[MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C

[spiceBar]

EDIT March 19th, 2015:

What you will find here is the FIRST version of my method for silencing the upstroke on Topre keyboards.

I have since greatly improved the method by adding a step between steps 4 and 5 below: I use a clothing iron (yes, seriously) to make the landing pads very thin, around 0.15 to 0.20mm (0.006 to 0.008inch).

You will find in the discussion thread that some people have complained that my original method reduced the key travel too much, and that some of the switch tactility was lost. This can be completely fixed by ironing the landing pads. There is a little bit of play on top of the Topre switches, and the thin landing pads can fit there.

With the new method, there is NO REDUCTION IN KEY TRAVEL, and THE SWITCH TACTILITY IS COMPLETELY UNCHANGED. The keyboard is just much more silent.

The method below (and the improved one with ironed landing pads) can be applied to almost any Topre keyboard, including:
- The Leopold FC660C (as shown below)
- The HHKB Pro 2
- The Realforce (all versions)
- The Novatouch
...

My method is not useful for Topre Type-S (silent) models. The mod I describe below has already been done at the factory on these models, except that Topre uses a thicker sound dampening material, and has to use different switch stems to compensate. My mod provides approximately the same noise reduction on the upstroke than the Type-S models. The bottoming-out noise is affected neither in the Type-S nor in my mod, it's still the now legendary "Thock".


ORIGINAL POST:



In this post I will show how to turn your Leopold FC660C into a Type-S FC660C.

I love the FC660C, but to be honest I don't like the sound of non-silenced Topre switches.

The "Thock" part is great, but the "Clack" on the upstroke sucks.

On Cherry switches (reds and browns), I use grease (a lot of it) to dampen the sound on the upstroke. It works well but it changes the feel of the switch.

On Topre switches, it takes a lot more work, but the result is really worth it and it does not change much the feel of the switch, which is a good thing.

I did not invent the method. I have read it from several sources, when it was applied to the HHKB. I have just applied it to the FC660C and as I have not seen it documented anywhere else, I thought I should do it.

To silence the board, you will need to disassemble it almost completely. It's not too difficult, but it takes some time. The mod took me 4 hours, but I did some tests during this time (with O-rings and soft landing pads). I think it can be done in 2 or 3 hours.

In the following video, you can hear the difference between silenced keys (the two top rows of the keyboard) and the non-silenced ones (two bottom rows):

(This may play upside down, and I'm sorry if it does)
http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4


For the mod, you will need mainly the soft landing pads sold by EliteKeyboards, or some equivalent.

Here is a link to the product:
  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads&pid=sl120_cs

These pads are normally used in Cherry MX switches to dampen the sound of the bottoming-out (downstroke). Here, we are going to use them to dampen the sound of the upstroke in Topre switches.

O-rings will not work for the purpose. I'm going to explain why later.

Ideally, you will also need some stabilizer grease (high-viscosity lubricant), like this one from EliteKeyboard:
  http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube


NOTE: the feel of the Topre switches is SLIGHTLY altered by the mod. The travel of the keys is very slightly shortened. In my opinion, the pleasure of typing on Topre switches is still 100% there, and the reduction of the upstroke noise makes the board sound much better: the board just "Thocks" and doesn't "Clack" anymore. However you may want to try the mod on a single row of the keyboard at first, just to see if you like it… Anyway the mod is 100% reversible. You can go back to the original feel of the keyboard at any time if you don't like the mod.


Here is the procedure:

1. Unplug then disassemble the keyboard. You will first need to remove the screw located under the circular "Quality Control" sticker. It's under the keyboard, approximately under the Enter key. Then you need to un-clip the top part of the case. When you look at the bottom of the keyboard, you will see the holes where you can insert a flat screwdriver. You may need several of them inserted at the same time to be able to remove the top of the case (I have been able to do it with a flat screwdriver and a plastic ruler but it was no fun).

When the top of the case has been removed, the keys and the PCB remain connected to the bottom part with a flat (ribbon) cable. You need to unplug this cable. It has a small connector that can be plugged and unplugged many times without damage. You will need a small flat screwdriver to take to two parts of the plug apart. I forgot to take pictures of this stage, sorry about this.


2. Once the connector has been unplugged, the work on the mechanical switches can start. At the back of the PCB you will find approximately 25 screws (!). The silver ones are screwed into the metal plate, the black ones are screwed into the plastic housing of the keys. Remove them all. You don't really need to remember where they come from: the black ones are marked with a white arrow on the PCB, the silver ones are marked with a circle. There is only one size for each type, so just unscrew them all and be confident that it will be easy to put them back later.



(I had already removed some screws)


3. Now you have two parts: the PCB with the cloud of boobs, and the metal plate with the plastic switch housings. Be careful not to remove the rubber domes. They are lightly glued to the PCB, but they can be removed a little bit too easily. I know, because it happened to me, and then it was not easy to put back the dome and the conical spring exactly where they had to be. You are going to work only of the metal plate part, but you will have to put it back on the PCB sometimes and that's when you could move a rubber dome by accident.




4. In this picture you can see the switch housings.




Inside every of them you can see the plunger, a small part with two rectangular holes. They also have two small legs on opposite corners. We are going to put a soft landing pad on the stem of every plunger, so it will look like this, seen from the side:




And seen from the top:




The idea is that when the plunger goes up during the upstroke, it will not hit the plastic housing. The landing pad will absorb the shock, and reduce almost completely the "Clack" on the upstroke. The travel of the key will be reduced by less than a millimeter, which does not affect much the feel of the Topre switches.

Some of you may ask if it is also possible to use O-rings. I have tried, and the answer is: almost. Here is how an O-ring on the plunger looks like:




When the O-ring sits like that, it works well. However, O-rings tend to have a life of their own on lubricated Topre stems, and after a while some end up like this:




And when it happens, it is bad because the key cannot go back all the way up. You get a dead key. This has not happened to me with landing pads, so I recommend landing pads.

What you need to do right now is put a landing pad on the stem of every plunger. But to do this you need to remove the keycaps. We could have done this before disassembling the keyboard, but I chose to do it while the keyboard was disassembled because I wanted to test what I was doing and that implied removing and putting back the keycaps several times. That's how I was able to test O-rings and find out that they did not do the job.

To remove the keycaps, just put the metal plate back on the PCB. The rubber domes will push the plungers and you will be able to use a keycap remover.


5. Now we need to eject the plungers from the plastic housings. Do this only for the keys that do not have a stabilizer (we will see how to handle them later). When the keycaps have been removed, you need to push quite hard with either the tip of your finger or with a screwdriver on the plunger to eject it:




The plunger will pop out of the housing and you will be able to equip it with a soft landing pad as pictured above. Then you put back the plunger inside the housing.

IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM CAPTAIN OBVIOUS: two opposite corners of the landing pads must be aligned with the legs of the plunger. If they are not, the landing pad will block the plunger and the key will not work.


6. The keys that have a stabilizer are more difficult to mod. In this picture you see 3 of them:




They need to be completely disassembled and ideally even removed from the metal plate.

They are inserted in the metal plate by force, so you can remove them by inserting a small flat screwdriver between their plastic housing and the plate.

Here is the housing of a key with a stabilizer, removed from the plate:




Around the hole in the metal plate, you can see that I have applied some stabilizer grease (high viscosity grease). This will reduce some noise caused by the play between the housing and the metal plate. To be honest I'm not sure this step is required, so maybe you do not need to remove the housings from the metal plate.

To disassemble the stabilizer, use a screwdriver to unclip the middle of the wire out of the housing. You will then be able to disengage the bended ends. Only then will you be able to remove the plunger.

You can see that the plunger of the stabilized keys is different: it is much longer. This will force us to use more than one landing pad. In the image above you can see one possible way to do it: two halves of a landing pad are glued inside the housing. However, this is not my preferred method. Below you will see a better way to do it:




Two halves of a landing pad are glued directly on the plunger so they extend the one that is placed around the stem. This prevent the right and left part of the long plunger to hit the inside of the housing on the upstroke.

When you have done this, you can reassemble the stabilized key housing and force it back into the plate hole. It is also a good idea to add some stabilizer grease at both ends of the wire.

Fortunately, the space bar has a stabilizer wire but is very easy to mod. You just need to put a landing pad around the stem of the plunger and put some grease at the end of the wire. Please note that the space bar has a special spring, just don't forget to put it back in place before inserting the space bar keycap.


When you have put landing pads on all the plungers, you can just reassemble the keyboard and enjoy the sound!

Before you screw back all the keys on the PCB, it may be a good idea to reconnect the ribbon cable, put the plate with the keys and keycaps on the PCB and connect the USB cable of the keyboard to test if every key is still working. If a key does not work (probably because a rubber dome has been moved), at least you will not have to remove all the screws again.


Credits (these were about silencing the HHKB):
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.0
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34972.0
  http://www.key-bored.net/hhkb2-silencing-mod/
 

My apologies for all "prior art" I have failed to mention.

[Sniping]

Great job on the very thorough guide! Is there any way you can re-record the sound of the board though? It seems really quiet for some reason and I can't really make out the sound of the silenced board.

[spiceBar]

Great job on the very thorough guide! Is there any way you can re-record the sound of the board though? It seems really quiet for some reason and I can't really make out the sound of the silenced board.

OK, I'm going to normalize the sound without degrading the quality.

[spiceBar]

Done. Sound amplified by +12dB.

[o2dazone]

Those pads look pretty thick. Any noticeable difference in the throw of the switch? Looks great btw, thanks for taking the time to document another silencing mod

edit: I should read rather than just look at pretty pictures. Well done!

[longweight]

Nice mod!

[tp4tissue]

Good mod of a terribly outdated/ flawed staggered qwerty keyboard..

Fantastic guide.

Thanks

[spiceBar]

I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

[TimIsABat]

I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

The beginning looks like you are blessing the keyboards with clicks.

[s0ckpupp3t]

The beginning looks like you are blessing the keyboards with clicks.

+1 LOL

[tbc]

can someone with the type-s confirm the mod sounds like the HHKB type-s?

the sound difference in this video is much more extreme than in other youtube videos (although it seems more than likely this is due to compression)

[spiceBar]

can someone with the type-s confirm the mod sounds like the HHKB type-s?

the sound difference in this video is much more extreme than in other youtube videos (although it seems more than likely this is due to compression)

There is no audio compression in my recordings. By this I mean no compression of the dynamic of the sound (difference between loud and soft sounds).

The sound difference between silenced and non-silenced is indeed amazing, but please note that I have used soft landing pads to dampen the upstroke. In all the other mods that I have been able to see (or listen to), dental rubber bands or specially crafted thinner rings had been used.

I have noticed that my mod seems to produce a more effective silencing that dental rubber bands. If it is, then it is by accident. I have used soft landing pads because I did not have dental rubber bands, and because O-rings seemed to cause problems with some keys getting stuck.

