GMK-electronic make cherry keycap ?

[jeroplane]

Thread is posted in IC, but waiting moderator approval.

Look forward to it Thanks for the hard work Dan.

[hashbaz]

Thread is posted in IC, but waiting moderator approval.

Approve'd

[rowdy]

So is South Park.

I wouldn't let kids watch south park. I wouldn't compare those two shows at all.

Just sayin' that South Park is messed up enough for adults to get some laughs out of it.  Definitely not a kids' show.

[Halverson]

So is South Park.

I wouldn't let kids watch south park. I wouldn't compare those two shows at all.

Just sayin' that South Park is messed up enough for adults to get some laughs out of it.  Definitely not a kids' show.

Ahh right right

[damorgue]

So, still no info on what prices/MOQ might be for full sets?

[agor]

Check out Interest Check Forum Thread

[damorgue]

Check out Interest Check Forum Thread

It isn't stated there. It was supposed to be in the big essay, and I though that the IC post was it, but apparently not.

[jdcarpe]

So, still no info on what prices/MOQ might be for full sets?

No, Dan won't bother them about full sets, yet.

[OrangeJewce]

So, still no info on what prices/MOQ might be for full sets?

No, Dan won't bother them about full sets, yet.

Because right now there is a 4 month lead time for slots to have them made.

Cheers,

[jdcarpe]

Not criticizing anyone, but I just want to say this. I work as a sales rep for a company that manufactures automation control panels for the oil and natural gas industry. From time to time, we get backlogged and have quite a long lead time on new orders. I have never refused a new order from any customer, new or established, due to backlog. I work with my sales team to quote the order and get the information to the prospective customer, so that hopefully I can close the sale with the customer. I just advise them of the lead time to be expected, so there are no surprises.

If GMK has a backlog of 12 weeks, who is to say that in 12 weeks, they won't still have such a backlog? It may even be longer, if they get a huge order, or many orders at once.

I understand that we don't want to overwhelm them with new requests. I understand the need for a single point of contact to communicate with GMK. I understand the desire to start small, and "test the waters," so to speak, with a new supplier. But this is a community forum, and I really think the community as a whole wants full sets of keycaps.

tl;dr Want info about full sets sooner, rather than later. What's the harm in asking?

[baldgye]

Not criticizing anyone, but I just want to say this. I work as a sales rep for a company that manufactures automation control panels for the oil and natural gas industry. From time to time, we get backlogged and have quite a long lead time on new orders. I have never refused a new order from any customer, new or established, due to backlog. I work with my sales team to quote the order and get the information to the prospective customer, so that hopefully I can close the sale with the customer. I just advise them of the lead time to be expected, so there are no surprises.

If GMK has a backlog of 12 weeks, who is to say that in 12 weeks, they won't still have such a backlog? It may even be longer, if they get a huge order, or many orders at once.

I understand that we don't want to overwhelm them with new requests. I understand the need for a single point of contact to communicate with GMK. I understand the desire to start small, and "test the waters," so to speak, with a new supplier. But this is a community forum, and I really think the community as a whole wants full sets of keycaps.

tl;dr Want info about full sets sooner, rather than later. What's the harm in asking?

Really, you have to think about it from there point of view... they make parts of keyboards, parts that manufactures want and order on massive scales... orders that you as a company are struggling to forfill by deadlines you have set. Those customers pay alot and if you can be on good terms with will provide you a good solid income.

Then out of know-where there inbox gets flooded with random people asking if they can make sell key caps sets and asking for info on a product they arn't really set up to deal with in such small quantites, ontop of the backlog that can be fairly time consuming for them to work out and allocate time and effort into doing.

We have no real idea of how big/small this firm is, but its clear they have a fairly long backlong and its taken what, nearly a month to get this far?
They seem to be doing and moving as fast as they can while also doing there main job, best thing we can do is leave it to the people who are talking to them and for us to move slowly... becasue in the grand scheme of things, we are probally more of a headake than an actual place to make alot of money compared to the people they currentally supply.

[tjcaustin]

10 days, but for some reason it feels like it's been a lot longer. 

[The_Beast]

Not criticizing anyone, but I just want to say this. I work as a sales rep for a company that manufactures automation control panels for the oil and natural gas industry. From time to time, we get backlogged and have quite a long lead time on new orders. I have never refused a new order from any customer, new or established, due to backlog. I work with my sales team to quote the order and get the information to the prospective customer, so that hopefully I can close the sale with the customer. I just advise them of the lead time to be expected, so there are no surprises.

If GMK has a backlog of 12 weeks, who is to say that in 12 weeks, they won't still have such a backlog? It may even be longer, if they get a huge order, or many orders at once.

