U|<ra1ne 2o22

[chyros]

This is taking too damn long..  if this keeps up, the economic friction for eu will run in the 10s of years.

I think Europe is going to work towards not needing Russia for imports/exports regardless of how quickly this war is going to end tbh.

[tp4tissue]

Germany was on course,  pretty much no one else, because they didn't have the money for it, or in the case of uk, the fossil lobby is too strong.

the concept of pulling the plug on R fossil is happening, but this is a really slow process, and it's made slower by NOT getting the fuel to transition.

[fohat.digs]

how quickly this war is going to end

Putin made a mistake by starting this in late-winter rather than mid-autumn.

He did have the advantage (?) of frozen ground for the first few weeks but that soon turned against him.

By the time it gets cold again the people will have had considerable time to get ready for it.
 

[iri]

Obviously he is, and yet he's still in power

/r/agedlikemilk

[tp4tissue]

Zapor12hzh1a  again !!  if one of those pop,  it's roughly a 2 Trillion dollar cleanup, with e(onomic friction, possibly 4-5 trillion

sigh............... Fffffffffff.... we have to do this quickly either win the damn thing or get out, if this keeps going, na7o will collapse under the e(onomic pre55ure. 

It's quite clear from the beginning, that the nv(lear noose around the necks of EVERY COUNTRY, made general warfare unwinnable,  yet these asshats at the top, ON BOTH SIDES of this,  want to try.


Ridi(ulous..  As civilians, we're royally screwed.   and this mi(r05oft guy wants to put little modular poison pills all over the Vn1ted states, in people's back yards, freakn' fffffff

[chyros]

Zapor12hzh1a  again !!  if one of those pop,  it's roughly a 2 Trillion dollar cleanup, with e(onomic friction, possibly 4-5 trillion

Honestly the economic damage isn't the thing I'm worried about most. But yeah, just leave the ****ing nuclear power plants alone ffs!

[tp4tissue]

Zapor12hzh1a  again !!  if one of those pop,  it's roughly a 2 Trillion dollar cleanup, with e(onomic friction, possibly 4-5 trillion

Honestly the economic damage isn't the thing I'm worried about most. But yeah, just leave the ****ing nuclear power plants alone ffs!

We quantify using $ amount in communicating between humans.

That 2 Trillion ultimately represents LABOR, an expense of human lives.  and this is just to fix a DAMN HOLE IN THE GROUND.  which we could avoid in the first place by turning the damn things off.

Nv(lear is neither an offensive nor a defensive weapon, it is a suicide pill.  WE HAVE enough of those.

[tp4tissue]

This is gettin' really bad, the longer they hold a place like that hostage, the risk for industrial accident increases exponentially.

Zapor12hzh1a, is way way way worse than (hern0byl / Fvkv5hima..

If this goes full on, the Evr0peen e(onomy will regress for 10-20yrs.



Imagine 20 yrs of every European person, poured into a hole in the ground, and out comes NOTHING. (although realistically, sky rocketing (an(er rates, + rare rad1olgi(al diseases + depression + immuno_compromise).

[fohat.digs]

It seems exactly like the right-wing terrorism in this country - mindless random destruction of ordinary people.

What are they hoping to accomplish ?
How does this advance their cause - whatever that is ? How can we even know ?

[tp4tissue]

It seems exactly like the right-wing terrorism in this country - mindless random destruction of ordinary people.

What are they hoping to accomplish ?
How does this advance their cause - whatever that is ? How can we even know ?

??

They want to stop na7o expansion. Putting mi551les in Vkra1ne is the same as Rv5sia putting mi551les in Mexico.

The act of holding the "West" nu(lear hostage PROVES that modern warfare is unwinnable, with NEVER ENDING COST.

THIS IS EFFECTIVE (for them),  because now we're stuck. We've invested our _Prestige_ to dominate Rv551a,    HOWEVER,  with every passing day it's becoming increasingly clear that we don't actually have that ability.  Again, Infinite money sinkhole.   How long before EU says, Enuff, we don't want ne more rocket launchers, and just cut a deal with Rv55ia.

