Author Topic: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]  (Read 73248 times)

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Offline openkeydesign

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  • Posts: 8
[IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 09:42:38 »
Less But Better
A cherry profile dyesub keycap set

Hi, this is Killer from OpenkeyDesign. And we are a group of keyboard enthusiasts. We got a lot of inspirations from Dieter Rams' design so we decide to design our first keycap set as a tribute.

Here are the kits
-

-

-

-

-

-

-

We are still working on the renderings with keyboards, so please give us some more time. And we may not have time to reply you all, but your comments and suggestions will make this keycap set better. Thank you very much!

Renderings
Please be noticed that these renderings are just for illustration purposes only. We will put more work on details with EPBT next.


Thanks to Hineybush, we use most of mx keycap 3D models made by him.


Manufacturer: EPBT
Vendor: kbdfans
GB Date: TBD

History Log:
[2020/11/22]Initial IC was submitted .
[2020/11/29]Manufacturer and Vendor were confirmed.
[2020/12/2]Update renderings.
« Last Edit: Wed, 02 December 2020, 22:49:43 by openkeydesign »

Offline hali

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 09:45:01 »
loving how clean and unique this feels already

Offline yoot

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 09:49:17 »
This looks pretty good. Any info on manufacturer?

Offline cijanzen

  • Posts: 604
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 09:50:01 »
I see the inspiration clearly and I appreciate the use of those iconic calculator colours but I’d be concerned that you’ll have a difficult time with such a thin font weight. Perhaps dye-sub has gotten better but I can’t imagine they’ll be able to achieve such consistent strokes very easily.

Offline Janoma

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 09:52:10 »
Extra B please

Looks nice, not really digging the novelties.

Offline hayt

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:09:50 »
Pretty cool

Offline nico.psd

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:10:56 »
I like the number of possible novelties that could make this board feel unique while carrying the minimalism aesthetic. Really interesting set, will be watching! Would also be nice to own a Cherry profile set.

Offline gnho

  • Posts: 147
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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:27:53 »
Can the mods have either icon or text since simplicity is the goal?

Offline mengsicheng

  • Posts: 5
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:36:33 »
Really impressive design!  I also need an extra B for my ergo. Anyway, do you consider a plan to design mats for this theme?

Offline Fearian

  • Posts: 9
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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:52:15 »
Really nice design. I do dig the novelties, but I think you will have to show them in situ to sell people on it.

One problem for me: The R2 Pg Up key for 65 & 75% boards is missing it's corresponding R3 Pg Down! I would like to see a 75% compatible "Home, PgUp, PgDown, End" stack in the extras. Having 3 novelty sets but not supporting 65% feels like this is more concept than function.

Offline ggggggg

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:52:42 »
I'd like icon only mods personally, but text only would be cool as well. On that note, the shift symbol looks like a control symbol to me. Love the b&w novelties.

Offline lush_bunny

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:55:09 »
yo this looks cleeean. But with lines that thin, wouldn't dyesub sort of... bleed out?

Offline Jefff

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 10:56:35 »
Very interesting! I'm not a huge fan of the font, but the theme and execution is amazing!

Offline packman86

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 11:03:42 »
Very intriguing! Looking forward to seeing updates to this.

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Offline Macmutant

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 11:51:18 »
I love the clean aesthetic. Looking forward to seeing how the design develops.

Offline wolverine92

  • Posts: 27
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 12:11:05 »
Are you considering an ortho set as well?

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Offline Disintro

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 12:17:35 »
Quite a good minimalistic set. I quite like the lower case legends. Good job!

Offline prkns

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 12:44:46 »
Really like this idea... definitely keeping an eye on it 👍

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 13:36:16 »
Good luck
treeleaf64: https://discord.gg/rbUjtsRG6P

This is the cat and pat!!!!!!!!

Offline Lenux

  • Posts: 102
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 13:45:58 »
Really fine looking keyset ! Glwic !!!

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Offline macclack

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 18:27:18 »
Bravo. I will purchase this if it goes to GB. GL

Offline iindigo

  • Posts: 103
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 19:53:58 »
Nice, very clean, and it's always refreshing to see sets that use non-standard icons + typeface.

Offline samanth

  • Posts: 15
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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 20:03:36 »
Extra B for Alice / em7 like layouts pls.

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Offline santela

  • Posts: 227
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 20:45:58 »
Very clean and minimalistic, I'm digging it.

Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 21:03:13 »
Chicken enjoy, buck buck
seems like a lot though shrugs

Offline Dafraz117

  • Posts: 100
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 22:01:42 »
First off big fan of Dieter Rams and love to see a set designed around him.

Id love to see the brown and/or green accents replaced with red or cream or light grey as they are colors he used quite often in his designs. I can only think of the calculator keys being the one time he used brown and a forest green (not a bright green). Red is also quite prominent in his own home office which you can see on YouTube:
Maybe I’m wrong though.

One way could be to add mods kit with red or orange legends and a light grey background as light grey is often used in his designs. Not sure if that would look weird or not.

Would love to hear what color the keycaps would be as I think getting the right color would be important for this set. The color chosen reminds me of his 606 universal shelving system which is a nice choice.

Love everything else about the kits great work. I’ll be in for all kits no matter what you decide.


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Offline Dafraz117

  • Posts: 100
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 22:04:17 »
Oh yea and also +1 for extra b!


