GMK white/dark grey US/GB full set + 'Gamer' add-on {Closed}

[jonathanyu]

I think it will be really hard to reach the MOQ since the order is only up for 1 month

[r3dx]

Thanks again Ivan for another GMK group buy! Their stuff is top notch! The purple mod set I got last time around has been the longest running key set to stay on a board for me and I love them.

I'll try to get some money together to participate in this one again but I don't think I'll be able to purchase extras to help bump up the counts like I did in the purple mod set.

Anyways keep up the great work! It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to increase the group buy period because a month does seem pretty short.

[sprit]

풍성해서 좋지만, 조합이 구려요~ 그냥 다 사란 말인갑네요 ㅎ  그러지 마시고 구성을 좀 수정해보셔요  이바노비치님 !

Amazing, but muzzy Combianation  )

[gojira54]

I'm in for alpha, UK set & nav pack.
Hope it can meet the MOQ...

[Broadmonkey]

[bueller]

(Attachment Link)

To be fair most stuff was discussed but I don't think anyone was expecting the entire set to come in at over $200 USD.

[Moosecraft]

(Attachment Link)

We have a 50 page IC thread, I think  the price just throw people off.

[___q]

I thought it was said that it would probably be $50ish per kit in the IC thread?

This is an expensive GB for sure, but the prices ended up being only slightly more than I was expecting.

[pix3l_fodder]

To be fair to Ivan, this IS the fairest way to set the prices and get the MOQ. I'm assuming those that are complaining are the ANSI english users?

[gojira54]

I think the set looks great - legends are spot on & even though there's a lot of keys I personally won't be using I appreciate this GB is aimed at ALL so I'm not complaining as I am in the minority ISO group
Even though it's pricey I don't see myself buying further sets as this will be 'it'...

[bueller]

To be fair to Ivan, this IS the fairest way to set the prices and get the MOQ. I'm assuming those that are complaining are the ANSI english users?

Only problem is when the price climbs so high it starts to hurt your chances of reaching MOQ. Cheaper sets = more orders.

[nntnam]

Nice set anyway .

[longweight]

Can anyone put some Dolch mods next to some WoB caps? Would be good to see the contrast.

[bueller]

Can anyone put some Dolch mods next to some WoB caps? Would be good to see the contrast.

This is what the final set will look like.

[GeorgeK]

That looks so good - I'm going to have to find the money for them from somewhere...

[rindorbrot]

Fingers crossed for the moq on all sets!

[YongJK]

I guess I will be in for Mod.
That is more practical and usable than the alphas which some of it are blank.

[kekstee]

The reason this GB exists is to create a set with ISO options. And given that it's such an extremely complete and beautiful set of keys this might attract people who are unable  to get one otherwise. The only problem will be to reach them.

It's 199€ whole btw, and cutting corners on this is so extremely useless, it might as well be one. Apart from black mods maybe. GMK Ansi is a bit less than half that price… but also, well, Ansi.

Given all that it's still a ****ing steep price for a set of keycaps, and the MOQ certainly won't help us at all. Also the  language packs require all the other stuff as well, since it's not a common colour.
I'm still undecided if I want to spend that much money, but I might.

[IvanIvanovich]

I'm working up some ideas for 'lite' version to fall on if things are looking too grim. Some things will have to get compromised or sacrificed obviously to make it cheaper, but I will still try best to keep in as many languages and configurations possible.

[bueller]

I'm working up some ideas for 'lite' version to fall on if things are looking too grim. Some things will have to get compromised or sacrificed obviously to make it cheaper, but I will still try best to keep in as many languages and configurations possible.

Sounds good mate, your hard work is appreciated!

[stoic-lemon]

Is the JP set really that much use with out the stupidly small spacebar?

[pix3l_fodder]

I'm working up some ideas for 'lite' version to fall on if things are looking too grim. Some things will have to get compromised or sacrificed obviously to make it cheaper, but I will still try best to keep in as many languages and configurations possible.

Shouldn't have released that information, people will just wait for the 'lite' version. Real shame because I know those language sets wont be included!

[esoomenona]

Man, even though its not cheap, I was quite looking forward to all the caps. Now it seems with the promise of a "lite" version, people won't get in until they see that. I know MOQs are outrageous. I don't know... I just want all the GMK caps, even if it costs me $300 for a set...

[SpAmRaY]

... I just want all the GMK caps...

^^ This is how I look at it as well.

