Thoughts about the new Steam Deck?

[foxieze]

Seems like a really cool idea, just like the GPD Win 3, but more budget-friendly and the marketing of Valve.
I reserved the cheapest model.

[Findecanor]

Feels like a product for Mac users who'd want to play PC games without buying a PC, but I dunno.

I wonder if the thumbstick placement is comfortable. I suspect that they think people are going to switch to using the trackpads instead.

[yui]

If it has an opened bootloader and allow for other distributions or windows i think it would be great, otherwise it will be a landfill filler in a few years.

[noisyturtle]

It sure worked for NVIDIA, oh wait...

[Findecanor]

It sure worked for NVIDIA, oh wait...

I believe the problem for NVidia was mainly that software library consisted of existing mobile games for Android, which had been made to run fine on phones and tablets that were cheaper than NVidia's.
The NVidia Shield probably led Nintendo to select NVidia for the hardware in the Nintendo Switch — and that is a huge success - so I think you could say that was a net win in the end anyway.

Valve has a big software library, but it is very PC-centric. I hope the games for the Steam Deck won't require too much text input, and that there is a good on-screen keyboard solution for the games that do.

[Leslieann]

I like the idea but...
I think Steam is going to be shocked at the problems with people trying to run everything on it through Proton, give it 6 months after it drops then pick up a used one for $200 or less.

You can get most anything to run on proton, but anything not specifically listed as compatible (which is still a lot) needs tweaking almost every single time and I haven't noticed Steam doing anything to fix it.
Take some of my most recent:
Bioshock - needs a launch option but works well.
Bioshock Remastered - will not work at all. Not sure what they did but it broke everything.
Fallout 4 - Works great, better than New Vegas, needs a launch option. Fantastic otherwise.
Fallout New Vegas - works great overall but you need a launch option added and you need to tweak an INI file to make the mouse usable in menus, not great but usable. Very fickle about graphics, and if you use any other version of proton other than 4.11(?) you have sound issues. Crashy as heck as well, but that happens on Windows as well.
GTA 5 - again, needs a launch option as well as an added file for audio(?)

My advice, install a SSH server and VNC server on it so you can input text to it from a computer because you will probably want it for troubleshooting various games. That way you can copy/paste from a desktop or laptop. On the other hand, this gets more people on Linux, and will give Steam a lot of feedback on where Proton is failing and ultimately lead to improvements.


So what will also happen is people will load up Windows on it.
We don't know if Windows will recognize the CPU or GPU since they are Steam specific. It;s easy to assume the system will work, and it probably will for Win10, but it may not load all the right drivers because it can't properly identify the hardware even if it is just a very minimally tweaked Ryzen.


As for Nvidia
It was an Android and most games on Android are not even remotely setup to use a controller, or keyboard or mouse. Android is all touch screen.  It's the same (or opposite) as trying to input text with a controller, it works, but not very well. Ambitious idea but not entirely a smart one.

[yui]

It sure worked for NVIDIA, oh wait...

steam deck is x86-64
nvidia shield was ARM

you can change the OS on the steam deck (well if valve do not change their mind on that) so it can become a windows pc if you wish
the shield ran a custom Android on a custom cpu

and lastly the shield came before the switch, the steam deck after, and the switch is a glorified Nintendo branded shield. so the shield has no market anymore, while the steam deck is not in the same category in computational power and game library size. i can see it succeed, oh and lastly, it is valve hardware, so it will likely be rather high quality.

I like the idea but...
I think Steam is going to be shocked at the problems with people trying to run everything on it through Proton, give it 6 months after it drops then pick up a used one for $200 or less.

You can get most anything to run on proton, but anything not specifically listed as compatible (which is still a lot) needs tweaking almost every single time and I haven't noticed Steam doing anything to fix it.

my experience with proton and incompatible games is that it heavily depends on distro, some games i own will not start on Debian but run perfectly on Opensuse (last one in mind was Sanctum) and some will be the opposite, so my guess is that steamOS is very optimized, and they said they contacted the largest games devs to make their games work on proton. i do not think it will ever be perfect, anti-cheat/drm will always prevent games from starting in wine/proton but valve has made a lot of effort pushing gaming on linux and it has become pretty seamless for the most parts now.

[Leslieann]

my experience with proton and incompatible games is that it heavily depends on distro, some games i own will not start on Debian but run perfectly on Opensuse (last one in mind was Sanctum) and some will be the opposite, so my guess is that steamOS is very optimized, and they said they contacted the largest games devs to make their games work on proton. i do not think it will ever be perfect, anti-cheat/drm will always prevent games from starting in wine/proton but valve has made a lot of effort pushing gaming on linux and it has become pretty seamless for the most parts now.

