDATA-KC-450-BK-MECHANISCHE-TASTATUR-MECHANICAL-KEYBOARD-CHERRY-KEYS-NORWAY-/310517870165?pt=DE_Computing_Tastaturen_Keypads&hash=item484c4eae55), there is some with Norwegian layout left ;P
puhaha~ bros~
i am satisfied with pioneer of orange dolch.
i hope you drool over with yours. it can be.
i want toxic green on charcoal. it can be my dream keyset. (orange and lime)
Those orange and charcol ones are available to buy on German ebay right now. SKIData keyboard (http://www.ebay.de/itm/SKIDATA-KC-450-BK-MECHANISCHE-TASTATUR-MECHANICAL-KEYBOARD-CHERRY-KEYS-NORWAY-/310517870165?pt=DE_Computing_Tastaturen_Keypads&hash=item484c4eae55), there is some with Norwegian layout left ;P
Me needs ANSI.....and ANSI only.
The symbols also seem to be different :( :( :(
EDIT: LOL skidata made watches too?
puhaha~ bros~
i am satisfied with pioneer of orange dolch.
i hope you drool over with yours. it can be.
i want toxic green on charcoal. it can be my dream keyset. (orange and lime)Show Image(http://cast.thirdage.com/files/originals/orange-lime-lemon.jpg)
no. And if you truly believe that, I feel sorry for you.There is EVERYTHING to drool over. ALLL THE pieces of plastic..FTFY.
What's the point of having a forum, then? Just buy all the s**t you want, and keep it to yourself. No need to share with anyone. That would be ideal for you.the point of a forum is to show off to others? Got it. Here I thought it was to do stuff as a community not "look at the 6 new boards I got please praise me and tell me how much you envy me"
You should be out riding bikes, not on the forum hating on everything, bro.
the point of a forum is to show off to others? Got it. Here I thought it was to do stuff as a community not "look at the 6 new boards I got please praise me and tell me how much you envy me"
I'm at work on break, not on my bike.
the word hate gets thrown around too easily.
that's your opinion and you're free to have it. Just as how I can ignore it you can ignore me.the point of a forum is to show off to others? Got it. Here I thought it was to do stuff as a community not "look at the 6 new boards I got please praise me and tell me how much you envy me"
I'm at work on break, not on my bike.
the word hate gets thrown around too easily.
Actually, yes. That is the point. Whether it be keycaps, keyboards, a project someone is working on or a discussion. You are sharing ideas, interests, etc.
It's part of the community, and because you happen to not like it, yes you are 'hating' on it. How about; I hate your opinions, I don't think you should post them anymore. Because that's essentially what you are saying.
I don't know about you guys but my pants feel awfully tight.
SP uses a thinner plastic, with rounded edges.
Should I possibly look into these guys for the upcoming moogle gb?
Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2
Sure red esc and rgb are great starter candidate... but the possibilities...Show Image(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/7099436627_53c2fbddc3.jpg)
you guys are underestimating the MOQ, not many places are nice like SP that deal with such a small MOQ as ours.
I'm not saying it could be crazy high but I also don't think it would be that small
If this is true.. does that mean SCOOPED F AND J KEYS o.o
personally i'm more interested in blank doubleshots
lol blank DS? what's the point?
lol blank DS? what's the point?
the ultimate ninja set
Does this mean we will be able to get brand new exact copy keycaps of the Red Esc keycap that has been going for $250 lately and vintage looking black on beige keycaps that go for quite a lot on ebay?i hope more than a hundred obama posters that this is the case.
blank double shot, does that mean the first shot is white and the second shot is white? wow, you guys are genius. you guys increased the price for no reason!
blank double shot, does that mean the first shot is white and the second shot is white? wow, you guys are genius. you guys increased the price for no reason!
insta-win :D
blank double shot, does that mean the first shot is white and the second shot is white? wow, you guys are genius. you guys increased the price for no reason!
insta-win :D
I like this idea, double shot blanks are great. I bet they would ever so slightly have the legend visible.
If this is true.. does that mean SCOOPED F AND J KEYS o.oI'm hoping for this.
Sure red esc and rgb are great starter candidate... but the possibilities...Show Image(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/7099436627_53c2fbddc3.jpg)
Yeah dat purple. I believe the consensus on this board is that it was a demo of some kind. I don't think anyone really knows much about it.
That is nice. Really nice.
It looks like a yellow I could live with :)
And a blue, actually.
And red.
And green.
And, what the heck, the purple too :)
So are keycaps like this available anywhere?
lol blank DS? what's the point?
the ultimate ninja set
Double shot blanks, as seen in the middle key. Image taken from kbdfr on DT, or wherever he got it from.Show Image(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/5115)
Well why would the first shot be the same grey as in the others? Doesn't make sense that both undersides show a grey first shot.
this one time i went to band camp and played the trumpet.
S = Sentence, E = Exclamation, NP = Noun Phrase, VP = Verb Phrase, RC = Relative Clause, V = Verb, N = Noun, PN = Possessive Noun, ADJ = Adjective, ADV = Adverb, AEA = Adjective-Enhancing Adverb, OVA = Object-Verb Adjective.
Stop counting your chickens before they hatch people... 120 posts in less than 24 hours on such a long shot is ridiculous... Stop posting until there is an official response, then complain/throw money...Agreeing with you twice within a few days?! Crazy
Just a random Q out of curiosity, if there where enough people, couldn't we simply have 'our' own molds made? Having worked on PLCs in and around plastic injectors etc these companies make huge ranges of things with plastics, so with our own molds in theory we could then just have anyone make the caps... Is this possible or is double shotting alot more complicated?? (Still learnif about the manufacturing process)
Just a random Q out of curiosity, if there where enough people, couldn't we simply have 'our' own molds made? Having worked on PLCs in and around plastic injectors etc these companies make huge ranges of things with plastics, so with our own molds in theory we could then just have anyone make the caps... Is this possible or is double shotting alot more complicated?? (Still learnif about the manufacturing process)
complicated
and custom molds will cost a ton
Stop counting your chickens before they hatch people... 120 posts in less than 24 hours on such a long shot is ridiculous... Stop posting until there is an official response, then complain/throw money...Agreeing with you twice within a few days?! Crazy
Same. Going to see a lot of sadfaces when their dreams get crushed.
Same. Going to see a lot of sadfaces when their dreams get crushed.
I have a dream.... :p
12.06.12
Expanding of our existing portfolio
In order to meet the increasing demand for individual input systems, we have expanded our portfolio by manufacturing keycaps. With this step we are able to offer our clients a whole new level of flexibility.
For more details please see our performance sheet.
We will gladly consider your individual request.
Well, 2nd run of red esc was only like 1000, and similar for doubleshot RGB so I am not too worried. Though that was back when Cherry was still ordering doubleshots and it was through them... but i doubt the moq would have changed too much in a couple year.
Even tough they accepted making a few for Cherry, we may not get the same deal since there is no potential of us ever ordering many, or continuously ordering large amounts of other kinds on the side. Thus, they might have accepted a low MOQ from Cherry but not from us.
Even tough they accepted making a few for Cherry, we may not get the same deal since there is no potential of us ever ordering many, or continuously ordering large amounts of other kinds on the side. Thus, they might have accepted a low MOQ from Cherry but not from us.
But I thought the redescs weren’t ordered by Cherry ?
Dear Mr. Wang,
thank you very much for your request. You are right, we have the original Cherry tools for two-shot-molded MX caps.
Can you give me a more detailed description of what are you looking for?
Kind regards
Christoph Kredler
For all the dream crushers, I send you this:Awesome. So the tools they bought are from Cherry?Quote from: GMK ElectronicsDear Mr. Wang,
thank you very much for your request. You are right, we have the original Cherry tools for two-shot-molded MX caps.
Can you give me a more detailed description of what are you looking for?
Kind regards
Christoph Kredler
For all the dream crushers, I send you this:Quote from: GMK ElectronicsDear Mr. Wang,
thank you very much for your request. You are right, we have the original Cherry tools for two-shot-molded MX caps.
Can you give me a more detailed description of what are you looking for?
Kind regards
Christoph Kredler
From their website:Quote12.06.12
Expanding of our existing portfolio
In order to meet the increasing demand for individual input systems, we have expanded our portfolio by manufacturing keycaps. With this step we are able to offer our clients a whole new level of flexibility.
For more details please see our performance sheet.
We will gladly consider your individual request.
Looks like they just got into the keycap game, after manufacturing keyboards since about 1992. This news release was dated 12 June of this year. I wonder if they bought the molds and equipment from Cherry Corp.? CONFIRMED Or maybe they are just now open to custom orders, after making standard Cherry Corp. stuff? They do state "individual request" there, so maybe MOQ will not be an issue. Or maybe they mean "unique." So much speculation so far.
For all the dream crushers, I send you this:Quote from: GMK ElectronicsDear Mr. Wang,
thank you very much for your request. You are right, we have the original Cherry tools for two-shot-molded MX caps.
Can you give me a more detailed description of what are you looking for?
Kind regards
Christoph Kredler
man i hope the pricing won't be crazy like SPTheir pricing ain't crazy. We just order so few that the fixed costs are distributed on too few sets.
man i hope the pricing won't be crazy like SPTheir pricing ain't crazy. We just order so few that the fixed costs are distributed on too few sets.
MOQ is not a good term to use. Why? Well, because if the company says that you'll have to order a minimum of 10000 sets at $10 each, then they will be just as fine with you ordering 1000 sets at $100 each. It makes no difference to them. They get paid just as much, and for all they care, they can throw away the extra 9000 sets and pretend the order was according to the first case.
MOQ is a term which is thrown around a lot and it is some arbitrary chosen point where the seller believes that increase in cost per set will discourage the buyer. If you pay enough, they would agree to making a single set, I am sure of it. Just keep this in mind.
Good news. You must have sent a better worded questions than me since they never replied.
man i hope the pricing won't be crazy like SP
This is really exciting news... I'm envisioning Red Escs and RGB sets, as well as REAL Moogle Kits with the right colours and the right thickness. And beyond that, maybe one day sets of those green on white or Olivetti doubleshots could be made.
But for now, can't wait for updates! I wonder how this will affect the "Geekhack market" if they are able to make the rarer caps for us.
IF we really can have new key sets made in correct Cherry profile, with correct legends and colors, by Cherry's own OEM manufacturer, I foresee the practical end of the "rare Cherry key cap" market. No more $500 dyesub sets or $250 red Esc's. People who purchased Cherry key caps as an investment opportunity, rather than something to use on a keyboard, will be sorely disappointed when the bottom falls out of the collector/secondhand market. Why pay a premium for "vintage," when we can have the exact same thing newly produced?
I am already getting my hopes up for Dolch sets, black on beige sets, white on black sets, as well as our own color creations, all at group buy prices.
Why settle only with Red and RGB?
I don't see any particular reason to just stick to those keys. We need full sets :p
Because Red Esc and RGB are what most people cross forum will want, and will allow for better numbers. More people are going to want those caps than a full dolch set, for example.
Because Red Esc and RGB are what most people cross forum will want, and will allow for better numbers. More people are going to want those caps than a full dolch set, for example.
IDK as far as the a full keyset goes Dolch might be most in demand...
Their pricing ain't crazy. We just order so few that the fixed costs are distributed on too few sets.
Oh yes and of course Dolch...
