geekhack

geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: illusixn on Thu, 25 November 2021, 10:51:22

Title: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: illusixn on Thu, 25 November 2021, 10:51:22
IC Form (https://forms.gle/pvmDNmsCrPqbCZ7i9)

I've mostly moved away from using/being interested in super colorful keysets, and end up using WoB or beige a lot of the time. I do, however, like to change things up a bit and I think sublegended alphas are a good way to do that. Once all the alpha kits I picked up during CRP R4 ship, I'll have all I need to have a solid rotation of beige alphas with sublegends. Now, I want to be in a similar situation with WoB.

Why Addon Kits?
Mostly, I'm not sure there's really a way for me to offer full base kits that are competitive, in terms of price, lead time, and convenience, with what Drop offers. This way, people can pick up WoB from Drop when it's available and have a set they can use in a reasonable amount of time. Then, they'll be able to pass it down to their grandkids to use in time for these addon kits to ship.
Also, while I was preparing this, an IC was released and GB was run for WoB Red Cyrillic. I felt people who wanted will get in on that group buy, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to move away from what I was doing.

Kits:
Below are the kits I'm interested in getting made.
Colors follow the standard WoB scheme, WS1 on CR, with sublegends UV printed in P3 (because that's my favorite look).

Katakana:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51704385868_9c45b9d4f5_o.png)

APL:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51704057841_2ed09eedeb_o.png)


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51704631674_46d1c0f468_o.png) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51704846440_f36fef56fc_o.png)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51704846175_4f4326c178_o.png) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51704236553_24634f4753_o.png)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51704846365_afd9890ca2_o.png)


Vendors:
None yet.

Pricing:
None yet.

Notes and other thoughts:
There is one more kit that I'm looking to run, but I omitted it from the initial IC because an IC already released for something similar. As a result, I'm waiting until things are finalized on their end. Once that happens I'll either add the kit to the IC and get that in motion, or drop it completely.

I'm choosing to go with UV printed subs over trying to get doubleshot molds made for a couple reasons:
1. I just much prefer the look, which is the most important thing.
2. It will be much easier to bring the legends within GMK spec for UV printing than for getting molds produced.
3. Pricing. The cost of an alpha kit that has UV printed subs will probably be much cheaper than a kit that has a bunch of new molds that need to be paid for.

The APL subs follow the layout used in CRP's kits, but I'm pretty sure there are a few people who have issues with this layout. I'm not one of them because I have not and will likely never write anything in APL so accuracy/usability is not something I prioritized. People who do see this as an issue, please fill out the open suggestion box in the IC form and let me know. I might see what I can do.
Most of the subs used were traced by a friend, with a few done by myself since Hammerworks wanted me to pay like $8k plus an additional 7% of sale price for every kit made over 500 in order to license their files for use with GMK.
The only thing I'm really concerned about is price. I've only ever done one other keyset related project and it also had alphas with UV printed sublegends. The pricing quoted on that kit was garbage, and I'm hoping the difference of stock colors here vs. custom colors will mean GMK won't scalp us on price.
I don't really want to run this anytime soon, so I plan on having a pretty long IC phase. Be sure to leave feedback in the form and let me know things you think can be improved. Thanks.

IC Form (https://forms.gle/pvmDNmsCrPqbCZ7i9)
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: illusixn on Thu, 25 November 2021, 10:53:39
reserved
(https://i.imgur.com/FYp6RQj.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: The0rigina1 on Thu, 25 November 2021, 10:54:57
I think you should consider adding a tab?
It allows people to use this with the leftovers from a wob kit on another keyboard.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Oggi on Thu, 25 November 2021, 10:55:30
providing the people with what they need
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: sup3r170va on Thu, 25 November 2021, 10:59:11
I’m in. Can u consider a hangul kit as well.

And BoW :)
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Skok on Thu, 25 November 2021, 10:59:28
APL subs in blue would slap

also
More
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/900815995223044116/910974954575626300/FERAr3UXwAADQQi.png)
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Ella on Thu, 25 November 2021, 11:03:10
This is incredibly based, hope you get quotes within this decade
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Thu, 25 November 2021, 11:04:36
Quote from: illusixn on Thu, 25 November 2021, 10:51:22
I've mostly moved away from using/being interested in super colorful keysets, and end up using WoB or beige a lot of the time. I do, however, like to change things up a bit and I think sublegended alphas are a good way to do that. Once all the alpha kits I picked up during CRP R4 ship, I'll have all I need to have a solid rotation of beige alphas with sublegends. Now, I want to be in a similar situation with WoB.
This is what the hobby needs  :cool:
Great set, felt like there's just been too many recent forced theme sets that look like another set
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: o3okevin on Thu, 25 November 2021, 11:06:01
Love the concept! Adding a tab + arrows would go a long way to increasing compatibility for two boards in a WoB set + Alpha Addon
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Hyperdimension on Thu, 25 November 2021, 11:07:22
+1 for hangul
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: packman86 on Thu, 25 November 2021, 11:19:17
APL Interest Checked.  :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: ilikerustoo on Thu, 25 November 2021, 12:02:18
Super interested in APL
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: sirieous on Thu, 25 November 2021, 12:08:40
This is neat. Please gib