It's running a custom Arch with KDE(?), which has some of the best compatibility, probably why they picked it.

Hopefully it leads to a bunch of idiots saying BTW... and getting that stupid thing done and over with. Linux jokes are some of the worst jokes in tech history.

[yui]

one thing i hope it leads to is better linux compatibility or more native linux builds, especially for games with native mac build, both being posix should make porting relatively painless, as this may boost linux adoption for gamers by a fair bit, and may weaken the eternal loop of "no one plays on linux so we do not build on linux" and "there is no games on linux so i will not use it" loop we had for years, although that may only be wishful thinking on my part, i'd love to see less peoples getting frustrated by the inefficiencies of windows...
and knowing valve, i would guess it is their own DE but i have not tried steamOS in years so maybe not.

[tp4tissue]

Before pandemic,  9300h+ 1660ti laptop was selling for $600

Even right now, you can find 1050ti laptops for $400-500

The price seems a bit steep. but this is for kids, and kids are stupid, and they don't teach math anymore so, well there you go.

[yui]

Before pandemic,  9300h+ 1660ti laptop was selling for $600

Even right now, you can find 1050ti laptops for $400-500

The price seems a bit steep. but this is for kids, and kids are stupid, and they don't teach math anymore so, well there you go.

it really do not seem for kid though, and against all its competitors it is the most powerful and cheapest option, so i dunno if it is steep. i think it was Anandtech that did a comparative table with all those handheld pc, and the only one coming close would be the aya neo that is 100 USD more expensive and get less graphics power. i do not feel that laptops are the same market to be honest, and neither do valve from what i read, although we do need to see the performance of the 8 RDNA2 CU to compare with a mobile 1050, if the performance gap is wide then i would agree with you, well not on the for kids part, but for the steep pricing.

[Leslieann]

It's not a matter of what you want right now but a matter of what you can get.
Nvidia restarted the 1050 manufacturing line because they couldn't get enough 30 series and they can be made in older fabs.


Apparently Steam Deck is pre-ordering at insane rates.
Don't let it get your hopes up though, we've seen things like this sell at insane numbers and then still flop. While it may sell a ton, it's till going to be a bit niche as it's not plug and play like a Switch.

[Sintpinty]

I wish i could get the experience of preordering an electronic and getting it on launch day

[yui]

Don't let it get your hopes up though, we've seen things like this sell at insane numbers and then still flop. While it may sell a ton, it's till going to be a bit niche as it's not plug and play like a Switch.

i wonder what makes it less plug and play than the switch, i never used a switch but from what i read from the latest steamOS you just need to connect to the internet to update steam and connect to your account and you are set, i guess you are saying that you need to install windows on it to use? to be fair i do not own a switch nor ever used one, but from what i know you also need an account and internet connection, or am i wrong?

[Leslieann]

If you buy a Switch and Switch game you know it will just work.

I can see it turning into a Windows RT experience.
Steam has a list of things that work well and if they stick to the approved list it'll be fine but the list of unapproved is going to be mighty tempting. Many will think it's just like Windows, "just lower the settings until it works" and with enough able to get those games to work they're going to want to as well. Many are also going to complain how some games don't run as good or like they did on Windows (sometimes they run better but that's not a problem).


Also there is no guarantee Windows will run properly on it, much less Windows games. It;s not an off-the-shelf CPU/IGPU.

[Darthbaggins]

The main title I play will not work on Proton (Destiny 2), along with Blizzard/Activision titles that I swap to throughout the week for amateur comp reasons (CoD is the main series I have competed in since CoD 4).  But I want the deck to do well and will plan on snagging one since I would love to test the stream from PC options for titles that are too large to install or if I do install - would be the only title I could install on the Deck at that time.

[blondie]

I ordered the top end as soon as I found out about it. I've been looking at the Smach-Z for years, but it's vaporware. At this point I think it is lower end hardware (not Zen 2, not RDNA 2) for more money. I also noticed the Aya Neo, but to play general PC games requires some form of mouse input, which is why I like the dual track pads on the Steam Deck.

Don't let it get your hopes up though, we've seen things like this sell at insane numbers and then still flop. While it may sell a ton, it's till going to be a bit niche as it's not plug and play like a Switch.

