Newbie Questions for 1st build

[chungsteroonie]

Hello,

I'm just dipping my toe into the custom keyboard world, and I am certain folks here in the community field or ignore tons of ignorant questions from people just like me all the time.  I sincerely appreciate anyone who would offer their hard-earned knowledge and experience.  I am hoping someone might be able to point me towards the right products and information for a 1st build.  I will as briefly as possible provide some information about myself in hopes that someone knowledgeable might quickly be able to point me towards a starting point.

I am new to mechanical keyboards but proficient in most electronic and mechanical assembly.  I can do point to point assembly and am comfortable soldering on PCB's.  I have repaired several retail mechanical keyboards (removing/replacing broken switches, LED's, etc.).  I can do simple SMD repairs/modifications with rework station and traditional iron.

I know the sky is the limit with custom parts and configurations, but I am looking to start with maximum bang-for-buck while gaining entry into the most core functional benefits of a hand-assembled keyboard.  In other things like making custom microphones or bass guitars, one of my greatest joys is using the cheapest possible Chinese parts where they do not make any functional difference while spending money and time on essential parts like the capsule or,hand-wound pickups, or hand leveling frets to perfection.  As a point of reference, after trying all manner of "gamer" setups, my daily driver PC is now based on an eMachines case. . . not quite old enough to be beige and hip, but had the essential airflow features that a high powered modern system needs to operate.



I currently use a Corsair K65 and it works great for me.  TKL works fine for me as I need mouse space for gaming.  I can go smaller, but I like arrow keys and Page up/down.  If common means economical for form factor, I'm ok with it.  Gateron red switches had too light spring tension for me.  Those gamed fast, but I made too many typing errors resting my fingers on the board.  Cherry MX red switches in the Corsair K65 work for me in general.  I have no clue what's good or bad in switch-land, but if it's preferential in any way, I'm hoping this information is enough for someone to steer me towards something likely to be a good fit.

I like character illumination functionally.  The solid red of my Corsair K65 is 100% fine. . . white is also fine.  I don't know if that is a common thing in custom keyboard land, and I'm not super picky about the latest and greatest RGB, but illuminated characters help me. 

I have no clue what a "good" feel should be.  I prefer quieter/duller to louder but if there is any kind of consensus as to what "amazing" action and sonic profile should be (and that is something only achieved in a custom build), I'd like to experience that one please.  If it can be accomplished with less noise into my mic, that would allow me to use a more sensitive mic. . . perhaps one of my custom ones that I don't use for gaming partly because of the noise profile coming off the desk.

I keep a messy desk and would like to not have something that does not require regular disassembly and maintenance.  I have had enough experience replacing failed switches pit-crew style that I would like something durable if I'm going to spend the time and money putting it together.

Looking for a cheap thrill. . . willing to work a bit for it.  Any suggestions that can start me heading down the right path would be greatly appreciated.

[yui]

the part that will make the most difference in how a keyboard feel is by far the switches, gateron are my go to for linear as they are smooth and cheap, if red were to light maybe yellow would be better for you. for the rest by far the cheapest option would be to go soldered ANSI 60% plateless and caseless, but that will not make for the best sonic and visual, plastic case will in my experience make for a quieter board, and also cheaper.
If you do not mind waiting i had overall no problems with KPRepublic and kdbfans in europe, and if in europe closer would be Candykey, MyKeyboard and Prototypist, i can only talk of experience with them as i have not used others so far. and last time i ordered from kdbfans they had switched courier to Fedex, so if you have bad luck with Fedex maybe check with them before (so far out of 12 parcel i had 3 arrive damaged and 7 not arrive and had to go fetch them at fedex 50km away from where i live, 1 arrive in the wrong city altogether, and one actually arrived in one piece).
the hardest form factor to find atm is 100% the smaller you go the easier and cheaper it get, and if you do not mind SMD soldering there are even some opensource board you can get manufactured. it really depends on how much you want to get invested in it, and your overall budget. the cheapest custom i built ended up at around 80$ (unprogramable ANSI TKL with gat brown and cheap pudding caps), the most expensive at around 300$ (via programable 60% with alu case, CF plate, gat silent red, GMK caps, and sound dampening). you can go much higher than i did, but i do not think much lower, that tkl was pretty much trash, well it made someone happy as a gift but compared to everything else i got it was trash.
if you have more question i am sure quite a few of us here will be happy to help you.

