Author Topic: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT  (Read 21985 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 07:25:12 »
These two fat babies are currently contending for the exalted position under my desk (in an unwindowed case to boot, not like I wouldn't be anti-social enough to show off the Noctua beige).

I've seen a bunch of reviews and tests, starting from TechPowerUp, and the results are somewhat inconclusive. Perhaps RT wins on Intel and D15 on AMD? I truly don't know. Sometimes the one, sometimes the other leads by one or two degrees or decibels. While temperatures are closer to evenly split, RT usually comes off quieter.

Most people would probably call it even and decide on the basis of the price. Well, let's just say that wherever I can realistically buy from, the RT is priced on par with the single-fan Noctua, the D-15S.

What I like about the RT is more RAM clearance — both my mobos (main and backup) have problems in this regard, even without tall sticks, and I think I've already broken pins in CPU slots due to applying some physical force to help things fit, so I need to be careful. (Would probably be buying the D15S with an additional fan instead, to help compatibility, though that's taking a slight performance hit due to the asymmetric build.)

My top 1 priority is silence, as I'm a bit sensitive to sound and find it difficult to concentrate on my work (reading and writing, often at night with almost zero ambient) if I can hear anything from the PC. Almost anything. Likewise, during moments of silence in a game, I don't really like to hear fan brushes, let alone rotors.

Thus, a single large fan at 400-ish rpm while not doing anything overly CPU-intensive is gold, as is that particular fan's (TY-147B) relatively low max.

However, I've also heard that while Noctua already beats most other coolers on pure decibels, it also has a comparatively less annoying sound, which may be important for when you do hear it. I think it's safe to assume the RT would be more annoying with the same decibels as the D15.

I've looked at AIOs, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to hear the pump if I concentrate, so that's out of the question until I have enough time and money to build a decent custom loop.

I can't really think of better air coolers, though there is supposed to be a comparably priced air Phanteks (C14PE?)  that's marginally better than these two, at least according to one large test I've seen somewhere. I don't know how it does that, looking almost exactly like my Gelid Phantom, with which I'm not quite happy, but anyway.

Finally, the TechPowerUp test, which is so favourable to the RT, does show the Noctua take back the lead by a single degree in the most extreme load + OC they did. Meaning the two fans are probably doing a better job at dissipation. This could perhaps become a bigger difference during a long gaming session @ all ultra with an OC'd CPU. But then, one can also buy another fan for the RT.

Does anyone own both of these coolers? (Or an AIO with a 100% inaudible pump?)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13551
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 07:33:46 »
Go water.  These coolers are getting really heavy and dangerous for side mounting.

Offline -Jerry-

  • Posts: 336
  • Location: Bath, UK
  • OR '1'='1'
    • Jerry Talks Tech
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 07:43:08 »
I've got a Corsair H150i Pro in my PC and I can't say I've ever heard the pump once, AIO cooler pumps are typically smaller and more enclosed than custom loop pumps like D5s. Combined with the zero-RPM fan mode, I rarely hear much of anything while the system is just being used for standard desktop stuff.
"Romeo"     "Split75"   "Melody96"     "KBD8X MKII"     "Womier K87"

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 08:12:27 »
i own an nhd15, it is actually much lighter than what i expected (still heavy but not that bad) although i ordered the wrong one (no amd brackets) so i could not actually use it. and it pokes through the side of my fairly normally sized case so pay attention to that. for the sound when you are talking such low differences raw dB will not be the whole story and from my experience yes Noctua fans do not whine like cheaper fans can and have a much less annoying sound to them even at 100%, my experience is very one sided though as i never had Thermalright  fans or heatsinks.
for watercoolling the pump can likely be isolated to reduce noise, and for both you can improve acoustics by insulating the case and adding fans (the more fan the slower they spin to move the same amount of air).
and if you have trouble with clearance on the D15 you can go with the RT and swap Noctua fans on it if the noise is unpleasant, best of both world
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 1091
  • Location: Asia
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 08:36:47 »
If that is its real name and not a joke, how could you not buy Le Grand Macho? Hopefully it comes with stickers that you can plaster on the case, too.

Offline Prelim

  • Posts: 649
  • Location: Portugal
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 09:49:02 »
Noctua D15 (normal version or S - one fan version) it a better option. You should only consider the Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme, which is the dual tower comparable with the D15... you will get exactly the same performance (1ºC or none differences) 

I actually have a Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme, since I got it cheaper than the D15 ;)
2x GH60 revC - lubed Linjärs 65g / lubed H1s 65g with SPRIT 5mm acrylic plate | Dolch PAC - Cherry housing / Gateron sliders 65g and QMK clips | Raptor K1 G80-1890 stock 
Floating on Cherry/GMK caps - White on Black, Classic Beige, Dolch, Olivetti, Alcatel MMK, Hellgrau

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 11:19:05 »
Thanks, everyone. I've decided to add Dark Rock Pro 4 to the list. I don't like 12 cm, I don't like BeQuiet due to the ugly noise from the two SW3 hi-speeds I have in my system (clearly audible above 500 rpm and not really viable past 7000), but I've just seen a normalized-noise test in addition to some other tests, placing the Rock ahead of the Noctua. And, it's cheaper. And, it's easier to buy used. Still, I'd rather stick with either Noctua (in general) or the Macho. Gotta take some measurements and see if I can fit the D15 or at least D15S in the case.

Is there any AIO within the same price range that could be expected to make no discernible pump sound when working in office applications at night?

