[GB] RAMA M4-A [SHIPPED]

[jal]

But yes I'm all for exploring different materials, brass and bronze are pretty decent choices, relatively machinable and weighty. Copper is nice too but rather soft. Ti 6-4 is a pretty common alloy in my line of work, would like to see one eventually in a keycap 

If you really really want to make it unusual, make it out of a nickel superalloy like Inco 718 or Waspaloy, but they are a ***** to machine  , and I'd imagine the selection criteria for these alloys (mechanical strength and low creep at 1500K+) is probably not too relevant in a keycap context 

I've been playing with milling 6AI4V. (Not caps, this is a different silly hobby.) It is actually easier to work with than I thought it would be - the horror stories, I guess, primed me well. I want to try a Ti keycap soon.

I really don't like copper so far - I've only tried turning it, and only twice, but it seemed to find a way to bind up if given any opportunity. The lathe I was using was not the newest, best cared-for tool on the planet, but getting copper to behave was a bit beyond me on that attempt. (I'm still very new to machining, and this is very much not my day job.)

Are there any keycap templates out there that folks know of? I found a couple at Thingiverse and somewhere else I forget, but one just seemed very wrong, and I forget what was wrong with the other, but it didn't seem like it was going to work. Or actual, canonical specs for the the various rows in different profiles?

[KingRama]

I would like one but this is not a great time for me

But yes I'm all for exploring different materials, brass and bronze are pretty decent choices, relatively machinable and weighty. Copper is nice too but rather soft. Ti 6-4 is a pretty common alloy in my line of work, would like to see one eventually in a keycap 

If you really really want to make it unusual, make it out of a nickel superalloy like Inco 718 or Waspaloy, but they are a ***** to machine  , and I'd imagine the selection criteria for these alloys (mechanical strength and low creep at 1500K+) is probably not too relevant in a keycap context 

Understandable mate, no worries at all!

Oh damn bro! You know your materials What do you do for a living? O_o

I've actually been meaning to do something with Titanium for a while, would definitely be cool.

Hahahah superalloy Mate, if I can get it machined it must happen - I want a whole top row of every main element and nice alloys there is Would be cool seeing polished with it's natural color for sure!

[duynguyenle]

But yes I'm all for exploring different materials, brass and bronze are pretty decent choices, relatively machinable and weighty. Copper is nice too but rather soft. Ti 6-4 is a pretty common alloy in my line of work, would like to see one eventually in a keycap 

If you really really want to make it unusual, make it out of a nickel superalloy like Inco 718 or Waspaloy, but they are a ***** to machine  , and I'd imagine the selection criteria for these alloys (mechanical strength and low creep at 1500K+) is probably not too relevant in a keycap context 

I've been playing with milling 6AI4V. (Not caps, this is a different silly hobby.) It is actually easier to work with than I thought it would be - the horror stories, I guess, primed me well. I want to try a Ti keycap soon.

I really don't like copper so far - I've only tried turning it, and only twice, but it seemed to find a way to bind up if given any opportunity. The lathe I was using was not the newest, best cared-for tool on the planet, but getting copper to behave was a bit beyond me on that attempt. (I'm still very new to machining, and this is very much not my day job.)

Are there any keycap templates out there that folks know of? I found a couple at Thingiverse and somewhere else I forget, but one just seemed very wrong, and I forget what was wrong with the other, but it didn't seem like it was going to work. Or actual, canonical specs for the the various rows in different profiles?

I reckon the reason why you are havving issues with copper is probably due to its heat soak characteristics. You are probably experiencing some thermal distortion of the workpiece. Copper conducts heat very well but it's got a relatively low specific heat capacity, meaning that while it's excellent at conducting heat away from the heatsource (machining face), it also doesn't take much energy to raise the temperature of the whole piece. Tool steel and even high speed steel tools and bits have reduced performance at higher temperatures. Add that to the thermal distortion and expansion mismatch between the tool and the workpiece, and that means you will get rather inconsistent results without active cooling. I'd imagine giving it a rest between passes or running a coolant through the piece would help with machining (the latter suggestion is obviously more relevant if you're using a CNC mill  )

I would like one but this is not a great time for me

But yes I'm all for exploring different materials, brass and bronze are pretty decent choices, relatively machinable and weighty. Copper is nice too but rather soft. Ti 6-4 is a pretty common alloy in my line of work, would like to see one eventually in a keycap 

If you really really want to make it unusual, make it out of a nickel superalloy like Inco 718 or Waspaloy, but they are a ***** to machine  , and I'd imagine the selection criteria for these alloys (mechanical strength and low creep at 1500K+) is probably not too relevant in a keycap context 

Understandable mate, no worries at all!

