MAC vs PC - which one to buy

[elmomax]

All,
I know this is a question of considerable passion on both sides. My clunky gateway desktop is nearing the end of the road and I need to buy a new computer before this clunker fries. I do not want to spend an eternity on the decision, but want to be informed since I will be living with my choice for awhile.

I have never used a Mac but have heard the rave reviews. I largely use my home computer for work - intense use of word, powerpoint, excel and such and I need to be compatible with work PC in file editing etc. I also do not want to spend a fortune on a computer as I am not a hard core geek type, but I am pained by windows freezing and such and I really do not want to go to Vista given all I have heard - I now use XP.

In advance, no techno speak  please - I am a non geek chick who loves mechanical keyboards, but I do not want to be asking follow up questions that will embarrass myself. I work in wireless so I am not a doofus, but I am also not in love with technology for technology sake. When I was scored on our segmentation I came out a Solution Seeker, which is spot on.

I tend to hold on to my computer for awhile as it is largely used for work, ebay and web surfing for amusement and knowledge, though I have moved up the techno chain overtime.

Any advice would be appreciated. The other consideration is that through work I believe I can get discount on HP and Dell - though given my experience with my dell laptop at work, I do not want that experience at home - gone through 2 motherboards in less than a year.

Thanks for any help or guidance you can provide. I need to get moving on this. My PC shut down with awful screen of death and I had a hard time getting it to power back on -- the end may be near and time is short.
E

[elmomax]

BTW -- also leaning toward a laptop rather than desktop. Tired of the paperweight under my desk and think it would be nice to wifi it and cuddle up with ebay and my sweetie and watch old flicks.  But would want some thoughts on laptop vs desktop as well. I have laptop for work so I can drag that around with me using bbaccess card, but they have disabled wifi on our work laptops and sometimes OTA BB is slow for large files.  Also cannot count on being at the same job with BBA work laptop for eternity.

[iMav]

Going with a Mac is a no-brainer if you are willing to spend the money.  If you end up absolutely hating OS X (doubtful), a Mac will happy run windows.  

The Macbooks are incredibly popular.  I suggest heading down to a Best Buy, Apple Store, etc and seeing it for yourself.  It's a 13.3" screen, so that would be the biggest potential issue (I've used that display as my main machine before and didn't have any issues...especially with "Spaces").  

I was in town looking at iMac's today and found it very hard not to leave with one.  They are beautiful machines.  But, at the same time, there was a Dell desktop with 6GB of ram, 640GB hdd, and a 2.4Ghz Core2Quad (quad-core) computer for under $700.  (which is tempting for me since I am a virtualization nut and am more than happy running either linux or OS X).

My vote is Mac (if the alternative is a PC running windows).

[elmomax]

Another dumb question... if i stick with the Mac OS and create docs, will i be able to edit view them on my work PC which uses XP?  To be able to edit on both machinse, will I need to use Windows on the MAC.  If I run windows on Mac will it be superior to running on a PC. Trying to figure out if the increased cost is worth it if I cannot use the MAC OS. Screen size for work docs would not be an issue since I can use my 17"  monitor when I need to.
Sorry for low level non geek questions. Gotta ask them!

e

[graywolf]

MS Office is, I think, available for OSX. If not you can run in in Windows on the Mac. However, I am not a Mac fan. Although I did lust after a Powerbook 12 for awhile.

For your listed use you could get by very well with a laptop. I, myself, would buy a used Thinkpad or other business class laptop before I bought a new consumer one. In fact I do have a couple of older Thinkpads, one is still quite usable. However you have to understand that my desktop is a fairly powerful workstation and I know of no laptop, at least any that mere mortals can afford, that would replace it.

While I prefer almost any form of Unix (OSX is BSD under the hood) to Windows, I found that I had to interoperate with business users and so was kind of stuck with Windows XP. You should think long and hard about that, before you make your decision.