[Maledicted]

If you've already got a K65 (I love those myself) that works for you in all regards, why do you want to assemble another board? What are you trying to get out of it? Personally, for gaming, I still use the first mechanical keyboard I ever purchased. A Corsair K70 with MX reds. Linears are linears. I have been using that board almost as long as they have been on the market. I haven't had any real reason to replace it for that purpose. Any linear works just fine for gaming, although I personally think MX red is itself just a bit too light.

You've mentioned you want TKL or smaller and, as a result, touched on using it for gaming. Most people end up preferring linear switches for gaming because they're the least distracting from the overall immersion of the game. You've already got a board that seems to meet your parameters for gaming though. Would you have any interest in trying something tactile or clicky for typing purposes?

What switches have you tried besides MX red and Gateron red? If that's all you've tried, it seems to me to be a little early to be trying to buy a board's worth of switches to toss into some kit assembly. If you don't have one, you should probably find the most comprehensive switch tester that you can find for the money so that you can get a good idea of what your tastes are. I usually recommend the 130 switch tester available on KPRepublic. There's a little overlap due to there being variants of the same switch on the tester, which I just see as an opportunity to eventually remove the duplicates to swap with boutique switches you find elsewhere that you may have some interest in.

[chungsteroonie]

Hi,

I'm located in the US.  I should adjust my profile information to display properly.  I'm not sure if YouTube has "oversold" the benefits of a custom keyboard.  I keep seeing videos of people going "ooooohhhhh!"  "Ahhhhhhh!" and comparing the "horrible" clanky sounds of a stock or untuned setup compared with a hand assembled custom board.  I figured there is a dedicated and passionate community of people who might be able to steer me in the right direction.  i have been making small adjustments to the computer devices that I touch and look at, and even subtle differences have improved my quality of life. . . like moving from a Logitech G203 mouse to a wireless G503, and changing from TN gaming displays to newer IPS panels.  I tried some cheap Chinese mechanical keyboards which worked fine, but once I found the Corsair K70, I liked the feel a little better so when used K65 came up on local classifieds, I picked a couple up for the home computers.

I like tinkering and don't mind it at all, but if I'm already experiencing the majority of the practical benefits of a "good mechanical keyboard" with a stock, used, cleaned K65, I'm ok to call it fine.  But, I have been led to believe by way of internet lore, celebrity custom builds, etc. . . that there is some sort of higher plane that I simply do not know about because I've never tried it.  That some magical combination of key materials, switches, and meticulous tuning can provide a truly superior user experience. If that is the case, I would like to at least try it once because I am sensitive to nuance and appreciate this kind of project.

After just a few hours of digging a little deeper, it seems like many of the common switch topologies and physical assemblies on off-the-shelf keyboards are fine.  A lot of the benefit of a custom job is in meticulously prepping the switches and stabilizer assemblies which is time consuming and requires some skill, experience, and practice to get just right but workable methods seem straight forward enough.

I like the K65 quite a bit and was trying to convey from my limited experience what works for me, and what my preferences are.  If those qualities can be kicked up a couple of notches with a custom build, I'd be interested to try it.

[Maledicted]

Hi,

I'm located in the US.  I should adjust my profile information to display properly.  I'm not sure if YouTube has "oversold" the benefits of a custom keyboard.  I keep seeing videos of people going "ooooohhhhh!"  "Ahhhhhhh!" and comparing the "horrible" clanky sounds of a stock or untuned setup compared with a hand assembled custom board.  I figured there is a dedicated and passionate community of people who might be able to steer me in the right direction.  i have been making small adjustments to the computer devices that I touch and look at, and even subtle differences have improved my quality of life. . . like moving from a Logitech G203 mouse to a wireless G503, and changing from TN gaming displays to newer IPS panels.  I tried some cheap Chinese mechanical keyboards which worked fine, but once I found the Corsair K70, I liked the feel a little better so when used K65 came up on local classifieds, I picked a couple up for the home computers.

I like tinkering and don't mind it at all, but if I'm already experiencing the majority of the practical benefits of a "good mechanical keyboard" with a stock, used, cleaned K65, I'm ok to call it fine.  But, I have been led to believe by way of internet lore, celebrity custom builds, etc. . . that there is some sort of higher plane that I simply do not know about because I've never tried it.  That some magical combination of key materials, switches, and meticulous tuning can provide a truly superior user experience. If that is the case, I would like to at least try it once because I am sensitive to nuance and appreciate this kind of project.

