Explain Lenovo to me

[elservo]

I don't get it.  Did IBM sell their portable computer line to Lenovo, or is Lenovo just the name IBM is using for their portable computer line?  Is IBM not a marketable name anymore?  I know I could Google this, but you guys are much better at explaining this stuff.  

If you purchase a ThinkPad, is it an IBM Thinkpad or is it a Lenovo Thinkpad?  Is there any difference between IBM and Lenovo?  Does anyone have any idea where my pants might be?

[ch_123]

It never happened. I have IBM stickers covering up all the Lenovo markings on my Thinkpad

IBM lost control of the PC market yonks ago. Their strategy was/is to build high quality stuff (for the most part), give you loads of tech support, but on the other hand they charge you through your nose for it. They ended up in a catch 22 situation whereby if they tried to cut corners, there would be nothing to distinguish them from the competition, and it would damage their reputation with high end stuff where they made all their money (servers, mainframes etc)

The main issue was that the PC market is one of those consumerist disposable ones where really high end stuff doesn't have much more longevity than lower end ones. IBM nearly went bankrupt over attempts to reconquer the PC market and some other bad moves, and they had to undergo a huge restructuring whereby they focused more on providing 'services' than actually making things.

In 2005, they finally decided that the PC market wasn't profitable for them any more, and they sold their PC division to the Chinese company 'Legend', who took over IBM's manufacturing operations in China, and earned the right to produce IBM's Thinkpads and Thinkstations. For the first 2 years or so, they even earned the right to use the IBM logo on the Thinkpads. Legend became Lenovo, supposedly a combination of 'Legend' and 'Noveau'.

Of course, it wasn't the first time IBM had done such a thing. About two years previous, they sold their Hard Drive section to Hitachi after the infamous "Death Star" fiasco. And of course, in 1991 they divested printers, keyboards and typewriters to Lexmark. It's a pretty common thing amongst huge corporations where they overstrech themselves providing for every conceivable market, and they have to shed the dead weight every now and then as a consequence.

[itlnstln]

IBM sold their consumer PC division to Lenovo several years ago. Today, you would be buying a Lenovo Thinkpad. That said, Lenovo has carried on the tradition of quality IBM had, so, for the most part, you would be getting the same quality Thinkpad from Lenovo that you have from IBM about 5-7 years ago.
 
EDIT: Ch_123 said it better.

[ch_123]

Apple has always been a hardware company, according to His Majesty Sir Jobs. Except for the time where it tried to be like other PC manufacturers (when Jobs was off at Next) and failed miserably...

As for the other manufacturers? They're screwed once people figure out how to make cloud computing desirable to the Proles. One of the societies I'm involved with in college has set up a new server so that you can have remote desktop logins running on top of a virtual machine. Truly the way forward.

[salcan]

@ch_123 well said. I think one interesting point was that with the deal Lenovo paid for the right to continue slapping the IBM logo on computer for 5 years. They were happy enough with their progress and continued support in non-China markets that they stopped using the IBM logo after 2 or 3. There was initially some concerns about quality control, and security as Lenovo is a Chinese company, it was just people worrying about nothing.

[didjamatic]

Lenovo would be my first choice for a laptop.  W series specifically but that is just for my intended use, the T's and other series are good as well.  The Thinkpad is a very well made system and even with Lenovo making them, I have been very impressed with their durability and stability.

[bhtooefr]

My main machine is a ThinkPad T60p, one of the first "all-Lenovo" designs.

Does it have weak areas? Sure. But, I'll be damned if they didn't fix just about every weak area of the T4x design.

One thing that helps: they kept the engineering staff that did the previous ThinkPads.

I'm just annoyed that they're not resisting the move from 16:10 to 16:9. Bigger screens with lower resolution are worse, not better. (15.6" tops out at 1920x1080, as opposed to 15.4" 1920x1200.)

[ocdonkb]

The Lenovo thinkpad line was the last to switch from 4:3 to 16:10... and the new generation of Thinkpad T410's will probably be the last 16:10 holdout in this death spiral towards 16:9

[bhtooefr]

But the T510 is jumping both feet in.

[ocdonkb]

Oh, and rest assured that the Lenovo staff is well aware of this issue:

http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=220

[skriefal]

They're well aware of the continuing interest in high-quality screens and <16:9 screens... they simply choose to ignore it and focus their attention on cutting costs.  And that usually means cutting quality.  Same seems to be true with all of their competitors, unfortunately.

And I do have a Thinkpad W510 on the way, so I'm not a Lenovo hater.  But I do so wish that I could get it with an IPS or PVA/MVA screen with a 16:10 aspect ratio.  I'd pay a significant premium for that option... perhaps as much as $500.  I'd pay a somewhat smaller -- but still significant -- premium for an IPS/PVA/MVA 16:9 screen.  But neither of those options are available from Lenovo... or from anyone else, to the best of my knowledge.

[bhtooefr]

Those options are available from at least Lenovo and Apple, problem is, you also get a significant weight penalty.

And, after 2005, the trend for maximum laptop resolution at any screen size has gone down. 2048x1536 in 2005, 1920x1200 in 2006, 1920x1080 coming soon.

[sethstorm]

I don't get it.  Did IBM sell their portable computer line to Lenovo, or is Lenovo just the name IBM is using for their portable computer line?  Is IBM not a marketable name anymore?  I know I could Google this, but you guys are much better at explaining this stuff.  