The final thing I have to say is take the advice to go play with some of the units you may think of buying, you will have to live with whatever you chose, so it behoves you to get something that you do not hate.

[iMav]

Another dumb question... if i stick with the Mac OS and create docs, will i be able to edit view them on my work PC which uses XP?  To be able to edit on both machinse, will I need to use Windows on the MAC.  If I run windows on Mac will it be superior to running on a PC. Trying to figure out if the increased cost is worth it if I cannot use the MAC OS. Screen size for work docs would not be an issue since I can use my 17"  monitor when I need to.

Pick up a copy of MS Office for Mac and you will be good to go.  (you could also, likely, get by with NeoOffice...but for absolute, guaranteed document compatiblity, I'd get MS Office).

Are there any other applications you run (aside from an office suite) on windows that you forsee needing?

[Eclairz]

I own a macbook, and use windows xp and windows vista. These are the pros and cons relating to your use :

Apple macbook
Pros
- Quite indestructable if all your gonna do is type in word and use excel, although I still get system hangs i think its due to all my various programs
- looks cooler
- decent keyboard
- it works 95% of the time
- lots of freely available programs with good open source community
- much more integrated searching facility without resorting to google search easier to fin your own files
- you can install xp and vista on this machine as well but you'll need a proper retail disc

Cons
- latest version of office 2008 on the mac is said to be worse no idea why but i've seen lots of bad comments about it on apple's own website
- compatibility problems accessing NTSC formatted hard drives so any external hard drives you use better be formatted in FAT 32 else you'll have problems
- limited amount of games(but this is a work pc right?)
- learning an operating system from scratch
- finder is worse for locating files than explorer, but creating short cuts is a cool feature
-getting used to apple keyboard layout (im british so it is significantly different)

Vista
Pros
- it really isn't as bad as they say it is, especially if all your doing is documents and excel
- looks better than xp (but worse than os x)
- will last longer than xp? (who knows)
- UAC management reduces amount of programs messing up your kernal and notifying you that a program might be doing something naughty (already in apple os x but most apple programs are developed to leave system files alone) but can become irritating clicking ok all the time makes you think why all programmer who develop for windows are actually doing with your data
- costs less than xp pro

Cons
- even if it isn't bad you already decided in your head that vista sucks
- uses up ever more precious resources(but your using this for work and your getting a new system right?)
- if you don't care about alot of the functions you will have to slowly find out and disable all the features you dont need (kind of goes with other two operating systems, but most new mac people don't know stuff can be disabled and usually aren't technical enough.)


XP
Pros
- you know how to use it and so your comfortable with it
- programs can be moved over with little drama and no need to update
- no need to buy new software to support newer os
- no learning curve
- quite reliable and just seems to work
- lots of games work on it

Cons
- costs more than vista
- if you buy off the shelf you'll have to install xp yourself
- will eventually lose support and then all the viruses will have a field day
- looks crapper than os x and vista
- no integrated searching facility (so installing third party is required)

[graywolf]

- no integrated searching facility (so installing third party is required)

??

XP has a search function, it even has a little animated dog to annoy you.

[lexicon]

You might consider buying a Windows machine for maximum compatibility with whatever work throws you, and then install Linux in a dual-boot arrangement.  If your personal use consists of basic web reading and email, you'll be surprised at how much simpler that can be in Linux.

[xsphat]

You should get a MacBook. (They are going to be brushed aluminum and WAY more powerful after Sept. 9 ... but I can't devulge my source) So wait another week and a half and pick one up — I am. I've had a MacBook for two years and I'm buying a new computer this term, and I've looked at everything and I'm going to buy another MacBook. That should tell you a lot about the product and how it has served me.

Plus, I have Office '08 Mac and though I don't use it everyday anymore, I will during the college year and I have never had a problem with the files I create on my Mac when I open, edit and print them on the XP computers at school.

[aon]

- will eventually lose support and then all the viruses will have a field day

By 2014 you've probably switched machines already for other reasons.

