[IC] A true GH/DT custom keyboard kit - What do you want to see?

[nguyenkimtam]

60%/65% or HHKB my friend 

[LXXXIX]

I would love a TKL, but there is already so many.

I would hope for a truly unique and functional layout. I'd be down.

[Patchwrks]

really only tkl with 1.5/1/1.5/7/1.5/1/1.5 or WKL tkl with blockers, ANSI layout

[Melvang]

If you want something that could be fairly unique but very usable, look at the software for the xwhatsit controller, and implement a GUI similar.  Probably don't need to do a direct copy, but it is very easy to setup and use.  I have spoken with xwhatsit, and he told me that it would be easy to improve the debouncing for momentary style switches.  It already works on an Atmega32u2, so working on a Teensy shouldn't be any problem.  Not only will this make programming very easy on this platform, but it will be stupid simple to expand to larger form factors, and custom jobs in the future.

Also, something I have been wanting to see for a long time, analogue dial controls for backlighting.  Want to turn you backlighting brightness, turn a dial.  This should also be able to be used for color control for RGBs.  But you would need 3 dials, one for each color of the RGB.  I know this last one is a long shot, but could provide a step of separation from the KCs.  Just my two cents.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

IC submitted. This should be an interesting project with the possible features available.

[radio_killah]

I vote we call this keyboard "Jambon"

[naasfu]

the case design looks great!  i really like the shaping for its side profile.

would mostly be interested in 65%/60% since i already have several TKLs.  i love the look of angled cases, but hopefully the case isn't too steep or tall since it would probably kill my wrists.

filled out the poll form.  btw, the black text poll link is hidden with the GH orange+white on black theme.  i only discovered there was a poll link at the top after reading through the post.

[Karura]

Looking good Photato.

I will be following this.

[WNovizar]

Another vote for 65%. I have been thinking of buying Whitefox once it drops again on massdrop, but I would rather support this insstead

[bocahgundul]

What I really despise about Korean custom keyboards: almost all of them have very steep inclination. I find steep keyboards are very unergonomic to me, which prevents me to get any Korean custom no matter how nice they are.

So if you want to get a step ahead from the Koreans, you should use flat case. Not only it is more ergonomic, it should also be cheaper as it needs less material. It is also more portable, which can be important especially for 60%s. And if people are really into angled keyboards, then it should be easy to add optional feet.

I'm too big of a fan of angled cases to do this, sorry. I find flat keyboards incredibly uncomfortable, and I find flat cases with feet to be ugly. Buy a Cheat or KMAC1

Agree would be done for a tkl

[QuickDelat]

only if iso

this

[WinterIsle]

The alpha logo looks great

[need]

no point in just doing another TKL

[CPTBadAss]

An Alps/MX compatible PCB would be lovely

[Photekq]

Current poll results for form factor :

[FoC_Tow]

Current poll results for form factor :

Show Image

Whaaat...
There were loads of ideas for a 60% custom, and now it's going to be another boring tkl?

I'm sad. ;_____;

[phosphoric]

Current poll results for form factor :

Show Image

Whaaat...
There were loads of ideas for a 60% custom, and now it's going to be another boring tkl?

I'm sad. ;_____;

i'm with FoC on this one - why go tkl? you're taking up a ton of space and ditching the functionality of a number pad. might as well just go 60% or 65%, because 60% is the perfect layout.

that being said, massdrop would ensure that everybody gets their kits at an appropriate time, but the reduction in exclusivity and my past experiences with massdrop kept me from choosing that option in the poll. the major concern i have with hosting a traditional group buy is the fact that group buys not hosted by a professional company seem to fall through fairly often, especially when the quantity is high (as i assume this kit would be). either way, it'd be pretty cool to see a geekhack/deskthority keyboard kit.

[Patchwrks]

awesome! Hope we can go wth the tkl!

[FoC_Tow]

Sorry If I came of rude in my post, but I would be pretty sad to see this ending up as another custom tkl.

