Truly Ergonomic + Windows 8

[Tracer]

I've been happy with my 109 and 209 TEKs.
However, I've recently upgraded to Windows 8 at home and the 209 has turned into a bit of an annoyance.
Two main issues arose since upgrading:

1. When starting from cold boot, the computer sometimes does not recognize the TEK. I have to unplug and re-plug the keyboard. Note that no hardware changes occurred for this upgrade. Using the same USB port and everything. This happens about 50% of the time. Wonder if this is related to the OSX coming out of sleep issue.

2. The Windows Key is far more important in Windows 8 than any previous version of Windows. The location of the Windows key on the 209 is better than the 109, but still not ideal for Windows Key + letter combos like Win+C which you have to hit to get the charms bar.

Of course, emailing TE about any of this is useless as they never respond to any emails that are not transaction related.

As an aside, I'm loving Windows 8 otherwise. If for no other reason that it's wicked fast.

(edited for typos)

[kurplop]

1. When starting from cold boot, the computer sometimes does not recognize the TEK. I have to unplug and re-plug the keyboard. Note that no hardware changes occurred for this upgrade. Using the same USB port and everything. This happens about 50% of the time. Wonder if this is related to the OSX coming out of sleep issue.

Of course, emailing TE about any of this is useless as they never respond to any emails that are not transaction related.

(edited for typos)

Welcome to the club.  I found that installing a cheap usb switch saves me the trouble of constantly having to re-plug in the keyboard. I got mine from Monoprice. It looks like something from Grandpa's old hi-fi set but it does the job.

[Tracer]

Welcome to the club.  I found that installing a cheap usb switch saves me the trouble of constantly having to re-plug in the keyboard. I got mine from Monoprice. It looks like something from Grandpa's old hi-fi set but it does the job.

By switch do you mean Hub? If so I have one built into each of my monitors. I will try plugging the keyboard into one of them to see if the problem goes away.

[Gerk]

Welcome to the level of support that OSX gets with the TE boards where we have to plug and unplug the board constantly to get things to work properly Tracer.  Wouldn't it be great if we could remap those keys to more appropriate locations with the software they promised?

And I don't think he means a USB hub, he means a KVM switch -- which has it's own built-in keyboard emulation of sorts and takes matters away from the flaky TE controller.

[kurplop]

Monoprice has several USB data switches. I found their product #1341 works well and is $8.34. It can be used as an on/off switch to interrupt your USB line instead of unplugging the cable. Because it's actually is an AB switch I use it to switch my keyboard from my Mac to my PC. I bought 2 so I could also move my trackball from one computer to the other.

Right now that switch is out of stock.  Monoprice has other USB switches. They look nicer but I had trouble with the one I tried (product ID 2995)

Give it a try. It makes the TE recognition issue much more tolerable.

[Tracer]

I plugged the keyboard into my Dell monitor and this seems to have made the problem happen much less frequently. It's only happened once since my last email.

Still weird how it's OS dependant, even between versions of Windows.

[Tracer]

Welcome to the level of support that OSX gets with the TE boards where we have to plug and unplug the board constantly to get things to work properly Tracer.  Wouldn't it be great if we could remap those keys to more appropriate locations with the software they promised?

I've started emailing them once a week asking for the status of the remapping software. It's actually kind of fun coming up with a new way to ask the same question every week. I'm on my 9th email this week.
Last week was easy because I also had to add the Windows 8 issue.

This weekend I will open up the 109 and see what I can see. I can't imagine that they are using some overly obscure controller.

[Tracer]

WOW. Something amazing just happened. TE responded!

The email was long and full of re-hashed stuff from their website. Here is the only relevant bits:
"... we have to mention that we have concentrated our efforts in manufacturing the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard according to our design specifications. This hasn't allowed us to finalize the application that will allow you to reprogram it or customize it. We are still working on this application and we trust will be available very soon."
"We will send you another email when this application is ready for download, or if more information becomes available."

As for the keyboard detection issue, TE is blaming OSX and Windows 8 for this problem. The only viable workaround that they emailed me, and one that I feel is working for me at the moment, is plugging the keyboard into a hub. I've not had to replug my keyboard for a few days now since plugging it into my monitors hub instead of directly into the computer. Note that this is a Windows 8 solution. Don't know about OSX.