Interestingly, I've just taken a look at a review of my current cooler — https://whatnext.pl/test-chlodzenia-gelid-phantom-black/ — and it seems to not be that bad. So I guess I'll have to see. I was going to upgrade from the 8350K anyway, so let's see, perhaps my unit was a particularly bad case of the 8th gen's problems and a 9600/9700K will do better.
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 July 2020, 11:43:56 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4771
  • Location: England
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 11:58:39 »
Can I suggest you invest in some headphones?  Even if you don't have anything playing they will block out lots of fan/pump noise.  Also what load are you trying to cool?  If a heatsink can handle a 150W overclock better that's great, but it doesn't mean anything if you're only cooling 100W.
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 14:12:29 »
Thanks, Orange. I already have a pair, though I prefer not to use them. I have a set of ear plugs I often have to use due to loud neighbours, lawn mowers, visiting families and all other sorts of force majeure. Best spent half a buck ever. ;)

I'm really a bit of a princess when it comes to wanting to hear exactly nothing from the PC unless focusing very, very hard, when working on the desktop or in office software or browsing the Internet, and only civilized brushes, wooshes and hums when gaming. No pulsating crap, no high-pitched nonsense. I've been capable of achieving this at various points before, but there always comes the time when either one of the fans goes band and you don't know which, or the whole thing for some reason, somehow, starts acting up as a whole.

It also depends where I sit. For example, I have sound mats glued under the surface of my desk, so when I hover above the desk surface, I hear practically nothing, but if I recline deep into my chair I suddenly hear a bloody grapeshot of ear-jerking rotor whine. Just by shifting my body position without even moving from my chair — probably the difference between having my head above the front intakes vs in front of them. Meaning the Silent (uh oh) Wings 3 hi-speeds probably have to go. But that's okay, I already have a pair of 20CM CoolerMasters for those slots. I'm pretty sure the CPU cooler is producing some ugly scratching low sounds similar to a lawnmower from a distance or a taxiing plane or whatever. And the rear exhaust — a very good 14cm Phanteks I got with my case (Enthoo Pro) 5 years ago — is getting loud above 800 rpm, so I' might as well splurge out and replace everything with NIP Noctuas and forget it for a couple of years.

And yes, the case is soundproofed. But it actually sounds worse closed than open, so it's probably the echo of a large and mostly empty closed chassis. I should probably buy a smaller tower now that I no longer need drive bays. Should be easier to avoid the echo, vibrations and everything else, especially if I manage to put it somewhere far enough from the desk.

Anyway, I can distinctly hear the CPU cooler under heavy gaming loads, and it's just too loud, so I'll have to replace it whether or not I replace the rest.

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4771
  • Location: England
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 20 July 2020, 14:51:26 »
That's even more intriguing - what heavy games do you play without music or noise?

If you really have two 20cm and a 140mm case fan can't you just use some ducting to skip the dedicated heatsink fan?  Looking at the graphs in the linked review your current heatsink doesn't benefit much from increased airflow which suggests it should work.  Get a 140 to 180/200mm adaptor and mount that on the back of the case for even better performance.  In the name of silence I'm assuming you've already removed the grille from that fan...
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 00:47:37 »
case isolation should absorb echo and vibrations although make the whole system run hotter, and it looks like you could just upgrade the fans on your current heatsink from what i heard gelid makes some decent products, with good thermal paste and better fan you could get the noise down by quite a bit and be cheaper (and yeah thermal paste can make a fairly large difference, up to 5C in normalized tests)
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline absyrd

  • CPT HYPE PADAWAN
  • Posts: 3300
  • Location: Philly Burbs
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 02:57:14 »
**** AIOs. Air is fine. I love my d15, and the mounting is solid and easy.
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 1091
  • Location: Asia
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 03:20:22 »
I'm really a bit of a princess when it comes to wanting to hear exactly nothing from the PC unless focusing very, very hard, when working on the desktop or in office software or browsing the Internet, and only civilized brushes, wooshes and hums when gaming. No pulsating crap, no high-pitched nonsense. I've been capable of achieving this at various points before, but there always comes the time when either one of the fans goes band and you don't know which, or the whole thing for some reason, somehow, starts acting up as a whole.

It also depends where I sit. For example, I have sound mats glued under the surface of my desk, so when I hover above the desk surface, I hear practically nothing, but if I recline deep into my chair I suddenly hear a bloody grapeshot of ear-jerking rotor whine. Just by shifting my body position without even moving from my chair — probably the difference between having my head above the front intakes vs in front of them. Meaning the Silent (uh oh) Wings 3 hi-speeds probably have to go. But that's okay, I already have a pair of 20CM CoolerMasters for those slots. I'm pretty sure the CPU cooler is producing some ugly scratching low sounds similar to a lawnmower from a distance or a taxiing plane or whatever. And the rear exhaust — a very good 14cm Phanteks I got with my case (Enthoo Pro) 5 years ago — is getting loud above 800 rpm, so I' might as well splurge out and replace everything with NIP Noctuas and forget it for a couple of years.

Sounds like some really long cables and a PC in a closet or another room might be a good solution here.

Offline -Jerry-

  • Posts: 336
  • Location: Bath, UK
  • OR '1'='1'
    • Jerry Talks Tech
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 03:29:30 »
Sounds like some really long cables and a PC in a closet or another room might be a good solution here.