I think part of the reason why most people end up voting for tkl is that they picture a 60% as the common one piece case design and can't really visualize the potential of what a truly custom 60% could look like.

There is an extrem lack of true 60% customs while the market is pretty over saturated with various custom tkl boards of all kinds.

If we want to make something really innovative and exclusive it should be something along the lines of a 60%/65% layout and not just another custom tkl clone in my mind.

After all there is less then a handful customs along those lines, and it seems to me that boards like this are actually way more rare and hard to come by.
Boards like the illusive Duck Viper/Eagle for example seem to be even more exclusive and thought after then Orion or Octagon, even tho I personally feel like they are just scratching the surface of what a truly custom 60% could be.


In my opinion the chance to make a true custom GeekHack / DeskTheory board is an amazing opportunity to create something truly unique, and show that we have the creativity and vision to create something new and amazing with the powers of so many heads and amazing people on GH combined, rather then just making another tkl.

After all innovation doesn't come from doing the same thing over and over again, and I really just feel like if we want to call something a community created custom, there should be many ideas brought together and combined rather then choosing the most obvious way of just going tkl as usual.

Something truly new would be way more exciting to me, and would also make for a lot more impressive showcase of the potential and creative powers of our communities!

[CPTBadAss]

Who gives a **** how exclusive it is? If you want to flip an exclusive board, why not just make a one-off yourself and try and sell it. I voted for the group buy option because I really like how it keeps it community-based. But it is true that a lot of GBs have gone south lately. Regardless, exclusivity shouldn't play into your decision making at all.

[asgeirtj]

In for a TKL

Sorry If I came of rude in my post, but I would be pretty sad to see this ending up as another custom tkl.

I think part of the reason why most people end up voting for tkl is that they picture a 60% as the common one piece case design and can't really visualize the potential of what a truly custom 60% could look like.

There is an extrem lack of true 60% customs while the market is pretty over saturated with various custom tkl boards of all kinds.

If we want to make something really innovative and exclusive it should be something along the lines of a 60%/65% layout and not just another custom tkl clone in my mind.

After all there is less then a handful customs along those lines, and it seems to me that boards like this are actually way more rare and hard to come by.
Boards like the illusive Duck Viper/Eagle for example seem to be even more exclusive and thought after then Orion or Octagon, even tho I personally feel like they are just scratching the surface of what a truly custom 60% could be.


In my opinion the chance to make a true custom GeekHack / DeskTheory board is an amazing opportunity to create something truly unique, and show that we have the creativity and vision to create something new and amazing with the powers of so many heads and amazing people on GH combined, rather then just making another tkl.

After all innovation doesn't come from doing the same thing over and over again, and I really just feel like if we want to call something a community created custom, there should be many ideas brought together and combined rather then choosing the most obvious way of just going tkl as usual.

Something truly new would be way more exciting to me, and would also make for a lot more impressive showcase of the potential and creative powers of our communities!

If this is logoless or has a cool logo it's not just another tkl.  For me there has been no tkl custom available which the last 2 year which is appealing to me, I don't like the tgr logo and the bezels are too big on that board, the orion has led indicators which I don't intend to use.  The mira looks good but maybe it won't be realized.  And the reason for why tkl is so popular is because it really is the perfect layout.  I've tried all the layouts and I've come to the conclusion that you need arrows so you can scratch your junk while using the arrows.  Using keyboard shortcuts for everything is a pit you don't want to enter, I use touchcursor to make my life easier when I have my hands on the main row but my hands aren't always on the main row.  It is also the layout which has no problem with classic keycap sets.  It's also the prettiest layout, the keys are not cramped and it's not huge like a full size (I admit that the viper is actually on par with it in looks though since it's essentially a snapshot of a part of the tkl but with some "skin" of the aluminum showing on the top, the aluminum showing on the top is what makes an aluminum board beautiful).  The size difference between a tkl and a 60% is also minimal and really a nonissue.  If you need a numpad you can add it. So TKL ftw!