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Sicowa on Thu, 25 November 2021, 13:21:17
really like this set, hope all goes well GLWIC
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: denibhoxha on Thu, 25 November 2021, 13:38:50
can i get ughhhhhhhhhhhh hangul on this too?
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: mixistor on Thu, 25 November 2021, 13:47:51
Please consider add an extra tab to the kits! And really looks good
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Zurg Eon on Thu, 25 November 2021, 14:02:53
Got to have all things WoB! An extra tab would be great
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: mmayhem17 on Thu, 25 November 2021, 14:03:21
+1 extra tab gang
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: actress on Thu, 25 November 2021, 14:22:33
Great idea!
+1 for APL, Hangul
Also someone mentioned this already but blue subs on black would be very cool.
Maybe do blue Cyrillic?
Personally not interested in katakana.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Qarmaa on Thu, 25 November 2021, 14:36:36
Nice. Please consider removing dashed squares from punctuation signs on katakana.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: yoot on Thu, 25 November 2021, 15:04:25
Hey there, please consider making the APL set useable. As it is now, it is based on an old version of the APL keyboard layout.

(https://www.dyalog.com/uploads/images/Business/products/us_rc.jpg)

as you can see here (this is an up to date APL keyboard), multiple sublegends on your set are incorrect.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: yoot on Thu, 25 November 2021, 15:31:50
Quote from: yoot on Thu, 25 November 2021, 15:04:25
Hey there, please consider making the APL set useable. As it is now, it is based on an old version of the APL keyboard layout.

Show Image
(https://www.dyalog.com/uploads/images/Business/products/us_rc.jpg)


as you can see here (this is an up to date APL keyboard), multiple sublegends on your set are incorrect.

I have made a list of all the keys which need to be fixed:

Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: GaNeBaL on Thu, 25 November 2021, 16:12:06
 :thumb: +1 for tab, arrows & crp's apl, kata is w.e but im sure there are plenty of people who would enjoy it. (also maybe add a normal f13 since the drop sets don't have them included)

good **** and glwic
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: LaserCrafter on Thu, 25 November 2021, 17:32:53
can you do front print apl
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: wahfuhls on Thu, 25 November 2021, 18:21:01
+1 for hangul and blue variants
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: santela on Thu, 25 November 2021, 18:47:46
Was hoping for mod add-ons. WoB doesn't have all the mods and extra B I need, sad.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: patzorz on Thu, 25 November 2021, 18:56:33
Im in for APL for sure :)
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 25 November 2021, 19:01:57
Great idea with the APL. In for a set no matter what happens.

If it's any help, I have an original Cherry APL board. I'd be happy to take high resolution, "flat" photos of them if you and your friend wanted to go for a 1:1 repro. I'd only ask that you forward me the traced legends when you're done!
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: dallman5 on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:03:25
in for apl, this looks great

wtb og cherry apl btw........
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Kinesiologist on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:11:59
yes please
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:32:16
Quote from: yoot on Thu, 25 November 2021, 15:31:50
Quote from: yoot on Thu, 25 November 2021, 15:04:25
Hey there, please consider making the APL set useable. As it is now, it is based on an old version of the APL keyboard layout.

Show Image
(https://www.dyalog.com/uploads/images/Business/products/us_rc.jpg)


as you can see here (this is an up to date APL keyboard), multiple sublegends on your set are incorrect.

I have made a list of all the keys which need to be fixed:

  • \ key - should be right tack (⊢) and left tack (⊣) only
  • { key - correct aside from the branch (→) being on this key; it shouldn’t be.
  • } key - should have right arrow (→) and zilde (⍬) only
  • P key - should have star (*) and star diaeresis (⍣) only
  • O key - should have circle (○) and circle diaeresis (⍥) only
  • I key - should have iota (⍳) and iota underbar (⍸) only
  • T key - should have tilde (~) and tilde diaeresis (⍨) only
  • E key - should also have epsilon underbar (⍷)
  • - key - has an extra minus in red? Not needed. Also should be times (×) instead of plus (+)
  • + key - does not need the times (×) symbol.
  • ‘ key - should have thorn (⍕) as well as equal underbar slash (≢) only
  • ; key - should have hydrant (⍎) as well as equal underbar (≡) only
  • L key - should also have squad (⌷)
  • J key - should also have jot diaeresis (⍤)
  • / key - should have slash bar (⌿) and quad colon (⍠) only
  • . key - should have backslash bar (⍀) and delta underbar (⍙) only
  • , key - should have lamp (⍝) and comma bar (⍪) only
  • M key - remove the front print legend
  • ` key - remove the front print legend

Good stuff yoot. Hope this version goes through.