It would be very interesting if someone who has both soft landing pads and dental rubber bands tried the mod to confirm that soft landing pads are more effective at silencing the keyboard's upstrokes.

[o2dazone]

can someone with the type-s confirm the mod sounds like the HHKB type-s?

the sound difference in this video is much more extreme than in other youtube videos (although it seems more than likely this is due to compression)

MMB can - he's got both.
I also got a chance to use his (we work at the same place, so I got a chance to compare the modded hhkb to his stock type s). the modded hhkb is quieter and feels more solid (in my opinion). He also has a modded 55g hhkb with lube and dental bands. feels incredibly well built compared to the type s (again, my opinion)

[o2dazone]

I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

from thock to thump - I love it - nice job spiceBar

[spiceBar]

I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

from thock to thump - I love it - nice job spiceBar

Thanks!

I'm modding the Realforce right now, still using the landing pads (I had ordered 4x120 pieces, so I have more than enough). Should be finished in less than one hour.

[Moosecraft]

What ever happened to dental bands?
I thought that was the best way to silence topre boards.

[TimIsABat]

I am planning to apply the same mod to my RealForce 88UB.

Before I do it, I wanted to keep a record of how it sounded vs the already silenced FC660C. What is interesting is that before being silenced, the FC660C sounded almost exactly like the RF.

After the mod, I expect the RF to sound like the silenced FC660C.

Link to the already posted video where I compare the top two silenced rows of the FC660C vs the rest of the non-silenced board:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Link to the new video where I compare the sound of the standard RF to the silenced FC660C.
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF88_vs_Silenced FC660C.mp4
At the start of the video I have used a blue Cherry MX as a kind of reference sound over the two keyboards. It shows that the sound of the two keyboards is picked up evenly by the mic.

The sound has been recorded with a Blue Snowflake mic (you can see it in the video) and not compressed much. If I posted this on YouTube, I would expect the sound to be significantly degraded.

from thock to thump - I love it - nice job spiceBar

Thanks!

I'm modding the Realforce right now, still using the landing pads (I had ordered 4x120 pieces, so I have more than enough). Should be finished in less than one hour.

Wanna send me some landing pads fo my hhkb free ?

[spiceBar]

I am having trouble with the soft landing pads in the Realforce 88UB.

They still work perfectly in the Leopold FC660C and give it an amazing "Thump"® sound, but in the Realforce I have a few keys that do not work anymore, most probably because the landing pads are slightly too thick for this model.

I'm going to disassemble the Realforce (again!) and try to find a fix. I really want to get this "Thump" from the Realforce as well!

I'll keep you informed of my progress.

[spiceBar]

OK I finally modded the RealForce using the same technique as the FC660C: soft landing pads.

The RealForce sounds - as expected - absolutely great: "Thump Thump Thump" without any plastic "Klang" on the upstroke.

That's not only a really classy sound, but it's also a now a really stealth keyboard. You have the pleasure of the Topre feel and you will not disturb anyone around.

The problem with the RealForce is that the tolerance on the thickness of the landing pads is smaller. I had actually only one key with such a tolerance problem. To solve it, I used a hot iron (on "silk" setting) to crush a landing pad. I put the landing pad between two sheets of paper and pressed on the sandwich with the iron. I repeated several times until the landing pad was noticeably thinner. That solved the problem with the key.

The other problem I had was on all the keys with stabilizers. In my OP I described how I put one landing pad on the stem and I glue two halves around it to extend it. This does not work as well in the RealForce. So on the stabilized keys, you just put one landing pad on the stem, as on any other key, and you are done with it.

Now I guess you guys are waiting for another video comparing the silenced FC660C with the Silenced RealForce...

[o2dazone]

If you wanted to silence an HHKB, but wanted to keep the feeling as true to original as possible, would you suggest your ironing method on the landing pads? Or is the feeling still noticeable even on the flattened pads?

[spiceBar]

If you wanted to silence an HHKB, but wanted to keep the feeling as true to original as possible, would you suggest your ironing method on the landing pads? Or is the feeling still noticeable even on the flattened pads?

I do not own an HHKB, but I believe that Topre switches are the same in any keyboard that uses them (you can see it from the pictures of all these keyboards internals).

I would indeed recommend the ironing method. It's a bit more of work, but from my experience the slimmed landing pads do a better job of preserving the feel of the Topre switches and the sound dampening on the upstroke is exactly the same (compared to a non-ironed landing pad).

Once ironed as I did, the width of the landing pad is slightly more than 0.5mm. The original landing pad is closer to 1mm. The half millimeter you are saving makes a small difference in feel, and reduces the risk that a key stay always actuated (which is my case happened only once out of 88 keys and was easily fixed).

I still hope that someone will try both rubber bands and landing pads in a single keyboard so we can finally know if landing pads do a better job at silencing. I suspect they do because the landing pads are made from a sheet of rubber foam (soft), while the rubber bands are plain rubber (hard).

If they don't, I guess that rubber bands is an easier method.

[Netbootz]

...

Now I guess you guys are waiting for another video comparing the silenced FC660C with the Silenced RealForce...

Please yes! Post vid/audio.  The other videos already sold me your upstroke damp method - I have the FC660C and the RF 87u too so this is exactly my situation.

[divito]

Silenced keyboards sound so dead to me I don't think I could ever do that to one of my babies.

[Neo.X]

very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing

[spiceBar]

very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

[Netbootz]

that is a clear difference - wow.  God job and thanks for posting the how-to

[takethree]

very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Apologies if it has been posted before but has the guide to "silence" the Realforce 87U been posted? I can't seem to find it. I would like to do the same for my Realforce 86U but I've never done anything more than changing keycaps. Any soldering involved?

Thanks.

[spiceBar]

very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Apologies if it has been posted before but has the guide to "silence" the Realforce 87U been posted? I can't seem to find it. I would like to do the same for my Realforce 86U but I've never done anything more than changing keycaps. Any soldering involved?

Thanks.

I have postponed releasing this guide due to a perceived lack of interest.

No soldering. You basically do the same as in the guide for the FC660C, except that you need to use a clothing iron to slim the landing pads down to half their initial width (or just a little more). That's all.

Use a sheet of paper to sandwich a landing pad. Apply the iron and press for a given number of seconds. The time depends on the iron's temperature. You need to try first on a few landing pads until you find the right temperature and the right time.

Nothing really complicated. Once you have found the temperature and the time, it's just a lot of work to slim them all down, and then to install them. But the result is amazing. Now that I own an HHKB Type-S, I can tell you the mod is much better than a Type-S.

[takethree]

very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Apologies if it has been posted before but has the guide to "silence" the Realforce 87U been posted? I can't seem to find it. I would like to do the same for my Realforce 86U but I've never done anything more than changing keycaps. Any soldering involved?

Thanks.

I have postponed releasing this guide due to a perceived lack of interest.

No soldering. You basically do the same as in the guide for the FC660C, except that you need to use a clothing iron to slim the landing pads down to half their initial width (or just a little more). That's all.

Use a sheet of paper to sandwich a landing pad. Apply the iron and press for a given number of seconds. The time depends on the iron's temperature. You need to try first on a few landing pads until you find the right temperature and the right time.

Nothing really complicated. Once you have found the temperature and the time, it's just a lot of work to slim them all down, and then to install them. But the result is amazing. Now that I own an HHKB Type-S, I can tell you the mod is much better than a Type-S.

Thanks. I'll see if I can gather up the courage later to dismantle it.

[Air tree]

very interesting mod. I have a lot of O-ring left, I guess I can try this on my RF.

Thanks for sharing

I have modded my two Realforce 87U and taken a lot of pictures. I'm planning on posting the guide soon.

Beware with the O-rings, as I explained.

Soft landing pads work better in my experience, but for the Realforce they must be ironed in order to make them a little slimmer. This is what I am going to document soon.

The result with the Realforce is stunning. Soft landing pads, filling inside the board and rubber foam feet make it feel even more solid and incredibly silent.

Silenced RF87U vs non-silenced one:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

Apologies if it has been posted before but has the guide to "silence" the Realforce 87U been posted? I can't seem to find it. I would like to do the same for my Realforce 86U but I've never done anything more than changing keycaps. Any soldering involved?

Thanks.

I have postponed releasing this guide due to a perceived lack of interest.

No soldering. You basically do the same as in the guide for the FC660C, except that you need to use a clothing iron to slim the landing pads down to half their initial width (or just a little more). That's all.

Use a sheet of paper to sandwich a landing pad. Apply the iron and press for a given number of seconds. The time depends on the iron's temperature. You need to try first on a few landing pads until you find the right temperature and the right time.

Nothing really complicated. Once you have found the temperature and the time, it's just a lot of work to slim them all down, and then to install them. But the result is amazing. Now that I own an HHKB Type-S, I can tell you the mod is much better than a Type-S.

Hmm I guess I will be doing the landing pad method then.

My HHKB is going to sound like Topre sex.

[intelli78]

I posted relevant info here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42825.msg1236363#new

[Slowdiving]

Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

[spiceBar]

Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

[Slowdiving]

Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Yes: EK landing pad and an iron.  Hopefully someday they'll offer slimmer ones so we can omit the ironing step.   Like you, I only had one key act weird (g) when I went to test it (chattering).  Luckily, it smoothed itself out.
I noticed you mentioned lubing the spacebar on intelli's thread.  Do you have any advice for where to get this lube?  Also, is this applicable for the LCtrl key?  I found that it has an odd arrangement that doesn't allow a pad to attach anywhere.

[spiceBar]

Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Yes: EK landing pad and an iron.  Hopefully someday they'll offer slimmer ones so we can omit the ironing step.   Like you, I only had one key act weird (g) when I went to test it (chattering).  Luckily, it smoothed itself out.
I noticed you mentioned lubing the spacebar on intelli's thread.  Do you have any advice for where to get this lube?  Also, is this applicable for the LCtrl key?  I found that it has an odd arrangement that doesn't allow a pad to attach anywhere.

Some slimmed down landing pads tend to fold once they are inserted around a plunger. It may be the cause of the trouble with your G key. You must be careful about this. If the landing pad folds, remove it, flip it, and insert it again. It should be OK then. Once the plunger is back into the switch housing, the landing pad will be compressed by the spring and the dome, so over time it will stay flat and never fold. But if it has folded before you reassembled the switch, it will not unfold by itself.

About the space bar: you insert a landing pad exactly like in any other key. You use EK's blue grease at every point where the stabilizer wire touches plastic. You may want to add non-slimmed down landing pads under the space bar, on the two stabilizers inserts.

All the grease does is to fill the space where the wire can move between the plastic holes. This stops the wire from hitting the plastic and making noise. There is actually no lubing required for these wires (unless they squeak), but the grease acts as a kind of never drying glue.