I voted GB over store run in the poll because it seems that it's easier to guarantee yourself the board through the GB (don't know if I'm right though)

[Rafa_n]

Who gives a **** how exclusive it is? If you want to flip an exclusive board, why not just make a one-off yourself and try and sell it. I voted for the group buy option because I really like how it keeps it community-based. But it is true that a lot of GBs have gone south lately. Regardless, exclusivity shouldn't play into your decision making at all.

   Exclusivity is just anti-consumer most of the time, and just unnecessary in this case.

[FoC_Tow]

In for a TKL

Sorry If I came of rude in my post, but I would be pretty sad to see this ending up as another custom tkl.

I think part of the reason why most people end up voting for tkl is that they picture a 60% as the common one piece case design and can't really visualize the potential of what a truly custom 60% could look like.

There is an extrem lack of true 60% customs while the market is pretty over saturated with various custom tkl boards of all kinds.

If we want to make something really innovative and exclusive it should be something along the lines of a 60%/65% layout and not just another custom tkl clone in my mind.

After all there is less then a handful customs along those lines, and it seems to me that boards like this are actually way more rare and hard to come by.
Boards like the illusive Duck Viper/Eagle for example seem to be even more exclusive and thought after then Orion or Octagon, even tho I personally feel like they are just scratching the surface of what a truly custom 60% could be.


In my opinion the chance to make a true custom GeekHack / DeskTheory board is an amazing opportunity to create something truly unique, and show that we have the creativity and vision to create something new and amazing with the powers of so many heads and amazing people on GH combined, rather then just making another tkl.

After all innovation doesn't come from doing the same thing over and over again, and I really just feel like if we want to call something a community created custom, there should be many ideas brought together and combined rather then choosing the most obvious way of just going tkl as usual.

Something truly new would be way more exciting to me, and would also make for a lot more impressive showcase of the potential and creative powers of our communities!

If this is logoless or has a cool logo it's not just another tkl.  For me there has been no tkl custom available which the last 2 year which is appealing to me, I don't like the tgr logo and the bezels are too big on that board, the orion has led indicators which I don't intend to use.  The mira looks good but maybe it won't be realized.  And the reason for why tkl is so popular is because it really is the perfect layout.  I've tried all the layouts and I've come to the conclusion that you need arrows so you can scratch your junk while using the arrows.  Using keyboard shortcuts for everything is a pit you don't want to enter, I use touchcursor to make my life easier when I have my hands on the main row but my hands aren't always on the main row.  It is also the layout which has no problem with classic keycap sets.  It's also the prettiest layout, the keys are not cramped and it's not huge like a full size.  The size difference between a 60% is also minimal and really a nonissue.  If you need numpad you can add it. So TKL ftw!

I voted GB over store run in the poll because it seems that it's easier to guarantee yourself the board through the GB (don't know if I'm right though)

Sorry but if this is logoless it's just another tkl without a logo.

If tkl is the appropriate layout for you because you like to scratch your junk while using arrow keys, thats fine but Im pretty sure loads of people would have a different opinion 
One does not simply generalize whats the perfect layout for everyone based on personal experience.

My personal prefferecne is pretty much opposite to yours, and the size difference seems rather huge to me.
(even 60 vs 75% makes a huge differnce tbh)
But I don't want to argue about personal preference, as those will greatly differ.

My main point was there are way too many custom tkl boards out there already.
And making the same thing over again with a different logo and calling it a GH custom keyboard kit would not make a very inovative impression of our communities.

I don't really care what form factor it ends up as, but I would really like to see something innovative we as a community can be proud of. 

[trenzafeeds]

I don't think not choosing MD is about wanting more exclusivity, I just simply wouldn't trust them with a project like this. To be honest if Photekq was going to be managing the project, I have complete confidence that it would run smoothly.