After just a few hours of digging a little deeper, it seems like many of the common switch topologies and physical assemblies on off-the-shelf keyboards are fine.  A lot of the benefit of a custom job is in meticulously prepping the switches and stabilizer assemblies which is time consuming and requires some skill, experience, and practice to get just right but workable methods seem straight forward enough.

I like the K65 quite a bit and was trying to convey from my limited experience what works for me, and what my preferences are.  If those qualities can be kicked up a couple of notches with a custom build, I'd be interested to try it.

The community is not a monolith, thankfully. There is no one true way to do anything at all. Even amongst subsets of preferences, you will find differing opinions and tastes. You have to find what you value through experience. I'm the opposite of just about all of that hyped-up Youtube stuff. I like my rattly Costar stabilizers and clicky switches.

Without having an idea of what you may or may not like yet, following the specific advise of anyone will get you the ideal keyboard of the person who advised you, and not necessarily anyone else.

If you haven't tried any other switches, you'll want a switch tester and to spend some time playing with the switches. Think about what you like and don't like about each switch in the tester in terms of feel and sound. If you have a local store that sells "gaming" keyboards, they might have some display models to play with too that would give you a better idea of how certain common switches feel and sound in a real board, but even amongst common OEM boards the overall experience can vary a lot.

Once you've narrowed that down, you can begin to look at what sorts of things you may end up preferring in a complete board. Even then, this is a journey. You don't get straight from point A to point B.

[Leslieann]

Love that box, especially the added ventilation and density.

Since you enjoy bang for the buck,
My advice, GMMK with some nice linears, either full kit of barebones, doesn't matter. Then get some lube and go at it. Lube and bandaid mod the stabs, lube the switches and drown in the awesomeness. If the springs are too soft, change them. With this there's no need for a switch tester, the board is your switch tester, it's also amazing bang for the buck and with a little effort becomes a giant slayer.

[chungsteroonie]

Love that box, especially the added ventilation and density.

Since you enjoy bang for the buck,
My advice, GMMK with some nice linears, either full kit of barebones, doesn't matter. Then get some lube and go at it. Lube and bandaid mod the stabs, lube the switches and drown in the awesomeness. If the springs are too soft, change them. With this there's no need for a switch tester, the board is your switch tester, it's also amazing bang for the buck and with a little effort becomes a giant slayer.

Thanks for the kind words about the eMachines build. . . the coolest part is the servo-actuated front vents (I call them bomb bay doors) that open and close automatically based on temperature.  An arduino reads one of the PWM fan signals from the motherboard to map its position so the case is fully upgradeable  

The GMMK (and pro) looks "silly reasonable" and everything I am seeing hails it as best value in its class.  I am a little sad to not solder, but being in the DIY electronics game, I know the barrier to entry for someone to pick up a soldering iron is high.  I guess the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Thanks for the recommendation.  The rabbit trail has been simplified.  The GMMK seems like a great way to tinker around.

[Leslieann]

The GMMK (and pro) looks "silly reasonable" and everything I am seeing hails it as best value in its class.  I am a little sad to not solder, but being in the DIY electronics game, I know the barrier to entry for someone to pick up a soldering iron is high.  I guess the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Thanks for the recommendation.  The rabbit trail has been simplified.  The GMMK seems like a great way to tinker around.

You're welcome.
Soldering is/was kind of a badge of honor in this hobby but it's not entirely dead just yet, hot swap's durability is not fantastic long term. I consider it a disposable system and I always recommend people buy with that in mind. I'm not saying it will only last a year or two, most people will get bored of the keyboard or rip a socket off the pcb before it really becomes an issue, I'm just saying I wouldn't expect any hot swap board to survive like your Corsairs, a Filco or Model M and you should tailor your spending to match that expectation.

While I too kind of lament the loss of soldered boards, really good, inexpensive hot swap keyboards like the GMMK and others make it difficult to mourn the coming loss.  Do I really care if my board lasts 10 years? It made sense in the past when we had a stagnant industry industry with few choices and no reason to upgrade but that's no longer the case.

[chungsteroonie]

I took a good long look at the GMMK, and I will probably get one at some point, but I was looking around at what I already have in my hands, and the Gateron experience I have is on a really cheap Rantopad MXX TKL keyboard which was the 1st mechanical keyboard that I got.  That board must have had a bad batch of Gateron Reds in it because they started failing one at a time a couple of months after I started using it. .  which is where I learned how to gut the thing and replace switches like a Nascar pit crew.  I remembered playing games with friends and on Discord coms saying, "Oh no!  My 'D' isn't working!"  LMAO.  I've always restored the board to "working" condition, but it sits in a bin right now because for whatever reason, it's a pingy, clacky mess for sound, but more importantly, I mis-type a lot on the Gateron Reds by accidental key actuation while my fingers are resting on the board.  I suspected the springs on the Gateron reds are too light for my typing.  In games it is very fast though and allows my hand to be relaxed, but mis-typing passwords all the time wasn't fun.  The exterior shell is also the key plate on the assembly which I believe is bent/stamped steel, and it seems stiff enough with an internal construction very "standard".  I like that it has individual white LED's on the keys which is functional for me.  I thought I'd try to improve it with some budget parts as a start.  All so the mod procedures for the standard plate mount boards seem to be applicable so I figure "free" is the best price for a platform to learn on and I can save an item from the eventual trash bin.   If the trajectory of the keyboard holds true, I will need to eventually replace all of the switches anyways.  I don't feel comfortable even giving it to a friend knowing the issues because they won't be able to pit-crew the thing.

Anyways, I purchased some budget Matrix PBT keycaps because the ones on there are truly horrible.  I also purchased some GMK/Cherry plate mount stabilizers and the Krytox lube stuff that many people seem to use.

I am looking for some decent budget switches.  One of the things lurking in the back of my mind is that a "silent" keyboard would be awesome to try because I have a closet full of really nice custom condensor microphones that I can't use for the standard computer setup because they are too sensitive to ambient noises, and I don't want to be "that guy" in discord with incessant clanking going on.  If I lower the noise profile of the keyboard and lower the frequency range of the noise, I might be able to flex on the microphone game every once in a while for LOL's 

I was looking at gateron silent yellow switches, but started reading that they tend to "stick" in the up/resting position due to the bumper material among other complaints. . . it seems the "really good" silent switches are a bit more wallet draining than this project warrants.  The other option is to just get a good, budget middle of the road gamer switch like the Gateron yellow and trust that lubing/modding the stabilizers and switches along with better sound characteristics of better keycaps will give it a new lease on life and  get the board back on my desk.  Perhaps I can sit with that for a while and consider my options from there.

[yui]

i have a board full of gat silent red, and never had any stickage problems, although reds have lighter spring, and i never opened the switches, they are fully stock, i also used everglide stabs packed with car part store lithium grease (the cheapest stuff they had), silenced them pretty good, made the board less noisy than all the old K120 and hp rubber dome boards in the office, and then GMK caps, and a deskmat made it even better, only to put it into an alu case and it became a pingy mess...
and i think others make silent switches now, although yellows are kinda gateron's thing

[Leslieann]

I have no experience but that sticking problem on yellows sounds more like a lube issue.
There's few reasons for them to stick unless the damper is swelling (from lube?) or the lube is creating a suction, I'd be willing to bet it's the latter.

It's not far fetched to think someone lubing linears could be a bit heavy handed since they don't need to be as precise with the lube compared to tactiles or clickeys. I'm surgical when applying it and tend to error on the side of caution in order to maintain that tactility but on a linear, I'd probably just be slapping it on haphazardly by comparison.

Again, I have no experience here, just throwing up one reason it could be happening. If it was me and I was interested in them I'd buy a pack of 10, lube them up and slap them in a hot swap to give them a try.

[treeleaf64]

Treeleaf recommendation for cheap thrill

Bakeneko 60 From the Cannonkeys

Gateron yellow Milk top from Novelkey. If you cannot get them, then buy Ks3 Gateron from 415keys
Also lube with Krytox 205g0 ( For the treeleaf annoyers  Yes I have actually used it and I think it is good)
There are videos of how to lube the switches

Then  you can use the included Cherry screw in  Stabilizer from the Bakeneko and that should be good. There are video showing how to clip and lube it.

[Maledicted]

Love that box, especially the added ventilation and density.

