Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 1246223 times)

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Offline Findecanor

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2300 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 07:24:44 »
I dremeled the holes with a conical grinding bit to remove metal from the edges, but that did of course expose metal in a ring around each hole.
Another idea I had was to solder wires to the switch pins and using something (shrink-tubing if possible, shrink-wrap or lacquer otherwise  :-\ ) to insulate the pins before mounting the switch.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 May 2013, 07:28:39 by Findecanor »

Offline listboss

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2301 on: Fri, 17 May 2013, 02:56:46 »
I dremeled the holes with a conical grinding bit to remove metal from the edges, but that did of course expose metal in a ring around each hole.
Another idea I had was to solder wires to the switch pins and using something (shrink-tubing if possible, shrink-wrap or lacquer otherwise  :-\ ) to insulate the pins before mounting the switch.

After I finished both sides with that white glue thingy Amazon decided it was time to send me a real lacquer  >:D
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008OA7AWE/
(I tested it and it works much better but it has so many health related warnings on it that I'm surprised they still sell it !!!)

I love the new thumb key, thanks for giving me some idea :)
I'm typing much more comfortably and faster.


Offline litster

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2302 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 00:11:06 »
My original ErgoDox is now complete, with DSA keycaps!


Offline WRXChris

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2303 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 00:15:36 »
My original ErgoDox is now complete, with DSA keycaps!

Show Image


Now I'm regretting not being able to afford that retro set even more!  Looks great lit! :eek:

Offline litster

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2304 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 00:44:10 »
yeah, I didn't do anything with my ergodox after I finished designing the acrylic cases.  Then I put it away for months, and just dug it back out just to install the new DSA caps on it.

Offline WRXChris

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2305 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 00:54:11 »
yeah, I didn't do anything with my ergodox after I finished designing the acrylic cases.  Then I put it away for months, and just dug it back out just to install the new DSA caps on it.

Excellent job on the case design, BTW.  It's very solid and looks awesome!!

I still don't use mine as my daily driver, but I use it for a bit every day and am quickly getting over my muscle memory related slowdown.  Space/Enter/BS/Del are slowing me down the most, my only other issue is 'B'.  I sometimes hit the key to the right of it when touch typing quickly since I'm used to it being shifted half-a-key to the right on a standard staggered layout.

Offline litster

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2306 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 01:24:52 »
Thanks Chris.  I really like this case design, especially with the wrist rest version.  It is very solid.  I like the cavity in the case where you can see the teensy and other components.

I have problem with V, C, and the arrow keys.  But the rest of the layout I think I can get used to, since I made it very close to the normal QWERTY layout.

Offline SubGothius

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2307 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 03:28:11 »
... I have problem with V, C, and the arrow keys.  But the rest of the layout I think I can get used to, since I made it very close to the normal QWERTY layout.

FWIW, I devised an adapted-QWERTY layout with a typical inverted-T arrow cluster:
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=S49G3K&hash=ffa81da9d8223848b98b5e2cd1f4dea5

This involved moving /? to the bottom row along with ' ", but I think I'll like those placements (once I get used to them) for reducing pinky strain and improving accuracy (I'm always fat-fingering those keys in standard layouts anyway), and really the /? position right below ,< is perfect for HTML coding at my day job.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline WRXChris

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2308 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 03:57:19 »
On the arrow key topic, my favorite setup is using WASD as the arrow cluster on Layer 1, and I have a 'Layer 1 toggle' button as the bottom left button of the right thumb cluster on Layer 0.  Similarly,  I use a 'Layer 2 toggle' button as the bottom right button of my left thumb cluster, giving me quick access to my number pad on the right bank! 

Good luck deciphering everything I just said, lol, not sure of a better way to explain it in words.  Here's a picture of my L0 and L1:



As you can see I have Kinesis-style arrow keys on L0, and I've tried to use them but they just confuse me and trip me up.  I'll figure out a better purpose for these keys at some point because I'm all about my layered WASD arrow keys!
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 May 2013, 04:01:30 by WRXChris »

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 624
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2309 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 04:36:49 »
@wrxchris - try up, left, down, right for that arrow row on L0. Having the bottom arrow keys in the same sequence as normal arrow clusters would likely be easily to adapt to than the kinesis style row.