You can't beat 'server cabinet in the basement and fibre media converters' for noise isolation, but it isn't half expensive.
"Romeo"     "Split75"   "Melody96"     "KBD8X MKII"     "Womier K87"

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 03:35:51 »
Sounds like some really long cables and a PC in a closet or another room might be a good solution here.
now that thunderbolt is no longer an intel/apple exclusive you could even go for a Linus style computer in the attic and 1 thunderbolt cable to a hub on the desk for a reasonable price and get absolute silence (Linus from Linus tech tips is a bit of a silence "freak" too it seems)
speaking of youtuber there is a channel called diyperks that is also run by a silence "freak" and he made a few computers with the explicit aim of them being as silent as possible, although his builds can be somewhat dangerous sometimes (he has gone as far as removing the casing and fan on power supplies) it may be a good source of inspiration if you want to go the fully custom route.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 1091
  • Location: Asia
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 03:44:57 »
It was a serious suggestion :) 

USB, HDMI cables should be able to run 4-5m without issue.

Offline -Jerry-

  • Posts: 336
  • Location: Bath, UK
  • OR '1'='1'
    • Jerry Talks Tech
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 04:11:19 »
Really depends on housing situation I guess. If you own the place, you're fine I guess since you can route between floors or rooms. If you don't, you'll be lucky to get ethernet. Having run a 10m flat cable upstairs, under the carpet runners, etc. I know that pain.

Curse the UK housing market.
"Romeo"     "Split75"   "Melody96"     "KBD8X MKII"     "Womier K87"

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 1091
  • Location: Asia
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 05:00:40 »
Even adapting a standalone wardrobe with a big slow speed exhaust fan and tossing the computer in there sounds like less pain than the existing setup.

I've run PCs and servers in a wardrobe for noise reasons. Thankfully, it was big enough that I didn't need to worry about additional venting.

Offline -Jerry-

  • Posts: 336
  • Location: Bath, UK
  • OR '1'='1'
    • Jerry Talks Tech
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 05:23:41 »
Oh definitely, though the easiest possible thing is to just accept that PCs make a little noise, but then, I work in computing, so am in rooms full of computers all day so my home PC is quiet in comparison.

Cupboards and wardrobes can certainly be good places to stash machines though, I've got a Lenovo ThinkCentre Tiny hidden in our TV cabinet, sitting on some foam baffles so it doesn't vibrate, running as a Security Onion and ntopng instance.
"Romeo"     "Split75"   "Melody96"     "KBD8X MKII"     "Womier K87"

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 11:53:38 »
Well, I have plenty of room on my wardrobes and book shelves — their top surfaces are like 1,5 ft / 45 cm away from the ceiling, and horizontal space is not an issue. Truth be told, I could also use some extra leg room (6'5'' tall stuck at the desk in the corner of the room). A cube case (enough clearance for a large CPU cooler and thick sound insulation) would work, or something along the lines of CM HAF. Bonus: no picking up dust from the floor (though there's plenty enough up there). Could probably place a slow-moving desk fan near the intake to help things along (if I can find one with an inaudible motor & bearing) or come up with something else that's not as expensive as a traditional custom loop. For example something that takes up some space and won't fit in a PC case and isn't normally done for computers but would work on top of a bookshelf/wardrobe without eating through my savings. Dunno — a bunch of sleeves perhaps? I'm pretty sure a 24 dbA-rated pump wouldn't be a problem from 2.5 yards away.

I've also thought about buying one of those really well soundproofed cases but using a bit more lively cooling equipment inside than is normally the case.

As for the ugly vibration-like sounds, sigh… I suck at physics so I can't guarantee I'm not spouting utter nonsense right now, but it kind of looks like the PC case is picking up vibrations from outside my block of flats (11th floor) — my fridge (yes, I'll be making sure to replace it with something dead-quiet when its time comes) inside and construction/services equipment on the outside. (The municipal services are always doing something at night.) And this is even though I keep the PC on a thick gym mat, the kind people use for washing machines or, well, gym equipment. (In addition to the sound mat glued under my desk surface.)

Thus, what I hear is on the one hand not from the computer as a source, it's not generated by the computer, but the computer seems to catch it like a bunch of diseases and amplify it, especially when it has like 5 or 6 fans, even high-qualiy fans, spinning even at low rpms. The case — Phanteks Enthoo Pro — isn't really ideal for vibrations/noise, I guess.

As for beefy CPU cooling, I'll be buying it anyway because the software I use for work could potentially use any amount of CPU power for what it does. Being CAT (computer-assisted translation) software, what it does is reading and writing databases all the time, real time, as you go on translating stuff sentence after sentence. And the software is pretty much single-core, badly underoptimized, etc. The files are often multiple, and large. I don't need a supercomputer for it by any means but reducing microlags and subjectively felt typing lag would go a long way towards preserving my sanity (whatever's left of it). Besides, any work-related excuse for more gaming power is good, of course.

I've run PCs and servers in a wardrobe for noise reasons. Thankfully, it was big enough that I didn't need to worry about additional venting.

Definitely an option for me. Could leave the door slightly opened, of course. Or install additional fans in the wardrobe itself and/or some kind of duct to help guide the air.
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 July 2020, 11:55:13 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 01:38:30 »
if you think your pc is picking up vibrations from somewhere else you may have a bit too much play in some panels, maybe try tightening the screws or adding rubber/plastic washer to them but to be honest you case does not look that optimized for silence
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 08:02:22 »
Yeah, the Phanteks Enthoo Pro isn't a silence-optimized case. It was supposed to be flow-optimized, with plenty of room for large fans. In retrospect, perhaps I should've stuck with silenced cases. Still, at various points in time I've been able to keep this PC totally quiet.