[naasfu]

i read FoC_Tow's original post above as being for creating something unique rather than asking for a limited members only, haha we have it but you don't type item.

one interesting thing to note is that it's not easy to come up with something different that people will love.  duck recently revealed a "blackbird" design with a pretty unique mashup of layouts, and at least here, the reaction didn't seem to be very favorable at all.  most people (and to be fair, i would love one too) seemed to just want a viper re-release.

ps i'm tempted to submit more votes for 65%/60%.  (haha i won't do it.)

[switchnollie]

60/65% with winkey blockers might be nice.

Don't think I've really seen anything like that.

[FoC_Tow]

i read FoC_Tow's original post above as being for creating something unique rather than asking for a limited members only, haha we have it but you don't type item.

one interesting thing to note is that it's not easy to come up with something different that people will love.  duck recently revealed a "blackbird" design with a pretty unique mashup of layouts, and at least here, the reaction didn't seem to be very favorable at all.  most people (and to be fair, i would love one too) seemed to just want a viper re-release.

ps i'm tempted to submit more votes for 65%/60%.  (haha i won't do it.)

Thx naasfu! =)

I think (or Im hoping at least) that the hole talk about exclusivity wasn't directed at me, since this wasn't my intention at all,
I just wanted to voice my opinion for creating something unique like you've already mentioned. 

Thx for pointing out 'blackbird' to me btw as I actually hadn't seen that one until now. Its quite a crazy mashup that looks pretty interesting, but tbh I would also prefer a viper personally. 

Its probably very true that its pretty hard to come up with something innovative people will actually like in terms of layout.
But my point wasn't necessarily to create something unique in terms of layout, but rather going with a 60% hhkb style custom for example to do something that hasn't been done that much yet, and maybe throw in some fresh and innovative ideas to make it unique! 

[LXXXIX]

I voted for a TKL. Yes, there are a ton of options for TKL out there, but there's almost hundreds of other places to get a 60%. I think it's a very universal layout that will still be able to accommodate any keycaps around.

65% is a no go for me since it's no as accessable to replace keys, and 60% takes away too much. Personally if I had to get a 60% I'd go for a viper layout or something like a WKL bottom with blockers.

Thank you based pho!

[blai5000]

Ideas for features that aren't layout related:

Hot-swappable switches
RGB backlit logo
Trackball/touchpad


In terms of layout I would've preferred FC660m-style, but the Clueboard already has that covered.

[thesiscamper]

I voted TKL, since it's a pain to use anything less when working with keyboards and a mouse, like a 3D program. I'm not sure how making another 60% suddenly makes the project innovative, since it already exists. Innovation is making something new, not something uncommon.

[braidn]

I vote we call this keyboard "Jambon"

Couldn't agree with this more.

[mrboovn]

Current poll results for form factor :

Show Image

Whaaat...
There were loads of ideas for a 60% custom, and now it's going to be another boring tkl?

I'm sad. ;_____;

Same opinion.There are too many nice TKLs out there (TGR,Duck,LZ...) while just a fews interested 60% but i haven't seen any new 60% since the Eagle.
60%,65% or HHKB style would be perfect :D

[limitz]

-A weight is important for me, regardless of the form factor. Anything less, and it's a "nice" custom board, but it doesn't break into the top echelons of keyboards to me. Duck TKL's (Orion v1/2) are an in a different class than the TKL's with machined weights. It's nice, but I would never compare it to LZ/OTD... or even the TGR.

-As for 60% being the "ideal" layout as espoused by a user here, sorry I disagree. The reason I believe we haven't seen so many 60% customs is that arrow keys are a huge deal to a lot of people. You lose a lot from removing them, and I think the vast majority of ppl are more productive with dedicated arrow keys vs. a programmable function layer. 65% is a more interesting layout, due to the relative paucity of customs in this form factor. Arrow keys are nice, but at the end of the day, it's a bit too similar to 60% for my liking. Aesthetically, there's not too much separating 60/65% keyboards from each other.