[IvanIvanovich]

Problem with JIS is there is at least 5 'common' spacebar size ranging from 1.75 - 5x. In the case with Japan, I can't do much more than treat them like a Choc Mini user for example, they will simply have to use the stock one or whatever.
Even the 'lite' set will have all the languages, it will just be way stripped down, none of these minor variant. So for example all keys that have only difference is 3rd Alt Gr legend go away, make the set much less.
If people could deal with it, we could make it way smaller still if we get rid of all the different numrow keys with the punctuations. Then we could just have 1 unified alpha numeric set with all the letters and pure punctuation keys. If it was like that the price might be nearly half, but still have 'everything' for complete set in each language with the compromises.

[jonathanyu]

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ivan did a really long and great ic before this group buy

[danielucf]

(Attachment Link)

ivan did a really long and great ic before this group buy

I think a lot of people skipped it because it was just a continuation of the CMYK and purple modifiers interest check. I checked it less frequently because of that. New stuff deserves a new thread, I understand trying to be efficient with posts and threads and stuff, but creating threads is an infinite resource so..... *shrug*

I'm still curious to see how many people expressed interest from various languages. If 10 people wanted a keyboard layout for a rare language is that worth it for all 400+ sets to have the extra keys?

[IvanIvanovich]

Basically it went like this, some languages had a good amount of interest then some languages have 1-5 key that is different than those that were already in. So yes there is some minority language in there, but price difference was small, it's not that serious and make some people interested and happy. I thought it was a good thing to do.
You should have seen the price with FR/BE added in :O

[digi]

Any chance of removing the language pack stuff and just doing a base set w/ mods so it can reach MOQ? I'm very interested in the this GB but doubtful it will reach MOQ. BTW thank you very much Ivan for organizing this.

[bazemk1979]

The options in this sets pretty much covers everything, great for non ANSI users. Question is are there  non ANSI and ANSI users out there that will order 300 of each set? Assuming that MOQ is 300 for each and not 400....

The only way this GB has any chance of reaching MOQ is putting all the options together as 1 unified set, if only 10-15 peeps showed interest for a particular language then the 300 MOQ wont be reached, the only language pack that has a chance is where the ANSI is in the group....

You guys need to combine everything together and start shimming away all the necessary keys, for example after putting everything together as in 1 set this what should be removed from the sets:

1. Alpha base set price €46 / $63

- Remove all the  "blank keys"
- Remove all the keys from 0-9 ( they are available in all langugages if the sets are combined) trim away the necessary fat!

2. US/GB/JA/BR/MX language pack price €36 / $49

- Looks ok

3. US/GB/JA/BR/MX language pack price €36 / $49

- Looks good

4. MODIFIER pack price €41 / $56

- Remove the spacebars (they are in the alpha set already....)
-  Remove all blanks from R4

5. NAV pack price €36 / $49

- Remove all the F1-F12 keys ( they are already in the alpha set....)
- Remove the arrow gamer set ( waste of money)
- Remove the 5 x1 blank keys ( not 100% sure about these , because some peeps may want to have them for all the small boards peeps that complain the keys are not in proper formation, at least having blanks will keep the formation (page up,page dn, prt scrn,end are all stuffed on the right side on the board) for example the LZ SE non TKL, noppo choc mini, and few other ones, the smaller version.
- Remove the P1-P5  keys
- Remove the windowed x1 R4 ----> EDIT: Leave the windowed key because this one + the FN x1 R4 can be used for the x1.5 x1 x1.5 x7 AKA Cheat layout

[IvanIvanovich]

Yep...trimming the fat!


Thoughts?

[Photoelectric]

How many people would be interested in having all those blank caps along with legend caps?  Seems like an odd mix: either go mostly blank or have legends for everything.  My bad if that was a popular choice, but if you're going to combine everything into one set, might as well skip those blanks?

[digi]

How many people would be interested in having all those blank caps along with legend caps?  Seems like an odd mix: either go mostly blank or have legends for everything.  My bad if that was a popular choice, but if you're going to combine everything into one set, might as well skip those blanks?

Agreed

[pix3l_fodder]

I like that youre trimming, but would prefer the alts on the number row. Separate the numpad bit! With the GH60 soon, I can see a lot of people not requiring the number pad.

[gojira54]

If you are going for a cut down version to the minimum why not lose all the blanks too?
How much is likely to be saved in doing this?