Rv5 invaded Vkra1ne, but it's our own Muri(a Imperialism that pushed them into it.


Fffffff.. we need some sort of miracle c00p now.  pudz has a heart atta(k,  and everyone just shake hands.

This is afghn15tan all over again, only it costs ~50x more money, annnnnd Climate collapse incoming.



This is the problem with Oligar(hies, which ALL GOVERNMENTS are.     The rich assh0les have a tiff, and when it comes time to actually do the fighting,  they'd be like, Hai p00r people, go die for this.

[fohat.digs]

This could almost pass for a comedy routine if it wasn't probably quite real :

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-state-media-airs-insane-offer-to-help-america-and-save-donald-trump

[tp4tissue]

sigh....  at the grocery store today,  stared longingly @ THE GARLIC which Tp4 can no longer afford to eat.  Only haz'nuff minerals for the bulk bag of onions.

[chyros]

This could almost pass for a comedy routine if it wasn't probably quite real :

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-state-media-airs-insane-offer-to-help-america-and-save-donald-trump

That article gave me a good chuckle in several places xD .

Maybe they would've been able to convince a few people before 2022, but I think by now surely they must've lost what little credibility they had left. It's an amusing attempt - and hopefully a good moment of reflection for everyone on our side.

[tp4tissue]

Je5us (hr1st, 

we are sooooo ffffffffff...d

https://www-bbc-com.translate.goog/ukrainian/features-62532425?xtor=AL-73-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bukr%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bukrainian%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&fbclid=IwAR30fOZboHz7I_Y3GBGGf2aeyVTsVKCOmWTsoGDssW_HoXKZzS4UGqe9z8w&_x_tr_sl=uk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=uk&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[fohat.digs]

For quite a while I have been reading these things like this:
"then either Russia can switch the ZNPP to its own power system"

and it sounds like "switching" utilities like electricity, phones, internet, etc, to Russia's own system is a simple process. Wireless maybe - gain control of towers and start sending out you own signal - but there is a lot (A LOT) of hard infrastructure involved in carrying large amounts of electricity over large distances.

Clearly, this is a top Russian priority, but physically building major infrastructure in a war zone is hardly trivial. Yet it is said as if it is a minor process.

[tp4tissue]

This is a straight forward hostage situation.

Stations need power, even if it is turned off. It needs power for its fue1 pool, and to c00l the core. without power, even turned off, it could still explode/ melt down.

So by slaving the Zap station to "Rv55ian" electrical grid,  they both guarantee a forward base at the site itself, AND deter any further attacks on their Infrastructure which now has to support the Site in the event of failure,  WHICH now has EXTREMELY high probability.


Nv(lear power is inherently a dead end te(h, it was designed to be neither economical nor sustainable.

The only reason for its existence is to justify the weapons industry, and to camouflage an infinite Tax influx for those corporations.


Nv(lear power generates NET NEGATIVE amount of energy, ontop of being a NET LOSS economically and perpetuating dangerous waste which represent an existential treat to humanity..



You can see why Rv55ia is super into it.  This suicide pill essentially holds THE WORLD hostage.

Let's say, 'Murica Str0ng, na7o goes all out on Rvs,  OK, so we blow all their rails and their infrastructure,

BUHHHhhh oh wait,,   they have giant stockpiles of Nv(lear waste too,   Who's gonna take care of it ?


So, we blow up all their infrastructure,  and now they're supr p00r, great,  Now WE have to go in and rebuild the Infrastructure we JUST BLEW UP..   and fix their p0wr plants (assuming it didn't mel7down), and pay yet m0ar monies for the privilege of managing the1r nv(lear waste.   The reality is, if we did seriously atk,  then their stations would me1td0wn because stations only have ~1-2 weeks of diesel onsite.



This is the primary reason why EVERY country is in a Rush to enter Nv(lear,  because it's a SUICIDE DEVICE, that can POISON EVERYONE.    Each p0wr station in the event of failure will release 1000x-100000x the rad1a7ion into the atmosphere + surrounding,  compared to (hiro5h1ma/nagas4k1.)



