Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:40:38
Hi everyone,
I received the most recent round of prototyping today, and I'm thrilled to say the quality met my bar. While the prototype is not perfect, it gives me enough confidence to move forward!
The primary issue is that the color of this prototype is close to the desired navy blue color, but does not match it exactly. This will be fixed.
I'm not quite ready to release GB details just yet, but the planned Group Buy start is Monday May 6th, 5PM EDT, barring any setbacks. It will be run FCFS on cannonkeys.com. I'll release full details by Monday April 29th.
As a teaser, I've shown some of the previously unreleased weight design here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwsS4tUHehE/
And here's a few more photos:
(https://i.imgur.com/KJdU1JM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rFgLgJ1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tlaI48c.jpg)
Original Post
I'm Upas, the owner of the soon-to-be launching keyboard store Cannon Keys (more on that soon, keep your eyes open!) Some of you might know me from the Luddite group buy I ran earlier on reddit. I've been working on a custom keyboard for the past few months. I started it as a passion project for myself, but I've shown it to a few folks, and there seems to be interest, so I've decided to run an IC. I call it the Satisfaction 75. Everything from the PCB to case was designed by me.
(https://i.imgur.com/cyq4ofs.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/DukXXNK.png)
Renders: Tesletron
IC FORM: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfWTgOMbWs8jrn2GxJXsQXw7wFdeXDO3Gk6r4goVjbGYREM_w/viewform?usp=sf_link
Why the name? Well, I wanted to make a board I could use with GMK Calm Depths - I really wanted a Navy Blue keyboard case. As such, I thought I should lean nautical for the name of the keyboard. As my store's first group buy, I also wanted it to be at least a little related to "Cannons".
The Satisfaction was Pirate Captain Henry Morgan's (the same Captain Morgan from the rum) flagship. Pirates participated in naval warfare, so they used cannons. The curve in the back of the case is supposed to be reminiscent of a pirate ship. And throughout this whole development process, I've had a lot of satisfying moments. I hope to share that satisfying feeling with you!
(https://i.imgur.com/04PTYpB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9qjyr13.png)
In terms of the layout - I've noticed there aren't a ton of 75% customs for some reason compared to the number of 60, 65, and TKL layouts. Personally, I like having both the escape and ` key, but don't want a TKL, so I decided to make a 75%. The offset arrows are definitely inspired by the CA66 - I just think it looks great. The separation also makes the arrow keys easier to find. The OLED screen was inspired by the Hadron v3, and uses a lot of the great code that Ishtob wrote to make that a reality.
I'll start with a list of the planned features:
- OLED Screen
- Real time clock
- Rotary encoder with really nice knobs
- VIA Configurator Support and Powered by QMK
- STM32 ARM Microprocessor
- South facing backlight LEDs (single color)
- "Burger" o-ring top mount plate
- 6 degree slope
- Aluminum Top and Bottom, FR4 or Brass plate, Brass weight
- Right side USB-C
(https://i.imgur.com/azQgHbP.png)
Layouts:
- Default plate is a 75% version of ANSI, I'm sorry my EU friends, this board does not support ISO :(.
- Keycap compatiblity with most GMK base kits (Need 1.75 shift and 65% right side keys)
- PCB layout support: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2156e0dbbaffd0f243269cdfa357e1c9
- Default plate layout support: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/7eb4e525f055d49be0dce0d41753ffa8
- DXF files for plates will be released upon closing of the GB (Note - not fulfillment, but closing)
Colors:
- Aluminum case - Undecided, but navy blue will be one of them
- Brass - Should be available in a chrome/silver finish as well as your typical brass/gold finish. Not sure if I'll offer PVD, Sandblasting, etc. That is all to be determined.
- FR4 plates - Blue, Red, Green, White, Yellow, Black can all be done, with MOQ of 10.
I plan on offering extra PCBs and extra plates during the GB.
Now I'll elaborate on some of the key features:
- OLED Screen - There is an OLED screen that displays which mods are active, which layer is active, and what locks are set. It also shows what the rotary encoder will do, and provides clear feedback when you change the rotary's behavior. It also ties in heavily with the next feature:
- Real Time Clock - To my knowledge, no one has put a clock on their keyboard yet. While it's far from a game changing feature, the OLED display will also show the current date and time. Furthermore, it will persist even when you unplug your keyboard.
- Rotary encoder with nice knobs - This board will come with a rotary encoder which supports infinite turning and also has a press function. It can be toggled to control volume, screen brightness, backlight brightness, and mouse scrolling. It can be toggled by pressing Fn + The rotary encoder, and VIA support for encoder configuration is also planned.
- VIA - It's awesome, and this board will have it
- STM32 ARM Microprocessor - I chose to use the STM32F072CBT6 for this board. It has more flash space than the typical atmega chips used in most customs. Again, to my knowledge, no one has made a production board using this chip. It's definitely been a challenge to build out support, but I'm excited and satisfied with the feature set this board now has.
- "Burger" mount - The plate never has to touch the top case - it touches an o-ring instead. You can change the hardness of the o-rings and tighten/loosen some screws to slightly change the feel of your board.
Current Status:
The board is currently not feature complete. I've been making iterative design changes to the case to deliver the best product possible. At the same time, I've also been working on the QMK side of things, trying to finish all the features. VIA support isn't built out yet, and VIA itself doesn't support rotary encoders, but I am working on it.
I have more ideas to potentially implement as well.
I have run a single one-off manufacturing of an early design, which proved incredibly useful. Hopefully the next round will nail it, but I'll continue to iterate until it's what I would consider perfect.
Expected Price:
I can definitely keep this under $400. The cheaper the better. The price honestly depends on how many people are interested, but has a $400 ceiling for sure.
I have a ton of people to thank, without their help none of this would have been possible. I'm sure I'm missing a ton of people here as well:
- Ishtob - For the Hadronv3, the OLED idea and code, and just being incredibly friendly, supportive, and helpful all the time
- Tesletron - Holy crap these renders are amazing. Excited to be working with you!
- ai03 - For your help with PCB design, and your amazing guides
- hiney - BURGER MOUNT
- pngu - For showing me your examples and giving me the confidence to get my own one off
- yiancar - My brother in ARMs trying to get more different ARM chip support into QMK :)
- Wilba/Olivia - VIA is the greatest
- Peioiris- Thank you for showing me that the f0xx series is a viable option
- #kb-design - Too many people in here to name who I've received great help from
EDIT: (1/20/19)
Some updates:
- I'll probably be adding ISO support to the PCB - it will require considerable effort on my part, but it's worth it.
- A 3d printed 2nd round prototype will be arriving next week. I hope to have a build done with it next weekend, so you can see the updated design. A machined prototype will follow after, or another 3d printed one, if the design has to be revised considerably.
- I don't plan on adding hotswap support, per key RGB or RGB underglow, or adding an acrylic diffuser. I will add breakouts for RGB underglow so that you can add strips if you'd like. All those features will add cost, and I personally don't care about them, so I'm going to leave them out.
- Mill max sockets will be supported though, of course, so if you really wanted hotswap, you could get it that way.
- I don't plan on adding any further bottom row support. The WKL option right now is 1.5/1.5/7/1.5/1.5. It's symmetric and gets rid of the win key. Blockers are very unlikely
(1/30/19)
- The 3d printed prototype of the 2nd revision has arrived. More edits will be necessary, but we're addressing smaller and smaller issues
- I spent some time updating the PCB - it now supports ISO. There is still no plan to run ISO plates in the GB, but a universal DXF of the plate will be released
- Development on the case is kind of halted as it is Chinese New Year and factories are closed
(3/24/19) READ THIS UPDATE
Hello everyone,
I have some unfortunate news. This weekend, I received the two Satisfaction 75 prototypes. And unfortunately, they both fell far short of my quality bar. While the machining was decent for the most part, the finishing quality was quite poor, and frankly unacceptable.
This means two things are going to happen - 1st, this group buy is now going to be delayed again. I'm going to have to spend more of my own money to do a 3rd prototyping round with another factory. That being said, I am very happy with my decision to frontload all the spending and prototyping in order to execute a successful group buy, and I will continue to use this method until I'm confident that my selected manufacturer can deliver.
Second, I am now opening up an IC for my Brutal60 board, which will run before Satisfaction 75, so that I have time to work with a new factory on achieving the desired quality. I have already run a private group buy for the Brutal60, and already have a factory that can meet the quality bar, so as long as there is interest, the Group Buy for Brutal60 will start very soon. Keep your eyes open for a post on that soon!
But not all is lost! I still have two more functioning prototypes of the Satisfaction75, which I will be using to show off some of the cool features, and reveal some new information :). Here are some photos, where you can see some of the issues. I also wish I had a more fitting keycap set for this, but I had to use ePBT Greyscale, since it was all I had available.
(https://i.imgur.com/yzztyvK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/i37Ar0d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ydnt7FZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zpBB3kA.jpg)
Example of a few issues (there were many more):
(https://i.imgur.com/oyoWymx.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/e7cGXvI.png)
It's unfortunate that the group buy will be delayed, but please understand this is for the best. I want the Satisfaction 75 to be a satisfying experience when it is finally delivered, and I'm not willing to compromise on that.
P.S. If you haven't already, check out my store, https://cannonkeys.com ! We recently launched and hope we have something you might like!
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:40:50
There is an album of extra renders available here:
https://imgur.com/a/zx6fvwB
Thanks so much to Tesletron for these great renders!
I also created an early prototype. The design has changed a bunch since this point, but in case you want to see:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZIIBuAq.jpg)
(The knob now has a specific spot, a littler higher up, and is shaped to be knob specific. I wanted to make the knob optional at first, but it's just better as a builtin requirement).
(https://i.imgur.com/l62E9V5.jpg)
(There are blockers in the F row now instead of empty gaps)
(https://i.imgur.com/eo6CyJU.jpg)
(This plate was simply polished - there is no other finish on it)
(https://i.imgur.com/0SmaeHh.jpg)
Currently, the bottom is very simple. But I have something cool in mind. It'll go with the name of the board. It's Stainless Steel in this prototype, but could also be brass.
I made some videos with the first prototype:
Encoder behavior Demonstration 1:
OLED/Encoder Demonstration 2:
Typing sounds:
Here is the second prototype:
Under good light:
(https://i.imgur.com/MBK2dQZ.jpg)
(The gaps you see for the plate are just there for the 3d print)
Under not so good light:
(https://i.imgur.com/tSoUMXS.jpg)
Note the knob is off center. This is because I didn't measure properly and put the encoder footprint in the wrong spot on the PCB.
That has been fixed.
In terms of case design, we're pretty much finalized, other than minor details which will make the case easier to machine, and don't matter to the aesthetic.
Notice there's a gap for the knob now above the right side 3 extra keys. Also notice the added blockers on the F row.
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:40:58
Q: How hard would it be to program or get working? Do I need a good amount of knowledge in the area to do anything meaningful?
A: It will come with firmware programmed and working. You will not have to worry about progamming it, but it runs QMK so you can if you want to. If you want to change the keymap easily, you'll be able to use VIA to do so.
Q: Will the PCB support ISO so I can order my own custom plate?
A: UPDATE - The PCB now supports ISO, so you can order a custom plate.
Q: Any weights design in mind?
A: Yes, right now it's very simple, and it might stay that way, but depending on cost I have an idea I would like to try.
Q: Is the rotary encoder mandatory?
A: Yes. At first, I wanted it to be optional, but it looked bad, so now it's mandatory. Don't worry, it will be satisfying to use.
Q: Hotswap?
A: No
Q: What are the knobs gonna be?
A: Brass knobs in silver, black, and gold will be available. Plus maybe some special ones...
Q: What does the knob do?
A: The knob has multiple modes, and the mode is shown on the OLED screen
Fn+Knob press changes the knob mode
Here are the modes and their behaviors:
Abbreviation - Full name - Clockwise/Counterclockwise/Press
VOL - Volume - Volume Up/Down/Mute
MED - Media - Next Track/Previous Track/PlayPause
SCR - Scroll - Mouse Wheel Down/Mouse Wheel Up/Mouse Wheel Press
BRT - Brightness - Brightness Up/Brightness Down/Nothing
BKL - Backlight - Backlight Intensity Up/Down/Toggle breathing
CLK - Clock Set - Increase selected number (hour or minute)/Decrease selected number (hour or minute)/Toggle hour or minute (Clock gets saved when you leave this mode)
The default knob behavior can be set in VIA
Q: Can you add X feature to the knob?
A: I will add suggested features that I find useful, but only if they don't require any additional software on the computer. (This means, no notifications, no volume meter, etc. - if you're unsure, feel free to ask)
Q: Can I get the OLED screen in my favorite color?
A: The OLED screen will be offered in white and blue only.
Q: Will you add bluetooth?
A: There are no plans to add bluetooth.
Q: Will you offer aluminum plates?
A: The current plan is just to offer brass and FR4, plate files will be released for those who want others.
Q: Why did you add a cut under spacebar on the plate?
A: I wanted the force distribution to be even under the spacebar so regardless of where you hit it, it would sound the same.
Q: Do you have those cool displacement graphs for your plate like Windeh?
A: Yes, they are here: https://imgur.com/a/E2ctUR3 . This is super imperfect because the switches and PCB do affect a lot, and this is done using consistent force across the whole plate, which isn't really how you transfer force to keyboards. And I don't think they mean much. But if you want them, here they are.
Q: What about blockers?
A: The 1.5/1.5/7/1.5/1.5 layout is supposed to be for WKL. I'm not going to offer blockers, it will make the GB more expensive and more complicated.
Post by: Lbibass on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:43:32
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:43:56
Post by: dimo on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:46:23
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:46:55
How hard would it be to program or get working? Do I need a good amount of knowledge in the area to do anything meaningful?
It will come with firmware programmed and working. You will not have to worry about it.
If you want to change the keymap, you can use VIA to do so.
Post by: dimo on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:47:35
How hard would it be to program or get working? Do I need a good amount of knowledge in the area to do anything meaningful?
It will come with firmware programmed and working. You will not have to worry about it.
If you want to change the keymap, you can use VIA to do so.
That sounds great! I’ll definitely be in then, this is really cool.
Post by: packman86 on Sat, 19 January 2019, 11:52:54
Add WKL blockers and I am very interested!
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:01:02
This looks really nice!
Add WKL blockers and I am very interested!
I don't have blockers planned - you'd really only get one on the left side - but if there is a lot of demand, I might consider it.
Post by: clik_clak on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:03:03
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:03:56
Very cool design! Only thing I would change is blockers to separate the F row. The spacing in between is weird.
That is fixed in the next revision of the prototype. The renders show the up to date design. The prototype was an old version.
Post by: tiydal on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:05:56
Post by: tex_live_utility on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:10:13
Post by: gideon on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:13:20
Post by: _ODIN_ on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:18:16
Gesendet von meinem H8416 mit Tapatalk
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:22:56
Very interesting design. Would love to see a wkl blocker too and I am not sure about the rotary. Unless it can be implemented flawlessly, it may do more harm than good. If you can make it optional that would be best. Any weights design in mind ?