[iMav]

(They are going to be brushed aluminum and WAY more powerful after Sept. 9 ... but I can't devulge my source

Don't believe everything you read on MacRumors.

[xsphat]

I don't read Mac Rumors, but I do listen to my friend who works at Apple.

[Eclairz]

xp search facility is very slow you need to get microsoft's new search add on or the google search to get search as streamlined and quick as vista/os x. I thoroughly recommend all three oses though, depending on need. If you do not have any data on external hard drives formatted with NTFS then going to os x from a work perspective is a good idea.

Talking about macs i heard they will be improving the mac mini again which if you use your existing monitor may work out cheaper than a laptop and still be kinda portable, and still beable to run xp incase you still cant find a good reason to run os x.

XP and Vista mainly have gaming as a reason to buy, and existing compatibility with existing apps and that most enterprise software seems to only work on windows. But if you just use standard files like .doc and .xls then moving to os x should be a synch

[bhtooefr]

I prefer ThinkPad hardware, and OS X.

Of course, getting the two to play nice isn't easy, which is why my main computer is an old iBook G4.

Anyway, worst case, Windows will run on a MacBook as well as it runs on a regular PC. The MacBook uses essentially PC hardware.

I've also heard lots of bad things about Office 2008, I run 2004 on this iBook (due to the bloat of 2008, I've heard it's much slower on PPC - and even using Rosetta to run 2004 in emulation, it can keep up with 2008 on Intel, from what I've heard.)

I will note that Office for Mac includes only Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Entourage (similar to Outlook,) so if you need Access or Publisher, you'll have to boot into Windows.

[graywolf]

I have noticed that this list is mostly Mac Mavins. I think that is because the only thing they can change on those Mac's is the keyboard (tongue in cheek).

[ashort]

I have noticed that this list is mostly Mac Mavins. I think that is because the only thing they can change on those Mac's is the keyboard (tongue in cheek).

Or put another way:  The one thing on a Mac that SHOULD be replaced.  =-D

[D-EJ915]

Or put another way:  The one thing on a Mac that SHOULD be replaced.  =-D

touchpad, why they refuse to add a 2nd button is beyond me aside from them sticking to their original 1-button thing as sort of one final thing they have which is still true with their original ideals

If you're not going to use Mac OS X then by all means do not buy a macbook for that one reason alone, belive me it pisses me off every time I touch tone of the god forsaken things.  Granted I use unices 80% of the time I use computers so I have my 3 buttons by default but even then...sheesh

that always was one of the nice things about the Sony Picturebooks is they had 3 distinct mouse buttons.

Aside from my ranting and raving about the idiocy of a single button and that two-finger tap stupidity I also dislike using Mac OS X because I find it fails worse than DOS when managing windows.  They get lost and seems like it takes forever to find them again which just makes me so angry.  Windows isn't much better, but at least all the damn windows are on the taskbar.  Also, why the hell are all the buttons on the top left of the window when the scroll bar is on the right!  The reason the buttons on the right work so well is most people are right-handed and keep their mouse hovering over there for that reason in addition to the scroll bar being there so having them on the opposite side is once again a stupid decision (although I can almost guarantee this is to keep microshaft from coming after them).  Mac OS's old window buttons were much better.

*sigh* well...yeah.  I like unix and unix-like OSes because I can use window managers that don't fail completely at everything...and yeah that really doesn't help at all but meh those are my 2¢

[bhtooefr]

ThinkPads also have three mouse buttons for the TrackPoint - while the middle button defaults to functioning as the "Internet Scroll Bar" (basically, hold it down, and the TrackPoint scrolls instead of moving the pointer) under Windows, it's a true middle button (and works as such under other OSes,) and the scroll bar functionality can be disabled.

[ashort]

I always use an external pointing device, whether it is a trackball or a BT mouse or whatever.  I doubt I would use the touchpad of an MBP or a MB much if I had one.  I also do very little "laptop computing", it is almost always on a table or desk.

