Author Topic: Removing the Topre spacebar spring makes the entire board feel lighter (Read 16961 times)

intelli78 · « **on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 08:54:59 »

This is an interesting phenomenon I have noticed with my Topre boards. Maybe no one will agree but I wanted to share.

Remove the spring under the spacebar, and the whole board feels lighter. I think it's because the lateral thumb motion required to depress the spacebar is not a particularly "strong" movement for your thumb, and since your thumb is connected to your entire hand and arm, and therefore decreasing that force has the effect of perceptibly lightening the entire experience.

I have enjoyed using my 55g RF a lot more after removing the spring. Anyone else always take the spring out?

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 08:58:28 »

I like putting the spring under backspace instead.

intelli78 · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 09:01:24 »

Quote from: SpAmRaY on Wed, 04 February 2015, 08:58:28

I like putting the spring under backspace instead.

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

daerid · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 11:01:54 »

a++ thread would read again

snipars · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 11:15:55 »

I accidentally removed the spring from my hhkb spacebar the day i got it, i found the spring in my desk and tried typing with the spring in, but it felt a bit weird

0100010 · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 11:47:07 »

I don't a HHKB - but does the spacebar have an additional spring compared to the rest of the keys?

I ask because my understanding id every Topre key has a conical spring under the rubber dome that is used for changing capacitance in the underlying PCB. If that spring is removed, how would the spacebar be detected?

snipars · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 11:54:57 »

Quote from: 0100010 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 11:47:07

I don't a HHKB - but does the spacebar have an additional spring compared to the rest of the keys?

I ask because my understanding id every Topre key has a conical spring under the rubber dome that is used for changing capacitance in the underlying PCB. If that spring is removed, how would the spacebar be detected?

the spacebar has a spring between the stem and the space bar, not related to the spring in the switch itself

MythicalWagyu · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 11:58:04 »

Quote from: 0100010 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 11:47:07

I don't a HHKB - but does the spacebar have an additional spring compared to the rest of the keys?

I ask because my understanding id every Topre key has a conical spring under the rubber dome that is used for changing capacitance in the underlying PCB. If that spring is removed, how would the spacebar be detected?

There's a spring under the spacebar in addition to the conical one under the rubber dome:

MGH · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 13:34:16 »

Hmmm...my jis real force doesn't have a spring like that.

PunksDead · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 13:39:08 »

i have had a similar experience

HHKB's = spring in
Fc660c (grey version)= no spring
Novatouch = spring in

im assuming the heavier weighted rubber feels better to remove the spring. Since the grey fc660c feels heavier than 45g i actually enjoy no spring in it.

Heliosphere · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 13:53:08 »

I've removed the spacebar spring on my 55g and Novatouch and they both feel far more pleasant to type on.

Hyde · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 14:12:24 »

For me:

Realforce 104U = no spring
FC660C = no spring
Realforce HiPro = spring in

I'd say most of the time removing spring feels better and more consistent.

Sygaldry · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 14:29:39 »

For me:

HHKB spring in
RF87 55g spring out

HHKB space bar feels too mushy without the spring. Feels great with it in.
RF87u 55g feels great without the spring.

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 04 February 2015, 23:01:06 »

Quote from: intelli78 on Wed, 04 February 2015, 09:01:24

Quote from: SpAmRaY on Wed, 04 February 2015, 08:58:28
I like putting the spring under backspace instead.

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Don't knock it until you try it. Backspace always wants to be noisier than the other keys and the spring seems to help that.

Novus · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 05 February 2015, 01:28:28 »

I just invert my spacebar

Bomble · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 05 February 2015, 01:29:35 »

I tried it a little while ago on my HHKB, but it made the spacebar sound excessively "clacky" for some reason and the distracted me too much to be able to keep it that way. Can't remember anything about the feel though.

jacobolus · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 05 February 2015, 03:43:29 »

Lots of keyboards have stupidly heavy spacebars. Black and white space invader boards are the worst offenders I know, along with certain Model Fs with impossibly heavy spacebars, but plenty of Alps boards also use either stiffer switches or additional springs under the spacebar.