At this point, the rotary is going to be mandatory. It will be implemented in a very satisfying way.
When my 3d printed 2nd prototype arrives, I will try to take a video showing it off.
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:26:36
Will the PCB support ISO so I can order my own custom plate?
Gesendet von meinem H8416 mit Tapatalk
At the moment, the PCB doesn't support ISO.
I can add ISO support to the PCB if there is enough demand.
Post by: equalunique on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:33:32
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
Post by: jackedhardwarejunkie on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:36:20
Post by: clik_clak on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:36:55
Very interesting design. Would love to see a wkl blocker too and I am not sure about the rotary. Unless it can be implemented flawlessly, it may do more harm than good. If you can make it optional that would be best. Any weights design in mind ?
At this point, the rotary is going to be mandatory. It will be implemented in a very satisfying way.
When my 3d printed 2nd prototype arrives, I will try to take a video showing it off.
Awesome! The renders look great!
Any chance to add hotswap to pcb as well?
Post by: funderburker on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:43:16
Post by: phorx on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:54:19
Post by: Vigrith on Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:57:05
Post by: Anaconda on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:17:07
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:18:17
Please just keep THESE LAYOUTS! (1.25x3 +6.25). To bad for iso people, but i would like to keep it ANSI, i don't like cheese plates.
Brass would be appreciated! Brass pvd Knob? Brass plate option pls
Post by: redbanshee on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:19:46
Post by: vpr on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:24:04
Post by: vosechu on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:27:00
Also, this is beautiful! Well done!
Post by: LeoShi on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:33:10
Post by: hndle on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:35:00
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:36:42
Please tell me you are planning on sourcing a compass artisan for the rotary knob!
Also, this is beautiful! Well done!
please this
Post by: GSV-CargoCult on Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:50:01
Post by: travwal on Sat, 19 January 2019, 14:00:36
Post by: Anakey on Sat, 19 January 2019, 14:16:41
Post by: gideon on Sat, 19 January 2019, 15:06:54
Post by: Xynerorias on Sat, 19 January 2019, 15:30:07
Post by: dhb82 on Sat, 19 January 2019, 15:49:42
Post by: qq on Sat, 19 January 2019, 16:35:59
Would it be an option for a custom (brass/alu?) badge instead of an OLED screen? Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the ability to customise the screen but concern its replaceability.
I'm not a hardware guy, but to have a real-time clock, I assume you have to have the battery (like CR2032), right?
Have you considered the usb port cutout being tighter?
Post by: NRbigfoot on Sat, 19 January 2019, 16:38:57
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 16:54:52
This board has my satisfaction of both design and hardware specs :eek:.
Would it be an option for a custom (brass/alu?) badge instead of an OLED screen? Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the ability to customise the screen but concern its replaceability.
I'm not a hardware guy, but to have a real-time clock, I assume you have to have the battery (like CR2032), right?
Have you considered the usb port cutout being tighter?
Thank you :)
A badge could be an option, I guess. I wasn't planning on it, so I think OLED is the way to go.
In terms of replacability, the OLED screen is a $2 component with 4 leads. Its quite easy to desolder and put in a new one. I wouldn't be so worried about it.
There is a battery - it's a CR1025.
The USB port could be tighter if it extruded from the PCB. But I really wanted the port to be deep, as if a cannon could come out of it, following the pirate ship theme.
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 16:56:31
Please tell me you are planning on sourcing a compass artisan for the rotary knob!
Also, this is beautiful! Well done!
Compass artisan knob you say... 🤔
Post by: Owl- on Sat, 19 January 2019, 17:03:12
Apart from that, I'd seriously love and pray if you would support this bottom layout!
(https://i.imgur.com/j5NtPY0.png)
I'm all about uniformity with the bottom row. This is also a great option for anyone looking out for WKL with blockers.
Post by: rondg on Sat, 19 January 2019, 17:19:35
Post by: qq on Sat, 19 January 2019, 17:22:43
This board has my satisfaction of both design and hardware specs :eek:.
Would it be an option for a custom (brass/alu?) badge instead of an OLED screen? Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the ability to customise the screen but concern its replaceability.
I'm not a hardware guy, but to have a real-time clock, I assume you have to have the battery (like CR2032), right?
Have you considered the usb port cutout being tighter?
Thank you :)
A badge could be an option, I guess. I wasn't planning on it, so I think OLED is the way to go.
In terms of replacability, the OLED screen is a $2 component with 4 leads. Its quite easy to desolder and put in a new one. I wouldn't be so worried about it.
There is a battery - it's a CR1025.
The USB port could be tighter if it extruded from the PCB. But I really wanted the port to be deep, as if a cannon could come out of it, following the pirate ship theme.
:thumb:
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 17:39:16
It looks fantastic. For the OLED screen, please make it raised higher on the PCB so it matches or looks close to the render. The prototype makes the screen look kind of like a deep well IMO.
Apart from that, I'd seriously love and pray if you would support this bottom layout!Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/j5NtPY0.png)
I'm all about uniformity with the bottom row. This is also a great option for anyone looking out for WKL with blockers.
The OLED screen will be higher on the PCB - about 2 mm from the top of the case. It is slightly inset, but that's by design. I'm continuing to refine the design to make the OLED work in a satisfying way.
In terms of more layouts, I think the only one I am planning on adding is ISO. If its easy to add the additional one, though, I can do it.
Will the LCD always be lit? I think it should have a sleep mode or something like that...
It has a sleep mode. It's always on when you are using the keyboard, but goes to sleep on idle.
Post by: MoarCoffeePlzzz on Sat, 19 January 2019, 18:25:19
Post by: Starston3 on Sat, 19 January 2019, 18:49:39
Post by: swangful on Sat, 19 January 2019, 19:02:35
Post by: rondg on Sat, 19 January 2019, 19:05:33
But as it is, still awesome. ;D
Post by: otanishock on Sat, 19 January 2019, 19:06:31
Edit: Is the knob be fully programmable via QMK as well?
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 19 January 2019, 19:14:02
This board has my satisfaction of both design and hardware specs :eek:.
Would it be an option for a custom (brass/alu?) badge instead of an OLED screen? Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the ability to customise the screen but concern its replaceability.
I'm not a hardware guy, but to have a real-time clock, I assume you have to have the battery (like CR2032), right?
Have you considered the usb port cutout being tighter?
Thank you :)
A badge could be an option, I guess. I wasn't planning on it, so I think OLED is the way to go.
In terms of replacability, the OLED screen is a $2 component with 4 leads. Its quite easy to desolder and put in a new one. I wouldn't be so worried about it.
There is a battery - it's a CR1025.
The USB port could be tighter if it extruded from the PCB. But I really wanted the port to be deep, as if a cannon could come out of it, following the pirate ship theme.
That could be an option. I would probably buy both, the standard one wtih OLED and the extra brass badge, especially if there would be custom engrave on it! :)
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 20:06:03
Great design. Would love to see and try out the prototype at the next Boston meetup!
Edit: Is the knob be fully programmable via QMK as well?
It will be at the next Boston meet up :)
The knob will be fully programmable in QMK. The default behavior for the button will be configurable in VIA.
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 20:07:25
This is one of those boards that could be truly amazing.. The fine tuned things like the logo and the rotary knobs are going to make it or break it for me.. Will there be more iterations of prototyping? Will you be prototyping the knobs?
The Cannon logo is going to stay - unfortunately that's something I'm not willing to take off, and I think it's subtle enough to not be a big deal. It's not an audacious branding like some of the customs I've seen. On top of that, I think it works well with the design of the board. I can elaborate if pressed.
I will continue to iterate until I think the design is perfect. I've purchased a ton of Knobs to see which ones work best, and will also likely prototype some custom knobs.
Post by: Walkerstop on Sat, 19 January 2019, 20:40:14
Post by: vikipedeer on Sat, 19 January 2019, 20:55:01
naiseeee
Post by: kokugatsu on Sat, 19 January 2019, 21:01:59
Post by: mrpetrov on Sat, 19 January 2019, 21:07:01
Clock/screen is a killer app for me. Rotary knob is a killer app for me too.
The little canon logo is gorgeous. I have a semi.
Would it be possible to program the rotary knob to be linked to pageup/pagedn depending on the direction of rotation? That'd be so cool and precise way to move up/down when browsing long documents/data sets (which I do a lot of personally, sadly - with both hands on keyboard, it's a pain moving right hand back to mouse scroll wheel).
Post by: equalunique on Sat, 19 January 2019, 21:51:30
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
Post by: upas on Sat, 19 January 2019, 22:00:11
So in! Great work upas!
Clock/screen is a killer app for me. Rotary knob is a killer app for me too.
The little canon logo is gorgeous. I have a semi.
Would it be possible to program the rotary knob to be linked to pageup/pagedn depending on the direction of rotation? That'd be so cool and precise way to move up/down when browsing long documents/data sets (which I do a lot of personally, sadly - with both hands on keyboard, it's a pain moving right hand back to mouse scroll wheel).
I've spent some of yesterday and today writing code for the knob.
Fn+Knob press changes the knob mode
Here are the modes and their behaviors:
Abbreviation - Full name - Clockwise/Counterclockwise/Press
VOL - Volume - Volume Up/Down/Mute
MED - Media - Next Track/Previous Track/PlayPause
SCR - Scroll - Mouse Wheel Down/Mouse Wheel Up/Mouse Wheel Press
BRT - Brightness - Brightness Up/Brightness Down/Nothing
BKL - Backlight - Backlight Intensity Up/Down/Toggle breathing
CLK - Clock Set - Increase selected number (hour or minute)/Decrease selected number (hour or minute)/Toggle hour or minute (Clock gets saved when you leave this mode)
Post by: ihalatch on Sat, 19 January 2019, 22:35:10
This looks really nice!
Add WKL blockers and I am very interested!
+1
Post by: Rensuya on Sat, 19 January 2019, 22:55:14
Also, +1 for the screen not always being lit up. Maybe a sleep mode :thumb:
Post by: Dovan1405 on Sat, 19 January 2019, 23:24:11
Ill go with the 1.5,1.5,7,1.5,1.5
Overall this board is drop dead gorgeous. That weight look is stunning and clean as well please keep it that way :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: ian13 on Sat, 19 January 2019, 23:57:04
Post by: gnhuy91 on Sat, 19 January 2019, 23:58:53
also i kinda want to opt out for OLED and slab a brass tag on its place
Post by: Dovan1405 on Sun, 20 January 2019, 01:25:22
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Post by: Puddsy on Sun, 20 January 2019, 01:28:39
i have no idea what the implementation of this is, and the last time something like this was tried it tanked horribly
Post by: RETURNISO on Sun, 20 January 2019, 07:23:31
Got all of the them VERY Satisfying features ^-^
75% layout ( best workstation layout )
V.I.A
Clean design :thumb:
OLED Screen ( YEEES ) Layer indication at is best!!
The Knob ( really nice for timeline scroll in editing software ) + The STD features
I would not mind paying a premium if the OLED and Knob wheel is executed well.
+1 ISO enabled PCB ( I don't think it's a "cheeeese plate" just by adding ISO enter and split left shift to the PCB )
+1 ISO Didicated plate ( To avoid the universal layouts and ANSI users frustrattion ) :))
Looking at the the knob rotator on the render, is it not slightly a little too big to interfere with print screen on your fingers when "knobing the wheel" ?
On the proto, the OLED is countersunk, any plans for a tinted glass insert?
Really nice work and great features, definitely in, if you add ISO :cool:
Post by: ptiede on Sun, 20 January 2019, 07:27:20
Post by: upas on Sun, 20 January 2019, 09:21:32
video demonstration and full tutorial pls
i have no idea what the implementation of this is, and the last time something like this was tried it tanked horribly
Still definitely a work in progress. Sorry for the weird vertical video, I'm new to YouTube and don't know how to fix it:
Post by: RETURNISO on Sun, 20 January 2019, 09:28:38
video demonstration and full tutorial pls
i have no idea what the implementation of this is, and the last time something like this was tried it tanked horribly
Still definitely a work in progress. Sorry for the weird vertical video, I'm new to YouTube and don't know how to fix it:
Nice 👌 just quick, maybe when in the brightness settings, a press could choose screen color mode? Win have a night light mode.
Post by: upas on Sun, 20 January 2019, 09:32:28
Shoutout Chris Swires for index finger spacebar.
Post by: dyrdevil on Sun, 20 January 2019, 12:07:41
A couple questions, sorry for my lack of knowledge about something like this:
1) are the knob functions editable/programmable at all by the end user?
2) is it possible to have a knob with a larger/slower "bump" when rotating? During the media selection setting, it seems it'd be easy to have more "bumps" than you want, possible decreasing that satisfaction
I'm sure you know this, but it seems to me that this board will live and die on how irresistible the knob and OLED screen are. I'd say, take whatever time you need to get those things as right as possible, otherwise it might seem a bit gimmicky.
I apologize if I seem condescending at all - I think this is one of the coolest things I've seen!
Post by: upas on Sun, 20 January 2019, 12:34:31
This is pretty darn cool. Congrats!
A couple questions, sorry for my lack of knowledge about something like this:
1) are the knob functions editable/programmable at all by the end user?
2) is it possible to have a knob with a larger/slower "bump" when rotating? During the media selection setting, it seems it'd be easy to have more "bumps" than you want, possible decreasing that satisfaction
I'm sure you know this, but it seems to me that this board will live and die on how irresistible the knob and OLED screen are. I'd say, take whatever time you need to get those things as right as possible, otherwise it might seem a bit gimmicky.
I apologize if I seem condescending at all - I think this is one of the coolest things I've seen!
1) A custom mode sounds pretty cool - I wonder if I can get that supported in VIA
2) This is something that was mentioned to me in discord. QMK doesn't support that right now, but I think I can absolutely implement something like that. At the very least, we'll be able to change the number of "bumps" per setting. What would really be cool would be an acceleration mode - the more you turn the faster you go. But that's pretty difficult to implement :)
I totally agree with you about the OLED and Knob needing to be extremely satisfying. I'm open to all suggestions to increase the satisfaction.
Post by: phorx on Sun, 20 January 2019, 12:57:24
Post by: oh_chesteroni on Sun, 20 January 2019, 13:07:19
This is pretty darn cool. Congrats!
A couple questions, sorry for my lack of knowledge about something like this:
1) are the knob functions editable/programmable at all by the end user?
2) is it possible to have a knob with a larger/slower "bump" when rotating? During the media selection setting, it seems it'd be easy to have more "bumps" than you want, possible decreasing that satisfaction
I'm sure you know this, but it seems to me that this board will live and die on how irresistible the knob and OLED screen are. I'd say, take whatever time you need to get those things as right as possible, otherwise it might seem a bit gimmicky.
