Which profile for a noob moving up from scissor switch board?

[SinnerG]

Noob walks thru the door...

Right, so I'm finally a mechanical keyboard owner.
It's been 19 or 20 years (yes, I'm "getting" old) since I last banged on a mechanical keyboard of any sorts. I spent plenty of time hammering SGI AT101 granite boards and making noise on a IBM 3151 serial terminals.

After that, I've been left in the ocean of rubbery dome like things in which I found an island of scissor switches.

I'm looking for personal experiences from those who might have been scissor switch users who have moved up to a proper mechanical board. Reason is that I'm not quite getting the hang of these tall OEM keys on my WASD CODE keyboard after spending so much time on super flat things like my now 9-year old Logitech UltraX. Looking to see which key cap profiles made an easier transition for scissor switch users.

DSA, of course, seems to be best bet. But a mostly expensive one.
Then there's DCS and Cherry profile which are much lower in height than the OEM items. But the Cherry profile seems difficult to find.

Which did you switch to that worked and felt best? Cap material being irrelevant.

Sadly, I can't simply order in a set of DSA and Cherry in order to see which I prefer. I'm not in a market where I can easily shift a $100 set of keycaps.

[munch]

Cherry profile is even more expensive than DSA usually.
DSA comes in blank ones that are not too highly priced, but if you want ones with legends on them you might have to go up a bit in price. you could buy something used off of the classifieds here perhaps.

I do think DSA feel more like the flat boards that I've used before, like IBM laptop keyboards, but the switch travel makes the bigger difference overall.
if you really want something that isn't far off, there's the "jailhouse blues" Cherry MX Blue modification that makes the actuation point a lot higher up, and then you could add a thick ring, to get a really short travel key, and use DSA keycaps on it as well.

[ileben]

I do think DSA feel more like the flat boards that I've used before, like IBM laptop keyboards, but the switch travel makes the bigger difference overall.

I found DSA really disappointing in my experience, because the profile is non-sculpted (all rows the same), which in combination with spherical tops (not flat like a usual scissor switch keyboard) makes it really awkward to type on any kind of inclination (and most mechanical keyboards, including WASD have at least a slight inclination built in, even without raising the flaps at the back).

Personally, I used to use a MacBook so I did my fair share of coding on scissor switch. In the mechanical world, I find cherry profile the most natural. Also, using a hard wristrest that matches the height of your keyboard (such as this https://www.massdrop.com/buy/hardwood-wrist-rests) makes the whole thing much more bearable for someone used to thin, flat keyboards.

Yes, silencing rings will reduce travel to make it closer to a scissor switch, but will kill the bottom out clack, so that might or might not be what you're looking for. I'd say try cherry profile and a wristrest first.

[ileben]

But the Cherry profile seems difficult to find.

There are some sets readily available here:
https://www.originativeco.com/products/stormtrooper
http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/category&path=62
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1333

The Vortex set in the last link looks reasonably priced for a test of the profile (although I can't say I'm a fan of the font and print method, they are PBT though).

EDIT: There's also this group buy which closes today, so you might get in if you're quick:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78563.0
Gets you a beautiful dye-sub set for $75

[rowdy]

I went from Apple aluminium keyboard to a Ducky Shine with OEM sculpted keycaps.  I just made myself get used to it.

A couple of years later I got around to trying DSA (Granite), but it didn't really grab me.  I think by then I was too accustomed to sculpted keycaps.

I also tried uniform R3 SA, which I actually liked more than the DSA.  SA is generally a bit taller than OEM anyway.

Your best bet is to just try to get used to the taller profile keycaps and keyboards

Also a wrist rest might help, as long as you remember it is to rest your wrists on between typing, NOT while you type.  You can try any smooth flat object (even a couple of books) to get the feel, and if a wrist rest is your thing then there are a few members here who make them.

[SinnerG]

Thanks for the info and recommendations. A Cherry profile hunt it is then.

Such bad timing on the dyesub GB though. The black on grey set would be perfect. The CODE is backlit, but I have no issues not having backlighting.
I prefer the dark grey or black colours over the beige.
Can't commit to the GB today, but I'll keep an eye out just in case it comes back.

The price on the Vortex keys is actually where my budget would currently sit.
I don't see those available in the darker colour right now.
I did find it on massdrop, so I added a request. Side print would be nice.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/vortex-pbt-keycaps

Excuse the noob question, but what's the concern with laser etch over dyesub printing? Does the laser etch wear out or trap dirt?

I've tried the o-rings, but they were a disappointment. They really took away from the feel. I did leave the o-ring on the backspace and the left shift though as those 2 just seemed off compared to the rest of the switches.