I understand that we don't want to overwhelm them with new requests. I understand the need for a single point of contact to communicate with GMK. I understand the desire to start small, and "test the waters," so to speak, with a new supplier. But this is a community forum, and I really think the community as a whole wants full sets of keycaps.

tl;dr Want info about full sets sooner, rather than later. What's the harm in asking?

I'm in somewhat of the same position. When we are backlogged, we don't refuse customers or new quotes on orders no matter if it's a first time customer or one of our longest customers. It's called a backlog for a reason

[damorgue]

I find it a bit irrational as well. If company neglects new customers when they have a backlog until there is none, then they will create a gap in their production. They need to plan and accept orders for when their production is currently estimated to clear up. SP might have a shorter lead time, but just because GMK has a longer delay from order until production, or have a full schedule at the moment does not mean that they won't plan or discuss orders at all. If they are the type of company who has a lot of security invested by having longer lead times, that does not change the fact that a customer has to get in anyway to even get the slot in 4 months.

Of course, DangWang knows their option much better, but this is what I have gathered from what has been relayed here. Did they explicitly tell you that they wouldn't discuss orders and quotes meant for when their production clears up?

[IvanIvanovich]

See here is the thing. We are still planning out how the full sets are going to work. Due to the VAST amount of languages we are not going to just be like oh, well US ANSI only, sorry world. We also don't want to have a zillion order choices either. This means we need to make out an extensive and detailed list of how many different legends there are and so on before we can submit that for quotes. Right now I have gotten this far,
DK/GB/NO/SF/US (Denmark, Britain, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish and US layouts)
CH/DE/HU/SK/TS (Swiss, German, Hungarian, Slovakian and Czech layouts)
ES/IT/PO (also include South American ES/PO variants) /BE/FR (Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Belgian/French layouts)
and am still working on more language for a fourth group. I plan on having a maximum of 4 language group sets. Full sets will include many sizes of keys for various keyboard layouts as well, similar to the modifier packs.
 Alternately if there are other ideas that DON'T involve having a f*ckton of options please feel free to make some suggestions. I have no interest in turning it into something confusing and difficult to manage. Yes you will have extra keys you won't use. But, keep in mind this way you will be helping others get keys for their layout they might not be able to get if it was a stand alone option, true community style.

[hashbaz]

Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.

Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?

[IvanIvanovich]

Not for US user. For everyone else it is of no real benefit. I don't really see the point in doing it if it's not going to get done right and so everyone has the chance to get what they need. For those that don't want to wait and don't mind possibly paying a higher price there are likely to be US ANSI sets from vendors sooner. Due to the MOQ likely being similar for full sets as the modifier packs we are starting with, we need all the help getting to those levels as we can. Having more languages seems like one of the best ways to do that to me as well.

These are merely my thoughts on the matter, and I know I am not always right.

[Batmann]

I'm starting to get familiar with GB but I'm still wondering,
400 MOQ seems high, has it already been achieved on the most popular sets?

[hashbaz]

Due to the MOQ likely being similar for full sets as the modifier packs we are starting with, we need all the help getting to those levels as we can. Having more languages seems like one of the best ways to do that to me as well.

I hope this is true, though when I read about tons of language kits my thoughts naturally wander to 7bit and R4.  Though I suppose they should also wander to R3 which was a success.

[IvanIvanovich]

Which is why I suggested to have many languages, but only actually 4 set choice, so it dosen't turn into a huge confusing clusterf*ck. Find your language, choose the set. Seems simple enough no?

[kbdfr]

[…] Yes you will have extra keys you won't use. But, keep in mind this way you will be helping others get keys for their layout they might not be able to get if it was a stand alone option, true community style.

That's not the only aspect, and youy will not just give, but also receive: orders taking on board Europeans will achieve higher numbers and thus lower rates. This will benefit all.

I for one would take part in a group buy with just the few (non-US) keycaps I want and pay for all those many useless (useless to me, of course) stuff you want. If "my" keycaps are not considered in the group buy, though, of course I won't take part and this way you loose one contributor to "your" keycaps, which will make them more expensive. Or even lead to missing the MOQ.

[tjcaustin]

Forgive me for helping with the pot stirring, but couldn't you submit a basic full set just to get pricing and MOQ requirements now? If not, that's cool, just curious.

[IvanIvanovich]

Yes, exactly. It's a mutual benefit all around.
Sure, we could submit a quote for only one language layout, but that could have totally different MOQ and pricing would not be necessarily indicative of what we want to achieve.

[tjcaustin]

That argument has a bit of a catch 22 to it though, because (assumption time) more keys=more $ per set.  Not saying it means an equivalent exchange, just sayin'.

