MYOC - Make your own caps!

[Findecanor]

Do you think the you can try using ABS ? I found this forum regarding liquid ABS plastic [...]

The lenghtiest post in that thread happens to be mine ...

It is about a techniqe of dissolving ABS in solvent (acetone, acetaldehyde is similar) to get a putty that sets hard when the solvent has evaporated.
It is great for filling holes and gaps in plastic armour (think Stormtrooper from Star Wars), made from ABS, but not for much else.
The problem is that the solvent does not evaporate evenly. You get shrinkage, bubbles, warping, etc. The result is often softer than the original plastic.

[hazeluff]

The lenghtiest post in that thread happens to be mine ...

It is about a techniqe of dissolving ABS in solvent (acetone, acetaldehyde is similar) to get a putty that sets hard when the solvent has evaporated.
It is great for filling holes and gaps in plastic armour (think Stormtrooper from Star Wars), made from ABS, but not for much else.
The problem is that the solvent does not evaporate evenly. You get shrinkage, bubbles, warping, etc. The result is often softer than the original plastic.

Is this not kinda like solvents used as glues/cements?

I've used a lot of that stuff for modelling Gundams/Design and Technology Class. That stuff doesn't ever set nicely, usually makes a weird texture or maybe bubbly. Everytime I've used it, it involves me using sand paper to smooth that stuff. But I can't imagine that stuff used to disolve a ton of plastic and making stuff from it.

[AvenZerg]

Completely waste them, unless theyre landmines.

[video=youtube;X8VSOlKiafk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8VSOlKiafk[/video]

lmao! funny vid.
It really depends tho.. X can be handy if you have a few of them run into a mineral line and Xplode them at the right time.. banelings tend to behave weirdly if you just A move them in mineral lines..

[Input Nirvana]

Yikes!

EDITED POST-- A post mean for another thread somehow got duplicated and posted here...WHAT THE HELL??? I'm deleting post...

Hazeluffs response below is to the now-deleted post....

[hazeluff]

Be careful though. He has every right to ask whatever he wants, and sell for whatever he wants. Someone may or may not buy it at those prices. People spend way too much on things every day. But after a few tries, if he wants it to sell, the price will start coming down. He saw several selling for $1,000-$1,500 and so far people are trying to get it for less. That's the auction game. We know it's worth less than $100 to us, but to someone else it may be worth $300. Obviously it's not worth the $1,500 he's throwing out there but who knows?

His lack of answering emails with good honest questions, and the silly counter-offers is a bit maddening, I admit. Not the trait of a person I would choose to deal with.

Welcome to the free market. = D

[braaaiiins]

I'm not years ahead of anyone haha. This is my first casting project. About the dissolved abs plastic - I've never tried it, but it doesn't sound like a good plan. The solvent to plastic ratio would be pretty high and the end product would have a lot of shrinkage after the solvent evaporates. Not exactly ideal for a 2 part closed mold like what you see here in this thread. For these mixing resins, the mass of material going into the mold is essentially the same coming out cured.

[RiGS]

lmao! funny vid.
It really depends tho.. X can be handy if you have a few of them run into a mineral line and Xplode them at the right time.. banelings tend to behave weirdly if you just A move them in mineral lines..

This is what I would call funny.

[video=youtube;jcQedw7R1zk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcQedw7R1zk[/video]

[ishtob]

Welcome to the free market. = D

i would never charge more than $10 over the basic material cost, I'd only want to make my time back on this, not here to make a profit

[hazeluff]

yea its the underside, I'm not exactly sure how I should go about fixing it...

Place a flat piece of plastic on the inside of one of your keycaps and then make a new mold? or use your craft knife to cut the mold flat?

[ishtob]

Place a flat piece of plastic on the inside of one of your keycaps and then make a new mold? or use your craft knife to cut the mold flat?

i'll try the plastic thing, cutting with a knife just makes it more ugly : ( cuz the silicone flex when I try  cutting

[litster]

Hum, call me crazy, but, could you cast, ahum, a Filco case?  That could really help our Phantom custom keyboard project.