[xsphat]

I bought Office '08 but have skipped the last couple updates because for me, it works fine and I know how MS tends to make things worse for a while about a year into the life of the product. Sure it's bloated and kind of slow even on 2 GB of RAM, but if that's what her employer requires, she's gotta use it. And it's not like it's terrible either — it loads slow and kind of saves slow, but other than that it's fine.

[xsphat]

But I don't use it to write anymore ... so that that into what I just said.

[graywolf]

I bought Office '08 but have skipped the last couple updates because for me, it works fine and I know how MS tends to make things worse for a while about a year into the life of the product. Sure it's bloated and kind of slow even on 2 GB of RAM, but if that's what her employer requires, she's gotta use it. And it's not like it's terrible either — it loads slow and kind of saves slow, but other than that it's fine.

I have 2003, and most likely will get 2013. I always skip generations. Actually I liked 4.3 best, but no one else in the world is still using it. BTW, I am still using Bookshelf Basics from that version. No, it will not load in XP, but I found that if I just copied the two directories (AAMSSTP & BOOKS) to the root of the C: drive they work fine, although not intregrated into Office.

[iMav]

touchpad, why they refuse to add a 2nd button is beyond me

Actually, the second button is just as useful under OS X as it is under other OS's.  When I am forced to use the trackpad under OS X, I simply tap on the pad for left click and use the button for right click (or now, you can do two-finger tap for right click).  Works pretty slick as far as touchpads go.

I have noticed that this list is mostly Mac Mavins. I think that is because the only thing they can change on those Mac's is the keyboard (tongue in cheek).

I'm more of a UNIX guy than a Mac guy.  I had absolutely no interest in the Mac OS prior to OS X.  Now, it's a great UI over a sane OS.  Easy enough for a complete novice with all the command line goodness to satisfy the geeks as well.  Add tons of third party commercial software support and sexy design and what's not to like?

[bhtooefr]

And, see, I found that my iBook's touchpad was way too sensitive to tapping. So, I Ctrl-click to get a right click when using the touchpad.

[change81]

I also dislike using Mac OS X because I find it fails worse than DOS when managing windows.  They get lost and seems like it takes forever to find them again which just makes me so angry.  Windows isn't much better, but at least all the damn windows are on the taskbar.

expose. end of story. if you're not using it. you fail.
you can set it to show just desktop, all open application screens, or screens open in a specific application.

also look at quicksilver for search/opening apps/absolutely everything.
greatest program ever.

also adiumx is full of win. (im program that includes all protocols)

macbookpros are really nice, but they have serious overheating issues. i can see the new macbook aluminum casing having similar issues, as well as issues with wifi reception. (aluminum is not the best for that)

also, apple rev a's tend to be fairly buggy, so purchase the new macbook at your own risk. if you browse any apple forum, you'll find numerous complaints about issues on rev a's. almost every mb/mbp/g4 pb rev a's had issues, some severe, others patch fixable. apple is good about taking care of said issues, but yeah, they are present with every new release.

i'm still on office 2004. while there are some issues converting ppt metafiles, it gets it done. you can also choose which version you want to save it to (mac/pc/older versions/etc). i've heard 2k8 is buggy so i've been avoiding upgrading, will prob get around to it later this year.

the great thing about mbp is, you can use it as a media hub. i'm not sure if the macbook come with the apple remote, but my mbp did. and it's pretty sweet.

but if you can afford a voodoo envy...

[iMav]

You should get a MacBook. (They are going to be brushed aluminum and WAY more powerful after Sept. 9 ... but I can't devulge my source)

Apple store is down and there is a media event scheduled for later today.  However, all reports I've read suggest this is strictly an iPod/iTunes event.

I guess we'll find out later today.

[xsphat]

Oh well, I guess my guy was wrong. Somehow I have a feeling iMav won't let this one go.

