[MOD]: Type-S (silent) Leopold FC660C

[Cafeine]

I'm tempted to do this on my Topre boards (I own 2 FC660C, 1 RF 55g and I was planning to buy a HHKB Type-S next month in Japan but now, I'm thinking a "normal" one would be even better...) and I wanted to know if someone used another material than the one sold by EK, that I can buy in Europe. I have nothing against EK, it's just so I can get something faster. If not, I'll delay my plans and order while I'm in Japan so my package don't get lost in our horrible postal service limboooo...   Thanks for the awesome tips / tutorial btw ! I actually like my "unsilenced" boards but I like choice.

[spiceBar]

I'm tempted to do this on my Topre boards (I own 2 FC660C, 1 RF 55g and I was planning to buy a HHKB Type-S next month in Japan but now, I'm thinking a "normal" one would be even better...) and I wanted to know if someone used another material than the one sold by EK, that I can buy in Europe. I have nothing against EK, it's just so I can get something faster. If not, I'll delay my plans and order while I'm in Japan so my package don't get lost in our horrible postal service limboooo...   Thanks for the awesome tips / tutorial btw ! I actually like my "unsilenced" boards but I like choice.

I have never heard of someone having used the ironed landing pads mod with pads that did not come from EK.

Some people have used other materials, a silicone sheet for example, but they could not flatten them with a clothing iron, resulting in a loss of key travel and a significant loss of tactility.

You really need to find a very thin dampening material, or one that you can make very thin. It also has to be stable in time.

The landing pads from EK have all these properties, and they have been tested time and again. At this point it's the safe choice.

[Cafeine]

I'm tempted to do this on my Topre boards (I own 2 FC660C, 1 RF 55g and I was planning to buy a HHKB Type-S next month in Japan but now, I'm thinking a "normal" one would be even better...) and I wanted to know if someone used another material than the one sold by EK, that I can buy in Europe. I have nothing against EK, it's just so I can get something faster. If not, I'll delay my plans and order while I'm in Japan so my package don't get lost in our horrible postal service limboooo...   Thanks for the awesome tips / tutorial btw ! I actually like my "unsilenced" boards but I like choice.

I have never heard of someone having used the ironed landing pads mod with pads that did not come from EK.

Some people have used other materials, a silicone sheet for example, but they could not flatten them with a clothing iron, resulting in a loss of key travel and a significant loss of tactility.

You really need to find a very thin dampening material, or one that you can make very thin. It also has to be stable in time.

The landing pads from EK have all these properties, and they have been tested time and again. At this point it's the safe choice.

Yep, I'll use that then, and buy some lube while at it. It's just that I'll have to wait to be back from Japan so I'm sure that I can take care of the package. Thanks!

[spiceBar]

I'm tempted to do this on my Topre boards (I own 2 FC660C, 1 RF 55g and I was planning to buy a HHKB Type-S next month in Japan but now, I'm thinking a "normal" one would be even better...) and I wanted to know if someone used another material than the one sold by EK, that I can buy in Europe. I have nothing against EK, it's just so I can get something faster. If not, I'll delay my plans and order while I'm in Japan so my package don't get lost in our horrible postal service limboooo...   Thanks for the awesome tips / tutorial btw ! I actually like my "unsilenced" boards but I like choice.

I have never heard of someone having used the ironed landing pads mod with pads that did not come from EK.

Some people have used other materials, a silicone sheet for example, but they could not flatten them with a clothing iron, resulting in a loss of key travel and a significant loss of tactility.

You really need to find a very thin dampening material, or one that you can make very thin. It also has to be stable in time.

The landing pads from EK have all these properties, and they have been tested time and again. At this point it's the safe choice.

Yep, I'll use that then, and buy some lube while at it. It's just that I'll have to wait to be back from Japan so I'm sure that I can take care of the package. Thanks!

Yes, buy the blue and maybe also the red lube. The blue one is thick and works well for the stabilizers. The red one is less useful in Topre keyboards, and actually I have only used it in Cherry MX keyboards. It's too thin for the stabilizers, and too thick for the sliders. However it's cheap, and it could be useful some day... Who knows.