I apologize if I seem condescending at all - I think this is one of the coolest things I've seen!
1) A custom mode sounds pretty cool - I wonder if I can get that supported in VIA
2) This is something that was mentioned to me in discord. QMK doesn't support that right now, but I think I can absolutely implement something like that. At the very least, we'll be able to change the number of "bumps" per setting. What would really be cool would be an acceleration mode - the more you turn the faster you go. But that's pretty difficult to implement :)
I totally agree with you about the OLED and Knob needing to be extremely satisfying. I'm open to all suggestions to increase the satisfaction.
I assumed the rotary functions could be programmed to anything that is supported by qmk? Your comment, upas, seems to suggest the knob will only have the features you have already mentioned. Or were you only referring to custom programmability through VIA by the end user?
Post by: JSaintS on Sun, 20 January 2019, 14:38:30
Post by: Poesjuh on Sun, 20 January 2019, 15:41:52
And for the scroll wheel function, click to swap between vertical and horizontal scrolling.
Post by: upas on Sun, 20 January 2019, 15:50:53
Any possibility of a rotary encoder that is silent?
If you find a part, then you can totally put a silent rotary encoder in. The one provided with the kit will not be silent.
This is for my sanity :) More options = more difficult fulfillment.
This is pretty darn cool. Congrats!
A couple questions, sorry for my lack of knowledge about something like this:
1) are the knob functions editable/programmable at all by the end user?
2) is it possible to have a knob with a larger/slower "bump" when rotating? During the media selection setting, it seems it'd be easy to have more "bumps" than you want, possible decreasing that satisfaction
I'm sure you know this, but it seems to me that this board will live and die on how irresistible the knob and OLED screen are. I'd say, take whatever time you need to get those things as right as possible, otherwise it might seem a bit gimmicky.
I apologize if I seem condescending at all - I think this is one of the coolest things I've seen!
1) A custom mode sounds pretty cool - I wonder if I can get that supported in VIA
2) This is something that was mentioned to me in discord. QMK doesn't support that right now, but I think I can absolutely implement something like that. At the very least, we'll be able to change the number of "bumps" per setting. What would really be cool would be an acceleration mode - the more you turn the faster you go. But that's pretty difficult to implement :)
I totally agree with you about the OLED and Knob needing to be extremely satisfying. I'm open to all suggestions to increase the satisfaction.
I assumed the rotary functions could be programmed to anything that is supported by qmk? Your comment, upas, seems to suggest the knob will only have the features you have already mentioned. Or were you only referring to custom programmability through VIA by the end user?
The firmware for the keyboard is QMK. You can always change how the encoder works if you write the code in QMK.
A lot of people don't want to learn how to do that, and that's what VIA is for.
If you know C and can hack around QMK, anything is possible.
Post by: vpr on Sun, 20 January 2019, 16:11:31
video demonstration and full tutorial pls
i have no idea what the implementation of this is, and the last time something like this was tried it tanked horribly
Still definitely a work in progress. Sorry for the weird vertical video, I'm new to YouTube and don't know how to fix it:
Possible to make the OLED screen show the volume percentage as it's being changed? Maybe have the OLED screen switch to a meter w/ percentage then switch back after a few seconds of inactivity? Would be nice if I have music or something playing, monitors have turned off due to inactivity and I just want to adjust the volume. Could just turn the knob and look at the OLED screen instead of waking the monitors.
Post by: KaosJ on Sun, 20 January 2019, 16:38:28
video demonstration and full tutorial pls
i have no idea what the implementation of this is, and the last time something like this was tried it tanked horribly
Still definitely a work in progress. Sorry for the weird vertical video, I'm new to YouTube and don't know how to fix it:
Can the OLED light be white as well?
Post by: upas on Sun, 20 January 2019, 17:00:11
Possible to make the OLED screen show the volume percentage as it's being changed? Maybe have the OLED screen switch to a meter w/ percentage then switch back after a few seconds of inactivity? Would be nice if I have music or something playing, monitors have turned off due to inactivity and I just want to adjust the volume. Could just turn the knob and look at the OLED screen instead of waking the monitors.
In order to do this, we'd have to have custom software running on the computer. There are only three pieces of information sent to keyboards without extra software - those are Caps Lock state, Num lock state, and Scroll Lock state.
As such, this isn't something I plan on adding, but nothing is preventing someone else from writing the integration.
Can the OLED light be white as well?
Yep! There will be 2 options for OLED - white and blue.
Post by: Pennywise359 on Sun, 20 January 2019, 20:35:07
Post by: lakeboredom on Mon, 21 January 2019, 06:14:18
Post by: fcnchuck on Mon, 21 January 2019, 10:32:23
Post by: mrkantz on Mon, 21 January 2019, 10:44:18
Post by: booleanjulien on Mon, 21 January 2019, 11:34:57
I'd love to have the knob on the left, so I won't have to take my hand off the mouse.
Seems like it's too late for this, but this sounds amazing to me.
Post by: Grumms on Mon, 21 January 2019, 12:40:42
Post by: phorx on Mon, 21 January 2019, 13:28:25
Post by: farmisen on Mon, 21 January 2019, 16:18:54
I'd like a mode where the wheel operates volume and pushing it down toggles mute for the microphone, would be great for games with voice comms, streaming, or just skype calls for work.
+1
Post by: tex_live_utility on Mon, 21 January 2019, 16:20:35
I'd like a mode where the wheel operates volume and pushing it down toggles mute for the microphone, would be great for games with voice comms, streaming, or just skype calls for work.
+1
Is there an HID scancode that toggles microphone mute? Might have to be something you do on the OS side.
Post by: Zytyx on Mon, 21 January 2019, 17:39:12
Post by: NinjaSquirrel21 on Mon, 21 January 2019, 19:03:21
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Post by: tunadesu on Mon, 21 January 2019, 19:48:23
Great design. Would love to see and try out the prototype at the next Boston meetup!
Edit: Is the knob be fully programmable via QMK as well?
It will be at the next Boston meet up :)
The knob will be fully programmable in QMK. The default behavior for the button will be configurable in VIA.
Boston meetup!? Nice. When is that do you know? I can't miss this
Post by: alphabirth on Tue, 22 January 2019, 15:04:25
Post by: Manabuns on Tue, 22 January 2019, 19:31:58
Post by: Sleepy_Badger on Tue, 22 January 2019, 20:16:47
Post by: upas on Tue, 22 January 2019, 21:59:57
I'd like a mode where the wheel operates volume and pushing it down toggles mute for the microphone, would be great for games with voice comms, streaming, or just skype calls for work.
+1
Is there an HID scancode that toggles microphone mute? Might have to be something you do on the OS side.
Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, there isnt' a default code for microphone mute or anything like that. You'd have to setup a hotkey.
I don't think those will be configurable - my plan right now is that there will be two custom encoder modes you can configure in VIA, and you can also set your default encoder mode in VIA.
Using the custom modes, you could make the press send whatever you want.
I still want a good press behavior for both the scrolling and brightness modes - nothing feasible has come up yet.
Great design. Would love to see and try out the prototype at the next Boston meetup!
Edit: Is the knob be fully programmable via QMK as well?
It will be at the next Boston meet up :)
The knob will be fully programmable in QMK. The default behavior for the button will be configurable in VIA.
Boston meetup!? Nice. When is that do you know? I can't miss this
I'm supposed to be planning that as well! I posted an IC, please fill it out before February!
https://goo.gl/forms/fcHW2M0YqNaY3VDs2
hey im really liking this concept. Do you have a ballpark idea on the cost? I plan to enter quite a few things this spring so just trying to see what my budget is and what not, but dope design cant wait to own it hopefully ;D
The cost will be $400 max. Not sure about specifics any further than that.
Post by: upas on Tue, 22 January 2019, 22:01:31
Post by: AgonizedFish on Wed, 23 January 2019, 09:12:44
Post by: Sleepy_Badger on Wed, 23 January 2019, 22:11:43
hey im really liking this concept. Do you have a ballpark idea on the cost? I plan to enter quite a few things this spring so just trying to see what my budget is and what not, but dope design cant wait to own it hopefully ;D
The cost will be $400 max. Not sure about specifics any further than that.
Thanks!! :D
Post by: audax989 on Wed, 23 January 2019, 22:36:33
Post by: hndle on Thu, 24 January 2019, 09:57:44
Post by: japancakes on Thu, 24 January 2019, 17:57:24
Post by: bball2 on Thu, 24 January 2019, 23:43:39
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Sat, 26 January 2019, 19:54:29
For brightness rotary encoder function: Is this the screeen brightness of the PC, or the OLED brightness level? It would be nice to have the ability to change the brightness of the OLED; definitely wouldn't want an overly bright screen on my keyboard at all times when in use. Or just the option to turn OLED off, or have it off after a few seconds of no rotary encoder use, turn OLED back on when using rotary encoder etc.
Also, would it be possible to bevel/chamfer the edges that go down into the OLED screen to reduce the reflections off of the sides of the OLED hole?
Post by: upas on Sun, 27 January 2019, 09:55:17
Interested depending on final product and cost.
For brightness rotary encoder function: Is this the screeen brightness of the PC, or the OLED brightness level? It would be nice to have the ability to change the brightness of the OLED; definitely wouldn't want an overly bright screen on my keyboard at all times when in use. Or just the option to turn OLED off, or have it off after a few seconds of no rotary encoder use, turn OLED back on when using rotary encoder etc.
Also, would it be possible to bevel/chamfer the edges that go down into the OLED screen to reduce the reflections off of the sides of the OLED hole?
The OLED does have a way to control "contrast" which is roughly correlated to brightness. I have not tried implementing code to change this, but quick searching shows that it might not make much of a difference. I'm using an existing OLED breakout for this keyboard, so I don't have full control of the OLED schematic, but it was a way to deliver this without spending months more of development, and I thought it was a good tradeoff to make.
In terms of the bevel/chamfer, the most recent version of the design does include one because I noticed this exact issue :)
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Sun, 27 January 2019, 22:06:59
More ideas on OLED (just more detailed of what I was mentioning above, understood brightness/contrast is likely a no-go):
Auto-off function after set time of no rotary-encoder input detected (has a real-time clock after all :-). Auto-on when rotary-encoder input detected resetting auto-off function timer whenever rotary input is detected.
Default to just showing clock on entire OLED screen (nothing else) when no rotary input detected for set amount of time. When rotary input is detected, show pertinent info for current function.
Ability to turn off OLED when unwanted/unneeded via the rotary-encoder menu system. When OLED is off, just push rotary button to turn it back on and goes into whatever function was set to defualt.
Also ability to enable/disable above auto functions.
Considering Knob and case. I didn't find a mention... Will the case be shaped around the contour of a round knob for the hole? Or will it remain a square, well rectangle for entire vertical column? It would look much more polished, and I'd be willing to pay a little more, if it's a little more, to have it looking like it belongs there instead of a round peg into a square hole ;D
Post by: lac29 on Mon, 28 January 2019, 11:11:21
2) I mentioned this before to you on reddit but I think it does make sense if possible to have the knob be stepped or smooth when rotated (ex Logitech mice scroll wheel allow you to switch between the two).
Post by: RamenTechMech on Mon, 28 January 2019, 11:18:09
2) I mentioned this before to you on reddit but I think it does make sense if possible to have the knob be stepped or smooth when rotated (ex Logitech mice scroll wheel allow you to switch between the two).
I don't think there is a rotary knob that can perform this function, you only have stepped and smooth. I have that mouse you are talking about which is the G502 but it's an actual object that makes contact with the scroll wheel that makes it stepped or into a freewheel.
Post by: upas on Mon, 28 January 2019, 12:25:26
:thumb: on the chamfer/bevel; looking forward to seeing updated pics!
More ideas on OLED (just more detailed of what I was mentioning above, understood brightness/contrast is likely a no-go):
Auto-off function after set time of no rotary-encoder input detected (has a real-time clock after all :-). Auto-on when rotary-encoder input detected resetting auto-off function timer whenever rotary input is detected.
Default to just showing clock on entire OLED screen (nothing else) when no rotary input detected for set amount of time. When rotary input is detected, show pertinent info for current function.
Ability to turn off OLED when unwanted/unneeded via the rotary-encoder menu system. When OLED is off, just push rotary button to turn it back on and goes into whatever function was set to defualt.
Also ability to enable/disable above auto functions.
Considering Knob and case. I didn't find a mention... Will the case be shaped around the contour of a round knob for the hole? Or will it remain a square, well rectangle for entire vertical column? It would look much more polished, and I'd be willing to pay a little more, if it's a little more, to have it looking like it belongs there instead of a round peg into a square hole ;D
I have some of those oled features planned. It already goes to sleep after 60 seconds of keyboard inactivity. If the keyboard is being uses, the OLED is on. I am going to add a toggle. Big time mode is also planned.
1) I kinda would prefer the rotary knob to be blockered out separately and cnced in its won circular spot rather than have a key right below it and in a square cnced spot. Is this possible?
In the new renders, there is no longer a square CNCed spot. I've said that the keyboard shown was a prototype, and also talked about the changes in the first few posts. I've also mentioned this earlier in the thread.
Post by: lac29 on Mon, 28 January 2019, 13:14:33
Post by: mpaarating on Mon, 28 January 2019, 14:12:08
Post by: Kawamashi on Mon, 28 January 2019, 15:10:19
Will you have a prototype to check that the navy blue matches Calm Depths well ? If so, consider me in !
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 28 January 2019, 18:39:51
Post by: KevlarBear on Wed, 30 January 2019, 02:11:44
Post by: KeyCap75 on Wed, 30 January 2019, 04:44:12
If the PCB can support ISO (plus extra plate or platefiles) this would be my endgame-keyboard! ;D
Post by: Asbrodeus on Wed, 30 January 2019, 08:11:11
Post by: madkat13 on Wed, 30 January 2019, 10:21:38
Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk
Post by: upas on Wed, 30 January 2019, 10:48:42
will there be an option for PVD colored brass or ano aluminum plates?
Nope, in order to maintain sanity, this will just be offered with brass plates (and FR4). Maybe two colors (gold, silver) but nothing else.
Plate files will be released for those who want others.
Wow! Very nice board!
If the PCB can support ISO (plus extra plate or platefiles) this would be my endgame-keyboard! ;D
ISO will be supported on the PCB. Plate files will be released.
Is there a plan to get Bluetooth?
Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5X mit Tapatalk
No plans for bluetooth.
Post by: tunadesu on Wed, 30 January 2019, 19:22:50
2) I mentioned this before to you on reddit but I think it does make sense if possible to have the knob be stepped or smooth when rotated (ex Logitech mice scroll wheel allow you to switch between the two).
g502! love that feature. Also, lets hope this goes better than that Leeku75% lol. Remember that thing?
Post by: upas on Wed, 30 January 2019, 22:22:11
I made an update to the PCB, take a look:
(https://i.imgur.com/Rv6lZ65.png?1)
So the PCB will have ISO :)
Post by: KeyCap75 on Thu, 31 January 2019, 01:25:30
this is ISO Enter, right?