Never put grease on the sliders, especially not the blue or red one from EK, that would ruin the switch (they would become extremely sticky and you would have to clean them to remove the grease).

Don't put grease in the Ctrl key. It comes pre-lubed. You need to cut two small pieces out of a landing pad and glue them inside the switch housing instead of putting a landing pad around the slider (doing so jams the switch, as you have noticed). I have used neoprene glue, I'm not sure it's the best one for this use, but it worked well. You need first to remove the lube at the points where you will put glue, but that's obvious. That's all you must do on the Ctrl key. It will never feel perfect, but you can't do any better as fas as I know.

[intelli78]

I finally got the soft landing pads and redid my FC660C. I ironed the pads-- had to use a lot more heat/force than expected. For each batch of ~6, I had my iron on max power, applying full arm strength for a good 20 seconds. This yielded ~0.4mm pads that do not change the keyfeel at all, and do not cause any false keypresses. The sound is the same as the video I posted before.

Couple of other notes that may be helpful for others--

1. The holes in the soft landing pads are too small, but the pads stretch and can be smashed down such that they don't bunch up around the switch cylinders. I used the tip of a precision screwdriver to smash the soft landing pads down around the cylinders.

2. Where spiceBar glued landing pads onto stabilized keys, I instead used strips of 3 landing pads (they come perforated; I tore off 3x1 strips). This required trimming around the edges but worked well ;no glue required.

[spiceBar]

I finally got the soft landing pads and redid my FC660C. I ironed the pads-- had to use a lot more heat/force than expected. For each batch of ~6, I had my iron on max power, applying full arm strength for a good 20 seconds. This yielded ~0.4mm pads that do not change the keyfeel at all, and do not cause any false keypresses. The sound is the same as the video I posted before.

Couple of other notes that may be helpful for others--

1. The holes in the soft landing pads are too small, but the pads stretch and can be smashed down such that they don't bunch up around the switch cylinders. I used the tip of a precision screwdriver to smash the soft landing pads down around the cylinders.

2. Where spiceBar glued landing pads onto stabilized keys, I instead used strips of 3 landing pads (they come perforated; I tore off 3x1 strips). This required trimming around the edges but worked well ;no glue required.

#2 is a nice idea, but I forgot to mention (or maybe I already mentioned it) that for the next Topre keyboards that I have done I have changed my method for stabilized keys. These keys are actually just larger keys, because on Topre they don't need any stabilizing mechanism (except the space bar). So I did them exactly like any other key, with just one landing pad on the stem, saving me some significant time. The result was OK, and a mod without glue is always better, as it makes going back to the initial state easier.

It is possible that your method gives a better sound dampening, and clearly it does not consume more time than a single landing pad on the stem, so it's interesting.

[intelli78]

I tried putting one landing pad on, but the damping did not seem very effective. Granted, this was before I screwed the keyboard back together, so it's possible it would have changed once everything was nice and tight. In any case, it's in good shape now. I did, however, manage to lose the single screw for the case. Gotta figure out the part I need from Ace.

[spiceBar]

I tried putting one landing pad on, but the damping did not seem very effective. Granted, this was before I screwed the keyboard back together, so it's possible it would have changed once everything was nice and tight. In any case, it's in good shape now. I did, however, manage to lose the single screw for the case. Gotta figure out the part I need from Ace.

The problem I have noticed with the large keys is that the switch housing moves inside its plate hole. That's where the residual noise comes from on these keys once you have silenced them with landing pads. It took me a while and several disassembling/reassembling of the FC660C to figure this out (and you know it's a pain! ).

The Realforces have exactly the same problem. It's not a loud noise, it's just a tiny click, but once you have silenced the keyboard, it becomes noticeable. The HHKB does not have the problem, as there is no individual switch housing in it.

You can check this even when the keyboard is fully assembled. Just remove the keycaps of a large key and try to move the switch housing.

When I first noticed the noise, I thought I had not tightened the screws enough. But tightening them does not solve the problem.

To eliminate this noise, you use sticky silicon grease (like EK blue) that you put around the plate holes of the large keys. I have documented this in my OP. Unfortunately this can be done only when the keyboard is disassembled.

[Slowdiving]

Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Yes: EK landing pad and an iron.  Hopefully someday they'll offer slimmer ones so we can omit the ironing step.   Like you, I only had one key act weird (g) when I went to test it (chattering).  Luckily, it smoothed itself out.
I noticed you mentioned lubing the spacebar on intelli's thread.  Do you have any advice for where to get this lube?  Also, is this applicable for the LCtrl key?  I found that it has an odd arrangement that doesn't allow a pad to attach anywhere.

Some slimmed down landing pads tend to fold once they are inserted around a plunger. It may be the cause of the trouble with your G key. You must be careful about this. If the landing pad folds, remove it, flip it, and insert it again. It should be OK then. Once the plunger is back into the switch housing, the landing pad will be compressed by the spring and the dome, so over time it will stay flat and never fold. But if it has folded before you reassembled the switch, it will not unfold by itself.

About the space bar: you insert a landing pad exactly like in any other key. You use EK's blue grease at every point where the stabilizer wire touches plastic. You may want to add non-slimmed down landing pads under the space bar, on the two stabilizers inserts.

All the grease does is to fill the space where the wire can move between the plastic holes. This stops the wire from hitting the plastic and making noise. There is actually no lubing required for these wires (unless they squeak), but the grease acts as a kind of never drying glue.

Never put grease on the sliders, especially not the blue or red one from EK, that would ruin the switch (they would become extremely sticky and you would have to clean them to remove the grease).

Don't put grease in the Ctrl key. It comes pre-lubed. You need to cut two small pieces out of a landing pad and glue them inside the switch housing instead of putting a landing pad around the slider (doing so jams the switch, as you have noticed). I have used neoprene glue, I'm not sure it's the best one for this use, but it worked well. You need first to remove the lube at the points where you will put glue, but that's obvious. That's all you must do on the Ctrl key. It will never feel perfect, but you can't do any better as fas as I know.

Thanks for your help and for the tut.  The key distance on my mod is definitely shorter.  I have the feeling that I should re do all of them after reading

This yielded ~0.4mm pads that do not change the keyfeel at all, and do not cause any false keypresses.

[spiceBar]

Thanks OP for posting about this.  I did this to my RF87 45g:  sounds amazing.  Also put some cabinet liner in the case + placed it on a improvised desk mat. 
The result:  a very passive but satisfying sound.

Did you use EK's landing pads? Did you slim them down with a clothing iron?

Yes: EK landing pad and an iron.  Hopefully someday they'll offer slimmer ones so we can omit the ironing step.   Like you, I only had one key act weird (g) when I went to test it (chattering).  Luckily, it smoothed itself out.
I noticed you mentioned lubing the spacebar on intelli's thread.  Do you have any advice for where to get this lube?  Also, is this applicable for the LCtrl key?  I found that it has an odd arrangement that doesn't allow a pad to attach anywhere.

Some slimmed down landing pads tend to fold once they are inserted around a plunger. It may be the cause of the trouble with your G key. You must be careful about this. If the landing pad folds, remove it, flip it, and insert it again. It should be OK then. Once the plunger is back into the switch housing, the landing pad will be compressed by the spring and the dome, so over time it will stay flat and never fold. But if it has folded before you reassembled the switch, it will not unfold by itself.

About the space bar: you insert a landing pad exactly like in any other key. You use EK's blue grease at every point where the stabilizer wire touches plastic. You may want to add non-slimmed down landing pads under the space bar, on the two stabilizers inserts.

All the grease does is to fill the space where the wire can move between the plastic holes. This stops the wire from hitting the plastic and making noise. There is actually no lubing required for these wires (unless they squeak), but the grease acts as a kind of never drying glue.

Never put grease on the sliders, especially not the blue or red one from EK, that would ruin the switch (they would become extremely sticky and you would have to clean them to remove the grease).

Don't put grease in the Ctrl key. It comes pre-lubed. You need to cut two small pieces out of a landing pad and glue them inside the switch housing instead of putting a landing pad around the slider (doing so jams the switch, as you have noticed). I have used neoprene glue, I'm not sure it's the best one for this use, but it worked well. You need first to remove the lube at the points where you will put glue, but that's obvious. That's all you must do on the Ctrl key. It will never feel perfect, but you can't do any better as fas as I know.

Thanks for your help and for the tut.  The key distance on my mod is definitely shorter.  I have the feeling that I should re do all of them after reading

This yielded ~0.4mm pads that do not change the keyfeel at all, and do not cause any false keypresses.

It's a matter of taste. I did not redo my FC660C and my Realforce 88. They have non slimmed down landing pads inside, which works because they have 45g springs/domes. Consequently, the dome collapse is less pronounced, but I don't mind.

On the Realforce 87U, which has lighter switches (down to 30g on some keys), ironing the pads was absolutely mandatory. If I had to redo it, I would definitely slim them down harder, to 0.4-0.3mm. 0.5mm works, but hides a little bit of the dome collapse as well, taking a little bit of the switch snappiness.

On the other hand the Thock is still there absolutely intact, and the switches feel very very smooth and silent. I'll leave them as they are.

[Hypersphere]

Has anyone tried the firm (gray) landing pads for this mod as opposed to the soft (black) landing pads? Thanks.

[riotonthebay]

Has anyone tried the firm (gray) landing pads for this mod as opposed to the soft (black) landing pads? Thanks.

I believe the whole point of using the soft ones is that they can be ironed down. Presumably the firm pads are denser, and thus cannot be thinned like the soft ones can. I don't believe they'd work well with this mod.

[intelli78]

Has anyone tried the firm (gray) landing pads for this mod as opposed to the soft (black) landing pads? Thanks.

I believe the whole point of using the soft ones is that they can be ironed down. Presumably the firm pads are denser, and thus cannot be thinned like the soft ones can. I don't believe they'd work well with this mod.

Correct. You don't stand to gain anything from using the gray pads. You want the pads as soft and thin as possible, otherwise you will go to false keypress city.

[riotonthebay]

I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

[epzy]

I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

 

[Air tree]

I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

Any chance of a sound test? Just want to hear how this mod sounds on a case mounted board vs plate.

[riotonthebay]

I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

Any chance of a sound test? Just want to hear how this mod sounds on a case mounted board vs plate.

It doesn't sound noticeably different to me than SpiceBar's videos. I don't have good sound recording equipment either, so I don't think a comparison would be particularly valuable here.

[1pq]

I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

I'm wondering your thoughts on how it affects feel. Did you notice any decrease in tactility?

[riotonthebay]

I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

I'm wondering your thoughts on how it affects feel. Did you notice any decrease in tactility?