Oh damn bro! You know your materials What do you do for a living? O_o

I've actually been meaning to do something with Titanium for a while, would definitely be cool.

Hahahah superalloy Mate, if I can get it machined it must happen - I want a whole top row of every main element and nice alloys there is Would be cool seeing polished with it's natural color for sure!

I work for a big English gas turbine manufacturer, we make jet engines  )

I'm not a materials specialist, but I know the broad strokes of what alloys we use in which section of the engine. I was just kidding about using nickel alloys for keycaps btw, probably not suitable at all for this purpose, but I think brass or Ti alloys would do nicely!

Shame I can't afford to get in on your steel cap GB at the moment, big life-related invoices I have to pay soon-ish, I probably will have to sit this one out and count my pennies for Wave R3 in Cherry profile 

[KingRama]

I work for a big English gas turbine manufacturer, we make jet engines  )

I'm not a materials specialist, but I know the broad strokes of what alloys we use in which section of the engine. I was just kidding about using nickel alloys for keycaps btw, probably not suitable at all for this purpose, but I think brass or Ti alloys would do nicely!

Shame I can't afford to get in on your steel cap GB at the moment, big life-related invoices I have to pay soon-ish, I probably will have to sit this one out and count my pennies for Wave R3 in Cherry profile 

Oh wow dude, that's awesome!! O_o

Yeah I'm with you on Brass and Ti, I think Tungsten would be cool too from its phenomenal density, it would probably straight actuate most switches on insertion haha.

Gotta pay the important stuff first man! All good

Going to borrow a cherry profile escape key off a mate and get to work on it ASAP

[KingRama]

Hi all!

Just give you guys an update, the prototype from my old supplier have come in! Note that I'm moving to a new manufacturer to produce the M4-A!

Here are a photos of the first prototype New prototype is coming in next week.






FEELS AMAZING TO HOLD. Can't wait to get these out once they all come in! Also looking forward to receiving the new prototypes from the new manufacturer

[duynguyenle]

Will the big padded case be included? 

[jal]

I really don't like copper so far - I've only tried turning it, and only twice, but it seemed to find a way to bind up if given any opportunity. The lathe I was using was not the newest,

I reckon the reason why you are havving issues with copper is probably due to its heat soak characteristics. You are probably experiencing some thermal distortion of the workpiece. Copper conducts heat very well but it's got a relatively low specific heat capacity, meaning that while it's excellent at conducting heat away from the heatsource (machining face), it also doesn't take much energy to raise the temperature of the whole piece. Tool steel and even high speed steel tools and bits have reduced performance at higher temperatures. Add that to the thermal distortion and expansion mismatch between the tool and the workpiece, and that means you will get rather inconsistent results without active cooling. I'd imagine giving it a rest between passes or running a coolant through the piece would help with machining (the latter suggestion is obviously more relevant if you're using a CNC mill  )

Sorry to be slow replying, I missed this at first.

I was using cooling. I suspect I my speed on the lathe was too slow on the second attempt (I think I corrected in the wrong direction), and then I ran out of stock, which ended the experiment.

In general, though, I'm pretty sure the problem was inexperienced operator on janky old machine.

Working on fixing the first. Fixing the second is going to have to wait until I'm not living in a second-floor residential walk-up. (Actually, I'm considering going for a mini-mill that wouldn't collapse the floor, but I want to actually run it before dropping that much money on a tool unrelated to my day job, so am working on that.)

Thanks for the tips!

[KingRama]

Will the big padded case be included? 