The premise is Full_Retard,  because we all live on the SAME planet, as if collective suicide solves anything.   

MEANWHILE,  no one wants to tackle climate change... too busy doing Sui(ide tech.


The dvmbes7 **** is going down in France right now, climate change is making it TOO HOT to keep nv(lear stations turned on,  because the water is either GONE (draught), or TOO WARM to be used to cool the rea(tors.    There is absolutely NO resiliency in the Future for Nv(lear p0wr stations.  They already have too much down time TODAY as it is, fran(e's largest nv(lear provider Areva went bankrupt (years back), and was only saved by YET MORE PUBLIC FUNDING, transferring the entire operation to state owned.

[fohat.digs]

slaving the Zap station to "Rv55ian" electrical grid

As if this could be done overnight.

Realistically, what is the time frame for a solid hardware attachment to some (any) foreign source? Could it happen quickly enough, since the threat seems imminent?

Doesn't seem like it.

[tp4tissue]

slaving the Zap station to "Rv55ian" electrical grid

As if this could be done overnight.

Realistically, what is the time frame for a solid hardware attachment to some (any) foreign source? Could it happen quickly enough, since the threat seems imminent?

Doesn't seem like it.

The time frame doesn't matter,  this whole situation is stupid.   It could've been avoided if ameri(a simply accept the fact that we're NO LONGER the world poli(e,  with neither the capability nor the politi(al will,

but unfortunately,  we've got too much pride for that, so here we are.

Europe and Asia are and (some academics argue) Beyond the industrial capacity of America already. 

Amer1(an Military Superiority, what does that even mean ?  when ANY covntry with a nv(lear stockpile can sui(ide the WHOLE planet ON THEIR OWN.. with no influence from any other nation.

Look,  India,  they said they wanted Nv(lear energy, well they lied, they developed Nv(lear weapons in the basement with a box of scraps.  Huzzah...

INDIA , ALONE,  can detonate their sto(kpile, and we'd all die,   So, our collective Na7o military, super expensive carriers, etc, etc,   We can't even defeat India with all this hardware.  INDIA

In our foreign poli(y,  you'll find hit_lyrics suchs as, Contain (h1na, Repel Ru55ia, etc.   Please demonstrate, how we could even Bully India...

Right now we're trying our damned best, and I hope we succeed in Bullying Rv55ia into, Some (currently indeterminate) outcome. 

Thus far, it's essentially forcing them to exer(ise their industrial capacity,  so instead of just letting their oligar(hs  BE lazy, squander money, do cocaine, and send their kids to Harvard to be lazy and do cocaine,    NOW we're pushing them to increase production of ALL material.  Remember,  they have their own massive natural gas wells and OIL.    You let them do this for 20 years,  they'll be (hina 2.0, while (h1na is on (hina 5.0 , now even m0ar ja(ked because of (heap Rv551an Oil.

ALL THE WHILE, the world BURNS DOWN from climate change.


The media perpetuates the Rv551an paper military, mm.. yea, conventional militaries are ALL paper.  If the REAL Fighting happened,  it's all just a hole in the ground.


We've got to pray for the Pu7n' heart attack and /or c00p,  because infinite money sink hole is here.   I guess we're hoping they 'll want pizza hut and mcdonalds bad enuff to work this out eventually, or c00p, idk, /got prayers.

[fohat.digs]

We can't even defeat India

Thank you for answering my question.

And I understand that India will be surpassing China in population in the very near future.

[tp4tissue]

We can't even defeat India

Thank you for answering my question.

And I understand that India will be surpassing China in population in the very near future.

At the moment, it's like threatening to filibuster.   in MOST cases, this is enough, such that they don't even have to actually connect the Zap. 

In the long run, they might, but it depends.  A connection in terms of Supplies (diesel) and backup generation can be accomplished readily,    But in terms of cables,   This takes 6 month to a year if they're Actually doing it, if they're just Fake doing it, and "threatening filibuster"  it's anyone's guess.

Tp4 would guess, they're probably fake doing it. WHICH is more dangerous for EVERYONE.