The HHKB is a strange keyboard when it comes to tactility. In my opinion, the feel of the switch is defined by the sudden collapse of the dome and the reasonably soft bottom-out which is a product of the HHKB being a plastic case-mount board. Neither of these things are affected in the slightest.

There is of course a tactile bump as well at the very top of the switch throw, and I cannot remember it being any different before I silenced it. There's a chance that it is less tactile, but any difference that I cannot remember is negligible in my opinion .

All in all, I'm very happy that I made this switch. A little while ago I started the mod but stopped after not particularly caring for the modded top-row, but I'm now attributing that to be being over-excited by Topre in the first place and not wanting to do anything that would mess with the feels of the cup rubber. There's a big difference between typing on only one row of modded switches and typing on an entire keyboard, and now that I've done it to the entire keyboard I wouldn't go back.

[1pq]

I lubed and silenced my HHKB using this method yesterday. The result is fantastic. I've never used a Type-S, but this mod has completely eliminated any upstroke click without changing the feel of the keyboard. I'm officially a silenced Topre convert.

I'm wondering your thoughts on how it affects feel. Did you notice any decrease in tactility?

The HHKB is a strange keyboard when it comes to tactility. In my opinion, the feel of the switch is defined by the sudden collapse of the dome and the reasonably soft bottom-out which is a product of the HHKB being a plastic case-mount board. Neither of these things are affected in the slightest.

There is of course a tactile bump as well at the very top of the switch throw, and I cannot remember it being any different before I silenced it. There's a chance that it is less tactile, but any difference that I cannot remember is negligible in my opinion .

All in all, I'm very happy that I made this switch. A little while ago I started the mod but stopped after not particularly caring for the modded top-row, but I'm now attributing that to be being over-excited by Topre in the first place and not wanting to do anything that would mess with the feels of the cup rubber. There's a big difference between typing on only one row of modded switches and typing on an entire keyboard, and now that I've done it to the entire keyboard I wouldn't go back.

Ugh, now you're making me want to lube and silence my 55g 87U )
Did you use thick or extra thick lube? (mkawa recommends extra thick)

[riotonthebay]

I mix my own lube, but I made it much thicker than I normally would as per ming's recommendation.

[1pq]

I mix my own lube

[riotonthebay]

Currently typing on this silenced HHKB, on top of my laptop keyboard, in bed, next to my sleeping girlfriend.

Silenced Topre is the way to go.

[spiceBar]

Currently typing on this silenced HHKB, on top of my laptop keyboard, in bed, next to my sleeping girlfriend.

Silenced Topre is the way to go.

ABSOLUTELY. DEFINITELY.

It feels and sounds much more classy than non-silenced Topre, in my opinion.

And I still believe the DIY way (with landing pads) is superior to the Type-S. I am even tempted to apply the landing pads silencing mod to my Type-S HHKB.

[NovaTea]

Wooo my EK Landing pads arrived and I applied it immediately on my FC660C but I didn't iron the pads and I could feel the change in travel distance of the key but I'm liking it so far as it's like totally silenced.

[spiceBar]

Wooo my EK Landing pads arrived and I applied it immediately on my FC660C but I didn't iron the pads and I could feel the change in travel distance of the key but I'm liking it so far as it's like totally silenced.

Congratulations, your FC660C has now become a collector's item, as it is one of the very few in the world that has been silenced!

[OnTheBrink]

I don't mean to necro, but this is the first instructions that come up when searching how to silent this keyboard.

I want to add that I did this entire thing and did not like the affect it gave with actuation. It actually made the switch feel linear to me and it ruined the tactile feeling.

I would warn anyone preparing to do this that it will affect the keystroke. Also, it is not something that is easily felt by just changing one key and testing it. It took me doing the whole board, putting it back together and realizing I did not like the change in travel.

[spiceBar]

I don't mean to necro, but this is the first instructions that come up when searching how to silent this keyboard.

I want to add that I did this entire thing and did not like the affect it gave with actuation. It actually made the switch feel linear to me and it ruined the tactile feeling.

I would warn anyone preparing to do this that it will affect the keystroke. Also, it is not something that is easily felt by just changing one key and testing it. It took me doing the whole board, putting it back together and realizing I did not like the change in travel.

You can preserve the feel of the keyboard by slimming down the landing pads. You do that by using a clothing iron on them. You need to make them 0.4-0.3mm thin (from approx. 1mm).

It's more work but the result is worth it.

I have explained this somewhere else, but essentially you slim them down with heat. That's it.

[OnTheBrink]

I don't mean to necro, but this is the first instructions that come up when searching how to silent this keyboard.

I want to add that I did this entire thing and did not like the affect it gave with actuation. It actually made the switch feel linear to me and it ruined the tactile feeling.

I would warn anyone preparing to do this that it will affect the keystroke. Also, it is not something that is easily felt by just changing one key and testing it. It took me doing the whole board, putting it back together and realizing I did not like the change in travel.

You can preserve the feel of the keyboard by slimming down the landing pads. You do that by using a clothing iron on them. You need to make them 0.4-0.3mm thin (from approx. 1mm).

It's more work but the result is worth it.

I have explained this somewhere else, but essentially you slim them down with heat. That's it.

Yeah, I ironed them as well. However, maybe I could've done that a bit longer/better. It's not too tedious if you do it while the landing pads are all together.

With that said, don't get me wrong, it is a great mod. I just wanted to warn people doing this that it gets very tedious and there is the risk you might not like it (as I did). I didn't mean to sabotage your tutorial or anything. Great job and it was fun modding (or attempting to mod) my first keyboard. The instructions were excellent. Although, I would add how to take the plungers out. I had to figure that out on my own and have a hang nail now as a result, lol.

[Latin00032]

I may consider this after I get the board.

I just don't want to break it.

[YoJinBro]

Great guide, thank you for the helpful post! I'm looking for some advice, as I'm not having nearly as much success with this mod.

I tried using some soft landing pads on a few keys on my FC660C, and I just could not stand the shortened key travel distance! With the mod, the keys were visibly shorter, the key actuation distance felt greatly reduced and impacted the feel of the keys very, very negatively (in my opinion).

I also tried flattening the soft landing pads with an iron (a hair flatiron did the trick very well!), and while this helped, there was still a visible difference in key height, and the key actuation distance also felt shorter and did not feel as nice.

Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone else had a similar experience? I recommend trying the mod with just a few keys - the degradation in feel was so apparent!

(Note - I'm not trying to come off as a snob. I agree, the elimination of the *clack* in the key's upstroke is very, very nice, but not at all worth sacrificing the good feeling of oneness with cup rubber that Topre is all about.)

[Lurch]

Great guide, thank you for the helpful post! I'm looking for some advice, as I'm not having nearly as much success with this mod.

I tried using some soft landing pads on a few keys on my FC660C, and I just could not stand the shortened key travel distance! With the mod, the keys were visibly shorter, the key actuation distance felt greatly reduced and impacted the feel of the keys very, very negatively (in my opinion).

I also tried flattening the soft landing pads with an iron (a hair flatiron did the trick very well!), and while this helped, there was still a visible difference in key height, and the key actuation distance also felt shorter and did not feel as nice.

Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone else had a similar experience? I recommend trying the mod with just a few keys - the degradation in feel was so apparent!

(Note - I'm not trying to come off as a snob. I agree, the elimination of the *clack* in the key's upstroke is very, very nice, but not at all worth sacrificing the good feeling of oneness with cup rubber that Topre is all about.)

How flat did you make the landing pads? If I recall correctly, someone was able to flatten the landing pads enough that it did not effect travel distance, but it took quite some effort to make the landing pads as flat as possible.

[spiceBar]

Great guide, thank you for the helpful post! I'm looking for some advice, as I'm not having nearly as much success with this mod.

I tried using some soft landing pads on a few keys on my FC660C, and I just could not stand the shortened key travel distance! With the mod, the keys were visibly shorter, the key actuation distance felt greatly reduced and impacted the feel of the keys very, very negatively (in my opinion).

I also tried flattening the soft landing pads with an iron (a hair flatiron did the trick very well!), and while this helped, there was still a visible difference in key height, and the key actuation distance also felt shorter and did not feel as nice.

Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone else had a similar experience? I recommend trying the mod with just a few keys - the degradation in feel was so apparent!

(Note - I'm not trying to come off as a snob. I agree, the elimination of the *clack* in the key's upstroke is very, very nice, but not at all worth sacrificing the good feeling of oneness with cup rubber that Topre is all about.)

Yes, the mod affects the travel distance a little bit and how the keys feel.

The thinnest you can reasonably go for the landing pad width is approximately 0.3mm. So you reduce the travel distance by this amount. Instead of actuating at 2mm, the keys actuate around 1.7mm.

The rubber dome collapse is also less pronounced.

Is it acceptable or not? It's all a matter of personal taste. I think it turns the FC660C and the Realforce into very classy feeling and sounding keyboards.

Anyway, it's indeed a good idea to try it on a few keys before you decide to do the entire keyboard. That's how I did it.

[telegraphist]

Well, I decided that to me, personally, the best solution would have been a sound dampening mod, which would hopefully might have soften a rather hard feeling of a keystroke as well as audibly "rattling" stabilizers
That is, if I would have decided to hassle with this.
But I decided to avoid all the hassles and risks associated with this and simply sold the board, while it's still nice and new.
CM Novatouch Is clearly is not my cup of tea.
Here are about 1/10-th of the links I have dug up, while researching for a possible mod, hope they could be of help to more adventurous than me.
http://www.geocities.co.jp/kousaku_situ/silent_realforce/srf-pata1.html (Chrome browser acceptably well translates this Japanese page)
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-LB132/Light-Baffle-03125--132.aspx
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/~/C-411/Cutting-Tools.aspx
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/~/C-406/Hole-Punches.aspx
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34972.0
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hhkp-pro-jp-variable-force-silencing-mods-t5196.html
http://imgur.com/a/8vnHb
http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/did-a-silence-mod-on-my-topre-88ub-t5955.html
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40465.30
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53990.0#post_dim
http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Adhesive-Backed-Black-Length-Durometer/dp/B00CCGW2B0/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1413066956&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KE17JO/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_2?rh=n%3A16310091%2Cn%3A%2116310161%2Cn%3A16310191%2Cn%3A350666011%2Cn%3A6469763011&bbn=350666011&ie=UTF8&qid=1412507546&rnid=350666011

[spiceBar]

I do realize that there has been a while since you posted this guide, but I'm sure many are interested in silencing their boards and referring to your guide. I, personally dislike how my new Novatouch sounds and I am currently researching best methods on how to do this as well.
I think that self-adhesive pads cut out of thin rubber sheets may work best for this type of project.
Here are some links that I found, which may be helpful:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/kousaku_situ/silent_realforce/srf-pata1.html (Chrome browser acceptably well translates this Japanese page)
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-LB132/Light-Baffle-03125--132.aspx
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/~/C-411/Cutting-Tools.aspx
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/~/C-406/Hole-Punches.aspx
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34972.0
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/hhkp-pro-jp-variable-force-silencing-mods-t5196.html
http://imgur.com/a/8vnHb
http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/did-a-silence-mod-on-my-topre-88ub-t5955.html
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40465.30
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53990.0#post_dim
http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Adhesive-Backed-Black-Length-Durometer/dp/B00CCGW2B0/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1413066956&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KE17JO/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_2?rh=n%3A16310091%2Cn%3A%2116310161%2Cn%3A16310191%2Cn%3A350666011%2Cn%3A6469763011&bbn=350666011&ie=UTF8&qid=1412507546&rnid=350666011

What you suggest is a possibility, but you need very very thin rubber sheets. As thin as paper.