Will there also be ISO split left shift? Pleeeeeease!!! :D
Post by: Anaconda on Thu, 31 January 2019, 09:59:18
Post by: RETURNISO on Thu, 31 January 2019, 13:15:09
To all my EU friends:
I made an update to the PCB, take a look:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/Rv6lZ65.png?1)
So the PCB will have ISO :)
Awesome Upas.. really looking forward to the GB
Post by: upas on Thu, 31 January 2019, 13:56:05
You added a split left shift(1.25/1u) as well? that is how 99% of iso layouts are setup. Otherwise looks great!
:eek: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :D
this is ISO Enter, right?
Will there also be ISO split left shift? Pleeeeeease!!! :D
Yes, of course! Haha, enter was just more annoying to do and route.
Post by: JPVann on Thu, 31 January 2019, 19:01:48
Post by: rondg on Thu, 31 January 2019, 19:07:40
Love this design with the encoder. Per other suggestions - can't you just ELIMINATE the Print Screen? Is that really even really used anymore? This would give you dedicated free space for the encoder.
I use the print screen.. A lot! But since this is going to be QMK, we can just map the keys to what we want.
Post by: upas on Thu, 31 January 2019, 22:58:11
Inspired by Windeh, I decided to check out the displacement of my plate based on a consistent force.
Here are the results: https://imgur.com/a/E2ctUR3
These are imperfect - while I did mount my plate to the case (unlike Windeh), I did not account for O rings, PCB, or switches. Those would change these potentially a lot. But this is a good starting point.
Based on my experimentation, I decided to add a meme cut similar to the Windeh cut in order to make the force on each side of the spacebar more consistent. This should help achieve consistent acoustics from the spacebar, as well as making it less stiff.
Post by: mrpetrov on Fri, 01 February 2019, 09:05:38
Hi everyone,
Inspired by Windeh, I decided to check out the displacement of my plate based on a consistent force.
Here are the results: https://imgur.com/a/E2ctUR3
These are imperfect - while I did mount my plate to the case (unlike Windeh), I did not account for O rings, PCB, or switches. Those would change these potentially a lot. But this is a good starting point.
Based on my experimentation, I decided to add a meme cut similar to the Windeh cut in order to make the force on each side of the spacebar more consistent. This should help achieve consistent acoustics from the spacebar, as well as making it less stiff.
Wow that's super interesting! I presume you want as much the same color around all the keys as you can within reason - any way to do a tiny cutout around the center mount?
Post by: 112227 on Sat, 02 February 2019, 10:56:16
Post by: upas on Sat, 02 February 2019, 17:39:19
I built it out with a revised PCB, and found an error - the knob on the PCB was not mounted in the proper place as I did not measure properly.
This is why prototyping is important :)
After Chinese New Year, I'll be placing an order for the next aluminum prototype. If that works out perfectly, the group buy will start soon after.
I've added pictures of the new prototype to the 2nd post in this thread.
Post by: mrpetrov on Sat, 02 February 2019, 18:11:23
Will the tolerances around the default knob be tighter in the final version (ignoring the off-centering impact) - ie about the same gap as with the keycaps?
Post by: HTN47 on Sat, 02 February 2019, 18:45:33
Gawd damn!!
This is gonna be my final board for sure :thumb:
Post by: upas on Sat, 02 February 2019, 20:59:49
Second proto really getting there upas, great work.
Will the tolerances around the default knob be tighter in the final version (ignoring the off-centering impact) - ie about the same gap as with the keycaps?
Yep - that's exactly the intent. I actually have a smaller knob on this one than the actual knobs I'm going to use for the GB, because the nice knobs don't fit with the off-center issue.
Post by: KevlarBear on Mon, 04 February 2019, 21:48:11
Post by: upas on Mon, 04 February 2019, 22:26:04
Do you have any prototypes of the knobs that that you'll be using?
I've bought a whole bunch of knobs.
Though I am working on custom knobs, I am not going to delay the GB if they aren't ready in time.
I'll have pictures of the knob options when I start the GB.
Post by: swangful on Tue, 05 February 2019, 01:00:42
Do you have any prototypes of the knobs that that you'll be using?
I've bought a whole bunch of knobs.
Though I am working on custom knobs, I am not going to delay the GB if they aren't ready in time.
I'll have pictures of the knob options when I start the GB.
Any timelines on when this GB will get going? :D
Post by: ian13 on Tue, 05 February 2019, 06:20:59
Do you have any update on the other color options that you plan to include? Will e-white be offered?
Also, any ballpark on when the GB will go live? Q2? Q3?
Post by: upas on Tue, 05 February 2019, 12:58:00
Do you have any prototypes of the knobs that that you'll be using?
I've bought a whole bunch of knobs.
Though I am working on custom knobs, I am not going to delay the GB if they aren't ready in time.
I'll have pictures of the knob options when I start the GB.
Any timelines on when this GB will get going? :D
Eagerly waiting for this. I don’t mind the long wait for as long as every detail is being considered :)
Do you have any update on the other color options that you plan to include? Will e-white be offered?
Also, any ballpark on when the GB will go live? Q2? Q3?
Hopefully GB will start by late March - hopefully earlier but we'll see.
For now, only navy blue and black are planned. They were the top 2 in IC by far. I'm evaluating some white finishes now, so a white finish may also be offered.
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Thu, 07 February 2019, 11:56:51
Post by: RamenTechMech on Thu, 07 February 2019, 11:58:43
New renders of the board here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99235.0 look pretty good.
Damn that looks good :p :p :p
Post by: OtherAndrew on Thu, 07 February 2019, 16:37:58
Post by: Rensuya on Thu, 07 February 2019, 22:45:29
Upas did a great job with this board and it's looking great in that white finish! That guy's keycaps are looking real sick on it too! Might have to join both GB's ;)New renders of the board here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99235.0 look pretty good.
Damn that looks good :p :p :p
Post by: fcnchuck on Fri, 08 February 2019, 00:14:37
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Fri, 08 February 2019, 00:17:08
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2156e0dbbaffd0f243269cdfa357e1c9
Post by: nasp on Fri, 08 February 2019, 05:06:54
Upas did a great job with this board and it's looking great in that white finish! That guy's keycaps are looking real sick on it too! Might have to join both GB's ;)New renders of the board here https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99235.0 look pretty good.
Damn that looks good :p :p :p
I mean...I hope you join your own GB! :p
Post by: rooski15 on Sat, 09 February 2019, 19:30:13
Post by: upas on Sat, 09 February 2019, 20:29:48
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Sat, 09 February 2019, 22:53:01
Post by: blizzara01 on Sat, 09 February 2019, 23:54:18
Hey guys I wanted to show off some new encoder/OLED features:
Can it set breathing mode only in one key (Esc) and the others are off?
Post by: vicissitude on Sun, 10 February 2019, 00:44:10
Really expect someday there would also be a joystick on the kustoms.
That would be interesting. :D :D
Post by: rooski15 on Sun, 10 February 2019, 02:13:58
Post by: the_high_5 on Sun, 10 February 2019, 02:15:45
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Post by: PotatoTM on Sun, 10 February 2019, 02:30:43
Post by: Moac on Mon, 11 February 2019, 12:26:58
Able to display the Clock across the entire display.
A simple countdown alarm for events...have the keys light/flash up as indicators when the time is up. (display shows remaining time until a certain event)
Do you have any ballpark price point of the keyboard? 300+ 400+?
Will the keyboard be able to use Nordic keys layout?
Looking very promising indeed.
Post by: RETURNISO on Mon, 11 February 2019, 12:29:44
I am very much interested and If I could make a suggestion it would be:
Able to display the Clock across the entire display.
A simple countdown alarm for events...have the keys light/flash up as indicators when the time is up. (display shows remaining time until a certain event)
Do you have any ballpark price point of the keyboard? 300+ 400+?
Will the keyboard be able to use Nordic keys layout?
Looking very promising indeed.
OP have confirmed ISO support ;)
Post by: upas on Mon, 11 February 2019, 13:17:58
Hey guys I wanted to show off some new encoder/OLED features:
Can it set breathing mode only in one key (Esc) and the others are off?
Every key shares the same backlight settings, including breathing.
I really hope a white case option is possible. Can't wait for GB to start.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Hopefully this will work out :)
Post by: upas on Mon, 11 February 2019, 13:19:01
If these prototypes meet the quality bar, I will be using this factory for production as well.
The prototype units should arrive by early next month, and if they are good, the GB will start soon afterwards.
Post by: Rensuya on Mon, 11 February 2019, 16:07:46
I placed an order for the 2nd round of prototypes today.Looking forward to that sexy white! :thumb:
If these prototypes meet the quality bar, I will be using this factory for production as well.
The prototype units should arrive by early next month, and if they are good, the GB will start soon afterwards.
Post by: h9n9n3 on Tue, 12 February 2019, 06:21:30
Bluetooth will be such a nice option if provided.
Post by: whentheclouds on Tue, 12 February 2019, 09:25:36
So good to see a nice 75% that makes me want to go back to 75% again...have to concur.. i thought the Xeno 75% was the bees' knees, but it took way too long to get going and then this beauty came along and stole my heart.
Bluetooth will be such a nice option if provided.
also agree about bluetooth, i am just now realizing the value of going cordless. upas already said no plans for bluetooth, but perhaps in a future iteration..
Post by: gt1989 on Tue, 12 February 2019, 10:00:49
So good to see a nice 75% that makes me want to go back to 75% again...have to concur.. i thought the Xeno 75% was the bees' knees, but it took way too long to get going and then this beauty came along and stole my heart.
Bluetooth will be such a nice option if provided.
also agree about bluetooth, i am just now realizing the value of going cordless. upas already said no plans for bluetooth, but perhaps in a future iteration..
I felt the same way about Xeno, I was planning on it being the last board I buy. However I'm probably going to end up joining this GB too. Which is fine since this can be my home board and Xeno my work board or vice versa.
Post by: Moac on Tue, 12 February 2019, 10:12:14
Hopefully I can get in line before the cut off point:
Post by: phorx on Tue, 12 February 2019, 10:39:58
Post by: Ephemeral on Tue, 12 February 2019, 11:12:46
The dial wheel is what sells it to me , hopefully it will be very tactile.
The dial wheel has got me sold too. It sounds pretty tactile based on the videos.
Post by: Moac on Tue, 12 February 2019, 11:24:40
Perhaps you should come into contact with the guy who made the mod. (more relevant if any future version is with a numpad)
Include a Countdown timer, I can already see it in front of me... dialing up the time and clicking it in to set it.
Post by: ian13 on Tue, 12 February 2019, 20:37:41
But seriously, it will be a useful feature. Also hoping to have an e-coated white option as well.
Post by: DarkMio on Wed, 13 February 2019, 06:24:28
I don´t know if a calculator would be possible to be included but I think this video is a good example of how final a layout could look.
Perhaps you should come into contact with the guy who made the mod. (more relevant if any future version is with a numpad)
Include a Countdown timer, I can already see it in front of me... dialing up the time and clicking it in to set it.
I'm going to get that keyboard from the GB and I am pretty familiar with writing QMK software (through the Massdrop CTRL). If the creator doesn't supply a calculator, I'll write you one. It's pretty easy and convenient, too. If you don't mind it being not scientific, it shouldn't take too long to write an implementation on QMK (and I could already prep it on the Massdrop CTRL, too).
Post by: Moac on Wed, 13 February 2019, 08:30:21
That’s very kind and appreciated. I think others would also like the idea of a calculator or countdown timer.I don´t know if a calculator would be possible to be included but I think this video is a good example of how final a layout could look.
Perhaps you should come into contact with the guy who made the mod. (more relevant if any future version is with a numpad)
Include a Countdown timer, I can already see it in front of me... dialing up the time and clicking it in to set it.
I'm going to get that keyboard from the GB and I am pretty familiar with writing QMK software (through the Massdrop CTRL). If the creator doesn't supply a calculator, I'll write you one. It's pretty easy and convenient, too. If you don't mind it being not scientific, it shouldn't take too long to write an implementation on QMK (and I could already prep it on the Massdrop CTRL, too).
I think a regular basic calculator is the best option.
Again , thank you for sharing your knowledge and for your willingness to help.
Hopefully I can grab a keyboard before it’s gone
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: upas on Wed, 13 February 2019, 09:00:50
I don´t know if a calculator would be possible to be included but I think this video is a good example of how final a layout could look.
Perhaps you should come into contact with the guy who made the mod. (more relevant if any future version is with a numpad)
Include a Countdown timer, I can already see it in front of me... dialing up the time and clicking it in to set it.
I'm going to get that keyboard from the GB and I am pretty familiar with writing QMK software (through the Massdrop CTRL). If the creator doesn't supply a calculator, I'll write you one. It's pretty easy and convenient, too. If you don't mind it being not scientific, it shouldn't take too long to write an implementation on QMK (and I could already prep it on the Massdrop CTRL, too).
I have a lot on my plate already, so I will let you write the calculator :) The actual timer part of the countdown timer would also be not too hard, but making the UI on the OLED could be time consuming. Thank you so much for offering help! If you want to get a head start, feel free to DM me here or on discord - there is hardware available. I'd also love to give support and talk approach with you.
That being said:
While I wish I could personally support every feature suggested, I don't want people to underestimate the work that's already gone into this, and the additional work I already have planned.
No one has used the stm32f072 for the sort of features included here. A ton of work has gone into making this particular chip work with the OLED screen. Real Time Clock is a new thing that to my knowledge, no other GB keyboard has. Writing new views for the OLED screen takes a lot of time and thought. And no one has used the encoder with as many modes as are supported here.
Not to mention, all the work in VIA and QMK that has to be done. I'm constantly trying to add new things, focused mostly on easy configuration so that people don't have to be QMK experts or programmers to get the encoder to do what they want, change keymaps, etc.
I've pretty much selected the set of features I want to support - at this point, any other features won't really make the cut, and will have to be community implemented.
I think a lot of the features suggested here are interesting and good, but there's only so much time I have on top of my day job to work on this while still maintaining my sanity :cool:
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Wed, 13 February 2019, 10:08:37
Post by: DarkMio on Wed, 13 February 2019, 10:54:54
-snip-
Not to mention, all the work in VIA and QMK that has to be done. I'm constantly trying to add new things, focused mostly on easy configuration so that people don't have to be QMK experts or programmers to get the encoder to do what they want, change keymaps, etc.
I've pretty much selected the set of features I want to support - at this point, any other features won't really make the cut, and will have to be community implemented.
I think a lot of the features suggested here are interesting and good, but there's only so much time I have on top of my day job to work on this while still maintaining my sanity :cool:
The chip choice is, in my personal opinion, the only thing that may limit it. How much memory does your firmware already take? I guess the LEDs won't be RGB, because you won't be driving RGB + OLED with "just" 48MHz.