As for your layered WASD cluster idea, the ~L2 is just too far for easy use, unless you have huge hands. Shift your LALT to where your caplock is and shift the caplocks to another layer, since I imagine you wouldn't actually be toggling CAPS status very often. Having ~L2 where your LALT current is would be perfect for the the toggled WASD cluster.

Just some suggestions that may be helpful, cheers.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2310 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 10:20:51 »
Sorry for the last post on Kurplops wood Ergodox....almost need an Ergodox Gallery.
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 May 2013, 10:30:44 by Input Nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
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Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2311 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 10:27:15 »

WOW! Sordna linked me to this since I'm out of touch these days.

Outstanding work and I'm very impressed with your design. Very impressed.

Ok, here it goes, typical Input Nirvana questions:

Did you take any pics of the mouse work interior?
Is it possible to get a few pics with hand placement, one on keyboard another on the mousing?
Any close-up pics of the sides of the keyboard (front, side, back, under)?
How did you decide the placement of the Ergo-halves?
Any pics of the unit during construction?
How did you decide on the keyboard profiles/design? I like the detail.

Talk about WOW! To be noticed by the two Guru's of Kinesis modifications is quite an honor.

I hope to start a new thread on my project so as not to take up too much space on this one but a few quick responses here.

You realize of course that showing the unfinished underside of my keyboard is like showing up for an underwear modeling gig before I had time to shave my back, but here goes. :-[ 
(Attachment Link)

Sorry the pictures are so out of focus. The top button is set for click and the thumb falls naturally to it. The left button is set for right click and it's very easy to get to. The others are set for forward and back in OSX and middle click in Windows.  They are not as easy to reach while using the ball but that's the beauty of a center mount trackball where you can assist with the other hand.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

One final picture here of the mockup I made to help me determine the placement of things. I used hot glue to make a "hinge" and two wood scraps to find the best tenting angle for me. The amount of splaying and separation between units was predetermined by how my arms naturally lay.

(Attachment Link)

I have more pictures I will post soon in another thread.

2 items that capture my initial interest:

#1- The warmth of the wood and the design are very notable, far more than just a nice touch. I appreciate the use of natural materials. We are after all, natural beings. Paint, plastic, sheetrock get old very quickly.
#2- The physical placement of the halves relative to each other and the mousing.

Please make the separate thread/article, it's a huge benefit.

HILARIOUS SIDE NOTE: 99.999999% of all keyboards are a single keyboard. A couple have a separated hand design but are still a single keyboard (ex:Kinesis Advantage). The Ergodox was designed to be a true split 2 piece keyboard, and Kurplop made it into a single keyboard! LOL Ya gotta see the irony in that!
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 May 2013, 10:28:54 by Input Nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2312 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 11:26:09 »
As you can see I have Kinesis-style arrow keys on L0, and I've tried to use them but they just confuse me and trip me up.  I'll figure out a better purpose for these keys at some point because I'm all about my layered WASD arrow keys!

Hugh? What you have are *not* kinesis style arrows. Kinesis arrows have horizontal movement on the left side and vertical movement on the right. Check my layout which does have kinesis arrows (only change being I swapped up/down to better simulate vi)

Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2313 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 11:56:39 »
Listboss:

I like the key that can be hit with finger (or preferably) thumb...any work that can be moved to thumbs is a positive.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~

Offline kurplop

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2314 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 16:47:59 »
2 items that capture my initial interest:

#1- The warmth of the wood and the design are very notable, far more than just a nice touch. I appreciate the use of natural materials. We are after all, natural beings. Paint, plastic, sheetrock get old very quickly.
#2- The physical placement of the halves relative to each other and the mousing.

Please make the separate thread/article, it's a huge benefit.

HILARIOUS SIDE NOTE: 99.999999% of all keyboards are a single keyboard. A couple have a separated hand design but are still a single keyboard (ex:Kinesis Advantage). The Ergodox was designed to be a true split 2 piece keyboard, and Kurplop made it into a single keyboard! LOL Ya gotta see the irony in that!

Yeah, I agree. it's a lot like somebody remarrying their ex-wife isn't it?