Oblotzky, do you have WoB Cadet plans? Could it fit in here if you didn’t?
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: yoot on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:34:28
Quote from: Photekq on Thu, 25 November 2021, 19:01:57
Great idea with the APL. In for a set no matter what happens.

If it's any help, I have an original Cherry APL board. I'd be happy to take high resolution, "flat" photos of them if you and your friend wanted to go for a 1:1 repro. I'd only ask that you forward me the traced legends when you're done!
FYI OG Cherry APL is outdated
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:53:22
Quote from: yoot on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:34:28
Quote from: Photekq on Thu, 25 November 2021, 19:01:57
Great idea with the APL. In for a set no matter what happens.

If it's any help, I have an original Cherry APL board. I'd be happy to take high resolution, "flat" photos of them if you and your friend wanted to go for a 1:1 repro. I'd only ask that you forward me the traced legends when you're done!
FYI OG Cherry APL is outdated

you are correct but 95% of people are gonna be using this for looks and not for actual APL usecases so there is little incentive to actually put in the work

most subs are at least partially wrong, GMK hangul and japanese especially, the only one i know of that is 95%+ correct is JTK Japanese

though i will add that i have a lot of respect for you putting in the time to explain how to do this correctly
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:54:56
Quote from: yoot on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:34:28
FYI OG Cherry APL is outdated
I'm not surprised, it seems like a lot of Cherry's regional layouts/languages were incorrect or outdated in some way. What's actually outdated on them, out of curiosity?

Is it any more out of date than the Hammer layout? From what I can tell, the differences between the two are very minor, and in some cases Hammer took legends from entirely different keys to adapt from the DE ISO of the originals to ANSI. For example, the APL legends on \| are from the German >< key next to left shift.

I figured it might be a better source for tracing, since Hammer's legends are traced from these to begin with - taking them from the source should be ideal. Any modernisation would have to be done with the Hammer traces anyway. If it's not needed or wanted, no problem though! Just thought I'd make the offer.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: nullinasou on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:55:49
+1 for cyrillic alphas (not sublegends)
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: DaaDaa on Thu, 25 November 2021, 22:38:35
This is very much needed. so many boards can use this
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: vanyll on Fri, 26 November 2021, 03:02:57
You can't have enough different WoB alphas! Great concept.
However, is there a reason why the sublegends have to be red? Would prefer them to be white, tbh.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Dyto69 on Fri, 26 November 2021, 05:33:16
IM SOO IN YESS, I missed out on the other WoB with Sublegends but not this one.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: stidal on Fri, 26 November 2021, 05:35:29
so good. so good.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: GMK83 on Fri, 26 November 2021, 06:41:31
Yes, yes and yes
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: Qarmaa on Fri, 26 November 2021, 08:02:57
Quote from: Puddsy on Thu, 25 November 2021, 21:53:22
you are correct but 95% of people are gonna be using this for looks and not for actual APL usecases so there is little incentive to actually put in the work

most subs are at least partially wrong, GMK hangul and japanese especially, the only one i know of that is 95%+ correct is JTK Japanese

though i will add that i have a lot of respect for you putting in the time to explain how to do this correctly
Even if people gonna use it only for looks, there is no reason to not do a proper subs.

Rerading of JTK hiragana vs GMK hiragana: with updated molds that made for Serika 2, GMK are most correct ones, and actually JTK lacks couple of things. Difference in font is just subjective thing but personally I prefer GMK one. Not even mention that JTK have a lot of issues in latin legends, mods legends and generally sucks.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: TyPo.mk on Fri, 26 November 2021, 09:08:49
I like this
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: hottrout on Fri, 26 November 2021, 10:44:05
Nice.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: DaaDaa on Fri, 26 November 2021, 14:26:13
i was gonna saythat i hope for jtk over gmk for manufacturing .. but fact is that they all suck, gmk, jtk, ePBT non can be counted on 9in terms of delivery on time
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: scrubbiecris on Fri, 26 November 2021, 22:54:13
coincidentally was recently looking into dyalog keyboards because of the apl keycaps, definitely interested in this. glwic!
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: shima on Sat, 27 November 2021, 01:17:35
honestly really love this & will probably buy in. am wondering if there would be a possibility of hiragana to be added though :>
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: pleasega on Sun, 28 November 2021, 08:32:27
hangul pls, can make it in blue as well, whichever id still buy

edit: or white doubleshot too even better
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: asswipe09 on Mon, 29 November 2021, 17:31:09
PLZ hangul  ;D
Edit: Different color variations too please sir
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: mattyisforlovers on Mon, 29 November 2021, 21:20:18
I'm in for these! Please do consider the tab, but I'd love to see a set or some form of kit for all the non-alpha keys... maybe someone wants  wob kit for a numpad or something. 

