[GB] Noxary 280 & 220 (Wrapping Up)

[Whale_algorithm]

I was under the assumption that anyone transferring to a 380 would not receive a 280. I certainly would not expect to receive both.

[dyrdevil]

I was under the assumption that anyone transferring to a 380 would not receive a 280. I certainly would not expect to receive both.

While I don't mean to speak for xondat, I'm guessing that second possibility means simply that you would be able to purchase some type of LE 380 - to have a spot, but not to get an extra board for free.

[xondat]

Yep, bad wording on my part! Ability to purchase, rather than a free board.

[Xerra]

Leaning more towards a 380 transfer for me, but might also sway towards a limited edition spot depending on the spec.

Would be interested in a 380 transfer

What's another year at this point

Bold of you to assume it's just another year . I certainly hope so though!

[Whale_algorithm]

Yep, bad wording on my part! Ability to purchase, rather than a free board.

Ok, that makes sense. If someone opts to receive their 280, are they reserved a LE 380 spot (pending payment), or do they have to participate in FCFS?

Second, my interest in a LE 380 would largely depend on whether a full brass or stainless bottom would be doable. I'm willing to pay more for such an option. There are multiple full bottom TKLs in IC right now (Phoenix, Eri, I think maybe others) so I would really like the option on the 380.

[Vadurr]

If anybody has a WKL Crimson Red + 5mm PC spot, I'd be interested in taking it

[jackedhardwarejunkie]

I believe I recall that based on naming convention, the 380 would also be a TKL. If so, I would consider transferring to this project. Do you have any sense when that would be launched? I haven't seen an IC yet so I assume it is still quite far in the future. If we do that, what happens to our 220, do we have to accept the current ano or lack thereof? Would also be nice for any 280 transfers to get some sort of limited edition 380.

Right now, I'd say May start with very roughly end of year delivery. That'll probably change, but will give you some idea.

Regarding 220, you'd just get that as noted above, as there is no guarantee I will do a "320".

Happy to do a limited edition

Roughly speaking, specifiation of 380 is:

• F13 80% Layout
• DUAL V2 Mount (rather than top mount)
• Screwless Exterior
• Seamless Case Design
• Brass Through Weight (basically identical to 280 but with new engraving)
• 7° Base Angle (1 lower than 280)
• 15.5mm Front Height ft. LEDGE
• USB-C Daughterboard
• Hyper Red (Aluminum) or 5mm Polycarbonate Plate

Layout is fixed full Left Shift, full Backspace, ANSI Enter, full Right Shift, Tsangan bottom row, with options of full or stepped Caps Lock. The biggest change will be the F13 key.

Colors will probably be Blue Gray, Silver, and perhaps Pink. If you guys wanted different from those colors then happy to discuss.

Show Image

Show Image

Maybe some shade of purple?

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

[Whale_algorithm]

Maybe some shade of purple? [/quote]

I could get behind this...

[Tindaro]

Colors will probably be Blue Gray, Silver, and perhaps Pink. If you guys wanted different from those colors then happy to discuss.

Show Image

Show Image

BG very nice, but If I had to choose a color, I would definitely pick Olive Green for the upcoming 380 if it were available. I missed 280 GB, and OG would have been my top choice with no hesitation.
Hope to see it proposed again among the color variants, or eventually, offer the possibility to get it by other means (LE, GC, ...).
I wish it were feasible.

[kiyoboard]

I heard a lot of good stuff about 280, so I would probably want to keep my unit and prefer 380 LE spot. That said, I think it would be a fairer thing to give people spot+discount. Since 380 LE spot is essentially a gift for you rather than the customer, as you just get a guaranteed buyer. I know in the hobby it feels like a gift to have a spot for something limited, but spot+discount would be a win-win as you get your guaranteed customer(with less profit), and customer ends up being compensated for their trouble and get another nice board. Hopefully it doesn't sound greedy as that wasn't the intention and I wouldn't be unhappy with just the LE spot.

Regarding to colors, I would love to see gray or red.

[Whale_algorithm]

I understand where you're coming from. I personally will forego a discount on the 280 if offered. It's part of the risk of joining a GB. And in this case, I don't see any evidence that Xondat has not worked hard to do things right.

[kiyoboard]

I understand where you're coming from. I personally will forego a discount on the 280 if offered. It's part of the risk of joining a GB. And in this case, I don't see any evidence that Xondat has not worked hard to do things right.

I agree that Xondat did everything possible, and never claimed anything otherwise. But, I disagree that a business using GB model giving potential get out of jail free card. At this stage in the hobby, I think we are way past GBs being a hobbyist trying to get a board made(most of the time). That said, I understand these are still relatively small businesses and can't just replace stuff like Apple, hence was my suggestion of 380 LE spot with discount. That still gives them more customers, and previous customers end up happy.