Thanks for your interest IN, your comments are a welcome stroke to my fragile ego. You should know that I've tried about a dozen times to upload a full report on my Ergo/ball/tray only to have it stall during transmission  causing me to lose everything. I think it may  be the number of pictures but it just froze up again with only four. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I do want to share this with the gh community but need some assistance. Because of my advanced years I am afraid that my brain may be digitally under-clocked.

Offline SubGothius

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2315 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 16:27:15 »
Shift your LALT to where your caplock is and shift the caplocks to another layer, since I imagine you wouldn't actually be toggling CAPS status very often.
Also note that the firmware handles RShift+LShift as a CapsLock toggle, so there's no need for a dedicated CapsLock key. :)
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2316 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 20:10:09 »
Also note that the firmware handles RShift+LShift as a CapsLock toggle, so there's no need for a dedicated CapsLock key. :)

"Can handle" to be laboriously accurate about things :). Important because I'm not sure the massdrop generated layouts use the feature.


Offline eviltobz

  • Posts: 95
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2318 on: Mon, 20 May 2013, 03:25:02 »
Also note that the firmware handles RShift+LShift as a CapsLock toggle, so there's no need for a dedicated CapsLock key. :)

"Can handle" to be laboriously accurate about things :). Important because I'm not sure the massdrop generated layouts use the feature.
it's very very easy to implement when you download the source from the massdrop configurator. makes for a good introductory step into more serious firmware hacking. someone ought to thank the guy that did all the hard work on that firmware stuff.

Offline ic07

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2319 on: Mon, 20 May 2013, 14:59:26 »
Haha :). Not done yet! Seen rev-2 lately?

Offline eviltobz

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2320 on: Mon, 20 May 2013, 17:28:53 »
Not properly. I've seen that you've been active in the partial rewrite branch, but I've just been hacking around with the original source code for now. I've never done that much with C or C++, and most of my tiny amount of experience was around 15 years ago, so I've mostly been trying to get my head around how things work with a stable codebase to begin with. Nothing too adventurous, the teensy led is now my caps lock light, and the under-key leds are used for layers. One of them is used for my concept of a "base layer" and indicates whether I'm in Mac Colemak, Windows Colemak or Qwerty mode by being off, on, or flashing. I was rightly proud of that last state, but that's about as fancy as I've got so far :)

Is the new flavour getting to the sort of state where it's worth other people having a crack at it then?

Offline ic07

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2321 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 22:55:31 »
Sorry the late reply - just finished my last final today! (for the semester at least) :)

A flashing state for the LED is pretty good, lol - that timer and interrupt stuff isn't the most intuitive (at least, it wasn't for me).

The new branch is definitely usable :) - I'm running it on my board, and I think a few people have forked from it.  If you're trying to track the branch, you might want to wait a bit, since I will change things up without warning if I happen to think of a better way to do things - that's part of why I'm keeping it in a separate branch still.  The other major reason is that I haven't had time to write most of the user level documentation and examples (for things like how to implement sticky, chorded, or macro keys, or use the scheduling functions I recently got in there) -- and there are a few features I'd like to get in before moving it to master too i guess.  If you're just going to fork, make a few changes, and thinking about merging later though, I think the new branch is definitely better (a little more coherently organized, I hope, and layers are much easier to modify in source since there's only one matrix instead of three) - but whether it's worth your effort to switch (especially right now) is highly subjective.  Summer's starting, so I'll probably have quite a bit more time to work on it.  Hopefully I'll have it about as complete as it'll be before summer ends :D .

Offline eviltobz

  • Posts: 95
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2322 on: Thu, 23 May 2013, 03:00:47 »
Sorry the late reply - just finished my last final today! (for the semester at least) :)
congrats :)
Quote
A flashing state for the LED is pretty good, lol - that timer and interrupt stuff isn't the most intuitive (at least, it wasn't for me).
heh, you haven't seen how i did it ;)
Quote
The new branch ... layers are much easier to modify in source since there's only one matrix instead of three ...
w00t. that was one of the things i was wondering about hacking at :) i shall try to have a look through and see what I can do with it soon.

