geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ebacho on Sat, 15 March 2014, 22:59:04
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http://kbdlab.co.kr/index.php?mid=board_Lsno50&document_srl=133968
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my next KB!
(http://kbdlab.co.kr/files/attach/images/340/968/133/b643e0b7507b2a767f15c44306c6309c.jpg)
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Duck keeps making all these amazing keyboards! I'm a big fan :)
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GAH STOP TEMPTING ME
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omfg. i just spent so much money on ergodox + accessories.
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and I was just about to build an ergodox
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Nobody panic. These are just renders still. Our wallets have time!
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That looks way more appealing than an ErgoDox. Still not sure about going the ergo route...but I guess until this gets released, I have more time to warm up to the idea.
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not sure how anyone can not like this layout if they're fine with 60% and 75% layouts. it's the best of ergo and normal worlds.
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Oh man they've been listening to me! Personally I'd lose the function columns and the arrow mods on the side and just have a split 60 but I'm glad to see some new ergo designs coming out. Hopefully once I get some more time I can work on my PCB design.
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That looks way more appealing than an ErgoDox. Still not sure about going the ergo route...but I guess until this gets released, I have more time to warm up to the idea.
I'm not a fan of the stagger. it really helped improve my technique when using the ergodox when I first made one.
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Cheese and crackers!!!
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I'm not a fan of the stagger. it really helped improve my technique when using the ergodox when I first made one.
This comment is confusingly worded. Which stagger aren’t you a fan of? Which “it” helped you improve your technique?
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I'm not a fan of the stagger. it really helped improve my technique when using the ergodox when I first made one.
This comment is confusingly worded. Which stagger aren’t you a fan of? Which “it” helped you improve your technique?
sorry, I'm less coherant when I'm tired.
The above linked keyboard has a "staggered" layout, as opposed to a matrix layout, or some other layout (the ergodox has no horizontal stagger, for example). The word "staggered" commonly refers to horizontally staggered layouts, due to their proliferation, though vertically staggered ones such as the ergodox would qualify as well by most definitions.
What I meant is that eliminating horizontally staggered layouts helped improve my typing technique, or specifically, a non horizontally staggered layout helped.
The "it" refers specifically to the ergodox later in the sentence, and more generally to non-horizontally-staggered keyboards.
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A traditional stagger and enormous positive tilt built into the case? No thank you. Hopefully this is a very early render if it's a real product.
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I still love Ergodox than Ergo Duck. Although i never use Ergodox, I just talk about form. Maybe i 'll try Ergodox this year ;)
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Make this topre please! :thumb: :p
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Oh my God oh my God this is so beautiful
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I so want one!
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Duck just keeps pumping out amazing keyboards! :eek:
It's beautiful.. :'(
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Typewriter-like staggering and 6 on the left side? I'll pass. If I forget about ErgoDox, still Matias Ergo Pro >>> this.
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^are there actually more boards with 6 on the right side? or is it just more right for you personally?
what do you put in the 6 spot on the ergodox? just leave it empty?
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^are there actually more boards with 6 on the right side? or is it just more right for you personally?
what do you put in the 6 spot on the ergodox? just leave it empty?
Edited out. it's late and I'm not thinking straight.
Now that people keep bringing up the 6 key, and how the "proper" way to use it is on the right side...I'm finding myself hitting it with my left hand :-\. It just seems like less diagonal travel for me.
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6 is on the wrong side.
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^are there actually more boards with 6 on the right side? or is it just more right for you personally?
what do you put in the 6 spot on the ergodox? just leave it empty?
There's no 6 spot on the ergodox. 6 is the key above Y on QWERTY and it fits properly on matrix/columnar physical layouts.
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^are there actually more boards with 6 on the right side? or is it just more right for you personally?
what do you put in the 6 spot on the ergodox? just leave it empty?
Edited out. it's late and I'm not thinking straight.
Now that people keep bringing up the 6 key, and how the "proper" way to use it is on the right side...I'm finding myself hitting it with my left hand :-\. It just seems like less diagonal travel for me.
that's how I've always done it...my left hand is ALWAYS on the keyboard. for those 'middle line' keys, why bother taking my hand off of the mouse when my left hand can hit it no problem whatsoever.