[xsphat]

I know no one cares, but Apple pisses me off. They didn't even sneak in updates to the computer line, which means I'm going to buy a computer this month just so they can bring out all the new stuff in Jan or Feb. I think the next move will be Jobs ends the entire computer line but keeps up with OS X, continually releasing new versions though no hardware will be able to run it. So now what should I buy? I'm coming home to Vista ...

[bigpook]

Home to Vista? : )
I am visualizing a tin shack that leans to one side......

[xsphat]

JK

[jemkeys]

I see you've gotten tons of advice so far.

But still, I recommend getting (or preferably building) a PC w/ XP.

I'm not a mac fan, and I'm definitely not a Vista fan.

[bigpook]

I would think a Mac would be a better choice. The downside is that they are somewhat expensive. If cost is an issue, there is always a Dell running windows.

I read the top post, so cost is an issue......I suppose a Dell with XP would be a reasonable choice.

[bhtooefr]

xsphat: I recommend an EFI emulator, in that case.

(And I'm half tempted to grab a copy of Kalyway or something, and try again at an OSx86 install on the ThinkPad. This iBook is pissing me off.)

[karlito]

MAC vs PC - which one to buy

that's a great title o_O. Go to apple.com see very few choices in which computer system to buy and have a fairly clear idea of whether or not it's a low/mid/high end computer...

Go to Dell/HP and find a confusing mess of crap and traps that will trick you into buying stuff you don't need and you'll end up being disappointed in the computer you got.

Unfortunately im the family nerd and the nerdy friend everyone asks about their computer problems and what computer to purchase and I honestly get lost on dells website... I could tell you every single part to get for the best low/med/high PC cause it's what I do, computer parts are my passion (think of me as a car guy where computers are my cars) but I tried to configure a PC for my  aunt and I wanted to strangle Dell. I had to hunt through a sea of different systems to finally find one configurator that would let me get a PC closet to what I wanted.

So the real battle isnt Mac vs Windows (cause honestly windows wins... sure it's easier to shoot yourself in the foot o_O) it's really Apple VS every retarded OEM that pushes crap hardware on you that you don't need and then loads it up with 500 advertising programs that completely destroy the system.  So the moral of the story is do you want to spend two or three months researching computer hardware and then reformatting your computer when you get it to remove all the crapware or do you want a computer that "just works"...

I honestly hate the Mac OS (10.5.2) and I gave it serious consideration. ok hate is a strong word but it cant do several things i would like (aka games) and I find the UI to be very frustrating.  Honestly Apple is bar none the best OEM out there... I hate to say it.

I would probably recommend Apple to most people aside from one fact: I never want to get that call "I just bought some software from bestbuy and it dont run on my computer wtf did you tell me to get a mac! whine whine whine..."

[karlito]

so just for fun I configured a Dell Inspiron 518 to be as close as I could get to the cheapest iMac:

Dell Inspiron 518 : $1009
Appl iMac          : $1199

considering apple  has the "cool" all in one form factor a $200 dollar premium isn't that much in terms of hardware specs. Heck I would pay $60 to have no crapware installed so then apple only cost $140 more

A good read IMO:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-mac-leopard-windows-vista,1985.html

[bhtooefr]

Heck I would pay $60 to have no crapware installed

Usually, the equivalent OptiPlex model has almost no crapware (unless you're counting Vista.) And, it's usually only a few bucks more.*

(* Note - that was true before the Vostro came out, I don't know if that makes it any different.)

[FunkTrooper]

Last year, I bought a Dell Vostro 1400, and I was very impressed.  It's a solidly-built, fairly high end machine at a very good price.  However, although they say that they install no crapware, or whatever they decide to call it, that's not entirely true.  It came pre-installed with a 30-day trial for McAffee, which was already running by the time Windows had loaded.  It also contained a load of utterly useless Dell apps, like Dell Network Assistant and several others whose names escape me (I formatted it within an hour of getting it).  Basically, Dell shipped with it software that replicated the functionality that Windows provides, but that do it worse than Windows does.