Offline bearcat

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2323 on: Thu, 23 May 2013, 16:42:30 »
i've been using the new brach, love it.  i haven't been tracking it too closely, though.  Definitely looking forward to seeing how you work out sticky keys & macros :)

Offline SubGothius

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2324 on: Thu, 23 May 2013, 16:58:55 »
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as they already have 1x Ctrl/Alt/Win keys, and their otherwise-terrible Cherry MY keyswitches happen to use MX-compatible keycaps, at least for all keys relevant to the ErgoDox. This guy has like 300 of them in stock; I made an offer of $5 (+S/H) and got a counteroffer of $7.50, which I accepted, so $21.50 shipped for a decent set of caps wasn't too shabby a deal.

These appear to be laser-etched (not engraved+infilled) POM keys, as the legends seem to be "blanched" into the dark plastic, leaving a perfectly uniform surface texture. POM is interesting, rigid yet not brittle seeming, with a slightly waxy surface feel; this makes sense, as I've seen Delrin (a brand of POM) sometimes described as being like a "self-lubricating Nylon". The F and J keys have Cherry's signature "deep scoop" homing profile, which I find quite nice, rather than the usual raised dot or line. They came off easily with a homebrew cap puller (paperclip formed into a U-shape, with the tips bent inward as hooks), but fit a bit more snugly on the MX clears that came with my ErgoDox kit (yet still not too difficult to pull off again).

Anyway, I haven't even got around to soldering my keyswitches in yet, but I just had to mount up the caps to see how they look and feel, and of course to show everyone here:

23055-0

Of note, I think using a row-profiled key on the right Space key (where you see the 1.25x Shift cap mounted), with its nearly vertical upper edge facing the main cluster, may mitigate the spacing/reach issue some have mentioned with that key's position. I was gonna use a top-row 2x cap (e.g. Backspace) with its more level face there, but now that I've tried the bottom-row Shift cap there, I think the way its face slopes down towards the main cluster may work even better to strike glancing blows with the side-tip of my thumb. The numpad Enter vertical cap, with its sloping face and vertical scoop, also seems to suit the angle of a thumb striking it better than a more level numpad "+" cap or 2x horizontal cap would, and it provides some terracing separation from the Ctrl key, so I think I'll keep that. I'm using the NumLock cap for a key to push/pop my numpad (Layer 2), rather than toggling the NumLock state itself per se. Now I just need to get my ( 8 ) 1.5x caps, a proper 2x cap for the Space key, and maybe a blank numpad Enter cap for the Delete positon (then again, I might just keep that as-is and accept the gaps).

Oh BTW, regarding swapping the positions of the LEDs and their resistors, it took some fiddling to get the LEDs' leads oriented correctly to allow clearance between each other and the case cutout, while also allowing room to insert the stripped USB mini plug into the Teensy jack. For LEDa and LEDb, The negative (shorter) lead needs to go straight down into the hole, with only the positive (longer) lead being bent to reach the other hole, but those positive leads need to be bent in different ways. The one for LEDa needs to be bent straight away from the (-) lead, whereas the one for LEDb needs to be bent 90 degrees from that orientation:

23057-1
« Last Edit: Thu, 23 May 2013, 18:40:04 by SubGothius »
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline Rolz73

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2325 on: Thu, 23 May 2013, 21:10:01 »
Firmware is very hackable, I now made the teensy LED light up whenever I am not in the main layer, it's super useful, and shows very nicely through the acrylic case! Code patch below, includes the buzzer stuff.

This is fantastic. 

I am still waiting on my parts to arrive from the 2nd GB, so I have had lots of time to research mods and such.  I had originally though that the ErgoDox would be already setup with 6 LEDs which I had planned on not using for the caps/num/scr,  but as a binary indicator as to which layer I am currently on (although I am going to have a tough time figuring out what I am even going to configure the many extra layers as).  Of course I will have to see if I can wire them so that I can place them in different positions, but then that will be part of the fun.

But this is just another step towards that mod, thanks!

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2326 on: Fri, 24 May 2013, 16:33:30 »
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as they already have 1x Ctrl/Alt/Win keys, and their otherwise-terrible Cherry MY keyswitches happen to use MX-compatible keycaps, at least for all keys relevant to the ErgoDox. This guy has like 300 of them in stock; I made an offer of $5 (+S/H) and got a counteroffer of $7.50, which I accepted, so $21.50 shipped for a decent set of caps wasn't too shabby a deal.