Why should anyone care how well it does? As long as I get one, I'll be happy. It's a UMPC in a gaming form factor, running a variation of Arch Linux (my preferred distro). I've had plenty of products that flopped (a Transmeta netbook from Sharp for example), but was able to enjoy the product at that time. Further, they're open to other companies making similar products, just as has been happening on the VR front.

Valve has made significant contributions to the advancement of Linux as a legitimate OS for the general public.

If it has an opened bootloader and allow for other distributions or windows i think it would be great, otherwise it will be a landfill filler in a few years.

It's a PC. It doesn't have a locked bootloader.

The main title I play will not work on Proton (Destiny 2), along with Blizzard/Activision titles that I swap to throughout the week for amateur comp reasons (CoD is the main series I have competed in since CoD 4).  But I want the deck to do well and will plan on snagging one since I would love to test the stream from PC options for titles that are too large to install or if I do install - would be the only title I could install on the Deck at that time.

Valve has said that they are working to bring Easy Anti-Cheat and BattleEye support into Proton ahead of launch.

[Darthbaggins]

I ordered the top end as soon as I found out about it. I've been looking at the Smach-Z for years, but it's vaporware. At this point I think it is lower end hardware (not Zen 2, not RDNA 2) for more money. I also noticed the Aya Neo, but to play general PC games requires some form of mouse input, which is why I like the dual track pads on the Steam Deck.

Don't let it get your hopes up though, we've seen things like this sell at insane numbers and then still flop. While it may sell a ton, it's till going to be a bit niche as it's not plug and play like a Switch.

Why should anyone care how well it does? As long as I get one, I'll be happy. It's a UMPC in a gaming form factor, running a variation of Arch Linux (my preferred distro). I've had plenty of products that flopped (a Transmeta netbook from Sharp for example), but was able to enjoy the product at that time. Further, they're open to other companies making similar products, just as has been happening on the VR front.

Valve has made significant contributions to the advancement of Linux as a legitimate OS for the general public.

If it has an opened bootloader and allow for other distributions or windows i think it would be great, otherwise it will be a landfill filler in a few years.

It's a PC. It doesn't have a locked bootloader.

The main title I play will not work on Proton (Destiny 2), along with Blizzard/Activision titles that I swap to throughout the week for amateur comp reasons (CoD is the main series I have competed in since CoD 4).  But I want the deck to do well and will plan on snagging one since I would love to test the stream from PC options for titles that are too large to install or if I do install - would be the only title I could install on the Deck at that time.

Valve has said that they are working to bring Easy Anti-Cheat and BattleEye support into Proton ahead of launch.

It's not that part but the compatibility to port them into a linux environment w/out using Wine/VM since it's an insta-ban if you run Destiny 2 via a VM or wine since they think you're trying to circumvent any chance of cheat detection.

[Leslieann]

Why should anyone care how well it does? As long as I get one, I'll be happy. It's a UMPC in a gaming form factor, running a variation of Arch Linux (my preferred distro). I've had plenty of products that flopped (a Transmeta netbook from Sharp for example), but was able to enjoy the product at that time. Further, they're open to other companies making similar products, just as has been happening on the VR front.

Valve has made significant contributions to the advancement of Linux as a legitimate OS for the general public.

Why should we care?
If it flops, no other company will bother. It's great you got one and in 4 years then what? Wouldn't it be nice if in 4 years you can get a newer better one for even less and have 4 or 5 different ones to pick from instead of having an "I got mine, so what" attitude"?

I want this to succeed because it brings more people to Linux, more money to Linux, more gaming to Linux, this benefits everyone including you.

[blondie]

Why should we care?
If it flops, no other company will bother. It's great you got one and in 4 years then what? Wouldn't it be nice if in 4 years you can get a newer better one for even less and have 4 or 5 different ones to pick from instead of having an "I got mine, so what" attitude"?

I want this to succeed because it brings more people to Linux, more money to Linux, more gaming to Linux, this benefits everyone including you.

You do not sound like someone who wants this to succeed. I've been lurking and reading your posts and you are frequently negative about any given subject. But let's just focus on this one. If you really want it to succeed, don't tell everyone, "Don't let it get your hopes up though, we've seen things like this sell at insane numbers and then still flop." People are going to say, "Well, if it is likely to flop, I'll avoid it, or wait and see." Neither action is helpful to it not flopping. My "I got mine" attitude is a combat to that way of thinking. Don't listen to what Leslieann has to say, don't care if it may flop, buy it anyway! Did you pre order one?