-TKL would be my preferred form factor due to aesthetics. People will say "well there's so many custom TKL's already". True, but we haven't had a custom TKL from NA/EU, which is what this project is about (and the Mira as well). I can get behind that, especially if the quality/weight/machining/anodization is on par with what we've come to expect from Asia. Personally, I think it's time NA/EU produces a custom to rival the best that Asia can offer.

---

I guess the keys to the design for me:

1) A four piece design: Bottom, Plate, Top, Weight

2) Good anodization. Olive green on the TGR-Jane CE is beautiful. The pink on the 456GT is incredible. I think it's important to include the basic, black/silver/gunmetal, but also to include a color that isn't seen so much, but is vibrant and beautiful.

3) You can't eat your pudding until you eat your meat. If GH/DT wants to make a custom that can rival Korea... then the debut *must* be a TKL. Produce a TKL on the same level of LZ/OTD, and then move onto more creative layouts. Only then, can the keyboard be seen both in the West, as well as Asia as a serious design, and not just a pretender to the throne.

[Melvang]

One suggestion regarding surface finish.  Skip the anodize, everyone does it in this industry.  Go with Cerakote.  Tons of shops can do it, hell it is fairly easy to do it in your garage, oven cure temps are well within range of standard ovens, and can be sprayed with standard paint equipment as far as I know.  Film thickness is optimal at .0005"-.001" (.0127mm-.0254mm), has excellent abrasion resistance, excellent impact resistance, is a flexible bond, so if a part does bend, it doesn't flake off.  Plus best of all, subsequent runs of the same color, are actually the same color.

[jonathanyu]

option for using half-plate or no-plate.

[pexon]

I don't think not choosing MD is about wanting more exclusivity, I just simply wouldn't trust them with a project like this. To be honest if Photekq was going to be managing the project, I have complete confidence that it would run smoothly.

100% this

[Photekq]

Thanks for the recent articulate and emotive responses. I've been busy the past few days, but I've got a chance to reply now.

@FoC_Tow The poll is presenting me facts within the usergroup that has filled out the form. That usergroup does not represent the entire community, and those facts only help dictate my future actions in relation to this project. Just because TKL is polling the best does not mean I'll make a TKL.

Before I put this poll up I had in my mind : 65% > 60% > TKL, as I do agree that TKL is a form factor that has been done a lot. That said, I can see why. It offers maximum functionality without being too large; it is a safe layout for those who haven't ventured to try a smaller one. Also, we must think about compatibility with keycaps. Especially alps ones. 60% isn't so bad, but 65% can be quite problematic even for MX keycaps. TKL on the other hand is incredibly easy for both alps and MX.

You're right when you say the 60% (and even more so the 65%) market is lacking, and I'm incredibly surprised by these poll results. I would have said that the TKL market is saturated too, but evidently it isn't.

One thing I do like to bear in mind is that being unique is not always a good thing. There's a reason why TKL and 60% are hallmarks - they are functional and aesthetically pleasing layouts. I mean, Duck's newly proposed layout is incredibly unique, but I also think it's terrible. While I'd like to offer something unique, I do not think layout is something that needs to be fiddled with too much.

You should also bear in mind the aesthetics of the case. This alone does set it apart from any other TKL. With a proper logo/image it will step further away from the pack.

---

Don't bother arguing about which layout is objectively best. None of them are. It's entirely a matter of opinion. Personally I like 60% and TKL equally. You could bet that if there was one which I preferred I would be doing that without any argument.

---

@Phosphoric I know that this means little coming from the person who proposes to run the GB, but trust that I will see it through to the end. I do not abandon projects. Sometimes I genuinely forget about smaller projects, but an unfinished group buy isn't something that a moral person can forget.

---

@limitz I'm in agreement with you.

---

@Melvang Cerakote is very interesting. I will look into this. Do you know how the cost of cerakote compares to the cost of anodising? Does cerakote change the feeling of the surface to a large degree? I don't want sticky keyboards..

---

@jonathanyu Half plate yes. No plate no.