[ishtob]

lol... it is possible, but will be alot of silicone

[litster]

How many times can you reuse the mold?  There are 2 halves, so there would need to be 2 different molds.  A lot of people want the 7bit Special layout and that would require removal of the plastic between the 6-pack keys and the arrow keys.  Could you do that by shaping the mold after it is set?

[braaaiiins]

The mold I'm using looks like it'll hold up for quite awhile. I don't see any signs of stress or cracks in the silicone after I cast. Hopefully it'll last at least a hundred casts, but I wouldn't be surprised if it outlasted that.

I really want to make a mold of a clack factory keycap. Does anyone want to send me one? I'll be sure to send it back with some special clones =).

Another update - I started another cast today. This time I added some really nice blue glitter powder (pearl ex - sky blue!). I poured in a little too much resin into the mold this time, so some excess came oozing out of the edges. From what the ooze looks like, the keycap is going to be really nice looking. I'll be demolding tomorrow afternoon!

[ishtob]

I dont think we should clone the clack factory.. as an artist I'm against copying another's work

[braaaiiins]

I dont think we should clone the clack factory.. as an artist I'm against copying another's work

I respect that. I would never sell them - that goes against my ethics, too. I don't see any problem in cloning it for non profit fun though. Those caps go for absurd prices - they're begging to be molded for a DIY kind of person.

[Oqsy]

Say no to clones!

[ishtob]

if you can carve it from memory I'd respect that

[bloodygood]

I am with ishtob and Oqsy here, cloning of a key that was meant to be in limited supply sounds like stealing the original idea. Clickclack works very hard on the designs and creations, to clone them would be downright stealing and probably make Clickclack unlikely to continue offering any new ideas to us and pull out of the market complety. Who likes creating something very cool and then having someone else clone it to hell i.e those Chinese clones popping up on the market. Create new ideas or similar ideas, but do it yourself and don't hurt others business. I was personally thinking about creating a few special keys for my girlfriend using a mold of my filco keys for base shape since it is generic and then a dremel and sandpaper to shape them myself.

[braaaiiins]

I really don't see how this would hurt their business one bit. If anything, it would spread awareness of where the original design came from. The mold and the clones would not be for sale or trade. I originally said I would trade some "clones" in exchange for letting me borrow the original and I now realize this would be using the clones as a form of barter which would go against my ethics. Instead, I suggest paying straight cash to borrow it.

If I owned a clickclack myself, there would be no question about whether or not I would be ethically right to do whatever I want with it, so long as I did not profit off of it. So what if I owned one and I decided to make some resin casts to deck my keyboard out. Would you look at my keyboard and say I'm a thief?

These clones aren't even really clones, because that would imply they have the same material and construction. These clones would merely be plastic casts. Hobbyists do this all the time don't they? Is it unethical to make a cast of some R/C helicopter parts? I already have the original part and I want to make my own replacement part made out of urethane resin instead of abs plastic. By your logic, I should pay full price for the original product instead of putting in my own time and effort into "cloning" my own.

What if you saw a Van Gogh painting and you wanted to have a picture of it in your living room. Would it be unethical to take a picture of the Van Gogh (assuming people can take pictures of it) and then print it out to put up? It would obviously be unethical to sell the picture, but to keep the picture for yourself? Is there really an issue of ethics here?

[litster]

Yes, please, keep your excuses and justifications coming.

[braaaiiins]

Yes, please, keep your excuses and justifications coming.

You've got so much useful stuff to say. I look forward to your future posts.

[litster]

No really, I would love to see some clickclack clone keycaps from you so you can make good use of your excuses and justifications.  Hurry up and make some already!

[whiskerBox]

Hum, call me crazy, but, could you cast, ahum, a Filco case?  That could really help our Phantom custom keyboard project.

I have really been interested in this myself, the only hurdle that I really see is the crazy amount of clay and silicone needed to make the mold.

[video=youtube_share;FQ1A7ZjTsx8]http://youtu.be/FQ1A7ZjTsx8[/video]

[braaaiiins]

I don't need any excuses to know that I am doing nothing wrong. I had no idea casting objects was such a hot topic. I never thought that making a mold of a piece of jewelry for my own personal use would be looked down on so much.