It’s in some cases helpful if the spacebar is 9–11 units wide (spacebars longer than 5 units long are stupid IMO), but most of the time a keyboard ends up much nicer when you remove extra springs or swap too-heavy switches for lighter ones.

zennasyndroxx · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 05 February 2015, 05:54:01 »

Quote from: MGH on Wed, 04 February 2015, 13:34:16

Hmmm...my jis real force doesn't have a spring like that.

you got yours NIB?

also, kuklifornia.

eth0s · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 05 February 2015, 07:01:18 »

TIL, there are springs in keyboards. THX!!!

aref · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 05 February 2015, 14:10:46 »

Just tried it on my 55g RF. I prefer the resistance of the space bar (shouldn't this be a compound word? Ditto for key cap) with the spring under it. All a matter of personal preference.
Now I'd like more springs to place under about 11 other keys (backspace, cursor keys, and the cluster above cursor keys). Backspace receives a lot of attention on my keyboards.

Anyone know where I can buy Realforce springs that are identical to the one under the space bar?

Heliosphere · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 05 February 2015, 14:19:24 »

Quote from: aref on Thu, 05 February 2015, 14:10:46

Just tried it on my 55g RF. I prefer the resistance of the space bar (shouldn't this be a compound word? Ditto for key cap) with the spring under it. All a matter of personal preference.
Now I'd like more springs to place under about 11 other keys (backspace, cursor keys, and the cluster above cursor keys). Backspace receives a lot of attention on my keyboards.

Anyone know where I can buy Realforce springs that are identical to the one under the space bar?

For me the spring's extra weight makes the spacebar's edge dig into my thumb uncomfortably when I use it. The backspace weight feels heavy enough on the pinky as it is, but perhaps you have fingers of steel.

aref · « **Reply #21 on:** Thu, 05 February 2015, 14:24:39 »

Fingers of Steel or, perhaps, Thumbs of Titanium. I laughed; fingers of steel is really funny--well done. No superlatives for these digits; just ordinary appendages.

HighPlainsDrafter · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun, 08 February 2015, 01:58:53 »

Inverting the spacebar and removing the spring is a delight for me this first night of trying the inversion on my RF 55g uniform. I'm a 90wpm touch typist with a likely poor, low-rider posture.
So, the inversion might not feel good for upright postures: I sat up straight and noticed the inverted spacebar's northern edge dug into my thumb.

If I read correctly earlier in this thread, the IBM Model M doesn't (easily/directly) lend itself to a quick reversal of its spacebar. Sorry for the scope creep, but curious whether the Model F XT is also not being easy to reverse its spacebar? Wondering if that's an option for the F than switching it to a Model M sb.

jacobolus · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 08 February 2015, 02:53:17 »

Quote from: HighPlainsDrafter on Sun, 08 February 2015, 01:58:53

If I read correctly earlier in this thread, the IBM Model M doesn't (easily/directly) lend itself to a quick reversal of its spacebar. Sorry for the scope creep, but curious whether the Model F is also not being easy to reverse its spacebar? Wondering if that's an option for the F than switching it to a Model M sb.

Neither of these is really amenable to spacebar reversal, but I’m not sure you’d want to. The shape is not nearly as bad as OEM/DCS profile MX spacebars.

MPZ · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 09 February 2015, 01:18:56 »

I yanked the spring on my Novatouch when I switched it to Leopold Thick PBT Keycaps. I think it helps a little bit (I wish my setup felt lighter than it does), but then even with no spring the plastic on these caps is hard enough (and my hands are small enough) that I sometimes notice the front edge of my spacebar digging into my thumbs. LoL- maybe I should have gone for POM caps. Oh yeah- I spent forever looking for POM caps online but could only find blank so I eventually fell for the thick Leopold PBT hype. Or I suppose, more specifically, I was restless about my KUL not feeling quite right (Before I even bought the novatouch), and tired of obsessing over it so I just bought the Leopold. It stopped the obsessing, but....

WoW I'm off topic. Sorry about that.

Carry on

Hypersphere · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 18 September 2015, 15:22:26 »

Does anyone here have an extra spacebar spring for a Topre switch keyboard (HHKB Pro 2, Novatouch, Leopold FC660C, RF87U, RF104U, Type Heaven). If so, please let me know if you are willing to sell one to me. Thanks.

ilmis · « **Reply #26 on:** Thu, 02 February 2017, 08:12:30 »

Just got my Novatouch today and I'm used to having a uniform spacebar compared to other keys that I missspacesssometimes with the spring in. I think I'll put it under the esc key to not lose it and it's the key you don't really want accidental pressed on I guess.

DRAZAH · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 02 February 2017, 09:26:30 »

Removing the spring in my HHKB makes the spacebar "clack" more than usual. Feels lighter, less smooth, and more clacky... I prefer the spring in.