---

Slight aside from this keyboard.. Does anyone have a good knowledge of CNC mills in terms of market values of machines and what goes into installing and maintaining them? I would love to hear from you. I have about £15,000 that could be put towards one but would like to know what I'm getting myself into. I have a decent understanding of CNC milling, but the above is the (vital) knowledge that I'm missing.

[Melvang]

@photekq,

Cerakote was originally developed as a coating for firearms parts.  The primary attributes were corrosion protection, abrasion resistance, and reducing friction.  I can say without a shred of a doubt that it will not get sticky.

As far as price, I don't have a ton of experience, but I had a local shop do a room temp cure (oven cure is also available) in Robin's egg blue on a mouse pad.  This pad was 3 square feet (almost 2,800 square cm) and my cost was $107.

If you want more info, www.cerakoteguncoatings.com is the manufacturers site iirc.

[Bucky]

Cerakote is something I was really pulling for on the Mira, if it happened on this keyboard I think I would jump in.

Would be cool to have a diffuser also, similar to some Yuksti has done.

[FrostyToast]

I haven't the slightest clue why people think 60% boards are overdone in the custom market.
We have had: the duck mini 1 & 2, eagle, viper, 356mini, kmac happy. That's all I can think of.

In terms of tkl we have: koala, whale, dolphin, unicorn, orion 1 & 2, tx87, Mira, 456gt, corsa, more corsa, corsa, did I mention corsa? Then there is also kmac, kmac, kmac, more kmac, kmac. I probably missed a couple of corsas and kmacs. Then we have the Janes, cheats, LZ, more LZ, even more LZ, a few other LZs and more LZ.... Do I need to extend this list any further?

The only thing that 60% boards have in large quantities would be the aftermarket cases, but frankly, those usually don't come near the quality of a true custom kit.
Who knows? Maybe the demand for even more tkl boards is that overwhelming and we need yet another.
But, in my eyes, rarely have I ever seen a 60%/65% which lives up to the standards of a real custom kit. Hell, I can only think of 2 60% boards which are mounted to the case instead of using standoffs.

[Photekq]

I am leaning more and more towards the 60% by the way.

I think that 65 and 60% do present a real issue though : alps keycaps. The only really viable way to get a full, matching 60/65% keyset for an alps keyboard including a 1.75u spacebar and regular ansi enter is a set like alpine winter. How can we get around this issue?

[FrostyToast]

I am leaning more and more towards the 60% by the way.

I think that 65 and 60% do present a real issue though : alps keycaps. The only really viable way to get a full, matching 60/65% keyset for an alps keyboard including a 1.75u spacebar and regular ansi enter is a set like arctic winter. How can we get around this issue?

Regular ansi enter and 1.75u shift keys can be found on Apple keyboards quite easily. Though the profile and homing keys would be an issue for many.
The other likely candidate for those caps is the Focus FK series boards which also have both but use thin abs.
Furthermore, this issue will be alleviated entirely once we have aftermarket caps from Matias.
There is also a way to cut the plates such that you can support caps using both MX and ALPS stabs.

[DanielT]

I haven't the slightest clue why people think 60% boards are overdone in the custom market.
We have had: the duck mini 1 & 2, eagle, viper, 356mini, kmac happy. That's all I can think of.

In terms of tkl we have: koala, whale, dolphin, unicorn, orion 1 & 2, tx87, Mira, 456gt, corsa, more corsa, corsa, did I mention corsa? Then there is also kmac, kmac, kmac, more kmac, kmac. I probably missed a couple of corsas and kmacs. Then we have the Janes, cheats, LZ, more LZ, even more LZ, a few other LZs and more LZ.... Do I need to extend this list any further?

The only thing that 60% boards have in large quantities would be the aftermarket cases, but frankly, those usually don't come near the quality of a true custom kit.
Who knows? Maybe the demand for even more tkl boards is that overwhelming and we need yet another.
But, in my eyes, rarely have I ever seen a 60%/65% which lives up to the standards of a real custom kit. Hell, I can only think of 2 60% boards which are mounted to the case instead of using standoffs.