I have now re-done the silencing of my FC660C.

I have removed all the landing pads, I have slimmed them down really hard with a clothing iron, and put the landing pads back in the keyboard.

I can now say that there is no reduction in key travel anymore. The collapse of the dome can be distinctly felt. In other words, the feel is unchanged compared to the unmodified keyboard, except that it is now silent.

When the landing pads are not in place, there is some play in the keys. You can tell there is some play because when you rub the top of the keys lightly, the keys move and make some clicking noise. The domes do not push the keys completely all the way up. So there is some room to fit very thin pads.

By slimming down the landing pads more than I had already tried, I have been able to make them so thin that they just fit and eliminate the play, without reducing the key travel at all.

I have checked this by modding only part of the keys. This way, I have been able to accurately compare the travel and feel of the modified keys with the original ones.

To do the improved mod, I had to set the clothing iron to its maximum temperature and pressed hard (applying the equivalent of approximately 5-6kg) on the landing pads until they are as thin as a sheet of paper. Apply pressure for 10-15 seconds to do this, or more if needed. Don't press on the landing pads directly with the iron. Put the landing pads between two sheets of paper before you apply pressure with the iron.

You can slim them down 4 by 4.

The landing pads will smell a little bit like burned rubber, which is OK. If the landing pads meld, then you need to use a lower temperature, but it did not happen to me.

Then you have to be a little bit more careful when you put them on the plungers, as they could more easily fold. But I have not found that it is a problem.

Once the keyboard is reassembled, bingo! No reduction in travel distance. The dome collapse is there, unchanged. And the keyboard is really silent.

[LechnerDE]

Thanks for the guide.

Maybe I should try that with my 660C 

[cookie]

As much as I appreciate your mod I highly doubt that Topre switches with such a reduced travel are ejoyable to type on.
The Idea goes in a right direction but the implementation is simply not good enough.

I'd highly recommend a thinner (approximately 0,5mm thick) material wich is out of foam (or simmilar soft material).

[spiceBar]

As much as I appreciate your mod I highly doubt that Topre switches with such a reduced travel are ejoyable to type on.
The Idea goes in a right direction but the implementation is simply not good enough.

I'd highly recommend a thinner (approximately 0,5mm thick) material wich is out of foam (or simmilar soft material).

It looks like you have not read my previous post.

I repeat: you use a clothing iron to slim down the landing pads until they are almost as thin as a sheet of paper. Once you do that, there is no reduction in travel anymore.

Please read my previous post. you are missing something interesting.

[Polymer]

It would be interesting to see if it truly doesn't reduce travel....the longer plungers on the silent Topres is there for a reason..and my topres don't seem to have the play you're talking about..

Still, good to see and good for the community to be able to mod stuff without having to pay a ton extra (although Silent RFs aren't much more).  Plus the 660c doesn't even have that option so even better..

[spiceBar]

It would be interesting to see if it truly doesn't reduce travel....the longer plungers on the silent Topres is there for a reason..and my topres don't seem to have the play you're talking about..

Still, good to see and good for the community to be able to mod stuff without having to pay a ton extra (although Silent RFs aren't much more).  Plus the 660c doesn't even have that option so even better..

The longer plungers are there because it's not an option for them to install, with factory machines, landing pads that are almost as thin as a sheet of paper. Machines couldn't handle the installation of the landing pads, because the machine can insert it wrong and fold it.

It's something you can do only by installing them manually, because when you do it you check visually that it is correctly inserted.

Their only option is to install a bigger silicone ring around the plungers, because that is something a machine can easily do, and it does not need to be visually checked. The machine forces the ring all the way into the plunger at that's all. But the price is that you require a longer plunger.

[cookie]

Apologies!

[Polymer]

It would be interesting to see if it truly doesn't reduce travel....the longer plungers on the silent Topres is there for a reason..and my topres don't seem to have the play you're talking about..

Still, good to see and good for the community to be able to mod stuff without having to pay a ton extra (although Silent RFs aren't much more).  Plus the 660c doesn't even have that option so even better..

The longer plungers are there because it's not an option for them to install, with factory machines, landing pads that are almost as thin as a sheet of paper. Machines couldn't handle the installation of the landing pads, because the machine can insert it wrong and fold it.

It's something you can do only by installing them manually, because when you do it you check visually that it is correctly inserted.

Their only option is to install a bigger silicone ring around the plungers, because that is something a machine can easily do, and it does not need to be visually checked. The machine forces the ring all the way into the plunger at that's all. But the price is that you require a longer plunger.

That's a bit of speculation there...I think they did the longer plunger because it just makes sense to...they could get the padding they wanted with the thickness they wanted and to achieve the feel they wanted they made some longer plungers...

[YoJinBro]

I have now re-done the silencing of my FC660C.

I have removed all the landing pads, I have slimmed them down really hard with a clothing iron, and put the landing pads back in the keyboard.

I can now say that there is no reduction in key travel anymore. The collapse of the dome can be distinctly felt. In other words, the feel is unchanged compared to the unmodified keyboard, except that it is now silent.

When the landing pads are not in place, there is some play in the keys. You can tell there is some play because when you rub the top of the keys lightly, the keys move and make some clicking noise. The domes do not push the keys completely all the way up. So there is some room to fit very thin pads.

By slimming down the landing pads more than I had already tried, I have been able to make them so thin that they just fit and eliminate the play, without reducing the key travel at all.

I have checked this by modding only part of the keys. This way, I have been able to accurately compare the travel and feel of the modified keys with the original ones.

To do the improved mod, I had to set the clothing iron to its maximum temperature and pressed hard (applying the equivalent of approximately 5-6kg) on the landing pads until they are as thin as a sheet of paper. Apply pressure for 10-15 seconds to do this, or more if needed. Don't press on the landing pads directly with the iron. Put the landing pads between two sheets of paper before you apply pressure with the iron.

You can slim them down 4 by 4.

The landing pads will smell a little bit like burned rubber, which is OK. If the landing pads meld, then you need to use a lower temperature, but it did not happen to me.

Then you have to be a little bit more careful when you put them on the plungers, as they could more easily fold. But I have not found that it is a problem.

Once the keyboard is reassembled, bingo! No reduction in travel distance. The dome collapse is there, unchanged. And the keyboard is really silent.

Interesting... So I wasn't aggressive enough with my ironing. I'll keep your notes in mind and give this another shot! Thanks for keeping this guide updated and continuing the experimentation.

[aref]

spiceBar: Excellent/explanatory procedure on your OP. Thank you.

[spiceBar]

spiceBar: Excellent/explanatory procedure on your OP. Thank you.

You are welcome!

Don't forget that my original post is not up to date.

The current method involves all that is described in the OP plus a new step in which you use a very hot clothing iron to flatten the landing pads as much as possible (until they are flat as a sheet of paper... almost). This must be done on a hard surface (I use a wood board).

The ironing step is required in order to perfectly preserve the tactility of the Topre switches.

[atk80]

I just performed this mod to my Novatouch and it worked perfectly. The ironing was a bit tedious, but worked well. Thanks so much!

[SpAmRaY]

spiceBar: Excellent/explanatory procedure on your OP. Thank you.

You are welcome!

Don't forget that my original post is not up to date.

The current method involves all that is described in the OP plus a new step in which you use a very hot clothing iron to flatten the landing pads as much as possible (until they are flat as a sheet of paper... almost). This must be done on a hard surface (I use a wood board).

The ironing step is required in order to perfectly preserve the tactility of the Topre switches.

Any thoughts on a more industrious way to flatten the pads? Some sort of roller perhaps that could flatten all the pads at once? I wonder how hot these pads can get before they melt....I could run them through the lamination roller at work  )

I had mixed success with the iron, I tried ironing too many at once and probably didn't get them all as even as I should have.

[spiceBar]

I just performed this mod to my Novatouch and it worked perfectly. The ironing was a bit tedious, but worked well. Thanks so much!

Congratulations!

The modded Novatouch is my preferred Topre board! I'm typing this answer on mine!

[spiceBar]

spiceBar: Excellent/explanatory procedure on your OP. Thank you.

You are welcome!

Don't forget that my original post is not up to date.

The current method involves all that is described in the OP plus a new step in which you use a very hot clothing iron to flatten the landing pads as much as possible (until they are flat as a sheet of paper... almost). This must be done on a hard surface (I use a wood board).

The ironing step is required in order to perfectly preserve the tactility of the Topre switches.

Any thoughts on a more industrious way to flatten the pads? Some sort of roller perhaps that could flatten all the pads at once? I wonder how hot these pads can get before they melt....I could run them through the lamination roller at work  )

I had mixed success with the iron, I tried ironing too many at once and probably didn't get them all as even as I should have.

As ATK80 said, it's tedious.

I iron them 4 by 4 now. Some end up not perfectly flat, but I notice them and iron them again.

But it's a pain anyway. You need to press really hard on the iron for approximately 20 seconds per batch of 4. You do 22 batches for a TKL, so ironing the landing pads alone takes easily more than one hour.

I don't know how to automate this step. This would require some equipment that is not available to everyone.

Instead of trying to find a way to iron the landing pads, it would be better to find a source for something that would replace the landing pads.

I recommend these specific landing pads only because:
- We have one reliable source (EliteKeyboards.com)
- You will get the same as the ones I have worked with
- You will be able to apply the same method as me and get the same results

It must certainly be possible to find flat rings made of silicone or rubber, that would have the right circumference (we don't need high accuracy for this) and the right thickness (between 0.006 and 0.004 inch = between 0.15 and 0.10 mm).

As long as the material is durable and not too hard (it must absorb the shocks), it will work.

I'm pretty sure there is an industrial source for exactly this kind of rings somewhere on earth.

If we go even further, anything that is soft, that could be inserted between the sliders and the housings, that is thin enough (not more than 0.006 inch), and that will stay in place for years without degrading, will do the work.

So it does not even have to be a ring...