[Cafeine]

Yes, buy the blue and maybe also the red lube. The blue one is thick and works well for the stabilizers. The red one is less useful in Topre keyboards, and actually I have only used it in Cherry MX keyboards. It's too thin for the stabilizers, and too thick for the sliders. However it's cheap, and it could be useful some day... Who knows.

Yeah, when I order that far, I tend to go overboard anyway. Thx for the tips.

[HalfSharkAlligator]

I successfully completed this mod today.  It was extremely time consuming but WELL WORTH IT.  The board sounds SO much nicer now.  It still has the wonderful thock, but no plasticky click on the upstroke of each key.  It makes the board feel much more high-end.  And, it won't bother my coworkers on conference calls now (or my wife). 

Seriously, I could not be happier with the results.  THANKS SPICEBAR for putting this together. 

[Gaspar]

How much time did it take? How was the dis- and reassembling, are the modifiers keys hard to deal with? Did you lubed it as well?

[HalfSharkAlligator]

How much time did it take? How was the dis- and reassembling, are the modifiers keys hard to deal with? Did you lubed it as well?

Several hours. People often try to brag about how quickly they finish projects online, so I'm sure there will be those who mock this, but I'll try to come up with an honest estimate. I worked fairly slowly and meticulously to do quality work. I only lubed the stabilizer bars, not the pistons on each key.

ironing landing pads - 1.5 hours
disassembling board - 1 hour
lubing stabs - 15 mins
applying landing pads - 2-3 hours
reassembling board - 1 hour

All in, it was probably about 6-7 hours of work, which I did over the course of a few weeks.  I'm sure if you are less meticulous and careful you could do it in about 4 hours total.  Ironing the landing pads takes a long time to do in groups of four, and you have to get them really flat to avoid decreased travel.  Also, I was careful to make sure the pads were all the way down the piston and were not going to "flip up" in any way, and i even clipped the edges off around it as i found that it made them less likely to "flip up" the opposite curvature.

Disassembling is not difficult but you need to take your time so you don't break or damage the plastic clips in doing so. I recommend sliding plastic credit card or membership cards in between the clips and the plate as you work your way around the board. Modifier keys are not difficult to deal with at all.  I did not remove the modifier key / stab housings like Spicebar did, I only removed the stabilizer bar and the piston. 

[Gaspar]

Thanks for all the infos. I'm considering doing it for my Leopold. I love the character keys, they sound and feel very good, but the modifier keys are pretty clicky, particularly the backspace key.

[Cafeine]

Yep, thx for the information. I have to do it on ALL my boards now. The Type-S spoiled me. :x

[Cafeine]

OK, so I DID IT, I modded my Leopold FC660C 2014. Lubbed the stabs, modded all the keys. I thought some remarks from a noob could help. A lot of obvious stuff but when you're a noob...

I ironed the landing pads to death (it took HOURS - well, a bit more than 2), ironed 160 because I plan to do my RF 87U too. Pro tips: a wood cutting board is nice to do this UNLESS they are in 3 glued parts. At the end you will have 3 small cutting boards when you'll wash them... :x )(been there, done that).

You WANT to iron those landing pads because the travel of the key is REALLY killed by the normal sized pads. No they can't really be "too thin". And I didn't burn one even at max temp.

Opening the case is not that hard (1st screw is under the small OK sticker, not the BIG middle sticker...)

The work is TEDIOUS but worth it, really. I think I messed up only 2 keys and the spacebar. 2 keys produces some "sticky" sound, dunno why yet. The space bar is totally silenced (lub ftw... ) but the travel is too short, maybe because of the landing pads I used on the stabs (the switch use the same ironed landing pad). I'll check that later, right now I have some work and doing it on this beast anyway.

Don't check out the sound of the switchs on the plate only. The sound is totally different and much better when you'll put back the PCB & plate together. They need to be sandwiched by all those screws. Don't panic if one modded switch is a bit lazy and don't want to go down by itself easily. I had 3/4 like that and it's not a problem. A REAL trouble would be a switch staying down, but I don't even know if that can happen with this mod.

TL;DR : this mod takes HOURS, totally worth it and if you're lazy you can only do it on mods I guess. On my FC660C 2014 they were horribly noisy and now it's a dream, HHKB-Type-S-Like-only-better. I used stab wire lub too btw, it helps a lot, especially on the spacebar.

Thanks again SpicyBar for the idea / research and post!!!