So, I guess there is little to change the processor (if you checked the IC google sheet, I suggested another microprocessor there with good headroom) - for building some software I may need a parts + wiring list, I can source most things and got the necessary hardware to cobble something together. Do you have a reduced testbed? I'm hanging around in the QMK discord, so we could move this talk over there.
Post by: upas on Wed, 13 February 2019, 14:35:54
-snip-
Not to mention, all the work in VIA and QMK that has to be done. I'm constantly trying to add new things, focused mostly on easy configuration so that people don't have to be QMK experts or programmers to get the encoder to do what they want, change keymaps, etc.
I've pretty much selected the set of features I want to support - at this point, any other features won't really make the cut, and will have to be community implemented.
I think a lot of the features suggested here are interesting and good, but there's only so much time I have on top of my day job to work on this while still maintaining my sanity :cool:
The chip choice is, in my personal opinion, the only thing that may limit it. How much memory does your firmware already take? I guess the LEDs won't be RGB, because you won't be driving RGB + OLED with "just" 48MHz.
So, I guess there is little to change the processor (if you checked the IC google sheet, I suggested another microprocessor there with good headroom) - for building some software I may need a parts + wiring list, I can source most things and got the necessary hardware to cobble something together. Do you have a reduced testbed? I'm hanging around in the QMK discord, so we could move this talk over there.
I disagree lol, the chip choice is already overkill. This is a keyboard we're talking about here - most run on AVR which are way more limited (most keyboards use atmega32u4, which has a whopping 16 MHz processor with 16 KB of flash space and 1 KB of RAM - in comparison, this has a 48 MHz processor, 128K of flash, and 16 KB of RAM). 48 MHz is more than enough to drive OLED, and would also be enough to drive RGB, but I have chosen not to do that.
In any case - let's sync up on discord. I'm also in the QMK discord so just ping me and we'll get talking!
Post by: rondg on Wed, 13 February 2019, 17:52:04
Post by: Moac on Fri, 15 February 2019, 12:28:28
Quote
'Keycap compatibility with most GMK base kits (Need 1.75 shift and 65% right side keys)'
Could someone elaborate on what that means? (not used to keyboard tech)
I am considering buying: GMK Carbon or GMK Honeywell. Will those work? Do I need to buy a special set or will any do? (right side is 65% key sizes?) (do these include the correct size shift and the right side keys?)
(http://i.imgur.com/2VPFxBj.png)
Post by: nudoh on Sat, 16 February 2019, 05:07:12
Post by: MrFurrior on Sat, 16 February 2019, 14:52:18
Post by: DasGnome on Sat, 16 February 2019, 17:54:51
Quote'Keycap compatibility with most GMK base kits (Need 1.75 shift and 65% right side keys)'
Could someone elaborate on what that means? (not used to keyboard tech)
I am considering buying: GMK Carbon or GMK Honeywell. Will those work? Do I need to buy a special set or will any do? (right side is 65% key sizes?) (do these include the correct size shift and the right side keys?)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2VPFxBj.png)
This guide by matt30 answers your questions in decent detail https://matt3o.com/anatomy-of-a-keyboard/ (https://matt3o.com/anatomy-of-a-keyboard/), but the gist is that most GMK sets have a shift with size 1.75u (1u being the size of the smallest key on a keyboard like the alphas) and correctly profiled keycaps that match the profile of the right modifiers. Whether or not you need a special kit depends on what you buy as different GB runners plan their kits differently. You can see GMK Honeywell on Originative does have these keys included. If you need me to point them out, send me a PM. Keep in mind GMK Carbon has to be bought aftermarket and the image you inked is a render.
Post by: Moac on Sat, 16 February 2019, 19:35:26
Thanks for the feedback , a question regarding layout. Would this keyboard support this layout? A sort of hybrid ANSI with ISO Enter and the extra key. (Ignore the number pad and the extra buttons)Quote'Keycap compatibility with most GMK base kits (Need 1.75 shift and 65% right side keys)'
Could someone elaborate on what that means? (not used to keyboard tech)
I am considering buying: GMK Carbon or GMK Honeywell. Will those work? Do I need to buy a special set or will any do? (right side is 65% key sizes?) (do these include the correct size shift and the right side keys?)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/2VPFxBj.png)
This guide by matt30 answers your questions in decent detail https://matt3o.com/anatomy-of-a-keyboard/ (https://matt3o.com/anatomy-of-a-keyboard/), but the gist is that most GMK sets have a shift with size 1.75u (1u being the size of the smallest key on a keyboard like the alphas) and correctly profiled keycaps that match the profile of the right modifiers. Whether or not you need a special kit depends on what you buy as different GB runners plan their kits differently. You can see GMK Honeywell on Originative does have these keys included. If you need me to point them out, send me a PM. Keep in mind GMK Carbon has to be bought aftermarket and the image you inked is a render.
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/3fcc90540ef063b4bddb403d799b1152
(http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/3fcc90540ef063b4bddb403d799b1152)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: upas on Wed, 20 February 2019, 22:51:38
(https://i.imgur.com/j6RsrVz.jpg?1)
These should be getting finished in the next couple weeks, and I'll likely have them in-hand in early March.
Stay tuned for GB details!
Post by: Starston3 on Wed, 20 February 2019, 22:53:36
The second round of prototyping is well underway:Looks good... nice relief cuts.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/j6RsrVz.jpg?1)
These should be getting finished in the next couple weeks, and I'll likely have them in-hand in early March.
Stay tuned for GB details!
Post by: KevlarBear on Wed, 20 February 2019, 22:54:39
Post by: vicissitude on Wed, 20 February 2019, 23:13:49
Post by: TuCZnak on Thu, 21 February 2019, 09:52:05
Post by: cfiggis on Wed, 27 February 2019, 14:45:54
Post by: thecyangiant on Wed, 27 February 2019, 21:01:27
Anyways I'm definitely in on this, I love the feature set.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Poesjuh on Thu, 28 February 2019, 11:34:37
Renders show 1.5-1.5-7-1.5-1.5
Proto's go a different route, 1,25-1,25-1,25-6,25-1-1-1
Will this be fixed? Triple 1u bottom row might be an issue for older sets. What will be pcb and plate(s) be like? My suggestion woud be 1,25-1,25-1,25-7-1,5-1,5.
Post by: eskimojo on Thu, 28 February 2019, 12:16:37
Looking at the first proto, second proto and the renders, what will be the bottom row options for the end product?
Renders show 1.5-1.5-7-1.5-1.5
Proto's go a different route, 1,25-1,25-1,25-6,25-1-1-1
Will this be fixed? Triple 1u bottom row might be an issue for older sets. What will be pcb and plate(s) be like? My suggestion woud be 1,25-1,25-1,25-7-1,5-1,5.
PCB support KLE (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2156e0dbbaffd0f243269cdfa357e1c9) in original post shows support for both, along with standard split space.
Post by: Poesjuh on Thu, 28 February 2019, 13:37:19
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Post by: jortzii on Thu, 28 February 2019, 17:55:56
I am so excited about this board. +1 on the timer. I'd love to see a matching numpad - maybe call it the outrigger to keep it in theme? I'd also do dirty things to get this in submarine yellow. Think of GMK Nautilus in sub yellow, diving to find the wreck of a pirate ship!I’m thinking this will be a great board for Nautilus Nightmares, Nines, Eclipse, even the Purple Dragon set. May even be really sick with Bentō. Keeping a close eye on this board for sure
Anyways I'm definitely in on this, I love the feature set.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: sozo on Thu, 28 February 2019, 21:23:22
Post by: upas on Thu, 28 February 2019, 22:51:51
I have a few updates about the prototypes. My manufacturer has some partners that help with anodization, but their usual partner was not able to match the desired navy blue color.
While they could make some quite nice shades of blue, I believe Navy Blue is pretty key to the goal and theme of this board. I told my manufacturer this, so now we are going to use a different partner for anodization.
Unfortunately, that means there is going to be a delay in the prototyping. Once something has been anodized once, the quality will start to decrease drastically when it is stripped and re-anodized. We're essentially starting from scratch with one of the two prototypes, so the group buy will likely be set back a couple weeks.
That said, I really want to deliver on the vision set out in the first page of the IC. I need to ensure the quality of these prototypes is high, so that you will all be pleased with the board :). I'd rather delay the group buy and deliver great results, than rush things and have people be unhappy.
My goal is to start the GB in March. Given this setback, it may be delayed till April, but please trust that it will happen and I am doing my best!
Post by: jortzii on Thu, 28 February 2019, 22:53:06
Hi guys,Take the time you need to get it right! This board is going to be killer!
I have a few updates about the prototypes. My manufacturer has some partners that help with anodization, but their usual partner was not able to match the desired navy blue color.
While they could make some quite nice shades of blue, I believe Navy Blue is pretty key to the goal and theme of this board. I told my manufacturer this, so now we are going to use a different partner for anodization.
Unfortunately, that means there is going to be a delay in the prototyping. Once something has been anodized once, the quality will start to decrease drastically when it is stripped and re-anodized. We're essentially starting from scratch with one of the two prototypes, so the group buy will likely be set back a couple weeks.
That said, I really want to deliver on the vision set out in the first page of the IC. I need to ensure the quality of these prototypes is high, so that you will all be pleased with the board :). I'd rather delay the group buy and deliver great results, than rush things and have people be unhappy.
My goal is to start the GB in March. Given this setback, it may be delayed till April, but please trust that it will happen and I am doing my best!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: thecyangiant on Thu, 28 February 2019, 22:53:35
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Post by: RamenTechMech on Thu, 28 February 2019, 23:20:34
Post by: mrpetrov on Thu, 28 February 2019, 23:23:19
Post by: jortzii on Fri, 01 March 2019, 00:56:49
Best to delay it for it to be perfect and to let us recoup our money :)) :cool:Also this! I need a cool down period, the start of this year has been expensive for boards! Lol
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Post by: MrFurrior on Fri, 01 March 2019, 02:05:42
Hi guys,
I have a few updates about the prototypes. My manufacturer has some partners that help with anodization, but their usual partner was not able to match the desired navy blue color.
While they could make some quite nice shades of blue, I believe Navy Blue is pretty key to the goal and theme of this board. I told my manufacturer this, so now we are going to use a different partner for anodization.
Unfortunately, that means there is going to be a delay in the prototyping. Once something has been anodized once, the quality will start to decrease drastically when it is stripped and re-anodized. We're essentially starting from scratch with one of the two prototypes, so the group buy will likely be set back a couple weeks.
That said, I really want to deliver on the vision set out in the first page of the IC. I need to ensure the quality of these prototypes is high, so that you will all be pleased with the board :). I'd rather delay the group buy and deliver great results, than rush things and have people be unhappy.
My goal is to start the GB in March. Given this setback, it may be delayed till April, but please trust that it will happen and I am doing my best!
This makes me happy, better to get it right than to just throw something out there like some people have on here...
Post by: Kawamashi on Fri, 01 March 2019, 05:39:56
Will you share some pics of the new blue proto when you're satisfied about it ?
Post by: Visionaire on Fri, 01 March 2019, 08:07:08
Post by: p_blaze on Fri, 01 March 2019, 18:05:55
Post by: lakeboredom on Fri, 01 March 2019, 19:37:26
Post by: ian13 on Fri, 01 March 2019, 20:00:25
Post by: KaosJ on Sat, 02 March 2019, 16:28:34
(I would prefer the screen to be at the same height of the case, so when you put the finger here you don't feel like there is a hole)
Post by: sadmachine on Sat, 02 March 2019, 20:01:40
Just one question, can the screen be more or less at the same height of the case or there will be a different height between them so a sort of hole?
(I would prefer the screen to be at the same height of the case, so when you put the finger here you don't feel like there is a hole)
I agree that the screen flush with the case would make it cleaner...esp. easier to clean those inside edges where dust may collect over time.
Either way, so hyped.
Post by: omjak on Sat, 02 March 2019, 21:49:00
Post by: bleair2 on Sun, 03 March 2019, 01:14:58
Post by: vicissitude on Sun, 03 March 2019, 02:45:28
Hope to see the real decent navy blue after anodized.
Thanks for the hard work.
Post by: Xerra on Sun, 03 March 2019, 07:03:39
Post by: KaosJ on Sun, 03 March 2019, 13:04:32
Just one question, can the screen be more or less at the same height of the case or there will be a different height between them so a sort of hole?
(I would prefer the screen to be at the same height of the case, so when you put the finger here you don't feel like there is a hole)
I agree that the screen flush with the case would make it cleaner...esp. easier to clean those inside edges where dust may collect over time.
Either way, so hyped.
Cleaning might be also a reason but i meant for the aesthetic, a flush display with the case would look better imho
Post by: sadmachine on Sun, 03 March 2019, 15:12:36
Just one question, can the screen be more or less at the same height of the case or there will be a different height between them so a sort of hole?
(I would prefer the screen to be at the same height of the case, so when you put the finger here you don't feel like there is a hole)
I agree that the screen flush with the case would make it cleaner...esp. easier to clean those inside edges where dust may collect over time.
Either way, so hyped.
Cleaning might be also a reason but i meant for the aesthetic, a flush display with the case would look better imho
Sorry, I meant to fully agree with you with the first part of my response then segue into a play on words. Failed delivery/poor attempt on my part. Pls give me a pass...studying for professional exams atm :confused:
Post by: ian13 on Wed, 06 March 2019, 03:04:00
Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
+1 Any update on this? I want to know as well.
Post by: bball2 on Wed, 06 March 2019, 12:49:32
Post by: upas on Wed, 06 March 2019, 21:22:21
Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
+1 Any update on this? I want to know as well.
Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
I have not yet received the prototypes in hand, but my factory has sent me pictures of the white finish. It looks great :)
(https://i.imgur.com/TXIXnfu.jpg)
Hopefully when I have it in person, it will be just as great and satisfying. While I can't promise I'll offer it (the quality could be poor), it's looking promising.
Post by: efftwo on Wed, 06 March 2019, 21:23:30
Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
+1 Any update on this? I want to know as well.Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
I have not yet received the prototypes in hand, but my factory has sent me pictures of the white finish. It looks great :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TXIXnfu.jpg)
Hopefully when I have it in person, it will be just as great and satisfying.
Wow, that looks amazing. So excited for this..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: KevlarBear on Wed, 06 March 2019, 22:24:40
Post by: Xerra on Thu, 07 March 2019, 02:31:11
Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
+1 Any update on this? I want to know as well.Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
I have not yet received the prototypes in hand, but my factory has sent me pictures of the white finish. It looks great :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TXIXnfu.jpg)
Hopefully when I have it in person, it will be just as great and satisfying. While I can't promise I'll offer it (the quality could be poor), it's looking promising.
Thanks for the update! From the picture, the texture seems quite good. Can't really tell the temperature of the white though. I'm hoping it'd be slightly warmer, to match the WS1 of Mizu and Minimal! Anyways, good to see things progressing well!