Sure there will be a good demand for modifiers kits, and esc and etc, but I think you may be surprised with how many people would like full new sets.
There is a lot of different tastes. My guess is Dolch, and black on white/beige would probably be the biggest for full sets. Though COLOR X on white/beige options could be quite huge as well.Agree
Some color still might not happen depend on what is needed number wise to do a run at reasonable price. There is a lot of different tastes. My guess is Dolch, and black on white/beige would probably be the biggest for full sets. Though COLOR X on white/beige options could be quite huge as well.
Oh no, so means its a no-go for that fabulous cherry made unicorn vomit board?
Hmm :( i know there should be another individual which would be very interested in this too, so that makes it 2 sets.Oh no, so means its a no-go for that fabulous cherry made unicorn vomit board?
We don't know enough yet to say. All we know at this point is that they have the original Cherry molds. We don't know anything yet about pricing structure or colors.
(red on charcoal/Red Alert v2.0 anyone?)
There will be big demand for black on white/beige full set for sure. It is almost impossible to find a good condtion full set with 1.25 mods and fulltouch caps lock. Surely many would like a nice new set instead of a patched together used set. Same goes for white on black, but maybe not as much as it is still possible to find ok price on NOS sets. White on black 1.5 mods are not easy to find though at the moment and I know there is going to be some good demand for those for certain.
Also many other vintage set have strange keysize and layout, so recreate with modern layout may be better to some than just getting patch kits.
I agree though, we need to start polling, and then just go with a few of most popular item to keep it manageable. I would hate for it to get nuts like group buy round 4 and take a year. I would also like to suggest the avoidance of having a bunch of add on option, just make all the keys in the set by default so it dosen't become a confusing mess. All set should just get 1.25 and 1.5 mods, both style caps lock, etc. Better to have them on hand in case you change board in the future.
For all the dream crushers, I send you this:I thought we knew this already and the only concern was the MOQQuote from: GMK ElectronicsDear Mr. Wang,
thank you very much for your request. You are right, we have the original Cherry tools for two-shot-molded MX caps.
Can you give me a more detailed description of what are you looking for?
Kind regards
Christoph Kredler
le dream crusher! I think we were in some preliminary discussions as to whether their tooling was IN FACT Cherry OEM stuff, and this confirmed it. The next email from them should address MOQ, capabilities, colors, etc.
I thought I saw somewhere in a German Cherry video that China was their primary customer....This one?
I thought I saw somewhere in a German Cherry video that China was their primary customer....The Video just says Asia, not a specific country.
This is really exciting news... I'm envisioning Red Escs and RGB sets, as well as REAL Moogle Kits with the right colours and the right thickness. And beyond that, maybe one day sets of those green on white or Olivetti doubleshots could be made.
But for now, can't wait for updates! I wonder how this will affect the "Geekhack market" if they are able to make the rarer caps for us.
You missed my post in the other thread:IF we really can have new key sets made in correct Cherry profile, with correct legends and colors, by Cherry's own OEM manufacturer, I foresee the practical end of the "rare Cherry key cap" market. No more $500 dyesub sets or $250 red Esc's. People who purchased Cherry key caps as an investment opportunity, rather than something to use on a keyboard, will be sorely disappointed when the bottom falls out of the collector/secondhand market. Why pay a premium for "vintage," when we can have the exact same thing newly produced?
I am already getting my hopes up for Dolch sets, black on beige sets, white on black sets, as well as our own color creations, all at group buy prices.
I for one would object to unicorn vomit (rainbow) on original cherry keycap manufacturing equipment... just doesn't seem right...
Yes, I too love the purple. I want to press for a modifiers set (tab, caps, shifts, ctrls, alts, enter, backspace, wins and menu) with that purple personally. A full set may be a bit too much for me, but I could definitely get down with the accent set.go big or go home
I love this video, but hell, I can't help but think it's a little too "extreme" (can't find any better words lol) for a keyboard and switch manufacturer.
[thread]
Ha!
Purple mods with yellow alphanums. =)
[/thread]
[thread]
Ha!
Purple mods with yellow alphanums. =)
[/thread]
I suppose everyone has different tastes, but to me doing something that matches a vintage set doesn't make much sense. Sure, people (me included) go out of their way to try and get nice vintage sets... spending lots of money, etc. But it's also due to the scarcity factor. A Dolch set, if I didn't know what it was, is not very attractive to me. (And a white on black, black on beige is very plain... the beige doesn't even match most boards!) I guess I'm in the minority.
Don't get me started on RGB... again, aside from nostalgia, why the heck do people like these?! They're trashy as can be in my opinion. And this is coming from a guy who did ran a big RGB group buy (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20058.msg383055#msg383055) here... I've never considered leaving a set on my keyboard other than to take a picture. Yet, I own a lot of them... no clue why. I guess because it's because that's what people are making.
Again, no offense to people's tastes... I've just been kind of perpetually in shock at the design tastes with these things. My vote would be tasteful color sets. CCnB, whatever... but something new. (Go try to find a CCnG set in the classified! I'd have an easier time finding a NIB vintage set.)
I just hope that we don't try so much to recreate the past. This is (or could be) an opportunity to do something new and great.
My 2 cents, plus tax. I know lots of you disagree.
Feel free to share them with me :))
Yet, I own a lot of them... no clue why. I guess because it's because that's what people are making.
>> Long as you like purple, sall good
Better than Dolch or some vintage replica. :) Sold. Long as it's not too girly... there's already a Valentine set for you folks. ;-)
Not that anyone would care about your objection.
As long as there is a black on yellow (proper, deep yellow) set, I'll be happy ;D
This isn't an order thread... This is a cliff that everyone is jumping off of... Who knows what's below the clouds, but I bet it ain't soft... The pain will only last for an instant though.
You love your yellow :) Soon I'll have yellow caps for topre, won't lie, I like yellow quite a bit as well.
"We acquired the complete MX toolkit from cherry
lol @ the ppl who spent hundreds for a cherry key
YUMMY!! We are getting closer and closer to saying bubye to Signature Plastics.
- Purple on yellow with purple modifiers :D
As you may have already noticed there is a high demand for two-shot molded caps at the moment. This demand is mainly caused by industrial companies, which are our main customers.
At the moment we´ve reached the capacity limit for the production. We are talking about delivery times of 12 weeks and more, even for our major customers.
Maybe I can find a production slot for some special kits soon, but I can´t promise anything yet. As soon if I got any news I let you know.
...potentially one of the biggest revolutions in keyboard keycap history.
Also, as you saw in the previous post, GMK is manufacturing LOTS of keycaps for industrial manufacturers. It will be awesome to see what will be on the market in the next 12+ weeks =)
I'm sitting back and relaxing but why aren't my keycaps here yet!This man is a born comedian. Love it.
JK :p This is awesome news. Big thanks to Lysol The Cherry Sage and DanGWanG The GMK Chosen One
If this takes off, wonder how it would effect SP..They'll realise they should've tried harder to get us what we wanted :p
If this takes off, wonder how it would effect SP..
Would it? Might not be wise for people to put all there eggs in one basket so quickly..If this takes off, wonder how it would effect SP..
This will also blow the cherry replica font fund raising
Would it? Might not be wise for people to put all there eggs in one basket so quickly..If this takes off, wonder how it would effect SP..
This will also blow the cherry replica font fund raising
Holy shiz....
...dolch sets= splooge
...RGB sets= splooge
...cherry red esc keys= lol at everyone who bought them for $250+.
I wonder if they can do F & J nubs instead of scoops.
I don't see why you should feel dumb. You wanted it and that's how much you chose to pay then. How could you have known it would be a possibility to recreate them? And even now, maybe one cap like that isn't a possibility in this venture. Nothing is written yet on this.
I can't tell you how brilliantly exciting this is! Props do Dan and Lysol for getting this going! You're a credit!
See quote in signature to avoid further nuking.
To Lysol and DanGWanG:
Do you think an ES layout could be available?
I don't have any problem with ANSI or different ISO layouts but it makes more sense to me to use keycaps with the correct lettering and symbols. I know many people would appreciate that.
Holy shiz....
...dolch sets= splooge
...RGB sets= splooge
...cherry red esc keys= lol at everyone who bought them for $250+.
I wonder if they can do F & J nubs instead of scoops.
Holy shiz....
...dolch sets= splooge
...RGB sets= splooge
...cherry red esc keys= lol at everyone who bought them for $250+.
I wonder if they can do F & J nubs instead of scoops.
...but only certain things will be chosen based on popularity and viability...
So sorry to say for some of you that will want unusual things for your own special custom layouts, you won't get them so don't even make noise about it.I hope this stays true for EVERYONE
With the ISO sets, I was thinking of doing something like combine all the language that use the most same key together. So maybe do something like combine Italian/Portuguese/Spanish/Swiss for example. Then you may end up with some extra key you don't use for your particular language, but it would make sets simpler and pricing better most likely. May have a need to make some keys like the navigation cluster non nationalized for simplicity, but I hope some small compromises such as that won't put people off too much.
With the ISO sets, I was thinking of doing something like combine all the language that use the most same key together. So maybe do something like combine Italian/Portuguese/Spanish/Swiss for example. Then you may end up with some extra key you don't use for your particular language, but it would make sets simpler and pricing better most likely. May have a need to make some keys like the navigation cluster non nationalized for simplicity, but I hope some small compromises such as that won't put people off too much.
In the mean time they sent me a sample picture.Clear legends.. 8)Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/MX_samples_zpsc3ca5577.jpg)
If this takes off, wonder how it would effect SP..
This will also blow the cherry replica font fund raising
What I actually think it's obvious for me that once everything goes trough there should be an EU based member distributor for EU orders since won't make any sense to send items to USA and then to EU. Having in mind that this would be possible.Exactly my thoughts. I mean, there are quite a few (trustworthy and probably willing) EU based members around here.
the sample pic is just like... omg they picked every keycap nerds dream and put them all in one photo! what a tease!
With the ISO sets, I was thinking of doing something like combine all the language that use the most same key together. So maybe do something like combine Italian/Portuguese/Spanish/Swiss for example. Then you may end up with some extra key you don't use for your particular language, but it would make sets simpler and pricing better most likely. May have a need to make some keys like the navigation cluster non nationalized for simplicity, but I hope some small compromises such as that won't put people off too much.
Why they gotta be man popularities? Why can't they be woman popular?
Alessandro is sexist. /fauxnews
Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/MX_samples_zpsc3ca5577.jpg)
All of this is great news. The colors shown below look fricken amazing. Until we know more details I'm halting the Cherry replica project. If it ends up being scrapped entirely, I'll donate the remaining Red Cherry monies to GH and KBM.
(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/MX_samples_zpsc3ca5577.jpg) (http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/MX_samples_zpsc3ca5577.jpg)
We need to do a white on brown set! ^^
All of this is great news. The colors shown below look fricken amazing. Until we know more details I'm halting the Cherry replica project. If it ends up being scrapped entirely, I'll donate the remaining Red Cherry monies to GH and KBM.
Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/MX_samples_zpsc3ca5577.jpg)
It's certainly a nice brown, if there's such a thing :))
We need to do a white on brown set! ^^
I'm a little annoyed when I read people slating 7bit's group buy. But he's the only one that's been inclusive of regional layouts.