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Offline keebieweeb

  • Posts: 18
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 22 November 2020, 23:14:56 »
This is really nice - like a breath of fresh air


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Offline EURA

  • Posts: 20
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 23 November 2020, 00:52:25 »
Absolutely in love with this and the novelty designs! I'd like to point out that you're missing the extra "b" in the base kit, and in the caps alphas kits, the non-barred "G" should be "J" instead. I'd also like ask if it was an intentional decision to have the extra "B," in the Caps Alphas kit, be a blank instead of the actual "B?" Also, in the renders, none of the novelties are centered, but I'm not sure if that's part of the design or not?
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 November 2020, 00:55:39 by EURA »

Offline santela

  • Posts: 227
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 23 November 2020, 02:42:12 »
Btw the kitting right now has a lot of problems, but I understand this is early stage. In terms of the design I think you'll have no problem getting a lot of interest, but you might want to think about the manufacturing process. Double shot abs is probably impossible, but dye-sub pbt may also suffer from bleeding if you are gonna have thin lines like that. In the end you might have to make some compromises.

Offline i luv chuletas

  • Posts: 304
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 23 November 2020, 02:44:42 »
Love the theme and the direction behind it, but I think the icon+text mods are way too busy for the "clean" aesthetic. They detract from the overall crispiness of the theme.

Would love to see a kit for icon mods or text mods at least, otherwise beautiful work on the set man.

Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 23 November 2020, 06:00:44 »
I love the set as well but am also concerned about dye sub getting razor sharp lines on the alphas/text mods. I'd think new mold GMK would be the way to go given the popularity?

Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 23 November 2020, 06:45:18 »
Sexy stuff gentlemen, and ladies if girls contributed

Offline Dafraz117

  • Posts: 100
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 23 November 2020, 07:07:24 »
I had some other thoughts last night. Very excited with the idea and a lot of good stuff here. But a few more ideas...Dieter rams was very against using anything that was not needed aka less is more. One of his ten design principles is that it uses as little design as possible. I understand the novelties and less kits are inspired by his other designs but are they betraying his design ethos? For example I don’t think putting a speaker design on a key would be something he would do because it does not involve the function. I also think it would be very unlikely that he would put a quote like “less is more on keys”. I think the idea of novelties in general to dieter would be frowned upon. So I think the less and novelties kits are not in line with his design philosophies if that is your aim. But I see what you were doing by taking his design ideas for things like speakers and putting them on keys. So it depends on what direction you want to go. Finally if you get rid of the novelties(less/novelties) then I think with the other kits capital alphas would seem quite strange as the mods are lower case and I love the the lower case look very cool. Just some more ideas... really excited for this.


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Offline UberPlatypus

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 23 November 2020, 07:33:07 »
Really love the novelties. Such thing font is awesome however this seems difficult to achieve with a high success rate.

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Offline Vhawk

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 23 November 2020, 10:33:01 »
This as a CRP set would be WILD

Offline xiaoxiaoQAQ

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 24 November 2020, 03:08:31 »
I want.

Offline hottrout

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 24 November 2020, 05:08:19 »
Interesting.  You should crop your images tighter to allow the detail to be seen better.
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Offline kohalified

  • Posts: 62
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 24 November 2020, 20:27:14 »
Looks solid. Like the inspo.

Offline CrlaoSvloadr

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  • Location: Canada
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 24 November 2020, 21:22:09 »

Wonderful looking set, getting all the things the others didn't- and for that I am absolutely looking forward to this set!
Great job and hope to hear more from this thread!


Offline juice_pouch

  • Posts: 31
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 24 November 2020, 23:22:41 »
Agreed on the cropping, the images are 1/3 your design elements, 1/3 keys, and 1/3 emptiness. Can barely see the details without opening the images standalone in a new tab

Offline konstantin

  • Formerly constexpr
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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 25 November 2020, 04:48:16 »
Not a fan of the typographic solution you opted for here. Doesn't work well on a keycap set, imo. Some of the legends also look off-centered/misaligned.

Offline openkeydesign

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 29 November 2020, 09:09:08 »
This looks pretty good. Any info on manufacturer?

Thank you. We just confirmed the manufacturer.

Offline openkeydesign

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 29 November 2020, 09:13:43 »
Really nice design. I do dig the novelties, but I think you will have to show them in situ to sell people on it.

One problem for me: The R2 Pg Up key for 65 & 75% boards is missing it's corresponding R3 Pg Down! I would like to see a 75% compatible "Home, PgUp, PgDown, End" stack in the extras. Having 3 novelty sets but not supporting 65% feels like this is more concept than function.

We will try to improve that next. Thank you for your suggestion.

Offline openkeydesign

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Re: [IC] Less But Better
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 30 November 2020, 07:34:43 »
Extra B for Alice / em7 like layouts pls.

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Extra B will be added.

Offline mengsicheng

  • Posts: 5
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED Nov.29]
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 30 November 2020, 08:02:17 »
Great!So the next thing that I eager for is the renders.  Keep my eyes on this page and hope to see more new interesting stuff.

Offline LeoZ

  • Posts: 26
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED Nov.29]
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 30 November 2020, 10:04:44 »
lowercase best case, count me in :)

Offline openkeydesign

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.2]
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 01:52:34 »
Will continue to update renderings

Offline bansheetango

  • Posts: 55
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.2]
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 02:08:15 »
No EU vendors? :(

Offline GentooSG

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.2]
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 02:34:38 »


Personally not the biggest fan of grey on white, but I get the look. I'd go for a different typeface and pick either all symbols or all text for mods.

Offline Charks!

  • Posts: 8
  • Location: Malaysia
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.2]
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 02:51:12 »
I think there's some jumble up on the R1,R2 etc indicator in Base kit picture...can you double confirm?

Offline openkeydesign

  • Thread Starter
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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.2]
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 09:35:33 »
I think there's some jumble up on the R1,R2 etc indicator in Base kit picture...can you double confirm?

Yes. Thank you. We will make it right in the next version.

Offline Techlet

  • Posts: 46
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.2]
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 12:41:06 »
I like the overall looks of this set. However, none of the text only mod keys are horizontally/vertically centered where you would normally expect them to be. For example, escape and the R4 mods in the base kit all sit low; and R1 delete, end, page down all sit high and to the right.