Post by: ian13 on Thu, 07 March 2019, 10:07:44
Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
+1 Any update on this? I want to know as well.Any updates on the white case option? Would be really nice to get something like the one in Mizu renders.
I have not yet received the prototypes in hand, but my factory has sent me pictures of the white finish. It looks great :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/TXIXnfu.jpg)
Hopefully when I have it in person, it will be just as great and satisfying. While I can't promise I'll offer it (the quality could be poor), it's looking promising.
Thanks for the update! From the picture, the texture seems quite good. Can't really tell the temperature of the white though. I'm hoping it'd be slightly warmer, to match the WS1 of Mizu and Minimal! Anyways, good to see things progressing well!
This!
I am hoping it turns out good as well! :thumb:
Post by: jortzii on Tue, 12 March 2019, 01:29:03
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Post by: vicissitude on Tue, 12 March 2019, 05:46:27
Post by: Visionaire on Tue, 12 March 2019, 07:08:05
Post by: rondg on Tue, 12 March 2019, 18:41:17
Post by: Dovan1405 on Wed, 13 March 2019, 04:39:41
Will this board be limited or something???
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Post by: Dennyroxsox on Wed, 13 March 2019, 10:59:45
It almost seems like what you're doing with the processor and screen is add a new dimension to customs, and I think that's really cool.
Post by: upas on Wed, 13 March 2019, 15:33:58
Has the weight been updated? You said you had something in mind. I love the clean look on this thou.
Will this board be limited or something???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The weight design is complete :)
I promise, there will be a new wealth of information released once I receive my 2nd round prototypes. I like to show, not tell. It's way more satisfying :)
To maintain my sanity, the board will be limited. There will be more than 50 units though.
I totally missed the screen on this at first. I really love that idea. Will that be externally programmable? Or will it only feature the time/layer info? I don't want to go too far off scope from a keyboard, but putting a real computer with a clock in a board is a big deal. An OLED screen could really do almost anything...
It almost seems like what you're doing with the processor and screen is add a new dimension to customs, and I think that's really cool.
Right now, it features time, layer info, keymatrix info, lock indicators, and encoder mode. I don't have plans on adding further features at the moment, but it's all written in QMK, so others can build upon it. You're right that there is a real computer with a clock in there :)
Post by: omjak on Wed, 13 March 2019, 21:31:44
To maintain my sanity, the board will be limited. There will be more than 50 units though.
that's very sad news for most of us
Post by: swangful on Wed, 13 March 2019, 23:16:16
To maintain my sanity, the board will be limited. There will be more than 50 units though.
that's very sad news for most of us
Will this be a raffle style then? And yeah. Definitely tired of fighting for keyboards but..its the nature of the game.
Post by: TheMastermind on Wed, 13 March 2019, 23:26:06
To maintain my sanity, the board will be limited. There will be more than 50 units though.
that's very sad news for most of us
Will this be a raffle style then? And yeah. Definitely tired of fighting for keyboards but..its the nature of the game.
+1 this. Do we have a possible vendor for the GB?
Post by: equalunique on Thu, 14 March 2019, 07:28:40
Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
Post by: upas on Thu, 14 March 2019, 09:15:26
To maintain my sanity, the board will be limited. There will be more than 50 units though.
that's very sad news for most of us
Will this be a raffle style then? And yeah. Definitely tired of fighting for keyboards but..its the nature of the game.
To maintain my sanity, the board will be limited. There will be more than 50 units though.
that's very sad news for most of us
Will this be a raffle style then? And yeah. Definitely tired of fighting for keyboards but..its the nature of the game.
+1 this. Do we have a possible vendor for the GB?
This will be FCFS.
I'm the vendor :) Check out my new store, https://cannonkeys.com !
Post by: TuCZnak on Thu, 14 March 2019, 11:09:21
This will be FCFS.RIP, with raffle there was at least a chance to get it, now we won't even make it to checkout before they sell out
I'm the vendor :) Check out my new store, https://cannonkeys.com !
Post by: gt1989 on Thu, 14 March 2019, 11:15:09
:p
Post by: phorx on Thu, 14 March 2019, 12:16:26
This will be FCFS.RIP, with raffle there was at least a chance to get it, now we won't even make it to checkout before they sell out
I'm the vendor :) Check out my new store, https://cannonkeys.com !
That will depend on how many units this is limited to. If it’s 100, the chances improve greatly.
I’m looking forward to seeing what the colour/ano options are going to be when that’s finalized as well. I may be looking for a “raw” kit so hopefully that’s possible.
Post by: swangful on Thu, 14 March 2019, 13:09:22
This will be FCFS.RIP, with raffle there was at least a chance to get it, now we won't even make it to checkout before they sell out
I'm the vendor :) Check out my new store, https://cannonkeys.com !
That will depend on how many units this is limited to. If it’s 100, the chances improve greatly.
I’m looking forward to seeing what the colour/ano options are going to be when that’s finalized as well. I may be looking for a “raw” kit so hopefully that’s possible.
Hopefully 100
Post by: Gobluebro on Thu, 14 March 2019, 13:59:09
This will be FCFS.
I'm the vendor :) Check out my new store, https://cannonkeys.com !
Let's hope the website doesn't go down from all the traffic it will have once the group buy begins :)
Post by: TheMastermind on Thu, 14 March 2019, 16:43:08
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think op said 50 were being made.This will be FCFS.RIP, with raffle there was at least a chance to get it, now we won't even make it to checkout before they sell out
I'm the vendor :) Check out my new store, https://cannonkeys.com !
That will depend on how many units this is limited to. If it’s 100, the chances improve greatly.
I’m looking forward to seeing what the colour/ano options are going to be when that’s finalized as well. I may be looking for a “raw” kit so hopefully that’s possible.
Hopefully 100
Post by: KevlarBear on Thu, 14 March 2019, 16:46:14
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think op said 50 were being made.
To maintain my sanity, the board will be limited. There will be more than 50 units though.
Post by: Moac on Thu, 14 March 2019, 16:53:20
I’ll most likely buy Box navy switches to go with this board.
I hope to be able to buy one before they are sold out , any plans for an additional batch if these sell well?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: p_blaze on Thu, 14 March 2019, 18:15:14
Post by: KaosJ on Thu, 14 March 2019, 18:57:33
This will be FCFS.
I'm the vendor :) Check out my new store, https://cannonkeys.com !
Let's hope the website doesn't go down from all the traffic it will have once the group buy begins :)
Please remember to share the Date/hour/timezone before the gb actually goes live (days before possibly). I would be a bit disappointed to miss this to someone that enters just to flip.
A time that is acceptable for both US and EU would be great to be honest (yeah EU people uses ANSI as well)
Post by: BlankeyGotCaps on Fri, 15 March 2019, 10:45:35
Post by: vicissitude on Fri, 15 March 2019, 10:55:41
Post by: sozo on Fri, 15 March 2019, 17:49:43
Post by: Jermane on Fri, 15 March 2019, 23:08:19
Post by: Visionaire on Fri, 15 March 2019, 23:14:55
FCFS, yikes. Really hoping to get in on this.
First post. Welcome to GH.
Post by: TheMastermind on Sat, 16 March 2019, 00:33:44
Welcome to the hobby. :-\FCFS, yikes. Really hoping to get in on this.
First post. Welcome to GH.
Post by: Jermane on Sat, 16 March 2019, 01:08:00
Welcome to the hobby. :-\FCFS, yikes. Really hoping to get in on this.
First post. Welcome to GH.
Oh I've been around just never made an account on here before but this board made me finally do it. ITS PERFECT.
Post by: jortzii on Sat, 16 March 2019, 01:08:31
FCFS, yikes. Really hoping to get in on this.It’s really not as bad as it sounds. If you know the option ahead of time, it’s a matter of filling out the fields for PP, username, and platform (typically) and then filling in the bubbles for what you want and hitting submit. Decide ahead of time and be quick and you’ve got as good a chance as any
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Sat, 16 March 2019, 01:17:50
Post by: upas on Sat, 16 March 2019, 17:29:33
If the options are known ahead of time. Good GB should have that. I've seen them where options were different/modified and completely new options appeared on the GB form when it went live. Caused many to miss out.
I will definitely release all options ahead of time! And I'll also release all the GB details at least 1 week before the GB starts.
The remade prototypes should be finishing up soon, hope to have an update on that soon :).
Post by: rondg on Sat, 16 March 2019, 17:34:21
Post by: thecyangiant on Sat, 16 March 2019, 17:47:26
Excellent! I'm so excited to see the progress! I really hope to own one of these!If the options are known ahead of time. Good GB should have that. I've seen them where options were different/modified and completely new options appeared on the GB form when it went live. Caused many to miss out.
I will definitely release all options ahead of time! And I'll also release all the GB details at least 1 week before the GB starts.
The remade prototypes should be finishing up soon, hope to have an update on that soon :).
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Jermane on Sun, 17 March 2019, 01:58:52
If the options are known ahead of time. Good GB should have that. I've seen them where options were different/modified and completely new options appeared on the GB form when it went live. Caused many to miss out.
I will definitely release all options ahead of time! And I'll also release all the GB details at least 1 week before the GB starts.
The remade prototypes should be finishing up soon, hope to have an update on that soon :).
Awesome! Thanks for letting us know ahead of time that you will let us know ahead of time :D This will certainly be my end game board. hope everything goes smoothly with your protos.
Post by: Uryftw on Mon, 18 March 2019, 09:06:37
Post by: upas on Tue, 19 March 2019, 12:42:18
I just wanted to officially write down some information that has been made public:
The prototypes are almost done and should ship to me by next week, the factory has matched the desired color, but the finishes still need to be evaluated for quality.
There will be a build stream done of one of the prototypes.
The current plan is to offer more than 50 slots, the actual number has not been revealed.
There will be 4 color options, if these prototypes turn out well: Deep Ocean Blue, Pirate Black, Stormy Grey, and Cloud White. These were the top 4 choices in the IC! (Well, purple was before white, but I think white fits the theme better)
While there are plans for custom knobs, they aren't ready yet and likely won't be ready in time for the group buy. The knobs will not delay this group buy, so there will probably be a future group buy for the custom knobs.
I hope to be able to show everyone more once the prototypes arrive!
Post by: KevlarBear on Tue, 19 March 2019, 13:11:59
Post by: thecyangiant on Tue, 19 March 2019, 13:49:24
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Tekniqs on Tue, 19 March 2019, 16:48:52
Post by: swangful on Tue, 19 March 2019, 21:28:02
Hey guys,
I just wanted to officially write down some information that has been made public:
The prototypes are almost done and should ship to me by next week, the factory has matched the desired color, but the finishes still need to be evaluated for quality.
There will be a build stream done of one of the prototypes.
The current plan is to offer more than 50 slots, the actual number has not been revealed.
There will be 4 color options, if these prototypes turn out well: Deep Ocean Blue, Pirate Black, Stormy Grey, and Cloud White. These were the top 4 choices in the IC! (Well, purple was before white, but I think white fits the theme better)
While there are plans for custom knobs, they aren't ready yet and likely won't be ready in time for the group buy. The knobs will not delay this group buy, so there will probably be a future group buy for the custom knobs.
I hope to be able to show everyone more once the prototypes arrive!
Missed opportunity for the black pearl
Stoked either way
Post by: sozo on Tue, 19 March 2019, 21:28:35
Post by: RETURNISO on Tue, 19 March 2019, 21:45:51
Hey guys,
I just wanted to officially write down some information that has been made public:
The prototypes are almost done and should ship to me by next week, the factory has matched the desired color, but the finishes still need to be evaluated for quality.
There will be a build stream done of one of the prototypes.
The current plan is to offer more than 50 slots, the actual number has not been revealed.
There will be 4 color options, if these prototypes turn out well: Deep Ocean Blue, Pirate Black, Stormy Grey, and Cloud White. These were the top 4 choices in the IC! (Well, purple was before white, but I think white fits the theme better)
While there are plans for custom knobs, they aren't ready yet and likely won't be ready in time for the group buy. The knobs will not delay this group buy, so there will probably be a future group buy for the custom knobs.
I hope to be able to show everyone more once the prototypes arrive!
Nice Upas! Pirate black all the way! :cool:
Post by: Jermane on Tue, 19 March 2019, 22:30:32
Post by: omjak on Tue, 19 March 2019, 23:36:59
While there are plans for custom knobs, they aren't ready yet and likely won't be ready in time for the group buy. The knobs will not delay this group buy, so there will probably be a future group buy for the custom knobs.
Will there be a standard knob (not custom) that will come with the board?
Post by: japancakes on Wed, 20 March 2019, 03:03:07
Post by: upas on Wed, 20 March 2019, 08:30:37
Is brass still a color option?
Brass case was never an option. The weight and plate with both be brass.
Post by: upas on Wed, 20 March 2019, 08:31:14
While there are plans for custom knobs, they aren't ready yet and likely won't be ready in time for the group buy. The knobs will not delay this group buy, so there will probably be a future group buy for the custom knobs.
Will there be a standard knob (not custom) that will come with the board?
Yes! I have some very nice knobs lined up, they just aren't custom. When I receive prototypes and build them out, you'll see them.
Post by: ian13 on Wed, 20 March 2019, 22:24:34
Hey guys,
I just wanted to officially write down some information that has been made public:
The prototypes are almost done and should ship to me by next week, the factory has matched the desired color, but the finishes still need to be evaluated for quality.
There will be a build stream done of one of the prototypes.
The current plan is to offer more than 50 slots, the actual number has not been revealed.
There will be 4 color options, if these prototypes turn out well: Deep Ocean Blue, Pirate Black, Stormy Grey, and Cloud White. These were the top 4 choices in the IC! (Well, purple was before white, but I think white fits the theme better)
While there are plans for custom knobs, they aren't ready yet and likely won't be ready in time for the group buy. The knobs will not delay this group buy, so there will probably be a future group buy for the custom knobs.
I hope to be able to show everyone more once the prototypes arrive!
Missed opportunity for the black pearl
Stoked either way
Oof! I, for one, would like to have it named Black Pearl. :p But that's fine :thumb:
I hope to be able to get in on the Cloud White board, though :cool:
Post by: MrFurrior on Thu, 21 March 2019, 04:57:17
Post by: unluckyxiii on Thu, 21 March 2019, 05:46:02
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: ErgoMacros on Thu, 21 March 2019, 11:54:36
Really like this board. The oled display and the knob. Too bad I can’t use on Mac with wkl.Looks to me like Win key is an option (from the first post):
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2156e0dbbaffd0f243269cdfa357e1c9
Post by: unluckyxiii on Thu, 21 March 2019, 12:01:52
Post by: KevlarBear on Thu, 21 March 2019, 12:04:11
Post by: upas on Thu, 21 March 2019, 14:36:01
Really like this board. The oled display and the knob. Too bad I can’t use on Mac with wkl.Looks to me like Win key is an option (from the first post):
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2156e0dbbaffd0f243269cdfa357e1c9
Ah my bad cos I saw that line about no other bottom row layout support and assumed a fixed wks layout. Great now we just have to wait!