I can't be sure but perhaps the sound proofing in the case is bending the wing when screwing it on, which could be counterproductive. Or perhaps there are too many cables on the other side. I've run out of rubber washers, so I'll have to buy a new supply.

Meanwhile I've just nailed a heavily discounted 9600KF for my z390 mobo, so I'll see if the current cooler (Gelid Phantom) isn't perhaps sufficient, in addition to replacing the 2x140mm fans from the front of the case, which have a lot to do with these vibrations, despite using rubber bolts instead of Screws. I've got a pair of CM 20cm fans (the other one is for top exhaust) that I haven't tested yet, and if they can't do the job, I'll probably just get two 20cm Noctuas and perhaps put rubber jackets on them.

Also: any new opinions on Le Grand Macho vs NH-D15? Or beefy single towers vs double towers? Or some sort of AIO that's actually on par with these super air coolers in performance and sound without being much more expensive?

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 08:39:33 »
Also: any new opinions on Le Grand Macho vs NH-D15? Or beefy single towers vs double towers? Or some sort of AIO that's actually on par with these super air coolers in performance and sound without being much more expensive?
from a fairly old linus tech tips video they tested a few AIO against an NH-D15 and found out that anything less than triple fan could not beat it in noise and thermals so either AIO tech as gone way up or the D15 is still your best bet or a discounted 360mm or above AIO if you can find and fit one
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline absyrd

  • CPT HYPE PADAWAN
  • Posts: 3300
  • Location: Philly Burbs
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 12:19:32 »
And a d15 doesn't crap out on you or make pump noise. I have my 3600x OC'd to 4.25ghz all core with a d15 in a fractal define case, and I can never hear it.
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline clik_clak

  • Posts: 423
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 12:23:08 »
And a d15 doesn't crap out on you or make pump noise. I have my 3600x OC'd to 4.25ghz all core with a d15 in a fractal define case, and I can never hear it.

To be a little pedantic, 4.25 isn't an OC. It's actually an underclock from max boost with a 3600x.

OC'ing on AMD isn't really a thing.

Offline absyrd

  • CPT HYPE PADAWAN
  • Posts: 3300
  • Location: Philly Burbs
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 15:18:44 »
And a d15 doesn't crap out on you or make pump noise. I have my 3600x OC'd to 4.25ghz all core with a d15 in a fractal define case, and I can never hear it.

To be a little pedantic, 4.25 isn't an OC. It's actually an underclock from max boost with a 3600x.

OC'ing on AMD isn't really a thing.

Right now it isn't. And I do like an all-core OC for folding rather than max boosting a core at high voltage.
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline clik_clak

  • Posts: 423
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 15:21:40 »
And a d15 doesn't crap out on you or make pump noise. I have my 3600x OC'd to 4.25ghz all core with a d15 in a fractal define case, and I can never hear it.

To be a little pedantic, 4.25 isn't an OC. It's actually an underclock from max boost with a 3600x.

OC'ing on AMD isn't really a thing.

Right now it isn't. And I do like an all-core OC for folding rather than max boosting a core at high voltage.

Again, it's not an OC. Locking the clock at a speed less than max boost clock is not overclocking.

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 23 July 2020, 01:06:36 »
And a d15 doesn't crap out on you or make pump noise. I have my 3600x OC'd to 4.25ghz all core with a d15 in a fractal define case, and I can never hear it.

To be a little pedantic, 4.25 isn't an OC. It's actually an underclock from max boost with a 3600x.

OC'ing on AMD isn't really a thing.
OC'ing isn't really a thing on both side right now, all cpu sold are pushed to their limits out of the box cause intel is still on skylake and AMD is trying it's hardest to take all the crowns, including gaming, so they both bin their cpu to get them as fast as possible. and although yeah it is an "under clock" from max boost, max boost is only reached on 1 core, here it is all cores, an all core load would not boos that high and definitely not for extended time, so for a folding workload, yeah that is giving extra performances and is above the normal clocks
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 15:38:18 »
Speaking of OC, I suppose a moderate one doesn't make much sense for a normal 9600KF (which I've just bought), given the 4.60 turbo clock and games would generally trigger turbo?


Offline -Jerry-

  • Posts: 336
  • Location: Bath, UK
  • OR '1'='1'
    • Jerry Talks Tech
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 16:49:13 »
Speaking of OC, I suppose a moderate one doesn't make much sense for a normal 9600KF (which I've just bought), given the 4.60 turbo clock and games would generally trigger turbo?