I'll slap together a makeshift wrist rest. I agree it will probably make a big difference by bringing the height down.
I've had a plan for some time now to resurface my desk at home using a thick sheet of MDF, but have planned to route a recess for the keyboard. That would drop the height too. Worth a try.

[rowdy]

I have some Ducky yellow laser etched keycaps.  Unless the light hits them just right, they are for all intents and purposes blank.

Dyesub kinda soaks the sye into the keycap surface and the legends will not wear off for years.

Doubleshot is where the legend is one plastic, and the rest of the keycap is another.  Doubleshots will never wear out, not even if you sand the keycap surface down.

[SinnerG]

I think I have seen those Ducky yellows with laser etch. I've seen some with relatively deep engraving too, but even in online photos it is near impossible to see the legends. That wouldn't work well with my current typing skill.

Are there any durability issues with the laser etch, though?
I assume they would stand out more on a darker key substrate.

I think as a starter set in Cherry profile I will opt for this set:
http://www.vortexgear.tw/vortex2_2.asp?kind=45&kind2=222&kind3=&kind4=1025

It's a good budget price it seems to get to a Cherry set to try out.

Same as in the massdrop link, I assume. Wouldn't mind side print, but I'm more interested in getting the profile to try out.

Daft thought... I'd love a set of keys with both QWERTY and Colemak legends. Has anyone ever done that?

[SinnerG]

Is it generally a difficult thing to order Vortex keycaps?
For the life of me I just can't figure out the purchasing process on their website (vortexgear.tw). There's no "Add to basket" anywhere.

None of their indicated distributors carry the set linked above either.

[quasistellar]

Although I personally haven't tried them, if you're used to scissor-switches you might give Signature Plastics' G20 keysets a glance.

As others have stated, DSA feels a bit weird on a keyboard with incline.  I have a feeling the G20 sets will feel similarly awkward in a non-flat keyboard, as well.

Otherwise, I'd go for Cherry profile.  GeekKeys has several sets of Cherry profiles in stock last time I checked, and there's some Vortex sets on MechanicalKeyboards.com.  I have a set of Vortex PBT Cherry profiles myself, and they are pretty decent.

[SinnerG]

I don't think I could work with G20. Might have spent a good few years on scissor switch with flat keys, but I don't think I'd be comfortable on the G20 keys.

Just got word back from Vortex today. Their online ordering should be functional soon. I'll just sit tight until that happens.

[Zorox]

If you are fond of flat (non-sculpt) and low profile then DSA is a go for you. Once you go cherry, you will be overwhelmed by its comfortable and it's hard to leave or try other profiles, and then the buying streak stops My 1st set was SA Uni R3, then Cherry, SA full sculpt and DSA now. And every profiles has its own value.

[Anastasia]

I recommend Cherry profile for MX stemmed switches. They just feel the best to me.

Or try Topre...

[crickclackman]

Steelseries M800 has low profile key.

[Hyde]

Steelseries M800 has low profile key.

^ This guy has the right idea.

Though realistically M800 is very expensive so you'd want something like:

Cherry Board 2.0
Cherry Board 3.0
Cherry Board 6.0

All 3 have similar profile to typical notebook scissor switch kind of keycaps.

And I'd actually vote against DSA since it's spherical, spherical key is like a love and hate type of deal.  Personally I just couldn't get used to it.

Realistically you'll have better chance of getting used to OEM profile or Cherry profile (if you chose not to go with Cherry Board 2.0/3.0/6.0 route).

Cheers ! 

[SinnerG]

I do have an odd resting hand pose that isn't helped with these tall OEM keys on the lower row. I keep tripping the left CTRL key from time to time causing all sorts of weirdness in visual studio. It's like a whole ton of menus go off. I've come to call this my 4DWM grip and sometimes I find myself using it even while I type. Sit down, rest left pinky on left edge of board just pushing finger tip up on ESC key, 4th finger hovering on F1, 3rd between function and number rows, index right on R, thumb on lower edge of board tucked in to hit ALT and the palm butted up against the lower left corner of the keyboard. I got that from my time with SGI window manager some 15-20 years ago. I used F1-F4, ESC, ALT quite a bit with that window manager. It was a quick move to bring the pinky in to hit tab. But those keyboards had a useful curve to them that helped.

The keys on the M800 and the Cherry boards look good indeed, but unfortunately I'm already invested in my CODE board. I'm going to go with the Vortex PBT Cherry profile key as soon as Vortex have their store up and running. I think that slight reduction in height will sort me out and then just need a good wrist rest. That and a deeper desk for home.

My CODE is travelling to work with me daily, so at some point I will get a dedicated board for the office. The Cherry Board 2.0 looks good, maybe with browns. No funds right at the moment for a whole new keyboard.