[Input Nirvana]

Theres's no problem if someone is casting Clickclacks for themselves. Everyone does this in one fashion or another with music, movies, jury-rigging, other misc. DIY stuff.

I"m going to make a set of Kinesis key caps in a color Kinesis doesn't offer. No biggie.

Obviously marketing it would be a poor choice. That's what we keep China around for.

[litster]

Making a copy of a plain keycap is one thing.  Making a copy of a detailed, sculpted, limited quantity keycap that you don't have is different.  I don't necessarily want bra-a-aliens to stop.  But I have a bit of a problem of his self-righteousness.

Let's change the context from keycaps to PC games and music.  This is how the same justification would read:

I really don't see how this would hurt the game studio one bit. If anything, it would spread awareness of where the original game came from. The copy of the game would not be for sale or trade. I originally said I would trade some copies of the game in exchange for letting me borrow the original game and I now realize this would be using the game copies as a form of barter which would go against my ethics. Instead, I suggest paying straight cash to borrow the original game.

If I owned an orginal copy of the game myself, there would be no question about whether or not I would be ethically right to do whatever I want with it, so long as I did not profit off of it. So what if I owned a copy of the game and I decided to make some extra copies to deck other computers out. Would you look at the other computers running a copy of this game and say I'm a thief?

These copies aren't even really copies because that would imply they have the same material and construction. These copies would merely be bits exist on other DVD-Rs. Software pirates do this all the time don't they? Is it unethical to make a copy of some games? I already have the original game and I want to make more copies made out of DVD-Rs instead of stamped, original DVDs. By your logic, I should pay full price for the original game instead of putting in my own time and effort into "cloning" my own copy of the game.

What if you heard a Lady Gaga song on Spotify and you wanted to have a copy of it to play it in your living room. Would it be unethical to download the Lady Gaga song from bit torrent (assuming people can download it from bit torrent) and then put it on your iPod.  It would obviously be unethical to sell the song, but to keep a copy of the song for yourself? Is there really an issue of ethics here?

[Input Nirvana]

Actually I had thought one of ClickClacks skull keys with the entire skull out of red clear and the cap portion black. I think that could look wicked, and if it was lit it might really be something. I'd love to see that, but you can't buy it So, if I were inclined, I wouldn't think twice about trying to modify and existing cap, or re-making one to see if it would really be as neat as I see it in my head.

[Input Nirvana]

Making a copy of a plain keycap is one thing.  Making a copy of a detailed, sculpted, limited quantity keycap that you don't have is different.  I don't necessarily want bra-a-aliens to stop.  But I have a bit of a problem of his self-righteousness.
 Let's change the context from keycaps to PC games and music.  This is how the same justification would read:

I see your point, but in his defense, I think when you are suddenly accused of something inappropriate, it's surprising and the first response is not well thought out or well articulated. So I'm going to let a lot of what he's said slide just for that reason alone. Also, the justifications as well as the examples are arbitrary, so make for a poor argument from either side of the fence. Music is the toughest...you hear it on the radio and tv for free...that's why so many people have such a hard time with the understanding of piracy. I see his point of cloning skull caps as a compliment, and keep in mind he wasn't around when ClickClack was here building relationships, which is why some of us feel territorial about ClickClacks stuff.

And, maybe, he'll see things a little different with some time

[litster]

I actually don't like clickclack keys and don't have any.  I paid stupid amount of money for M15, SSKs, and dye sub keys.  But I never got clickclack keys, not the high resell price.  I get it is kinda cool and unique.  But it is artificially rare because it is not mass produced.  Unlike M15, SSKs, or Cherry dye sub keys,  which aren't being made any more.   The clickclack keys look like skulls and I don't like looking at skulls on my keyboards.  That is just bad, bad fung shui.

Nonetheless, the clickclack guy owns the designs.  He is right here on GH, a fellow GH member.  Why not PM him to ask him if he thinks it is okay to make a mold out of his keycaps?