[Hypersphere]

@spiceBar:

There is a company (Rogers) that produces thin foam (0.15 mm) for use in electronics products for shock absorption:

https://www.rogerscorp.com/documents/2256/hpf/poron/industrial/PORON-ShockPad-Foam-Data-Sheet.pdf

According to their website, they will send you free samples.

In addition, 3M makes thin foam tapes for electronics applications. It has pressure-sensitive adhesive, but if this was not wanted, perhaps they have non-adhesive varieties:

http://www.3mconvertersolutions.com/service-program/6-Foam-Tapes/3M-VHB-Tapes

It would be ideal if we could find a company that not only produced thin foam, but that could do the cutting as well (e.g., a ring or square with the correct inner and outer dimensions). There is another company whose website indicates that they can do this. I think they will even do a prototype if you send them a CAD file:

http://www.stockwell.com/contact.php

[Heliosphere]

I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005584T7C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Going to try to cut out squares and punch 1/4" holes in them, see if it works out.

[spiceBar]

@spiceBar:

There is a company (Rogers) that produces thin foam (0.15 mm) for use in electronics products for shock absorption:

https://www.rogerscorp.com/documents/2256/hpf/poron/industrial/PORON-ShockPad-Foam-Data-Sheet.pdf

According to their website, they will send you free samples.

In addition, 3M makes thin foam tapes for electronics applications. It has pressure-sensitive adhesive, but if this was not wanted, perhaps they have non-adhesive varieties:

http://www.3mconvertersolutions.com/service-program/6-Foam-Tapes/3M-VHB-Tapes

It would be ideal if we could find a company that not only produced thin foam, but that could do the cutting as well (e.g., a ring or square with the correct inner and outer dimensions). There is another company whose website indicates that they can do this. I think they will even do a prototype if you send them a CAD file:

http://www.stockwell.com/contact.php

Thank you for the info.

I don't have enough time to do more research on this myself, but maybe someone else will.

[HalfSharkAlligator]

I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005584T7C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Going to try to cut out squares and punch 1/4" holes in them, see if it works out.

Were you able to try this yet?

Also, to anyone - just curious if there are any other gains to be made by putting sound dampening material inside the case itself?  Let me know if you have tried something like this and seen any improvement.  Thanks

[spiceBar]

I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005584T7C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Going to try to cut out squares and punch 1/4" holes in them, see if it works out.

Were you able to try this yet?

Also, to anyone - just curious if there are any other gains to be made by putting sound dampening material inside the case itself?  Let me know if you have tried something like this and seen any improvement.  Thanks

Yes, absolutely. I did not document it, but I did put sound dampening material in my FC660C, and actually in almost all of my keyboards.

I use the kind of rubber foam that is widely used as bathtub mat, and it looks like this:
  http://sell.lulusoso.com/upload/20120314/Rubber_bath_mat_carpet.jpg

This kind of mat is also used in the kitchen.

It definitely improves the sound of the keyboard.

Here is a picture f what it looks like. In this case, it is inside a Novatouch:




The part of the case where you can see the brown adhesive pads was too narrow for the bathtub mat. Using these pads here was better than leaving the case empty.

I also had to avoid some areas: for example I had to left empty space for the outgoing USB cable.

For best results, the rubber foam must press both against the PCB and against the case. It's not easy to achieve, because if you put just a little bit too much you can't reassemble the keyboard anymore. You have to proceed by trial and error until the case is filled.

[Heliosphere]

I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005584T7C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Going to try to cut out squares and punch 1/4" holes in them, see if it works out.

Were you able to try this yet?

Also, to anyone - just curious if there are any other gains to be made by putting sound dampening material inside the case itself?  Let me know if you have tried something like this and seen any improvement.  Thanks

Yes, I recently modded the keyboard with .010" silicone rubber. Making each pad and installing takes some effort and time, and the overall process is probably about 4-5 hours. The mod seems to work somewhat well, but have not dampened as well as classic flattened pads, probably because I used very thin silicone. I made some of the first pads' circular cutouts too small so the edges are getting stuck between the switch stem and housing, causing the keypresses to require a lot of force. I plan to replace the trouble pads once I get time again. The lesson is to size the landing pads properly. I think the optimal size for the pads are squares with 10mm sides, and 1/4" hole punches (mixing metric and english units I know, but I didn't have metric punches). I probably would recommend using a slightly thicker silicone sheet (.015" or .020") so the pads provide better damping and are not as flimsy as .010" pads. I will update again once I've fixed the issues, maybe with photos. In the far future I may attempt doing the mod with thicker pads.

[HalfSharkAlligator]

I'd like to thank both SpiceBar and Heliosphere for their contributions to the knowledge base 

I'm going to order the pads from EK and try that method, ironing them down to be very thin. I really like my FC660C, and have never tried the HHKB2 Type-S, but think I would prefer the layout on my Leo. It's a solid board and the dedicated arrow keys are nice, plus mostly standard layout otherwise (less re-learning, and I have multiple boards that I bounce between at work and home).

I'll report back in a few weeks and contribute any tips or gotchas that I find.

[spiceBar]

I'd like to thank both SpiceBar and Heliosphere for their contributions to the knowledge base 

I'm going to order the pads from EK and try that method, ironing them down to be very thin. I really like my FC660C, and have never tried the HHKB2 Type-S, but think I would prefer the layout on my Leo. It's a solid board and the dedicated arrow keys are nice, plus mostly standard layout otherwise (less re-learning, and I have multiple boards that I bounce between at work and home).

I'll report back in a few weeks and contribute any tips or gotchas that I find.

Thanks.

Don't forget to iron on a hard surface. Don't use the ironing table, it will not work.

The silenced FC660C is more silent than the HHKB Pro 2 Type-S. I know because I own both. The silenced FC660C feels much more classy... Just my opinion of course...

[atk80]

Just wanted to say that I performed this mod on my HHKB Pro 2 and it worked brilliantly. I love it so much, the pitter patter of rain drops. One suggestion that I've used on both my Novatouch and HHKB was to trim the corners of the landing pads with fingernail clippers in order to make sure they don't bind with the switch housing. It takes a bit longer but it is worth it, I think.

 

[spiceBar]

Just wanted to say that I performed this mod on my HHKB Pro 2 and it worked brilliantly. I love it so much, the pitter patter of rain drops. One suggestion that I've used on both my Novatouch and HHKB was to trim the corners of the landing pads with fingernail clippers in order to make sure they don't bind with the switch housing. It takes a bit longer but it is worth it, I think.

 

Congratulations!

Have you used a clothing iron to flatten the landing pads to death? If so, can you confirm that the tactility of the switches is unchanged?

[atk80]

Just wanted to say that I performed this mod on my HHKB Pro 2 and it worked brilliantly. I love it so much, the pitter patter of rain drops. One suggestion that I've used on both my Novatouch and HHKB was to trim the corners of the landing pads with fingernail clippers in order to make sure they don't bind with the switch housing. It takes a bit longer but it is worth it, I think.

 

Congratulations!

Have you used a clothing iron to flatten the landing pads to death? If so, can you confirm that the tactility of the switches is unchanged?

Yes I ironed them to death, almost paper thin. After each slider I tested that it would freely slide in the housing and if not I retrimmed it.

I do not notice any change in tactility, it still has that pleasant snap initially to the thock on the downstroke, but no plasticky clack on the upstroke.

[spiceBar]

Just wanted to say that I performed this mod on my HHKB Pro 2 and it worked brilliantly. I love it so much, the pitter patter of rain drops. One suggestion that I've used on both my Novatouch and HHKB was to trim the corners of the landing pads with fingernail clippers in order to make sure they don't bind with the switch housing. It takes a bit longer but it is worth it, I think.

 

Congratulations!

Have you used a clothing iron to flatten the landing pads to death? If so, can you confirm that the tactility of the switches is unchanged?

Yes I ironed them to death, almost paper thin. After each slider I tested that it would freely slide in the housing and if not I retrimmed it.

I do not notice any change in tactility, it still has that pleasant snap initially to the thock on the downstroke, but no plasticky clack on the upstroke.

OK, it's the state-of-the-art mod!

[HalfSharkAlligator]

I received my landing pads from EK, and have ironed them.  I'm not sure if I ironed them enough, spiceBar, what do you think?  (original pad on top for comparison and scale)

[spiceBar]

I received my landing pads from EK, and have ironed them.  I'm not sure if I ironed them enough, spiceBar, what do you think?  (original pad on top for comparison and scale)

They are not thin enough.

Use a hard surface to iron them on. The clothing iron should be as hot as possible, at least in the first experiments.

Put the landing pads, 4 by 4, inside a folded piece of paper. It's better if they are already separated.

Press hard with the iron for long enough, which should be around 30 seconds.

If the pads melt and stick too much to the paper, your iron is too hot.

If the pads stick just a little bit and can easily be removed from the paper, that's OK.

Here is the thickness you are aiming for, almost paper-thin:

[HalfSharkAlligator]

Thanks much - that helps. I was afraid you'd say that but I'd rather fix it now than after the board is back together 

When I did it, I left the pads attached in groups of four, I'm going to separate them this time.  Also, I had put them between pages in a magazine, but I think there was too much cushion from the magazine still, this time I'll just fold a single magazine sheet in half and put them in there, on a board.  Don't tell my wife that the board is a shelf I pulled out of a piece of furniture for this use 

It's a tedious process but you get a little bit of a core strengthening workout from pressing down hard nonstop for thirty minutes LOL.  Also Netflix and beer helps.

[spiceBar]

Thanks much - that helps. I was afraid you'd say that but I'd rather fix it now than after the board is back together 

When I did it, I left the pads attached in groups of four, I'm going to separate them this time.  Also, I had put them between pages in a magazine, but I think there was too much cushion from the magazine still, this time I'll just fold a single magazine sheet in half and put them in there, on a board.  Don't tell my wife that the board is a shelf I pulled out of a piece of furniture for this use 

It's a tedious process but you get a little bit of a core strengthening workout from pressing down hard nonstop for thirty minutes LOL.  Also Netflix and beer helps.

I won't tell anyone about the shelf. I have been using one, too!

NOTE: I think a blank sheet of paper is better than a page from a magazine, which may stick to the pads, but you will see this by yourself.

[a_ak57]

I was always disinclined to do the dental band or original landing pad mod since I didn't want feel to be affected, but this new method seems aces.  Out of curiosity though, do you suggest 4x4 for any particular reason?  Wouldn't it be more beneficial to fill out as much of the iron's surface area as possible to reduce how many times you have to do it? 

Either way, gonna be applying to this to my work board after I order some of those pads.

[spiceBar]

I was always disinclined to do the dental band or original landing pad mod since I didn't want feel to be affected, but this new method seems aces.  Out of curiosity though, do you suggest 4x4 for any particular reason?  Wouldn't it be more beneficial to fill out as much of the iron's surface area as possible to reduce how many times you have to do it? 