Note:  This aluminum space bar does not like cherry stabilizers...

[IvanIvanovich]

Look at difference between CMYK set and full modifier pack. There is more key but not much of price difference.

[tjcaustin]

True, and it doesn't sound like they have tiered MOQ like SP.

[IvanIvanovich]

Nope, it's all on case by case basis for details on a specific order. Change detail, price change. It could be insignificant or drastic.
Also think of other possibilities. Say someone order colorway X and you order colorway Z. One is ANSI user, one ISO. I expect many trade opportunities there.

[dirge]

Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.

Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?

It would be terrible.  Put a German set of caps on your keyboard. You're never going to be happy with it...

[baldgye]

Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.

Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?

It would be terrible.  Put a German set of caps on your keyboard. You're never going to be happy with it...

I'm happy with mine... though mostly becasue in my head when I'm typing, I'm an angry german woman...

[aggiejy]

I'd still like to know the price of a ANSI + ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash though.  Regardless of what is planed for this full group buy, I'm sure there are others that WILL do  less international-friendly groups as well.  Lower prices, easier to reach MOQ.  (Which, as others have said, MOQ is a myth... it could easily be a reduced MOQ with higher prices if needed.)  I doubt everyone will want to wait until the spring to get new group buys rolling.  So sooner we get pricing for full sets (both the ANSI+ISO & and one you guys are talking about) the sooner we can start getting stuff going.

The only logical reason to wait would be to see if there are quality issues.  (Which is possible, even if they use the same molds.)  Or not to "bother" the sales guy which seems to be the main concern.  But honestly, that's his job... regardless of what type of clients he's accustomed to working with.  I can see trying to minimize tire kickers (pestering) by consolidating communication, but if you're not getting the information that everyone wants, then others will start asking instead.  Alternatively, if we know what a full set costs and the min MOQ, then no further communication with them is required beyond checking on colors.

Regardless, I can respect that you guys are trying to do what you think is best, and perhaps there's more involved than has been shared here.  But, Dan says he plans to ask "in a couple of weeks", so I guess well get there.  Just be sure to ask about the ANSI+ISO too.  Or someone else will.

[jdcarpe]

Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.

Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?

It would be terrible.  Put a German set of caps on your keyboard. You're never going to be happy with it...

Orly? Stupid G80-3800 caps lock...



Terrible potato pic

[Alessandro]

I <3 this thread.

[rayuki]

See here is the thing. We are still planning out how the full sets are going to work. Due to the VAST amount of languages we are not going to just be like oh, well US ANSI only, sorry world. We also don't want to have a zillion order choices either. This means we need to make out an extensive and detailed list of how many different legends there are and so on before we can submit that for quotes. Right now I have gotten this far,
DK/GB/NO/SF/US (Denmark, Britain, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish and US layouts)
CH/DE/HU/SK/TS (Swiss, German, Hungarian, Slovakian and Czech layouts)
ES/IT/PO (also include South American ES/PO variants) /BE/FR (Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Belgian/French layouts)
and am still working on more language for a fourth group. I plan on having a maximum of 4 language group sets. Full sets will include many sizes of keys for various keyboard layouts as well, similar to the modifier packs.
 Alternately if there are other ideas that DON'T involve having a f*ckton of options please feel free to make some suggestions. I have no interest in turning it into something confusing and difficult to manage. Yes you will have extra keys you won't use. But, keep in mind this way you will be helping others get keys for their layout they might not be able to get if it was a stand alone option, true community style.

so where is all this so called interest for this sort of stuff? are there other geekhack style forums with hundreds of people calling out for these options? because that is what will be needed. with moq of 400+ i dont see this a very good road to go down for it to be successful.

im with hash on this i think all the extra language options are gonna sink the effort i just dont see there being enough interest from all those other languages for it to meet MOQ.

[fruktstund]

Sigh ... I hope the myriad language options don't sink this effort.

Honestly, for starters, would it be so terrible to just do ANSI + an ISO Shift, Enter, and Backslash?

It would be terrible.  Put a German set of caps on your keyboard. You're never going to be happy with it...

You'd never be happy, but the keyboard would grow a beard though.

(Makes me wonder if it's only among my friends we're joking about German women having beards or if it's all of Sweden. lol)

[IvanIvanovich]

I also have DE/RU set on ANSI board. I have other DE, FR, SP, and IT set as well, and generally only use ANSI boards. I find the ISO layout less friendly, especially for gaming with that small left shift. I think it would be interesting to have a selection of 1.5 key for ansi that have example #' or *µ to replace where the \| goes on US.