In the event Zap goes into disaster, it will bankrupt Europe, they can still <pad the numbers> such that on paper everyone's solvent,  but IN REALITY,  it's most likely negative productivity for a decade.

[chyros]

I'm honestly not so sure that either China or India is going to be the biggest problem around. Guess Russia proved that it's not - quite effectively - as well.

I reckon we have a lot more to fear from religion than from any one country. Although I guess this has always been true throughout the entirety of human history.

[fohat.digs]

Growing up in the 1950s-1960s, even as a very religious little boy (due to the influence of my grandparents), I always had the distinct impression that traditional religion was fading in the rear-view mirror.

No one was more shocked than me when it started roaring back, with a vengeance, in the late 1970s.
 

[tp4tissue]

To uneducated people,  religion actually sounds ok,   

WITH education,  religion (conventional) is just stupid.

Now, Star Trek,  THIS is the kind of religion a modern person Could follow, and it'd be pretty benign.

[tp4tissue]

Vkra1n1an Grain.

The reality is 70-80% of ALL GRAIN produced world wide is used as animal feed in Animal Agriculture.

Converted, these livestock animals then represent ~15% of "total" calories eaten by Humanity.

Yes, there's a grain reduction, with the Vkra1n \/\/ar friction, but  The primary reason why ANYONE would starve as a result, is Animal_Agriculture.

[fohat.digs]

[tp4tissue]

There is a place for comedy,   but the premise must be examined in more detail.

They live in a sustainable environment where enough food can be grown.

The local powers (corrupted by western influence) are not growing food, instead they are growing feed "for cattle", they are growing coffee and chocolate for Export.

The vanity desires of wealthier nations both in terms of raw_product AND excess energy consumption driving climate change DIRECTLY impact the livelihoods of These impoverished nations.

OUR vanity, drives their hunger, AND expands the Desert (near) where they live.

Animal agriculture is again the key culprit

[tp4tissue]

Prolly false flag, or faked own death,   shipped to 'murica or newzealand or sumtin'   

Hopefully this means c00p is coming ?

[tp4tissue]

Tense situation in Zap, p0wr plant.

Worst case,  it pops,  normally someone has to come up with ~500 billion to 2 trillion $ for cleanup. 

Given the size of the site,  in a war torn nation,  with busted Infrastructure /manufacturing,  if we had to TRUCK IN supplies/ liquidator workforce..   10 Trillion $

This is very very bad,  because what do you get for all that money,   Still a hole in the ground, and skyrocketing CANCER rates throughout Europe w00t w00t.


The best option since the very beginning was for Vkra1ne to surrender.   

We're working on smoke and prayers now,  Again, America has invested too much of its PRESTIGE in this.  If we don't win , it's going to make us look foolish... < some argue it's already too late>

God I hope Pudd'in has a heart attack and dies....   drag this on, it's unwinnable.

[fohat.digs]

The best option since the very beginning was for Vkra1ne to surrender.   

I thought that the best option was for none of it to have ever happened.

Yes, Putin can bring down untold damage on the planet, but what is the upside? To go down in history as almost as famous as Hitler?

[Leslieann]

The best option since the very beginning was for Vkra1ne to surrender.   

Best option for who?

I suspect Ukraine would beg to differ and so would you if it was your country being invaded.

[tp4tissue]

The best option since the very beginning was for Vkra1ne to surrender.   

Best option for who?

I suspect Ukraine would beg to differ and so would you if it was your country being invaded.

US has been expanding nato, that really just means the cold war never stopped. 

The primary reason for this is we never dismantled our military industrial post ww2, it is still our largest core industry. This has the effect of making a military solution the PRIMARY solution to all foreign affairs.  HENCE our ENDLESS WARS.

The United States attempting to expand bases/missiles/alliances in Vkra1n is the same as if Rv55ia put bases in Mexico.  Regardless of culture,  regardless if Mexico AGREED to host the bases, that is an offensive move.  The act could NEVER go down peaceful,   Rv551a is making the ONLY logical response they could make to OUR continued meddling in Vkra1n.