Hah! I would love to if i could ship that affordable 

The M4-A alone is pretty hefty! So cold to the touch too, I love it

[jal]

Here are a photos of the first prototype New prototype is coming in next week.

Show Image

I assume that came handcuffed to a quiet, serious man in sunglasses?

[duynguyenle]

I really don't like copper so far - I've only tried turning it, and only twice, but it seemed to find a way to bind up if given any opportunity. The lathe I was using was not the newest,

I reckon the reason why you are havving issues with copper is probably due to its heat soak characteristics. You are probably experiencing some thermal distortion of the workpiece. Copper conducts heat very well but it's got a relatively low specific heat capacity, meaning that while it's excellent at conducting heat away from the heatsource (machining face), it also doesn't take much energy to raise the temperature of the whole piece. Tool steel and even high speed steel tools and bits have reduced performance at higher temperatures. Add that to the thermal distortion and expansion mismatch between the tool and the workpiece, and that means you will get rather inconsistent results without active cooling. I'd imagine giving it a rest between passes or running a coolant through the piece would help with machining (the latter suggestion is obviously more relevant if you're using a CNC mill  )

Sorry to be slow replying, I missed this at first.

I was using cooling. I suspect I my speed on the lathe was too slow on the second attempt (I think I corrected in the wrong direction), and then I ran out of stock, which ended the experiment.

In general, though, I'm pretty sure the problem was inexperienced operator on janky old machine.

Working on fixing the first. Fixing the second is going to have to wait until I'm not living in a second-floor residential walk-up. (Actually, I'm considering going for a mini-mill that wouldn't collapse the floor, but I want to actually run it before dropping that much money on a tool unrelated to my day job, so am working on that.)

Thanks for the tips!

I've only got very limited machining experience too, haven't done anything since uni, wish I have the space/money/spare time for a proper CNC 

[KingRama]

Here are a photos of the first prototype New prototype is coming in next week.

Show Image

I assume that came handcuffed to a quiet, serious man in sunglasses?

HAHAHA yeah he dropped by in a convoy of G-Class Mercedes, dressed in a black suit and tie too  :)) :)) :cool:

I really don't like copper so far - I've only tried turning it, and only twice, but it seemed to find a way to bind up if given any opportunity. The lathe I was using was not the newest,

I reckon the reason why you are havving issues with copper is probably due to its heat soak characteristics. You are probably experiencing some thermal distortion of the workpiece. Copper conducts heat very well but it's got a relatively low specific heat capacity, meaning that while it's excellent at conducting heat away from the heatsource (machining face), it also doesn't take much energy to raise the temperature of the whole piece. Tool steel and even high speed steel tools and bits have reduced performance at higher temperatures. Add that to the thermal distortion and expansion mismatch between the tool and the workpiece, and that means you will get rather inconsistent results without active cooling. I'd imagine giving it a rest between passes or running a coolant through the piece would help with machining (the latter suggestion is obviously more relevant if you're using a CNC mill  ;D)

Sorry to be slow replying, I missed this at first.

I was using cooling. I suspect I my speed on the lathe was too slow on the second attempt (I think I corrected in the wrong direction), and then I ran out of stock, which ended the experiment.

In general, though, I'm pretty sure the problem was inexperienced operator on janky old machine.

Working on fixing the first. Fixing the second is going to have to wait until I'm not living in a second-floor residential walk-up. (Actually, I'm considering going for a mini-mill that wouldn't collapse the floor, but I want to actually run it before dropping that much money on a tool unrelated to my day job, so am working on that.)

Thanks for the tips!

I've only got very limited machining experience too, haven't done anything since uni, wish I have the space/money/spare time for a proper CNC  :D

"wish I have the space/money/spare time for a proper CNC" oh my don't we all :O

[OatmealFor3v3r]

Hi.  Possible to give some dates on the next milestones?  Would like a general idea on when to monitor the progress.  Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nathanrosspowell]

Will the big padded case be included? 

Hah! I would love to if i could ship that affordable 

The M4-A alone is pretty hefty! So cold to the touch too, I love it

Cold to the touch?