That's a great idea. I've never used a POM key set before, unless the old POS keyboards I used to use at retail jobs were POM keys when I had just assumed they were filthy and disgusting. Also, I happen to notice that these are used card-swipe keyboards, which means they might have that same feel and send me into ****ty-job PTSD. Heh. But hey, for $10 maybe I'll pick up a couple and see if they're not totally revolting; those 1x mod keys would be nice for the dox too.

Also I had no idea that MY switches could use MX caps...learn something new every day.

Offline SubGothius

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2327 on: Fri, 24 May 2013, 17:32:54 »
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as they already have 1x Ctrl/Alt/Win keys, and their otherwise-terrible Cherry MY keyswitches happen to use MX-compatible keycaps, at least for all keys relevant to the ErgoDox. This guy has like 300 of them in stock; I made an offer of $5 (+S/H) and got a counteroffer of $7.50, which I accepted, so $21.50 shipped for a decent set of caps wasn't too shabby a deal.


That's a great idea. I've never used a POM key set before, unless the old POS keyboards I used to use at retail jobs were POM keys when I had just assumed they were filthy and disgusting. Also, I happen to notice that these are used card-swipe keyboards, which means they might have that same feel and send me into ****ty-job PTSD. Heh. But hey, for $10 maybe I'll pick up a couple and see if they're not totally revolting; those 1x mod keys would be nice for the dox too.

Also I had no idea that MY switches could use MX caps...learn something new every day.

The cap interchange is covered on the Deskthority wiki on MY switches. While the caps they come with are quite nice, the actual MY switches have terrible keying action to actually type with; the force curve is just plain unpleasant. Seems they were designed to be a more rugged alternative to rubber domes while retaining the cheap, printed-circuit membrane-sandwich contacts normally used with a rubber dome setup. Suffice to say, I feel no remorse for junking the rest of the board after I scavenged the caps off it. The controller board might be useful to keep for a hand-wired board if you study the membrane circuit traces...

On the board I got, the keys were fairly clean and hardly looked used at all, maybe at most some slightly noticeable signs of use on the numpad caps (makes sense for a POS board), which won't even be used on an ErgoDox anyway. The only debris under the caps was a surprising buildup of fabric lint, leading me to guess the boards in this guy's lot were maybe used in clothing stores. After popping the caps I dropped them in an empty yogurt pail with some water and Pine-Sol and shook it up, let it soak a while, shook again and drained, followed by a couple more rinse-shake cycles with plain water, leaving the caps looking good as new.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline listboss

  • Posts: 22
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2328 on: Sun, 26 May 2013, 21:27:18 »
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as they
Can you please post a closeup of the Backspace key? Does it have a flat profile?

Offline SubGothius

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2329 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 03:25:51 »
I've discovered that the Cherry G81-1800/-7000 models are a great donor board for cheap, row-profiled, labeled keycaps for the ErgoDox, as they
Can you please post a closeup of the Backspace key? Does it have a flat profile?

Fairly flat faced, with a slight cylindrical scoop of course, similar to DCS Row 1, whereas the Shift cap has a more sloped face similar to DCS Row 3 or 4 (which is what I'll want to use for my Space cap, with the low end towards the main cluster). In the top pic here, the upper edges of both caps are facing towards the left:

23416-0
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 May 2013, 03:29:38 by SubGothius »
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline listboss

  • Posts: 22
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2330 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 13:06:51 »

Fairly flat faced, with a slight cylindrical scoop of course, similar to DCS Row 1, whereas the Shift
(Attachment Link)
Thanks for the detailed pictures. Is that SHIFT key a 1.5X ?

Offline SubGothius

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2331 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 16:19:01 »
Fairly flat faced, with a slight cylindrical scoop of course, similar to DCS Row 1, whereas the Shift
Thanks for the detailed pictures. Is that SHIFT key a 1.5X ?