Is this an issue with the renders or are the keys meant to be like this?

Offline openkeydesign

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.2]
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 02 December 2020, 23:06:37 »
No EU vendors? :(

Kbdfans could accept orders from EU I think.

Offline bansheetango

  • Posts: 55
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 03 December 2020, 04:05:00 »
They do, import is a hassle though.

Offline spamnyams

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 03 December 2020, 10:02:04 »
Ooooooo  :thumb:

Offline Prestley

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 03 December 2020, 22:29:35 »
Really dig this set. Just ordered from kbdfans too so I could get a few dollars off when this goes up!

Offline Convergence

  • Posts: 42
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 04 December 2020, 20:06:40 »
Very clean, the only thing that would made this perfect for me is purple accents in the color dots kit and a 1.5u fn in the base kit.

I do share the sentiment that an EU vendor would be much appreciated, importing can be a nightmare.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 December 2020, 20:41:24 by Convergence »

Offline whirlwind

  • Posts: 213
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 04 December 2020, 23:47:08 »


No EU vendors? :(

Kbdfans could accept orders from EU I think.

What do you mean "you think"?

Did you not try to find any EU vendors for us and by assuming that we can order from KBDfans that will magically solve your problem? Are you aware we pay import tax from vendors such as KBDfans?

If that's the case, I'm voting with my wallet and I will not buy this set I think.

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Offline Ry0t@

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 06 December 2020, 08:09:53 »
That looks amazing! I'd be 100 percent in, if only it had a NorDe kit! No plans for that?

Offline clackeys

  • Posts: 48
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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #60 on: Sun, 06 December 2020, 17:32:41 »
Very excited for how clean this is looking, belongs on one of our white boards.

Offline dibkib

  • Posts: 56
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 10 December 2020, 02:37:26 »
I really like this, but as discussed by others, I'd really appreciate an EU vendor.

Offline PHYLO

  • Posts: 25
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 10:07:00 »
I genuinely wish more keycap sets tried out different typefaces/fonts for the legends. These are the best ones I've seen so far.

Offline Cubic // esc lab

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 12:28:54 »
I had some other thoughts last night. Very excited with the idea and a lot of good stuff here. But a few more ideas...Dieter rams was very against using anything that was not needed aka less is more. One of his ten design principles is that it uses as little design as possible. I understand the novelties and less kits are inspired by his other designs but are they betraying his design ethos? For example I don’t think putting a speaker design on a key would be something he would do because it does not involve the function. I also think it would be very unlikely that he would put a quote like “less is more on keys”. I think the idea of novelties in general to dieter would be frowned upon. So I think the less and novelties kits are not in line with his design philosophies if that is your aim. But I see what you were doing by taking his design ideas for things like speakers and putting them on keys. So it depends on what direction you want to go. Finally if you get rid of the novelties(less/novelties) then I think with the other kits capital alphas would seem quite strange as the mods are lower case and I love the the lower case look very cool. Just some more ideas... really excited for this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I love the intention of this set as a fellow Dieter fan, but I agree that this could use improvements in terms of aligning with his 10 principles.

I'll offer some thoughts once I grab some coffee..

Offline nettik

  • Posts: 44
  • Location: HI
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 13:59:09 »
I really like the theme behind this set, but a few things to think about:

Do you really need capitalized alphas if everything else is lowercase? I get some people might want all caps, but if literally all the mods are lowercase, the contrast is not going to look nice.

The novelty with six lines (I'm assuming that's a speaker grill or something?) is way too heavy in comparison to the rest of the set. Best example of what I mean is that first picture in your post - if you look at it from a glance, everything else looks the same uniform and pleasing weight except for those caps. It draws too much of your attention. Also the fact that I can't tell what it is tells you it's not a good idea for a novelty. I'm also not personally into the novelties (I keep misreading the 'but better' keycap as butter for some reason) but that might change with more renders.

Are you sure EPBT is the best choice for this set? EPBT caps can be blurry and I don't think it will work well for this font.

Offline Cubic // esc lab

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    • esc lab
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 20:32:36 »
First of all, kudos for all the effort you put into both the keycap set design + the IC. Lots of attention to detail and illustration efforts.

I do want to preface that I understand this is your interpretation of Dieter Ram's design principles -- it's your creative direction to do it however way you like. There's no right answer, so only take what I say as suggestions. His principles are guidelines, not rules. Great designers break them every day. Design would be boring as hell if there was only one way to do things.

But let's get get to the feedback.

1. Legibility

I think this is the biggest issue with your set right now. I understand the intent to use what I am guessing is Helvetica Neue Light (or even Ultralight) in your legends. But the legibility is incredibly low, even after I expand the image. I'm not a fan of lower case fonts for legends. If you look at the Magic Keyboard from Apple (which is heavily inspired by Rams' work, and also a keyboard I own), they use all-caps + centered legends for alphas. The font weight is also higher, although not as thick as default GMK fonts.

While Helvetica Neue Light/UL is a very aesthetically pleasing weight, it was never intended for great legibility. You'll rarely see it used in places where readability matters (and in legends, it matters). It's often used as an accent font, or in large illustrations.

Suggestion: Capitalize the legends (to increase consistency of legibility) + increase the font weight.

2. Attention to detail

From my cursory look into all your individual sets, I found a few instances where legends aren't properly horizontally and vertically centered. This is something you must fix. For a set inspired by Rams, you really shouldn't be violating "design is thorough down to the last detail".


3. Novelties

I can see you spent a lot of time on the novelties and they look beautiful.

However, I'm personally not a fan of novelties. One of Dieter's design principles (of the 10) is that "design makes a product useful", "design makes a product understandable", and "is unobtrusive". I see that you are borrowing details from some of his most popular products as an homage to his iconic designs, but in doing so, violates those principles because they don't add anything to the design other than as an aesthetic homage. Rams aims not to add design for just the sake of design (such as purely aesthetic choices). There's few reasons to have those design details in the novelties.