Further, you say, "...give it 6 months after it drops then pick up a used one for $200 or less." Surely you don't really want this to succeed. Telling everyone multiple times you completely expect it to flop, and for everyone to wait for it to do so, and pick it up used then, is not a way to help it to succeed.

[Darthbaggins]

Actually if the price drops that would still be a positive as most devices tend to drop after their initial rush/launch. Consoles do this, minus the switch, and sometimes this is a sign of something newer coming.  If it means a larger influx to Linux LA is definitely for it and is being a realist when it comes to this.  So far Nintendo has a chokehold on this section of the market and some variety is very much welcomed, and if it brings more compatibility to games into a linux based environment I myself will be extremely happy since that would mean I could swing back to running Linux based distro full time over a MSFT based OS that I only stick with due to game and certain software compatibilities.

[noisyturtle]

Almost everyone I know that's into games threw down a preorder for it. If it sells well out the gate the hope would be Valve supports it for a long duration. They have a habit of dropping hardware support soon after a product release.

[Leslieann]

You do not sound like someone who wants this to succeed. I've been lurking and reading your posts and you are frequently negative about any given subject. But let's just focus on this one. If you really want it to succeed, don't tell everyone, "Don't let it get your hopes up though, we've seen things like this sell at insane numbers and then still flop." People are going to say, "Well, if it is likely to flop, I'll avoid it, or wait and see." Neither action is helpful to it not flopping. My "I got mine" attitude is a combat to that way of thinking. Don't listen to what Leslieann has to say, don't care if it may flop, buy it anyway! Did you pre order one?

Further, you say, "...give it 6 months after it drops then pick up a used one for $200 or less." Surely you don't really want this to succeed. Telling everyone multiple times you completely expect it to flop, and for everyone to wait for it to do so, and pick it up used then, is not a way to help it to succeed.

I do want it to succeed but that can only happen if people have realistic expectations.
A slew of people complaining about not being able to play the latest COD or BF is only going to hurt this regardless if those were expected to work or not.

You're looking at it all of this from an initial sales perspective from which it already exceeded every goal they set and then some. In terms of sales it's already a success. I'm looking beyond that..

[Darthbaggins]

Technically is should at least be able to play the editions of CoD that were released to Steam prior to the Activision/Blizzard move.  But for something mobile like this I would prefer to play Action/Adventure based games that I don't have to be highly competitive in - Also liking what I am seeing about users testing Proton with New World, now that is a title I would definitely love to play via handheld whenever I decide to travel again.  I want to put down a pre-order but the 64GB is soldered on eMMC based storage - also not sure if the NVMe models are soldered on or have the potential to swap the drives out.  The ability to upgrade would be huge to me as I don't trust the longevity of microSD's to store large games on etc (I've had plenty die from camera usage etc).

[yui]

Technically is should at least be able to play the editions of CoD that were released to Steam prior to the Activision/Blizzard move.  But for something mobile like this I would prefer to play Action/Adventure based games that I don't have to be highly competitive in - Also liking what I am seeing about users testing Proton with New World, now that is a title I would definitely love to play via handheld whenever I decide to travel again.  I want to put down a pre-order but the 64GB is soldered on eMMC based storage - also not sure if the NVMe models are soldered on or have the potential to swap the drives out.  The ability to upgrade would be huge to me as I don't trust the longevity of microSD's to store large games on etc (I've had plenty die from camera usage etc).

now valve has said it twice and added it on the spec sheet, the ssd are m.2 2230 modules and are meant to be replaceable down the line from what was said in the latest interview i saw, i was a bit hesitant before but with that confirmed i also did put the 4 euro deposit for a 64GB version with the plan to buy a kioxia BG3 SSD and get a 1TB version for the price of the 512GB down the line

[blondie]

I think another issue people may discover is that many PC games do not work well without a mouse and keyboard. I find this to be more of a problem than Linux compatibility. Having played games since the Atari 2600, I am used to joysticks and game pads, and much prefer them. But all too often I'll fire up a new game and will have to do quite some fiddling to get my Dual Shock 4 working with it.

I find Steam's controller configuration UI is far too confusing and complex than it needs to be. Some user-created configurations will have layers that I have no idea how to activate nor how to see what things I can do while they are activated. I'm sure I could figure it out if I start researching, but I don't have the motivation. I want to play a game, not do IT work.

Hopefully as more people get these, they'll publish their working configurations that we can just use.

[noisyturtle]

I think it's a poor design decision to place the touch pads exactly where your palm rests. We'll have to see.