[Latin00032]

OK, so I DID IT, I modded my Leopold FC660C 2014. Lubbed the stabs, modded all the keys. I thought some remarks from a noob could help. A lot of obvious stuff but when you're a noob...

I ironed the landing pads to death (it took HOURS - well, a bit more than 2), ironed 160 because I plan to do my RF 87U too. Pro tips: a wood cutting board is nice to do this UNLESS they are in 3 glued parts. At the end you will have 3 small cutting boards when you'll wash them... :x )(been there, done that).

You WANT to iron those landing pads because the travel of the key is REALLY killed by the normal sized pads. No they can't really be "too thin". And I didn't burn one even at max temp.

Opening the case is not that hard (1st screw is under the small OK sticker, not the BIG middle sticker...)

The work is TEDIOUS but worth it, really. I think I messed up only 2 keys and the spacebar. 2 keys produces some "sticky" sound, dunno why yet. The space bar is totally silenced (lub ftw... ) but the travel is too short, maybe because of the landing pads I used on the stabs (the switch use the same ironed landing pad). I'll check that later, right now I have some work and doing it on this beast anyway.

Don't check out the sound of the switchs on the plate only. The sound is totally different and much better when you'll put back the PCB & plate together. They need to be sandwiched by all those screws. Don't panic if one modded switch is a bit lazy and don't want to go down by itself easily. I had 3/4 like that and it's not a problem. A REAL trouble would be a switch staying down, but I don't even know if that can happen with this mod.

TL;DR : this mod takes HOURS, totally worth it and if you're lazy you can only do it on mods I guess. On my FC660C 2014 they were horribly noisy and now it's a dream, HHKB-Type-S-Like-only-better. I used stab wire lub too btw, it helps a lot, especially on the spacebar.

Thanks again SpicyBar for the idea / research and post!!!

Any pics of the process?

I'd like to see how flat you made the pads.

[Cafeine]

I only took useless artsy (ahem) pics for my instagram because I don't really have much more to show but I can do one tomorrow with the pads so you can see the difference between mine and the stock ones. I'll try to do more pics for the 87U. I may mod my "old" FC660C too but I kinda like how this one sound at the moment. Dirt does wonders I guess.

[TastaturenAuslese]

Waiting for my landing pads from EK which should arrive in the next few days

Quick question: Does the ironing result in permanent flattening of the landing pads? i.e. if I leave them out while I prep to put them on the sliders, will they slowly get thicker again? Or in other words, do I need to rush to put them on the sliders asap so they don't have the chance to grow back to their original size? I'm assuming that the heat from the iron permanently melts the inside of the landing pad and makes the flattening permanent.

[colomb]

Has anyone tried punching holes in the landing pads to more closely match the circumference of the sliders? I realize it doesn't affect the travel, but there is something about the pads riding up the slider that irks me.

[Cafeine]

Waiting for my landing pads from EK which should arrive in the next few days

Quick question: Does the ironing result in permanent flattening of the landing pads? i.e. if I leave them out while I prep to put them on the sliders, will they slowly get thicker again? Or in other words, do I need to rush to put them on the sliders asap so they don't have the chance to grow back to their original size? I'm assuming that the heat from the iron permanently melts the inside of the landing pad and makes the flattening permanent.

They are melted, they will not change

[TastaturenAuslese]

So I got the landing pads in the mail today, and as of this writing, I am typing on a fully silenced HHKB Pro 2

Here's some things I learnt:
1. As derb2k2 warned me, be careful of the lube on the sliders. You may accidentally rub them off depending on the way you're handling the sliders.
2. One of the better ways to iron the landing pads flat is to put it against a chopping board on the floor (or alternatively use a hardwood floor - note: this might ruin your floor) and kind of sit/squat next to it and lean your body against your arm as if you were "chillin'". This was the easiest way I found to put as much weight as I could on the iron with as little effort as possible.
3. Try not to use any varnished wood. I learnt this the hard way and I know have a console table that has burn indents in the shape of landing pads.

It took quite a while and it was quite tedious, but the outcome is definitely worth it. One thing I noticed though is that, even with the landing pads ironed paper thin, I still lost a bit of tactility in the keys. This might just be my mind playing games, but regardless the tactility loss is negligible. It still feels great and it sounds great. No more clack, and all thack, and this far outweights the loss of tactility, if any.