I've got a 9700KF in a Z390 Aorus Master and all I did was enable all core turbo in the BIOS. The turbo frequency of the 9700 is 4.9GHz, not 4.6GHz and that is reflected - system tells me all eight cores are at 4.9GHz.
"Romeo"     "Split75"   "Melody96"     "KBD8X MKII"     "Womier K87"

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 644
  • Location: Acworth, GA
  • PC Cannibal
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 31 July 2020, 10:53:58 »
In my personal rigs I will always run custom water cooling, just how I am as I like to build something tailored to me that ends up looking like a work of art (doesn't mean there aren't some beautiful air coolers on the market).  Now for my son's rig I stick w/ air cooling since he hasn't wanted to learn how to mod and custom cool his machine yet (he's only 5), but i do want to change out his spare part air cooler for either a Noctua or beQuiet tower cooler, since what is on there can cool his 3770 but not as well as I would like it to.
When it comes to fan noise, quiet and high performance at low RPM always means you're going to spend more on a good fan.  I do love Noctua's fans, especially their REdux and Industrial line (now there's Chromax to add to that line-up). But there are alot of high quality fans on the market that perform as well if not better, they're just not easy to get ie: NoiseBlocker fans and Gentle Typhoon AP-15's (which have been brought back by Darkside).
In the end and depending on the use case I normally lean towards recommending a good air cooler to a client or friend just to cut down on their maintenance, especially if they can't afford down time on their machines.  It's good to see competition in the space so we get better pricing on our end over-all.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline Sniping

  • Posts: 861
  • Location: California
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 31 July 2020, 11:45:38 »
Go water.  These coolers are getting really heavy and dangerous for side mounting.

is that really the opinion now? i always thought the nh-d14 ran quieter and with better performance.

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4771
  • Location: England
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 07 August 2020, 07:00:28 »
Go water.  These coolers are getting really heavy and dangerous for side mounting.

is that really the opinion now? i always thought the nh-d14 ran quieter and with better performance.

Two different sides of the argument - both true.  Except the 'getting' dangerously heavy part - the 1.9kg (without fan) Thermal Right Ultra Extreme copper tower makes the Noctua look light at just 1.35kg and that was released in 2008.  See also the Scythe Susanoo at 1.56kg inc fan from 2011.
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 August 2020, 09:32:15 by suicidal_orange »
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline JP

  • Posts: 359
  • Location: Indianapolis, IN ander, our true elevated elder.
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 07 August 2020, 07:38:38 »
I bought a Noctua air cooler 5+ years ago and it's been stellar. Not only that, they made a bracket available so I can run an AM4 CPU now.
About Me | The Collection
Therapy is expensive so I buy keyboards and bike parts.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 10 August 2020, 13:27:39 »
In my personal rigs I will always run custom water cooling, just how I am as I like to build something tailored to me that ends up looking like a work of art (doesn't mean there aren't some beautiful air coolers on the market).  Now for my son's rig I stick w/ air cooling since he hasn't wanted to learn how to mod and custom cool his machine yet (he's only 5), but i do want to change out his spare part air cooler for either a Noctua or beQuiet tower cooler, since what is on there can cool his 3770 but not as well as I would like it to.

I really would love to play around with water, but I just can't justify the expense or spare the time, and I'm a bit shy of the risks. Plus, don't want a pump. So I kind of end up in the market for those powerful air coolers that compete with AIOs.

Quote
When it comes to fan noise, quiet and high performance at low RPM always means you're going to spend more on a good fan.

Yeah. Strong, quiet, cheap — pick any three. ;) I've pulled a bunch of 100-hour weeks lately, so I'm not as cash-starved now as I used to be. I'm honestly ready to splurge out on NH-D15/Macho RT/DRP4/Mugen 5/whatever and forget it.

Quote
I do love Noctua's fans, especially their REdux and Industrial line (now there's Chromax to add to that line-up). But there are alot of high quality fans on the market that perform as well if not better, they're just not easy to get ie: NoiseBlocker fans and Gentle Typhoon AP-15's (which have been brought back by Darkside).

Yeah. I know Noctua's great but not perfect, and ideally I'd nail down those cheaper fans from less renowned brands that actually perform better with less noise, and only because they're cheaper. Kind of obsessing after the performance/noise balance, but with more stress on noise.

Quote
In the end and depending on the use case I normally lean towards recommending a good air cooler to a client or friend just to cut down on their maintenance, especially if they can't afford down time on their machines.  It's good to see competition in the space so we get better pricing on our end over-all.

Which one of those super coolers would be your personal favourite? The way I see it, D15 seems to be the most solid contender, though it occasionally gets beaten by Dark Rock Pro 3/4, LGM RT or Mugen 5, with Ninja 5 and Fuma 2 in tow.

As far as heatsinks go, I already have a 200W-rated Gelid Phantom dual-tower with stock fans that can get noisy and an ancient Thermalright Ultra 120 (probably non-Extreme) that's been through several CPUs and currently has no fans. Thus, buying two 12cm fans is still an option. But at the prices fans command these days, buying replacement fans without replacing the heatsink looks like a bad bargain. On the other hand, there is some value in having the opportunity to handpick your fans, I guess. The fins on the ultra are quite densely packed, so perhaps a classic pressure fan would perform well, but I really don't have enough experience to tell.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 10 August 2020, 13:32:55 »
Go water.  These coolers are getting really heavy and dangerous for side mounting.

is that really the opinion now? i always thought the nh-d14 ran quieter and with better performance.

Thermal Right Ultra Extreme copper

I fell in love. There's nothing as pretty as three or four pounds of bright copper.

I once had a shiny copper heatsink from Thermalright back when ~400 grams was considered beefy. It was a s478 cooler I mounted askew on AM-something-or-other with a couple of improvised distance pieces cut from white cable with a knife. And there was a 92mm CoolerMaster Green fan on top of it. The sole fan in that case, bar PSU, and it was still all cool. That was like 15 years ago. Feels like 50.

I bought a Noctua air cooler 5+ years ago and it's been stellar. Not only that, they made a bracket available so I can run an AM4 CPU now.

Let's say you force its fans to run at 1000 rpm. Is the sound still bearable for gaming without headphones?