Reverse the roles and look at that situation.  Would USA tolerate Rv55ia bases in Mexico, EVEN IF Mexico AGREED to host them... ??

If Vkra1ne remained NEUTRAL, none of this would've happened.

The concept of Nationhood excludes the welfare of its people.  Nationhood only respects the welfare of the Oligarchs.


From the perspective of the Farmers/ Proletariat class of Vkra1ne,  what difference would it have made if they were annexed by Rv551a.  nothing's changed, they're still farmers.

But, the world isn't decided on by farmers, it's decided on by local Oligarchs. TO WHOM does the Capitalist Funnel Go Up To ?      This is why wars are fought.

Farmers are no more or less free regardless of who rules,  But NOW, in this very specific case,  Many Many farmers are DEAD.

United States did no one any favors.  Our broken foreign policy is what created this mess.   Vkra1n's population is now paying that price for OUR lack of diplomacy.



PART 2 for us is extremely dangerous.   Now we're on the spot,  IF WE FAIL to save Vkra1ne.  we're screwed.   Na7o   proven worthless,  who's gonna buy our weapons after this.   

This is very very hard to win,  because of the Nv(lear sites laden all over Vkra1ne ,  Pop 1, and it's scorched,   $10 Trillion please, thanks Money printer,  oh what, you want education, no no , we're putting all our money in this rad1oa(tive hole.   it's a great hole.

By all means let's keep adding to the list of Wars we DIDN'T Win..   vietnam, iraq, afghanistan,  and these were against much weaker opponents who can barely shoot back.

I hope everyone is lighting those prayer candles for Puddin' heart attack + c00p, that's our only out in the long term.


DYING for SOVEREIGNTY is DYING FOR THE KING.    It's not stupid for the KING, he tells everyone to die for him,  to him it's completely logical. 


PEOPLE, are easily brainwashed to commit to something against their interests.  The Rv55ian PEOPLE are as brainwashed as the 'Murican PEOPLE are as brainwashed as the Vkra1n1an PEOPLE.

[Leslieann]

TP turning into a Russian bot.

[tp4tissue]

TP turning into a Russian bot.

Tp4 is team America 1000%..   

But these are facts,  we're NOT the good guys here.  Neither is the Rv551an regime..

It's 2 bad guys (Oligarchs) fighting each other, getting Civilians Killed.

[fohat.digs]

But these are facts,

The whole Earth is a mess, nothing and nobody is perfect, but it is imperative to always support the lesser of 2 evils, or the greater of the 2 is likely to prevail.

[tp4tissue]

But these are facts,

The whole Earth is a mess, nothing and nobody is perfect, but it is imperative to always support the lesser of 2 evils, or the greater of the 2 is likely to prevail.

Exactly,  Tp4 fully supports Team America to win this.

HOWEVER,  Tp4 is not deluded by MSM,  Our government's actions in Vkra1ne clearly provoked this war.

Vkra1nians are dying for our mistake. (and/or) our Oligarchy's concept of American Hegemony,     Regardless from whose perspective you look at it,  those dead Vkra1nians would all be alive if Vkra1ne stayed Neutral. (this WAS an option) , option 2, let Pudd'n have Vkra1ne, again alive.

Pudd'in's a bad guy, their Gov is as corrupt and broken as our own..  but their response is clearly logical, and as a direct result of our meddling. 


It's at this point difficult and morally dubious to continue to let more Vkra1nes die,  Because there is no clear military victory possible. Modern wars are unwinnable.

We've spun up the same mechanism how many times now and failed every single time.


Here's our strat,  Escalation,  Full mobilization,  Our weapons/soldiers outclass the Rv551ans,  OK COOL,    He goes Nvks,    What do we do ?   Do we Respond with our own Nvks ?    Rv5 nvks Los Angeles,    We nvk Mos(0w, 50-80% chance of nv(lear winter ?    How's that going to work,

10-30 million people now has to die, just so we realize that we should be talking this out in the first place ?

HOW do we WIN ??     If we can't win,  what was the point of the escalation. 