I don't slate his group buy - I slate him!!I'd rather have a community with him than without, I agree I don't know where he gets the energy, but look at what he's doing at the moment, round4 isn't even out the door and he's designing 20 keyboard pcbs! Guess I'm glass half full when it comes to 7bit :)
Seriously though, I think 7bit's biggest problem is simply an excess of optimism and enthusiasm. Or rather, that he hasn't matured enough to realise that yet.
While I know basically nothing, which all but renders my opinion worthless, it makes more sense (as they are at full capacity anyway) to make our first order with them a single cap at one standard profile that will work on all cherry boards.Your opinions not worthless bud, but if your packing hundreds of envelopes to send on with just one keycap in? Or are you better off putting full keyboard sets in there? The amount of effort organising collecting money etc is all similar. So rather do full sets so the efforts worth it.
All for Dolch being the first set made. I guess best to keep it simple and make it the original Dolch set plus Moogle? Or the other way round, Dolch w/ 1.25 mods, center stem, etc. plus separate Tsangan kit a la SP group buys.
Full sets will get everything, all size of modifier, different style of caps lock, etc. We won't be f*cking about with kit this add on that. As for languages I am pretty set on doing it right. There is no reason to do it at all if halfassing it. I have some ideas about rolling most similar language layouts into one kit. This affords both minimize amount of options and avoid some language from possible drop due to too small order. I already gave an example earlier with the Italian/Portuguese/Spanish/Swiss. Same would go for combine US/GB since there are only a few different key. Combine Finnish/Swedish/Norwegian/Danish probably. Still working on making the smartest groupings. Don't like have the extra key, well too bad. But I look at it like this, all the keys you could need you have it, you change your board you are covered.
Some things will be polled, some things will be decided by executive decision by Dan and I. If leave it 100% to the community nothing will get done and we all know it if being honest about it.
Some things will be polled, some things will be decided by executive decision by Dan and I. If leave it 100% to the community nothing will get done and we all know it if being honest about it.
*hoping for german iso stuff*
for now.
Right, GMK made that request as they were being overwhelmed with request for info. They only have so much staff and time to answer questions. Especially when many of them are the same questions. So instead they will answer Dan, and Dan will answer you for now.
I've always thought that including the extra keys is a good idea as it increases the resale value for people who do not have exactly the same layout as you did when you originally bought the keycaps.
Resale value isn't just in a monetary sense!I've always thought that including the extra keys is a good idea as it increases the resale value for people who do not have exactly the same layout as you did when you originally bought the keycaps.
I really don't think increased resale value is something we should be thinking/worried about...
Cheers,
After spending some time reviewing various keyboard layouts, I have some good idea of what I think the best groupings are. Assuming it is cost effective we are pretty likely to take this approach of combinations. The only problem is what to do about some of the non alpha keys. Many nationalized layouts also have different legend for some of these like Bloq Mayús, Strg, Echap, Invio, etc. We could take the easy way and simply choose to ignore and omit these using common 'international' legends or US instead. However as one who enjoys collecting different language layout keysets I feel some of these are the most interesting keys in their respective layout. It would be a shame not to include them, though it will make things very difficult and likely much more costly to do so. There is some huge trade off there to consider.
I am thinking the best way to handle these is to include them in the 'modifiers pack' instead of the full sets.
So sorry to say for some of you that will want unusual things for your own special custom layouts, you won't get them so don't even make noise about it.I hope this stays true for EVERYONE
No price quote has been given out yet still so who knows what the price would be, I hope a full set will run around $80 USD that would be amazingly awesome, as of right nowI've always thought that including the extra keys is a good idea as it increases the resale value for people who do not have exactly the same layout as you did when you originally bought the keycaps.
I really don't think increased resale value is something we should be thinking/worried about...
Cheers,
-brand new black DS will run you $60-$70 this is for 1.5x mods, 1.25x mods costs a bit more
Nah I picked up all my 1.5x sets for $50 give or take, my 1.5x set ran me for $75 iircQuote from: tsangan-brand new black DS will run you $60-$70 this is for 1.5x mods, 1.25x mods costs a bit more
Think you got that backwards =)
Black 1.5 mods are impossible to find in original cherry caps isn't it?(http://i.imgur.com/lAsNa.jpg)
Then you have been out of the market for a long time. The 1.25x mods are still easy to come by...in fact, Reptile just tried to sell me 3x 8113 NIBs for less than $70/each. I can't even find another set of 1.5x/7x mods lolI can still find 1.5x/7x it's not unheard of
Typically it's easiest and cheapest to find black set with 1.25, and beige set with 1.5. Other colorways can vary greatly but most typical 1.5 or something totally odd. People that find the opposite are just lucky/have stupid amount of money to drop, or have some mystery hook up or something. In any case getting new sets made is the easiest way to solve these problems.I guess?
May I suggest that we create a 'standard' language-pack for all the non-English users needs
and always offer it as an option, provided it meets minimum order ?
Like in the 'Dolch'-buys from SP .. I think it was 37 extra caps, covering most European needs ..
(I'm willing to pay real money for those caps, other non-English natives are probably also.
It would be nice to be able to just re-key, instead of having a danish, english and german keyboard)
Typically it's easiest and cheapest to find black set with 1.25, and beige set with 1.5. Other colorways can vary greatly but most typical 1.5 or something totally odd. People that find the opposite are just lucky/have stupid amount of money to drop, or have some mystery hook up or something. In any case getting new sets made is the easiest way to solve these problems.I guess?
Mine was purchased just by searching on google and 2 pages later
http://www.tedss.com/2099001441
3 boards were purchased
Typically it's easiest and cheapest to find black set with 1.25, and beige set with 1.5. Other colorways can vary greatly but most typical 1.5 or something totally odd. People that find the opposite are just lucky/have stupid amount of money to drop, or have some mystery hook up or something. In any case getting new sets made is the easiest way to solve these problems.I guess?
Mine was purchased just by searching on google and 2 pages later
http://www.tedss.com/2099001441
3 boards were purchased
...So then do people constantly hound you for 7x spacebars and 1.5x mods? Or is that just me?...
I started musing on the language kits issue on DT... essentially to cover Nordic and European languages, even allowing for some shared keys, is probably something between 75 and 100 keys (it's about 100 before allowing for shared keys). Any regional modifier texts would be on top of that. So yeah, it all depends on the MOQ.
I started musing on the language kits issue on DT... essentially to cover Nordic and European languages, even allowing for some shared keys, is probably something between 75 and 100 keys (it's about 100 before allowing for shared keys). Any regional modifier texts would be on top of that. So yeah, it all depends on the MOQ.
Forget French AZERTY , Italian, Greek and Spanish, they practically require their own full set to get it right .
[...]
hopefully stuff like that will balance out this community again.
chance to get what you want easily.
yeah right, dinner and sweet talking and you're putty.hopefully stuff like that will balance out this community again.
chance to get what you want easily.
Not me though, thanks to you I'll never be easy to get again!!!
yeah right, dinner and sweet talking and you're putty.hopefully stuff like that will balance out this community again.
chance to get what you want easily.
Not me though, thanks to you I'll never be easy to get again!!!
*cooks dinner*yeah right, dinner and sweet talking and you're putty.hopefully stuff like that will balance out this community again.
chance to get what you want easily.
Not me though, thanks to you I'll never be easy to get again!!!
****.....whatever. At least it's more than nothing.
*cooks dinner*yeah right, dinner and sweet talking and you're putty.hopefully stuff like that will balance out this community again.
chance to get what you want easily.
Not me though, thanks to you I'll never be easy to get again!!!
****.....whatever. At least it's more than nothing.
Forget French AZERTY , Italian, Greek and Spanish, they practically require their own full set to get it right .
How'd you smell that all the way up in Canada?
Perfect candidate to replace red esc if we can do our buy. Obliterate rareness of all the keys!
Obliterate rareness of all the keys!
Hey lysol, can GMK produce the dyesub caps?They only list laser, pad print and doubleshot on their website so I would go with no unless they do but don't advertise it
No, I was pointed to another company by Cherry for dyesub. But we already have imsto who does some pretty nice stuff so I didn't investigate it yet. I put the link in the keycap manufacturing sources thread.The quality of the keys are DEFINITELY not the same
I do as well. I can tell the difference by just touching them, but imsto's cap are still very high quality and it's good enough for me.I guess I'll follow your contact and see what I can find when I have time then.
Can't we get blank PBTs from GMK and have imsto do the dyesub printing?
Can anyone truly confirm EK used GMK and the exact cherry orangey-red? It sure as hell looks like it to me.You expect people to confirm when it just went on sale today?
Yes, they are GMK keys.Or so you think
I wonder just how many hours it will take before they are sold out. I'm gonna guess 4 more hours arbitrarily.
Where can you see that? I didn't see a stock count, just "IN STOCK"...
I wonder how many are in stock.
when placing your order, add an insane amount like 5000, it'll tell you how many are available.
And this one, don't forget it!Show Image(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9507/cherrycap1.jpg)
And this one, don't forget it!Show Image(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/9507/cherrycap1.jpg)
It seems to be quite common to not bother about property rights.
1. The logo belongs to Cherry and is protected by copyright law. Reproducing it on a keycap is of course prohibited.
2. The above pic itself, taken and published by sixty (http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/g80-2000-t512.html#p10258), is also protected by copyright law. It is not public domaine unless the author says so.
Or so you think
And this one, don't forget it!
[pic]
It seems to be quite common to not bother about property rights.
1. The logo belongs to Cherry and is protected by copyright law. Reproducing it on a keycap is of course prohibited.
2. The above pic itself, taken and published by sixty (http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/g80-2000-t512.html#p10258), is also protected by copyright law. It is not public domaine unless the author says so.
If cherry sold the pad printing machinery that included that i'm not sure how that would change it.
And I highly doubt sixty cares whatsoever. If he doesn't want them used, he's say that and ask people to remove their posts.
And this one, don't forget it!
[pic]
It seems to be quite common to not bother about property rights.
1. The logo belongs to Cherry and is protected by copyright law. Reproducing it on a keycap is of course prohibited.
2. The above pic itself, taken and published by sixty (http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/g80-2000-t512.html#p10258), is also protected by copyright law. It is not public domaine unless the author says so.
If cherry sold the pad printing machinery that included that i'm not sure how that would change it.
And I highly doubt sixty cares whatsoever. If he doesn't want them used, he's say that and ask people to remove their posts.
The logo itself remains Cherry's property. Of course nobody is allowed to use it (be it made with original tooling or just copied) for commercial purposes without the consent of the copyright owner.
As for sixty's pic, I'm also sure he wouldn't mind at all. On the other hand, he's the one to decide - same as for the Cherry logo. In any case it would have been just fair to mention that it's his pic.
This is how I feel this morning :P
I doubt that GMK will produce Cherry logo keys for us.
Don't know how I feel about EK 'sneaking' in, in front of Lysol and Dan's messages? Unless it was pre-arranged this way? IDK
Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/DSC01646_zps26a23fbd.jpg)
I'm sure it will be done at some point, I agree it's a nice colorway.
GIMME NOW!!!
Again, we should create a poll for this.No MOQ, no pricing and yet we make a poll
Edit: I made a quick one:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?fromEmail=true&formkey=dGt6bnR5cGxDX3QtLWlvMTgxNV9NS2c6MQ
If the quotes are indeed colour specific, then it may be of interest to know beforehand which are the most popular ones. I hope people understand that this is just to get an idea and doesn't mean much.And if the colours are already done by EK? Then we spend more time on a re-poll?