I also tried the spring in RShift, Backspace, and Enter. I like the feeling actually, the very slight resistance makes it feel smoother and less clacky. Placebo maybe?

ilmis · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 02 February 2017, 14:59:09 »

It does make it more solid and I quite like how it feels actually, maybe I should put it back under the spacebar and get used to it that way, it also seems like it makes spacebar slightly less tactile since it adds resistance to dome collapsing and I do not see any benefit in spacebar being tactile since you bottom it out most of the time anyway, but I'm so used to my other keyboards being homogenous (all blues and all reds) So I'm not sure what I liek the most but I quite enjoy topre so far, it definetly feels closer to a rubber dome but with quality and consistency of a mechanical switch. I'm certain that adding thick and nice PBT caps will improve it a lot and also add some weight to a spacebar itself and then the spring will be needed more imo

1391406 · « **Reply #29 on:** Thu, 02 February 2017, 16:16:09 »

I've got the space bar seated backwards on both of my Realforce boards.

Dyaems · « **Reply #30 on:** Thu, 02 February 2017, 22:50:45 »

i removed the spring from my novatouch on the day i got it after doing some typing test because it feels really heavy to press the spacebar with the spring installed.

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 03 February 2017, 07:01:51 »

Somebody who doesn't want theirs anymore can send me a topre spacebar spring. I'll pay shipping.

yuppie · « **Reply #32 on:** Sun, 05 February 2017, 03:02:13 »

I hated the spring under my spacebar. Removing it was like a veil was lifted.

brianjking · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 24 February 2017, 21:48:41 »

I lost my spacebar spring for my HHKB Type-S and can't find it anywhere. Is anyone willing to sell me one? I don't have any sales/trades/buys on Geekhack, however, I have 30+ at reddit.com/r/mechmarket.

You can find me at reddit.com at http://reddit.com/u/brianjking.

zpcomstock17 · « **Reply #34 on:** Fri, 24 February 2017, 22:09:48 »

Quote from: brianjking on Fri, 24 February 2017, 21:48:41

I lost my spacebar spring for my HHKB Type-S and can't find it anywhere. Is anyone willing to sell me one? I don't have any sales/trades/buys on Geekhack, however, I have 30+ at reddit.com/r/mechmarket.

You can find me at reddit.com at http://reddit.com/u/brianjking.

I can sacrifice my Topre spring if you'd like, how much are you offering for it including shipping?

brianjking · « **Reply #35 on:** Fri, 24 February 2017, 22:13:51 »

I have no idea, make me an offer? I'm in Chicago, IL, USA. Are you CON-US? Perhaps we should move this to PM messages?

I have a Type-S HHKB if that matters, but I'd imagine the springs from Realforce boards should be the same.

brianjking · « **Reply #36 on:** Fri, 24 February 2017, 22:47:18 »

Quote from: zpcomstock17 on Fri, 24 February 2017, 22:09:48

Quote from: brianjking on Fri, 24 February 2017, 21:48:41
I lost my spacebar spring for my HHKB Type-S and can't find it anywhere. Is anyone willing to sell me one? I don't have any sales/trades/buys on Geekhack, however, I have 30+ at reddit.com/r/mechmarket.

You can find me at reddit.com at http://reddit.com/u/brianjking.

I can sacrifice my Topre spring if you'd like, how much are you offering for it including shipping?

I have no idea, make me an offer? I'm in Chicago, IL, USA. Are you CON-US? Perhaps we should move this to PM messages?

I have a Type-S HHKB if that matters, but I'd imagine the springs from Realforce boards should be the same.

I sent you a PM by the way... Thanks!

AugustCanaille · « **Reply #37 on:** Tue, 22 May 2018, 21:06:23 »

Quote from: aref on Thu, 05 February 2015, 14:24:39

Fingers of Steel or, perhaps, Thumbs of Titanium. I laughed; fingers of steel is really funny--well done. No superlatives for these digits; just ordinary appendages.

Those aren't superlatives.

Kevadu · « **Reply #38 on:** Tue, 22 May 2018, 23:28:22 »

Quote from: AugustCanaille on Tue, 22 May 2018, 21:06:23

Quote from: aref on Thu, 05 February 2015, 14:24:39
Fingers of Steel or, perhaps, Thumbs of Titanium. I laughed; fingers of steel is really funny--well done. No superlatives for these digits; just ordinary appendages.

Those aren't superlatives.

That comment was over 3 years in the making folks.

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Author Topic: Removing the Topre spacebar spring makes the entire board feel lighter (Read 16961 times)