Suggestion: Dig deeper into the 10 design principles, and really explore what would make sense as novelties.

4. Color dots

As an opposite, I think the color dots makes sense - they are both aesthetically pleasing and useful. The dots will replace keys that have axillary uses that aren't labeled. They let the user define the utility. It's both aesthetically pleasing and serves as a function. I love them. Good work here.

5. less

This is the one group that I am really not a fan of. The text "less, but better" serves as a complete anti-thesis to what the text itself is trying to say. By adding that text, you aren't introducing less, nor are you adding anything better to the design. Dieter himself would never add text like this into his designs. Never.

Suggestion: Remove this.

6. Manufacturing

Let's say you do choose to go ahead with manufacturing (and it seems like you have, considering you've already chose ePBT), the legibility will be my biggest concern. ePBT is quite flexible when it comes to the type of designs + fonts, so it'll be better for you, but I would order samples of the Helvetica Neue Thin/Ultrathin to make sure the print does not bleed, and/or is legible.

Suggestion: Order samples and make sure readability is emphasized.

7. IC post suggestion

Due to the small font weight + lots of whitespace in your renders -- I found it quite hard to get a read of your keycap set in general. I would reduce the whitespace in your renders more, so people don't have to zoom into each picture as much.

Your hero shot (the first image with all the renders at once) is essentially unreadable even while the image is expanded.

I would personally also take out the "less, but better" in every render. I understand this is the name of your keycap set, but it's a little redundant and even stretches into corniness when overused.

I would also start both a Discord and Instagram account. The former helps you build your community and provide instant updates to your supporters. Instagram helps you build an audience for your set. A design language like this will get you quite a good number of followers if you keep your posts consistent.

Suggestions: Reduce the white space in your renders so us readers can quickly scan your IC post with minimal interaction. Start a community via Discord and IG.




All in all, I think your IC is very very polished. My feedback does not take away the effort + heart you put into this design.
I actually tend to write a lot when I see something that has a lot of potential but can use a bit of a push to become even better. I especially love the small Rams details you included in the IC such as the radio dial-type design details that is signature to his style.

Rams' design principles are like he says.. principles. They're not rules. Some of the best design in the world may not even follow close to Rams' work. It is up to you, the designer, to make these design choices. But since you said you are designing something inspired by Rams, I applied my feedback through the lens of his principles.

Really looking forward to what you do moving forward and any further updates.

GLWIC.

loop @ esc lab
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 December 2020, 21:08:00 by esclab »

Offline Jefff

  • Posts: 159
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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 21:06:26 »
First of all, kudos for all the effort you put into both the keycap set design + the IC. Lots of attention to detail and illustration efforts.

I do want to preface by me understanding this is your interpretation of Dieter Ram's design principles -- it's your creative direction to do it however way you like. There's no right answer, so only take what I say as suggestions.

1. Legibility

I think this is the biggest issue with your set right now. I understand the intent to use what I am guessing is Helvetica Neue Light (or even Ultralight) in your legends. But the legibility is incredibly low, even after I expand the image. I'm not a fan of lower case fonts for legends. If you look at the Magic Keyboard from Apple (which is heavily inspired by Rams' work, and also a keyboard I own), they use all-caps + centered legends for alphas. The font weight is also higher, although not as thick as default GMK fonts.

While Helvetica Neue Light/UL is a very aesthetically pleasing weight, it was never intended for great legibility. You'll rarely see it used in places where readability matters (and in legends, it matters). It's often used as an accent font, or in large illustrations.

Suggestion: Capitalize the legends (to increase consistency of legibility) + increase the font weight.

2. Attention to detail

From my cursory look into all your individual sets, I found a few instances where legends aren't properly horizontally and vertically centered. This is something you must fix. For a set inspired by Rams, you really shouldn't be violating "design is thorough down to the last detail".


3. Novelties

I can see you spent a lot of time on the novelties and they look beautiful.

However, I'm personally not a fan of novelties. One of Dieter's design principles (of the 10) is that "design makes a product useful", "design makes a product understandable", and "is unobtrusive". I see that you are borrowing details from some of his most popular products as an homage to his iconic designs, but in doing so, violates those principles because they don't add anything to the design other than as an aesthetic homage. Rams aims not to add design for just the sake of design (such as purely aesthetic choices). There's few reasons to have those design details in the novelties.

Suggestion: Dig deeper into the 10 design principles, and really explore what would make sense as novelties.

4. Color dots

As an opposite, I think the color dots makes sense - they are both aesthetically pleasing and useful. The dots will replace keys that have axillary uses that aren't labeled. They let the user define the utility. It's both aesthetically pleasing and serves as a function. I love them. Good work here.

5. less

This is the one group that I am really not a fan of. The text "less, but better" serves as a complete anti-thesis to what the text itself is trying to say. By adding that text, you aren't introducing less, nor are you adding anything better to the design. Dieter himself would never add text like this into his designs. Never.

Suggestion: Remove this.

6. Manufacturing

Let's say you do choose to go ahead with manufacturing (and it seems like you have, considering you've already chose ePBT), the legibility will be my biggest concern. ePBT is quite flexible when it comes to the type of designs + fonts, so it'll be better for you, but I would order samples of the Helvetica Neue Thin/Ultrathin to make sure the print does not bleed, and/or is legible.

Suggestion: Order samples and make sure readability is emphasized.

7. IC post suggestion

Due to the small font weight + lots of whitespace in your renders -- I found it quite hard to get a read of your keycap set in general. I would reduce the whitespace in your renders more, so people don't have to zoom into each picture as much.