If that's the case then we really need to know what else EK will be selling, or we're just going to be requesting things that are already halfway there.
have you guys been in contact with EK yet? if he already has his foot in the door it may just be easier to coordinate with him, he has the retail front to be able to do this easier anyway with big orders etc.
I know RGB is popular, but why don't we do a CMYK set instead to mix it up? As alaric guess, low risk things are likely to be covered by retail. So we will want to go risky :p and do the wild stuff, maybe revisit the Miami colorway I proposed awhile back for example? Think outside the basics people.
I know RGB is popular, but why don't we do a CMYK set instead to mix it up? As alaric guess, low risk things are likely to be covered by retail. So we will want to go risky :p and do the wild stuff, maybe revisit the Miami colorway I proposed awhile back for example? Think outside the basics people.I'm sure the Handarbeit would get a lot more love then that Miami set what was the final numbers for that set 50-75?
Miami set what was the final numbers for that set 50-75?
Why are you caring about the retailers anyway? Just let do a groupbuy as usual.because some people prefer it now and would pay a premium for it which will lead to the GB less successful due to some people already purchased the same set from said retailer
Why are you caring about the retailers anyway? Just let do a groupbuy as usual.because some people prefer it now and would pay a premium for it which will lead to the GB less successful due to some people already purchased the same set from said retailer
Given the communication with GMK, sounds like you should just come up with a few fictitious but plausible sets. Assuming color doesn't matter to the price much (like SP), then really it's just a matter of which keys and how many. Have a couple quotes that cover various quantities and keys. It'll be a lot easier for them to give you a quote, and should provide us at least a *ballpark* on what to expect. It could be so far in left field that it's not expected. But, being that current group buys are going on hold to wait for information from this, that sounds like a good thing to do fairly soon. Realistically, there's not much else you can do anyway, right? It's a chicken and egg situation.
I don't think we can assume colors does not affect the price, since Dan and Lysol has said we won't know the MOQ and pricing until we tell them what we want. (For example, if we pick colors they have on hand, it'll be cheaper than colors that they don't currently have)
Hell, I know I've been pushing it, but use what I have for layout and whatnot with Klaxon just to get a pricing down. I can't imagine a huge price differentiation between this, dolch or whatever else.
They have a business to run, they would most definitely not be reporting to lysol or you sadly
Chances or Brian letting you know what he has coming is slim to none either
Indeed, I would love a mods set in that colors to go with this alphas...I want a set of these with the mods in reverse colours, cream on brown.Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/e617bd37.jpg)
would be one of few 2tone style colorway I would really want.
I am exercising my right as the forum's one and only hashbaz to veto the Miami set.
Let's do something that's not fugly.
חש, you're my hero.
(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/MX_samples_zpsc3ca5577.jpg) (http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/MX_samples_zpsc3ca5577.jpg)
You changed your avatar Hashbaz! I like it!
That was what I was talking about before exactly hashbaz.
No MOQ, no pricing and yet we make a poll
Am I wrong to assume that if they made the Cherry doubleshots, then they WOULDN'T have the right tooling to make keys to fit modern Keyboards such as Filcos and "moogle kits" would still be needed from SP?
One thing I will say right now is that it's evident that there are other retailers interested in coordinating with GMK. Please, please if you are doing this reach out to either lysol or myself. It will help in the grand scale of things and allow us (as a community) to develop better and broader products through good relations with our manufacturers.
We don't want to step on eachothers feet and end up making the same thing. We're not here to expose your sales model, but we do want to understand the MOQ and pricing better so that it isn't hidden to everyone. This works well with SP today, and I imagine it could work the same way with GMK.
Yeah they have all the common keys we will need like 1.25 bottom row and fulltouch 1.75 caps lock as well as 1.5 mods and stepped caps of course. No need to use SP for any supplements to Cherry sets anymore. Modifiers pack is one of things being considered for first groupbuy.
Yeah they have all the common keys we will need like 1.25 bottom row and fulltouch 1.75 caps lock as well as 1.5 mods and stepped caps of course. No need to use SP for any supplements to Cherry sets anymore. Modifiers pack is one of things being considered for first groupbuy.
Did Cherry ever produce a 1.75 Control key to fit on standard Caps Lock placement?
Just curious about it.
One thing I will say right now is that it's evident that there are other retailers interested in coordinating with GMK. Please, please if you are doing this reach out to either lysol or myself. It will help in the grand scale of things and allow us (as a community) to develop better and broader products through good relations with our manufacturers.
We don't want to step on eachothers feet and end up making the same thing. We're not here to expose your sales model, but we do want to understand the MOQ and pricing better so that it isn't hidden to everyone. This works well with SP today, and I imagine it could work the same way with GMK.
this is pretty much exactly what i was thinking dan, all very well and good to keep both separate but also no need to be competing with each other if there is no communication and somehow we both end up making the same product requests.
at least if we know whats in the works with the other retailers working with GMK we can go and make something different.
There's a limit to this...If any vendor knows that if they make it nobody else will, that gives them incentive to monopolize. Let's not take this non-competition to the extreme.
Cheers,
Personally I would love to see a Coffee & Cream set that involved modifiers in that nice deep chocolate brown color.
That was what I was talking about before exactly hashbaz.
I am exercising my right as the forum's one and only hashbaz to veto the Miami set.
Let's do something that's not fugly.
Miami 2013!I am exercising my right as the forum's one and only hashbaz to veto the Miami set.
Let's do something that's not fugly.
How dare you
Also, unless someone talked to Brian at EK, he just said he has more cherry caps coming... not specifically full sets. He could be referring to more novelty keys, RGB sets, etc. But, I wouldn't be surprised if he did some common combos either. This will be interesting either way.
Yeah they have all the common keys we will need like 1.25 bottom row and fulltouch 1.75 caps lock as well as 1.5 mods and stepped caps of course. No need to use SP for any supplements to Cherry sets anymore. Modifiers pack is one of things being considered for first groupbuy.YES! moogle kit replacement!
Also, unless someone talked to Brian at EK, he just said he has more cherry caps coming... not specifically full sets. He could be referring to more novelty keys, RGB sets, etc. But, I wouldn't be surprised if he did some common combos either. This will be interesting either way.
This is why i am really unhappy with that retailers stepping in. They take out any flexibility of a groubbuy to get other layout than ANSI, as they most probably just stock this ones because its getting sold easiest.
in kbdmania, drugER contacted to GMK and will make GB. drugER will order 100 over full-set.Sounds like the MOQ isn't that high then. Nice!
i hope each geekhack and kbdmania gb goods are different.
Also he said GMk need not huge MOQ. nothing about detail price.
These are very good newsYeah, of course. The best thing would probably be to have a trustworthy German member (or someone else in the EU) receive the keycaps first and distribute the keycaps in Europe, as well as send the keycaps ordered by Americans to the US and have a nice guy such as lysol or Dan distribute them there. Something like that?
Still for all EU folks here, we have to figure something out so the keys won't have to fly overseas and then back in EU
And also the taxes issue
I received a 250$ order from NewYork and had to pay 100$ more in taxes, something we probably want to avoid..!
As fruktund mentioned, some countries are better suited. Germany also happens to have some of the cheapest international shipping rates in EU, so someone from Germany would be perfect.
in kbdmania, drugER contacted to GMK and will make GB. drugER will order 100 over full-set.
i hope each geekhack and kbdmania gb goods are different.
Also he said GMk need not huge MOQ. nothing about detail price.
I'm tired of all this regional fracture.
I contact to drugER to see what they are going to be doing. Hopefully we can all work together for our common goals. I'm tired of all this regional fracture.
I contact to drugER to see what they are going to be doing. Hopefully we can all work together for our common goals. I'm tired of all this regional fracture.
Thanks for being proactive on this lysol. I third your statement.
Cheers,
I contact to drugER to see what they are going to be doing. Hopefully we can all work together for our common goals. I'm tired of all this regional fracture.
Thanks for being proactive on this lysol. I third your statement.
Cheers,
This is why Lysol is one of my favorite GHers. Always on top of things and always mature. Lets get the worldwide community on this!
I am really glad this is being made available. More "Cherry" double shots to the people :D .
AFter missing out on the recent find I'm now desperate for cryllic stuff!
:) it's a big world out there beyond America.
jdcarpe, still around mostly lurking when I have time =). I miss being here too, but time just isn't cutting it with deaths in the family and work xD. Thanks for caring :). Send me a message if you feel like telling me how things are with you, J.D.Glad to see you're still kicking, sir! Hope ya can come back soon!
Ease of access sure, low price... well that remains to be seen. Sure retail may be able to buy more sets at a time for a lower cost, but then they have thier mark up. So maybe it could be similar to our groupbuy price, but I suspect it is likely to be more depending on the retailer and how much profit they need to make on them.
Not that I am complain, just a fact of the matter.
It is quite exciting that we might be able to get all of the Cherry variants without paying stupid money!
Just a little teaser...Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/Color_samples_geekhack_zpsd1c6e697.jpg)
Just a little teaser...Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/Color_samples_geekhack_zpsd1c6e697.jpg)
An official cherry color ring would be cool, I think I've only ever seen pics of incomplete ones though.
If no one else does it within a year, I would try to do a white on orangey-red set. There's just something about that cherry orangey-red that I gotta have.
A new thread with FAQs and color polling will be up in the near future. I'm hoping in the next couple days...
A new thread with FAQs and color polling will be up in the near future. I'm hoping in the next couple days...
It would be suppa nice if you manage to get available colours with their codes (pantone, CMYK,RGB, whatever) so we can come up with accurate GB mock-ups
So that it's not an entire surprise for everyone, here is what we have requested quotes for (not gonna go into detail yet):
- Esc packs in various colors, not red
- Modifer packs in various colors, including ISO enter and short R.Shift
- Number Row Set (but function row is probably the same price) in various colors
- CMYK (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow with Black legends)...not much to vote on here, but it'll come with 1.25 and 1.5-unit alt/ctrls
can we get 7x spaces in various colors?
Well i think anyone interested in 1.5x mods would be interested in spaces. Would you mind throwing on crazy color in there?can we get 7x spaces in various colors?
I was thinking of offering this as well. Any other interest in this thread? I really wanted to get standard 7x spacebars in beige, black and dolch so I can stop using my super shiny old stock ones and ****ty SP sharp cornered ones...
So that it's not an entire surprise for everyone, here is what we have requested quotes for (not gonna go into detail yet):
- Esc packs in various colors, not red
- Modifer packs in various colors, including ISO enter and short R.Shift
- Number Row Set (but function row is probably the same price) in various colors
- CMYK (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow with Black legends)...not much to vote on here, but it'll come with 1.25 and 1.5-unit alt/ctrls
What is a CMYK set? Would that be an entire set?
What is a CMYK set? Would that be an entire set?
CMYK might be cool.... but I would have to see it first.
... Otherwise, I would have done RGB because I know I can get enough people interested even though it's been beaten with a dead horse.
... Otherwise, I would have done RGB because I know I can get enough people interested even though it's been beaten with a dead horse.
Though I fail to understand why, I agree with that. People are crazy about their RGB. :)
Meh. I'll get excited when you get a full set going. Or at least moogles/tsangans. People got excited about us finding this manufacturer because they want brand new sets of Dolch, Olivetti, Skidata, and the Cherry classics. Lead time is going to be there no matter what. The sooner we get something going, the sooner we can have it delivered. In the mean time, EK and others are beating us to the punch.