Rv55 is essentially calling our Bluff.   Ever since Nv(lear 1(BMs  the whole concept of a ground battle between 2 nv(lear nations is pointless.   


So, now, we're fighting with prayer, Miracle 1, Pudd'in has a heart attack,  Miracle 2, Rv5 Co0p,  Miracle 3,  Resultant Gov isn't Pudd'n like, and is friendlier.

[Leslieann]

HOWEVER,  Tp4 is not deluded by MSM,  Our government's actions in Vkra1ne clearly provoked this war.

It's not like Ukraine woke up one morning and decided NATO and E.U. membership was a good idea, this was a long time coming and it never would have happened had Russia not been playing around in their back yard at least as much as we were. Our actions may have poked the bear but the bear was already in the camp rummaging through the tents.

It's not like this is the first time this has happened with them or anyone else, threat of nukes included, proxy wars have been going on since the dawn of time. No one has to win, everyone just needs a "win". Read up on the Cuban Missile Crisis and how it was solved. We aren't even remotely close to that level of risk.

[fohat.digs]

You just can't make this **** up.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/01/lukoil-chairman-ravil-maganov-is-the-8th-russian-energy-executive-to-die-suddenly-this-year.html

[tp4tissue]

That's pretty normal for this type of thing.

[chyros]

You just can't make this **** up.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/01/lukoil-chairman-ravil-maganov-is-the-8th-russian-energy-executive-to-die-suddenly-this-year.html

Yeah, quite a few of these people who have been putting bounties on Putin's head have died suddenly. Thankfully this isn't at all suspicious.

[fohat.digs]

Thankfully this isn't at all suspicious.

Yes, people fall out the windows of hospitals all the time.

[tp4tissue]

Thankfully this isn't at all suspicious.

Yes, people fall out the windows of hospitals all the time.

well, it's not suspicious, because the message is clear

[iri]

Don’t even know what is more ridiculous, geekhackers mourning deaths of Putin linked oligarchs or geekhackers thinking that Putin linked oligarchs put bounty on Putin’s head.

[suicidal_orange]

Don’t even know what is more ridiculous, geekhackers mourning deaths of Putin linked oligarchs or geekhackers thinking that Putin linked oligarchs put bounty on Putin’s head.

So these deaths are actually the people revolting against Putin by killing his friends?  I'd not rule it out within the country but sounds unlikely you'd find someone willing to take that risk when they're abroad.

[fohat.digs]

geekhackers mourning deaths of Putin linked oligarchs or geekhackers thinking that Putin linked oligarchs put bounty on Putin’s head.

So these deaths are actually the people revolting against Putin by killing his friends?

Don't be confused by pretzel logic.

The simple fact is that Putin retaliates against his enemies, and that group includes his former "friends" ....

My opinion is that Putin, like Trump, has probably never had any actual friends, only people who rotate in and out of his orbit for convenience and profit.

[tp4tissue]

My opinion is that Pu7'n, like Drvmp, has probably never had any actual friends, only people who rotate in and out of his orbit for convenience and profit.

Friends is a word we made up.  the bar for "actual friends" swings arbitrarily in this context for you to frame someone as an outcast.

It is not an accurate barometer for foreign politics.

[fohat.digs]

Friends is a word we made up.  the bar for "actual friends" swings arbitrarily

In my world, friendship is a spectrum, true, but my closest friends are as close to me as my family and I treasure those relationships.

And while "layers" of friends and family expand outward with decreasing connectedness, still their relationships with me are emotional and intellectual, and irrespective of power or money.

[tp4tissue]

irrespective of power or money.

not true,   it always comes down to How Much,  There is a PRICE, it may not be in dollars or whatever arbitrary currency deemed "unworthy"

[fohat.digs]

I feel sorry for people who do not understand love.

[fohat.digs]

Z-nuke has lost its last connection to outside power.

Why is it that they don't have a direct primary tap for their own critical needs ?

[tp4tissue]

They're testing Europe's resolve to continue as vassal states to our American Hegemony.

These plants have 1-2 weeks of back up diesel on site.  After which, it melts.