Your hero shot (the first image with all the renders at once) is essentially unreadable even while the image is expanded.

I would personally also take out the "less, but better" in every render. I understand this is the name of your keycap set, but it's a little redundant and even stretches into corniness when overused.

I would also start both a Discord and Instagram account. The former helps you build your community and provide instant updates to your supporters. Instagram helps you build an audience for your set. A design language like this will get you quite a good number of followers if you keep your posts consistent.

Suggestions: Reduce the white space in your renders so us readers can quickly scan your IC post with minimal interaction. Start a community via Discord and IG.




All in all, I think your IC is very very polished. My feedback does not take away the effort + heart you put into this design.
I actually tend to write a lot when I see something that has a lot of potential but can use a bit of a push to become even better. I especially love the small Rams details you included in the IC such as the radio dial-type design details that is signature to his style.

Rams' design principles are like he says.. principles. They're not rules. Some of the best design in the world may not even follow close to Rams' work. It is up to you, the designer, to make these design choices. But since you said you are designing something inspired by Rams, I applied my feedback through the lens of his principles.

Really looking forward to what you do moving forward and any further updates.

GLWIC.

loop @ esc lab

Great feedback!

Offline _rubik

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 22:25:37 »
The type isn't quite to my taste, but I _love_ those novelties. Super cool  :thumb:
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Offline ryukomatoi

  • Posts: 39
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 21 December 2020, 15:08:19 »
I see a potentially great product and the community has some pretty good feedbacks.

I will agree that it may not be easy for ePBT to implement the thin fonts. If it can be executed, then great. If not, I honestly wouldn't mind the legends to be bolder.

I do appreciate the "less but better" concept, however I feel that the design aesthetic doesn't completely follow. My only gripe is the modifiers. When modifiers have both symbols and legends, it just looks too busy in my opinion. To respect the less-but-better concept, I feel that it should only have one or the other, not both. A nice example would be to take a look at ePBT's GoK x BoW keycap set.

Regardless, I look forward to see new renders and sample keycaps. Having mentioned the GoK x BoW set, you can already tell that I'm a sucker for a WS2 white keycaps with CR legends, especially made by ePBT.

Offline Jacki

  • Posts: 80
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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 21 December 2020, 15:12:19 »
I wish the Font was bigger and darker so it's more visible

[img width=267 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/in3VqH2.jpg[/img

Offline mrvco

  • Posts: 106
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 27 December 2020, 14:57:18 »
Text + Icons on the mods is a bit much, one or the other would be my preference.  I'm not a fan of the 'Less' kit (way too busy) and some of the 'Novelties' are ok (the horizontal line keys are a bit overwrought for my tastes), but I do like the 'Dots' kit.  All that being said, it would be good to hear some feedback on your confidence that ePBT can pull off these legends as PBT dyesub.

Offline geveent

  • Posts: 4
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 27 December 2020, 19:19:01 »
I want it now. Please start selling the keycaps. The keycaps are perfect. You don't have to change anything.

Offline Casserole

  • Posts: 25
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 27 December 2020, 21:13:09 »
really digging this set. Love the novelties! Share the concern with others about how thin characters are on the set. Hope to see it soon!

Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 27 December 2020, 22:10:00 »
I have to say, I am still concerned by the thin legends. I am not sure if ePBT will be able to do this level of detail considering their previous issues with regular thickness legends. Regardless, I will be pleasantly surprised if it does actually come out properly. good luck!

Offline Sandy

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 30 December 2020, 22:00:33 »
This is really well executed!
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Offline santela

  • Posts: 227
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 31 December 2020, 00:59:22 »
I have to say, I am still concerned by the thin legends. I am not sure if ePBT will be able to do this level of detail considering their previous issues with regular thickness legends. Regardless, I will be pleasantly surprised if it does actually come out properly. good luck!

Same. Given how thin these lines are, I am pretty doubtful.

Offline Corruto

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 14 January 2021, 04:36:57 »
I would love an International Kit. Really want this!

Offline apophene

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 08:59:33 »
Love, love, love this. Can't wait to give you my money. Am building a Sinc right now with an acrylic/plywood case...this will be perfect.

Offline Capone1423

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #78 on: Sun, 28 February 2021, 12:52:34 »
is there any chance for an international kit?

Offline Extra Fox

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 28 February 2021, 16:14:13 »
I really enjoy Dieter Rams' aesthetic and this set is really fantastic.

I think Loop did a great job with his suggestions. So the only suggestion I have would be to echo others and say I'd like the letters to be center-center on the keys.
Personally, while I fully appreciate Dieter Rams principles, I do like the novelties.
A-a-ron

Offline kchlam

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #80 on: Sun, 28 February 2021, 19:16:18 »
Hmm interesting, very neat to see lowercase on the alphas

Offline apophene

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 05 March 2021, 13:28:03 »
Am seeing [Coming Soon] instead of [IC] now on KBD Fans... and a date of 15 March. Hype!   :cool:

Offline Cubic // esc lab

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 05 March 2021, 20:12:07 »
Looks like there will be no changes made from the feedback that folks have given?

Offline yotasan

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 05 March 2021, 20:49:53 »
i love how simplistic these keycaps are, i love the novelties too.

Offline -Jerry-

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 07 March 2021, 16:14:38 »
These are so clean and beautiful - so tempting!
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Offline elmo

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.2]
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 08 March 2021, 07:32:29 »
Will continue to update renderings

can you perhaps use a decent image hoster?

this right here is a bit weird...

Offline Cubic // esc lab

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #86 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 03:26:36 »
Seems like this set is going into GB with vendors with no changes/response from OP on the feedback

Offline hottrout

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 15:46:11 »
My thoughts as well. If you don't want your customers opinions, don't bother to ask.
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Offline LordHaveMercy

  • Posts: 57
  • Location: Texas
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #88 on: Wed, 10 March 2021, 19:22:49 »
My thoughts as well. If you don't want your customers opinions, don't bother to ask.