Nope, it's a 1.75x; the only 1.5x caps in this set were the Tab and \| caps. I mounted that Shift cap to my right-thumb Space key on a lark, just to get a feel for the typing action with this board and cap set, and discovered I might like that sloped Row 3/4 profile for Space keying anyway, so I'll prolly order a proper 2x cap with that profile from Signature Plastics, along with ( 8 ) 1.5x Row 2 caps and maybe a 2x Row 4 Vertical cap (for the Delete key).
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2332 on: Thu, 30 May 2013, 03:12:44 »
edit: this has been resolved, just plugging the usb into the teensy will not do as the board needs some of the usb plug as well (ex VCC), fixed with some creative wiring.

Geekhack HEELLLPPPP!

so i built my second ErgoDox today, stayed up all night, and i've run into problems, the entire thing does not work, i am suspecting i may have damaged the teensy but i handled it with care and no visual evidence of damage

pictures below and here are the facts

- this is the metal case this time, i did use the mylor sheet and no contacts are touching metal i checked
- plugging the mini usb cable directly into teensy, i lost the usb thing to solder into board, i planned on skipping it and instead just having a cable direct into it if i cant find the part
- i did a visual inspection and everything appears to be soldered correctly, the diodes are the correct direction, quadruple checked, nothing is crossed
- the left hand works 100% fine, i tested by connecting to my first ergodox
- i followed the directions to program correctly, ive done this before with the first one
- blink_fast.hex and blink_slow.hex program into teensy just fine it blinks (duh)
- only thing that is obvious is that there is maybe too much solder on some switches and diodes and i didn't clean the melted rosin off so its obvious its a bit messy in the picture. this shouldnt be a problem because i made the same mistakes on the first one and other keyboards ive assembled.
- i desoldered and resoldered any solder joints that looked suspectious
- it isnt even registering as a keyboard in the device manager, i would expect that if it was something wrong with my soldering then it would at least register as a keyboard after being programed, right?
- i have tried programming with multiple computers, same results.

Is it possible the teensy is messed up even though blink_fast.hex and blink_slow.hex program fine?

i really want to use this ergodox assembly instead of the first one, i'm almost willing tomorrow to desolder the teensy off the first ergodox and soldering it onto this second one, that would answer if i messed up the second teensy and i would just get a new one. but im not sure how risky that is.


grr not working by almightyglod, on Flickr

grrrr not working by almightyglod, on Flickr

everything should work but it doesn't by almightyglod, on Flickr

blink works but not the keyboard by almightyglod, on Flickr


edit: this has been resolved, just plugging the usb into the teensy will not do as the board needs some of the usb plug as well (ex VCC), fixed with some creative wiring
-
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 May 2013, 07:34:21 by Glod »

Offline bpiphany

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2333 on: Thu, 30 May 2013, 03:32:36 »
Someone (me) forgot to connect VCC from the Teensy to the 3.5 mm connector/USB connector. This may be your only problem. Use a wire or jumper lead to connect the VCC pin on the Teensy with the VCC pad on the USB connector.

Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2334 on: Thu, 30 May 2013, 03:56:32 »
DOH!, thats why i cant have the usb connector directly plugged into the teensy, damn it was obvious, im going to have to figure out some sort of work around given i dont have the mini-usb connector, i lost the part, either i solder my way around this problem or order and wait for the part :(

Offline vvp

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2335 on: Thu, 30 May 2013, 05:09:46 »
EDIT: Oops, ignore this. I misread last two posts and just repeat what is there.

You skipped the USB connector on PCB. Did you check that the PCB is designed in such a way that +5V on the USB PCB connector is connected with +5V on the teensy board? Because if it is not you may miss power delivery to some components on the PCB. I do not know whether this can be your problem. I do not have ErgoDox nor the ErgoDox PCB scheme to check it out.
Too much flux does not matter (don't bother with it if you do not mind the ugliness). Too much solder does not matter either if it does not create a short.
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 May 2013, 05:59:04 by vvp »

Offline bpiphany

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2336 on: Thu, 30 May 2013, 05:58:42 »
As vvp says, you simply need to connect +5V (VCC) from the Teensy to the USB connector. That way the 3.5mm plug will get +5V as well. They are connected. The reason the keyboard doesn't work is that the Teensy doesn't find the IO-expander (since it isn't powered. A short wire will fix this, you don't need to use the USB connector.

Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2337 on: Thu, 30 May 2013, 06:56:03 »
thanks guys

Well in my manic whirlwind of wanting to get this to work I did some odd wiring to accomplish just that and it paid off. I'll order the part of do something cleaner later but this works and yay I just tested and my keyboard works, I just had to fix the soldering of a diode but it all works now.

Now I can sleep peacefully knowing ergodox #2 with stickerd ergo white switches and aluminium body is complete with only cosmetic fixes left to do

Zzzzzzzzzz 7 am est up 24 hours

Offline bpiphany

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2338 on: Thu, 30 May 2013, 17:50:33 »
That is a true frankenmod  =D

The long story is that I did half-right.. The original idea was to not have anything connected to the USB connector on the PCB. That way the connector could have been put on either side. GND happened to end up connected by mistake, making it a bit difficult to separate it again if you'd like to mount the connector on the flip side (doing a left-hand only keyboard for example). So VCC could just as well have been connected as also =P

Offline bisl

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2339 on: Fri, 31 May 2013, 15:34:10 »
I went ahead and picked up a couple of said cherry donor boards--it's actually pretty nice! POM keys are a little waxy-feeling, as described, but I don't mind it; as well, the keying action of MY switches are just the same as every ****ty POS keyboard I've ever used. Junked immediately with extreme prejudice.

I did get a bit of a surprise though--I got two sets of them, and they came with two different windows keys.

http://imgur.com/a/qIs7E

The keys in general on both boards are the thicker stock as seen on the left, but one board had these ugly/thin caps for the windows keys as seen on the right. Buyer beware!
« Last Edit: Fri, 31 May 2013, 16:08:22 by bisl »

Offline Glod

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2340 on: Fri, 31 May 2013, 15:49:55 »
? :confused:

Offline Squeaky Wheel

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2341 on: Sun, 02 June 2013, 15:11:07 »
A few questions about the Ergodox. Bear in mind that I'm new to this:

1. Can somebody make me one?
2. Does it have full NKRO over USB?
3. Could it work with Plover?

Offline bisl

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2342 on: Sun, 02 June 2013, 22:06:38 »
1) There are people who have been performing assembly services, yeah. Once you're at 60 posts you can post in the classifieds about a fully-assembled keyboard, or hopefully someone will volunteer in this thread before then.
2) Nope, 6KRO for teensies. Do you actually need more than that?
3) What?

Offline gnubag

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2343 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 01:19:21 »
NKRO is possible over the teensy.
It works with the phantom, but I don't know the ergodox is supporting it.

Offline vvp

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« Last Edit: Mon, 03 June 2013, 13:09:36 by vvp »

Offline Jagriff

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2345 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 08:01:11 »
Yay! Round 2 on Massdrop has shipped!

3) What?
I was curious as well and this is what I found:
Plover is an open-source stenography program. Essentially, it's a way for people to type really fast (well over 150 WPM). It requires NKRO as far as I know.

Offline NthTier

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2346 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 08:06:30 »
Just got my notice that my order from the 2nd Ergodox massdrop shipped!!!   :cool:

Offline ic07

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2347 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:32:46 »
NKRO (and other USB level features) are on my list of things to work on, and it shouldn't be waaaay too long before I have time to look at them.  Last time I messed with USB stuff I didn't get extremely far though, so we'll see if I've learned enough in the interim to be successful this time :) lol.

Looking into it a little further, it seems that Plover can work without NKRO, provided one is willing to "arpeggiate" the keys.  Not sure how much of a pain that might be...

EDIT:
Congratulations to all the round 2-ers!

Offline thadood

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2348 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 16:52:46 »
And now I just got to wait for a round 3 .. hopefully there will be one!

Offline SubGothius

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Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2349 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 21:11:17 »
And now I just got to wait for a round 3 .. hopefully there will be one!
I think they ran Round 2 once the post-Round 1 Requesters count got up near 300, and post-Round 2 Requesters are now at 131, so we may be getting there...

Anyone who wants another round, be sure to click the Request button on the ErgoDox Round 2 page!
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut