Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:26:47
I've decided to not run this set. I feel like the IC has dragged on a little too long and I've been having issues communicating with Keyreative. These things kind of compounded and left the set in a place where it was losing momentum/hype (quickly) and I've lost the desire to pursue a group buy, unfortunately. May see if I can still get TKC to run the mats or a variant of them, though (for selfish reasons, I want them)! All of the thanks at the bottom of the OP
If you were planning on supporting WoB, please consider supporting KAT Refined or KAT Monochrome!
(https://i.imgur.com/iUnhjHc.png)
Thus, the idea for KAT White on Black was born. It's like the little black dress of the keycap world.
White on Black, Icon mods, reverse dye-subbed PBT, in a profile that fits with everything.
What more could you want? Let me know what you think, excited to hear your thoughts!
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More
(https://i.imgur.com/px8uSez.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0K5y4Ts.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Z7C8XtL.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/dvEmdPZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/v7pOliz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0K5y4Ts.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Z7C8XtL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/e0fUY1V.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/86Uv9ya.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/vhGa1i5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dvEmdPZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/v7pOliz.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/lEHOOvq.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/DH92QDt.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/nWFvsRW.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/4MKrcdx.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/v7h7XeV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AfOxKgM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AfOxKgM.jpg)
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- pour one out
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Special Thanks!
- The TX, 40%, TopClack and Archetype Discords for all of the crucial feedback
- Jason @ TheKey.Company for taking this set on
- MetallicCharles for the dope ass renders
- DixieMech for pushing me to try things I hadn't thought of initially.
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Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:27:05
Post by: bard on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:28:01
Post by: eskimojo on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:30:23
Post by: jrfhoutx on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:31:06
Post by: hughtrue on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:33:39
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: nguyenhimself on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:33:53
You've done a god job making this "simple" set really stand out. Well-done. I'm in!
Post by: psxndc on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:34:39
Post by: nasp on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:35:17
Post by: BlindAssassin111 on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:37:20
Post by: HoodrowThrillson on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:41:07
Post by: KawabataLuis on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:42:16
Post by: eskimojo on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:45:18
Is it any possible to put hiragana sublegends on KAT?
it's possible, but it's hard to pull off sublegends on a spherical profile.
Post by: KawabataLuis on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:47:20
Is it any possible to put hiragana sublegends on KAT?
it's possible, but it's hard to pull off sublegends on a spherical profile.
Got it. I definitely in, regardless, sublegends would just make me love this even more :D
Post by: dingusxmcgee on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:50:26
Post by: ABrotherThatIsUndercover on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:53:51
Post by: mrkantz on Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:57:42
Post by: ja.ze on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:06:39
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Post by: IndyBuck on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:23:22
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Post by: Rensuya on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:25:20
Post by: Popopro on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:26:30
Post by: bobdenard on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:27:55
Post by: KingOfMemes on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:41:37
Looks sweet. Definitely getting a weeb set, but gotta ask: Colevrak option?Asking as well. I'll default to the dirty weeb set, but I'd rather go alphas + colevrak
Post by: fatboycarney on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:45:33
Post by: Minterly on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:48:53
Post by: depletedvespene on Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:59:56
A few random observations:
1) Are all KAT sets going to go with the "let's forget tertiary legends exist!" thing?. It's natural for US English, forgivable for UK English (omitting ¦ is a good thing to do, while omitting € is not ideal but passable) but... more and more difficult to pull off nicely in every other main national layout (German, all Nordic layouts, French, Spanish (both), Portuguese (both), Iberoamerican, Italian, New Italian... not to say anything about Central and Eastern European layouts).
2a) Seems all KAT sets that choose icons are going with ⌦ for the Delete key (excellent), but that begs for the corresponding ⌫ sign for Backspace. Perhaps this should be an option, given the importance icons are given in this IC.
2b) IMNAAAHO, the icon for Insert (a down arrow) needs revising (looks like a misplace Caps Lock). Also, the icons for Print Screen and Pause seem to be swapped in the render. The Scroll Lock icon is unrecognizable (see below for more on this).
2c) I dig that the Alt icon has been mirrored over for the right side. However... since the 1U Alt key is very frequently placed on the right side, perhaps modifiers kit will need a 1U "mirrored icon" Alt key as well.
3a) Why copy the Cherry-style × and ÷ symbols on the numpad? Those keys produce * and / respectively, not the other symbols.
3b) I dig the Lock icon for Num Lock. But it begs the question... why three rather different "lock" symbols for Caps Lock, Num Lock and Scroll Lock? (the latter in need of a revision, as well) Could a common root icon be used for the three of them?
3c) R0 Esc in the numpad&1800 kit seems to be unnecessary (after all, it's already present in the TKL kit).
4) ISO support: UK English is correct (minus the tertiary legends, blah blah). Please consider adding an R3 \| key to complete support for US English over ISO and ANSISO. Also, I like the icon for AltGr.
Post by: Vireca on Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:14:49
Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:16:10
Very interesting.
A few random observations:
1) Are all KAT sets going to go with the "let's forget tertiary legends exist!" thing?. It's natural for US English, forgivable for UK English (omitting ¦ is a good thing to do, while omitting € is not ideal but passable) but... more and more difficult to pull off nicely in every other main national layout (German, all Nordic layouts, French, Spanish (both), Portuguese (both), Iberoamerican, Italian, New Italian... not to say anything about Central and Eastern European layouts).
2a) Seems all KAT sets that choose icons are going with ⌦ for the Delete key (excellent), but that begs for the corresponding ⌫ sign for Backspace. Perhaps this should be an option, given the importance icons are given in this IC.
2b) IMNAAAHO, the icon for Insert (a down arrow) needs revising (looks like a misplace Caps Lock). Also, the icons for Print Screen and Pause seem to be swapped in the render. The Scroll Lock icon is unrecognizable (see below for more on this).
2c) I dig that the Alt icon has been mirrored over for the right side. However... since the 1U Alt key is very frequently placed on the right side, perhaps modifiers kit will need a 1U "mirrored icon" Alt key as well.
3a) Why copy the Cherry-style × and ÷ symbols on the numpad? Those keys produce * and / respectively, not the other symbols.
3b) I dig the Lock icon for Num Lock. But it begs the question... why three rather different "lock" symbols for Caps Lock, Num Lock and Scroll Lock? (the latter in need of a revision, as well) Could a common root icon be used for the three of them?
3c) R0 Esc in the numpad&1800 kit seems to be unnecessary (after all, it's already present in the TKL kit).
4) ISO support: UK English is correct (minus the tertiary legends, blah blah). Please consider adding an R3 \| key to complete support for US English over ISO and ANSISO. Also, I like the icon for AltGr.
Hey there!
1) I can explore tertiary legends for sure if the demand is there. KAT (and most spherical sets) make sublegends and tertiary legends pretty difficult, but I'm always willing to explore it if there is enough demand for something of that nature.
2a) Left-arrow style backspace and box-delete was the preferred icons by many. I have been IC'ing this privately on a handful of larger discords for a few months now and that is where it has netted out. I can explore other options if there is a demand for it though!
2b) I can explore the insert icon for sure. Pretty happy with the rest (Scroll lock) and the location of pause/scroll lock in the renders was a blunder on my part but doesn't really effect the kit breakdown since they are the same row.
2c) Flipped/Mirrored alt was actually a mistake and is currently being fixed by MetallicCharles!
3a) This was an aesthetic decision, I prefer the way they look and took a lot of inspiration from Cherry kits for my icons! I've gotten a good reception to these but if the majority prefers the older style, I can revert :)
3b) I wanted clearly differentiated icons, I can explore the insert icon further though. And will evaluate the others based on demand from the Geekhack community!
3c) For users with the full "calculator style numpads or numpads with additional rows! Just trying to cover all bases.
4) I can look into adding this key!
Now THIS is a way to present feedback. Clear, concise, with an opinion!
Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:17:13
Maybe its just the renders but dont looks like a real WoB like the GMK, black less black and white more near off white
That is a by-product of the set being PBT and dyesub unfortunately! Going to get as close to a neutral black as physically possible (See: Kuro Shiro samples) but ABS will always have an edge when it comes to a "true" black.
Post by: Adelscott on Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:49:15
(This seems like my daily routine for each new KAT set, I apologize for the repetitiveness)
Post by: Banzai on Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:00:26
Now, if this is successful and you decide to follow up it with KAT BoW... well shut up and take my money.
Post by: depletedvespene on Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:04:58
…
Hey there!
1) I can explore tertiary legends for sure if the demand is there. KAT (and most spherical sets) make sublegends and tertiary legends pretty difficult, but I'm always willing to explore it if there is enough demand for something of that nature.
This was meant more as a general comment on KAT. KAT is new, and the stuff the first few successful sets do will surely set the stage for later sets... and if all those currently running go on the "non-tertiary whatsoever" route, it might become more difficult to alter it later, even if this does have the posterior implication of incomplete support for many national layouts.
2a) Left-arrow style backspace and box-delete was the preferred icons by many. I have been IC'ing this privately on a handful of larger discords for a few months now and that is where it has netted out. I can explore other options if there is a demand for it though!
I demand it! I demand it! :thumb:
2c) Flipped/Mirrored alt was actually a mistake and is currently being fixed by MetallicCharles!
:-(
Oh, well...
3a) This was an aesthetic decision, I prefer the way they look and took a lot of inspiration from Cherry kits for my icons! I've gotten a good reception to these but if the majority prefers the older style, I can revert :)
I am the supermajority. 'tis true. Ask around. :cool:
3c) For users with the full "calculator style numpads or numpads with additional rows! Just trying to cover all bases.
Didn't think of that! Keep it on, then.
Post by: ddnomad on Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:33:40
As a fresh SA cult convert I do want more hipro sets and this one looks rad :)
Post by: KingOfMemes on Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:49:57
How different is KAT from SA?
As a fresh SA cult convert I do want more hipro sets and this one looks rad :)
(https://i.imgur.com/d8We4IJ.jpg)
Post by: ddnomad on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:02:24
How different is KAT from SA?
As a fresh SA cult convert I do want more hipro sets and this one looks rad :)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/d8We4IJ.jpg)
Ahh, that’s a handy pic. TYVM. So basically it’s a midpro SA?:D
Count me in on this one then!
Post by: psxndc on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:07:14
Post by: Damage on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:07:37
Post by: harlekein on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:12:29
Post by: belgium_waffles on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:14:57
Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:17:32
The finish on the PBT is glossy/shiny, correct?
KAT profile is super silky matte pbt
Post by: carlouws on Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:38:04
Post by: architones on Thu, 03 October 2019, 17:54:39
Post by: TheAutoManCan on Thu, 03 October 2019, 17:58:32
-The icon for Scroll Lock looks like it would be better suited for Insert. Maybe Scroll Lock could be up-and-down arrows with a bar through the middle or something like that?
-Caps Lock icon just looks upside down in my eyes. Caps Lock is based on the old Shift Lock so I think the open arrow pointed up with a bar underneath makes more sense.
Also, I might be wrong but aren't some of the rows mislabeled on the TKL kit? Based on the Alphas and the Numpad kits the (2u) Backspace row would be R1, the Tab row would be R2, and so on.
Post by: Aerizu on Thu, 03 October 2019, 18:09:55
Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:12:03
Nice set ! Could you add a ISO-FR kit please ?
(This seems like my daily routine for each new KAT set, I apologize for the repetitiveness)
Heya! Definitely something I can consider! I've had a few requests for it.
Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:13:12
Would it be possible to add two 1.5 R4 Super keys in the TKL kit? These would allow a MacOS or a MacOS-like layout in 7u bottom-rows and in WKL when using alt and super in R4 and ctrl in R2.
Hey there! What do you mean by "Super" keys for the 1.5u? Shouldn't the 1.5u alt keys work for that or am I over looking something?
Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:13:46
Interested! Has the KAT profile been tested with reverse dyesub (which is what I'm assuming will be the case here)?
I've gotten photos of some samples, and am waiting on some for myself as well! :D
Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:15:29
Nice! I'm a huge fan of all-icon sets so this is a must buy. Just have a few things to say.
-The icon for Scroll Lock looks like it would be better suited for Insert. Maybe Scroll Lock could be up-and-down arrows with a bar through the middle or something like that?
-Caps Lock icon just looks upside down in my eyes. Caps Lock is based on the old Shift Lock so I think the open arrow pointed up with a bar underneath makes more sense.
Also, I might be wrong but aren't some of the rows mislabeled on the TKL kit? Based on the Alphas and the Numpad kits the (2u) Backspace row would be R1, the Tab row would be R2, and so on.
I'll definitely consider changing those if the ask is there :) I put a lot of effort into the icons so I am glad you are liking them for the most part! Regarding the row profiles, they are correct. The extra R0 in the numpad kit is for users with 1800/compact 1800 style boards since they need an extra set of top-row caps for the numpad cluster.
Post by: ocm on Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:17:25
Any chance we could get the length of the spacebars added to the renders? I'm old, so I can't tell what's a 1.75u and what's a 2u, etc. Thanks!
I can definitely do that! in the meantime though they are 1u, 1.25u, 1.5u, 1.75u, 2u, 2.25u, 2.75u, 3u, and 6u :) basically wanted to cover all bases for non standard blank convex keys (besides the concave 1u, convex 1u looks odd)
Post by: depletedvespene on Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:37:58
Nice! I'm a huge fan of all-icon sets so this is a must buy. Just have a few things to say.
-The icon for Scroll Lock looks like it would be better suited for Insert. Maybe Scroll Lock could be up-and-down arrows with a bar through the middle or something like that?
-Caps Lock icon just looks upside down in my eyes. Caps Lock is based on the old Shift Lock so I think the open arrow pointed up with a bar underneath makes more sense.
Also, I might be wrong but aren't some of the rows mislabeled on the TKL kit? Based on the Alphas and the Numpad kits the (2u) Backspace row would be R1, the Tab row would be R2, and so on.
I'll definitely consider changing those if the ask is there :) I put a lot of effort into the icons so I am glad you are liking them for the most part! Regarding the row profiles, they are correct. The extra R0 in the numpad kit is for users with 1800/compact 1800 style boards since they need an extra set of top-row caps for the numpad cluster.
On Ellipse's F62 project, the artist in charge of drawing the icons has made icon legends with a common root for the three Lock keys. That may be an interesting possibility to consider.
Post by: rondg on Thu, 03 October 2019, 20:39:55
Post by: carlouws on Thu, 03 October 2019, 20:42:08
Would it be possible to add two 1.5 R4 Super keys in the TKL kit? These would allow a MacOS or a MacOS-like layout in 7u bottom-rows and in WKL when using alt and super in R4 and ctrl in R2.
Hey there! What do you mean by "Super" keys for the 1.5u? Shouldn't the 1.5u alt keys work for that or am I over looking something?
I meant the meta/sys/command/win key. The alt key works for sure but it was about having the right symbol in the right place.
Post by: rondg on Thu, 03 October 2019, 20:56:01
That's the only key needed to cover the basic (standard?) 75% layout for alpha + tkl modifier, at least for me.
Post by: nguyenhimself on Thu, 03 October 2019, 21:16:49
2. Since we're already almost there: Any chance of switching ◊ to ⌘? KAT Milkshake did have a Command kit for just that Mac key, though I don't think Windows & Linux users would mind having ⌘ instead of ◊ in all the mod kits :)
(https://i.imgur.com/lMdhm79.png)
Post by: krio on Thu, 03 October 2019, 21:28:05
Post by: TheAutoManCan on Thu, 03 October 2019, 21:37:21
You sure though? In the top section of the TKL Mods kit the Shift row is R3 but for the extra Shift keys on the bottom you have them as R4. The Numpad kit rows are labelled correctly, and since the Num Lock row is R1 then that would mean that the 2u Backspace row should also be R1.Nice! I'm a huge fan of all-icon sets so this is a must buy. Just have a few things to say.
-The icon for Scroll Lock looks like it would be better suited for Insert. Maybe Scroll Lock could be up-and-down arrows with a bar through the middle or something like that?
-Caps Lock icon just looks upside down in my eyes. Caps Lock is based on the old Shift Lock so I think the open arrow pointed up with a bar underneath makes more sense.
Also, I might be wrong but aren't some of the rows mislabeled on the TKL kit? Based on the Alphas and the Numpad kits the (2u) Backspace row would be R1, the Tab row would be R2, and so on.
I'll definitely consider changing those if the ask is there :) I put a lot of effort into the icons so I am glad you are liking them for the most part! Regarding the row profiles, they are correct. The extra R0 in the numpad kit is for users with 1800/compact 1800 style boards since they need an extra set of top-row caps for the numpad cluster.
Post by: kairuwu on Thu, 03 October 2019, 21:54:33
looking forward
Post by: Mcnos on Thu, 03 October 2019, 23:15:10
Post by: Owl on Thu, 03 October 2019, 23:17:57
Post by: nguyenhimself on Fri, 04 October 2019, 01:10:01
this and a second round of alpha for monochrome :cool:Well there's KAT alpha, the first set of this profile. No icon modifier though.
looking forward
Post by: nguyenhimself on Fri, 04 October 2019, 01:12:37
Post by: architones on Fri, 04 October 2019, 01:22:39
Interested! Has the KAT profile been tested with reverse dyesub (which is what I'm assuming will be the case here)?
I've gotten photos of some samples, and am waiting on some for myself as well! :D
Great! Can't wait to see the samples.
Post by: jrs on Fri, 04 October 2019, 01:37:14
Post by: rpiguy9907 on Fri, 04 October 2019, 02:01:21
Post by: Nvmbra on Fri, 04 October 2019, 02:34:34
The current Tab key is in the same row as the number keys. So for the first row of alphas you would have R1(for the mods) and R2(for the alphas) mixed together.
It looks like you moved the rows after the function keys one row further down than need to be.
Any chance to move the R0 1u Del key to the TKL Modifiers kit? ;D
That's the only key needed to cover the basic (standard?) 75% layout for alpha + tkl modifier, at least for me.
I second this after you fixed the rows but I think he means for R1 instead of R0.
There's currently no way to do HHKB/Tsangan layout for example without having mixed rows.
If you fix the rows it would open up more compatibility for 60-75% layouts.
Post by: harlekein on Fri, 04 October 2019, 02:44:42
I don't think Windows & Linux users would mind having ⌘ instead of ◊ in all the mod kits :)
I most certainly would.
Post by: harlekein on Fri, 04 October 2019, 02:45:44
Hangul instead of Hiragana and I'd be interested for sure. Looks good though and people will like it regardless.Full mono hangul kit would be amazing.
Post by: _ODIN_ on Fri, 04 October 2019, 02:59:03
A NorDe kit would be awesome.
Gesendet von meinem H8416 mit Tapatalk
Post by: sevenseacat on Fri, 04 October 2019, 03:30:53
Post by: RETURNISO on Fri, 04 October 2019, 03:38:42
+1 for a Norde kit :thumb:
Post by: nguyenhimself on Fri, 04 October 2019, 05:15:51
Unlike the Windows key, ⌘ is a pretty... neutral icon, no?
I don't think Windows & Linux users would mind having ⌘ instead of ◊ in all the mod kits :)
I most certainly would.
Post by: ocm on Fri, 04 October 2019, 05:23:51
You sure though? In the top section of the TKL Mods kit the Shift row is R3 but for the extra Shift keys on the bottom you have them as R4. The Numpad kit rows are labelled correctly, and since the Num Lock row is R1 then that would mean that the 2u Backspace row should also be R1.Nice! I'm a huge fan of all-icon sets so this is a must buy. Just have a few things to say.
-The icon for Scroll Lock looks like it would be better suited for Insert. Maybe Scroll Lock could be up-and-down arrows with a bar through the middle or something like that?
-Caps Lock icon just looks upside down in my eyes. Caps Lock is based on the old Shift Lock so I think the open arrow pointed up with a bar underneath makes more sense.
Also, I might be wrong but aren't some of the rows mislabeled on the TKL kit? Based on the Alphas and the Numpad kits the (2u) Backspace row would be R1, the Tab row would be R2, and so on.
I'll definitely consider changing those if the ask is there :) I put a lot of effort into the icons so I am glad you are liking them for the most part! Regarding the row profiles, they are correct. The extra R0 in the numpad kit is for users with 1800/compact 1800 style boards since they need an extra set of top-row caps for the numpad cluster.
I am so dumb lol you are right those are definitely misnumbered
Post by: ocm on Fri, 04 October 2019, 05:27:57
Aren't the rows numbered wrong in the TKL mod kit?
The current Tab key is in the same row as the number keys. So for the first row of alphas you would have R1(for the mods) and R2(for the alphas) mixed together.
It looks like you moved the rows after the function keys one row further down than need to be.Any chance to move the R0 1u Del key to the TKL Modifiers kit? ;D
That's the only key needed to cover the basic (standard?) 75% layout for alpha + tkl modifier, at least for me.
I second this after you fixed the rows but I think he means for R1 instead of R0.
There's currently no way to do HHKB/Tsangan layout for example without having mixed rows.
If you fix the rows it would open up more compatibility for 60-75% layouts.
Yep I'm dumb and misnumbered the rows lol going to get that fixed asap. I'm not sure what is preventing hhkb/Tsangan at the moment since the R2 backspace and R1 tilde and pipe/slash keys are included. Is there a Tsangan variant that uses a 1u delete in R1?
Post by: Magnificent Bureaucrat on Fri, 04 October 2019, 06:08:22
I can see this looking really clean on my gingham build.
Post by: raptorzoz on Fri, 04 October 2019, 06:22:20
Very interested!
+1 for a Norde kit :thumb:
seconding this, Norde would be a great addition
Post by: Adelscott on Fri, 04 October 2019, 06:37:15
Nice set ! Could you add a ISO-FR kit please ?
(This seems like my daily routine for each new KAT set, I apologize for the repetitiveness)
Heya! Definitely something I can consider! I've had a few requests for it.
In the name of the true baguette people : thanks :thumb:
Post by: Nvmbra on Fri, 04 October 2019, 06:47:01
Aren't the rows numbered wrong in the TKL mod kit?
The current Tab key is in the same row as the number keys. So for the first row of alphas you would have R1(for the mods) and R2(for the alphas) mixed together.
It looks like you moved the rows after the function keys one row further down than need to be.Any chance to move the R0 1u Del key to the TKL Modifiers kit? ;D
That's the only key needed to cover the basic (standard?) 75% layout for alpha + tkl modifier, at least for me.
I second this after you fixed the rows but I think he means for R1 instead of R0.
There's currently no way to do HHKB/Tsangan layout for example without having mixed rows.
If you fix the rows it would open up more compatibility for 60-75% layouts.
Yep I'm dumb and misnumbered the rows lol going to get that fixed asap. I'm not sure what is preventing hhkb/Tsangan at the moment since the R2 backspace and R1 tilde and pipe/slash keys are included. Is there a Tsangan variant that uses a 1u delete in R1?
That was only an example for the misnumbered rows. If they're getting fixed it's all good.
The R1 Delete key is used on 65% or 75% layouts, if you look at some renders of GMK sets you should be able to see what I mean.
Anyway, definitely in for at least one set.
Post by: ocm on Fri, 04 October 2019, 06:57:12
Aren't the rows numbered wrong in the TKL mod kit?
The current Tab key is in the same row as the number keys. So for the first row of alphas you would have R1(for the mods) and R2(for the alphas) mixed together.
It looks like you moved the rows after the function keys one row further down than need to be.Any chance to move the R0 1u Del key to the TKL Modifiers kit? ;D
That's the only key needed to cover the basic (standard?) 75% layout for alpha + tkl modifier, at least for me.
I second this after you fixed the rows but I think he means for R1 instead of R0.
There's currently no way to do HHKB/Tsangan layout for example without having mixed rows.
If you fix the rows it would open up more compatibility for 60-75% layouts.
Yep I'm dumb and misnumbered the rows lol going to get that fixed asap. I'm not sure what is preventing hhkb/Tsangan at the moment since the R2 backspace and R1 tilde and pipe/slash keys are included. Is there a Tsangan variant that uses a 1u delete in R1?
That was only an example for the misnumbered rows. If they're getting fixed it's all good.
The R1 Delete key is used on 65% or 75% layouts, if you look at some renders of GMK sets you should be able to see what I mean.
Anyway, definitely in for at least one set.
I fixed the rows for the TKL kit, does everything look kosher now? I still need to add the delete, but hopefully it makes more sense now
Post by: depletedvespene on Fri, 04 October 2019, 07:52:51
Unlike the Windows key, ⌘ is a pretty... neutral icon, no?
I don't think Windows & Linux users would mind having ⌘ instead of ◊ in all the mod kits :)
I most certainly would.
NO (YMMV).
For some of us, the ⌘ symbol is totally and utterly tied to Apple, second only to the bitten apple symbol in brand association.
Post by: harlekein on Fri, 04 October 2019, 07:53:51
Agreed. I don't want windows keys and I certainly don't want apple keys.Unlike the Windows key, ⌘ is a pretty... neutral icon, no?
I don't think Windows & Linux users would mind having ⌘ instead of ◊ in all the mod kits :)
I most certainly would.
NO (YMMV).
For some of us, the ⌘ symbol is totally and utterly tied to Apple, second only to the bitten apple symbol in brand association.
Post by: depletedvespene on Fri, 04 October 2019, 08:09:24
…
I fixed the rows for the TKL kit, does everything look kosher now? I still need to add the delete, but hopefully it makes more sense now
Ok, here I go again.
Alphas: no issues.
Hiragana alphas: don't know enough to make an informed comment.
TKL modifiers: most of the stuff needed for 75% and 65% is there... EXCEPT R0 Insert and Delete keys, which ARE used a lot in 75% keyboards. The are both on on the next kit (numpad and 1800), but I'm not sure if they should reside there instead of inthe TKL modifiers kit.
Heck, note that "TKL modifiers" is a misnomer, as this set supports TKL, 60%, 65% and (almost completely) 75%.
While we're at it: as long as KAT is still in early stages and there is some wiggle room to play around, consider adding 1.5U R0 Esc and Delete keys (as is done in Vortex keyboards) to this kit.
ISO: Did I mention the need to add the R3 \| key, for full US English over ISO or ANSISO support? If not or if so, don't forget to add the R3 \| key, for full US English over ISO or ANSISO support. Because having the R3 \| key, for full US English over ISO or ANSISO support is, like, quite important and stuff.
P.S.: add the R3 \| key, for full US English over ISO or ANSISO support. Thanks. :thumb:
And if you're really feeling generous, add an R4 <> key as well, so both traditions of US English over ISO (but not ANSISO, duh) can be covered.
Ergo/40s/ortho: don't know enough to make an informed comment.
Post by: JSaintS on Fri, 04 October 2019, 08:14:48
R5 is at the top and it goes down to R0. Milkshake had this wrong.
Post by: KingOfMemes on Fri, 04 October 2019, 08:19:23
As an Arch user myself, not only would I mind ⌘ instead of ◊, I am actually offended that you had the audacity to even suggest the ⌘ symbol is neutral. It's a symbol of evil, corporate, proprietary, closed source software, which big strong daddy Stallman has fought tooth and nail to free the layman from. Placing the ⌘ key would show great disrespect to the perfect 100iq society and movement of FOSS. It would be no different than flying an offensive flag, or tattooing a scarlet letter upon my bosom.Unlike the Windows key, ⌘ is a pretty... neutral icon, no?
I don't think Windows & Linux users would mind having ⌘ instead of ◊ in all the mod kits :)
I most certainly would.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: depletedvespene on Fri, 04 October 2019, 08:23:59
Before going any further, can I just say that all rows are wrong?
R5 is at the top and it goes down to R0. Milkshake had this wrong.
That's another thing that needs to be corrected as soon as possible, so future KAT sets won't run into errors. I suggest that we all agree on naming the rows on KAT sets as "Kn" instead of "Rn", so there will be no ambiguities as to which row is anyone referring to.
Post by: ocm on Fri, 04 October 2019, 09:46:57
Before going any further, can I just say that all rows are wrong?
R5 is at the top and it goes down to R0. Milkshake had this wrong.
Hey JSaintS!
I was trying to follow Biip's lead and get the row naming more closely aligned with what we are used to with GMK/SP/JTK and the like. If this is an issue, I can definitely remedy it.
Post by: JSaintS on Fri, 04 October 2019, 09:51:12
Before going any further, can I just say that all rows are wrong?
R5 is at the top and it goes down to R0. Milkshake had this wrong.
Hey JSaintS!
I was trying to follow Biip's lead and get the row naming more closely aligned with what we are used to with GMK/SP/JTK and the like. If this is an issue, I can definitely remedy it.
I did the same with my kits at first ^^ I sent them to Alex for quoting and he informed me that they were wrong. I do not think it is a huge problem, but for future keyset designers that will check previous KAT sets for reference and for quoting, I think it is "important" :) (everything that speeds up the quoting process is a plus imo, specially given the fact that we have zFrontier as a middle man and it's not direct conversation with the manufacturer)
Post by: Popopro on Fri, 04 October 2019, 10:52:42
Post by: merutz on Fri, 04 October 2019, 12:05:13
Post by: ocm on Fri, 04 October 2019, 12:43:54
Zfrontier gonna be a proxy for this?
Yep! Zfrontier is the point of contact with Keyreative and I believe proxies all KAT/KAM profile sets.
Post by: Kevadu on Fri, 04 October 2019, 12:44:44
I don't think Windows & Linux users would mind having ⌘ instead of ◊ in all the mod kits :)
I most certainly would.
I would as well.
Post by: Popopro on Fri, 04 October 2019, 13:44:08
Zfrontier gonna be a proxy for this?
Yep! Zfrontier is the point of contact with Keyreative and I believe proxies all KAT/KAM profile sets.
Nice! Makes this set so much more accessible for me then. Definitely in for this!
Post by: rondg on Fri, 04 October 2019, 14:36:43
I second this after you fixed the rows but I think he means for R1 instead of R0.
I actually do mean R0. I always put my Del key to the upper right corner, same row with the function keys.
Post by: psxndc on Fri, 04 October 2019, 16:51:17
... which big strong daddy Stallman has fought tooth and nail to free the layman from. ...
You mean this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ)?
I appreciate that he wrote emacs, but, dude.... gross.
Post by: Nvmbra on Sat, 05 October 2019, 06:16:54
I fixed the rows for the TKL kit, does everything look kosher now? I still need to add the delete, but hopefully it makes more sense now
Looks good to me!
I second this after you fixed the rows but I think he means for R1 instead of R0.
I actually do mean R0. I always put my Del key to the upper right corner, same row with the function keys.
Alright my bad, the assumption came from WoB Hiragana but I forgot the rows are different there.
Post by: OmniSzron on Sat, 05 October 2019, 09:02:17
Didn't he also support some pedophile associated with Jeffrey Epstein? Dude is dodgy AF.... which big strong daddy Stallman has fought tooth and nail to free the layman from. ...
You mean this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ)?
I appreciate that he wrote emacs, but, dude.... gross.
But back to the set, though. This is a brilliant set, but I don't think I can justify getting another right after getting 8008 and Milkshake. Those deskmats, tho. They do look spicy.
Post by: ocm on Sat, 05 October 2019, 16:46:51
Things I'm working on -
Command kit for Mac keys (2 1u, 2 1.25u, and 2 1.5u)
Colevrak kik
International kit
ISO-FR kit
Things I'm not working on -
Text mods
More/different legend alpha kits
Post by: Zilleon on Sat, 05 October 2019, 17:21:53
Mini update -Very excited to hear about the Colevrak kit!
Things I'm working on -
Command kit for Mac keys (2 1u, 2 1.25u, and 2 1.5u)
Colevrak kik
International kit
ISO-FR kit
Things I'm not working on -
Text mods
More/different legend alpha kits
Thank you so much!
Post by: psxndc on Sat, 05 October 2019, 20:57:30
Nice OCM novelty there. Way to imprint yourself in the hobby 4 eva
Is the plan to actually have an OCM novelty? Because I'm honestly digging it. Thanks for at least considering Colevrak btw.
Post by: lush_bunny on Sat, 05 October 2019, 21:02:16
Post by: asianfork on Sat, 05 October 2019, 21:44:49
Post by: C7Kinetic on Sat, 05 October 2019, 22:47:04
Post by: deLEES on Thu, 17 October 2019, 11:36:36
Post by: saint_james on Sat, 26 October 2019, 03:50:20
Post by: stoffelduss on Sat, 26 October 2019, 06:13:40
Post by: Senor Coconut on Sat, 26 October 2019, 07:57:15
Post by: dvorcol on Sat, 26 October 2019, 13:57:54
Mini update -
Things I'm working on -
Command kit for Mac keys (2 1u, 2 1.25u, and 2 1.5u)
Colevrak kik
International kit
ISO-FR kit
Things I'm not working on -
Text mods
More/different legend alpha kits
+1 for Colevrak. Please consider a Colevrak+ content to support many alternative layouts. More detail here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101187.msg2786467#msg2786467).
(https://i.imgur.com/viDKK4X.png)
Edit: added one R3 for Wide mod.
Post by: Senor Coconut on Sat, 26 October 2019, 14:02:09
music to my ears!
Post by: kmfmppl on Sat, 26 October 2019, 15:49:59
Things I'm working on -
International kit
:thumb:
Post by: IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES on Sat, 26 October 2019, 16:05:16
Post by: bliss on Sat, 26 October 2019, 16:50:50
Please consider adding an R3 \| key to complete support for US English over ISO and ANSISO.
+1
Looks very clean, Hiraganas are a dream, and definitely keep the OCM novelty!
Thank you for ISO support, which is a small extra for the buyer, but greatly boosts compatibility and future proofs the investment :thumb:
Post by: selectallfrom on Sun, 27 October 2019, 16:15:13
Post by: Senor Coconut on Sun, 27 October 2019, 17:34:40
Mini update -:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Things I'm working on -
Command kit for Mac keys (2 1u, 2 1.25u, and 2 1.5u)
(…)
ISO-FR kit
Things I'm not working on -
Text mods
More/different legend alpha kits
Post by: geekit on Sun, 27 October 2019, 17:52:18
Post by: eyedrop on Sun, 27 October 2019, 19:54:37
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Post by: lolafineday on Mon, 28 October 2019, 01:54:43
Can we get an extra B for the Alice type layout?Please give B
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Post by: dvorcol on Tue, 29 October 2019, 12:18:47
Mini update -
Things I'm working on -
Command kit for Mac keys (2 1u, 2 1.25u, and 2 1.5u)
Colevrak kik
International kit
ISO-FR kit
Things I'm not working on -
Text mods
More/different legend alpha kits
+1 for Colevrak. Please consider a Colevrak+ content to support many alternative layouts. More detail here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101187.msg2786467#msg2786467).Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hZz3bso.png)
Small revision to my Colevrak+ suggestion. Add an R3 ]} to support Wide mod (https://i.imgur.com/9vME99j.png), which works on any layout that uses QWERTY-standard punctuation (in this list only Dvorak does not).
(https://i.imgur.com/viDKK4X.png)
I revised the picture in my post above, too.
Post by: deacon on Wed, 30 October 2019, 11:16:41
basically wanted to cover all bases for non standard blank convex keys (besides the concave 1u, convex 1u looks odd)
Convex 1u caps feel so good!
Please consider converting the concave 1u caps in the Ortho Modifier kit to convex even if you make both in Spacebars concave. I use them instead of the Lower/Raise keys and shine the GMK equivalent caps in weeks they get used so much.
I've been waiting for a KAT WOB but I'll jump on KAT Eternal if I have to for the 1u convex caps.
Post by: vsrnth on Wed, 30 October 2019, 11:43:24
Mini update -
Things I'm working on -
Command kit for Mac keys (2 1u, 2 1.25u, and 2 1.5u)
Colevrak kik
International kit
ISO-FR kit
Things I'm not working on -
Text mods
More/different legend alpha kits
+1 for Colevrak. Please consider a Colevrak+ content to support many alternative layouts. More detail here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101187.msg2786467#msg2786467).Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/hZz3bso.png)
Small revision to my Colevrak+ suggestion. Add an R3 ]} to support Wide mod (https://i.imgur.com/9vME99j.png), which works on any layout that uses QWERTY-standard punctuation (in this list only Dvorak does not).Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/KmcdWEg.png)
I revised the picture in my post above, too.
+1 for what dvorcol said
Post by: Popopro on Wed, 30 October 2019, 14:24:27
Can we get an extra B for the Alice type layout?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Perhaps also an extra "B" for the hiragana kits?
Post by: danbee on Thu, 31 October 2019, 13:26:51
Mini update -
Things I'm working on -
Command kit for Mac keys (2 1u, 2 1.25u, and 2 1.5u)
Colevrak kik
International kit
ISO-FR kit
Things I'm not working on -
Text mods
More/different legend alpha kits
Is it too late to add a request for the International/ISO/Mac kit? Can we get an R4 ` and ~ key? This key is present next to left shift on Mac UK keyboards and it's super hard to get.
(https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/skimmed-squiggly-wackiness-subject-sprain/backtick-tilde.png)
Post by: danbee on Thu, 31 October 2019, 13:44:25
(https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/skimmed-squiggly-wackiness-subject-sprain/section-plusminus.png)
These are the only two keys you'd need to add for full UK Mac coverage.
Btw, this keyset looks dope!
Post by: macclack on Thu, 31 October 2019, 16:50:00
Post by: harlekein on Fri, 01 November 2019, 03:16:35
Can we get an extra B for the Alice type layout?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Perhaps also an extra "B" for the hiragana kits?
In split bars kit?
Post by: lolafineday on Fri, 01 November 2019, 05:15:06
Would make sense.Can we get an extra B for the Alice type layout?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Perhaps also an extra "B" for the hiragana kits?
In split bars kit?
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Post by: nathanchere on Fri, 01 November 2019, 08:31:26
Post by: Popopro on Fri, 01 November 2019, 09:39:02
Can we get an extra B for the Alice type layout?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Perhaps also an extra "B" for the hiragana kits?
In split bars kit?
A lot of sets are putting them there.
Post by: voight-kampff on Sat, 02 November 2019, 13:11:33
Post by: LoneRegiment on Sat, 02 November 2019, 14:21:49
Aren't the rows numbered wrong in the TKL mod kit?
The current Tab key is in the same row as the number keys. So for the first row of alphas you would have R1(for the mods) and R2(for the alphas) mixed together.
It looks like you moved the rows after the function keys one row further down than need to be.Any chance to move the R0 1u Del key to the TKL Modifiers kit? ;D
That's the only key needed to cover the basic (standard?) 75% layout for alpha + tkl modifier, at least for me.
I second this after you fixed the rows but I think he means for R1 instead of R0.
There's currently no way to do HHKB/Tsangan layout for example without having mixed rows.
If you fix the rows it would open up more compatibility for 60-75% layouts.
Yep I'm dumb and misnumbered the rows lol going to get that fixed asap. I'm not sure what is preventing hhkb/Tsangan at the moment since the R2 backspace and R1 tilde and pipe/slash keys are included. Is there a Tsangan variant that uses a 1u delete in R1?
That was only an example for the misnumbered rows. If they're getting fixed it's all good.
The R1 Delete key is used on 65% or 75% layouts, if you look at some renders of GMK sets you should be able to see what I mean.
Anyway, definitely in for at least one set.
I fixed the rows for the TKL kit, does everything look kosher now? I still need to add the delete, but hopefully it makes more sense now
The 40's mod kit is off by a row currently: R1 R2 R3 R4 R4 R4
it should be: R2 R3 R4 R4 R4 R4
Post by: dakanya on Sun, 03 November 2019, 11:21:14
Post by: DMacKB on Sun, 03 November 2019, 21:06:23
I’d love those 3 escape keys in ortho kit to be skullies.
Post by: Tefrem34 on Tue, 05 November 2019, 04:29:51
Post by: Senor Coconut on Sun, 10 November 2019, 07:38:47
— If the ISO FR option is added, as mentioned earlier, count me in.
— Did you consider a Deskmat option with the skull (black, white, or both) as a pattern?
Post by: vsrnth on Sun, 10 November 2019, 22:54:37
Post by: voight-kampff on Sun, 01 December 2019, 06:17:50
Is there some news about this?
Post by: ocm on Sun, 01 December 2019, 10:37:19
When will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^
Post by: Hell-es on Sun, 01 December 2019, 12:38:15
Thanks for takmg your time - with 7V and Dawn coming up - its good to have some time to gather the budget ;) ... and atlantis ... and space cadetWhen will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^
Post by: Adelscott on Sun, 01 December 2019, 17:31:35
I want this set very bad. Please make it happenWhen will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^
Post by: OmniSzron on Mon, 02 December 2019, 05:33:43
The GB was delayed to March 2020That's actually all right for me. I wanted to check out KAT Milkshake before I commit to another KAT set.
Post by: Hell-es on Mon, 02 December 2019, 09:10:47
+1 with so many interesting KAT sets coming up - really want to get hands on milkshake firstThe GB was delayed to March 2020That's actually all right for me. I wanted to check out KAT Milkshake before I commit to another KAT set.
Post by: Senor Coconut on Tue, 03 December 2019, 15:08:04
I love it when a designer takes the time to compose a nice ISO FR kit ;DI want this set very bad. Please make it happenWhen will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^Show Image(https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji28.png)
Post by: selectallfrom on Tue, 03 December 2019, 15:56:40
When will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^
I'd loved to see some RAMA artisans.
Post by: eniigma on Tue, 03 December 2019, 16:11:07
rama is cherry r1, not KAT afaikWhen will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^
I'd loved to see some RAMA artisans.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: KingOfMemes on Tue, 03 December 2019, 16:20:10
RAMA did a collab with KAT milkshake: https://novelkeys.xyz/products/kat-milkshake-gb?variant=29232048635997rama is cherry r1, not KAT afaikWhen will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^
I'd loved to see some RAMA artisans.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: selectallfrom on Tue, 03 December 2019, 17:43:00
RAMA did a collab with KAT milkshake: https://novelkeys.xyz/products/kat-milkshake-gb?variant=29232048635997rama is cherry r1, not KAT afaikWhen will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^
I'd loved to see some RAMA artisans.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
That’s the one I picked for this kit before the hint of a possible artisan from OP. However I’d be down for any artisan though even if it wasn’t a collab with RAMA.
Post by: Funkzilla on Sun, 08 December 2019, 00:50:09
Post by: jf908 on Mon, 09 December 2019, 19:43:14
Is it too late to add a request for the International/ISO/Mac kit? Can we get an R4 ` and ~ key? This key is present next to left shift on Mac UK keyboards and it's super hard to get.Show Image(https://f001.backblazeb2.com/file/skimmed-squiggly-wackiness-subject-sprain/backtick-tilde.png)
This key is so rare that I think I would get the set just for this.
Post by: belgium_waffles on Fri, 27 December 2019, 18:25:13
Post by: delet_d on Sat, 28 December 2019, 01:46:50
Post by: Beerbezerker on Sat, 28 December 2019, 15:57:22
please consider daily clack as oce vendor thanks
+1 to this!
Post by: USRapt0r on Sat, 28 December 2019, 21:32:31
Post by: grav3serker on Sun, 29 December 2019, 01:22:51
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Post by: deLEES on Thu, 02 January 2020, 05:44:26
please consider daily clack as oce vendor thanks
Another +1 for this.
Post by: Bl4ck on Fri, 03 January 2020, 13:29:01
Edit: If your looking for Artisan Cables, consider talking to Summit Cables (amazing cables must say)
Post by: vudu on Thu, 09 January 2020, 10:50:09
Post by: demonahz on Thu, 09 January 2020, 14:42:41
Post by: Rilow on Thu, 09 January 2020, 15:19:43
Post by: RETURNISO on Thu, 09 January 2020, 18:47:47
Nordic set and I'm in. Other KAT sets have it.
check update below :)
Mini update -
Things I'm working on -
Command kit for Mac keys (2 1u, 2 1.25u, and 2 1.5u)
Colevrak kik
International kit
ISO-FR kit
Things I'm not working on -
Text mods
More/different legend alpha kits
Post by: Vireca on Sat, 11 January 2020, 01:58:16
Post by: kungpaogao on Fri, 17 January 2020, 11:49:45
Post by: eggplant-chan- on Fri, 17 January 2020, 20:04:43
Post by: i luv chuletas on Tue, 04 February 2020, 22:50:01
Post by: chanchan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 01:14:43
Post by: AspiringMechKeebFan on Wed, 05 February 2020, 06:13:19
Post by: Shutter_Shock on Wed, 05 February 2020, 11:18:58
Post by: KingOfMemes on Wed, 05 February 2020, 11:37:02
Normally not into too-understated sets, but this is actually really clean with the Hiragana. Might in for this, good luck with everything!I've always found that white on black looks dull and boring until you put it on a keyboard.
Post by: hottrout on Thu, 06 February 2020, 03:43:33
Post by: Adelscott on Thu, 06 February 2020, 05:07:19
Post by: Senor Coconut on Thu, 06 February 2020, 13:40:43
Please make ISO-FR happen !+1
Post by: easy_rider on Mon, 10 February 2020, 02:50:04
I like the hiragana alphas + the symbol mods. This has great potential!
Post by: Magas on Tue, 25 February 2020, 17:39:06
Post by: Senor Coconut on Wed, 26 February 2020, 01:58:10
No news since December, is this still on? Are the announced updates still on? The GB was supposed to be in March.When will the GB start?
Is there some news about this?
Heyo! No big news, apologies for the silence on this thread. The GB was delayed to March 2020 (based on TKC's schedule and availability) so I'm taking my time and really making sure I get kits, samples, renders, deskmats, and maybe some artisans right ^-^
@OneCreativeMind, any news would be welcomed.
Post by: ocm on Wed, 26 February 2020, 05:18:57
- the set is being delayed temporarily due to a few factors (namely the China wide closures and production delays) but we are hoping for April
- I'm waiting on updated renders that A) better reflect the color that Keyreative was able to pull off and B) taken into consideration the feedback from here
- Speaking of kits, I've worked up international kits, added the option for 60/tkl text mods, and added an R3 skull into the 40s and ortho kits
News and updates will be provided as I have them :)
- ocm.
Post by: MikeTheTiger on Wed, 26 February 2020, 06:56:44
Post by: synthtastic on Mon, 02 March 2020, 20:14:53
Post by: rondg on Mon, 02 March 2020, 21:28:06
Post by: Joaquox on Tue, 03 March 2020, 02:10:09
Post by: konstantin on Tue, 10 March 2020, 18:53:16
Kits
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Hi, I see a few issues with the icon modifiers, most notably the Caps Lock, Function and Insert icons. We discussed this over in the KAT Arctic (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=104627.msg2874001#msg2874001) thread, but I'll summarize it here since Mcnos mentioned you were the author of these particular icon legends.
Since it looks like these might become the de facto standard icons for KAT sets, I'd like to see these issues addressed before this set, as well as Arctic and Ice Dragon, move into production.
Caps Lock icon:
I'd suggest using an upwards-facing barred arrow (⇪) for the Caps legend. A downwards-facing one doesn't make sense to me. The Caps icon is usually a variation of the Shift icon: ⇪ is one such variation, and ⇩ is another. However, that makes the upside-down barred ⇪ (there's no Unicode symbol for it) a double variation, which at that point is too far removed from the ⇧ icon imo.
I have seen no other set that uses a downward-facing arrow with bar for Caps Lock. This is not a standard nor common icon. Upward-facing arrow with bar, on the other hand, is a standard Caps Lock icon. Not only have we been seeing it in recent GMK sets (8008, 9009, MoDoL), but it's also been present in touch interfaces and phone keyboards for years. In fact, it's the de facto standard Caps Lock icon on phone keyboards as most major phone keyboards (iOS default, Android default, SwiftKey, Gboard) use it.Show Image(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wkmW2LwdbmY/hqdefault.jpg)Show Image(https://i0.wp.com/cybermaohi.com/iT3k/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/android_typing_tips_caps_lock-100538030-medium.jpg)Show Image(https://support.swiftkey.com/hc/article_attachments/360000805325/swiftkey-settings-cog.jpg)Show Image(https://www.keyboardapps.net/image/cache/catalog/gboard/gboard-capslock-350x450.png)
Function icon:
I don't like the icon you chose to represent Function. It looks more like the standard Page Up symbol, ⭻. How about using a symbol like ≡ instead, representing layers? You see this in sets like GMK MoDo and others.
Insert icon:
The Insert icon may look better as ⎀ or, if you want to avoid lettering altogether, ⌵.
The current Insert icon is another one that's not common — at least not as a legend for Insert. In fact, the upside-down Shift arrow is a popular Caps Lock icon legend, as I'm sure you know. The most common Insert icon legend would probably be ⌵ (e.g. GMK Darling) or ⎀ (e.g. GMK Red Honey), as mentioned earlier. I think ⌵ looks nicer than the ⇩, so maybe consider using that for this set.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/wMGggxQ.png)
Delete icon:
I think the Delete icon may look better as ⭢, so it matches the Backspace.
Meanwhile, I think the Backspace icon may look better as ⌫, so it matches the Delete.
Hiragana alphas:
Another issue I noticed is that you have the kana べ and ぺ representing the (han)dakuten keys (corresponding to [{, ]} keys in ANSI). However, those diacritics can be applied to several kana, not just へ, so those symbols should probably be ゛ and ゜ instead.
Post by: Adelscott on Wed, 11 March 2020, 07:48:08
Sorry for the radio silence. Life has been busy and I try to save updates for bigger news and there hasn't been a ton. A few notes on the set:Is ISO-FR still possible ? I know you won't sell hundreds but some of us are really praying for this.
- the set is being delayed temporarily due to a few factors (namely the China wide closures and production delays) but we are hoping for April
- I'm waiting on updated renders that A) better reflect the color that Keyreative was able to pull off and B) taken into consideration the feedback from here
- Speaking of kits, I've worked up international kits, added the option for 60/tkl text mods, and added an R3 skull into the 40s and ortho kits
News and updates will be provided as I have them :)
- ocm.
Post by: Dash on Wed, 11 March 2020, 07:52:39
I've been on the hunt for a decent Ergodox layout that isn't gimmicky, profiled (+1 for KAT), and not full of blanks, ISO/UK keys. Having some profile on the thumb cluster too is fantastic. This seems to hit the nail on the head, almost. My reservations are the legends on the dox modifiers, noting that the ergodox is usually custom mapped:
- Row 2 outer keys are too prescriptive, there needs to be more choice of generic keys. I'm unsure why there is a ]} key on that outside edge with no corresponding {[ key (is this a common arrangement?).
- Too many arrows, especially R3 left side. Just so many, I know people use a lot of layer shifting and arrows can make sense, but no other options makes it quite restrictive. This issue combined with the above means on the inner keys you're really constrained with having keys that make sense.
I really like the legends on the the 1u keys (diamonds, menus and lines), and the escape. This is exactly the sort of thing I'm referring to above, they don't really mean anything, but are unique and visually identifiable.
There are heaps of interesting glyphs in the unicode space that might make work really well (some of these may not display due to fonts): ⁂ ↀ ⎈𝜆⨝🖮 etc., maybe even just some other simple shapes.
Post by: bliss on Fri, 20 March 2020, 09:19:22
Post by: nguyenhimself on Mon, 23 March 2020, 03:39:26
Post by: DrHigsby on Sat, 28 March 2020, 14:56:19
Post by: ocm on Sat, 28 March 2020, 15:04:33
Hey OCM, any updates on this project? :cool:
Heyo DrHigsby! Hoping to have some news soon :) waiting on a third round of samples from Keyreative, renders of my new kitting, and confirmations on pricing/timeline from Keyreative. Like most things right now, there are some delays :(
Post by: DrHigsby on Sat, 28 March 2020, 15:56:51
Hey OCM, any updates on this project? :cool:
Heyo DrHigsby! Hoping to have some news soon :) waiting on a third round of samples from Keyreative, renders of my new kitting, and confirmations on pricing/timeline from Keyreative. Like most things right now, there are some delays :(
Delays are totally fine! Excited to see this project hit GB (still in love with SA Leviathan btw. Would love to see that set come to KAT one of these days).
Post by: season on Mon, 30 March 2020, 06:43:44
So many nice KAT sets lately.
Post by: stoffelduss on Mon, 30 March 2020, 10:46:09
Post by: Joaquox on Mon, 30 March 2020, 11:14:55
I'd love it if you could put the 6.25 spacebar with the alphas instead of the different mod kits. Reason is I want to combine these alphas with different KAT mods, I don't like icon mods. Except for ortho, 6.25u is in all mod kits anyway so it makes only a very small differenceWell as an ortho user, I don't want a spacebar that I won't use.
I think it's a better philosophy to keep the kits specific, and small, so the cost of buying additional kits will not be higher than needed. That way most people get what they want for as little money as possible.
Same thing with a lot of KAT sets mixing stagger 40% with 40% ortho, which makes absolutely no sense.
Post by: depletedvespene on Mon, 30 March 2020, 11:32:10
Post by: depletedvespene on Mon, 30 March 2020, 13:28:08
I also still think the TKL modifiers kit needs R0 Insert and Delete keys, as it supports TKL + 75..60% form factors.
Post by: stoffelduss on Mon, 30 March 2020, 17:24:07
Not that you're wrong with what you're saying, but by that logic the 1.5u pipe key should be moved from alphas to mods as well. My suggestion is not that out there, spacebars are typically part of alphas kits, which makes sense because they almost always share the same color (like the pipe key as well).I'd love it if you could put the 6.25 spacebar with the alphas instead of the different mod kits. Reason is I want to combine these alphas with different KAT mods, I don't like icon mods. Except for ortho, 6.25u is in all mod kits anyway so it makes only a very small differenceWell as an ortho user, I don't want a spacebar that I won't use.
I think it's a better philosophy to keep the kits specific, and small, so the cost of buying additional kits will not be higher than needed. That way most people get what they want for as little money as possible.
Same thing with a lot of KAT sets mixing stagger 40% with 40% ortho, which makes absolutely no sense.
Post by: Joaquox on Tue, 31 March 2020, 01:25:57
Yes.Not that you're wrong with what you're saying, but by that logic the 1.5u pipe key should be moved from alphas to mods as well.I'd love it if you could put the 6.25 spacebar with the alphas instead of the different mod kits. Reason is I want to combine these alphas with different KAT mods, I don't like icon mods. Except for ortho, 6.25u is in all mod kits anyway so it makes only a very small differenceWell as an ortho user, I don't want a spacebar that I won't use.
I think it's a better philosophy to keep the kits specific, and small, so the cost of buying additional kits will not be higher than needed. That way most people get what they want for as little money as possible.
Same thing with a lot of KAT sets mixing stagger 40% with 40% ortho, which makes absolutely no sense.
Post by: stoffelduss on Tue, 31 March 2020, 04:42:03
Post by: Sneetzle on Tue, 31 March 2020, 05:09:31
Post by: Bl4ck on Tue, 31 March 2020, 05:23:10
Suggestion: add a "reverse" Enter and Esc key (BoW) and perhaps even white spacebars
I would love that, but idk if thats the goal
Post by: Snapple on Tue, 31 March 2020, 06:01:55
Suggestion: add a "reverse" Enter and Esc key (BoW) and perhaps even white spacebars+1
:thumb:
Post by: OmniSzron on Tue, 31 March 2020, 08:15:09
Post by: Bl4ck on Tue, 31 March 2020, 08:16:14
+1 on white accent Enter and Esc.
If there are white accents give us spacebar/enter/esc :)
Post by: hieughost on Tue, 31 March 2020, 20:59:57
Edit: Saw OP's post on adding this, awesome!
Post by: fluidin on Tue, 31 March 2020, 22:12:27
Post by: gunmetal on Thu, 02 April 2020, 02:53:50
Suggestion: add a "reverse" Enter and Esc key (BoW) and perhaps even white spacebars
Another +1 for this. Mentioned in the feedback post
Really interested in trying out KAT. Will be perfect for my work board.
Post by: figgs on Mon, 06 April 2020, 19:32:44
Post by: Radium on Tue, 07 April 2020, 05:09:29
Post by: synthtastic on Sun, 12 April 2020, 18:46:35
Post by: RETURNISO on Mon, 13 April 2020, 02:55:28
Looking forward to see the new kit renders :thumb:
Post by: Darthbaggins on Wed, 15 April 2020, 09:13:08
Post by: vsrnth on Wed, 15 April 2020, 09:15:32
Gives me more breathing room to join all keycap and board GB's
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Post by: Bl4ck on Wed, 15 April 2020, 10:19:31
Post by: Stanley.Bishop on Thu, 23 April 2020, 05:13:00
Post by: nguyenhimself on Sun, 26 April 2020, 10:22:05
Sorry for the radio silence. Life has been busy and I try to save updates for bigger news and there hasn't been a ton. A few notes on the set:April is probably too opmistic then.
- the set is being delayed temporarily due to a few factors (namely the China wide closures and production delays) but we are hoping for April
- I'm waiting on updated renders that A) better reflect the color that Keyreative was able to pull off and B) taken into consideration the feedback from here
- Speaking of kits, I've worked up international kits, added the option for 60/tkl text mods, and added an R3 skull into the 40s and ortho kits
News and updates will be provided as I have them :)
- ocm.
As more KAT sets are being IC-ed, I hope the queue wouldn't get even longer.
Post by: psxndc on Sun, 26 April 2020, 11:58:20
...A few notes on the set:
- ... and added an R3 skull into the 40s and ortho kits
With this addition, the ortho set is perfect. A 1u R3 novelty is something a lot of sets overlook, forcing ortho users to put either ESC or TAB there. The novelty allows for CTRL or FN or whatever-you-want without jacking up the legend. The ortho set is just great.
Hiragana alphas:
Another issue I noticed is that you have the kana べ and ぺ representing the (han)dakuten keys (corresponding to [{, ]} keys in ANSI). However, those diacritics can be applied to several kana, not just へ, so those symbols should probably be ゛ and ゜ instead.
This is a great point. I believe the convention is to have dotted squares with the dakuten/handakuten in the upper right corner.
Post by: konstantin on Sun, 26 April 2020, 15:01:07
Hiragana alphas:
Another issue I noticed is that you have the kana べ and ぺ representing the (han)dakuten keys (corresponding to [{, ]} keys in ANSI). However, those diacritics can be applied to several kana, not just へ, so those symbols should probably be ゛ and ゜ instead.
This is a great point. I believe the convention is to have dotted squares with the dakuten/handakuten in the upper right corner.
You're right, the dotted box is conventionally used to represent dead keys, which (han)dakuten are. Either with the dotted box or without it should be fine, the current legends are the only ones that don't work well.
Post by: owltro on Mon, 27 April 2020, 03:17:29
Post by: Koniotaur on Sat, 09 May 2020, 07:24:42
Post by: kidviddy on Sat, 09 May 2020, 09:53:37
Another issue is with regards the layout of the hiragana alphas. I'd like to propose the following modifications which I have mentioned on some other kana monolegend ICs (and konstantin has been fighting the good fight as well!). These are as follows:
- Add an R1 [ー] key, or replace R1 [ろ] or [む] with [ー]
- Add an R3 [む] key
- Add an R4 [ろ] key
These changes would allow you to support both ISO and JIS users on top of ANSI, and if you choose to replace R1 ろ with ー and "move" R1 む to R3, you can get away with only adding one additional key (R4 ろ). If you still wish to support R1 ろ and む, you can do so with just a couple of extra keys.
This is a really nice, clean-looking set, so I'd love to see it succeed! The changes I've proposed will make the hiragana alphas more generally useful.
Other keys that are useful for building JIS layouts are:
- A 2U Shift key
- A 3U Space bar
I can't quite tell from your renders whether you have these; it looks to me like there might be a 2U shift in there, which is great -- of the two, I'd say that was the more important. The 3U space is useful if you're building a board with henkan/muhenkan buttons either side of the space bar, but it's slightly more complicated as different boards use different size space bars. I'm planning on writing a full post about this once I've done some more research into all the options, but for now I think the best bet for JIS users who want henkan/muhenkan buttons is to build a 60% board using GH60's minila layout, which uses a 3U spacebar.
Post by: CrlaoSvloadr on Sat, 09 May 2020, 14:35:39
Post by: amperrsand on Sun, 10 May 2020, 19:39:15
Post by: CrlaoSvloadr on Sun, 10 May 2020, 20:29:19
The option would be fantastic!
Post by: SirTimmyTimbit on Tue, 12 May 2020, 03:03:04
Post by: Kyekoro on Thu, 14 May 2020, 18:00:07
Post by: fropsie on Wed, 20 May 2020, 20:22:26
Post by: diddykang on Wed, 20 May 2020, 21:13:50
Post by: GEIST on Thu, 21 May 2020, 05:32:00
Post by: cadrev on Thu, 21 May 2020, 13:22:40
Post by: azzipa on Fri, 29 May 2020, 22:32:24
Follow-on: if above answer is yes, then it would be cool to have an OCM key in the 40s kit ‘cause the one in the Alpha kit is for a different row (and would have a diff profile?)
Either way, you’ve done a really nice job putting the kits together.
Post by: harlekein on Tue, 02 June 2020, 08:48:13
Post by: factoryofidols on Tue, 02 June 2020, 09:02:37
Post by: Sterenke on Tue, 02 June 2020, 10:12:27
I have a question: the 40's modifiers, are the rows mislabeled?
As shown in red - fixed rows in accordance with incumbent row labeling
As shown in green - fixed rows in accordance with KAT row labeling
Requests and wishes:
I really like Honeywell sets, and the color-scheme looks very close to that of Honeywell, would it be possible to request some BoW alphas to go with it, to achieve that look?
I would also like to request text-mods as the MOQ seems to be bound to keys sold rather than kits sold!
Good luck with your keycapset! I'm in!
Post by: Primal on Wed, 03 June 2020, 15:00:00
Also add that nice logo you got on the deskmat, thatd be sick
Post by: sedxr on Thu, 04 June 2020, 11:28:28
Post by: ocm on Fri, 05 June 2020, 17:10:15