[dangboy]

I sincerely doubt there will be a shortage of people wanting spots in a limited GB.

[kiyoboard]

I sincerely doubt there will be a shortage of people wanting spots in a limited GB.

Sometimes it feels impossible to say anything pro-consumer in this forum Surprisingly, most of the defending come from customers rather than vendors/designers/businesses.

I am aware of that... Probably even if they sell stuff for 2-3 times the price, they can still find customers I bet, but that doesn't mean they should. That wasn't my point. It is not a sustainable business to leave trail of unhappy customers behind, as eventually there will be a point that your business is going to fail. Also just to be clear, I am not saying this directed to Noxary or Xondat, since I don't even know yet what state my board is in. If photos were accurate, then I think the top/bottom difference is not bad at all, and I genuinely believe Xondat is trying to get things right as best as he can. So, I just made a suggestion to Xondat that I thought can make both parties happy, and in my opinion fairest solution. I can totally understand if it is not possible for variety of reasons, and wasn't talking about a significant discount either, just even something symbolic, potentially based on the state of your 280.

[superdoedoe]

Hobbies like 4 times bigger than it was in 2018. Times have changed.

[Petch]

I filled out the shipping form before reading the updates on the thread

I'd like to discuss options before receiving a dud board

[ilemondrop]

Hey just caught up with the thread. I too filled out my shipping form for the 280. Based on what I've gathered so far, I think I would personally lean toward receiving my blue gray 280 (I kind of want it as some sort of medal of honour at this point hahaha) and then also participate in some sort of 380 LE.

I admit it would be pretty cool to have a special colorway/configuration for original 280 backers. Nothing insane just something we could claim as our own would be rad

[xondat]

Hi all,

Sorry to spend so long on this but please give the relevant sections a read and let me know thoughts etc. Feedback from everyone is important at this stage as I try to close things out whilst satisfying as many people as I can. I'll give it at least a week to get opinions and make sure this is going in the correct direction.




BATCH 4 METEORITE GRAY/ULTRA VIOLET:

I've had chance to check them out and unfortunately it isn't good news. In short, the colors are just off. See the pictures:



XRF up top. This is what was expected from the Pantone. The Meteorite Gray 280 & 220, despite being ordered with the same Pantone, came out different.






Anodizing color isn't perfectly matching in direct light.




The Ultra Violet 280 & 220, despite being ordered with the same Pantone, came out different.


I'll keep it simple and can expand later if requested - if you're due Meteorite Gray or Ultra Violet, please read the options below. Originally the options below were going to be just for Batch 3, but it'll also include Batch 4 now.

The color matching between the top & bottom halves of UV boards is better than Blue Gray, but still not perfect. I'll post some pictures on Wednesday.




MOVING FORWARD FOR THOSE THAT HAVEN'T RECEIVED A KEYBOARD YET:


To me there are three categories of people:

• Want 280 regardless of anodizing, no interest in 380 LE whatsoever
• Want 280 regardless of anodizing, interested in a 380 LE (or another Noxary board such as Valhalla)
• Do not want 280, would like full transfer to 380 LE

How each category could be handled:

Category 1: I'll get boards shipped out ASAP, and won't charge for shipping. I'd be fine with partially refunding ~$100 due to the anodizing issue.

Category 2: As above, will ship ASAP, and won't charge for shipping. Will listen to what sort of options people want with LE (such as brass base etc). It can't get too complex, but certainly able to accomdate some milder requests. Able to accomodate a slightly larger discount on this compared to the partial refund.

Category 3: Complete transfer to 380 LE. As mentioned in Cat 2, can accomodate some milder requests. Will make sure options chosen (such as plate/PCB quantity) line up as best as possible, no "value" should be lost. At least free shipping on the 380 LE, but not sure what else should be put on the table.

Pictures of the 380 prototype for those interested:

More

FYI this is a polished but not media-blasted prototype, with an aluminum weight. Actual production spec will be anodized with a media-blasted brass weight.

Please let me know what you think of these options. I'll finalize once there has been some discussion (in a minimum of a week), have a form sent out to everyone so they can choose how they want to move forward, and try and get everyone as happy as possible given the circumstances.

Regarding those asking about the shipping form, if you've done it, that's fine. You haven't commited to anything by filling it in

[Whale_algorithm]

I would like option 2. If there is anyone forfeiting a WKL blue grey I would prefer to take that one (I currently have WK).

[tekkeun]

Honestly for me im down for option 1/2 i have MG

[kiyoboard]

I would like the option 2.

[dwarflemur]

How does option two work? I’m fine with either purple in the pic at this point tbh. I missed out on the Valhalla but would love to get in on that somehow if possible.

[xondat]

How does option two work? I’m fine with either purple in the pic at this point tbh. I missed out on the Valhalla but would love to get in on that somehow if possible.