Awesome to see it in the flesh, even if it isn't the final proto!

[KingRama]

Hi.  Possible to give some dates on the next milestones?  Would like a general idea on when to monitor the progress.  Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Oatmeal, of course mate. Going to keep everyone updated when things happen too
So next milestone is receiving the sample from the new manufacturer which is looking like it will come in next week. And once I check off and approve the sample, production will begin.
Production will take around 2 weeks

Will the big padded case be included? 

Hah! I would love to if i could ship that affordable 

The M4-A alone is pretty hefty! So cold to the touch too, I love it

Cold to the touch?

Show Image

Awesome to see it in the flesh, even if it isn't the final proto!

Man, not to boast/brag or anything, but I gotta say that it feels amazing to hold, cannot wait for people to receive there's!
Upon inspecting the sample from the first manufacturer (current prototype) I keep seeing more and more shortcuts/irregularities.
I'm really fussy when it comes to details and I want everything I do to reflect my requirements and design philosophies and I want people to receive something I'd be happy with.
I'm confident the new manufacturer will be able to meet my tolerances and expectations - we shall see next week :)

BONUS:
Here is the Instagram story from the other day (so apologies for the poor quality and vertical video):

[swimmingbird]

Dat M4-A be fooken tight ja

[KingRama]

Dat M4-A be fooken tight ja

haha cheers bird <3 Come over to Melb and I'll show ya in person

[KingRama]

Okay guys, another update!

The second prototype/sample is almost completed, they have finished the top aluminium half (got space grey this time), they still have to make the base. They have already made a few bases, but I wasn't happy with the color - so I'm changing it to just standard white nylon as it's made from a better supplier and is typically much better quality.



And news from Machine Industries is that the PCB is all working, just have to fix up a pin error for the LEDs then I'll get those put into production!

All coming together now

[delivery]

Weewwwwww, nice!!

Sent from my SM-N9150 using Tapatalk

[xondat]

Okay guys, another update!

The second prototype/sample is almost completed, they have finished the top aluminium half (got space grey this time), they still have to make the base. They have already made a few bases, but I wasn't happy with the color - so I'm changing it to just standard white nylon as it's made from a better supplier and is typically much better quality.

Show Image

And news from Machine Industries is that the PCB is all working, just have to fix up a pin error for the LEDs then I'll get those put into production!

All coming together now :)

Looks so good, wish I could afford one :(

[duynguyenle]

Okay guys, another update!

The second prototype/sample is almost completed, they have finished the top aluminium half (got space grey this time), they still have to make the base. They have already made a few bases, but I wasn't happy with the color - so I'm changing it to just standard white nylon as it's made from a better supplier and is typically much better quality.

And news from Machine Industries is that the PCB is all working, just have to fix up a pin error for the LEDs then I'll get those put into production!

All coming together now

Now I'm really glad I got a few extra Wave cap in your last GB, they will go perfectly with this. I'm just gonna pretend that it was all planned all along 

[KingRama]

Weewwwwww, nice!!

Sent from my SM-N9150 using Tapatalk

Cheers mate!

Okay guys, another update!

The second prototype/sample is almost completed, they have finished the top aluminium half (got space grey this time), they still have to make the base. They have already made a few bases, but I wasn't happy with the color - so I'm changing it to just standard white nylon as it's made from a better supplier and is typically much better quality.

Show Image

And news from Machine Industries is that the PCB is all working, just have to fix up a pin error for the LEDs then I'll get those put into production!

All coming together now :)

Looks so good, wish I could afford one :(

Thanks Xondat! :D All good mate, next round perhaps :P

Okay guys, another update!

The second prototype/sample is almost completed, they have finished the top aluminium half (got space grey this time), they still have to make the base. They have already made a few bases, but I wasn't happy with the color - so I'm changing it to just standard white nylon as it's made from a better supplier and is typically much better quality.

And news from Machine Industries is that the PCB is all working, just have to fix up a pin error for the LEDs then I'll get those put into production!