[ishtob]

lister has a good point, if clickclack gives you permission, then we won't run into any issue

[cactux]

For sure there are several artist around and the can cameup with there own designe. Clickclack for sure is a source of inspiration :-)

[ishtob]

yea, its his stuff that got me thinking about this project in the first place

[Input Nirvana]

I admit the skulls can be somewhat harsh, especially the tri-color ones. I don't want them on my keyboard either, but they are very creative and have a fun look that can liven things up. I appreciate that. And I appreciate ClickClack, just a neat guy. I don't want anything that is bad for him what so ever. But at this point I don't believe someone copying his key caps for themselves and showing pics of the results would be bad for him, but I may be naive. Personally I would much rather buy one or two rather than make them, just because buying makes much more sense. I think trying to copy them might be challenging and fun. I'm still thinking of the black keycap with the red/clear skull though...that could be a keeper!

And sending a pm to ClickClack IS a great idea

[braaaiiins]

The distinction between a piece of art and a tool is completely subjective. Both originate from an artist/entrepreneur, so the same ethical issues apply.

That being said, I have changed the way I think about this - thanks to all of your helpful responses. It would not have been right for me to borrow a plain keycap to make my own knockoffs to use while I did not actually retain ownership of an original (just like copied digital media). Likewise it would not have been right to borrow an artistic keycap and do the same. If I had ownership of the keycap, then I can do whatever I please as long as it did not involve me distributing (giving or selling) knockoffs.

So I guess I'm in the market for a Click Clack now, because I really want to make some replicas!

[braaaiiins]

Just for fun, what do you think of this following hypothetical situation. I'm uncertain how I feel about this myself, so I think it would be interesting to see what you all think.

What If I owned a click clack and several replicas I've made for my own personal use and then sometime in the future I sold the click clack? Should I be morally obligated to destroy the replicas? Or should I just keep and continue using them? Or keep them and not use them?

[litster]

The distinction between a piece of art and a tool is completely subjective. Both originate from an artist/entrepreneur, so the same ethical issues apply.

That being said, I have changed the way I think about this - thanks to all of your helpful responses. It would not have been right for me to borrow a plain keycap to make my own knockoffs to use while I did not actually retain ownership of an original (just like copied digital media). Likewise it would not have been right to borrow an artistic keycap and do the same. If I had ownership of the keycap, then I can do whatever I please as long as it did not involve me distributing (giving or selling) knockoffs.

So I guess I'm in the market for a Click Clack now, because I really want to make some replicas!

braaaiiins, you are a good man.  Hats off to you.  Sorry if I offended you.  :-)

[bloodygood]

Just for fun, what do you think of this following hypothetical situation. I'm uncertain how I feel about this myself, so I think it would be interesting to see what you all think.

What If I owned a click clack and several replicas I've made for my own personal use and then sometime in the future I sold the click clack? Should I be morally obligated to destroy the replicas? Or should I just keep and continue using them? Or keep them and not use them?

If it were me and I owned one original and made replicas for myself, then decided to sell the original. I would then destroy the replicas out of respect for Clickclack. Does it seem like a waste, well no because I used them how I originally intended and got full enjoyment out of them. Am I sad for the loss, well partially but I knew when I decided to sell the original that I was not going to keep the replicas. In the same way I would make backups of a CD/DVD but if I were to sell the original then holding on to the copies would basically be the same as downloading it online and burning it.

[Input Nirvana]

Just for fun, what do you think of this following hypothetical situation. I'm uncertain how I feel about this myself, so I think it would be interesting to see what you all think.

What If I owned a click clack and several replicas I've made for my own personal use and then sometime in the future I sold the click clack? Should I be morally obligated to destroy the replicas? Or should I just keep and continue using them? Or keep them and not use them?

First, your replicas aren't quite ClickClacks due to quality, manufacturing, materials and misc. issues. And you may be making them out of different colors, etc. So it's not the same as making a digital copy of a song. But they do more or less look the same (which is the major portion of the design). That being said I would think that selling off a keyboard that had the ClickClack on it would not be completely relevant to your pseudo-copies, and that you do whatever you want with them (type, make a bra, put in a display case).

But that's just what I think today.