You get the 280, and you can also purchase a discounted 380 LE/Valhalla.

Also to be clear - all the 280s are one variant of the UV, all the 220s are the other variant. There are no matching pairs.

[Pheyn]

Option 1 for me. I can put that $100 towards getting it cerakoted if I feel the need.

[kolashnikov]

As a UV 280 spot, I'd need to see top vs. bottom mismatch pictures to make a decision. Keeping an eye out for those pics on Wednesday.

[dwarflemur]

How does option two work? I’m fine with either purple in the pic at this point tbh. I missed out on the Valhalla but would love to get in on that somehow if possible.

You get the 280, and you can also purchase a discounted 380 LE/Valhalla.

Also to be clear - all the 280s are one variant of the UV, all the 220s are the other variant. There are no matching pairs.

That sounds great to me. What’s the best way to proceed?

[hideyourholes]

I'm guessing there won't be a violet 380LE on offer? lmao

[SolidCactus]

As a UV 280 spot, I'd need to see top vs. bottom mismatch pictures to make a decision. Keeping an eye out for those pics on Wednesday.

I’m inclined to do the same

[pixelpusher]

I can't track down where we are on.  I thought I filled out shipping info for my 220 (batch 3) several months ago. Did you ship those?

[nug]

I can't track down where we are on.  I thought I filled out shipping info for my 220 (batch 3) several months ago. Did you ship those?

I don't think they have shipped yet, I also haven't received my 220 BG. FYI I think we filled out the shipping form for 220 in January as that's when xondat sent out the form

[pixelpusher]

I can't track down where we are on.  I thought I filled out shipping info for my 220 (batch 3) several months ago. Did you ship those?

I don't think they have shipped yet, I also haven't received my 220 BG. FYI I think we filled out the shipping form for 220 in January as that's when xondat sent out the form

 

[dangboy]

A little bummed out the UV isn't gonna be the same as 220. That's a damn nice purple. 
Looking forward to Wednesday's pics, but tentatively I'd wanna go with option 1 or 3 depending on what the 380 LE options end up looking like.

[hideyourholes]

A little bummed out the UV isn't gonna be the same as 220. That's a damn nice purple. 
Looking forward to Wednesday's pics, but tentatively I'd wanna go with option 1 or 3 depending on what the 380 LE options end up looking like.

Yeah I've had my keycaps for my 280 for two years and they match the 220 pretty much exactly unfortunately. lol

[ilemondrop]

Now that the categories have been formalized, I'm a vote for #2  (I'm a blue gray purchaser).

[ARSLOCK]

I'd like option 3 personally

[xondat]

Just a few points:

• As mentioned above, I'll send a form to everyone once the options are locked in. Please don't PM me saying you'd like to do 1/2/3 as I'm not taking any official notes.
• Categories/options aren't locked in right now, but everyone seems happy with what's on the table.
• If you have a wrist rest on order, but you don't want the 280 - don't worry, I'll make sure it's handled fairly.
• Colors for 380 LE haven't been given much thought at the moment. It would make sense to perhaps offer Blue Gray, Meteorite Gray, and Ultra Violet, but I'll consult people over that when the time comes around.

[Whale_algorithm]

I'd like option 3 personally

Do you have a blue grey WKL?

[xondat]

UV pictures as promised:

[ramensan]

I will choose option 3 for my blue gray 280 unit.

[bciamny]

hmm. this is a bit harder for me to figure out because of my color choices. could you pm or post on here what my combo looks like xondat? i think i may have set myself up for failure with my color choices, lol.

[xondat]

hmm. this is a bit harder for me to figure out because of my color choices. could you pm or post on here what my combo looks like xondat? i think i may have set myself up for failure with my color choices, lol.

Ah I forgot about your set-up. Will take pictures next time I'm at the office.

[Whale_algorithm]

To move forward, first I will ship all the kits out so that owners can see the exact anodizing mismatch themselves. I'll then start conversations with everyone involved, and gather opinions on what the best solution is for everyone. I'd like to come out of this with everyone as satisfied as they can be given the circumstances. I believe this is the best solution, but ultimately I'll listen to everyone and do my best. If you want to reach out sooner and start talking, feel free to, however I'd like to get everything delivered so proper judgement can be made before taking any action.

I'll send the shipping form tonight and start collecting that information. Shipping will be with DHL, and I won't charge anyone affected by the anodizing mismatch. I'll start assembling units, sorting parts, generally just prepare to start shipping again throughout this month, with the aim of beginning shipping towards the end of the month. Please note I currently don't have my car therefore can't get to the office, but should have it by the end of this week. I have an employee helping out with fulfilment, so it will be completed much quicker than previous batches.

What exactly is the hold up here? I know you came up with your 3 different options for unit owners, but why hasn't any actual action been taken yet? When can we expect to receive our units as you said a month and a half ago?