At last someone who thinks like me

[FoC_Tow]

I haven't the slightest clue why people think 60% boards are overdone in the custom market.
We have had: the duck mini 1 & 2, eagle, viper, 356mini, kmac happy. That's all I can think of.

In terms of tkl we have: koala, whale, dolphin, unicorn, orion 1 & 2, tx87, Mira, 456gt, corsa, more corsa, corsa, did I mention corsa? Then there is also kmac, kmac, kmac, more kmac, kmac. I probably missed a couple of corsas and kmacs. Then we have the Janes, cheats, LZ, more LZ, even more LZ, a few other LZs and more LZ.... Do I need to extend this list any further?

The only thing that 60% boards have in large quantities would be the aftermarket cases, but frankly, those usually don't come near the quality of a true custom kit.
Who knows? Maybe the demand for even more tkl boards is that overwhelming and we need yet another.
But, in my eyes, rarely have I ever seen a 60%/65% which lives up to the standards of a real custom kit. Hell, I can only think of 2 60% boards which are mounted to the case instead of using standoffs.

+1

I think we have a barely scratched the surface of whats possible with a true 60% custom kit.
An even if poll results favor tkl, I think creating something really outstanding like this will create a much bigger impact in the long run.

If this actually ends up happening I would be more then honored to get my hands on one. 

[BaconEggandCheeseBagel]

I do have to echo the sentiment re: 60% v TKL. In the end, while the polls point towards TKL, the community is definitely saturated with TKL projects/build.


The other thing to keep in mind with the 60% is that the money saved in the sheer size of the product (when it comes to machining cases) could either be translated to the purchaser (and make this a more viable custom for more people) or give more capital to spend on nicer materials, etc.

[Melvang]

I do have to echo the sentiment re: 60% v TKL. In the end, while the polls point towards TKL, the community is definitely saturated with TKL projects/build.


The other thing to keep in mind with the 60% is that the money saved in the sheer size of the product (when it comes to machining cases) could either be translated to the purchaser (and make this a more viable custom for more people) or give more capital to spend on nicer materials, etc.

Or more extravagant machining.

[BaconEggandCheeseBagel]

^ Exactly, didn't even think about that.

Look there are a few 60% custom kits and a bunch more TKL kits. The common thing amongst all the 60% custom kits is that they aren't particularly intricate in their machining. I mean, duck makes some nice products - but the only unique aspect of those builds tend to be the bottom/acrylic window.

[simonyunhe]

This is the layout I have in mind. It's similar to a 68 board with extra column, for someone who need extra keys(F rows maybe).
The design mainly for keycaps compatibility, with second bottom option you will only need extra 7u spacebar to finish the board.
I remember I saw a Korean made keyboard use this idea, sorry I can't find the picture.

[blai5000]

This is the layout I have in mind. It's similar to a 68 board with extra column, for someone who need extra keys(F rows maybe).
The design mainly for keycaps compatibility, with second bottom option you will only need extra 7u spacebar to finish the board.
I remember I saw a Korean made keyboard use this idea, sorry I can't find the picture.

Show Image

I was thinking something like this, but with only the arrows and the two top-right keys, which gives a little bit of whitespace for aesthetics:



So basically an FC660 style but with a regular-sized right shift.

[Melvang]

This is the layout I have in mind. It's similar to a 68 board with extra column, for someone who need extra keys(F rows maybe).
The design mainly for keycaps compatibility, with second bottom option you will only need extra 7u spacebar to finish the board.
I remember I saw a Korean made keyboard use this idea, sorry I can't find the picture.

Show Image

I was thinking something like this, but with only the arrows and the two top-right keys, which gives a little bit of whitespace for aesthetics:

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So basically an FC660 style but with a regular-sized right shift.

The one issue with both of these, is very non standard bottom rows.  If this is going to be a large scale group buy, I think this should be a primary concern.