[Fox]

Just thought I'd chime in about apple notebooks...

Simply put, they have the worst keyboards I have ever seen on any notebook. Ever. So if you like having a good keyboard, you can forget about even having a passable keyboard with a mac notebook.

As far as things you can do with it... there really aren't that many things it can do that a PC can't. Adium looks alright, but really it's just libpurple (which was developed by the gaim/ Pidgin folks) with a new face. Not much new functionality to speak of.

In my recent experiences with OSX I find that the UI bugs me. It seems like it's going out of its way to be shiny and accessible, but it just comes off as annoying to me. The window management is terrible, regardless of whatever crap you can put on there to help mitigate that. The keyboard shortcuts are still awkward to me - control + backspace, which on windows deletes entire words, does nothing in OSX - it's alt backspace. Nit picking? Yeah, but alt + backspace doesn't make nearly as much sense.

What are the specs of the machine you're currently running? If it's giving you problems, you could probably take care of them with a simple reinstall and avoid having to spend a dime - especially if all you want to do is productivity stuff.

[elmomax]

I have a gateway desktop which probably dates to mid-2002 withe xp.  I do not know the computer specs... if you tell me where to look I can find the info. This is an oldie  by today's standards.

[elmomax]

Oh and the CD-rom drive stopped working 6 months ago.

[xsphat]

Girl, I would have to say it's high time you buy a new computer.
















Mac rules.

[Fox]

[elmomax]

Xsphat - exactly.  I have been using my work dell laptop with BBA card at home for the longest time since my archaic doorstop PC is useless and as i said on several occasions it has shut down and I have struggled to get it to turn back on. The only time I use it is for ebay and geekhack and my taxes LOL. I think there is no doubt that my PC is long overdue for replacing. I am going to take everyone's advIce and visit an apple store and make a decision about which way to go. I have been able to put this off since i have my work laptop (which is a dog -- had the motherboard replaced twice in less than a year).Next question is how I get files off my clunker since the CD-rom is not working and I have been living dangerously without benefit of backup.

[elmomax]

PC not as old as I reckoned - purchased end of 2003 not 2002 so only five years young

[xsphat]

At the Apple store, they can transfer your files even from a PC.

[Fox]

PC not as old as I reckoned - purchased end of 2003 not 2002 so only five years young

If that's the case, 20 dollars or less for a new optical drive plus an hour or two spent backing things up and reinstalling windows (or having someone else do it for a bit of cash; I used to do this for my neighbors all the time)... if that's not too impractical a prospect, it could save you a couple thousand dollars.

[bhtooefr]

However, it sounds like there's either PSU or motherboard problems, with it not wanting to power up - and bad caps weren't uncommon back then.

[karlito]

start->run->msinfo32 tells you everything

[Fox]

I didn't notice the post about the other problems until now.

Yeah, seems like it's going downhill.

My two cents: try a few different models of both apple and pc hardware before you settle on one. Laptops look appealing... but having come full circle from desktop to laptop back to homebuilt desktop, I have to say... laptops are really unsuited for anything but mobility. And desktops have a much higher performance to price ratio (unless, of course, that desktop comes from Apple ).

[Eclairz]

get an external hard drive or if your pc is connect to a network create a shared folder and off load all your files onto your new system. 5 years is almost deadly to the hard drive and fans, but the rest of the components should easily last another 5 years with good maintenance.
I would still get a new PC though I never used a pc past its 6th year, but when you do the hardware to fall apart once one thing breaks down the rest usually breakdown as well, thats why always replace your hard drive every 3 years depending on usuage.
After using macs for over a year I think they just work well. The main problem is finding all the software substitutes for windows(excluding games) and then it works fine. Learning how to get the most out of a Mac might also be a problem after being with Windows for a long while and learning every quirk to it there is