I got a feeling that Killer is not exactly the one in charge of this layout. That might be why they're not too responsive at this point. Also, I have this general 'feeling' that there might be a slight language barrier with OP, too.

Offline lewisflude

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #89 on: Thu, 11 March 2021, 06:59:37 »
clean

Offline Cubic // esc lab

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[IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 15 March 2021, 15:36:47 »
Looks like this went into GB officially today. Granted I still think it's a good looking set, but OP just drive-by ICing (which makes it look like an ad) and not responding/listening to all the constructive and good feedback people provided is fairly disappointing.

I was originally quite intrigued by the set but I'll be voting with my wallet that this isn't good behavior.

Good luck with GB nonetheless.

EDIT:

I'm confused. Looking at the non-render layout photos in the GB pages, the legends look like they're not using the Helvetica Light Neue weight, while the renders look like they are.

So which one is it?

Additionally, have you checked if you're allowed to use the "Less, but better" quote without needing to consult Dieter Rams? Not sure if this is trademarked or not.
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 March 2021, 15:41:35 by loop | esc lab »

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #91 on: Wed, 17 March 2021, 00:52:13 »
In addition to the distasteful "drive-by IC" and lack of response to constructive criticism, I'm specifically concerned about the very thin text in some of the legends.

This one is all but guaranteed to run way behind schedule and/or deliver a sub-par product in the end.

Great idea, but unfortunately I am not willing to tie up anhy more money in risky GBs. Good luck to anyone who wants to join.
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Offline RickHoen

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #92 on: Wed, 17 March 2021, 07:44:07 »
I see people asking about an EU vendor, but there is one right?

Not sure why this is not mentioned anywhere: https://candykeys.com/group-buys/epbt-lessbutbetter

Offline DwieDave

  • Posts: 10
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 19 March 2021, 11:47:38 »
Greetings, Humans!
Now that the Group buy has started:
Is there an official [GB] Thread?

Offline glibber

  • Posts: 33
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #94 on: Wed, 31 March 2021, 04:30:36 »
Since this is in GB now, just a heads up for anyone looking to build a DE layout (or possibly other international layouts too):

The labelling on the international kit isn't entirely correct in the renders, not sure if it's going into production like that. See my original post here.

I have tried to contact the OP about this, but haven't received an answer yet (and don't think I will).

Really sad to see how this thread went in general, I think it's a great looking set.

Offline gh_pp

  • Posts: 199
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 23:56:41 »
Quote
5. less

This is the one group that I am really not a fan of. The text "less, but better" serves as a complete anti-thesis to what the text itself is trying to say. By adding that text, you aren't introducing less, nor are you adding anything better to the design. Dieter himself would never add text like this into his designs. Never.

I agreed with this 100%.

I think the "less" set with the color accent is essential to make a unique and stand out look to any board, but the "less, but better" text is just completely anti "less, but better". I do like the black novelty included in the "less" set, it is a great addition to complement any design.

Initially I have base + extra + novelty + dots + space bar in my cart.

But I already have a lot of black on white pbt sets, so in the end I just pre-ordered the novelty + dots. (would love the black novelty but can't justify having all the colored keys with text that I won't be using)

I think these two sets are super flexible and can complement any BoW set, I especially like the 2.75 + 2.25 novelty, super useful for split spacebar user !

Looking forward to production and hopefully epbt can overcome the thin font concerns mentioned by others.
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Offline ClerklyTexas

  • Posts: 10
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #96 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 09:34:28 »
Now that the group buy is over, where can we look for updates on production?

Offline Extra Fox

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #97 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 10:54:03 »
The starter of this IC/GB 'openkeydesign' last visited 2021-02-04.
I can't be certain, but I'm not hopeful there will be updates.
A-a-ron

Offline Cubic // esc lab

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #98 on: Thu, 22 April 2021, 11:51:07 »
Your best bet is probably look for vendor updates instead of designer updates

Offline LordLootus

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 12:19:49 »
Anyone seen any updates on this? I haven't seen any vendor updates at all on what is happening.

Offline phxrbn

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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #100 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 12:38:10 »
Per Kono's update page.

EPBT Less But Better
These are in production and should be finishing in the next month or so, then will take about a month and a half of transit.

Estimated shipping date is Q4 2021.

Offline LordLootus

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #101 on: Fri, 03 September 2021, 14:11:46 »
Per Kono's update page.

EPBT Less But Better
These are in production and should be finishing in the next month or so, then will take about a month and a half of transit.

Estimated shipping date is Q4 2021.

Ah nice, thanks for sharing that with me buddy.

Offline CrlaoSvloadr

  • Posts: 50
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Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #102 on: Wed, 15 December 2021, 20:05:02 »
Has there been any word on updates and estimated completion dates?


Offline linneverstops

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #103 on: Wed, 15 December 2021, 23:53:35 »
Has there been any word on updates and estimated completion dates?

According to updates on Kono Store, it was Q4 2021 delivered. They changed it to Mid Q1 2022 delivered.
Full text:
"Estimated production completion is early January, with about a month and a half of transit. Mid Q1 2022 arrival and shipping to customers."

Offline CrlaoSvloadr

  • Posts: 50
  • Location: Canada
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #104 on: Thu, 20 January 2022, 16:50:15 »
The set looks fantastic! Any doubts I had about the thin legends/designs paired with dye-sublimation is no more. Super satisfied with the end product and the novelties are very versatile!