The more wacky sublegends the better but release them over a set schedule... I might have to eat food. If too many drop at once I can't eat.
So very hungry lately...    :))
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: DeMechanica on Mon, 29 November 2021, 23:20:19
I know someone who would adore Hangul!

Also, could you run a 40s/Ortho kit with this?
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: GrumioThaSpoonGod on Thu, 02 December 2021, 21:49:32
add a color other than red for the sub legends pls.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: SE7EN_ate_NINE on Fri, 03 December 2021, 08:01:08
I'm in for both of these, but why not add some other sublegend options too and other sublegend colors? WoB with pink Hiragana sublegends would look very cool.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: illusixn on Mon, 13 December 2021, 14:39:00
I think other sublegends and colors would be cool, but MOQs are still a thing and I don't want the existence of too many kits to cannibalize each other. A couple vendors will guarantee all kits get made, but whether or not they want to run this is out of my control. Hangul would be nice, and I'd be interested in running it if  I decide not to go with the other kit I'm currently eyeing.

In regards to kitting:
I've gotten a decent number of requests to add tab. If I add tab, I feel like I might as well be adding enters and spacebars so people can fill two boards without having to compromise. No clue how pricing would look on a kit like this, but I'm down to submit quotes with multiple kitting variations to see what we'd be dealing with. Working on some updated kitting renders.
IF Hangul is added, there are no subs on the numrow or punctuation keys, so the option of a cheaper kit that doesn't include the keys to fill two boards may be preferable. If people would rather have the option of filling two boards via a larger, more expensive kit, let me know.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: denibhoxha on Tue, 14 December 2021, 19:01:12
Honestly for the hangul kit id say to go with the cheaper option without the extra keys and numrow, considering its the easier option in terms of kitting as well.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: rath_k on Wed, 15 December 2021, 01:43:53
wob alphas goated.

Would really like to see some greek alphas such as in gmk greek beige.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: jagger27 on Thu, 16 December 2021, 10:53:43
goated, based, etc. will buy
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: krzank on Sat, 18 December 2021, 17:39:58
R4:Backslash/Pipe please!
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons
Post by: logaboga on Mon, 27 December 2021, 10:16:37
Quote from: SE7EN_ate_NINE on Fri, 03 December 2021, 08:01:08
I'm in for both of these, but why not add some other sublegend options too and other sublegend colors? WoB with pink Hiragana sublegends would look very cool.

A bit late of a response, but I actually got my (only) set of keycaps from AliExpress because there was a vendor with a PBT keyset in WoB and pink hiragana sublegends. Don't have a pic with my nice camera on hand, but here's one with an iPhone: https://imgur.com/a/vjrNQqh (https://imgur.com/a/vjrNQqh)

I believe the seller's actually taken the listing down now, which is a real shame.
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: HYTE-Eddie on Mon, 27 December 2021, 11:48:18
IC Form filled out!   :thumb:
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: fropsie on Thu, 30 December 2021, 01:05:34
Super pumped for that APL, but as said before by others would love to see a more accurate rework of it!
Great job none-the-less!
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: ideus on Sun, 02 January 2022, 17:50:21
Is there a target date for this GB to run? Or is it not in that stage yet?
Title: Re: [IC] GMK WoB Alpha Addons (APL, Katakana)
Post by: illusixn on Thu, 20 January 2022, 09:47:36
Quote from: ideus on Sun, 02 January 2022, 17:50:21
Is there a target date for this GB to run? Or is it not in that stage yet?

It's not yet in that stage. I am unable to contact GMK regarding quotes until I have vendors on board so I'm working on that now. I've reached out to my vendor of choice, and depending on the response, I'll determine how I move forward (whether or not I'm able to add a couple more kits to the currently proposed offering).

Currently working on new renders of different kitting options. Considering including spacebars (6.25u/7u), tab, and enters (so people won't have to use the accent enter's included in Drop's kits). I plan on submitting all kitting options for quotes at the same time so I can decide whether or not pricing on the larger kits is reasonable.