[IvanIvanovich]

Blanks, they are practically free in the context of these sets and are always potentially very useful. There are lots of other layouts that we don't have covered, and they could be used for all sorts of other things. Lost some key in other set, well there you go you have a key. Need some non standard position keys on your custom layout whatever the hell, you are covered. Want to build a gibberish layout second set with remainder keys, it's probably possible there is enough?

Keeping the generic numrow number is much less than keeping all the different ones with a shifted punctuation legend. 10 keys versus a minimum of 23 (I think?) to be correct for each language.

[digi]

Number pads are pretty much always offered in key set GB's. I don't think that would be the show stopper. It's mostly the uncommon keycaps imo.

[SpAmRaY]

If you are going for a cut down version to the minimum why not lose all the blanks too?
How much is likely to be saved in doing this?

I don't think he is going for minimum, there has to be some balance.

The trick is getting kits setup to where each one can reach MOQ but still be at a price point people don't gag over.

Thanks to Ivan for even attempting to put this on, I know he will figure something out 

[bazemk1979]

I like that youre trimming, but would prefer the alts on the number row. Separate the numpad bit! With the GH60 soon, I can see a lot of people not requiring the number pad.

you do know a lot of people want the numberpad.... All the sets need to thought out detailed, decided on what to keep and what not to, decided if some languages are removed how many blanks in the proper row and proper side to be included, how many proper modifiers are needed.....

Then combine the best solution into 1 set, look at it this way, you dump the numeric pad separate from the alphas and you just lost 30% of the buyers

EDIT: Ivan needs 1 complete shimmed down set that will have bunch of blanks, a 1 well thought out set to please everybody..... cut down the prices with trimming the fat and not make mistakes along the process.... very, very hard task because mistake can be easy made in this case....

Once when all is done, get pricing for the full complete set that will fully please 80% of the peeps and 20% will be partially but still pleased, if the price is right after all the fat trimming......

This GB would be a mess if it is run as it started, 2-3 different kits, 1 set for all, start dividing and your screwed..... you have 400 that are buying alpha numeric and reach MOQ, but then you have 200 of them that want a full set and they also want the modifiers, but the modifiers barely reached 200 MOQ.... what then? you end up losing 200 from the alpha/numeric because the modifiers didn't made the MOQ......

This is why this GB needs to be 1 set for all, chances are much greater for reaching MOQ as 1 set FOR ALL!!!!

[IvanIvanovich]

Right, a Balance is what I am trying to do. I still want to keep as much languages and boards compatibility, make some compromises I hope we can live with to make the MOQ. I am only trying to shrink the cost and still keep as much people as possible content with what is available in the end.

I always like to point out, that just because your favorite keyboard is a 75% this week, doesn't mean some killer fullsize you die to have doesn't come out next week and you decide you want to put the groubuy set on that. Well, you don't have enough caps for the whole thing, then what? I know how people can change their favorite stuffs in a heartbeat around this place. Plan for all possibilities! It's better to have more and not need it than have not enough and need it.

[gojira54]

I'd really hope not to lose the region specific numrow.
I personally would rather see a complete set than a butchered one to save 10%

[bazemk1979]

Right, a Balance is what I am trying to do. I still want to keep as much languages and boards compatibility, make some compromises I hope we can live with to make the MOQ. I am only trying to shrink the cost and still keep as much people as possible content with what is available in the end.

I always like to point out, that just because your favorite keyboard is a 75% this week, doesn't mean some killer fullsize you die to have doesn't come out next week and you decide you want to put the groubuy set on that. Well, you don't have enough caps for the whole thing, then what? I know how people can change their favorite stuffs in a heartbeat around this place. Plan for all possibilities! It's better to have more and not need it than have not enough and need it.

Correct, but I think that in order for this GB to have a chance is by you sitting down, sharpening the pencil, don't rush, trim very carefully and fill in the trimmed legend keys with blanks, trim what you can from the modifiers but also very carefully because they are winkeyless, winkey and cheat layouts out there. I see by the pic you already have bunch of extra blanks in all rows, so that should cover the missing languages + 60% boards that have the F row keys, those boards always suffer from not having proper blanks in every row for the right side of the keyboard.

After all trimming is done, double check and put everything together as one BEEFY set, my opinion is you need 1 set for all or all separate sets will fail at the end.

[bueller]

Right, a Balance is what I am trying to do. I still want to keep as much languages and boards compatibility, make some compromises I hope we can live with to make the MOQ. I am only trying to shrink the cost and still keep as much people as possible content with what is available in the end.