[Coreda]

They're obviously rather confident their as-yet unreleased improvements to Proton will bring wider compatibility with their statement about the goal being to support 'every' Windows game by launch. Will be interesting to see how streamlined they've made it.

As for Valve's track record I'm not sure it's so clear cut (that is, the pessimistic takes). It would seem Steam Machines didn't take off due to it coming before the improvements Proton brought (IIRC), along with lackluster third-party specs (Valve didn't make the hardware they just partnered with companies).

Then the Steam Controller while praised for its quality was just too unorthodox that it became finicky to get ideal configs per game (despite community configs available) and then Valve lost a case with the company claiming a patent on the controller back paddles (which Microsoft now pays and presumably Valve will too with the Deck judging by the renders).

With the Valve Index headset there doesn't seem to be any similar issues. It's the best-in-class VR headset and they're still selling it. So I think with the Deck it largely depends whether game support is solid, control scheme works for enough games people want to play (hopefully lessons learned from the Steam Controller) and whether general management is at least on-par with the Windows Steam experience (in terms of when things crash or need to get tweaked how accessible that is for newcomers given it'll be Linux-based).

[Darthbaggins]

Technically is should at least be able to play the editions of CoD that were released to Steam prior to the Activision/Blizzard move.  But for something mobile like this I would prefer to play Action/Adventure based games that I don't have to be highly competitive in - Also liking what I am seeing about users testing Proton with New World, now that is a title I would definitely love to play via handheld whenever I decide to travel again.  I want to put down a pre-order but the 64GB is soldered on eMMC based storage - also not sure if the NVMe models are soldered on or have the potential to swap the drives out.  The ability to upgrade would be huge to me as I don't trust the longevity of microSD's to store large games on etc (I've had plenty die from camera usage etc).

now valve has said it twice and added it on the spec sheet, the ssd are m.2 2230 modules and are meant to be replaceable down the line from what was said in the latest interview i saw, i was a bit hesitant before but with that confirmed i also did put the 4 euro deposit for a 64GB version with the plan to buy a kioxia BG3 SSD and get a 1TB version for the price of the 512GB down the line

I would be interested if the 64GB still housed the m.2 slot to allow internal expansion - so if that's the case I will have to toss in a pre-order.

[nostyle_au]

Looking like a reasonable, affordable entry back into PC gaming. Haven't played many games lately after selling my PC and moving solely to Mac so I might end up picking one up if/when they decide to offer it in Australia. Index still isn't available here so not going to get my hopes up.

[blondie]

I would be interested if the 64GB still housed the m.2 slot to allow internal expansion - so if that's the case I will have to toss in a pre-order.

It does. Gabe Newell stated as such in a direct question.

[Darthbaggins]

Well looks like I'll be putting in my pre-order - and my son will be "getting" a Steam Deck for Christmas (he'll get more use out of it than a Switch).  I know the loophole to use with the wife for new toys lol.

[blondie]

Well looks like I'll be putting in my pre-order - and my son will be "getting" a Steam Deck for Christmas (he'll get more use out of it than a Switch).  I know the loophole to use with the wife for new toys lol.

I think maybe the first rounds of Steam Decks will ship in December, but most people will get theirs next year. Maybe if you mean Christmas of 2022, that's a more likely time frame.

Think of it like a keyboard group buy.

[yui]

Well looks like I'll be putting in my pre-order - and my son will be "getting" a Steam Deck for Christmas (he'll get more use out of it than a Switch).  I know the loophole to use with the wife for new toys lol.

I think maybe the first rounds of Steam Decks will ship in December, but most people will get theirs next year. Maybe if you mean Christmas of 2022, that's a more likely time frame.

Think of it like a keyboard group buy.

when i put my pre-order the ETA was 02/2022 to get it by December you needed to put your pre-order 1st day, it kinda sold like hot cakes from what i understood.

[Coreda]

when i put my pre-order the ETA was 02/2022 to get it by December you needed to put your pre-order 1st day, it kinda sold like hot cakes from what i understood.

Based on a thread I was following (with dozens posting their order ETAs) only those who ordered within the first few minutes didn't have the 2022/23 ETA. Reminded me of the Ampere launch last year.

All these increasingly crazy purchase windows for different products. I've seen literal seconds windows for some limited batch products where a year ago for the same product it was said to be a lot more casual (and this wasn't even something that had any electronics in it). People recommending having instant payment setup before even considering such orders.

[grayboards]

think I'll wait a bit and pick up a secondhand one, seems like a cool road trip device.