All coming together now :)

Now I'm really glad I got a few extra Wave cap in your last GB, they will go perfectly with this. I'm just gonna pretend that it was all planned all along  :p

   

Oh man, yes please. That's gonna look dope! :D

[KingRama]

PCB order placed with manufacturer

[KingRama]

UPDATE:PCB's are now in production - I expect these to come in next week

Stainless Steel screws have been ordered - they're going to be slotted screws. I wanted to use something A E S T H E T I C like TORX security screws or pentalobe screws, but I figured that these will need to be assembled/disassembled for soldering switches etc. But you can always replace them with some nice hex/TORX screws yourself if you want to change them up a bit

The latest revision of the prototype also has a through hole in the base for pressing the reset button for programming.

hoping the latest prototype comes in this week

[nathanrosspowell]

UPDATE:PCB's are now in production - I expect these to come in next week

Stainless Steel screws have been ordered - they're going to be slotted screws. I wanted to use something A E S T H E T I C like TORX security screws or pentalobe screws, but I figured that these will need to be assembled/disassembled for soldering switches etc. But you can always replace them with some nice hex/TORX screws yourself if you want to change them up a bit

The latest revision of the prototype also has a through hole in the base for pressing the reset button for programming.

hoping the latest prototype comes in this week

Robertson screws all the way, because Canada!

[KingRama]

UPDATE:PCB's are now in production - I expect these to come in next week

Stainless Steel screws have been ordered - they're going to be slotted screws. I wanted to use something A E S T H E T I C like TORX security screws or pentalobe screws, but I figured that these will need to be assembled/disassembled for soldering switches etc. But you can always replace them with some nice hex/TORX screws yourself if you want to change them up a bit

The latest revision of the prototype also has a through hole in the base for pressing the reset button for programming.

hoping the latest prototype comes in this week

Robertson screws all the way, because Canada!

hahahaha, yours must now be blessed with Roberston screws to represent the Canadian M4!

[KingRama]

UPDATE!

Sample from the new manufacturer is being shipped, this includes 5 parts for me to check out Including some different colors for the base.

Unfortunately, this upcoming Friday is a public holiday in Australia So, it should be here the following Monday.

Once I'm happy with the sample, production will begin for the remainder of the units!

Bare PCB's have also been completed and are set to be assembled once components arrive, this will be after next week (as it is National Holiday in Asia). Expecting those to arrive the week after next.

Cheers

[jchan94]

UPDATE!

Sample from the new manufacturer is being shipped, this includes 5 parts for me to check out Including some different colors for the base.

Unfortunately, this upcoming Friday is a public holiday in Australia So, it should be here the following Monday.

Once I'm happy with the sample, production will begin for the remainder of the units!

Bare PCB's have also been completed and are set to be assembled once components arrive, this will be after next week (as it is National Holiday in Asia). Expecting those to arrive the week after next.

Cheers

HYPED. So excited to get this. Just realized all the components are included which makes me even more hyped.

[KingRama]

UPDATE!

Sample from the new manufacturer is being shipped, this includes 5 parts for me to check out Including some different colors for the base.

Unfortunately, this upcoming Friday is a public holiday in Australia So, it should be here the following Monday.

Once I'm happy with the sample, production will begin for the remainder of the units!

Bare PCB's have also been completed and are set to be assembled once components arrive, this will be after next week (as it is National Holiday in Asia). Expecting those to arrive the week after next.

Cheers

HYPED. So excited to get this. Just realized all the components are included which makes me even more hyped.

Thanks Jchan! Thought that might excite people

Sample from the new manufacturer came in, for the space grey. Much more impressed with how it came out from this new manufacturer. Feels a LOT better.

Potato pics (i'll take better photos later)


(temp screws)
(new USB hole)

[KingRama]

I'll upload a video later tonight

[delivery]

Cool Man,,, How soon can we expect to get the real thing?

[KingRama]

Cool Man,,, How soon can we expect to get the real thing?

Realistically, 3-4 weeks Will keep you updated throughout!

This sale has taken a little longer than usual as I have made some major design changes and moved suppliers.

These being:

 - Changes to the enclosure (deepened the switch tray, changed the USB hole), minor aesthetic changes.