I always like to point out, that just because your favorite keyboard is a 75% this week, doesn't mean some killer fullsize you die to have doesn't come out next week and you decide you want to put the groubuy set on that. Well, you don't have enough caps for the whole thing, then what? I know how people can change their favorite stuffs in a heartbeat around this place. Plan for all possibilities! It's better to have more and not need it than have not enough and need it.

 my opinion is you need 1 set for all or all separate sets will fail at the end.

I agree, I think if we can get this to one full set for $150ish it will have a good chance of getting through...

[bazemk1979]

Right, a Balance is what I am trying to do. I still want to keep as much languages and boards compatibility, make some compromises I hope we can live with to make the MOQ. I am only trying to shrink the cost and still keep as much people as possible content with what is available in the end.

I always like to point out, that just because your favorite keyboard is a 75% this week, doesn't mean some killer fullsize you die to have doesn't come out next week and you decide you want to put the groubuy set on that. Well, you don't have enough caps for the whole thing, then what? I know how people can change their favorite stuffs in a heartbeat around this place. Plan for all possibilities! It's better to have more and not need it than have not enough and need it.

 my opinion is you need 1 set for all or all separate sets will fail at the end.

I agree, I think if we can get this to one full set for $150ish it will have a good chance of getting through...

Correct I know it would majorly suck for some language users that they wont get what they want, but look at it this way, you have 4-5 languages that each language got 4-5 votes, these 20 people that voted for the 4-5 languages add $100 more cost to the full set, now that leaves the rest of the 300+ people with popular languages scratching their head over the $250 dollar price tag for a full set...

So in order to make 20 peeps happy set will cost $250 instead of $130-150?  Nope, you just run the GB longer if the 20 peeps decided to drop out, someone else will fill in the spot when GB is run lil longer.

[bueller]

Yeah I'm thinking the same way, it'd be nice to help out as many other regions as possible but you don't want to alienate the ANSI buyers as they're the bulk of the orders.

[bazemk1979]

Yeah I'm thinking the same way, it'd be nice to help out as many other regions as possible but you don't want to alienate the ANSI buyers as they're the bulk of the orders.

**** men 80% are ANSI users..... 15% the popular European ones and the other 5% well don't even know them. Imagine now I go in and start requiring language pack for my personal language MACEDONIAN that uses  weird acupunctures signs in order to melt my languages with the QWERTY..... Yea I should start raising hell why I don't have my language in this GB....

[IvanIvanovich]

All the various other languages besides US make up a lot more than some of you think, something like 40%. Taking them out will not help us reach MOQ. It doesn't matter if the set is XX% cheaper if there are not enough buyers.

[bazemk1979]

All the various other languages besides US make up a lot more than some of you think, something like 40%. Taking them out will not help us reach MOQ. It doesn't matter if the set is XX% cheaper if there are not enough buyers.

Ivan how about you post here the final results of the IC.

post all the languages with the head counts on them and don't forget the ANSI, people want to see the ANSI count, I'm sure there are quite the numbers on UK and DE but how many are for the rest, we want to know if a language pack  added is  justifiable. Are you accepting language pack with 2-3 votes on it?

EDIT: I'm sorry who Am'I kidding, I probably wont even go for this GB since I have my Dolch coming in, but numbers are numbers and this is what they show:

- Pleasing the 10% minority language pack people = cost of set with shipping $200-250
- Pleasing 90% of people and partially pleasing 10% = cost of set with shipping $130-150

If this are not the % numbers then what are they? post the head count language packs from the IC form you had.

[Broadmonkey]

(Attachment Link)

We have a 50 page IC thread, I think  the price just throw people off.

(Attachment Link)

ivan did a really long and great ic before this group buy

... yes... yes, I know that.

[pix3l_fodder]

Yeah I'm thinking the same way, it'd be nice to help out as many other regions as possible but you don't want to alienate the ANSI buyers as they're the bulk of the orders.

**** men 80% are ANSI users..... 15% the popular European ones and the other 5% well don't even know them. Imagine now I go in and start requiring language pack for my personal language MACEDONIAN that uses  weird acupunctures signs in order to melt my languages with the QWERTY..... Yea I should start raising hell why I don't have my language in this GB....

When you run your own group buy, you do that...  I'm happy with what Ivan is offering, even at the current price.