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 13:49:17 »
Hey, guys. If I haven't bored you to death yet, I still haven't made up my mind, though I've absorbed dozens of tests and other materials by now, changing perspectives several times in the process.

For starters, I've reconsidered AIOs — and am leaning towards Arctics Liquid Freezer II 360, which seems to essentially run both cooler and quieter than Noctua's D15 in most situations.

However, I've seen tests showing popular air kings — D15, Dark Rock Pro, Macho, the higher Scythes and Themalrights, etc. — to be able to stay under 30 dBA even under heavy loads, in contrast to Freezer's 37 dBA bottom limit in the same tests. Yes, well, the LF does register much below 37 in some other tests, but whatever the absolute/objective values may be, the point is coming out with a bad difference in the same test. Or not so much a difference as a certain minimum noise level. AIO pumps do tend to have a certain minimum noise level.

As for air coolers, I've also found out that the 'kings' (tops of lineups, most prestigious units, etc.) that are best for extreme OCs on extreme CPUs (above 9900K @ 5 GHz) under extreme loads don't necessarily yield the best balance of noise and temperature on more modest processors, overclocks or loads, translating into e.g. 9600K or 9700K in gaming use with moderate OC, or for work. Where in gaming you want as much gaming power as possible while not drowning out whispered dialogue, quiet musical scores, etc.; and where at work you want dead silence, or at least no 'spikes' if Windows and Steam both decide to update at the same time while an antivirus scan is at work and you're talking on Skype with some office applications and browser tabs in the background plus a couple of things the system may be doing that you aren't even aware of.

So for example I've noticed that certain coolers which can't stand up to the 'kings' in completely extreme situations are actually quieter than them in normal gaming with a moderate overclock — and are closer to completely inaudible when not much active cooling is needed.

So for me:

1. Getting as close to total passive cooling for work is the most important thing. Semi-passive GPU, semi-passive PSU, all PWM fans with the ability to stop completely. Need the same for CPU. Or each at 300 rpm or something — or as high as can still be inaudible — without having to ramp up when Defender + Update + Steam decide to gang up on me while finishing a text at night, or when fast-scrolling video thumbnails on Facebook generates an insta-heavy load. And where total silence is impossible, I want the sound to be as tolerable as possible.

2. For gaming I just want the best balance of fps and dBA, within 150 bucks. For simplicity let's skip looking for the best bang for the buck and just nab the objective best thing that's within the budget (unless it's like 1% better than something that costs 50% less). Or even raise the arbitrary budget if there's a really good reason (e.g. complete asurance of complete silence within certain load limits).

I have zero experience with water cooling or any other pumps, so I lack the imagination to 'visualize' (ekhm) pump sound levels, but I have exceptional hearing + elevated sensitivity (some neurological crap), so I'm more likely to be affected negatively than most people.

So skip AIO or not? Bar the uncertainty about the pump, Liquid Freezer II 360 would be my pick.

If sticking with air, D15, Dark Rock Pro 4, non-pro 4 (weaker but quieter), Le Grand Macho RT, Ninja 5 (with or without a fan upgrade, as it's cheap enough to leave some bucks for more expensive fans)?

Alternative way: best possible 14 or 12 cm fans for my existing heatsinks — Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme and Gelid Phantom. The question therefore comes down to what's the best 12/14 cm fan for dense fins on a thick single tower (Ultra) or a bit more sparse fins on thinner dual towers (about the thickness of a fan) in push-pull (Phantom). Out of 12 cm fans probably NF-A12, and out of 14 cm fans probably Arctic P14, I guess, at least according to tests, though I've heard good stuff about Cougars, and Noiseblocker eloops sometimes work well on heatsinks despite being flow fans.
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 August 2020, 13:57:55 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 10:59:27 »
Hi, guys, bumping this because I still haven't arrived at a decision — just too much work going on to be able to focus on this.

I'm leaning towards Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 (top) for CPU and Kraken G12 mount + Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 (front) for GPU.

Alternatively CPU: 280 AIO top front + 140 exhaust fan top rear

Alternatively GPU:240 AIO bottom, leaving case front to 1x140 or perhaps 1x200 for normal air intake not from the 1 cm of floor under the PC case.

Alternatively (air): deck the case out with Arctic P14 fans, put a two-tower cooler with 3xP14 on the CPU, Accelero Xtreme or Morpheus on GPU. All air, no AIO. No pumps, no leaking. System likely totally passive under low loads, could be further move into passive realm by replacing the CPU heatsink e.g. with Le Grand Macho or NH-D15.

Alternatively (open case/test bench): open frame on the wardrobe, farther away from my ear, no AIOs, maybe Dark Rock 4 or Dark Rock Pro 4 for silence + Accelero on GPU plus some two fans or so that could still be mounted on the open frame. (Alternatively AIOs could perhaps be hanged on the wall like pictures with the mobo laid flat horizontally below, so AIO is not totally out of the question with open frame, just less practical.)

Opinions?