There's no 6 spot on the ergodox. 6 is the key above Y on QWERTY and it fits properly on matrix/columnar physical layouts.
okay, I see what you're doing now.
you're not using a qwerty-like number row correct? as in, at least two of the -, +, and backspace keys is not on the top row (or at least not in the top right of the board)?
*yes, yes, I realize the point of the ergodox is to personalize it according to your own rules
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^are there actually more boards with 6 on the right side? or is it just more right for you personally?
what do you put in the 6 spot on the ergodox? just leave it empty?
There's no 6 spot on the ergodox. 6 is the key above Y on QWERTY and it fits properly on matrix/columnar physical layouts.
Oh. You should talk clearly before :)
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^are there actually more boards with 6 on the right side? or is it just more right for you personally?
what do you put in the 6 spot on the ergodox? just leave it empty?
There's no 6 spot on the ergodox. 6 is the key above Y on QWERTY and it fits properly on matrix/columnar physical layouts.
Oh. You should talk clearly before :)
wat.
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It seems to me if someone comes up with a split keyboard, there will always be someone who 'loses out' on the 6 key. If you are going to use the board all the time, you'll get used it quick enough.
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^are there actually more boards with 6 on the right side? or is it just more right for you personally?
what do you put in the 6 spot on the ergodox? just leave it empty?
There's no 6 spot on the ergodox. 6 is the key above Y on QWERTY and it fits properly on matrix/columnar physical layouts.
Oh. You should talk clearly before :)
wat.
I can't think that you 're talking "6" keycaps lol =))
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So tempting...
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If it didn't have all those extra keys on the left and right, I'd definitely grab it. As is though, it's not really up my alley.
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wow, gonna be my next buy.
Thanks for sharing this.
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Sigh...
It's not Ergo if it's staggered qwerty
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Sigh...
It's not Ergo if it's staggered qwerty
Matias, Microsoft and a bunch of other companies would disagree.
Man I hate the Ergodox circlejerk around here. If you're not interested then why post? I don't go into Ergodox saying how much I hate matrix layouts.
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The ErgoDox has plenty of room for improvement, not the least of which is availability and price. It's very disappointing every time a company announces one of these half-hearted ergo keyboards instead of a really transformative product.
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Sigh...
It's not Ergo if it's staggered qwerty
Matias, Microsoft and a bunch of other companies would disagree.
Man I hate the Ergodox circlejerk around here. If you're not interested then why post? I don't go into Ergodox saying how much I hate matrix layouts.
Why? Can you let me know reason?
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Thank goodness it's a render. Last thing I need right now is another board to shred my wallet. :-[
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This might be my end game.........
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whoa! nice! if it's not ridiculous in pricing, I might go for this!
But the real question is... Where is the space bar...? :eek:
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whoa! nice! if it's not ridiculous in pricing, I might go for this!
But the real question is... Where is the space bar...? :eek:
Korean custom ergo keyboard with a metal case - take a guess about the price ;)
Those two shifts probably act as spacebars.
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whoa! nice! if it's not ridiculous in pricing, I might go for this!
But the real question is... Where is the space bar...? :eek:
Korean custom ergo keyboard with a metal case - take a guess about the price ;)
Those two shifts probably act as spacebars.
The way I see it, you're basically paying for 2 60% customs. So take the price of one of them and double that - guessing around $475, but could be higher or lower depending on various factors.
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Matias, Microsoft and a bunch of other companies would disagree.
Man I hate the Ergodox circlejerk around here. If you're not interested then why post? I don't go into Ergodox saying how much I hate matrix layouts.
Hey, sorry I didn't mean to step on anybody's toes. I probably could have worded that better. It's no secret that I definitely prefer the ErgoDox layout to a standard QWERTY (it's not a matrix, btw, it's actually called "columnar").
I guess what I was trying to say is that doing nothing but splitting a standard layout is pretty much the bare minimum that can be done to increase ergonomics. While I applaud Duck (not to mention Matias) for moving in the direction, but just as I commented on the Matias thread, I think that more could be done. Also, I used Microsoft's Natural line of keyboards for 10 years, so I'm very familiar with what Microsoft considers ergonomic.
Regardless, that is a definitely sexy board. It's all love around here!!
PS: I'm genuinely curious, have you tried an ErgoDox? I definitely don't think that it's the perfect keyboard (far from it), but I, and many others, feel that it's a great improvement over standard layouts. Much in the same way that most of us here feel that mechanical keyboards are an improvement over rubber domes.