I know lot of people are excited about sets and want them RIGHT NOW, but we need to just relax a little bit. Things are happening, but it take some time.
Even though I am an ANSI user, I am tired of everything being so US centric. I can't imagine how the Europeans feel. Just because YOU don't use a particular layout doesn't mean that there are not potentially hundred people that would. As hard as it is to get caps for some layout, I have a feeling some people will be pouring out of the woodwork for some options, but that is also speculation.

If I end up being wrong, then I am wrong and we can adjust focus to what there is demand for. It's better to downsize, then find out we need to upsize.

[tjcaustin]

I <3 this thread.

Not as much as this thread <3 you.  We talked earlier over tea and it was talking about how it wanted to tell you that.

I also have DE/RU set on ANSI board. I have other DE, FR, SP, and IT set as well, and generally only use ANSI boards. I find the ISO layout less friendly, especially for gaming with that small left shift. I think it would be interesting to have a selection of 1.5 key for ansi that have example #' or *µ to replace where the \| goes on US.

I know lot of people are excited about sets and want them RIGHT NOW, but we need to just relax a little bit. Things are happening, but it take some time.
Even though I am an ANSI user, I am tired of everything being so US centric. I can't imagine how the Europeans feel. Just because YOU don't use a particular layout doesn't mean that there are not potentially hundred people that would. As hard as it is to get caps for some layout, I have a feeling some people will be pouring out of the woodwork for some options, but that is also speculation.

It's hard to believe that we only started this thread like 10 days ago and I think that's why a lot of people seem ansty.  Until I checked, it felt like we'd been communicating with them *forever*.

[Alessandro]

If this thread loves me so much, why was it having a romantic dinner with you? I think we're going to have some issues Tj...

[tjcaustin]

If this thread loves me so much, why was it having a romantic dinner with you? I think we're going to have some issues Tj...

Listen, this thread and I are just friends, it's totally likes you more and in a different way.  Like as in like likes you.  I think it's the accent.

[hashbaz]

Don't try to smother the thread Alessandro.

[jdcarpe]

Epic thread is epic

[tjcaustin]

Don't try to smother the thread Alessandro.

That's why the thread and I are just friends now, I came on too strong and now it rebuked me.

[aggiejy]

Haha.  No complaints for where we're at after 10 days.  But discussing where we need to go isn't a bad thing.  Easy to mistake discussion of future for impatience.

[tjcaustin]

I think that's part of it, too, remembering that we're all discussing things (rather civilly) and I don't think anyone is more than mildly frustrated at some things.

[DanGWanG]

As we get deeper into this interest check stage, I really do understand the importance of getting full sets outlined and quoted.  Right now my issue is really time management.  I'm dedicating many hours to this project because I'm motivated and excited about the outcome.  Some harsh realities really come into play when I see quotes in the tens of thousands of dollars and really applies a lot of pressure and stress.

At the same time, I'm trying to maintain a good relationship with GMK under such harsh timeframes.  But there's a lot of pressure from the community that really drives me to do a good job on this and provide transparent communication where I can.  Just bare with me another week, and I promise to get more information...

[jdcarpe]

We <3 U, Dan!

[aggiejy]

Indeed, sounds like we're on the same page then! That's all that matters.

[feng]

Appreciate all of your effort on doing this for us, Dan.

[WhiteFireDragon]

But... why can't I have like now? like... tomorrow!

[agor]

You guys are doing a terrific job. Keep on going!

[rayuki]

I also have DE/RU set on ANSI board. I have other DE, FR, SP, and IT set as well, and generally only use ANSI boards. I find the ISO layout less friendly, especially for gaming with that small left shift. I think it would be interesting to have a selection of 1.5 key for ansi that have example #' or *µ to replace where the \| goes on US.

I know lot of people are excited about sets and want them RIGHT NOW, but we need to just relax a little bit. Things are happening, but it take some time.
Even though I am an ANSI user, I am tired of everything being so US centric. I can't imagine how the Europeans feel. Just because YOU don't use a particular layout doesn't mean that there are not potentially hundred people that would. As hard as it is to get caps for some layout, I have a feeling some people will be pouring out of the woodwork for some options, but that is also speculation.

If I end up being wrong, then I am wrong and we can adjust focus to what there is demand for. It's better to downsize, then find out we need to upsize.

i can't speak for everyone but im all for different language layouts as long as the demand is real but i just dont see it, and wondering where you got the idea from other then your own personal feelings on the topic.

feel free to go all out down this road but im just wondering where this idea/urge came from for all these different language layouts other then YOU personally. i dont see hundreds of people chimming in being all for it and like i said before if there is somewhere else you are getting this info from that there are 100's of people wanting this stuff then sure all for it...

just seems like a big leap to think there is that demand without actually finding out first.