Offline whee74

  • Posts: 52
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #105 on: Fri, 21 January 2022, 14:09:30 »
the simplicity of the set is quite nice. the simple novelties speak to me

Offline bosmuis

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #106 on: Fri, 21 January 2022, 16:52:48 »
The set looks fantastic! Any doubts I had about the thin legends/designs paired with dye-sublimation is no more. Super satisfied with the end product and the novelties are very versatile!
Show Image
Show Image


Could you provide a picture in a brighter light? I am thinking of preordering a Mammoth75 from Wuque Studio. I want to use it with the Less But Better set (I already purchased) but I can't choose between the black and e-white variant of the board. I'm worried that if I choose e-white, the color of white of the keycaps is too much off in comparison with the board. Do you possibly have any reference material between e-white and the GMK L9 color of the caps? Thank you in advance!

Offline nickthaskater

  • Posts: 60
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #107 on: Fri, 21 January 2022, 19:50:34 »
Praying for pre-orders or extras through Desk Hero. I see Kono has pre-orders open for the base kit and cap alphas, but nothing else, and Desk Hero has nothing as yet... Totally missed this set

Offline DaaDaa

  • Posts: 292
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #108 on: Fri, 21 January 2022, 21:16:16 »
holy crap they look great. my best decision in 2021 was getting these. i got two base sets and one of every other kit.

unfortunately now the shipping has been revised to early Q2. ePBT is really committed to absolutely topping GMK when it comes to covering their customers with feces :D
« Last Edit: Sun, 23 January 2022, 09:46:41 by DaaDaa »
piggy60 red upgraded PVD w/ GMK umka zaku | tiramisuit w/ GMK noire JWK silk emerald | mr.suit black/chrome glossy chamfers w/ GMK minimal cow POM stem | jelly epoch w/ SA oblivion zaku | mode80 deco w/ gmk boneyard alpaca | mode 80 imperial with ePBT origami alpaca| MODE80 viridian /w CRP boba LT | RAMA thermal kuro w/ GMK muted 2 pewter | BBox60 C64 wih marshmellows and c64 keycaps | MODE Sonnet green /w MW voynich gateron ink box pink

Offline dtywill

  • Posts: 38
  • Location: Durham
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #109 on: Fri, 21 January 2022, 22:00:31 »
The set looks fantastic! Any doubts I had about the thin legends/designs paired with dye-sublimation is no more. Super satisfied with the end product and the novelties are very versatile!
Show Image
Show Image


Could you provide a picture in a brighter light? I am thinking of preordering a Mammoth75 from Wuque Studio. I want to use it with the Less But Better set (I already purchased) but I can't choose between the black and e-white variant of the board. I'm worried that if I choose e-white, the color of white of the keycaps is too much off in comparison with the board. Do you possibly have any reference material between e-white and the GMK L9 color of the caps? Thank you in advance!
I have a mammoth and I put KAT Alpha on it and the whites are indeed a bit different so def worth seeing if this will match. It’s not bad but def different


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline CrlaoSvloadr

  • Posts: 50
  • Location: Canada
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #110 on: Sat, 22 January 2022, 09:04:10 »
The set looks fantastic! Any doubts I had about the thin legends/designs paired with dye-sublimation is no more. Super satisfied with the end product and the novelties are very versatile!
Show Image
Show Image


Could you provide a picture in a brighter light? I am thinking of preordering a Mammoth75 from Wuque Studio. I want to use it with the Less But Better set (I already purchased) but I can't choose between the black and e-white variant of the board. I'm worried that if I choose e-white, the color of white of the keycaps is too much off in comparison with the board. Do you possibly have any reference material between e-white and the GMK L9 color of the caps? Thank you in advance!

Unfortunately i’ve got no sets with stock GMK whites nor a board that has an e-white finish. I’ve taken a photo of the Escape keycap from LBB (right) side by side with what I had such as GMK Apollo (left), some apple products, and various switches with white/opaque/cream housings (cream, mauve, HP, U4T).

Hope it’s of some use!


I’ve thrown the set on a matte black board from SwitchCouture temporarily, and intend to pair it with a white/cream board as well or possibly navy!
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 January 2022, 09:08:02 by CrlaoSvloadr »


Offline bosmuis

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #111 on: Sat, 22 January 2022, 10:44:30 »
The set looks fantastic! Any doubts I had about the thin legends/designs paired with dye-sublimation is no more. Super satisfied with the end product and the novelties are very versatile!
Show Image
Show Image


Could you provide a picture in a brighter light? I am thinking of preordering a Mammoth75 from Wuque Studio. I want to use it with the Less But Better set (I already purchased) but I can't choose between the black and e-white variant of the board. I'm worried that if I choose e-white, the color of white of the keycaps is too much off in comparison with the board. Do you possibly have any reference material between e-white and the GMK L9 color of the caps? Thank you in advance!
I have a mammoth and I put KAT Alpha on it and the whites are indeed a bit different so def worth seeing if this will match. It’s not bad but def different


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for your answer. This is what I initially thought. I am a bit of a perfectionist, so I made up my mind and bought the black version of the Mammoth75.

Offline bosmuis

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #112 on: Sat, 22 January 2022, 11:00:03 »
The set looks fantastic! Any doubts I had about the thin legends/designs paired with dye-sublimation is no more. Super satisfied with the end product and the novelties are very versatile!
Show Image
Show Image


Could you provide a picture in a brighter light? I am thinking of preordering a Mammoth75 from Wuque Studio. I want to use it with the Less But Better set (I already purchased) but I can't choose between the black and e-white variant of the board. I'm worried that if I choose e-white, the color of white of the keycaps is too much off in comparison with the board. Do you possibly have any reference material between e-white and the GMK L9 color of the caps? Thank you in advance!

Unfortunately i’ve got no sets with stock GMK whites nor a board that has an e-white finish. I’ve taken a photo of the Escape keycap from LBB (right) side by side with what I had such as GMK Apollo (left), some apple products, and various switches with white/opaque/cream housings (cream, mauve, HP, U4T).