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^are there actually more boards with 6 on the right side? or is it just more right for you personally?
what do you put in the 6 spot on the ergodox? just leave it empty?
There's no 6 spot on the ergodox. 6 is the key above Y on QWERTY and it fits properly on matrix/columnar physical layouts.
See, I never understood this. The offset between those rows is 0.5 so the 6 is above Y and F in Dvorak, or between T and Y in QWERTY. This is why you see it both ways in ergo boards. I know a lot of your people are set in your ways, but I feel like it'd be easy to get used to either way. I know it was for me when I had an ergodox.
Sigh...
It's not Ergo if it's staggered qwerty
It's fully programmable, so you pick any layout you want (not just QWERTY). I think you're right about the stagger, but the real factor is the extreme slope of 11 degrees. That said, it's an awesome looking keyboard, and probably somewhat wore ergonomic than a normal one. I wouldn't get it for its ergonomic aspects, but rather for other reasons.
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If it'll be possible to tent it, the angle shouldn't be that much of an issue, although it's still big. OTOH it'd be rather difficult to fix the asymmetric stagger, only limit its effect, but see, humans are essentially symmetric, but those keyboards aren't. I understand it as more of a philosophical argument (possibly similar to your objections to Colemak).
Offset on the number row is different from offset on the other rows. That's why I've always struggled with reaching to the parenthesis and such symbols, while touch typing. In the end, I develop my own fingering technique, but it was a workaround... again.
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This is the first so called ergonomic keyboard I really like. Does someone have a link to a place with information on the board in English?
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Make this topre please! :thumb: :p
Maybe both, cherry and topre. If they want to make two different developments though.
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This is the first so called ergonomic keyboard I really like. Does someone have a link to a place with information on the board in English?
^ +1
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Make this topre please! :thumb: :p
Maybe both, cherry and topre. If they want to make two different developments though.
Its pretty much impossible to make DIY topre at this point.
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I just hope this does not cost a fortune. The renders show what appears to be an aluminum case. Awghh!
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I just hope this does not cost a fortune. The renders show what appears to be an aluminum case. Awghh!
It will have an aluminum case. It's basically an ergo version of the Orion TKL (or the LightSaver), so expect a similar or higher price.
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I just hope this does not cost a fortune. The renders show what appears to be an aluminum case. Awghh!
Its going to be at least $300, more towards $500 range.
Duck is pretty much 100% aluminum, and while for other boards he made you could get a different case, this one you can only get from him
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I just hope this does not cost a fortune. The renders show what appears to be an aluminum case. Awghh!
It will have an aluminum case. It's basically an ergo version of the Orion TKL (or the LightSaver), so expect a similar or higher price.
My dreams had blown away. I'll stick with my humble Leo then.
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This is the first so called ergonomic keyboard I really like. Does someone have a link to a place with information on the board in English?
^ +1
You guys do realize that there is only one post on this anywhere. Translate the page, but as you can see the verbal information is sparse; the pictures tell the story. This is relatively common to see on the Korean keyboard forums and websites.
I hope it does get made. If so you'll be able to see lots more information and pictures. Lots of pictures.
I just hope this does not cost a fortune. The renders show what appears to be an aluminum case. Awghh!
It will have an aluminum case. It's basically an ergo version of the Orion TKL (or the LightSaver), so expect a similar or higher price.
Closer to the orion than the lightsaver. The orion has a two piece case (and a price to match) whereas the lightsaver and duck mini have just a single piece "tub" case. This will be awesome, but not cheap
I just hope this does not cost a fortune. The renders show what appears to be an aluminum case. Awghh!
It will have an aluminum case. It's basically an ergo version of the Orion TKL (or the LightSaver), so expect a similar or higher price.
My dreams had blown away. I'll stick with my humble Leo then.
You will likely be able to get just the PCBs at a reasonable price. Duck (in partnership with kbd4u) has offered this in the past on all their models
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I just hope this does not cost a fortune. The renders show what appears to be an aluminum case. Awghh!
It will have an aluminum case. It's basically an ergo version of the Orion TKL (or the LightSaver), so expect a similar or higher price.
My dreams had blown away. I'll stick with my humble Leo then.
You will likely be able to get just the PCBs at a reasonable price. Duck (in partnership with kbd4u) has offered this in the past on all their models
The problem with that is where are you going to get a case? DIY it? At least with the 60% and tkl duck sets you can easily get cases elsewhere
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The problem with that is where are you going to get a case? DIY it?