I updated the gist with the ISO PCB support :) The gist shows the PCB support, the plate layouts won't necessarily agree with the PCB (I won't have a fully universal plate), but I will release DXF files for plates.
I'll have more information about plates coming up soon.
Post by: unluckyxiii on Thu, 21 March 2019, 14:52:29
Also, it is QMK, so you can make any key the cmd key. Alternatively you can go System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard > Modifier Keys and set it up there as well
Yes but I use the cmd key very frequently and it has to not in an odd place
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: unluckyxiii on Thu, 21 March 2019, 14:53:03
Really like this board. The oled display and the knob. Too bad I can’t use on Mac with wkl.Looks to me like Win key is an option (from the first post):
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2156e0dbbaffd0f243269cdfa357e1c9Ah my bad cos I saw that line about no other bottom row layout support and assumed a fixed wks layout. Great now we just have to wait!
I updated the gist with the ISO PCB support :) The gist shows the PCB support, the plate layouts won't necessarily agree with the PCB (I won't have a fully universal plate), but I will release DXF files for plates.
I'll have more information about plates coming up soon.
Thanks definitely looking forward to it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: odd on Fri, 22 March 2019, 17:22:09
Post by: shodid on Fri, 22 March 2019, 20:06:02
Post by: ricesteam on Sun, 24 March 2019, 15:25:24
Post by: RETURNISO on Sun, 24 March 2019, 15:42:38
Post by: upas on Sun, 24 March 2019, 16:10:11
I have some unfortunate news. This weekend, I received the two Satisfaction 75 prototypes. And unfortunately, they both fell far short of my quality bar. While the machining was decent for the most part, the finishing quality was quite poor, and frankly unacceptable.
This means two things are going to happen - 1st, this group buy is now going to be delayed again. I'm going to have to spend more of my own money to do a 3rd prototyping round with another factory. That being said, I am very happy with my decision to frontload all the spending and prototyping in order to execute a successful group buy, and I will continue to use this method until I'm confident that my selected manufacturer can deliver.
Second, I am now opening up an IC for my Brutal60 board, which will run before Satisfaction 75, so that I have time to work with a new factory on achieving the desired quality. I have already run a private group buy for the Brutal60, and already have a factory that can meet the quality bar, so as long as there is interest, the Group Buy for Brutal60 will start very soon. Keep your eyes open for a post on that soon!
But not all is lost! I still have two more functioning prototypes of the Satisfaction75, which I will be using to show off some of the cool features, and reveal some new information :). Here are some photos, where you can see some of the issues. I also wish I had a more fitting keycap set for this, but I had to use ePBT Greyscale, since it was all I had available.
(https://i.imgur.com/yzztyvK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/i37Ar0d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ydnt7FZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zpBB3kA.jpg)
Example of issues:
(https://i.imgur.com/oyoWymx.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/e7cGXvI.png)
It's unfortunate that the group buy will be delayed, but please understand this is for the best. I want the Satisfaction 75 to be a satisfying experience when it is finally delivered, and I'm not willing to compromise on that.
P.S. If you haven't already, check out my store, https://cannonkeys.com ! We recently launched and hope we have something you might like!
Post by: gt1989 on Sun, 24 March 2019, 16:15:32
Hello everyone,I'm more than willing to wait for a group buy when it comes to QC issues. I'm glad that you're doing all these prototypes before running it.
I have some unfortunate news. This weekend, I received the two Satisfaction 75 prototypes. And unfortunately, they both fell far short of my quality bar. While the machining was decent for the most part, the finishing quality was quite poor, and frankly unacceptable.
This means two things are going to happen - 1st, this group buy is now going to be delayed again. I'm going to have to spend more of my own money to do a 3rd prototyping round with another factory. That being said, I am very happy with my decision to frontload all the spending and prototyping in order to execute a successful group buy, and I will continue to use this method until I'm confident that my selected manufacturer can deliver.
Second, I am now opening up an IC for my Brutal60 board, which will run before Satisfaction 75, so that I have time to work with a new factory on achieving the desired quality. I have already run a private group buy for the Brutal60, and already have a factory that can meet the quality bar, so as long as there is interest, the Group Buy for Brutal60 will start very soon. Keep your eyes open for a post on that soon!
But not all is lost! I still have two more functioning prototypes of the Satisfaction75, which I will be using to show off some of the cool features, and reveal some new information :). Here are some photos, where you can see some of the issues. I also wish I had a more fitting keycap set for this, but I had to use ePBT Greyscale, since it was all I had available.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/yzztyvK.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/i37Ar0d.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ydnt7FZ.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/zpBB3kA.jpg)
Example of issues:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oyoWymx.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/e7cGXvI.png)
It's unfortunate that the group buy will be delayed, but please understand this is for the best. I want the Satisfaction 75 to be a satisfying experience when it is finally delivered, and I'm not willing to compromise on that.
P.S. If you haven't already, check out my store, https://cannonkeys.com ! We recently launched and hope we have something you might like!
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: Moac on Sun, 24 March 2019, 16:17:01
I think we all can agree with that , the design is on point and the quality control is just a matter of time.Hello everyone,I'm more than willing to wait for a group buy when it comes to QC issues. I'm glad that you're doing all these prototypes before running it.
I have some unfortunate news. This weekend, I received the two Satisfaction 75 prototypes. And unfortunately, they both fell far short of my quality bar. While the machining was decent for the most part, the finishing quality was quite poor, and frankly unacceptable.
This means two things are going to happen - 1st, this group buy is now going to be delayed again. I'm going to have to spend more of my own money to do a 3rd prototyping round with another factory. That being said, I am very happy with my decision to frontload all the spending and prototyping in order to execute a successful group buy, and I will continue to use this method until I'm confident that my selected manufacturer can deliver.
Second, I am now opening up an IC for my Brutal60 board, which will run before Satisfaction 75, so that I have time to work with a new factory on achieving the desired quality. I have already run a private group buy for the Brutal60, and already have a factory that can meet the quality bar, so as long as there is interest, the Group Buy for Brutal60 will start very soon. Keep your eyes open for a post on that soon!
But not all is lost! I still have two more functioning prototypes of the Satisfaction75, which I will be using to show off some of the cool features, and reveal some new information :). Here are some photos, where you can see some of the issues. I also wish I had a more fitting keycap set for this, but I had to use ePBT Greyscale, since it was all I had available.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/yzztyvK.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/i37Ar0d.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ydnt7FZ.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/zpBB3kA.jpg)
Example of issues:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oyoWymx.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/e7cGXvI.png)
It's unfortunate that the group buy will be delayed, but please understand this is for the best. I want the Satisfaction 75 to be a satisfying experience when it is finally delivered, and I'm not willing to compromise on that.
P.S. If you haven't already, check out my store, https://cannonkeys.com ! We recently launched and hope we have something you might like!
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: sozo on Sun, 24 March 2019, 22:26:16
Hello everyone,
I have some unfortunate news. This weekend, I received the two Satisfaction 75 prototypes. And unfortunately, they both fell far short of my quality bar. While the machining was decent for the most part, the finishing quality was quite poor, and frankly unacceptable.
This means two things are going to happen - 1st, this group buy is now going to be delayed again. I'm going to have to spend more of my own money to do a 3rd prototyping round with another factory. That being said, I am very happy with my decision to frontload all the spending and prototyping in order to execute a successful group buy, and I will continue to use this method until I'm confident that my selected manufacturer can deliver.
Second, I am now opening up an IC for my Brutal60 board, which will run before Satisfaction 75, so that I have time to work with a new factory on achieving the desired quality. I have already run a private group buy for the Brutal60, and already have a factory that can meet the quality bar, so as long as there is interest, the Group Buy for Brutal60 will start very soon. Keep your eyes open for a post on that soon!
But not all is lost! I still have two more functioning prototypes of the Satisfaction75, which I will be using to show off some of the cool features, and reveal some new information :). Here are some photos, where you can see some of the issues. I also wish I had a more fitting keycap set for this, but I had to use ePBT Greyscale, since it was all I had available.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/yzztyvK.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/i37Ar0d.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ydnt7FZ.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/zpBB3kA.jpg)
Example of issues:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/oyoWymx.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/e7cGXvI.png)
It's unfortunate that the group buy will be delayed, but please understand this is for the best. I want the Satisfaction 75 to be a satisfying experience when it is finally delivered, and I'm not willing to compromise on that.
P.S. If you haven't already, check out my store, https://cannonkeys.com ! We recently launched and hope we have something you might like!
dang that sucks. Thanks for being transparent with the interest check people! Regardless, I'm in for this group buy. Your dedication to putting out the best possible product is amazing and I can't wait for this amazing board! GL with the new prototype, hopefully everything's up to par this time around
Post by: upas on Tue, 26 March 2019, 00:05:53
Post by: vicissitude on Tue, 26 March 2019, 00:25:56
Post by: KevlarBear on Tue, 26 March 2019, 01:09:48
Post by: b4d_tR1p on Tue, 26 March 2019, 04:36:23
Post by: gt1989 on Tue, 26 March 2019, 11:37:21
Post by: upas on Tue, 26 March 2019, 13:27:33
Any pictures of how the plate mounting looks, and is a FR4 plate option still planned?
This is basically the way it will be mounted:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99959.msg2739730#msg2739730
Same as the Brutal60, but there are 12 potential mounting points instead of 6. You can check out the force displacement charts in the FAQ section of the first few posts.
FR4 plates will be add-on options, brass plate will come with the kit by default.
Post by: cfiggis on Tue, 26 March 2019, 14:08:49
Post by: Telstar on Tue, 26 March 2019, 16:05:46
Post by: bj on Thu, 28 March 2019, 04:36:56
Post by: upas on Fri, 29 March 2019, 11:26:42
I have another update! I've found a new factory to produce the board. This took much less time than I thought, so the group buy will likely open sometime in April!
I've placed an order for a sample, and it should be arriving in upcoming weeks.
Once the sample is confirmed good, I'll release some super secret details!
The weight design is finalized. You guys will all get to see it soon ;)
Post by: thecyangiant on Fri, 29 March 2019, 11:38:33
Hey guys,Excellent! fingers crossed that this factory has less qc issues.
I have another update! I've found a new factory to produce the board. This took much less time than I thought, so the group buy will likely open sometime in April!
I've placed an order for a sample, and it should be arriving in upcoming weeks.
Once the sample is confirmed good, I'll release some super secret details!
The weight design is finalized. You guys will all get to see it soon ;)
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Post by: farmisen on Fri, 29 March 2019, 14:35:24
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: jortzii on Fri, 29 March 2019, 15:16:54
Hey guys,Awesome! I’m nursing my wallet back to health after SA Vilebloom, GMK Metropolis, and some artisans...but I will be here for this!
I have another update! I've found a new factory to produce the board. This took much less time than I thought, so the group buy will likely open sometime in April!
I've placed an order for a sample, and it should be arriving in upcoming weeks.
Once the sample is confirmed good, I'll release some super secret details!
The weight design is finalized. You guys will all get to see it soon ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: blizzara01 on Fri, 29 March 2019, 15:27:04
Hey guys,Excited for super secret details
I have another update! I've found a new factory to produce the board. This took much less time than I thought, so the group buy will likely open sometime in April!
I've placed an order for a sample, and it should be arriving in upcoming weeks.
Once the sample is confirmed good, I'll release some super secret details!
The weight design is finalized. You guys will all get to see it soon ;)
Post by: MrFurrior on Fri, 05 April 2019, 13:45:13
Hey guys,
I just wanted to officially write down some information that has been made public:
The prototypes are almost done and should ship to me by next week, the factory has matched the desired color, but the finishes still need to be evaluated for quality.
There will be a build stream done of one of the prototypes.
The current plan is to offer more than 50 slots, the actual number has not been revealed.
There will be 4 color options, if these prototypes turn out well: Deep Ocean Blue, Pirate Black, Stormy Grey, and Cloud White. These were the top 4 choices in the IC! (Well, purple was before white, but I think white fits the theme better)
While there are plans for custom knobs, they aren't ready yet and likely won't be ready in time for the group buy. The knobs will not delay this group buy, so there will probably be a future group buy for the custom knobs.
I hope to be able to show everyone more once the prototypes arrive!
With the change in manufacturer are these still the colours you are hoping for? Really excited for this!
Post by: skyyyy on Fri, 05 April 2019, 15:26:24
Post by: swangful on Fri, 05 April 2019, 15:27:15
So I'm pretty new to the mechanical keeb community, however I'm in love with this design. How much assembly knowledge will be needed to put it together?
soldering, screwdriver, and learning how to use QMK is probably all you need to know.
Post by: Starston3 on Fri, 05 April 2019, 15:35:58
No real need to understand QMK as the PCB is supported by VIA, a user friendly UI to remap keys, change lighting and knob controls.So I'm pretty new to the mechanical keeb community, however I'm in love with this design. How much assembly knowledge will be needed to put it together?
soldering, screwdriver, and learning how to use QMK is probably all you need to know.
Post by: skyyyy on Fri, 05 April 2019, 15:52:24
So I'm pretty new to the mechanical keeb community, however I'm in love with this design. How much assembly knowledge will be needed to put it together?
soldering, screwdriver, and learning how to use QMK is probably all you need to know.
sounds pretty simple. I've never soldered anything keyboard related, but it cant imagine its extremely complicated. thanks!
Post by: swangful on Fri, 05 April 2019, 16:00:58
So I'm pretty new to the mechanical keeb community, however I'm in love with this design. How much assembly knowledge will be needed to put it together?
soldering, screwdriver, and learning how to use QMK is probably all you need to know.
sounds pretty simple. I've never soldered anything keyboard related, but it cant imagine its extremely complicated. thanks!
definitely not. unless youre soldering SMD leds or trying to desolder a pro-micro, both of which you won't be doing for this keyboard.
Post by: skyyyy on Fri, 05 April 2019, 16:06:28
So I'm pretty new to the mechanical keeb community, however I'm in love with this design. How much assembly knowledge will be needed to put it together?
soldering, screwdriver, and learning how to use QMK is probably all you need to know.
cool. thanks for the info.
sounds pretty simple. I've never soldered anything keyboard related, but it cant imagine its extremely complicated. thanks!
definitely not. unless youre soldering SMD leds or trying to desolder a pro-micro, both of which you won't be doing for this keyboard.
Post by: Sintpinty on Fri, 05 April 2019, 16:45:01
Post by: Pennywise359 on Sat, 06 April 2019, 10:01:46
Post by: mrpetrov on Sat, 06 April 2019, 10:48:14
I love it and probably going to be in for this one because I wanted a 75% for long time and satisfaction looks like a perfect candidate for my first 75% board. Despite the quality issues the prototype looks fantastic, the only thing that bothers me is function row. Those gaps without blockers kinda ruin the overall look.