Meh. I'll get excited when you get a full set going. Or at least moogles/tsangans. People got excited about us finding this manufacturer because they want brand new sets of Dolch, Olivetti, Skidata, and the Cherry classics. Lead time is going to be there no matter what. The sooner we get something going, the sooner we can have it delivered. In the mean time, EK and others are beating us to the punch.
... Otherwise, I would have done RGB because I know I can get enough people interested even though it's been beaten with a dead horse.
Though I fail to understand why, I agree with that. People are crazy about their RGB. :)
I'm with you, aggiejy. I just don't get it.
I know I'll be ripped off if EK does a Dolch replica and we don't, just because of their $50 shipping. Maybe that's just me being a tad bit pessimistic. :D
...I want to know their MOQ, price, etc. so that our own vendors aren't ripping everyone off.
This is awesome news! Will be keeping my eye on the GB forum.
How long until we all start selling our Moogle kits? :D
Meh. I'll get excited when you get a full set going. Or at least moogles/tsangans. People got excited about us finding this manufacturer because they want brand new sets of Dolch, Olivetti, Skidata, and the Cherry classics. Lead time is going to be there no matter what. The sooner we get something going, the sooner we can have it delivered. In the mean time, EK and others are beating us to the punch.
That was my initial reaction as well. Would much rather start with a full set, but I guess I see how testing the waters could be good. But to your "at least moogles/tsangans" thing, I think the "Modifer packs in various colors, including ISO enter and short R.Shift" option would cover the moogle part of that at least. Unless I misunderstand? Regardless, of the 4 things, that's the only one I'd be interesting in ordering. But I'm sure there will be plenty of orders to make a go of it. But, a full set of a safe color would go bonkers I think... hopefully someone else does this.
...I want to know their MOQ, price, etc. so that our own vendors aren't ripping everyone off.
I agree with this, but you should really add a full set to the quote regardless of if you plan to do it. Getting pricing only for the things you listed don't help much when planning for a full set, or keeping retailers honest.
I think the shortlist on the previous page included modifier packs. We'll see. :)This is awesome news! Will be keeping my eye on the GB forum.
How long until we all start selling our Moogle kits? :D
I don't think moogle kits are part of the first round.IIRC
Double shot windows and menu or pad printed?
Double shot windows and menu or pad printed?
Double shot windows and menu or pad printed?
Double shot windows and menu or pad printed?
They certainly have the capability to DS, and that's what was requested. So, first ever items? =)
If we're doing DS winkeys I want the classic logo! :)
If we're doing DS winkeys I want the classic logo! :)
To make things clear...sounds great but add spacebars plz
Mod pack will have:
key | size | qty
tab 1.5 qty 1
caps lock stepped 1.75 qty 1
caps lock full touch 1.75 qty 1
shift 1.25 qty 1
shift 1.75 qty 1
shift 2.25 qty 1
shift 2.75 qty 1
ctrl 1.25 qty 2
ctrl 1.5 qty 2
alt 1.25 qty 2
alt 1.5 qty 2
win 1.25 qty 2
win 1x qty 2
menu 1.25 qty 1
menu 1x qty 1
ANSI enter 2.25 qty 1
ISO enter qty 1
backspace 2x qty 1
aditionally I was thinking about maybe adding Fn key in for us 60%ers if there is not objection.
CMYK set will have all the same sizes for the shift, ctrl and alt keys listed above, but only those keys.
When it comes to full set time, we are planning to do it BIG and international, but one thing at a time.
The only reason I'm doing an alternative to RGB is because I'm almost positive that other retailers are already doing this. Just from the samples photo that GMK originally sent to lysol and I, I'm assuming it's for either EK or some other vendors here on GH. Otherwise, I would have done RGB because I know I can get enough people interested even though it's been beaten with a dead horse.Good to hear!
But as many other people have already said in this thread and told me personally, the retailers are not willing to share their information. And hey, that's fine with me. It's going to impact them more than it will impact me, so I stopped caring =)
Spacebar is being looked into. If we offer it, it will just be spacebar. Not include in anything and probably just the 3 colors beige, black, Dolch grey.
To make things clear...Add the fn key. Otherwise brilliant
Mod pack will have:
key | size | qty
tab 1.5 qty 1
caps lock stepped 1.75 qty 1
caps lock full touch 1.75 qty 1
shift 1.25 qty 1
shift 1.75 qty 1
shift 2.25 qty 1
shift 2.75 qty 1
ctrl 1.25 qty 2
ctrl 1.5 qty 2
alt 1.25 qty 2
alt 1.5 qty 2
win 1.25 qty 2
win 1x qty 2
menu 1.25 qty 1
menu 1x qty 1
ANSI enter 2.25 qty 1
ISO enter qty 1
backspace 2x qty 1
aditionally I was thinking about maybe adding Fn key in for us 60%ers if there is not objection.
CMYK set will have all the same sizes for the shift, ctrl and alt keys listed above, but only those keys.
When it comes to full set time, we are planning to do it BIG and international, but one thing at a time.
Yeah I don't think I've seen many RGB sets go on anything other than white on black or black on white Cherry sets
Question, I know that we are trying to make this first buy as quick and easy for GMK (so we start with a good relationship). With that said, will this be a cross forum GB? Or are we not doing that until we do future projects?
Has anyone worked out who can collect money? Depending on how big this gets, we might end up needing multiple paypal collectors.
I collected $18K+ in my single PP account on my last buy without issue. So as long as it dosen't get too epic it's not a big deal for me. I have my account registered for those allowances and have no limits. I also have no problem letting someone else have those responsibilities either.
Meh. I'll get excited when you get a full set going. Or at least moogles/tsangans. People got excited about us finding this manufacturer because they want brand new sets of Dolch, Olivetti, Skidata, and the Cherry classics. Lead time is going to be there no matter what. The sooner we get something going, the sooner we can have it delivered. In the mean time, EK and others are beating us to the punch.
That was my initial reaction as well. Would much rather start with a full set, but I guess I see how testing the waters could be good. But to your "at least moogles/tsangans" thing, I think the "Modifer packs in various colors, including ISO enter and short R.Shift" option would cover the moogle part of that at least. Unless I misunderstand? Regardless, of the 4 things, that's the only one I'd be interesting in ordering. But I'm sure there will be plenty of orders to make a go of it. But, a full set of a safe color would go bonkers I think... hopefully someone else does this.
Trust me, I would have loved to do a Dolch set right off the bat. There's existing keyboards that could easily be used as a means of mockups and color matching would just make things relatively easy, I think.
But as I've mentioned a bunch of times already, GMK just doesn't have the time slots to do one in the near future. After we've submitted payment for this GB, lysol and I will once again be polling for full set requirements.
You're prepared to get nailed for taxes lysol? Paypal is required to report to the IRS accounts which do more than $20K in transactions.
Meh. I'll get excited when you get a full set going. Or at least moogles/tsangans. People got excited about us finding this manufacturer because they want brand new sets of Dolch, Olivetti, Skidata, and the Cherry classics. Lead time is going to be there no matter what. The sooner we get something going, the sooner we can have it delivered. In the mean time, EK and others are beating us to the punch.
That was my initial reaction as well. Would much rather start with a full set, but I guess I see how testing the waters could be good. But to your "at least moogles/tsangans" thing, I think the "Modifer packs in various colors, including ISO enter and short R.Shift" option would cover the moogle part of that at least. Unless I misunderstand? Regardless, of the 4 things, that's the only one I'd be interesting in ordering. But I'm sure there will be plenty of orders to make a go of it. But, a full set of a safe color would go bonkers I think... hopefully someone else does this.
Trust me, I would have loved to do a Dolch set right off the bat. There's existing keyboards that could easily be used as a means of mockups and color matching would just make things relatively easy, I think.
But as I've mentioned a bunch of times already, GMK just doesn't have the time slots to do one in the near future. After we've submitted payment for this GB, lysol and I will once again be polling for full set requirements.
I guess I'm just stupid and not getting it, but why does "near future" matter in getting a price together for a full set? Will they not quote it if they can't deliver in less than a quarter? Or do they not have a sales department/head/person that can look in a pricing book?
It would be awesome if full sets can be delivered before the WASD V2 is released (March 2013)
It would be awesome if full sets can be delivered before the WASD V2 is released (March 2013)
wont happen lol
I'm already paying taxes, so I have no issue collecting money and distributing.Man, if you're offering, this would be awesome IMO. You have the infrastructure up to make it happen. What would be a fair way to compensate for that? A per order fee or something?
Wow, so full sets will come after March 2013? That is going to be forever :(
It would be awesome if full sets can be delivered before the WASD V2 is released (March 2013)
wont happen lol
Wow, so full sets will come after March 2013? That is going to be forever :(
To be fair, even if we submitted a full set order today, we're talking feb-march 2013.
It would be awesome if full sets can be delivered before the WASD V2 is released (March 2013)wont happen lol
Wow, so full sets will come after March 2013? That is going to be forever :(
To be fair, even if we submitted a full set order today, we're talking feb-march 2013.
To be fair, even if we submitted a full set order today, we're talking feb-march 2013.
So, this time next year. Would STILL be much faster than Round 4. ;-)
To be fair, even if we submitted a full set order today, we're talking feb-march 2013.
So, this time next year. Would STILL be much faster than Round 4. ;-)
It would be awesome if full sets can be delivered before the WASD V2 is released (March 2013)wont happen lol
Wow, so full sets will come after March 2013? That is going to be forever :(
To be fair, even if we submitted a full set order today, we're talking feb-march 2013.
That long? Why do you think that is? Is the manufacturing process up to 4 months?
It's not that the actual lead time is 4 months. That is just their current schedule panned out. Which means they can't accept any orders until then for full sets. My bet is actual lead time is probably similar to SP's...roughly 4-6 weeks if they have the plastic on hand.
If they could take my invoice today for full sets, they would have said so. But they explicitly told me they don't have time for it right now and that they can't make any full set orders until at least 4 months down the stretch. They said they would also let me know if a time slot opens up. Then again, I'm not an industrial manufacturer and I don't have money up front, so maybe that is just their restriction to me as a customer. Large companies or retailers may take priority as a result.
Would it be possible to find out if they can make caps lock stylized like on the G80 2550 (http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:G80-2550_handbag.jpg)? That with a center stem would be the greatest key ever.
Yeah, whatever happened to CCnB? That was the set I was most looking forwards to second only to a yellow set.
Lysol, I got some information for you.he wrote he offered 100 sets to GMK. its what i mean.
there were some mistakes with leesofi as I can tell. drugER said he will start a korean group buy IFF (if and only if) the MOQ is 100.
Anyhow, I pay taxes as well. I can collect.
We love lee. :-* :-* :-* :-*
We love lee. :-* :-* :-* :-*
ExactLEE
Thanks bros~
but i cant receive your kiss,MMB. XD
i`ll consider if you wear lipstick.
Would it be possible to find out if they can make caps lock stylized like on the G80 2550 (http://deskthority.net/wiki/File:G80-2550_handbag.jpg)? That with a center stem would be the greatest key ever.