« Last Edit: Wed, 02 September 2020, 11:04:27 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline yui

  • Posts: 1082
  • Location: 127.0.0.1 (in azerty)
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 03 September 2020, 01:15:09 »
with the AIO idea, the gpu may be the one to exhaust most heat so running it on a 280 and the cpu on a 360 may not be the best way around, if you have any choice on the matter and most AIO are meant to last 5 years so that's that, should not have too much trouble with them too soon. if you plan to keep your system untouched for longer than that then maybe air has the advantage. although you may want to make sure you have good cooling over your motherboard vrm and chipset, ram and gpu vrm either way as depending on the motherboard it may ramp up the fans if those are too hot even if the cpu and gpu are cold.
vi vi vi - the roman number of the beast (Plan9 fortune)

Offline Hak Foo

  • Posts: 1270
  • Make America Clicky Again!
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 03 September 2020, 01:23:59 »
I've had decent results with a Scythe Fuma 2 on my 3900X.  The clearances are perhaps a bit better with a 2x120 setup than the sinks with 140mm fans (a lot of cases won't fit a 140mm-fan tower heatsink).  You can get it audible if you deliberately ride it hard for a while, but the sounds of the GPU cooler (an ordinary triple-92mm 1080) tend to drown it out in real-world loads.  I tried an early-generation AIO once in the Haswell days and never felt confident it wasn't going to spray everywhere, but more importantly, it couldn't get anywhere near as quiet at low-load as a big heavy heatsink with a large PWM fan-- the pump still has to be churning.
Overton130, Box Pale Blues.

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4771
  • Location: England
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 05 September 2020, 11:34:29 »
The open bench with AIO wall hangings sounds a bit far and I'm not sure you need three fans on a heatsink if your primary goal is keeping the noise down.

If you're going 'custom on a cupboard' why not get a sealed box with a horizontal heatsink on both the CPU (this one?) and GPU and blast each with a 140mm intake from the sides, venting out the top?  I've been wanting to make something similar for a long time but it's still not got beyond the thinking stage.
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 634
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 14:02:28 »
Still haven't decided — too much work, too little time. Fortunately, this also means I've got a bit bigger budget now, so a $200 AIO wouldn't be out of the question. However, right now practically none of them seem to be better than Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 or 360 anyway on pure CPU temps, and there's a large advantage in VRM temps. Also D15 seems to provide better VRM temps than most other coolers, though I haven't seem any comparison against Le Grand Macho. If the reason is the oversized fan generating some flow close to VRM/mosfet heatsinks, then I guess the Macho shouldn't be far behind. Otherwise, old used $30 heatsinks such as D14 or TC14PE or Silver Arrow are marginally better than the D15's heatsinks, while Arctic P14 seems to be the best 140mm fan at the moment (bar maybe Thermalright TY-140/141/147). I've just bought a 5-pack of those for the case, but could also test them as CPU fans. An old heatsink plus one or two P14s looks like a good interim solution before Noctua releases a successor to the D15, which is slated for late 2021 but may well be delayed until 2022, I guess.

So… Perhaps I'll give the Liquid Freezer II a think? At 30–50cm the pump's supposed to generate 29 dBA, so chances are I may be able to hear it… sigh. But there's probably no way other than trying. I will first see how far the rpm on those P14 fans (same as on the 280 AIO, as they use their serial ones) fare acoustically via filter + case mesh. If I can have an inaudible 1000 rpm, I will consider the AIO. If they start being audible (over a dead-quiet case) at around 600 or so (as was the case with Silent Wings 3), then I'll have to give up on the idea of having an AIO and instead just use a bunch of low-rpm case intakes and exhausts and an air cooler (for example the same Silent Wings 3 are like 2–3 times quieter as CPU fans than as pullers-through-filters).

My current AIO list favours Liquid Freezer II 280 but also includes LFII 360 and H115i Platinum/Pro. Or a used Thermaltake or Kraken or whatever comes cheap just to test it for a year before it eventually dies (with the previous user having consumed most of its useful life, I guess).

My air list includes D15, D15S, Le Grand Macho RT, True Spirit Power 140, Fuma 2, and that's probably it.

My retro air list includes D14 (one third of the price of a new D15 if you're lucky), TC14PE (naked heatsinks can be cheap), and the old Silver Arrow with 4x8mm heatpipes and TY-140 fans.

My do-with-what-you-have list includes the aforementioned Gelid Phantom or TRUE with 2xP14 in lieu of the stock fans. Or 3x. (Some dual towers top out at 2 fans, only adding noise with a third, but some actually allow ridiculously low sound levels on relatively low RPMs by adding a third fan).

I could probably afford a custom loop due to all this overtime pay, but I'd honestly prefer a nice holiday trip instead. Or a new monitor. Or a new GPU.

Meanwhile also bought an Accelero Xtreme III for the GPU, so no AIO there in the closest future. Ex-factory it comes with 3x92 fans that some people claim max out at 29 dBA together, which I guess is not horrible for max game loud (though I'm gonna hear it). Noctuatherapy is always an option (NB-PS more like, or even a pair of 120x38mm fans, or just cheap 2xP12).

I'm kind of partial toward D15 for all sorts of reasons:

- possibly the highest TDP headroom of all coolers currently in the market — even though some may beat it to thermal-acoustic balance below the max, the D15's max is just higher
- VRM cooling
- something else I forgot.

But, if a new dual tower is coming out in 2021 along with a next-gen 140mm fan, I guess I'll pass unless I get a good deal on a used one.