Either way, gonna be applying to this to my work board after I order some of those pads.

You can't iron too many pads at the same time. You need to press rather hard and make sure you press evenly, or better, to press on all sides, so all the pads are equally flattened.

It's difficult to do this if you have more than 4 pads under the iron.

The best method is to do them one by one, but it takes too long. 4x4 is OK.

[a_ak57]

Well, completed the mod and it turned out great.  Took longer than I expected, and had some trouble with getting the pads thin enough (had to use a harder floor to set the board on), but I can say it was well worth all the effort. 

[spiceBar]

Well, completed the mod and it turned out great.  Took longer than I expected, and had some trouble with getting the pads thin enough (had to use a harder floor to set the board on), but I can say it was well worth all the effort.

Great! I'm glad you like it.

You know, it's only the first board that is a pain. Starting with the second board you mod, it becomes easier and easier.

[Cafeine]

I'm tempted to do this on my Topre boards (I own 2 FC660C, 1 RF 55g and I was planning to buy a HHKB Type-S next month in Japan but now, I'm thinking a "normal" one would be even better...) and I wanted to know if someone used another material than the one sold by EK, that I can buy in Europe. I have nothing against EK, it's just so I can get something faster. If not, I'll delay my plans and order while I'm in Japan so my package don't get lost in our horrible postal service limboooo...   Thanks for the awesome tips / tutorial btw ! I actually like my "unsilenced" boards but I like choice.

[spiceBar]

I'm tempted to do this on my Topre boards (I own 2 FC660C, 1 RF 55g and I was planning to buy a HHKB Type-S next month in Japan but now, I'm thinking a "normal" one would be even better...) and I wanted to know if someone used another material than the one sold by EK, that I can buy in Europe. I have nothing against EK, it's just so I can get something faster. If not, I'll delay my plans and order while I'm in Japan so my package don't get lost in our horrible postal service limboooo...   Thanks for the awesome tips / tutorial btw ! I actually like my "unsilenced" boards but I like choice.

I have never heard of someone having used the ironed landing pads mod with pads that did not come from EK.

Some people have used other materials, a silicone sheet for example, but they could not flatten them with a clothing iron, resulting in a loss of key travel and a significant loss of tactility.

You really need to find a very thin dampening material, or one that you can make very thin. It also has to be stable in time.

The landing pads from EK have all these properties, and they have been tested time and again. At this point it's the safe choice.

[Cafeine]

I'm tempted to do this on my Topre boards (I own 2 FC660C, 1 RF 55g and I was planning to buy a HHKB Type-S next month in Japan but now, I'm thinking a "normal" one would be even better...) and I wanted to know if someone used another material than the one sold by EK, that I can buy in Europe. I have nothing against EK, it's just so I can get something faster. If not, I'll delay my plans and order while I'm in Japan so my package don't get lost in our horrible postal service limboooo...   Thanks for the awesome tips / tutorial btw ! I actually like my "unsilenced" boards but I like choice.

I have never heard of someone having used the ironed landing pads mod with pads that did not come from EK.

Some people have used other materials, a silicone sheet for example, but they could not flatten them with a clothing iron, resulting in a loss of key travel and a significant loss of tactility.

You really need to find a very thin dampening material, or one that you can make very thin. It also has to be stable in time.

The landing pads from EK have all these properties, and they have been tested time and again. At this point it's the safe choice.

Yep, I'll use that then, and buy some lube while at it. It's just that I'll have to wait to be back from Japan so I'm sure that I can take care of the package. Thanks!

[spiceBar]

I'm tempted to do this on my Topre boards (I own 2 FC660C, 1 RF 55g and I was planning to buy a HHKB Type-S next month in Japan but now, I'm thinking a "normal" one would be even better...) and I wanted to know if someone used another material than the one sold by EK, that I can buy in Europe. I have nothing against EK, it's just so I can get something faster. If not, I'll delay my plans and order while I'm in Japan so my package don't get lost in our horrible postal service limboooo...   Thanks for the awesome tips / tutorial btw ! I actually like my "unsilenced" boards but I like choice.

I have never heard of someone having used the ironed landing pads mod with pads that did not come from EK.

Some people have used other materials, a silicone sheet for example, but they could not flatten them with a clothing iron, resulting in a loss of key travel and a significant loss of tactility.

You really need to find a very thin dampening material, or one that you can make very thin. It also has to be stable in time.

The landing pads from EK have all these properties, and they have been tested time and again. At this point it's the safe choice.

Yep, I'll use that then, and buy some lube while at it. It's just that I'll have to wait to be back from Japan so I'm sure that I can take care of the package. Thanks!

Yes, buy the blue and maybe also the red lube. The blue one is thick and works well for the stabilizers. The red one is less useful in Topre keyboards, and actually I have only used it in Cherry MX keyboards. It's too thin for the stabilizers, and too thick for the sliders. However it's cheap, and it could be useful some day... Who knows.

[Cafeine]

Yes, buy the blue and maybe also the red lube. The blue one is thick and works well for the stabilizers. The red one is less useful in Topre keyboards, and actually I have only used it in Cherry MX keyboards. It's too thin for the stabilizers, and too thick for the sliders. However it's cheap, and it could be useful some day... Who knows.

Yeah, when I order that far, I tend to go overboard anyway. Thx for the tips.

[HalfSharkAlligator]

I successfully completed this mod today.  It was extremely time consuming but WELL WORTH IT.  The board sounds SO much nicer now.  It still has the wonderful thock, but no plasticky click on the upstroke of each key.  It makes the board feel much more high-end.  And, it won't bother my coworkers on conference calls now (or my wife). 

Seriously, I could not be happier with the results.  THANKS SPICEBAR for putting this together. 

[Gaspar]

How much time did it take? How was the dis- and reassembling, are the modifiers keys hard to deal with? Did you lubed it as well?

[HalfSharkAlligator]

How much time did it take? How was the dis- and reassembling, are the modifiers keys hard to deal with? Did you lubed it as well?

Several hours. People often try to brag about how quickly they finish projects online, so I'm sure there will be those who mock this, but I'll try to come up with an honest estimate. I worked fairly slowly and meticulously to do quality work. I only lubed the stabilizer bars, not the pistons on each key.

ironing landing pads - 1.5 hours
disassembling board - 1 hour
lubing stabs - 15 mins
applying landing pads - 2-3 hours
reassembling board - 1 hour

All in, it was probably about 6-7 hours of work, which I did over the course of a few weeks.  I'm sure if you are less meticulous and careful you could do it in about 4 hours total.  Ironing the landing pads takes a long time to do in groups of four, and you have to get them really flat to avoid decreased travel.  Also, I was careful to make sure the pads were all the way down the piston and were not going to "flip up" in any way, and i even clipped the edges off around it as i found that it made them less likely to "flip up" the opposite curvature.

Disassembling is not difficult but you need to take your time so you don't break or damage the plastic clips in doing so. I recommend sliding plastic credit card or membership cards in between the clips and the plate as you work your way around the board. Modifier keys are not difficult to deal with at all.  I did not remove the modifier key / stab housings like Spicebar did, I only removed the stabilizer bar and the piston. 

[Gaspar]

Thanks for all the infos. I'm considering doing it for my Leopold. I love the character keys, they sound and feel very good, but the modifier keys are pretty clicky, particularly the backspace key.

[Cafeine]

Yep, thx for the information. I have to do it on ALL my boards now. The Type-S spoiled me. :x

[Cafeine]

OK, so I DID IT, I modded my Leopold FC660C 2014. Lubbed the stabs, modded all the keys. I thought some remarks from a noob could help. A lot of obvious stuff but when you're a noob...

I ironed the landing pads to death (it took HOURS - well, a bit more than 2), ironed 160 because I plan to do my RF 87U too. Pro tips: a wood cutting board is nice to do this UNLESS they are in 3 glued parts. At the end you will have 3 small cutting boards when you'll wash them... :x )(been there, done that).

You WANT to iron those landing pads because the travel of the key is REALLY killed by the normal sized pads. No they can't really be "too thin". And I didn't burn one even at max temp.

Opening the case is not that hard (1st screw is under the small OK sticker, not the BIG middle sticker...)

The work is TEDIOUS but worth it, really. I think I messed up only 2 keys and the spacebar. 2 keys produces some "sticky" sound, dunno why yet. The space bar is totally silenced (lub ftw... ) but the travel is too short, maybe because of the landing pads I used on the stabs (the switch use the same ironed landing pad). I'll check that later, right now I have some work and doing it on this beast anyway.

Don't check out the sound of the switchs on the plate only. The sound is totally different and much better when you'll put back the PCB & plate together. They need to be sandwiched by all those screws. Don't panic if one modded switch is a bit lazy and don't want to go down by itself easily. I had 3/4 like that and it's not a problem. A REAL trouble would be a switch staying down, but I don't even know if that can happen with this mod.

TL;DR : this mod takes HOURS, totally worth it and if you're lazy you can only do it on mods I guess. On my FC660C 2014 they were horribly noisy and now it's a dream, HHKB-Type-S-Like-only-better. I used stab wire lub too btw, it helps a lot, especially on the spacebar.

Thanks again SpicyBar for the idea / research and post!!!

[Latin00032]

OK, so I DID IT, I modded my Leopold FC660C 2014. Lubbed the stabs, modded all the keys. I thought some remarks from a noob could help. A lot of obvious stuff but when you're a noob...

I ironed the landing pads to death (it took HOURS - well, a bit more than 2), ironed 160 because I plan to do my RF 87U too. Pro tips: a wood cutting board is nice to do this UNLESS they are in 3 glued parts. At the end you will have 3 small cutting boards when you'll wash them... :x )(been there, done that).

You WANT to iron those landing pads because the travel of the key is REALLY killed by the normal sized pads. No they can't really be "too thin". And I didn't burn one even at max temp.

Opening the case is not that hard (1st screw is under the small OK sticker, not the BIG middle sticker...)

The work is TEDIOUS but worth it, really. I think I messed up only 2 keys and the spacebar. 2 keys produces some "sticky" sound, dunno why yet. The space bar is totally silenced (lub ftw... ) but the travel is too short, maybe because of the landing pads I used on the stabs (the switch use the same ironed landing pad). I'll check that later, right now I have some work and doing it on this beast anyway.

Don't check out the sound of the switchs on the plate only. The sound is totally different and much better when you'll put back the PCB & plate together. They need to be sandwiched by all those screws. Don't panic if one modded switch is a bit lazy and don't want to go down by itself easily. I had 3/4 like that and it's not a problem. A REAL trouble would be a switch staying down, but I don't even know if that can happen with this mod.

TL;DR : this mod takes HOURS, totally worth it and if you're lazy you can only do it on mods I guess. On my FC660C 2014 they were horribly noisy and now it's a dream, HHKB-Type-S-Like-only-better. I used stab wire lub too btw, it helps a lot, especially on the spacebar.