Nice markup... :)
They are a business and their only objective is to make money. So thats what they do or leverage/risk everything they have trying too anyways. Problem?Nice markup... :)
Nice markup... :)
/me speculates anyways... :P Have fun digesting the info Dan!
I LOL'd./me speculates anyways... :P Have fun digesting the info Dan!
Does that mean when he tells us what it's all about that it'll be like him pooping? Cause that's just weird.
*Patiently waits for the GB thread to spawnMy F5 is getting well worn!
o.o
Really hoping for the unicorn colours.
Really hoping for the unicorn colours.
Yup, I want to arrange a rainbow upon GH
Really hoping for the unicorn colours.
Yup, I want to arrange a rainbow upon GH
How is it that I'm seeing you mean rainbow as if it's a plague?
Now?
Now?
It is now a clickable link. I don't click youtube links because my roommate and his fiancee have ruined surprise youtube links for me. Sorry.
Now?
It is now a clickable link. I don't click youtube links because my roommate and his fiancee have ruined surprise youtube links for me. Sorry.
FFS you difficult man! I'll have it fixed within 2 minutes....*rabblerabble*
Fixed
Now?
It is now a clickable link. I don't click youtube links because my roommate and his fiancee have ruined surprise youtube links for me. Sorry.
FFS you difficult man! I'll have it fixed within 2 minutes....*rabblerabble*
Fixed
You made it worse, I'm not clicking that face. Would you click that face? I didn't think so.
Now?
It is now a clickable link. I don't click youtube links because my roommate and his fiancee have ruined surprise youtube links for me. Sorry.
FFS you difficult man! I'll have it fixed within 2 minutes....*rabblerabble*
Fixed
You made it worse, I'm not clicking that face. Would you click that face? I didn't think so.
Its from a kids show! CMON! It is exactly what I want to say to you right now!
I clicked it.
Not sure I'd let my daughter watch that.
So is South Park.
Thread is posted in IC, but waiting moderator approval.
Thread is posted in IC, but waiting moderator approval.
So is South Park.
I wouldn't let kids watch south park. I wouldn't compare those two shows at all.
So is South Park.
I wouldn't let kids watch south park. I wouldn't compare those two shows at all.
Just sayin' that South Park is messed up enough for adults to get some laughs out of it. Definitely not a kids' show.
Check out Interest Check Forum Thread
So, still no info on what prices/MOQ might be for full sets?
So, still no info on what prices/MOQ might be for full sets?
No, Dan won't bother them about full sets, yet.
Not criticizing anyone, but I just want to say this. I work as a sales rep for a company that manufactures automation control panels for the oil and natural gas industry. From time to time, we get backlogged and have quite a long lead time on new orders. I have never refused a new order from any customer, new or established, due to backlog. I work with my sales team to quote the order and get the information to the prospective customer, so that hopefully I can close the sale with the customer. I just advise them of the lead time to be expected, so there are no surprises.
If GMK has a backlog of 12 weeks, who is to say that in 12 weeks, they won't still have such a backlog? It may even be longer, if they get a huge order, or many orders at once.
I understand that we don't want to overwhelm them with new requests. I understand the need for a single point of contact to communicate with GMK. I understand the desire to start small, and "test the waters," so to speak, with a new supplier. But this is a community forum, and I really think the community as a whole wants full sets of keycaps.
tl;dr Want info about full sets sooner, rather than later. What's the harm in asking?
Not criticizing anyone, but I just want to say this. I work as a sales rep for a company that manufactures automation control panels for the oil and natural gas industry. From time to time, we get backlogged and have quite a long lead time on new orders. I have never refused a new order from any customer, new or established, due to backlog. I work with my sales team to quote the order and get the information to the prospective customer, so that hopefully I can close the sale with the customer. I just advise them of the lead time to be expected, so there are no surprises.
If GMK has a backlog of 12 weeks, who is to say that in 12 weeks, they won't still have such a backlog? It may even be longer, if they get a huge order, or many orders at once.
I understand that we don't want to overwhelm them with new requests. I understand the need for a single point of contact to communicate with GMK. I understand the desire to start small, and "test the waters," so to speak, with a new supplier. But this is a community forum, and I really think the community as a whole wants full sets of keycaps.
tl;dr Want info about full sets sooner, rather than later. What's the harm in asking?
Due to the MOQ likely being similar for full sets as the modifier packs we are starting with, we need all the help getting to those levels as we can. Having more languages seems like one of the best ways to do that to me as well.
[…] Yes you will have extra keys you won't use. But, keep in mind this way you will be helping others get keys for their layout they might not be able to get if it was a stand alone option, true community style.
Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.It would be terrible. Put a German set of caps on your keyboard. You're never going to be happy with it...
Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?
Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.It would be terrible. Put a German set of caps on your keyboard. You're never going to be happy with it...
Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?
Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.It would be terrible. Put a German set of caps on your keyboard. You're never going to be happy with it...
Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?
See here is the thing. We are still planning out how the full sets are going to work. Due to the VAST amount of languages we are not going to just be like oh, well US ANSI only, sorry world. We also don't want to have a zillion order choices either. This means we need to make out an extensive and detailed list of how many different legends there are and so on before we can submit that for quotes. Right now I have gotten this far,
DK/GB/NO/SF/US (Denmark, Britain, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish and US layouts)
CH/DE/HU/SK/TS (Swiss, German, Hungarian, Slovakian and Czech layouts)
ES/IT/PO (also include South American ES/PO variants) /BE/FR (Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Belgian/French layouts)
and am still working on more language for a fourth group. I plan on having a maximum of 4 language group sets. Full sets will include many sizes of keys for various keyboard layouts as well, similar to the modifier packs.
Alternately if there are other ideas that DON'T involve having a f*ckton of options please feel free to make some suggestions. I have no interest in turning it into something confusing and difficult to manage. Yes you will have extra keys you won't use. But, keep in mind this way you will be helping others get keys for their layout they might not be able to get if it was a stand alone option, true community style.
You'd never be happy, but the keyboard would grow a beard though.Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.It would be terrible. Put a German set of caps on your keyboard. You're never going to be happy with it...
Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?
I <3 this thread.
I also have DE/RU set on ANSI board. I have other DE, FR, SP, and IT set as well, and generally only use ANSI boards. I find the ISO layout less friendly, especially for gaming with that small left shift. I think it would be interesting to have a selection of 1.5 key for ansi that have example #' or *µ to replace where the \| goes on US.
I know lot of people are excited about sets and want them RIGHT NOW, but we need to just relax a little bit. Things are happening, but it take some time.
Even though I am an ANSI user, I am tired of everything being so US centric. I can't imagine how the Europeans feel. Just because YOU don't use a particular layout doesn't mean that there are not potentially hundred people that would. As hard as it is to get caps for some layout, I have a feeling some people will be pouring out of the woodwork for some options, but that is also speculation.
If this thread loves me so much, why was it having a romantic dinner with you? I think we're going to have some issues Tj...
Don't try to smother the thread Alessandro.
I also have DE/RU set on ANSI board. I have other DE, FR, SP, and IT set as well, and generally only use ANSI boards. I find the ISO layout less friendly, especially for gaming with that small left shift. I think it would be interesting to have a selection of 1.5 key for ansi that have example #' or *µ to replace where the \| goes on US.
I know lot of people are excited about sets and want them RIGHT NOW, but we need to just relax a little bit. Things are happening, but it take some time.
Even though I am an ANSI user, I am tired of everything being so US centric. I can't imagine how the Europeans feel. Just because YOU don't use a particular layout doesn't mean that there are not potentially hundred people that would. As hard as it is to get caps for some layout, I have a feeling some people will be pouring out of the woodwork for some options, but that is also speculation.
If I end up being wrong, then I am wrong and we can adjust focus to what there is demand for. It's better to downsize, then find out we need to upsize.
just seems like a big leap to think there is that demand without actually finding out first.
just seems like a big leap to think there is that demand without actually finding out first.
Valid point, but it doesn't really matter right now. As long as we have pricing with and without these additional keys, then we can gauge interest in in the interest check for the full set group buy. If there isn't enough interest in the extra sets, and the price difference is not nominal, then they could (and SHOULD) be removed. (Or broken out into their own item.)
Gotta say I'm really glad to have Lysol and Dan heading this up. Truly shocked at the 'we're American, don't bother with the non-ANSI folks to save us a couple of measly dollars' comments.
Real healthy dose of community spirit.
I'll get my coat now.
What I think no one wants is the fancy cost balancing that took place in R3 and R4 whereby the many shoulder a lot of cost so that the few can have their specific regional layouts.
What I think no one wants is the fancy cost balancing that took place in R3 and R4 whereby the many shoulder a lot of cost so that the few can have their specific regional layouts.
Just voicing my opinion and responding to others' opinions.
I too am fine with a small extra cost for keys I won't use if it means that a lot more people get what they want. My understanding though is that 7bit distributed a significant portion of the cost of the regional sets (of which very few were ordered) among the more popular sets to make the former more affordable, both in R3 and R4.
So I don't thnk both cases are comparable.
It's pretty funny to see how the average geekhack user doesn't give a f*ck about non-US users and our layouts.
The only thing we ask is for our own layouts to be considered having in mind that we have helped to reach the MOQ in every single GB that have been made and we just received blank keys to fit on ISO keyboards most of the time or not even that. To have some great sets we have to deal with missing keycaps sometimes and wrong number cluster symbols every single time. You wouldn't want to receive 4 extra keys to make us pay less for a set that could fit ANSI and ISO keyboards.
What would you think if Lysol and Dan decided we're only going to purchase ISO DE layout? None of you would be happy with that decission except for a few.
That's how we feel most of the time. Some of you only care about your ANSI layout and nothing else.
I can remember how many of us received an useless ANSI number row in Round 3 and had to purchase our extra layout keys separately having to pay for both when we only needed one and wasn't ANSI. And of course extra layout keys weren't cheap.
That's not the way to go but we've made sacrifices many times receiving keys we don't need and paying for them so everyone could get their sets cheaper and some of you won't even think about it or won't even think about receiving 4 keys.
How about looking at the situation from another point of view?
I totally agree with my fellows and I reiterate in their opinion. Maybe it's time to finish this "poor neighbour" stigma for the traditionally outcast layouts. It's true we are not that big in numbers such as ANSI or ISO DE, but we have been supporting the community and doing sacrifices in some degree to make happen other group buys. The GMK deal will hopefully change the rules of the game and we would really appreciate some solidarity from the rest of the community to give us a chance to get our proper layout. On the other hand, some currently minority layouts in the hobbyist community have quite a growing potential if you look at the numbers of their target audience. Just think about the Spanish-speaking market and it's weak representation in this kind of communities. This lack of love to their layout doesn't encourage them to jump in, that's for sure.It's pretty funny to see how the average geekhack user doesn't give a f*ck about non-US users and our layouts.
The only thing we ask is for our own layouts to be considered having in mind that we have helped to reach the MOQ in every single GB that have been made and we just received blank keys to fit on ISO keyboards most of the time or not even that. To have some great sets we have to deal with missing keycaps sometimes and wrong number cluster symbols every single time. You wouldn't want to receive 4 extra keys to make us pay less for a set that could fit ANSI and ISO keyboards.
What would you think if Lysol and Dan decided we're only going to purchase ISO DE layout? None of you would be happy with that decission except for a few.
That's how we feel most of the time. Some of you only care about your ANSI layout and nothing else.