[Gerk]

That's pretty much the exact wording of what they have sent me multiple times now.  Plugging the keyboard into a hub doesn't help with OSX, you have to actually unplug/re-plug the keyboard to get it to register (or as another user suggested hook it up to a KVM).

I have a pretty hard time believing that OSX and Windows 8 are to blame ... funny that I don't have problems with any of my other keyboards, just the TE, and I've plugged a LOT of keyboards into my OSX machines over the last few years.

[Burz]

I have a pretty hard time believing that OSX and Windows 8 are to blame ... funny that I don't have problems with any of my other keyboards, just the TE...

That is called treating your customers like they're idiots.

It sucks that you guys are getting this treatment. I wonder how many other people out there are also at the end of their rope with TEs.

[Tracer]

That is called treating your customers like they're idiots.

In the email they stated this is a known issue with OSX and that they are not the only manf. who is suffering with this "bug". I asked them to give me an example of another piece of hardware that is suffering from OSXs non-standard implementation.

It sucks that you guys are getting this treatment. I wonder how many other people out there are also at the end of their rope with TEs.

I wouldn't say I'm at the end of my rope by a long stretch. It sucks that I have to use 3rd party remapping software, but fundamentally the keyboards themselves are great and I enjoy using them every day.

I just hate the fact that the company who managed to bring to market my ideal keyboard is also run by people who do not believe in honest communication.

[Gerk]

I'd like to hear what they have to say about the other keyboards that have that issue, if they answer you that is.

I agree that their hardware is well done, even if it's not exactly what I would have done.  Surprisingly so in fact, the build quality is much better than I was expecting to be honest.  Now if they could just shift their concentration from "manufacturing to their design specs" and fix up the issues in the firmware it would be a good step forward.  Luckily if this is happening with windows 8 now too it's likely to get more notice so maybe they'll make it a priority.

[Tracer]

I'd like to hear what they have to say about the other keyboards that have that issue, if they answer you that is.

Considering how many emails it took for them to answer the original question, I'm not going to hold my breath.
I'm going to write up a detailed review for my blog with photos etc. It will be balanced, but will include all the negative aspects of this board as well as the positives. Hopefully, if my SEO-Fu is strong, this will force the company to address some of the issues publicly if not privately.

I agree that their hardware is well done, even if it's not exactly what I would have done.  Surprisingly so in fact, the build quality is much better than I was expecting to be honest.  Now if they could just shift their concentration from "manufacturing to their design specs" and fix up the issues in the firmware it would be a good step forward.  Luckily if this is happening with windows 8 now too it's likely to get more notice so maybe they'll make it a priority.

It is surprisngly well put together and sturdy. I guess the > 1 year long delay was for something after all.
I have no dought that this product was born out of one man's desire for his perfect keyboard, so this is not a surprise in hindsight.

Windows 8 has sold some 40 million licences so far, hopefully some of those are TE users and not just me.

(Edited for typos)

[djcybermyth]

Of course, emailing TE about any of this is useless as they never respond to any emails that are not transaction related.

I used to think this way too, but recently got a very detailed email from them regarding trying to lube up one of the shift stabilizer bars.  I was honestly really impressed with the level of detail that it had, including multiple links to the correct grease for keyboards and several pictures explaining what to do.

So, I have to say that I've changed my opinion of their communication lately.  Now, it did take awhile for them to get back with me, but overall, good on them.

Regarding Windows not recognizing the keyboard until you replug it, my friend had the same problem here at the house, but only with one of his boards.  The other one seemed not to have that issue.

I had my own strange issue where my keyboard suddenly became super-slow to be recognized on boot but would eventually come up after 3-5 minutes.  This happened through multiple reboots and with several boards, TE and Leopold.  It turned out that shutting down and pulling the power cord out of the tower cleared the problem.  I didn't know that a mother-board could get into that kind of stale state which would affect the USB hub, but apparently it can.  Obviously, the symptoms of my issue and yours are totally different, but have you tried a total power down like this on your desktop or laptop?  On a laptop, you could get the same thing by removing the battery.

[Tracer]

Wow. Wonders never cease. TE has released new firmwear. My 109 will now become a 209 and hopefully this disappearing keyboard issue will go away.

[ Edit: removed link to firmware as it's buggy all around ]

No reprogramability yet.

Important Update: Do not upgrade your old gen 100 series keyboards. I updated the 109 with the 209 firmwear, and though it does function, several keys are now sending the completly incorrect keycode. (special character keys only)

[Gerk]

And so it begins ...