If you purchase a ThinkPad, is it an IBM Thinkpad or is it a Lenovo Thinkpad?  Is there any difference between IBM and Lenovo?  Does anyone have any idea where my pants might be?

Yes, they did, despite there being a National Security concern.  Problem is that it really should have gone the Dubai Ports way and not have been authorized.

Yes, the quality has declined with them cutting corners.

Flexview (IPS/AFFS panels)? Gone.
4:3? Gone.
16:10?  Nearly Gone.
Keyboard quality (no flexing issue)? Gone.
Construction quality? Shoddier than IBM but a bit better than Dell.
Service? About the same as construction quality - except that you're likely to hear from a Denver or Atlanta call center in the US.
Focus? Changed from "First World products sold to the Third World" to "Third World products sold to First World" in a very bad way.

I'd personally ask if it was possible to have the Lenovo badges removed and still have warranty service.  

Lenovo just used the 5 year time to wait out people who knew about quality and just cut away bit-by-bit until they were marginalized.  Just because it may have been designed in the US doesn't mean they'll follow the quality of the US in a Third World nation.

[sethstorm]

They're well aware of the continuing interest in high-quality screens and <16:9 screens... they simply choose to ignore it and focus their attention on cutting costs.  And that usually means cutting quality.  Same seems to be true with all of their competitors, unfortunately.

And I do have a Thinkpad W510 on the way, so I'm not a Lenovo hater.  But I do so wish that I could get it with an IPS or PVA/MVA screen with a 16:10 aspect ratio.  I'd pay a significant premium for that option... perhaps as much as $500.  I'd pay a somewhat smaller -- but still significant -- premium for an IPS/PVA/MVA 16:9 screen.  But neither of those options are available from Lenovo... or from anyone else, to the best of my knowledge.

They initially took that money that they could have used for Flexview and decided to make a Reserve Edition.  Basically an x61 with leather and a support package.

Hopefully the iPad will light a fire under their collective rear and prove that there are ways to do small-size IPS/AFFS screens.  Txx0/W500/W700/W700ds would be good places for them to start; I would hope (in light of current events) that the 4:3 T60p isn't the last IPS panel Thinkpad around.

Since Lenovo decided to go all "Third World" on the Thinkpad brand, they have gradually brought shame to themselves.  IBM was able to do well by making First World worthy designs, Lenovo hoped we wouldn't notice.

[bhtooefr]

Well, the 15" 4:3 T60p is FAR from the last IPS ThinkPad, but it was the last IPS T series.

The X61 Tablet was IPS, as was the CCFL backlit X200 Tablet. (The LED backlit model was PVA.)

And, the W701 is still going to be IPS.

Of course, I posted a reply to that blog suggesting another business model. Summary of that business model: Be the Apple for business, rather than chase the mass market.

Another summary of what things should be:

X series = the BMW 3 series or Mercedes C Class of laptops
T series = the BMW 5 series or Mercedes E Class of laptops
W5xx = the BMW M5 or Mercedes E63 AMG of laptops
W7xx = the BMW 7 series or Mercedes S Class of laptops

If there's a need for a lower-end model, badge it as an IdeaPad and provide a link to the ThinkPad heritage, but make it clear that it's NOT a ThinkPad.

Then, the ThinkPad will become a premium product, and then Lenovo can charge what they want for it.

[iMav]

Are the X-series the only ones available now without a touchpad?  (I know that the R-series 'e'conomy models used to have that option as well)

The last Thinkpad I purchased, an X60s, was chosen in large part due to it not having a touchpad.

[microsoft windows]

I've always liked the Thinkpads without the touch pads better since the touch pads don't get in the way.

[skriefal]

Those options are available from at least Lenovo and Apple, problem is, you also get a significant weight penalty.

What Lenovo or Apple laptop has an IPS, PVA, or MVA panel?  The 12.1-inch X200t tablet may, but that's it.  The W700 certainly doesn't, although it does have a better than average TN panel.

[skriefal]

And, the W701 is still going to be IPS.

Where did you see this?  I could easily believe that it'll have an RGBLED-backlit TN panel, but IPS or *VA seems unlikely.  But I'd love to be proven wrong.

[bhtooefr]

Oh, damn. I thought they were IPS.

Then, yeah, make it the X200 Tablet with CCFL.

But, as for Apple, I need to find a more valid source, but 99.999% sure the 17" is IPS, and I'm finding stuff claiming the 15.4" is also IPS.

[sethstorm]

And, the W701 is still going to be IPS.

Source?

[sethstorm]

What Lenovo or Apple laptop has an IPS, PVA, or MVA panel?  The 12.1-inch X200t tablet may, but that's it.  The W700 certainly doesn't, although it does have a better than average TN panel.

...but it is still a TN panel.

[skriefal]

Oh, damn. I thought they were IPS.

Then, yeah, make it the X200 Tablet with CCFL.

But, as for Apple, I need to find a more valid source, but 99.999% sure the 17" is IPS, and I'm finding stuff claiming the 15.4" is also IPS.

I think many people mistakenly believe that RGBLED = IPS.  But if Apple is actually using IPS panels in the Macbook Pros... hmm.  Perhaps I'll find myself a future Macbook owner.