I can remember how many of us received an useless ANSI number row in Round 3 and had to purchase our extra layout keys separately having to pay for both when we only needed one and wasn't ANSI. And of course extra layout keys weren't cheap.
That's not the way to go but we've made sacrifices many times receiving keys we don't need and paying for them so everyone could get their sets cheaper and some of you won't even think about it or won't even think about receiving 4 keys.
How about looking at the situation from another point of view?
I totally agree with u guilleguillaume, geekhack, deskthority, and kbdmania should cooperate to reach as much people as posible, that include ANSI + ISO layouts (de, spanish, italian etc)
I dont have any problem if i have to pay some extras to get my current layout (spanish)
Now we don't have the problem we had previously with Signature Plastics since they allways charged us with customs, GMK have the tools for all the layouts.
//korne
I totally agree with my fellows and I reiterate in their opinion. Maybe it's time to finish this "poor neighbour" stigma for the traditionally outcast layouts. It's true we are not that big in numbers such as ANSI or ISO DE, but we have been supporting the community and doing sacrifices in some degree to make happen other group buys. The GMK deal will hopefully change the rules of the game and we would really appreciate some solidarity from the rest of the community to give us a chance to get our proper layout. On the other hand, some currently minority layouts in the hobbyist community have quite a growing potential if you look at the numbers of their target audience. Just think about the Spanish-speaking market and it's weak representation in this kind of communities. This lack of love to their layout doesn't encourage them to jump in, that's for sure.It's pretty funny to see how the average geekhack user doesn't give a f*ck about non-US users and our layouts.
The only thing we ask is for our own layouts to be considered having in mind that we have helped to reach the MOQ in every single GB that have been made and we just received blank keys to fit on ISO keyboards most of the time or not even that. To have some great sets we have to deal with missing keycaps sometimes and wrong number cluster symbols every single time. You wouldn't want to receive 4 extra keys to make us pay less for a set that could fit ANSI and ISO keyboards.
What would you think if Lysol and Dan decided we're only going to purchase ISO DE layout? None of you would be happy with that decission except for a few.
That's how we feel most of the time. Some of you only care about your ANSI layout and nothing else.
I can remember how many of us received an useless ANSI number row in Round 3 and had to purchase our extra layout keys separately having to pay for both when we only needed one and wasn't ANSI. And of course extra layout keys weren't cheap.
That's not the way to go but we've made sacrifices many times receiving keys we don't need and paying for them so everyone could get their sets cheaper and some of you won't even think about it or won't even think about receiving 4 keys.
How about looking at the situation from another point of view?
I totally agree with u guilleguillaume, geekhack, deskthority, and kbdmania should cooperate to reach as much people as posible, that include ANSI + ISO layouts (de, spanish, italian etc)
I dont have any problem if i have to pay some extras to get my current layout (spanish)
Now we don't have the problem we had previously with Signature Plastics since they allways charged us with customs, GMK have the tools for all the layouts.
//korne
I totally agree with my fellows and I reiterate in their opinion. Maybe it's time to finish this "poor neighbour" stigma for the traditionally outcast layouts. It's true we are not that big in numbers such as ANSI or ISO DE, but we have been supporting the community and doing sacrifices in some degree to make happen other group buys. The GMK deal will hopefully change the rules of the game and we would really appreciate some solidarity from the rest of the community to give us a chance to get our proper layout. On the other hand, some currently minority layouts in the hobbyist community have quite a growing potential if you look at the numbers of their target audience. Just think about the Spanish-speaking market and it's weak representation in this kind of communities. This lack of love to their layout doesn't encourage them to jump in, that's for sure.It's pretty funny to see how the average geekhack user doesn't give a f*ck about non-US users and our layouts.
The only thing we ask is for our own layouts to be considered having in mind that we have helped to reach the MOQ in every single GB that have been made and we just received blank keys to fit on ISO keyboards most of the time or not even that. To have some great sets we have to deal with missing keycaps sometimes and wrong number cluster symbols every single time. You wouldn't want to receive 4 extra keys to make us pay less for a set that could fit ANSI and ISO keyboards.
What would you think if Lysol and Dan decided we're only going to purchase ISO DE layout? None of you would be happy with that decission except for a few.
That's how we feel most of the time. Some of you only care about your ANSI layout and nothing else.
I can remember how many of us received an useless ANSI number row in Round 3 and had to purchase our extra layout keys separately having to pay for both when we only needed one and wasn't ANSI. And of course extra layout keys weren't cheap.
That's not the way to go but we've made sacrifices many times receiving keys we don't need and paying for them so everyone could get their sets cheaper and some of you won't even think about it or won't even think about receiving 4 keys.
How about looking at the situation from another point of view?
I totally agree with u guilleguillaume, geekhack, deskthority, and kbdmania should cooperate to reach as much people as posible, that include ANSI + ISO layouts (de, spanish, italian etc)
I dont have any problem if i have to pay some extras to get my current layout (spanish)
Now we don't have the problem we had previously with Signature Plastics since they allways charged us with customs, GMK have the tools for all the layouts.
//korne
Guys...I don't know why we are getting so worked up...Dan and lysol have already stated multiple times we are going to get as many regions in the buy as possible...This isn't even for sets.
Let's just take a step back and breathe.
Cheers,
It's pretty funny to see how the average geekhack user doesn't give a f*ck about non-US users and our layouts.
The only thing we ask is for our own layouts to be considered having in mind that we have helped to reach the MOQ in every single GB that have been made and we just received blank keys to fit on ISO keyboards most of the time or not even that. To have some great sets we have to deal with missing keycaps sometimes and wrong number cluster symbols every single time. You wouldn't want to receive 4 extra keys to make us pay less for a set that could fit ANSI and ISO keyboards.
What would you think if Lysol and Dan decided we're only going to purchase ISO DE layout? None of you would be happy with that decission except for a few.
That's how we feel most of the time. Some of you only care about your ANSI layout and nothing else.
I can remember how many of us received an useless ANSI number row in Round 3 and had to purchase our extra layout keys separately having to pay for both when we only needed one and wasn't ANSI. And of course extra layout keys weren't cheap.
That's not the way to go but we've made sacrifices many times receiving keys we don't need and paying for them so everyone could get their sets cheaper and some of you won't even think about it or won't even think about receiving 4 keys.
How about looking at the situation from another point of view?
I don't partake in full sets as my layout is never done. So I'm limited to 7bit really. I'm glad Lysol is running an inclusive group buy.
ISO is used in most of Europe, isn't it?
ISO is used in most of Europe, isn't it?
I always assumed that most of europe seemed to go towards ANSI rather than ISO (but I could be wrong)
ISO is used in most of Europe, isn't it?
I always assumed that most of europe seemed to go towards ANSI rather than ISO (but I could be wrong)
Well the standard in Europe in ISO. Of course there are people who prefer ANSI, but it's hard to tell if they are actually numerous, or simply noisy :))
ISO is used in most of Europe, isn't it?
I always assumed that most of europe seemed to go towards ANSI rather than ISO (but I could be wrong)
Well the standard in Europe in ISO. Of course there are people who prefer ANSI, but it's hard to tell if they are actually numerous, or simply noisy :))
I'd say we have a very heavy selection bias here of EU ISO users who give in and just get ANSI to help group buys.
ISO is the standard in EuropeISO is used in most of Europe, isn't it?
I always assumed that most of europe seemed to go towards ANSI rather than ISO (but I could be wrong)
And even people who know what ISO and ANSI layout are for that matter. The general masses, and may just think: "oh, what a weirdly shaped enter... oh well, it will have to do."I'd say we have a very heavy selection bias here of EU ISO users who give in and just get ANSI to help group buys.Quite possibly... and not just GBs, keyboards as well.
I always assumed that most of europe seemed to go towards ANSI rather than ISO (but I could be wrong)Most of Europe going towards ANSI rather than ISO?
I always assumed that most of europe seemed to go towards ANSI rather than ISO (but I could be wrong)Most of Europe going towards ANSI rather than ISO?
Where did you catch that :))
Could you imagine typing on a keyboard which misses one or more of the characters used in your language? That's what happens to Europeans switching to US layout. ß in German, ç in French or ñ in Spanish are not just weird signs appearing once in a while, but normal characters of their own like, say, b or d. It makes absolutely no sense to get rid of them if you want to type in your own language.
... even on DT...
... even on DT...
That's what I meant by 'noisy' ;)
he is looking to buy their existing stocks not asking about groupbuys. one of those who couldn't wait. o well.
It's pretty funny to see how the average geekhack user doesn't give a f*ck about non-US users and our layouts.
The only thing we ask is for our own layouts to be considered having in mind that we have helped to reach the MOQ in every single GB that have been made and we just received blank keys to fit on ISO keyboards most of the time or not even that. To have some great sets we have to deal with missing keycaps sometimes and wrong number cluster symbols every single time. You wouldn't want to receive 4 extra keys to make us pay less for a set that could fit ANSI and ISO keyboards.
What would you think if Lysol and Dan decided we're only going to purchase ISO DE layout? None of you would be happy with that decission except for a few.
That's how we feel most of the time. Some of you only care about your ANSI layout and nothing else.
I can remember how many of us received an useless ANSI number row in Round 3 and had to purchase our extra layout keys separately having to pay for both when we only needed one and wasn't ANSI. And of course extra layout keys weren't cheap.
That's not the way to go but we've made sacrifices many times receiving keys we don't need and paying for them so everyone could get their sets cheaper and some of you won't even think about it or won't even think about receiving 4 keys.
How about looking at the situation from another point of view?
It's pretty funny to see how the average geekhack user doesn't give a f*ck about non-US users and our layouts.
The only thing we ask is for our own layouts to be considered having in mind that we have helped to reach the MOQ in every single GB that have been made and we just received blank keys to fit on ISO keyboards most of the time or not even that. To have some great sets we have to deal with missing keycaps sometimes and wrong number cluster symbols every single time. You wouldn't want to receive 4 extra keys to make us pay less for a set that could fit ANSI and ISO keyboards.
What would you think if Lysol and Dan decided we're only going to purchase ISO DE layout? None of you would be happy with that decission except for a few.
That's how we feel most of the time. Some of you only care about your ANSI layout and nothing else.
I can remember how many of us received an useless ANSI number row in Round 3 and had to purchase our extra layout keys separately having to pay for both when we only needed one and wasn't ANSI. And of course extra layout keys weren't cheap.
That's not the way to go but we've made sacrifices many times receiving keys we don't need and paying for them so everyone could get their sets cheaper and some of you won't even think about it or won't even think about receiving 4 keys.
How about looking at the situation from another point of view?
no one said anything of the sort, all we (well I personally) asked is that you speak up, and we see there is enough interest for it. you have to see how it would be pretty stupid if only 30-50 want the euro layouts if MOQ is over 400 sets.
im all for paying a bit extra for keys i dont actually need to help meet MOQ and get other people some layouts but if its just gonna be for a small minority then whats the point? you guys who really want this should be out there gathering interest from other forums etc in other languages for the people that might be interested in this but have no idea or can't read geekhack because of language barriers etc.
It's pretty funny to see how the average geekhack user doesn't give a f*ck about non-US users and our layouts.
The only thing we ask is for our own layouts to be considered having in mind that we have helped to reach the MOQ in every single GB that have been made and we just received blank keys to fit on ISO keyboards most of the time or not even that. To have some great sets we have to deal with missing keycaps sometimes and wrong number cluster symbols every single time. You wouldn't want to receive 4 extra keys to make us pay less for a set that could fit ANSI and ISO keyboards.
What would you think if Lysol and Dan decided we're only going to purchase ISO DE layout? None of you would be happy with that decission except for a few.
That's how we feel most of the time. Some of you only care about your ANSI layout and nothing else.
I can remember how many of us received an useless ANSI number row in Round 3 and had to purchase our extra layout keys separately having to pay for both when we only needed one and wasn't ANSI. And of course extra layout keys weren't cheap.
That's not the way to go but we've made sacrifices many times receiving keys we don't need and paying for them so everyone could get their sets cheaper and some of you won't even think about it or won't even think about receiving 4 keys.
How about looking at the situation from another point of view?
no one said anything of the sort, all we (well I personally) asked is that you speak up, and we see there is enough interest for it. you have to see how it would be pretty stupid if only 30-50 want the euro layouts if MOQ is over 400 sets.
im all for paying a bit extra for keys i dont actually need to help meet MOQ and get other people some layouts but if its just gonna be for a small minority then whats the point? you guys who really want this should be out there gathering interest from other forums etc in other languages for the people that might be interested in this but have no idea or can't read geekhack because of language barriers etc.
That depends, 50 is still quite a fraction of 400, especially in terms of reaching a MOQ. I don't mind which way this goes, I'm very happy using US ANSI anyway, and can stay that way. If we include international packs then great, I can sway my hash key for a pound key, and speech marks for @. Either is fine with me.
yes 50 is still alot, but 350 other people will have to pay extra and have a bunch of useless keys just for that minority. im sure hash can give ideas on more actual numbers since he has run GBs before with ISO layout options etc.
yeah but the problem seems to be the communication area. guys whinging about not being included because of ISO etc should be out there spreading the word about this. if most of europe use this then get the word out!
I think there may be a little misunderstanding as to my proposal as well. There will be groups, not just one huge set with every possible key. So for example US ANSI would help with GB and Nordic keys. DE ISO would help with Swiss, Czech, etc. Spanish, Italian, French etc would help each other meet moq and so on. Things that are most closely related keymap wise will help each other only assuming there is enough interest to include a specific language at all.
Each group would have it's own MOQ, so it wouldn't effect the entire buy, just those options if done my way.
OTOH look at how quickly the Cherry red Esc key at EK is selling!
Still, I don’t see layouts like French happening, just too many keys that no other layout has.
German and the whole nordic stuff could happen due to them having lots of keys in common, but if it’s still 400 MOQ, not gonna happen.
[...]
Dolch would hit that ;D
I would bet that klaxon would make a good run at it, too. Esp if language packs and real iso options were offered.
Mmmm dolch red alert.
(This is actually kind of the plan if moq and stuff isn't retarded)
Mmmm dolch red alert.
(This is actually kind of the plan if moq and stuff isn't retarded)
I wont mind a chocolate alert too! :p :p
Mmmm dolch red alert.
(This is actually kind of the plan if moq and stuff isn't retarded)
I wont mind a chocolate alert too! :p :p
That sounds too much like Code Brown for me.
We should call it "Holy overflowing cesspool Batman!" Especially if I make a cake for it.
*Deskthority thread references are fun.* ;)
Mocha Latte.
The mod aren't different, special on Italian is the enter which is labeled Invio, but there is some interesting nav keys on Italian layout.
Mmmm dolch red alert.
(This is actually kind of the plan if moq and stuff isn't retarded)
I wont mind a chocolate alert too! :p :p
Mocha Latte.
if we do a coffee and creme set, we need all the mod's to be in italian... just FYI ;)
I like that sad smile next to P and the echap key :)
I like that sad smile next to P and the echap key :)
its sad becasue it needs a moogle kit
its sad because some people would assault it with a moogle kit
EK, if you release any of those sets you WILL be crushing the opertunity for multi legend sets...I don't fully understand what you are suggesting here. I think you are suggesting that if I want to buy a keyboard set from elitekeyboards, or some other keyboard oriented site then I have to get extra keys for Swedish, German, and other languages included. I think a better alternative would be for smaller group buys for just those specific keys that other languages need to enhance other sets. If GMK will not do smaller quantities then they are the bad guy, not an American company wanting to sell English keyboards. It is a nice gesture to try and support more languages but at what point do you stop holding back the majority for the benefit of the minority?
Please tell Lysol / Dan your plans, I'm sure they can both keep a secret and can steer this whole project in the right direction.
I don't think that's what's being suggested there at all.
And I don't think it's only a problem for multi-legend sets.
Here's the worst case scenario. An interest check starts and gets a good response. A sneaky vendor takes a risk and orders just the core, tenkeyless, set directly. They come up for sale before the group buy even starts collecting money. Sure, it costs more than in the group buy, because of profit margin, but maybe not much more if the GB includes numpad keys (I'm not even considering languages for now). Some people jump ship - they get what they want and it arrives within a couple of days. GB fails to meet the MOQ. Game over.
I'm not saying any particular vendor would do that, but it's a possibility.
somebody explain something to me that i dont think i'm getting.
people are complaining about EK not having language packs and just picking up regular ansi base sets right?
how many people are in need of those language packs? who else is going to pick up the tab to reach the MOQ? or are they going to be added to a base set that most people won't use and don't want to pay for.
I don't know, sounds like complaining to complain to me. I wouldn't expect US vendor to offer other options. Just as I wouldn't expect to find Japanese sets in Germany.
Usual putting the cart before the horse. Relax, and offer constructive ideas for the full set groupbuy in the spring. Hopefully by then we can have all the details ironed out on how it will work and what will be offered so it will go smoothly.
However once again I will kindly ask to take all converstaion not pertaining to this buy into the more general GMK keycap thread (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37786.0).
Thanks.
Of course it would all depend on pricing, and MOQs.
Statistics from R3...Code: [Select]avail |kit |qty|cost |keys |descriptionWhere NORDIC included DE, FI, NO, SE, AT, DK, SI.
sold out|STANDARD |190|$40 | 117|Standard kit Space not incl.!
2 left |UK | 22|$5 | 8|Language kit
in stock|NORDIC | 20|$16 | 44|Nordic Language kit
1 left |FR | 11|$15 | 29|French Language kit
in stock|ES | 7|$14 | 23|Spanish Language kit
UK stands out for two reasons: most orders, and least keys!!
Even all language kits together was only just over a quarter of the number of standard (US) kits, and is a total of about 100 keys (although a few would be shared, notably the ISO shift and Enter).
Everyone knows that a ES/IT/PT group will never reach a 300 or 400 MOQ so "breaking them down into even smaller most closely related packs" means simply sharing american MOQ with some others europeans
you are saying that each language pack will not have its separate MOQ?
you are saying that each language pack will not have its separate MOQ?
I don't know where to start answering you, because "sharing american MOQ" demonstrates that there are some very big misunderstandings here!
All buys should support 1800haven't been following as closely as I would have wished
8)
There is zero advantage to making the default set US ANSI other than silencing the people that are whining about even offering other languages, and frankly f*ck them.
While I agree with lysol's sentiment, I also think that since US buyers will be the majority, US may as well be the base set. Just for ease of discussion, if nothing else. Removing the US only keys from sets going to ISOans might make sense if it saves a significant amount of money (which would leave those buyers with more money to spend on language set(s)), but I'm really not sure that it would be significant.I was thinking about something similar to that as you're making it very separate then wouldn't ANSI user just buy what they need and move on?
While I agree with lysol's sentiment, I also think that since US buyers will be the majority, US may as well be the base set. Just for ease of discussion, if nothing else. Removing the US only keys from sets going to ISOans might make sense if it saves a significant amount of money (which would leave those buyers with more money to spend on language set(s)), but I'm really not sure that it would be significant.I was thinking about something similar to that as you're making it very separate then wouldn't ANSI user just buy what they need and move on?
Or would making the majority set as base so it lessens the cost for the ANSI users and maybe free up some funds to help other language/layout sets, though like Soarer said it might not be significant
Overall I think for novelty sake people will help with language packs but the main problem is other layouts and reaching their MOQ some will really need assistance from the community to make it work
So now we are ANSI bashing?
While ISO may in fact be used in "more countries" than ANSI (although I'm not certain of even that), I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of computer users (population) on this PLANET use ANSI keyboards. Let's see, which countries use ISO keyboards? EU member states. Which countries use ANSI keyboards? Here's a partial list: USA, Canada, Mexico, China, India, Russia, Australia, probably all of the Middle East and most of Africa.
Anyone have any FACTS to dispute this? I'm open to discussion.
I'm not saying majority rules here, and f*ck everyone else. I'm all for being inclusive, and adding language options where is makes sense. But making a blanket statement that most keyboard users are ISO users is incorrect.
Maybe I will just sit it out and let someone else try to organize it.Please don't.
Maybe I will just sit it out and let someone else try to organize it.
Are you sure? I mean I could turn it over to make it ROUND5 and it can have 937 options that you have to order in hexidecimal and finish in 2113... :p
The community is a hell of a lot more likely to grow, if the current membership is not taken as representative of the world.
ANSI is not the majority. It's not ANSI bashing I'm trying to do here, its support greater spread of our hobby by making it easier for other people to join with less compromise.
As to facts, check Gartner figures on computer sales 2011 shows approx 25% were north America.
Check Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout and just scroll the layouts looking at the enter keys... More places follow ISO than ANSI
ISO is an international standard.
Looking at your list:
USA ANSI
Canada ANSI and ISO for French or the Canadian multilingual layout which is also ISO French speakers are a fair proportion of the population
Mexico; Latin American Spanish ISO layout
Australia, lookup an aus site selling laptops and you'll see an ISO layout. all of the Middle East and most of Africa, as well as China, India, Russia, need to use very different character sets and typically have modified layouts, often using big ass enter keys. To use ANSI in China means pinyin entry, not likely the ideal to not even use your native characters.
the number of Australian ISO users that are actually on GH/DT would number less than 5, if not none.
There are two separate tasks for you and Dan as I see it...
1) Unified communications with GMK (at least at first)
2) Running the first group buy
There are plenty of people that are happy to organize group buys if we had better pricing information and such (from #1). I understand the desire to get off the ground with a good first group buy, but at the same time I'm sure they'd be happy to take as many orders as different people throw at them if money is collected and ready to pay. Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems like #1 is the most important here, yet most of the discussion is #2.
Right, and you have to be very very specific in every detail to get a quote from them on anything. So I was trying to figure out in some rough sense what something would contain first exactly before I can even get anywhere. So I was thinking we already know mod pack price, so I can submit an inquiry on white/black for the proposed base kit E R T U I O P S D F G H J K L X C V B N, numbers only numpad and for now include the function and nav keys to simplify for a ballpark, then list out all the US/GB/DK/NO/SF keys as an example language pack and see how that goes?
@jeroplane
I never claimed a direct correlation but Gartner doesn't track global or national kb sales and the equipment required to use one seemed a reasonable proxy.
Anyways, this is more frustrating than I have time or energy for. I've never claimed that ANSI is not most common on here, my point is that there is a wold beyond the borders of current membership and marginalising national differences is not helpful to growing our userbase.
How awesome would it be to get a replica of that colored keyset on the first or second page? Do you reckon that is in the range of possibilities for one of the first group buys?