If you do this, what are your thoughts of a black key with a red-clear skull with a light under it? lol

[cactux]

IMHO everybody here is very aware of the implications of any copyright violations, and each individual is responsible for there own acts. That does not mean that people can not be inspired by several artists and techniques , in order to develop there own technique or design.

[hashbaz]

Between this and the SC2 thread we need an ethics subforum.

[cactux]

Between this and the SC2 thread we need an ethics subforum.

right this topic is out of scope in this thread

[Input Nirvana]

 Back to custom casting key caps!

EDIT--- But anytime we are ultimately discussing something that concerns a "geekhacker" I think being off topic or out of scope goes out the window. For the sake of continuity and because it's always THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

[bloodygood]

I am curious about how long it would take to create a full set of custom keycaps using this method for a HHKB style keyboard (the one I am planning on putting together) I believe it will have 62 total keys and need a total of 11 molds. (No backspace mold and no f/j special nub mold) I am guessing it could take quite some time, but on the other hand I could have multiple going at the same time. If I did all special molds at the same time at the beginning, by the second run I would only need to be using 6 out of the 11 each time. Next batch would be 5 and after that it would be a slow process down to just basically 4 each time. I am guessing this is something I would have to dedicate a weekend to.

[cactux]

 Back to custom casting key caps!

EDIT--- But anytime we are ultimately discussing something that concerns a "geekhacker" I think being off topic or out of scope goes out the window. For the sake of continuity and because it's always THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

Lets create another thread and continue this topic there.

[Input Nirvana]

Lets create another thread and continue this topic there.

Do it. But I'm guessing the interest/participation will be pretty low after a couple posts.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'm curious about the actual weight of the casted key caps relative to the original...just for kicks. And different materials to make them from.

One of my thoughts for over a year has been to 'thicken up' a Kinesis Contoured case so it has a more muted sound and feel. I was thinking about using Truck Bed Liner and brushing on the interior. Maybe casting a case would be the real answer since the color could be changed as well.

One thing you had said that I didn't understand, I'm having a hard time visualizing: About key caps fitting on stems, you said you had made a notch...where exactly?

[braaaiiins]

It would take a while to carefully prepare each mold. It sucks to have to make the same mold repeatedly! If you were diligent you could start all 10 molds in a couple of hours depending on how many mold containers you have available. Assuming you got an 18 hour demold time, you need at least 36 hours before you have both halves of each mold made. It's a 2-3 day project just to finish the molds. Now that's assuming you're making all of the molds at the same time. If you're reusing a single mold container to make each mold, well then you're looking at a months worth of work/wait o_O. I definitely don't suggest you trying to make all 10 at once, especially if you've never made a mold before. It's good to get some practice in - silicone is pricey!

input, i just weighed my keys. The clear cap I made is 1.7g and the original kbc poker abs keys is 1.1g. Both keys were weighed with the 50a o-ring installed.

The sound of my casted keycap is awesome! I'm using ergo clears and the upstroke makes a clacking sound. Definitely the most noticable sound when typing. With my casted cap, the sound is dulled down quite a bit. I love it. I wish all of my keys were as quiet. I don't know if this sound reduction comes from the extra weight or the material itself (polyester)

[braaaiiins]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32121[/ATTACH]

Here's my 2nd mold - this time with blue glitter powder added to clear resin. I really like the color. It is a little uneven because I added too much powder so there were some swirls of darker sections in the resin. If I had used less, I think the color would have been more uniform. The two back corners had air pockets this time - I guess I poured it in too quickly. Next time I'll run a paper clip tip along the corners like I do when I fill the stem portion.

I really screwed up on my first clear key. I took a dremel polishing pad to it with no polish and it ate away at the wall rather quickly. Well, good thing I can make more. Any suggestions for what kind of polish I should be using?

Next up is a translucent scarlet. Maybe I'll have the pictures ready  tomorrow afternoon.

[Oqsy]

Meguirs PlastiX comes to mind. Dremel is a bit harsh for plastic polishing. You'll eat up the keys no matter what compound you use. Those things spin FAST and polish steel in seconds.

[Oqsy]

Also, new cap looks like a badass bowling ball