Hope it’s of some use!
Show Image


I’ve thrown the set on a matte black board from SwitchCouture temporarily, and intend to pair it with a white/cream board as well or possibly navy!
Show Image


Thank you so much! This is perfect. The comparison with the Airpods case made my day. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I don't think I would like the 'brighter' or 'cooler' white of the e-white board with the warmer tone of the caps. I ordered the black one. But, the thought of using such a keycap set/color with a navy board isn't a bad one! I will search for the combination for my next board for sure.

Again, thank you for the detailed photo's!

Offline DaaDaa

  • Posts: 292
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #113 on: Sun, 27 February 2022, 01:27:20 »
I am very curious to know the number of units sold in total across all vendors.
piggy60 red upgraded PVD w/ GMK umka zaku | tiramisuit w/ GMK noire JWK silk emerald | mr.suit black/chrome glossy chamfers w/ GMK minimal cow POM stem | jelly epoch w/ SA oblivion zaku | mode80 deco w/ gmk boneyard alpaca | mode 80 imperial with ePBT origami alpaca| MODE80 viridian /w CRP boba LT | RAMA thermal kuro w/ GMK muted 2 pewter | BBox60 C64 wih marshmellows and c64 keycaps | MODE Sonnet green /w MW voynich gateron ink box pink

Offline Caspid

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #114 on: Mon, 28 February 2022, 18:05:09 »
I like the base set.

Not sure how I feel about backspace, tab, and enter not ending in arrows. I think they could still have arrows and maintain the aesthetic.

Icon-only mods would complement the minimalist style very well.

Will this be ABS or PBT?
I'd love a dark version in PBT.


The whole "07. less" novelty section could be done without. It's the opposite of minimal, and much too loud. Same with the color dots; perhaps just a black dot, black square, black diamond, and outline versions.
The novelties are way too busy for me ; disrupts the minimalism.


I guess this was already made and shipped. Oops.

Offline DaaDaa

  • Posts: 292
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #115 on: Mon, 28 February 2022, 20:07:56 »
I like the base set.

Not sure how I feel about backspace, tab, and enter not ending in arrows. I think they could still have arrows and maintain the aesthetic.

Icon-only mods would complement the minimalist style very well.

Will this be ABS or PBT?
I'd love a dark version in PBT.


The whole "07. less" novelty section could be done without. It's the opposite of minimal, and much too loud. Same with the color dots; perhaps just a black dot, black square, black diamond, and outline versions.
The novelties are way too busy for me ; disrupts the minimalism.


I guess this was already made and shipped. Oops.

lol it is indeed a little too late to feedback on the design but you can still buy the base kit on kono, they have a few left.

I am very curious to see how many base kits was produced.
piggy60 red upgraded PVD w/ GMK umka zaku | tiramisuit w/ GMK noire JWK silk emerald | mr.suit black/chrome glossy chamfers w/ GMK minimal cow POM stem | jelly epoch w/ SA oblivion zaku | mode80 deco w/ gmk boneyard alpaca | mode 80 imperial with ePBT origami alpaca| MODE80 viridian /w CRP boba LT | RAMA thermal kuro w/ GMK muted 2 pewter | BBox60 C64 wih marshmellows and c64 keycaps | MODE Sonnet green /w MW voynich gateron ink box pink

Offline ShaunnyBoy

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #116 on: Wed, 02 March 2022, 14:02:08 »
Any update on delivery?

Offline stomaha

  • Posts: 98
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #117 on: Sat, 05 March 2022, 08:52:20 »
I’m confused as to the shipping status of this. It looks like some people received kits in Feb, but there sales on Deskhero/Kono still show as pre-orders?

Offline modeseven

  • Posts: 67
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #118 on: Sun, 06 March 2022, 00:14:13 »
Here is the reply I received from KBDFans:

Quote
Some kits of these keycaps set have not arrived at our warehouse, so we have not shipped the GB orders. Please be patient, it will not take long. We will email you after shipped your order.

Offline DaaDaa

  • Posts: 292
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #119 on: Mon, 06 June 2022, 17:19:12 »
any news on when kono buyers can expect the sets?
piggy60 red upgraded PVD w/ GMK umka zaku | tiramisuit w/ GMK noire JWK silk emerald | mr.suit black/chrome glossy chamfers w/ GMK minimal cow POM stem | jelly epoch w/ SA oblivion zaku | mode80 deco w/ gmk boneyard alpaca | mode 80 imperial with ePBT origami alpaca| MODE80 viridian /w CRP boba LT | RAMA thermal kuro w/ GMK muted 2 pewter | BBox60 C64 wih marshmellows and c64 keycaps | MODE Sonnet green /w MW voynich gateron ink box pink

Offline Jung

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #120 on: Thu, 21 July 2022, 20:58:59 »
Emailed my vendor (Daily Clack) last night and received this swift response

Quote
These keycaps had production issues and while it was produced earlier in the year, there were issues with keycaps and specific kits that needed to be replaced and remade.
This extended the delivery time for a few vendors, including Daily Clack, by many months.

From what I understand, the fix kits are finished and are being sent to us with the main kits in the coming months.

Looks like it'll be a while, folks.

Offline TekNiq

  • Posts: 13
  • Location: California
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #121 on: Fri, 22 July 2022, 00:00:36 »
Loving the design language, but then again, how can you not love anything so heavily influenced by Dieter Rams?

Offline Yung Thelonious

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #122 on: Fri, 22 July 2022, 00:49:05 »
This set is money, nicely done.
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 July 2022, 01:10:20 by Yung Thelonious »

Offline Jung

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] EPBT Less But Better [UPDATED DEC.3]
« Reply #123 on: Wed, 28 September 2022, 23:42:00 »
Just got shipping notification from Daily Clack. If anyone wants to see QC just ping here.