 - PCB changed from through-hole components to SMD components. Now coming fully assembled (sans switches)

 - Changed manufacturers.

 - Waiting on manufacturing samples from both old supplier and new supplier.


The wait will be worth it! Apologies all for the delay.

[delivery]

No worries man!!! Eagerly waiting!! Cheers

Sent from my SM-N9150 using Tapatalk

[KingRama]

VIDEO. EXCUSE THE VOICE.

[Fictiouz]

Kicking myself in the ass for not ordering one of these...   

[KingRama]

Kicking myself in the ass for not ordering one of these...   

Aww All good man, hopefully it'll reemerge in the future

[Fictiouz]

Kicking myself in the ass for not ordering one of these...   

Aww All good man, hopefully it'll reemerge in the future

Hopefully! Looks great can't wait to see all the different caps people throw on them!

[ambalek]

VIDEO. EXCUSE THE VOICE.

This is cool -- the attention to detail is very impressive. It makes me wish more larger-sized cases and PCBs had this level of scrutiny (not that there aren't good products out there, it's just I've struggled to find an amazing 60% case).

[Data]

Wow, keep the pics and videos coming!

Love it.

[KingRama]

Hopefully! Looks great can't wait to see all the different caps people throw on them!

Likewise! I'm really excited to see how people dress this one up

VIDEO. EXCUSE THE VOICE.

This is cool -- the attention to detail is very impressive. It makes me wish more larger-sized cases and PCBs had this level of scrutiny (not that there aren't good products out there, it's just I've struggled to find an amazing 60% case).

 
Woah, thanks heaps mate! I really believe that every detail is super important, all the way down to the packaging (got some extras I've yet to reveal for that ), cannot wait for people to get this in their hands to experience it for themselves I will be doing some larger boards in the near future

Wow, keep the pics and videos coming!

Love it.

 

Thanks heaps Data, there's definitely a lot more to come!

[duynguyenle]

Enough teasing, when can we get these in our hands? 

[KingRama]

Enough teasing, when can we get these in our hands? 

Aiming for end of this month! Honestly super stoked to get these out to your hands mate. Going to really enjoy seeing what people do with it

[thaddeus]

Thanks for sharing the video with us -- getting me EVEN MORE HYPED for the shipment notification Nice work!

[KingRama]

Thanks for sharing the video with us -- getting me EVEN MORE HYPED for the shipment notification Nice work!

No worries! I'll take another when the PCB comes in and it's a full product Hopefully I won't have a raspy af voice that time around

[MikeTheTiger]

Wow the refinements you made really shine through in the video.  Can't wait for it to show up on my doorstep!!

[KingRama]

Wow the refinements you made really shine through in the video.  Can't wait for it to show up on my doorstep!!

Cheers Mike! Really can't wait for people to get them in the mail Super stoked

[KingRama]

Really sorry for the long wait with this project, it would have been shipped a lot earlier, but with the change of PCB, the new manufacturer and design changes really set everything back.

All of this was necessary to make sure that you guys will end up a much more polished and refined product!

Good news is that they are all going along well in production! Here is a crappy photo from the manufacturer Ready to go off to further processing!

[Data]

Stacks of fluffy metal pillows. 

[AceRuckus]

Can't wait, Rama!

[duynguyenle]

Really sorry for the long wait with this project, it would have been shipped a lot earlier, but with the change of PCB, the new manufacturer and design changes really set everything back.

All of this was necessary to make sure that you guys will end up a much more polished and refined product!

Good news is that they are all going along well in production! Here is a crappy photo from the manufacturer Ready to go off to further processing!

**breathing intensifies**

[KingRama]

Stacks of fluffy metal pillows. 

Heh, stacks of not so comfy metal pillows

Can't wait, Rama!

Same here mate!!

Really sorry for the long wait with this project, it would have been shipped a lot earlier, but with the change of PCB, the new manufacturer and design changes really set everything back.

All of this was necessary to make sure that you guys will end up a much more polished and refined product!

Good news is that they are all going along well in production! Here is a crappy photo from the manufacturer   Ready to go off to further processing!

**breathing intensifies**

**machining intensifies**