The final version, as far as I understand it, will have blockers in the Fn row.
Post by: jortzii on Sat, 06 April 2019, 18:08:02
I love it and probably going to be in for this one because I wanted a 75% for long time and satisfaction looks like a perfect candidate for my first 75% board. Despite the quality issues the prototype looks fantastic, the only thing that bothers me is function row. Those gaps without blockers kinda ruin the overall look.Gaps without blockers? The function keys are grouped into sets of 4, each with blockers between if that’s what you were referring to. The sample that he got from the factory that didn’t meet his standards has them as it’s close to the final design. The only ones without were the early prototypes
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: upas on Sun, 07 April 2019, 15:49:28
- The new prototype order is well underway, it should arrive in the next couple weeks
- My fully built Satisfaction75 will be at the Boston Keyboard Meetup, next Saturday, 4/13. Come check it out if you're in the area! More details are on reddit.
- Jae from TopClack will be doing a build stream with a Satisfaction75 prototype next weekend, Sunday April 14th at 3pm EST
Post by: rondg on Sun, 07 April 2019, 17:39:29
A few Satisfaction75 related updates:
- The new prototype order is well underway, it should arrive in the next couple weeks
- My fully built Satisfaction75 will be at the Boston Keyboard Meetup, next Saturday, 4/13. Come check it out if you're in the area! More details are on reddit.
- Jae from TopClack will be doing a build stream with a Satisfaction75 prototype next weekend, Sunday April 14th at 3pm EST
Is it a safe assumption that the GB is more likely to run on May?
Post by: upas on Sun, 07 April 2019, 18:33:37
A few Satisfaction75 related updates:
- The new prototype order is well underway, it should arrive in the next couple weeks
- My fully built Satisfaction75 will be at the Boston Keyboard Meetup, next Saturday, 4/13. Come check it out if you're in the area! More details are on reddit.
- Jae from TopClack will be doing a build stream with a Satisfaction75 prototype next weekend, Sunday April 14th at 3pm EST
Is it a safe assumption that the GB is more likely to run on May?
Given the sheer number of GMK sets this month, and for estimated prototyping times, May GB for Satisfaction75 is a safe bet at this point.
Happy to allow people's wallets to recover :)
Post by: rondg on Sun, 07 April 2019, 18:41:55
A few Satisfaction75 related updates:
- The new prototype order is well underway, it should arrive in the next couple weeks
- My fully built Satisfaction75 will be at the Boston Keyboard Meetup, next Saturday, 4/13. Come check it out if you're in the area! More details are on reddit.
- Jae from TopClack will be doing a build stream with a Satisfaction75 prototype next weekend, Sunday April 14th at 3pm EST
Is it a safe assumption that the GB is more likely to run on May?
Given the sheer number of GMK sets this month, and for estimated prototyping times, May GB for Satisfaction75 is a safe bet at this point.
Happy to allow people's wallets to recover :)
Thank you!
Post by: Tyki on Sun, 07 April 2019, 21:36:23
Post by: Aznakh on Tue, 09 April 2019, 09:29:59
Post by: NovaBlu on Tue, 09 April 2019, 09:59:28
Post by: upas on Tue, 09 April 2019, 18:08:32
even if the group buy does not happen I would still like to pay for the blueprints so I can get made myself. I am really loving the knob and the small display.
This group buy will happen. Sometime in May
Post by: jortzii on Thu, 11 April 2019, 17:05:52
Guess this means that I will have the option to buy a board in april after all... Oh no hahahaeven if the group buy does not happen I would still like to pay for the blueprints so I can get made myself. I am really loving the knob and the small display.
This group buy will happen. Sometime in May
Post by: DetectiveNio on Thu, 11 April 2019, 17:14:19
Post by: upas on Thu, 11 April 2019, 19:51:29
I know there's probably only a month until the GB but ... will there be a PC case option?
PC is not planned
Post by: Kokaloo on Sat, 13 April 2019, 12:37:09
Post by: fatpolomanjr on Sat, 13 April 2019, 17:46:17
Post by: Capsy on Sat, 13 April 2019, 17:48:33
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: phorx on Sat, 13 April 2019, 22:17:32
E-white with GMK Mizu is a dream build.
E-white would be amazing!
Post by: jortzii on Sat, 13 April 2019, 23:03:10
Have you at all decided on what the final colors will be other than the Navy Blue? :D
Hey guys,
I just wanted to officially write down some information that has been made public:
The prototypes are almost done and should ship to me by next week, the factory has matched the desired color, but the finishes still need to be evaluated for quality.
There will be a build stream done of one of the prototypes.
The current plan is to offer more than 50 slots, the actual number has not been revealed.
There will be 4 color options, if these prototypes turn out well: Deep Ocean Blue, Pirate Black, Stormy Grey, and Cloud White. These were the top 4 choices in the IC! (Well, purple was before white, but I think white fits the theme better)
While there are plans for custom knobs, they aren't ready yet and likely won't be ready in time for the group buy. The knobs will not delay this group buy, so there will probably be a future group buy for the custom knobs.
I hope to be able to show everyone more once the prototypes arrive!
Mentioned planned colors here, hasn't confirmed 100% yet, likely just waiting on what the factory can do.
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Sun, 14 April 2019, 10:36:56
Holy Pandas, Carbon Fibre plate, rotary encoders and a fancy knob ;)
Thanks again to Upas for sending me the board
Come hang out and see the board (plus a brutal60 build) at 8pm UK, 3pm east coast, noon west coast on Top Clack:
https://www.twitch.tv/topclack
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: phorx on Sun, 14 April 2019, 17:23:30
Post by: Jae-3soteric on Sun, 14 April 2019, 17:44:04
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/358532590107623424/567113859354198017/image0.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/358532590107623424/567114350364459029/image0.jpg)
Post by: Kokaloo on Sun, 14 April 2019, 19:25:29
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sun, 14 April 2019, 23:49:39
Post by: add1ct3dd on Mon, 15 April 2019, 06:03:19
I was confused how it originally said no ISO, yet this is ISO until I saw the updates.
Registered interest. A deep purple CNC'd 75%? Hell yeah! Subbed.
Post by: rondg on Mon, 15 April 2019, 07:11:17
Came from reddit... love it!
I was confused how it originally said no ISO, yet this is ISO until I saw the updates.
Registered interest. A deep purple CNC'd 75%? Hell yeah! Subbed.
I think that's blue?
Post by: add1ct3dd on Mon, 15 April 2019, 08:31:47
Came from reddit... love it!
I was confused how it originally said no ISO, yet this is ISO until I saw the updates.
Registered interest. A deep purple CNC'd 75%? Hell yeah! Subbed.
I think that's blue?
OP IC form says Purple is potential, I didn't mean the picture lol
Post by: rondg on Mon, 15 April 2019, 10:18:17
Came from reddit... love it!
I was confused how it originally said no ISO, yet this is ISO until I saw the updates.
Registered interest. A deep purple CNC'd 75%? Hell yeah! Subbed.
I think that's blue?
OP IC form says Purple is potential, I didn't mean the picture lol
Oh ok. I did not see that ;D
Post by: MrFurrior on Mon, 15 April 2019, 12:32:55
Came from reddit... love it!
I was confused how it originally said no ISO, yet this is ISO until I saw the updates.
Registered interest. A deep purple CNC'd 75%? Hell yeah! Subbed.
I think that's blue?
OP IC form says Purple is potential, I didn't mean the picture lol
"There will be 4 color options, if these prototypes turn out well: Deep Ocean Blue, Pirate Black, Stormy Grey, and Cloud White. These were the top 4 choices in the IC! (Well, purple was before white, but I think white fits the theme better)"
That was from a post from Upas a while back.
Post by: NovaBlu on Tue, 16 April 2019, 11:45:05
even if the group buy does not happen I would still like to pay for the blueprints so I can get made myself. I am really loving the knob and the small display.
This group buy will happen. Sometime in May
So, just asking because I'm new here what if I miss the group buys? Will there be a way for me to still get this keyboard?
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Tue, 16 April 2019, 12:10:55
So, just asking because I'm new here what if I miss the group buys? Will there be a way for me to still get this keyboard?
Probably on r/mm after the GB at a bit of a markup. Someone will ultimately sell theirs...
Post by: goddream on Tue, 16 April 2019, 23:30:24
Post by: Croktopus on Sat, 20 April 2019, 04:33:34
Post by: upas on Tue, 23 April 2019, 14:06:54
Are the knobs sourced from somewhere or custom machined for this GB? After seeing the mother of pearl one, I want like a dozen different ones.
The knobs are sourced as premade knobs, I will be offering a few options.
The new prototype should arrive this week :) If it passes my QC, I'll start to release more information and Group buy details.
The weight design is REALLY cool, I promise!
Post by: thecyangiant on Tue, 23 April 2019, 14:17:14
...
The new prototype should arrive this week :) If it passes my QC, I'll start to release more information and Group buy details.
The weight design is REALLY cool, I promise!
Yeeeeeeeeee!
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Post by: BrutalBanana on Tue, 23 April 2019, 16:02:59
Also, apologies if this is a bad question but I'm unfamiliar with media controls on custom boards. Will media controls and other knob functionality work with any OS (Mac, Windows, iOS, Android, Linux, etc) ?
Post by: upas on Thu, 25 April 2019, 15:36:03
Post by: omgkittiesyay on Thu, 25 April 2019, 16:19:57
Post by: rondg on Thu, 25 April 2019, 16:55:35
https://www.instagram.com/cannon.keys/p/BwsS4tUHehE/?igshid=1px2p228zxhmc
When is the GB? will it be in the next 2 weeks? ;D
Post by: poodude on Thu, 25 April 2019, 20:51:29
Post by: mrpetrov on Thu, 25 April 2019, 21:15:24
Is there any way to get a more low profile rotary encoder knob made? I love the look of the original rendered one with the soft curves, it fits the board really well. The tall brass one sticks out a bit too much for me. Probably too expensive, but one made of out resin/plastic would look really nice. Love the progress so far!
He has mentioned in the past that he may explore options for alternative knobs after the GB, but that he didn't want to hold up the GB for the knob.
Post by: thornkin on Thu, 25 April 2019, 21:54:15
Laser ALT sporting red Sky Pandas
Post by: upas on Fri, 26 April 2019, 08:24:32
How easy is it to utilize the rotary encoder? For example, if I wanted it to be volume, how much work is that? On Windows.
Laser ALT sporting red Sky Pandas
It's no work at all.
5 encoder modes will be supported by default:
Volume
Scrolling
Media (Scrubbing and Play/Pause)
Brightness
Backlight
3 custom modes will be easily configurable in VIA.
Post by: upas on Sat, 27 April 2019, 10:55:07
https://www.instagram.com/cannon.keys/p/Bww3MSxnYDC/?igshid=qs6ykdcl760l
Post by: rondg on Sat, 27 April 2019, 11:15:23
Weight part 2:
https://www.instagram.com/cannon.keys/p/Bww3MSxnYDC/?igshid=qs6ykdcl760l
Is it still a limited, FCFS group buy?
EDIT: Oops. Read the first post. That answered my question.
Post by: Slash Emperor on Sat, 27 April 2019, 11:35:54
Weight part 2:Ooh, that's looking hot. Let me in already!
https://www.instagram.com/cannon.keys/p/Bww3MSxnYDC/?igshid=qs6ykdcl760l
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: p_blaze on Sat, 27 April 2019, 21:55:48
The rotary encoder would be super fricking useful for me, and it matches my guitar lmao
fingers crossed i guess for a lot of units and a low price
Post by: Croktopus on Sat, 27 April 2019, 22:36:00
Post by: gotemall on Sun, 28 April 2019, 09:29:50
Will this board be available with the LOW PROFILE "KNOB" similar to the various ones in your original posts like the ones below. If so then this will be a definitive buy for me.
The low profile KNOB along with the circular/rounded top just looks so awesome. I am keeping my fingers crossed that your response will be a yes to this.
(https://i.imgur.com/azQgHbP.png)(https://i.imgur.com/DukXXNK.png)
Or does anyone else know?
Thanks
Post by: mrpetrov on Sun, 28 April 2019, 10:15:09
@UPAS, I have already purchased 4 boards this year so far, I said I wouldn't get anymore, however I am seriously considering this one.
Will this board be available with the LOW PROFILE "KNOB" similar to the various ones in your original posts like the ones below. If so then this will be a definitive buy for me.
The low profile KNOB along with the circular/rounded top just looks so awesome. I am keeping my fingers crossed that your response will be a yes to this.
Or does anyone else know?
Thanks
From my perspective, I don't care terribly if the GB comes with a low profile knob or not. I'd like a lower profile knob too, but that's something that I think would be fairly easily obtained after the GB. I'm sure there will be dozens or even a hundred+ people that will want a lower profile knob and it's not rocket science to have one manufactured.
Post by: upas on Sun, 28 April 2019, 11:12:59
That said, I think a lot of people are going to be very happy.
The GB thread with GB information has been posted, it's waiting to get approved :)
Post by: xedith on Sat, 04 May 2019, 23:38:10
Post by: RETURNISO on Sun, 05 May 2019, 15:58:13
I've always said that I would not hold up the GB for a custom knob.
That said, I think a lot of people are going to be very happy.
The GB thread with GB information has been posted, it's waiting to get approved :)
:eek: <3
Post by: upas on Sun, 05 May 2019, 16:38:25
Is there going to be a pre-built option or is it just a kit you must put together? Never put together a keyboard kit so it'd be a shame if I destroy such a beautiful keyboard.
This will just be a kit - the group buy thread is live and has more information!
Shameless plug - I have a kit called the Practice 60 on my store, CannonKeys.com. You can practice soldering on it, and at the end, you'll have a fully functioning 60% keyboard.
The whole idea is to practice there, so if you mess up, its cheap, but you get soldering practice before working on a $400 custom kit.
Post by: Cbisquit on Thu, 16 May 2019, 20:55:35
I'm definitely interested in snatching it up from the next batch, if that happens. Made sure to sign up for updates :D
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Sat, 18 May 2019, 21:10:28
Shameless plug - I have a kit called the Practice 60 on my store, CannonKeys.com. You can practice soldering on it, and at the end, you'll have a fully functioning 60% keyboard.Practice60 is legit. Durable. Not swiss cheese. Get 2 in the kit. Allen Iverson. Cheap! All bases hit.
The whole idea is to practice there, so if you mess up, its cheap, but you get soldering practice before working on a $400 custom kit.
I recommend soldering, desoldering, then soldering again. Repeat on second board. Then repeat til you're good.
I'm sure the Satisfaction75's PCB will also be robust like all Upas' PCBs, but if you ever have to solder, let's say, on a CA-66/Moon TKL/Canoe/other high end keyboard that looks great but doesn't have as nicely made PCB, being good helps keep you from lifting a pad.