It's also a windows only updater by the looks of things, which leaves the linux and OSX users high and dry.

[Tracer]

It's also a windows only updater by the looks of things, which leaves the linux and OSX users high and dry.

I don't think that will ever change. This will most likely be a Windows only affair.

I will report back if the boot/wake issue has been resolved.

[Burz]

How do you make the TE accept new firmware?  Is there a hardware switch you have to enable... or is it all done in software?

[Gerk]

I don't think that will ever change. This will most likely be a Windows only affair.

I will report back if the boot/wake issue has been resolved.

Did they send you the link directly or did they post on their site somewhere about it?

[Tracer]

How do you make the TE accept new firmware?  Is there a hardware switch you have to enable... or is it all done in software?

Switch 5 must be on off.

[Tracer]

I don't think that will ever change. This will most likely be a Windows only affair.

I will report back if the boot/wake issue has been resolved.

Did they send you the link directly or did they post on their site somewhere about it?

Direct email with link.

... and the firmware does nothing for my Windows 8 issue on the 209, and has rendered my 109 almost unusable.

[Tracer]

One of the features of this firmware does work and is a welcome change. The numlock state is no longer synchronised. This means that you can have two keyboards hooked up to the computer, one with numlock on and the TE with it off. This also means that the BIOS numlock state is ignored by the keyboard.

[Burz]

How do you make the TE accept new firmware?  Is there a hardware switch you have to enable... or is it all done in software?

Switch 5 must be on off.

Thank you.

[Gerk]

One of the features of this firmware does work and is a welcome change. The numlock state is no longer synchronised. This means that you can have two keyboards hooked up to the computer, one with numlock on and the TE with it off. This also means that the BIOS numlock state is ignored by the keyboard.

Sounds like a bad hack to me on all fronts then.  I don't think I'll try and use this for anything.  Hopefully they release another firmware that will fix up your 109 back to working status.

[Tracer]

Wow. I didn't actually have time to fully test the 209 either. The firmware screwed up some keys I never used, but it did screw up. (Top left international key and centre row delete key). I've removed the link to the firmware in my original post as I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to download that.

[Gerk]

Ya sounds like it's good that you took it down.

[Tracer]

Well.. apparently "it's just me" as they released the firmware out http://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=79_90

[SilverRubicon]

Wow. I didn't actually have time to fully test the 209 either. The firmware screwed up some keys I never used, but it did screw up. (Top left international key and centre row delete key). I've removed the link to the firmware in my original post as I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to download that.

Mine works as expected if dip switch 1 is set to 207.

[Tracer]

New update on the Windows 8 issue. Looks like it has very little to do with Windows 8.

I noticed, that the BIOS fails to detect the USB keyboard occasionally on boot. The BIOS throws the "No Keyboard Detected" error. In those cases Windows 8 doesn't pick up the keyboard either. Windows before 8 I guess did a better job of detecting them.

So regardless of what TE says on their support page, the issue is all them.

[Gerk]

Of course it's not .. it's a windows 8 problem!  LOL

Actually if your BIOS is failing to detect then it's an even deeper issue .. it sounds like they have actually made things worse instead of better .. now the hardware is even having a hard time picking it up.

[Tracer]

Actually if your BIOS is failing to detect then it's an even deeper issue .. it sounds like they have actually made things worse instead of better .. now the hardware is even having a hard time picking it up.

The symptoms were the same before the firmware update. I just never noticed that it was the BIOS not picking up the keyboard. They simply did not fix the issue.

[pyro]

Just installed Windows 8 x64 yesterday using the Truly Ergonomic 207, no problems at all. I didn't flash new firmware or anything. It all works fine, as does Autohotkey, if you launch it with admin privileges.

I had USB Legacy Support (or USB Keyboard Support) set to enabled in BIOS, so that might have something to do with it.

[Tracer]

Just installed Windows 8 x64 yesterday using the Truly Ergonomic 207, no problems at all. I didn't flash new firmware or anything. It all works fine, as does Autohotkey, if you launch it with admin privileges.

I had USB Legacy Support (or USB Keyboard Support) set to enabled in BIOS, so that might have something to do with it.

Sadly that has no bearing on it. With it on or off, every so often I have no keyboard on boot. Both soft and hard boots.