Of course.
I would just get some metal bolts and make legs for it out of those. You can also tent it to your specification.
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did he forget cables?
I was under the impression metal cases were really annoying for BT keyboards. not that wireless boards are even very popular.
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It is likely not possible to properly render the cables, and they were simply omitted.
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well, i don't see any cutouts for them either. did anyone else see them?
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It is a nice looking board. Super simple. I wonder if they'll make a version without the left hand cluster (those always screw me up whenever I try to hit control or escape).
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It is a nice looking board. Super simple. I wonder if they'll make a version without the left hand cluster (those always screw me up whenever I try to hit control or escape).
What about those SP locks?
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Oooo. Perhaps this will make up for me missing out on the Lightsaver :)
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I'm with you on the left hand cluster. I'm sure I COULD learn to handle it, but even a larger than normal base tends to screw with my ESC-mashing so I'm not 100% confident.
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You could always remap Esc to the top left key. Are these fully programmable btw?
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It is a nice looking board. Super simple. I wonder if they'll make a version without the left hand cluster (those always screw me up whenever I try to hit control or escape).
What about those SP locks?
Hmmm maybe, but then I have non-functioning keys on my board, and that would dive me crazy
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You could always remap Esc to the top left key. Are these fully programmable btw?
If they are, that would definitely be a viable solution.
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Staggered roll is not ergonomic
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I can't wait to buy this!, er oh wait, it's not programmable, staggered keys, nvm no thanks. It should be renamed classicDuck.
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I can't wait to buy this!, er oh wait, it's not programmable, staggered keys, nvm no thanks. It should be renamed classicDuck.
It is probably programmable, as Duck's other keyboards are as well: http://duck0113.tistory.com/84
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I would had bought it if it wasnt for the estimated price. Thats more pretty expensive...
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um. any update?
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um. any update?
There's a good chance it won't even get made. Even if it does, I wouldn't expect an update for some months.
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um. any update?
There's a good chance it won't even get made. Even if it does, I wouldn't expect an update for some months.
Thats too bad.
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Sigh...
It's not Ergo if it's staggered qwerty
i agree. this would be tempting if it wasnt for the staggered layout. kmac quality and case options are awesome but once you get use to a matrix layout it is just so much better. who knows maybe these guys will have a pcb variant that is matrix style. doubt it though.
does anyone else have issues trying to access the link on the OP?
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Sigh...
It's not Ergo if it's staggered qwerty
i agree. this would be tempting if it wasnt for the staggered layout. kmac quality and case options are awesome but once you get use to a matrix layout it is just so much better. who knows maybe these guys will have a pcb variant that is matrix style. doubt it though.
does anyone else have issues trying to access the link on the OP?
I think staggered is fine, as long as it's split, because you can just turn the board so it more/less replicates column-ar in terms of key spacing..
I think the primary issue with this board will be Tilting option.. it seems easy enough to do.. but being koreans, and how they're obsessed with right angles... they might forget...
without tenting capability, this ergoduck would just be a 2 piece paper weight..
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stainless steal angled handwells in a two part kustom ergo board with a 62g ergoclear matrix layout and R3 SA Dolch caps.
(http://thegboatdotnet.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/mind-blown1.gif?w=479)
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Their site is down I guess? I haven't been able to access it. I blame you guys :p
This might be my end game.........
You had better not groupbuy this before the eagle/viper one! I'm on to you Elton :))
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i still say a split board is miles more ergonomic than nothinf. it might not be everything ergo, but it's something ergo
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Looks good. Duck comes out with so many miles products hopefully this one goes into production.
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This kills the wallet.
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Sold. "Throws money at screen"
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so much gooding, so little money :(
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any news on this?
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seems like 3 months will be the earliest possible. duck seems to want to finish the whole 'lightsaver' stack (lightsaver, orion, eagle/viper).
I REALLY like the look of this, but I'm not sure I want it to go into production and be tempted :S
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seems like 3 months will be the earliest possible. duck seems to want to finish the whole 'lightsaver' stack (lightsaver, orion, eagle/viper).
I REALLY like the look of this, but I'm not sure I want it to go into production and be tempted :S
Ditch your ergodox for ergoduck. :))
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I will end up with 3 gh60's in the end, but this would be my ideal perfect keyboard for my office @ work.
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I will end up with 3 gh60's in the end, but this would be my ideal perfect keyboard for my office @ work.
Yeah I'd love one of these but I'm pretty sure I'd stick with 60% boards on my other machines, would be a pain having the two pieces plus a mouse when I'm gaming on the telly.
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whoa, i'd totally get one
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It's atrocious. Stag-werty is such a gross layout.
Qwerty master race
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It's atrocious. Stag-werty is such a gross layout.
Qwerty master race
What’s stag-werty?
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It's atrocious. Stag-werty is such a gross layout.
Qwerty master race
What’s stag-werty?
I believe i's a neologism: a portmanteau of staggered and qwerty.
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correct
The Ergodox is a good example, though I think it's a better executed one than this.
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correct
The Ergodox is a good example, though I think it's a better executed one than this.
So you mean column-staggered QWERTY? I thought you might mean e.g. a symmetric row stagger.
The particular keyboard we’re talking about seems to just use a standard Sholes (1/2, 1/4, 1/2) key row stagger, so I’m confused by the apparent contradiction between “It's atrocious” and “Qwerty master race”.
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I was curious about this also. it looks like standard qwerty to me except for the extra left keys, the short right shift and extra right keys.
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Any updates on this?
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Is that a split spacebar Duck? Help guys, I am dying over here.
Also, split spacebar dolch? Is this heaven?
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yeah the spacebars are shift keys :)
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Is that a split spacebar Duck? Help guys, I am dying over here.
Also, split spacebar dolch? Is this heaven?
It's just a render. I'm not sure if GMK can make spacebars in that size.
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Is that a split spacebar Duck? Help guys, I am dying over here.
Also, split spacebar dolch? Is this heaven?
It's just a render. I'm not sure if GMK can make spacebars in that size.
Those spacebars are apparently shiftkey sized, so a flipped blank shift might work....
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Whatever-size DSA caps work pretty well for spacebars, I find (even if the rest of the caps are cherry or DCS or whatever profile). I’d recommend using those instead of cylindrical-profile shift keys, flipped or not.
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Why isn't this made yet.
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Is that a split spacebar Duck? Help guys, I am dying over here.
Also, split spacebar dolch? Is this heaven?
It's just a render. I'm not sure if GMK can make spacebars in that size.
iirc, ivan said the smallest spacebar that GMK made is 6.25x
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Is that a split spacebar Duck? Help guys, I am dying over here.
Also, split spacebar dolch? Is this heaven?
It's just a render. I'm not sure if GMK can make spacebars in that size.
iirc, ivan said the smallest spacebar that GMK made is 6.25x
Yep. They can do blank shifts though so this layout wouldn't be a problem for them.
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The only thing I would add is some slots in the center contacting walls for magnets.
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The only thing I would add is some slots in the center contacting walls for magnets.
That would be really practical! Cool and simple idea. Do you know in any other keyboard has such an solution?
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No other keyboards have magnets as far as I know. KMAC has that connecting bar you can screw on the bottom to hold the numpad and keyboard together though.
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The only thing I would add is some slots in the center contacting walls for magnets.
This would make me buy it, even if I'm not entirely sold on the layout.
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I would love one of these things. Commenting for future reference :thumb:
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What do you think the price point would be on this thing if it ever gets released?
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What do you think the price point would be on this thing if it ever gets released?
$400-500usd roughly, judging on similar custom keyboards and accounting for 2 CNC cases.
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What do you think the price point would be on this thing if it ever gets released?
$400-500usd roughly, judging on similar custom keyboards and accounting for 2 CNC cases.
Wowza, a little out of my price range right now. Thanks!
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What do you think the price point would be on this thing if it ever gets released?
$400-500usd roughly, judging on similar custom keyboards and accounting for 2 CNC cases.
Wowza, a little out of my price range right now. Thanks!
You have time!
These are still renders and no timeline is currently known, or IF these will even go into production.
Also my cost is an estimate, I imagine they'd aim it as low as possible.
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I want one. Where can I order/When will it be shipped?
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Holy necromancy.
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Epic necro Phenix. :))
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Thanks, just interested in.
A... bit :))
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Looks pretty interesting, I'm not sure how it would to transition from the keyboard I have now.
It also seems like it could get annoying because im on OCD freak about alignment :D