Thanks again SpicyBar for the idea / research and post!!!

Any pics of the process?

I'd like to see how flat you made the pads.

[Cafeine]

I only took useless artsy (ahem) pics for my instagram because I don't really have much more to show but I can do one tomorrow with the pads so you can see the difference between mine and the stock ones. I'll try to do more pics for the 87U. I may mod my "old" FC660C too but I kinda like how this one sound at the moment. Dirt does wonders I guess.

[TastaturenAuslese]

Waiting for my landing pads from EK which should arrive in the next few days

Quick question: Does the ironing result in permanent flattening of the landing pads? i.e. if I leave them out while I prep to put them on the sliders, will they slowly get thicker again? Or in other words, do I need to rush to put them on the sliders asap so they don't have the chance to grow back to their original size? I'm assuming that the heat from the iron permanently melts the inside of the landing pad and makes the flattening permanent.

[colomb]

Has anyone tried punching holes in the landing pads to more closely match the circumference of the sliders? I realize it doesn't affect the travel, but there is something about the pads riding up the slider that irks me.

[Cafeine]

Waiting for my landing pads from EK which should arrive in the next few days

Quick question: Does the ironing result in permanent flattening of the landing pads? i.e. if I leave them out while I prep to put them on the sliders, will they slowly get thicker again? Or in other words, do I need to rush to put them on the sliders asap so they don't have the chance to grow back to their original size? I'm assuming that the heat from the iron permanently melts the inside of the landing pad and makes the flattening permanent.

They are melted, they will not change

[TastaturenAuslese]

So I got the landing pads in the mail today, and as of this writing, I am typing on a fully silenced HHKB Pro 2

Here's some things I learnt:
1. As derb2k2 warned me, be careful of the lube on the sliders. You may accidentally rub them off depending on the way you're handling the sliders.
2. One of the better ways to iron the landing pads flat is to put it against a chopping board on the floor (or alternatively use a hardwood floor - note: this might ruin your floor) and kind of sit/squat next to it and lean your body against your arm as if you were "chillin'". This was the easiest way I found to put as much weight as I could on the iron with as little effort as possible.
3. Try not to use any varnished wood. I learnt this the hard way and I know have a console table that has burn indents in the shape of landing pads.

It took quite a while and it was quite tedious, but the outcome is definitely worth it. One thing I noticed though is that, even with the landing pads ironed paper thin, I still lost a bit of tactility in the keys. This might just be my mind playing games, but regardless the tactility loss is negligible. It still feels great and it sounds great. No more clack, and all thack, and this far outweights the loss of tactility, if any.

Another theory I have for the loss of tactility could be the "fold" the comes from the landing pad hole being to small to stretch over the stem. The rim of the hole folds upward on the stem, and this may be catching on the case.

[TastaturenAuslese]

Also: Quick 10fastfingers result after the mod I don't know if it's just the excitement of all this thock, but I feel like without the clack, I'm less distracted doing the test.

[Cafeine]

So I got the landing pads in the mail today, and as of this writing, I am typing on a fully silenced HHKB Pro 2

Here's some things I learnt:
1. As derb2k2 warned me, be careful of the lube on the sliders. You may accidentally rub them off depending on the way you're handling the sliders.
2. One of the better ways to iron the landing pads flat is to put it against a chopping board on the floor (or alternatively use a hardwood floor - note: this might ruin your floor) and kind of sit/squat next to it and lean your body against your arm as if you were "chillin'". This was the easiest way I found to put as much weight as I could on the iron with as little effort as possible.
3. Try not to use any varnished wood. I learnt this the hard way and I know have a console table that has burn indents in the shape of landing pads.

It took quite a while and it was quite tedious, but the outcome is definitely worth it. One thing I noticed though is that, even with the landing pads ironed paper thin, I still lost a bit of tactility in the keys. This might just be my mind playing games, but regardless the tactility loss is negligible. It still feels great and it sounds great. No more clack, and all thack, and this far outweights the loss of tactility, if any.

Another theory I have for the loss of tactility could be the "fold" the comes from the landing pad hole being to small to stretch over the stem. The rim of the hole folds upward on the stem, and this may be catching on the case.

Agreed with everything. Btw I did **** up with the lub on one of my FC660C : what should I use to correct the situation? I have both lubs from EK but that's all. Any tips? :x

[Air tree]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

[SpAmRaY]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

Spicebar seemed to indicate that wasn't necessary.

[TastaturenAuslese]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

Spicebar seemed to indicate that wasn't necessary.

I can attest to that. I did it for some just to see if it would make a difference, and it's not noticeable at all.

[HalfSharkAlligator]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

I used fingernail clippers to cut the corners off which probably wasn't necessary but seemed worth preventing any rubbing. If I had an easy way of making the holes slightly larger I would have as that would prevent them from flipping up since the holes are a bit tight, but I just make sure that they are flat and flush down around the bottom and so far none have flipped up and caused any sticking and I've been using it for about four months now.

[Cafeine]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

I used fingernail clippers to cut the corners off which probably wasn't necessary but seemed worth preventing any rubbing. If I had an easy way of making the holes slightly larger I would have as that would prevent them from flipping up since the holes are a bit tight, but I just make sure that they are flat and flush down around the bottom and so far none have flipped up and caused any sticking and I've been using it for about four months now.

Yeah I did that too (the clipping), it's indeed pretty overkill, but you NEVER KNOW    I find the feeling a bit stiff now though, probably because of the lub i removed. :x  Or maybe I'm just spoiled by my HHKB Type-S :x

[awhitedev]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

I used fingernail clippers to cut the corners off which probably wasn't necessary but seemed worth preventing any rubbing. If I had an easy way of making the holes slightly larger I would have as that would prevent them from flipping up since the holes are a bit tight, but I just make sure that they are flat and flush down around the bottom and so far none have flipped up and caused any sticking and I've been using it for about four months now.

Yeah I did that too (the clipping), it's indeed pretty overkill, but you NEVER KNOW    I find the feeling a bit stiff now though, probably because of the lub i removed. :x  Or maybe I'm just spoiled by my HHKB Type-S :x

Just finished modding my Novatouch with ironed landing pads.... I found that the pads, once ironed, were not all exactly the same shape. Some of them melted more than others and were actually longer by a fraction of a mm. This caused them to rub in the housing ever so slightly. As a test... I pushed the slider into the housing and turned the plate back and forth... if the slider didn't freely move in the housing without me touching it then I knew I had an issue where it was rubbing. I did the same as you guys... I trimmed up the corners... I found that the issue was more on the sides with the feet where the rubber would hang over by just a little. Trimming up those corners prevented this issue and freed up the slider so it could move freely.

[Tyrosh22]

After dental band modding my Novatouch I began to notice some kind of rattling/chattering. Seemingly it came from the springs. I tried the foam pad mod (ironing the pads) but still the springs are audible.
I tried to record it: https://soundcloud.com/mecha-blog/topre-spring
Any idea how to solve this? Apart from that the mod is awesome. It hugely improves the sound of my NovaTouch - a board which desperately needs silencing!

[samsam]

Hi guys ,

First of thanks for the awesome mod instructions i have looked at it several times now.. (over the years hahahh)
At the moment i have the Leopold FC660M and the Kul ES-87 , i hope to exchange the KUL inside warranty and when i get the new one sell that and get a Leopold FC660C topre..
I love the sound of the silenced topre's but don't care for the layout of the HHKB2 or the big size of the Realforce. So that's why i decided to save up for my second Leopold ..

I just wanted to ask people here what they think about this idea i got from a sound specialist someone that build speakers for a living..
Also thought this could perhaps help some of us keyboard lovers 

The only problem i can foresee is the cutting of the material, it would be nice if i could simply stencil  little circles or something like that..
But i still have sum time to think about it..
Even if one would apply several layers of this material it would still be thiner than landing pads adding to the silence.
Also my KUL ES-87 has a similar product but thicker on the metal plate under the schift key..
Here is the link to a review with pics that show the material on the metal plate.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59116.0


i'm thinking of a way to apply this material called STP GOLD..
http://stp-distribution.com/en/products/premium/gold-aero

[Zoide]

Have you guys tried Hypersphere's silencing rings?

They cost quite a bit more than the ironed pads, but they are also way thinner and people say they provide the best silencing for Topre keyboards. They also come ready to install, no cutting or ironing required.

[Hyde]

Have you guys tried Hypersphere's silencing rings?

They cost quite a bit more than the ironed pads, but they are also way thinner and people say they provide the best silencing for Topre keyboards. They also come ready to install, no cutting or ironing required.

I've modded my Realforce with Hypersphere rings so I can share some thoughts, though I haven't tried ironing landing pads so I can't do direct comparison.

Hypersphere rings are pretty good, and like you said doesn't need any preparation and pretty much ready to go when you got it.

HOWEVER it still reduce travel by a tiny bit, maybe 0.5 mm.  You'll still feel it though luckily it doesn't effect the tactile point.

But overall I'd say I wish the reduction travel is less, but I'm still glad I modded my Realforce.  Like the OP said the silencing just make it feel more "higher quality". 

So definitely yes on silencing, as for which method is better.  Might still need more testing and comparison to find out.  Though I have a feeling that stock silencing might still be best.

[spiceBar]

Have you guys tried Hypersphere's silencing rings?

They cost quite a bit more than the ironed pads, but they are also way thinner and people say they provide the best silencing for Topre keyboards. They also come ready to install, no cutting or ironing required.

I've modded my Realforce with Hypersphere rings so I can share some thoughts, though I haven't tried ironing landing pads so I can't do direct comparison.

Hypersphere rings are pretty good, and like you said doesn't need any preparation and pretty much ready to go when you got it.

HOWEVER it still reduce travel by a tiny bit, maybe 0.5 mm.  You'll still feel it though luckily it doesn't effect the tactile point.

But overall I'd say I wish the reduction travel is less, but I'm still glad I modded my Realforce.  Like the OP said the silencing just make it feel more "higher quality". 

So definitely yes on silencing, as for which method is better.  Might still need more testing and comparison to find out.  Though I have a feeling that stock silencing might still be best.

A reduction of 0.5mm in travel is too much. When using non-ironed landing pads, the reduction in travel was more like 1mm, and the result was so bad I had to re-do everything.

It's actually the reason why I came up with the technique ironing the landing pads. It was a desperate attempt to fix the mess. I did not think it would work, but I had nothing to lose.

A first attempt was to make them thinner and I ended up somewhat below 0.5mm. It was still not good.

If you iron the landing pads correctly, that is as much as possible, they will be 0.1 to 0.2mm thick. Like a sheet of paper. There will be no reduction of travel, because the Topre switches have a little bit of play to begin with, and there will be no change in tactility.