Another theory I have for the loss of tactility could be the "fold" the comes from the landing pad hole being to small to stretch over the stem. The rim of the hole folds upward on the stem, and this may be catching on the case.

[TastaturenAuslese]

Also: Quick 10fastfingers result after the mod I don't know if it's just the excitement of all this thock, but I feel like without the clack, I'm less distracted doing the test.

[Cafeine]

So I got the landing pads in the mail today, and as of this writing, I am typing on a fully silenced HHKB Pro 2

Here's some things I learnt:
1. As derb2k2 warned me, be careful of the lube on the sliders. You may accidentally rub them off depending on the way you're handling the sliders.
2. One of the better ways to iron the landing pads flat is to put it against a chopping board on the floor (or alternatively use a hardwood floor - note: this might ruin your floor) and kind of sit/squat next to it and lean your body against your arm as if you were "chillin'". This was the easiest way I found to put as much weight as I could on the iron with as little effort as possible.
3. Try not to use any varnished wood. I learnt this the hard way and I know have a console table that has burn indents in the shape of landing pads.

It took quite a while and it was quite tedious, but the outcome is definitely worth it. One thing I noticed though is that, even with the landing pads ironed paper thin, I still lost a bit of tactility in the keys. This might just be my mind playing games, but regardless the tactility loss is negligible. It still feels great and it sounds great. No more clack, and all thack, and this far outweights the loss of tactility, if any.

Another theory I have for the loss of tactility could be the "fold" the comes from the landing pad hole being to small to stretch over the stem. The rim of the hole folds upward on the stem, and this may be catching on the case.

Agreed with everything. Btw I did **** up with the lub on one of my FC660C : what should I use to correct the situation? I have both lubs from EK but that's all. Any tips? :x

[Air tree]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

[SpAmRaY]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

Spicebar seemed to indicate that wasn't necessary.

[TastaturenAuslese]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

Spicebar seemed to indicate that wasn't necessary.

I can attest to that. I did it for some just to see if it would make a difference, and it's not noticeable at all.

[HalfSharkAlligator]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

I used fingernail clippers to cut the corners off which probably wasn't necessary but seemed worth preventing any rubbing. If I had an easy way of making the holes slightly larger I would have as that would prevent them from flipping up since the holes are a bit tight, but I just make sure that they are flat and flush down around the bottom and so far none have flipped up and caused any sticking and I've been using it for about four months now.

[Cafeine]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

I used fingernail clippers to cut the corners off which probably wasn't necessary but seemed worth preventing any rubbing. If I had an easy way of making the holes slightly larger I would have as that would prevent them from flipping up since the holes are a bit tight, but I just make sure that they are flat and flush down around the bottom and so far none have flipped up and caused any sticking and I've been using it for about four months now.

Yeah I did that too (the clipping), it's indeed pretty overkill, but you NEVER KNOW    I find the feeling a bit stiff now though, probably because of the lub i removed. :x  Or maybe I'm just spoiled by my HHKB Type-S :x

[awhitedev]

Have you guys tried trimming up the pads to more uniformly fit the stem? I'm going to do that, but I'm just waiting on my JT sliders to fully lube and silence my board, I'd rather not take it apart over, and over again...

I used fingernail clippers to cut the corners off which probably wasn't necessary but seemed worth preventing any rubbing. If I had an easy way of making the holes slightly larger I would have as that would prevent them from flipping up since the holes are a bit tight, but I just make sure that they are flat and flush down around the bottom and so far none have flipped up and caused any sticking and I've been using it for about four months now.

Yeah I did that too (the clipping), it's indeed pretty overkill, but you NEVER KNOW    I find the feeling a bit stiff now though, probably because of the lub i removed. :x  Or maybe I'm just spoiled by my HHKB Type-S :x

Just finished modding my Novatouch with ironed landing pads.... I found that the pads, once ironed, were not all exactly the same shape. Some of them melted more than others and were actually longer by a fraction of a mm. This caused them to rub in the housing ever so slightly. As a test... I pushed the slider into the housing and turned the plate back and forth... if the slider didn't freely move in the housing without me touching it then I knew I had an issue where it was rubbing. I did the same as you guys... I trimmed up the corners... I found that the issue was more on the sides with the feet where the rubber would hang over by just a little. Trimming up those corners prevented this issue and freed up the slider so it could move freely.