I'm reasonably happy that with a pair of Arctics either of my two old heatsinks is already capable of giving me a silent PC, the rest just being the matter of how big an OC I can get away with before things get louder.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 October 2020, 14:06:33 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline Techie007

  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Ohio
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 04 August 2021, 17:55:28 »
Still haven't decided — too much work, too little time. Fortunately, this also means I've got a bit bigger budget now, so a $200 AIO wouldn't be out of the question. However, right now practically none of them seem to be better than Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 or 360 anyway on pure CPU temps, and there's a large advantage in VRM temps. Also D15 seems to provide better VRM temps than most other coolers, though I haven't seem any comparison against Le Grand Macho. If the reason is the oversized fan generating some flow close to VRM/mosfet heatsinks, then I guess the Macho shouldn't be far behind. Otherwise, old used $30 heatsinks such as D14 or TC14PE or Silver Arrow are marginally better than the D15's heatsinks, while Arctic P14 seems to be the best 140mm fan at the moment (bar maybe Thermalright TY-140/141/147). I've just bought a 5-pack of those for the case, but could also test them as CPU fans. An old heatsink plus one or two P14s looks like a good interim solution before Noctua releases a successor to the D15, which is slated for late 2021 but may well be delayed until 2022, I guess.
...
I'm kind of partial toward D15 for all sorts of reasons:

- possibly the highest TDP headroom of all coolers currently in the market — even though some may beat it to thermal-acoustic balance below the max, the D15's max is just higher
- VRM cooling
- something else I forgot.

But, if a new dual tower is coming out in 2021 along with a next-gen 140mm fan, I guess I'll pass unless I get a good deal on a used one.

I'm reasonably happy that with a pair of Arctics either of my two old heatsinks is already capable of giving me a silent PC, the rest just being the matter of how big an OC I can get away with before things get louder.

Hey, I just saw your post and wanted to note that if you're using an Intel CPU, it's not even close between the Noctua D15s and the Grand Macho—get the Grand Macho!  I've bought several of both and regret buying the Noctuas.  Trying to cool an i7-10700k CPU, the NH-D15s settles down at a paltry 150-160w thermal throttle while emitting a high-pitched whine.  The Grand Macho settles down at a significantly better 190-200w thermal throttle, while emitting a more pleasant lower-pitched hum.

Noctua NH-D15s PROs:
-The fan can spin all the way down to around a virtually inaudible 180rpm, and even stop by PWM control.
-The thermal block is shaped universally, fitting both Intel and AMD CPUs and making good contact.
CONs:
-Significant space and offset between the back of the cooler and the average case's aux fan area results in most of the heat going back into the case unless you design a custom duct or use a powerful aux fan.
-The heatsink fins are too close together, severely restricting airflow through the heatsink.
-Only six heatpipes.

Grand Macho PROs:
-It uses a skewed (uncentered) design that puts the cooler and fan behind the RAM, positioning the exhaust in line with most case's aux fan, resulting in most of the heat going straight out of the case instead of getting recirculated again and again.
-Large space between the heatsink fins allows air to flow easily through.
-It has seven heatpipes.
-Fan is quieter.
CONs:
-Fan idles all the time at 300rpm, incapable of stopping for passive cooling, even though the heatsink has good passive heat radiation capability.
-Aggressive curvature in the thermal block frequently causes poor contact on AMD CPUs.
-It is slightly bigger, which could cause fitment issues.

You noted the NH-D15s has "probably the highest TDP headroom of all coolers currently on the market".  This is not the case.  Before Noctua stopped advertising those figures, they specced the NH-D15s as able to dissipate up to 220w of power.  Unless you have a ton of case fans running full speed all the time and no GPU heat, I can tell you right now that it's going to max out at 150w on an Intel processor.  The Dark Rock 4 Pro is specced at a slightly higher 250w, and I haven't tried it.  The Grand Macho is specced at 300w, and they've been maxing out around 200w for me.  I believe these figures would be accurate if the CPU were delidded.  But the thermal gradient on a stock Intel processor results in the processor reaching 100°C before those figures can be reached, even though the coolers aren't seeing all of that heat.  AMD CPUs generally have better heat transfer due to larger die-spread.

Moving on to AIOs... You are correct about the Arctic LF II; it is one of the best AIOs you can buy.  Disappointed with the premium air coolers, I tried the Arctic LF II 280, and I believe it would be able to dissipate about 230w continuously with my setup.  However, I quickly discovered that my new limitation was VRM temps!  Their little VRM fan is purely a gimmick; I measured no discernable difference in VRM thermal throttled TDP with it spinning or with it stalled.  Unfortunately for me, I get better performance with the Macho than with the LF II 280, because the VRM throttles all the way down to about 140w after a few minutes.  Adding a bunch of case fans (and noise!) was able to raise it to maybe 160w, while the Macho is able to get 200w continuous out of the same system.  So unless you purchased a premium motherboard that has huge VRM heatsinks, water cooling probably isn't a good idea.  Thought I would share my experience on the topic with you!

Offline geauxflying

  • Posts: 54
Re: Noctua NH-D15(S) vs Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 04 August 2021, 20:15:51 »
I’ve never used le grand macho, but air coolers consistently seem to out-perform AIOs in the YouTuber tests, and they are quieter. I have used the Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 in at least 4 computers. I like the BQ fans better than Noctua fans but Noctua probably does a marginally better job of cooling. I’ve never had problems with temperatures with the Dark Rock Pro 4, even in restricted-airflow cases.

I’ll probably keep using BQ or Noctua until I feel like I need a custom loop (which will probably happen never). Maybe, MAYBE, I’ll go with an AIO if I can find a really good one… it’ll have to be quieter than BQ, and cool better than Noctua, and cost less than 3 times what those coolers cost. There isn’t an AIO cooler on the market that can claim that right now.