[xondat]

What exactly is the hold up here? I know you came up with your 3 different options for unit owners, but why hasn't any actual action been taken yet? When can we expect to receive our units as you said a month and a half ago?

Going to have to say no - I have no path to reanodize units, and reproducting units will just lead to more trouble. I believe the design plays a large part in the anodizing issues, as the top piece is the same thickness all round, whereas the bottom piece is very short at the front, and tall at the back.

I have no problem if people want to perhaps transfer to a 380 (or another recent project [Valhalla, 378, X60 V2]), not sure if that's of interest to anyone as they're very different projects.

A lot more transfer interest than I expected - let me work it out and get back to y'all in a couple days. I realized I can't both let people transfer but also ship them the board first. I'll most likely begin conversations before shipping boards out. Seems like three scenarios are proving popular: receive BG board and get partial refund; receive BG board and also be able to purchase a limited edition 380; and full transfer to 380.

And then the big update: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=95660.msg3109632#msg3109632

Summed up, I hinted that people could transfer projects, and that got a lot more interest than I anticipated, such that I had to change the path to fulfilment to allow people to switch.

I've heard a lot of opinions, and seems like everyone is happy with the options, I'm currently planning out the best way to make this a seamless process for everyone, and hope to get the form out by Sunday I'm sorry to take so long on this, but I believe it's imperative that I get this correct for everyone.

[Whale_algorithm]

The posts you are quoting are 5 weeks old. The big update had nothing to do with blue grey. I would just like to see some actual action taken at some point.

Edit: I know you have put a lot of effort into this so please don't think I am implying you aren't doing enough.

[xondat]

The posts you are quoting are 5 weeks old. The big update had nothing to do with blue grey. I would just like to see some actual action taken at some point.

Edit: I know you have put a lot of effort into this so please don't think I am implying you aren't doing enough.

The big update has everything to do with Blue Gray, sorry that wasn't obvious enough.

Please, please read this section, but TLDR is that if you haven't received a board, you will have a choice to make, which is why no "actual action" (I assume implying shipping) has happened.

MOVING FORWARD FOR THOSE THAT HAVEN'T RECEIVED A KEYBOARD YET:


To me there are three categories of people:

• Want 280 regardless of anodizing, no interest in 380 LE whatsoever
• Want 280 regardless of anodizing, interested in a 380 LE (or another Noxary board such as Valhalla)
• Do not want 280, would like full transfer to 380 LE

How each category could be handled:

Category 1: I'll get boards shipped out ASAP, and won't charge for shipping. I'd be fine with partially refunding ~$100 due to the anodizing issue.

Category 2: As above, will ship ASAP, and won't charge for shipping. Will listen to what sort of options people want with LE (such as brass base etc). It can't get too complex, but certainly able to accomdate some milder requests. Able to accomodate a slightly larger discount on this compared to the partial refund.

Category 3: Complete transfer to 380 LE. As mentioned in Cat 2, can accomodate some milder requests. Will make sure options chosen (such as plate/PCB quantity) line up as best as possible, no "value" should be lost. At least free shipping on the 380 LE, but not sure what else should be put on the table.

Pictures of the 380 prototype for those interested:

More

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

FYI this is a polished but not media-blasted prototype, with an aluminum weight. Actual production spec will be anodized with a media-blasted brass weight.

Please let me know what you think of these options. I'll finalize once there has been some discussion (in a minimum of a week), have a form sent out to everyone so they can choose how they want to move forward, and try and get everyone as happy as possible given the circumstances.

Regarding those asking about the shipping form, if you've done it, that's fine. You haven't commited to anything by filling it in

[Micoo]

The big update has everything to do with Blue Gray, sorry that wasn't obvious enough.

Please, please read this section, but TLDR is that if you haven't received a board, you will have a choice to make, which is why no "actual action" (I assume implying shipping) has happened.

xondat when I last spoke to you, I was under the assumption that I'm not eligible for any of these options due to my board being Silver (Originally Pink but we agreed to have it reanodised due to colour mismatch.) Has that since changed? And if not when can I expect my board to be shipped as I never heard back from you when we last spoke.

[xondat]

I've sent the resolution form out, via Geekhack DMs.

If looking through my notes, your situation is more unique than normal, I'll also reach out independently shortly.

[bciamny]

responded to the google form. let me know what you think re: what i mentioned in my notes at the end of the form, xondat. thanks.

[mrtnsu]

Submitted the form.

Thank you for the way you are handling this. I know it's not easy for you, and I appreciate your effort.

The thought of getting a spot for Valhalla is exciting (I just missed out on it in GB).

[Etherealsound]

I've sent the resolution form out, via Geekhack DMs.

If looking through my notes, your situation is more unique than normal, I'll also reach out independently shortly.

Haven't gotten any DM yet.