Since you enjoy bang for the buck,
My advice, GMMK with some nice linears, either full kit of barebones, doesn't matter. Then get some lube and go at it. Lube and bandaid mod the stabs, lube the switches and drown in the awesomeness. If the springs are too soft, change them. With this there's no need for a switch tester, the board is your switch tester, it's also amazing bang for the buck and with a little effort becomes a giant slayer.

Thanks for the kind words about the eMachines build. . . the coolest part is the servo-actuated front vents (I call them bomb bay doors) that open and close automatically based on temperature.  An arduino reads one of the PWM fan signals from the motherboard to map its position so the case is fully upgradeable  

That is awesome. You made yourself a budget Alienware Aurora then. What sort of temperatures do you get under load with everything stitched up? It looks like you packed as big of a CPU cooler as you could physically fit into the space in there too. I'm even only just now noticing that you cut holes in the bottom of the case for intake fans for the GPU. Fantastic work, I bet it doesn't break a sweat. How's the airflow to the PSU? I have worked on at least one system in that chassis. It did always seem like a keeper. How did you mount the SSD? Double-stick tape? Still have the old media card reader connected?

The GMMK (and pro) looks "silly reasonable" and everything I am seeing hails it as best value in its class.  I am a little sad to not solder, but being in the DIY electronics game, I know the barrier to entry for someone to pick up a soldering iron is high.  I guess the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Thanks for the recommendation.  The rabbit trail has been simplified.  The GMMK seems like a great way to tinker around.

The whole point of a hot swap board for a lot of people is to just use it as a test bed. I still think a tester should come first unless you're going to also track down some switch sample packs, but a hot swap board is the next logical step if you want to feel and hear switches in a real board once you've found some you like enough to order a bag of. Once you have a set of favorite switches you may as well desolder/solder to your heart's content.

In that Rantopad board, are you sure it was the switches going bad, or could it have been a poorly-done factory soldering job? I think the latter is more likely. Maybe you can just reflow every switch with some decent 60/40 solder and call it good if you wanted to pass it on to a friend.

[chungsteroonie]

Oh shoot. .. sorry for the late reply.  I need to fix my notifications.  The E-machines build runs as cool as any other air cooled case I've worked with.  Ryzen 3900X was well contained under full load but I have a 5800X in there now.  The GPU in photo is a Lightning Z so it never went above 65C not matter what you did to it so with two fans pulling outside air directly into the GPU, it all runs very cool.

The SSD is screwed into the side of the drive bay housing. 

I ended up building my first keyboard, and it was a blast.  I used one of the super cheap $15.00 plastic cases and used a 6.5" diameter silicone O-ring to gasket mount it after modding the case with a dremel to accept screw-in stabilizers.  So, it's a cheaper Bakeneko. . . .well, actually, Bakeneko is pretty darn cheap, but not available anymore so I had fun seeing what I could do "off the shelf" parts.   I used Gateron milky yellows because they are cheap, and seemed like a "straight down the middle" linear from which I can decide which direction to explore.  I'm not particularly bothered by the scratch after lubing.

I posted details about the build here:  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=113095.msg3054053#msg3054053

I wanted to solder. .. I wanted to use give QMK and VIA a try.  I wanted to mod something cheap and try to make some bottom of the barrel parts perform well.  All of the cool kids have these fancy gasket boards.

The fancy pants idea was to make relief cuts in the case to make room for the O-ring gasket to clear the screw in stabs. 



Because the standard 60% core PCB/plate assembly is completely stock and un-molested, I can make other keyboards for computers around the house and mix/match/experiment.

I really liked the feel of the Gateron yellows, so I got some Mauves to try.  Seemed like it is in the same ball-part, but sooooo much less stem wobble!  I wanted to use a KBDfans polycarbonate plate, but I think the structure on the bottom row is too weak for the O-ring style mount.  I'm squinting at freecad for the 1st time trying to edit a DWG file to have laser cut in 1.5mm Delrin with a stronger bottom edge.  I hear the Mauves really go well with this type of plate. . . and I'm not sure why nobody has a "normal" 60% polycarbonate or POM plate available.  At any rate, getting a custom plate laser cut is about the same price as most places sell an Aluminum plate for online if I get 5 of them.



I'm having a lot of fun and am really interested to hear what an O-ring gasket wood case sounds like soon.  But for now, I'm pretty blown away at how good this board feels and how absolutely fantastic it sounds with really live, poppy alphas and thucky space bar. . . just happy, pleasant sounds.