[Tyrosh22]

After dental band modding my Novatouch I began to notice some kind of rattling/chattering. Seemingly it came from the springs. I tried the foam pad mod (ironing the pads) but still the springs are audible.
I tried to record it: https://soundcloud.com/mecha-blog/topre-spring
Any idea how to solve this? Apart from that the mod is awesome. It hugely improves the sound of my NovaTouch - a board which desperately needs silencing!

[samsam]

Hi guys ,

First of thanks for the awesome mod instructions i have looked at it several times now.. (over the years hahahh)
At the moment i have the Leopold FC660M and the Kul ES-87 , i hope to exchange the KUL inside warranty and when i get the new one sell that and get a Leopold FC660C topre..
I love the sound of the silenced topre's but don't care for the layout of the HHKB2 or the big size of the Realforce. So that's why i decided to save up for my second Leopold ..

I just wanted to ask people here what they think about this idea i got from a sound specialist someone that build speakers for a living..
Also thought this could perhaps help some of us keyboard lovers 

The only problem i can foresee is the cutting of the material, it would be nice if i could simply stencil  little circles or something like that..
But i still have sum time to think about it..
Even if one would apply several layers of this material it would still be thiner than landing pads adding to the silence.
Also my KUL ES-87 has a similar product but thicker on the metal plate under the schift key..
Here is the link to a review with pics that show the material on the metal plate.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59116.0


i'm thinking of a way to apply this material called STP GOLD..
http://stp-distribution.com/en/products/premium/gold-aero

[Zoide]

Have you guys tried Hypersphere's silencing rings?

They cost quite a bit more than the ironed pads, but they are also way thinner and people say they provide the best silencing for Topre keyboards. They also come ready to install, no cutting or ironing required.

[Hyde]

Have you guys tried Hypersphere's silencing rings?

They cost quite a bit more than the ironed pads, but they are also way thinner and people say they provide the best silencing for Topre keyboards. They also come ready to install, no cutting or ironing required.

I've modded my Realforce with Hypersphere rings so I can share some thoughts, though I haven't tried ironing landing pads so I can't do direct comparison.

Hypersphere rings are pretty good, and like you said doesn't need any preparation and pretty much ready to go when you got it.

HOWEVER it still reduce travel by a tiny bit, maybe 0.5 mm.  You'll still feel it though luckily it doesn't effect the tactile point.

But overall I'd say I wish the reduction travel is less, but I'm still glad I modded my Realforce.  Like the OP said the silencing just make it feel more "higher quality". 

So definitely yes on silencing, as for which method is better.  Might still need more testing and comparison to find out.  Though I have a feeling that stock silencing might still be best.

[spiceBar]

Have you guys tried Hypersphere's silencing rings?

They cost quite a bit more than the ironed pads, but they are also way thinner and people say they provide the best silencing for Topre keyboards. They also come ready to install, no cutting or ironing required.

I've modded my Realforce with Hypersphere rings so I can share some thoughts, though I haven't tried ironing landing pads so I can't do direct comparison.

Hypersphere rings are pretty good, and like you said doesn't need any preparation and pretty much ready to go when you got it.

HOWEVER it still reduce travel by a tiny bit, maybe 0.5 mm.  You'll still feel it though luckily it doesn't effect the tactile point.

But overall I'd say I wish the reduction travel is less, but I'm still glad I modded my Realforce.  Like the OP said the silencing just make it feel more "higher quality". 

So definitely yes on silencing, as for which method is better.  Might still need more testing and comparison to find out.  Though I have a feeling that stock silencing might still be best.

A reduction of 0.5mm in travel is too much. When using non-ironed landing pads, the reduction in travel was more like 1mm, and the result was so bad I had to re-do everything.

It's actually the reason why I came up with the technique ironing the landing pads. It was a desperate attempt to fix the mess. I did not think it would work, but I had nothing to lose.

A first attempt was to make them thinner and I ended up somewhat below 0.5mm. It was still not good.

If you iron the landing pads correctly, that is as much as possible, they will be 0.1 to 0.2mm thick. Like a sheet of paper. There will be no reduction of travel, because the Topre switches have a little bit of play to begin with, and there will be no change in tactility.